The reluctance to talk about it

[TGMarla]

As I have noted here and there many times, my wife and I have one of these "don't ask, don't tell" deals when it comes to my crossdressing. She doesn't ride me on the issue, and out of respect for her, I don't force the issue with her. I keep my crossdressing to mostly a private affair, and I try hard to keep it out of her sight. But this also means that I have to keep my girlie things carefully stowed away, rather than hanging nicely in a closet, and when I dress, I have to make sure that I'm back in male mode before she arrives home.

To her credit, what little she has said to me has meant a lot to me. For instance, she told me once that she understood very well why I did not disclose this to her before we married. She understood the fear I had that it would cause her to leave me, and she is moved by the thought that I would risk the ramifications of being labelled a liar, and all that goes with such disclosure once this cat slipped out of the bag, rather than lose an opportunity to spend my life with her.

So our relationship is very strong right now, even though she knows I'm a crossdresser. She has never seen me as Marla, but she has seen me en femme. I dressed completely once for Halloween, and it was her idea that I do so. At the time she did not know that I was an experienced crossdresser. She was amazed at that time that I did so well with my makeup, and I made some lame excuse to her that I'd seen her do her own makeup so often, that I simply emulated her. That is actually true to an extent. I did learn a lot from watching her. But it was practice that made me good at it.

Every once in a while, I'll slip and leave something out, and I'll get a snippy comment when she finds it. Like "So you have a bag full of high heels, I see", referring to a carry-on piece of luggage I use to store some of my shoes and sweaters. She doesn't deride me about it, though. It's simply a comment to me that she saw what I'd neglected to put away. Every once in a while I'll leave a piece of jewelry out, or she'll see lipstick on a glass. So she knows darn well that I crossdress, but still we speak very little of it. And even when the opportunity comes up, like when crossdressing or transexualism pops up on television, our conversations last only a little longer than a few sentences. I've told her that any time she wishes to discuss it with me, I promise to be open and truthful with her. But it never happens.

I got to thinking, why is it that we have such reluctance to talk about this? What would happen if she came home unexpectedly to find me looking like my avatar? I came up with two points to consider:

1) I don't want her to see me as anything other (I'm avoiding using the word "less") than her man. I am her husband, and I'm happy and honored to be that. Furthermore, if she truly doesn't want to talk about it, I am reluctant to force the issue with her, out of respect for her feelings.

2) She doesn't want to be presented with anything that changes her view of me in her eyes as anything other than the man she married. (This is, of course, just a guess)

She is very traditional when it comes to relationships. She is very heterosexual, and she married a man. She's all woman, and she wants her relationship to be between a woman and a man. She is very tolerant of gay couples, and is sympathetic to transgener/transexual issues; she just doesn't want any of that to be an element in her own relationship.

I may be way off-base in this assessment. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks of this, and what you all think about this when it comes to your own relationships. I know that many of you have more open relationships with your SOs when it comes to your crossdressing, but for those of you who don't, what are your thoughts on it?

[Joanna41]

Sounds to me like you have nailed it. You are doing what your relationship with your wife can handle. Sounds like if you push the issue the results would be devastating. I would just keep doing what you are doing but get better at putting that stuff away!

Joanna

[BRANDYJ]

Hi Marla, I've seen you here often and have read many of your posts including the DADT situation you and your wife share. In reading your post, I first thought of several other factors that may keep you both from talking about it. First, I wonder how well the two of you can communicate on other important matters in everyday life. I wonder how open each of you are about your feelings on many sensitive issues. It makes me think that either or both of you are afraid to upset each other with the truth about how each feels about crossdressing. No need to tell us, but I also wonder about your sex life with her. I mean, is it playful and loving perhaps with a little fantasy thrown in to keep the excitement alive in that department. or are you both afraid to tell each other your fantasies or what you both like sexually. I can be way off base, but I sense a fear to open up to each other. We all have heard it a thousand times, communication is the key in any relationship.
You don't want her to see you as anything but a man. Believe me, I struggled with that myself from time to time. With my very accepting and understanding SO that really enjoys my fem side, I stilll can't help but feel that way at times too. I want to be her man and would hate to think she sees me as anything less then what she wants in a man. But I think in 2 past relationships I worried about it needlessly and way to much since both had no [problems with my dressing. But I kept it well in check...more then I had to, just to maintain that masculine image that I felt they wanted but never expressed I was anything less then a man to them. My dressing was never a problem to them. Not a problem with my SO today. But I now can communicate more openly then I ever felt in past relationships. She is the same way and can tell me anything. We have no secrets what so ever. So I suggest looking at your over-all ability to openly and honestly communicate with her.
Your second point can be way off base as mine was once. You might say my second guessing her was a stumbling block in my past marriages. (2) So now I don't second guess...I ask, point blank. My two ex-wives where as you say, very heterosexual and traditional too. But still we were able to openly communicate.
You ask what would happen if she came home to find you looking like your avatar. I think that would be a big mistake. Before she sees you as your avatar, she has to express a desire to see you. Even though she knows, this would be like a coming out to her. I have read where others sprung it on their wives by dressing and letting them find out that way. In most cases it is a BIG mistake to spring it on a loved one this way. Don't do it!

