The Kate rule in practice

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So today i opened up a commercial bank account I hope to use to start a business.

I'm sitting there doing docs, and the guy asks my social security #..i tell him...i could see the look on his face...i realized he was live, online, getting records..and so he says..

"umm...did you live xx address?"... yes
"did you also have an address at xx?" yes..
"did you work for such and such company?"..yes

"Hmmmm..." he paused
i sat there, and every fiber in me wanted to tell him what was going on!..i actually felt compelled...i felt proud...but i literally thought of kate...and i agree with her...DONT SAY A THING UNTIL YOU HAVE TO>....so i just sat there...mute

After a couple seconds, he says" I think there is some kind of mistake in our database.... "...and again i thought...no mistake... just tell him....
but i heard Kate yelling...SHUT UP...so i clammed up..

and then he just said, "well something is wrong...give me a moment and let me fix this now so it doesn't happen again, and he deleted the old name.."

and we went on with the rest of the meeting...

[Katesback]

LOL. It truely is amayzing how hard it is for trans people to learn to keep thier mouth shut. Strangely people with missing arms, eyes, and other physical shortcommings learn to keep thier mouth shut but trans people find it hard.

The sad thing is every time a trans person spills the beans they only perpetuate thier being trans in the eyes of other people. I think its better to just be a woman!

[Melody Moore]

I also do the same thing now & completely ignore any compulsion I might ever feel to say anything
because I am well & truly over talking about it outside of a support group or forum where my feedback
could be beneficial towards helping others. If you are a female, then BE a female.. because then the
shadow of doubt always seems to fall on the other person and not you!

Whenever I meet new people now I completely resist any compulsion to ever say anything to them &
to my amazement it never becomes a question that is raised or any sort of an issue. But I do believe
that some people do feel the need to say things because ironically they are trying to justify themselves.
But the way to being accepted in society is not by trying to justify yourself - JUST BE YOURSELF!

I had incident happened about a month or so ago when I was out with my girlfriends when a young woman kept staring
totally fixated on me for about 15 minutes before I finally asked her is she was OK. She made some comment about my
hair, but it was easy to see that was just a very vain attempt to cover up the fact that she had some other serious issue
where she was questioning herself about me. Beyond asking her if she was OK I didn't say another word, but my girlfriends
did and they got the real truth out of her that she was questioning my true gender identity & they made sure this woman
knew that I was a female. But the whole time, I did not say anything and the shadow of doubt fell down on this woman.

Other people in the restaurant were upset by how this woman was towards me & they voiced their protest about her as
well. This woman & her male companion were forced to leave the restaurant purely because she was being her own self
doubt turned completely around to bite her squarely on the butt! And this has happened every time someone has tried
to 'out' me. So saying nothing is the best policy because it doesn't give anyone else any ammo to ever use against you.

Let me share with you about something else that has happened where Kate's rule has served me well....

I am a member of my local lesbian support group where the women there all know I am a transsexual female
because I am also involved in other aspects of the local LGBT community. But the question has never been
raised about my surgical status and noone has ever raised the question or had any issue where they doubted
that I was a real woman. I don't talk about my personal issues with them, however I have talked about some
transgender issues when I have been asked. Some of the girls identify as transgendered being 'gender queer'.

The general belief is in the lesbian community is that the girls don't want to have anything to do with anything
that is in anyway 'male'. So being accepted by a lesbian community is one of the greatest affirmations I have
ever had that tells me I have been truly accepted as a female. And it's kinda ironic because the leader of my
local lesbian group actually called me last night & we talked for a bit on the phone. During the conversation she
extended an invitation to me to also invite other male to female transsexuals from my local support group to an
event that we have coming up on the 27th of this month. She said that in her eyes and the rest of the group's
eyes that anyone who genuinely believed & identified as a straight, bisexual, bi-curious or lesbian woman was
invited to come along. But then she added that this meant anyone that didn't have a 'male testosterone driven
ego' & then we both laughed about that. But that conversation did made me feel like I was really being accepted
as the person who I believe also I am.

Finally... My belief is that males by nature are a lot more defensive being dominant personalities, so they do tend to
try and justify themselves more a lot more than the girls do. A male will often be the first to stand his ground & argue,
where a female is more likely to say nothing & just get up & walk away being the more submissive personality. But we
know there are exceptions to those rules, where the so called 'men' are really girls & the girls are the 'real men!'. :heehee:

So remember by feeding the compulsion to reveal yourself, you are being defensive in a male like way by reacting
to the need to justify yourself - so always consider the question "Is this typically how a female would react?" :daydreaming:

[CharleneT]

I agree with that rule ;) Have had similar circumstances too!

[Nicki S]

That is an awesome story and an excellent point to keep in the front of the brain.

I had a banking experience yesterday that was very nice also, if I may tell it here...I received a coupon in the mail from Wells Fargo for $50 to me to open a checking account. So I went there and was immediately seated in an office. I handed him my license (in male name) from my purse and he proceeded to open my new account. He then asked me my name. I regrettably told him my legal male name and he replied, no, what is the name that you go by. I responded Nicole. From that point on he called me Nicole. I was thrilled with his open minded thinking. I then asked if I could also get my debit card with Nicole on it. He said that he don't see any reason why not. So I soon will have a debit card that will have my new name on it. Not sure if the legal ramifications, but oh well.

[Katesback]

Perhaps it might be a good idea to get your name legally changed. It saves a lot of explaining.




That is an awesome story and an excellent point to keep in the front of the brain.