I think a good starting point would be for you to either show her your thoughts above, (1 and 2) and let her express how she really feels. Not how you assume she feels. I bet the both of you are waiting for the other to open up about it and stop the don't ask, don't tell routinee you both have grown comfortable with. IF mutual love and respect is there, I sense she would be open to you being less secretive. I bet in some ways she feels left out of a part of your You. You both seem to be afraid to rock the boat and both second guessing the other for a lack of open and honest communication. I hope my thoughts have given you some more things to thionk about.

I wish you lots of luck and love.

[TGMarla]

Brandy, in response to some of your inquiries, in all areas other than crossdressing, we have a very open and communicative relationship. Our sex life is alive and well. And I'm not suggesting that I'd purposely wait for her to come home while I was dressed. I'm wondering what would happen should she come home before I expected her, to find me dressed. I'm just trying to clarify.

Thank you for taking the time to say so much on this subject.

[Presh GG]

Hi Marla,
Do you know how much she knows about trans gender people?

I don't want to say anything more without that knowledge.
and i'm sorry, I should remember how long you have been married and how long she has "known".

Presh GG

[Alice B]

My wife and I also started out with the "don't ask-don't tell" approach, although we did have a series of talks at the start. She was understanding and accepting, but wanted NO PART of it. Over the past two years her acceptance has grown considerably, as she became accustomed to my desire to dress. I can now dress at home on occasion with her in the same room. I can go out when I want, as long as nothing else is scheduled. I was able to go to DLV last year and will do so again this coming year. At times I will wear some light make up at home while not dressed. It is a gradual processwith a key ingrediant being not to push it in her face. Sure, at times I step over the line and when I do so she quickly puts me in place. As with you, our relationship is very strong and being honest with her and myself is one of the best things all of us can do.

[kimdl93]

I'm in a more open relationship, but I think each couple has to be at their own level of comfort. Many people on this site maintain a separation between their dressing and thier marriage...out of respect for their SO or their own preference. I think its great as long as it works for you.

As for the reluctance to talk about it, the subject of cross dressing still carries such baggage that couples just don't feel comfortable talking about it, even in private, and even when its an open secret or DADT arrangement. Getting around that obstacle is pretty hard. I'm lucky in that respect because my wife, for as long as I've known her, has been very understanding and especially good at bringing up and dealing with issues that impact on our relationship. Not everyone can deal with things so openly.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Marla,

I do appreciate how much you are bending to consider her feeling. At least there will be no suprises for her.

My finacee has known since our first date. No surprises! She has done my hair and been out with me. She has taken pictures some times when she asks if I would like her to. She wears my clothes sometimes and had will offer things for me on special times. I try to tell her at times she is welcome to go out with me, and I have nothing to hide.

I would love to have her with me all the time. But I am not going to loss her to who I am.

She says she wants to understand. But why should she..I done understand it.

When will we get married? When hell freezed probably. She was single for along time after her divorce. She likes her personal times, so she can have them. I was married for 38 years and had no personal time. Why fix what isn't broke?

Em

[DonnaT]

Marla, your wife not only doesn't want to talk about, but she doesn't even want to see or or even think about it. Some people are just set in their ways and don't want anyone to try and convince them otherwise. With that in mind, she's definitely not going to want to talk about it.

I'm sure you'd love to talk about it, to get some kind of acceptance besides the little tolerance she now shows. But clearly you can't because you love her too much to upset her or to put your marriage in jeopardy.

I love my wife just as much, but have taken a different tact. This did in fact put my marriage in jeopardy a few times over the years, but we were forced to talk and come to an understanding, out of mutual love and respect for each of our needs.

[Leslie Langford]

Hi Marla,

Your situation very much mirrors mine, and the marital dynamic and comfort level with respect to my crossdressing as well as my wife's acceptance (reluctant tolerance?) of it within the framework of our marriage is very much like the one you describe in your case.

Perhaps one way in which we may differ a bit, however, is in the manner in which I have come to fully accept my transgenderism, am now totally comfortable with it, and am no longer reluctant to talk to my wife about it.

What has made a huge difference for me was having read all of the stories from others here on this Forum and finally realizing that as crossdressers go, I am pretty "normal". I now refuse to see myself as some sort of deviant the way my wife would try to make me feel in the past as way to "control" me and my crossdressing activities within the confines of our own DADT arrangement. That, as well as having been out and about en femme over the last 3 years and realizing that not only does no one else give a d%mn - if anything, the people that I have encountered (SA's, make up artists, manicurists, restaurant servers etc.) have been universally respectful, accommodating, and helpful. They have always treated me the same way as they would any other GG even though I am sure that I have been "read" on more than one occasion. They seem to be universally admiring and curious, and not at all disdainful or mocking as my wife would have had me believe in the past to erode my self-confidence and discourage me from going out in public as "Leslie". It was only once I finally had the courage to actually do it and see for myself just how that would play out that I was able to make this breakthrough, and the rest, as they say, is history.

This widespread and unexpected public acceptance eventually caused me to greatly resent our existing DADT arrangement, since I had finally come to see that my wife's aversion to my crossdressing was largely her own issue and the result of some of her personal hang-ups (strong religious upbringing, in part), rather than a universal revulsion against crossdressing by the general public. I was also getting increasingly frustrated by seeing so many television shows lately (Tyra Banks, Oprah, Dateline, 20/20, Chaz Bono's recent "coming out" etc.), as well as numerous newspaper and magazine articles dealing with the topic of transgenderism. It almost seems that being TG is the new "gay" these days, given the sudden surge of interest in this topic - and particularly with regard to increasingly younger and younger people being diagnosed with GID and the support networks being built for them nowadays. This is a far cry from what we older CDer's experienced in our own youths, and why we and our SO's are still haunted by this aura of shame which, in today's world, makes absolutely no sense anymore.

Having said that, I don't want to minimize my own responsibility in creating this elephant in the room with regard to my marriage because like so many others here, I did not reveal my crossdressing to my wife when we first got married. I, too, thought that marriage would "cure" me once and for all (NOT!), so in some ways she bought a pig in a poke when we exchanged the "I do's". But I also think that over the years, I did conclusively prove to her that I was still the man she she married those many years ago in all other respects, and who she originally saw as a soul-mate for life. In fact, we just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary earlier this month, so if that doesn't signify commitment to our marriage, I don't know what does...

I wouldn't say that I have become more militant now regarding my "right" to crossdress and I still respect my wife's DADT rules, but I no longer ask "permission" to pursue my need to crossdress in the way that works best for me as long as it doesn't impact her directly. And while she may be less-than-delighted by some of the things I now do openly including going out in public as "Leslie", she no longer resists me. She is also aware that I have a GG make up artist whom I go to from time to time for a professional makeover, that I get my nails done periodically when en femme, and she also knows that I have an extensive female wardrobe and where I keep it - even though she would likely rather poke out her eyes with an ice pick rather than encounter any evidence of it it face-to-face.

I have always been as discrete as possible about my crossdressing, have never brought it into our bedroom, and have never asked her to participate in any of my CD activities. And except for being fully shaved 24/7 which she has now grudgingly come to accept, I am 100% masculine in the traditional sense when in male mode i.e. short hair, no pierced ears, no long nails, eyebrows only lightly plucked and shaped etc. That said, I no longer flinch from discussions around my crossdressing when she initiates them and now answer her questions directly - and the consequences be d%mned - whereas I might have been more circumspect in the past . I also use the words "crossdresser", gender dysphoria, and "transgender" etc. openly in our discussions these days, and almost in an "in your face" manner, now that I have finally found my cojones - much in the same way that black people have reclaimed the "n" word and made it their own, or as gay and lesbian individuals have done with the "f" and "d" words. The bottom line is that this is who I am, and at age 63, I've paid my dues and refuse to suppress this side of me any longer.

I guess my new approach must be working, as we have far fewer arguments about my crossdressing now than we ever had in the past. Maybe my new-found confidence is rubbing off on my wife as well, maybe I have finally managed to wear her down after all these years (although that really wasn't my intent), or maybe she simply realizes now that my crossdressing will never go away, that the world has changed more than she has in the way it views gender diversity, and that for most people nowadays (especially the younger generation), crossdressing is no longer a big deal. If anything, it simply elicits a "whatever" from them, if not outright admiration for the fact that we have the courage to be who we really are inside and are not afraid/ashamed to acknowledge it publicly.

All in all, I would say that I am in a good place now, and that our current situation concerning my crossdressing seems to be sustainable for us. It no longer resembles the former Cold War or the interminable Israeli-Palestinian stand-off. We both realize now that agreeing to disagree is probably the best compromise since life is too short to deal with all of that self-imposed stress as was the case in the past. No point ending up like the guy who had the inscription "He Had the Right of Way" chiseled on his tombstone...

[Lynn Marie]

From what I've experienced, and seen, and read on this forum, wives and SO's react to our coming out to them in three ways. They either reject us out of hand, tolerate us much like Marla's wife, or in the rare instances embrace our CDing and enjoy the new found adventures.

My silly theory on this is that so many of the women that we naturally want to marry have the "good wife and mother" image in their minds from childhood and it is just about impossible for them to break out of that mold. Down deep they feel that the appreciation of sexy lingerie, stockings and heels, alluring makeup and hair along with a wardrobe that accentuates their femininity are the trademarks of the town tramp rather than the kid's mother!

Women may wear that stuff to catch their man, but pretty soon it is all gone and "comfortable shoes" and clothes become the norm. Then they thicken up a little as they age and their self-confidence goes right down the drain. Then you and I show up with the peculiar ability to actually look nearly as hot as they did in their prime! My feeling is that this just further makes them feel bad about themselves not only in that the are older, but also that your dream girl is now more yourself in drag than her!

She's not losing you to a younger, sexier woman; she's losing you to a charicature of yourself who's dressed in the lingerie of her youth that was used as bait to catch a cool stud like yourself! Confusing, huh?

[Leslie Langford]

I think there's a lot of truth in what you have said, Lynn Marie, but I also think that it works both ways. Is it not equally true that many of us crossdressers dress the way we do to emulate some kind of fantasy woman that we wish our wives or girlfriends would resemble (and maybe once did)?

Most "normal" men either go to strip clubs or watch porn for the same purpose. We crossdressers are "blessed" (cursed?) with the ability to actually become that fantasy woman - or at least in our own minds - without the need for the proverbial "middle man" (or should that be "middle woman")? :eek::heehee::doh:

[Anne2345]

Perhaps your wife's reluctance to talk about your crossdressing stems more from a lack of education and understanding on her, rather than the reasons you put forth. It's quite difficult to have a meaningful discussion on any subject matter when the other party lacks understanding, or a substantive base of facts and knowledge from which to draw upon during a conversation. And from her perspective, if she does indeed suffer from such a lack of education, and does not have a meaningful knowledge base upon which to base a discussion, perhaps it is too uncomfortable and daunting of a task for her.

I told my wife before we married. Before I told her, however, I had researched the issues thoroughly, obtained educational resources for her to read and consider to supplement our discussions. This way, she did not have to take just my word from it, and she learned some things she did not previously know, as a result. It made it easier for both of us.

Of course, given the difficulty you are facing actually discussing crossdressing with her, perhaps you should try something a little more neutral, and not you to begin with. Such as presenting her with some educational materials first, so that she may grow to the point where discussion is meaningful and informed.

As fantastic as my wife is, and she is wonderful, I am not completely comfortable dressing around her. Like you, I know she married a man, and not a woman. Although she is ok with it, I know in the back of my mind that it is just not for her, to view me in such a way. I completely respect this, and honor her. She does however, by me gifts, help me shop, makes loving/joking comments about me being her "wife," etc. She enjoys doing such things. But actually participating within the actual act of my dressing, she is tolerant and accepting, but it is just not her cup of tea. Regardless, it works out quite well, given the alternative could be devastating, and an unteneble position.

But it all started with education and discussion. It sounds like you have half of the battle won - she knows you are an active crossdresser, and she "allows" you to do your thing. Whether she will eventually accept more than this, who knows? I certainly do not. But educated my wife, who was otherwise quite clueless about it all, was the best thing I did (other than actually telling her I am crossdresser, that is). Hope this helps!

[kristinacd55]

Well Marla,
I think it's for each couple to decide what boundaries they set up for the crossdressing. In my case, "Chloe" has been a lot more accepting than your wife. I have all, or most of my clothes out in closets and drawers and she's ok with me dressing at home which I appreciate. Our daughters know and also my sister in law. She's reluctant to go out with me dressed, we were invited to a couples dinner at a nice restaurant but we declined for this month. I very much appreciate her trying to come to grips with this, even though she just found out 5 yrs ago.
As for your clarification of if your wife came home and found you dressed? She'd flip, from what you've said before. I think it's something you need to discuss with her as I see that Marla needs some getting out of the closet a bit further?

[mercterr]

Your relationship sounds exactly like mine with my wife. Don't ask, don't tell. She knows about it but doesn't want to know about it or see it. It's awkward, but for now it makes the marriage work. This arrangement may serve us well into the future or it may drive us apart. She may become more accepting or she may continue to hope it goes away if she doesn't acknowledge it. She has only known for three months so it's too early to make such a choice. Right now if my wife came home and found me dressed it would be a very bad day in our house. Lynn Marie, interesting point of view. I hadn't thought of it that way before. My wife is not frumpy, but I am one of those guys you wouldn't see this coming, and it surprised the heck out of her that there was more than one feminine creature in the house .

[suchacutie]

I have a couple thoughts, but maybe my situation doesn't allow me to see your wife's perspective clearly.

I'm on the other end of the scale. The first time I ever dressed was for my wife and some of the clothes were hers, and then she initiated that we HAD to buy me a dress. My wife is also completely heterosexual and wants her marriage to be "with her man". On the other hand, she is fascinated that Tina exists as a part of me and is as curious as I am about who she is. There is nothing concerning Tina that isn't discussed between the two of us. She has told me that she is quite taken with the fact that I would share this very personal part of me, especially considering how vulnerable a MTF is in many parts of our society. She knows every time I dress, and that's mostly because she and Tina are spending a part of the day together. She and Tina are girlfriends, she and I are husband and wife.

With that preamble, I doubt that you wife will ever walk in on your femme self. From what you are saying, I think she is as concerned about that happening as you might be. I would guess that if she were ever to arrive unexpectedly, she would try to contact you to let you know (has that ever happened?).

My take on trying to get the conversation more into the open might run along the idea of knowing who the femme side of you is. My wife is fascinated by the differences between my gendered selves and maybe raising your wife's curiosity about the nature of your femme self (without the vision) is a place to start. Also, my wife and I have had any number of conversations about what it is like to grow up as a girl: expectiations, fears, societal typcasting, parental typecasting, frustrations. Then the compare/contrast of similar situations growing up in each gender can start to build an amazing closeness. All this can be done in drab! After all, your femme self is a part of you, and I can't believe that somewhere in her being she doesn't wonder how that part of you works.

[Eryn]

Is it possible that you don't discuss it with her because you sense that she doesn't want to talk about it while she doesn't discuss it with you because she senses that you don't want to talk about it. Can you both trust your senses in this case?

Look, you're married, have a strong relationship and you both care about each other's happiness. Sit down with her at an appropriate time and say "Dear, there is something bothering me and I'd like to talk to you about it." Then do so. If it really does bother her then you can go back to the DADT approach that has been working for you. I have a feeling, though, that she might want to talk about it more deeply than you think. If you give her the opportunity she might well open up and be more receptive.

[Helen 2]

My spouse of 25+ years is also one of the subscribers to that 'don't ask, don't' philosophy. She's known about Helen since we were dating, knows the story about how I became a CD, saw several pictures of me dressed and saw Helen once, which prompted a 'you look better than I thought you would look' and 'your legs are better than mine' and a 'I can't believe you can walk in heels like that' because I can walk in 4.5 inchers better than she can. Heeehee!

We've talked about it several times in those 25 years and she is definitely not interested in knowing more about Helen nor in spending more time with me. She travels a bit and thus allows me the opportunity to be myself, knows I dress and go out and sometimes asks me if I am planning a day out, but nothing beyond that. By arrangement, I do not dress in her presence but to underdress occassionally.

Do I wish she would be more accepting? Sure! Am I okay with our arrangement? It's served us well for 25+ years, so I guess I can consider myself less fortunate than some and more fortunate than many.

[JamieG]

After I came out to my wife, we had a don't-ask-don't-tell policy. Now we've moved to a "if you ask, then I'll tell, and everyone once in a while I'll give you a hint" policy. From the DADT perspective, I say do your best to keep it out of your wife's face, but don't get to nervous about being surprised. If she comes home early and catches you, apologize and say you weren't expecting her. That once happened with us.

One other piece of advice is you do need to periodically talk about things, maybe at least once a year. Perhaps it could go something like this: "I know you're uncomfortable with this topic, but I want to know how you currently feel about our arrangement regarding my crossdressing. Is there anything that worries you? Do you have any questions for me?"

[Stefia S]

I got to thinking, why is it that we have such reluctance to talk about this? What would happen if she came home unexpectedly to find me looking like my avatar? I came up with two points to consider:

1) I don't want her to see me as anything other (I'm avoiding using the word "less") than her man. I am her husband, and I'm happy and honored to be that. Furthermore, if she truly doesn't want to talk about it, I am reluctant to force the issue with her, out of respect for her feelings.

2) She doesn't want to be presented with anything that changes her view of me in her eyes as anything other than the man she married. (This is, of course, just a guess)

She is very traditional when it comes to relationships. She is very heterosexual, and she married a man. She's all woman, and she wants her relationship to be between a woman and a man. She is very tolerant of gay couples, and is sympathetic to transgener/transexual issues; she just doesn't want any of that to be an element in her own relationship.

I may be way off-base in this assessment. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks of this, and what you all think about this when it comes to your own relationships. I know that many of you have more open relationships with your SOs when it comes to your crossdressing, but for those of you who don't, what are your thoughts on it?

I think you're on to something! The second insight you shared is what my wife gave as a reason for requesting me to reveal my femme self to her, slowly, at her pace. And too, my wife has similar attributes to those you cited your wife has, though to a lesser degree.

[ReineD]

I have to admit that I'm stumped. I don't know why a wife wouldn't want to talk about this, since if it were me, I wouldn't stop talking until I had it all figured out. :p

I do understand why a wife might not want to participate. Sometimes people think they already have it all figured out, and they just don't approve. So, if a wife feels it is just a weird, kinky, solo type "guy" thing (not unlike a husband who keeps a stack of Playboy or Hustler mags in the basement), she might be happier turning a blind eye to it than being actively involved. Frankly, if I had been married a few decades and I thought the reason my husband wanted to dress up once in awhile was for kicks, I'd be disappointed (preferring that he didn't get his "kicks" that way). But, in order to feel better about it all, I'd likely try to convince myself that it was harmless (cognitive dissonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)) and I'd do my best to ignore it all. With this type of attitude though, I'd not be "happy" if I saw evidence of it. And if I saw evidence that he needed a suitcase full of shoes in order to get his kicks, I'd be even less happy, because even though I'd have convinced myself there was no harm done, in the back of my mind I'd worry where it was all headed and if it was going to get worse. It would be like constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I've typed this in order to try to get into the role of a disapproving wife and why she might disapprove, and the best reason I can come up with is that she doesn't understand the CDing. At all.

I really don't think it has anything to do with your wife believing that you are a "lesser" male. I rather think this is your own projection.

[Allsteamedup]

Dear Marla,
I am now wondering how you put together that wonderful thread, helping to come out to a partner. I'd alaways assumed that you were in a supportive cd relationship.

Now I think we are of an age! so let me address the occassional exchanges you have with your wife. You do not make these sound angry nor spiteful. You have the capacity to turn these into conversations! There is no point in pretending something has been left out accidentally. 'Do you think my tastes are changing? Does that colour suit me? Styles are so different this year...'
If your wife is prepared to chitchat with you like this, and it would appear she sometimes broaches these subjects, she is offering you a chance for exchanges of thought.

Now your problem (and it is your problem) seems to be that you want some thorough discussion of where you are at with your cding. Now this would be intimidating for a lot of women.
The old chestnut about her thinking of you as a lesser man......well, that's your judgement, too.

She is offering you chances, and you seem to be turning them down because they don't fit your preconceived notion of how you would like to extend her knowledge.
So take your head from beneath your underskirts!! and let the lady pass her comments, and add a sentence or two, as appropriate.
I think the advice was something like 'baby steps'.......

[erickka]

Boy oh boy Marla. You are on the exact same astral plane as I am with my wife. The only difference is that if I slip and leave something out, she gets a tad more irritated than a snide remark.

[Fundy]

Hi Marla,

I will reply to your thread speaking as a GG spouse who engaged in quite a lot of DADT behaviour and is quite happy to be moving past it. Obviously, this is only my experience, but perhaps it relates in some way to how your wife might be feeling.

My SO and I have gone through periods, sometime short other times really long, of DADT in the 5 or so years that I have known about his cding. I have no intellectual issue with cding and I believe strongly in the rights of all to express who they are (I think this might be close to how you describe your wife). So, when I have negative reactions or emotions related to my husband cding I get very confused and frustrated and ashamed of myself. In many ways DADT has been a way for me to avoid resolving these and confronting the profound disappointment I have felt in myself rather than a way to avoid seeing who my husband really is.

For us, the DADT periods eventually become toxic. I think they inadvertently reinforce my SO's feelings of guilt or shame or need to hide and that also makes me feel poorly deep deep down inside. Anyway, I think we are finally seeing this pattern and so are really trying to not go too long without a conversation, even if I am not always around when he dresses (although I am more and more).

The other thing that adds to our need to talk about it is that I feel like all other marital issues get a bit convoluted. Take for example finances. If I have a negative reaction to a purchase of tights or makeup or skirts or what have you, it is hard for me to figure out if I am reacting to the purchasing (the safer option - it's about the money!) or what is being purchased (harder because then I have to confront my sometimes negative feelings that I am not proud of)...so how would I feel it the purchased item had been a set of socket wrenches and why and am I being honest with myself and my SO?

In my experience, it has helped to talk and not do the DADT...but it seems that it got hard before the getting better started. AND I can't say we won't go back to DADT, except that I do prefer this - we'll call it AT (ask and tell) - because even if on some surface level I was more comfortable before, I am much happier now and I know my husband is too.

Hope this helps in some way - I wish you and your wife the very best.

[Chickhe]

I'm pretty much in the same boat with my wife as far as CDing goes. I would not say in general we communicate all that well, I am trying, but she is not improving...really frustrating and it prevents us from ever getting to the point about Cding for example. Anyways, for the worry about her seeing you. I may be light years ahead of where my wife is at, (and it may bite me or help, not sure) because I totally accept myself, I don't care who sees me, beyond protecting my kid/family and halloween Cding is a yearly event for me. She has never seen me trying to 'pass' or dressing up and I would be a little apprehensive, but if caught I would face her and ask her 'how do I look'? I would not describe myself a CDer or use another term...It would be just about the clothes and how I look...no lifestyle issue. This would work for me now because I am past most of the emotional issues and CDing is more like a facination for me. One day, I may just dress up for fun when she is home and how she reacts... if its negative then I'm just preparing for next halloween...positive, then I'll ask, 'how do I look?...I think I need your help, would you go shopping with me?...can you help me look normal, I'm really curious if I could pass... and I think it would be fun to go out dressed, but only if its fun for you too! ...or next halloween, I might just pull out all the stops because I managed to pass for the most part last year, she had fun with it and if I go all out, she might have so much fun again that she wants me to do it more often with her.

[docrobbysherry]

Statistically, 60%+ of marriages fail. As did mine. Few have ANYTHING to do with CDing! Nor did mine!:sad:

However, two things r common in long marriages. One partner tends to move on, change, try new things MORE than the other.:straightface:

The other is that they develop odd co-dependent habits! These require that each keep doing things AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE, according to the unspoken code the 2 have developed over the many years!:eek:

U mite check to see if either of these mite apply to u and your SO?

[TGMarla]

I guess I should respond to some of this before it gets too hard to do.....


Over the past two years her acceptance has grown considerably, as she became accustomed to my desire to dress. I can now dress at home on occasion with her in the same room. .... I was able to go to DLV last year and will do so again this coming year.
I'm not sure I want to dress around her or not. I'm a long way away from that, and it may never happen. I would like to attend the SCC once or twice, though, and I'd like her blessing to do so.


She says she wants to understand. But why should she..I don't understand it.

Good point. Without any guidance from me, she did do some investigation into crossdressing, and I guess she realizes that it's kinda normal in a way. But I don't think she understands it. In fact, she's said so. Like you, Em, I really don't completely get it either.


I refuse to see myself as some sort of deviant in the way my wife would try to make me feel in the past as way to "control" me and my crossdressing activities within the confines of our own particular DADT arrangement.
She doesn't try to control me at all, though. We just act, for the most part, like the crossdressing doesn't exist. I applaud that you have managed to get to a point where you can go out and do things en femme without it causing a stir between you two.


She's not losing you to a younger, sexier woman; she's losing you to a charicature of yourself who's dressed in the lingerie of her youth that was used as bait to catch a cool stud like yourself! Confusing, huh?
She's not losing me, though. Not at all. And she's never seen me dressed. Much of what you say may be true in many situations, but not mine, I think. And although she has aged and "thickened", as you said, she's certainly not viewing me as a crossdresser with any sort of jealousy.


Perhaps your wife's reluctance to talk about your crossdressing stems more from a lack of education and understanding on her, rather than the reasons you put forth. It's quite difficult to have a meaningful discussion on any subject matter when the other party lacks understanding, or a substantive base of facts and knowledge from which to draw upon during a conversation. And from her perspective, if she does indeed suffer from such a lack of education, and does not have a meaningful knowledge base upon which to base a discussion, perhaps it is too uncomfortable and daunting of a task for her.
You may be exactly right on this, Anne. But she's not interested in reading material on this subject. And I'm not about to leave a copy of "My Husband Betty" on the bed for her to read. But I'd like to somehow get her more educated on the subject. I think that can only come from meaningful discussion. I've assured her that she'll never lose me to a sex change, or anything like that. But I'm sure that on some level, the crossdressing is a threat to her, and I'd like her to come to a true understanding within herself that she has nothing to fear from it.


As for your clarification of if your wife came home and found you dressed? She'd flip, from what you've said before. I think it's something you need to discuss with her as I see that Marla needs some getting out of the closet a bit further?
Indeed! Marla would love to venture a little further out of that closet. And I would like to let her know that should she come home to find me dressed, that I'd appreciate it if she'd just let me go change without issue rather than let the $hit hit the fan. And I'd rather talk about it calmly and maturely than scream about it and make it into something it's not.


I doubt that you wife will ever walk in on your femme self. From what you are saying, I think she is as concerned about that happening as you might be. I would guess that if she were ever to arrive unexpectedly, she would try to contact you to let you know (has that ever happened?).
Once in a while, I'll get a call from her telling me that she's on her way home. But more recently, there have been a couple of occasions where she has come home earlier than expected, and I was not crossdressed at the time. I remember being quite relieved by that. As for getting her interested in my more feminine side, I don't think she wants to know the feminine me.


Is it possible that you don't discuss it with her because you sense that she doesn't want to talk about it while she doesn't discuss it with you because she senses that you don't want to talk about it. Can you both trust your senses in this case?
You might be spot on here, Eryn. As for sitting down with her and actually initiating the conversation, I may well do that one day. Easier said than done, I guess. Maybe I'm just a big chicken.


Do I wish she would be more accepting? Sure! Am I okay with our arrangement? It's served us well for 25+ years, so I guess I can consider myself less fortunate than some and more fortunate than many.
I am also much more fortunate than many, Helen. Our arrangement does serve us well at present, which might lend itself to why I don't press the issue with her.


One other piece of advice is you do need to periodically talk about things, maybe at least once a year. Perhaps it could go something like this: "I know you're uncomfortable with this topic, but I want to know how you currently feel about our arrangement regarding my crossdressing. Is there anything that worries you? Do you have any questions for me?"
We do broach the subject once in a while, mostly when it comes up on television. But they are generally pitifully short conversations. She doesn't get angry or distant with me over it. It just seems like it's something she doesn't wish to discuss, and she moves on to something else like it never happened.


I have to admit that I'm stumped. I don't know why a wife wouldn't want to talk about this, since if it were me, I wouldn't stop talking until I had it all figured out. :p

I do understand why a wife might not want to participate. Sometimes people think they already have it all figured out, and they just don't approve. So, if a wife feels it is just a weird, kinky, solo type "guy" thing (not unlike a husband who keeps a stack of Playboy or Hustler mags in the basement), she might be happier turning a blind eye to it than being actively involved.
You're by far the exception rather than the rule, Reine. You're a crossdresser's dream: an accepting spouse. You approach this whole thing from a unique viewpoint, and it's hard for you to understand non-acceptance.

But, in order to feel better about it all, I'd likely try to convince myself that it was harmless (cognitive dissonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)) and I'd do my best to ignore it all. With this type of attitude though, I'd not be "happy" if I saw evidence of it. And if I saw evidence that he needed a suitcase full of shoes in order to get his kicks, I'd be even less happy, because even though I'd have convinced myself there was no harm done, in the back of my mind I'd worry where it was all headed and if it was going to get worse. It would be like constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop.
On the other hand, I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one.


I am now wondering how you put together that wonderful thread, helping to come out to a partner.
Umm....that was MarlaGG, Rachel Morley's wife, who wrote that. She's a wonderful woman, who does not much participate in this forum any more. I really miss her. Rachel is a very lucky lady to have her. She's a treasure.

And to all of you who have responded with your vignettes of advice and help, I thank you profoundly. I actually do employ some of these tactics, but overall, she still seems to want to keep it all under the rug. One day, all of this will come more out in the open. One thing I know I have learned from this forum is that communication is the key to all understanding and support. But it needs to be a two-way street.