I had a banking experience yesterday that was very nice also, if I may tell it here...I received a coupon in the mail from Wells Fargo for $50 to me to open a checking account. So I went there and was immediately seated in an office. I handed him my license (in male name) from my purse and he proceeded to open my new account. He then asked me my name. I regrettably told him my legal male name and he replied, no, what is the name that you go by. I responded Nicole. From that point on he called me Nicole. I was thrilled with his open minded thinking. I then asked if I could also get my debit card with Nicole on it. He said that he don't see any reason why not. So I soon will have a debit card that will have my new name on it. Not sure if the legal ramifications, but oh well.

[Badtranny]

Oh goody, I get to disagree with two of my friends.

I realize that being only a year into my transition makes me the baby of the bunch and I'm also fully aware that I may change my mind after being in the trenches a little longer but right now I am not ashamed of being a TS woman. I don't care if people know and I don't see any advantage to "keeping my mouth shut". In fact I rather enjoy the special status that being trans confers on me.

"Kate's Rule"? spare me. She is hardly a role model to me.

In regard to "acting like a man" I have never been accused of being aggressive or even masculine, and keeping my mouth shut has never been my thing. Ever. I can't be silenced only censored, and to be silenced by my own shame? Never again.

I mean no disrespect to my stealth sisters, that is your choice and its wonderful.
My choice is to be out and proud for those that can't be.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i have to say kate, i admit i never thought you would come into my mind in the middle of doing business!!
so i was being a teeny bit tongue in cheek,

in any case, kate's rule to me is not GO STEALTH...it's just don't say anything unless you HAVE TO...

or maybe more important to me UNTIL ITS IN MY BEST INTERESTS!!!!!!!..

to me melissa, i have literally zero percent chance of being stealth...i love the idea that i can blend in so well that people don't even read me when my old name and ss# show up...but i have a past and it's a pretty big footprint...even my last name is distinctive and long....i chose to make my name similar to the old one too...

in my SPECIFIC situation..i am getting involved w/business partners...signing up, investing, training, and hopefully impressing people as i go forward...i am doing this from the house i lived in as male , my kids are here, going to the same schools..etc...
so at some point, someone is gonna figure out what i did....the world is small...I believe that it's in my best interests to simply not say anything about it until i have to, and in that way, i am maximizing my chance to be well accepted as a businessperson...

so no disrespect at all .... btw...you previously talked about how if you don't care how people treat you, then why transition...are you saying that you are excited and happy about the prospect of being the "tranny" in the room wherever you go...i agree its fun sometimes to feel special and unique..i like that feeling too, but not all the time..

i think it's quite noble and courageous to take your view...and i wonder if what you are saying is that in your mind, its in your best interests to be right up in the front row right away..

i actually think i have a better chance of being a proud and out Ts person by integrating first and dealing with all the bs later...

[Frances]

I realize that being only a year into my I mean no disrespect to my stealth sisters, that is your choice and its wonderful.
My choice is to be out and proud for those that can't be.

The problem is once you tell everyone that you are trans, you cannot undo it. You can always decide to come out post-transition, but the majority do not wish to do so once there. I completetly understand taking pride in something that was considered shameful if only to reclaim dignity, but it is only a question of months before a trans woman can blend in and not have to say anything anymore. There is an automatic loss of cis-privileges once you have told someone you are trans. My gut feeling is that people announce their transness out of fear of having said transness put in their faces as a weapon. So it becomes a matter of "you will not be able to hurt me with this because I will already have told you." Now, it may not be your situation at all, but it is for most of the "out" trans women that I know.

[Nicki S]

Perhaps it might be a good idea to get your name legally changed. It saves a lot of explaining.Oh I so agree with you, and I have full plans on doing so. I just have a couple more things to get in place before I change it legally. Okay, only one, coming out at work!

[kellycan27]

I am gonna have to go with the "keep my mouth shut crowd" on this one.

[Jorja]

Let's see just how proud you are Badtranny, after being turned down for job after job or job advancement. When you know you are much more qualified for the positions than the ones that got the jobs. Or maybe, being denied a mortgage loan for that fabulous house you want so badly. Or maybe, when you decide to go into business with a partner and it just doesn't happen because your partner feels your status as a known TS woman is not the image they want for the business. There is a time to be proud and there is a time to be smart. Rarely do the two meet.

[Badtranny]

Jorja,

I appreciate your obvious concern for my well being but I've been pretty open here (and ridiculed) about the reason for my methodical transition. My career will be fine because I'm not being careless and impulsive. This sink or swim concept that so many people seem to cling to does not appeal to me. Not be able to find a job? That's not my concern, I just want to make sure my next move is an upward one instead of a lateral one. I don't want to be a Division Manager again. I'd like to run Operations or a Region next. As a very last resort, I would just stay at my current company. I'm not leaving because I have to, I'm leaving because I want to and my transition to full time is as good a time as any to make the change.

What you people fail to understand is I am a unique individual in a unique situation. I have an unflappable belief in myself and the naysayers only serve to encourage me. I'm surprised at how sheeplike this community is because I don't see how any one can grow up trans and not be a rugged individual. If being a fem boy who tried desperately to be a man taught me anything, it's that you MUST believe in yourself because you really can't expect anyone else to.

For some reason my desire to be out is horribly offensive, but that just tells me that it's even more important to be out and proud. I've spent 40 years hiding and being ashamed and I'll be damned if anyone even my own community is going to chase me back into the closet. I totally understand if you don't like it, but all I can say is get over it because I'm here and I'm out and I'm not going anywhere.

How many other people here would post a picture of themselves with no makeup as their avatar? I'm not afraid.

[nuwanda]

Good job keeping your mouth shut, Kaitlyn, and good job being proud, Badtranny. There are times for both, imo.

[Katesback]

I hate to say this but I dont think you get it. This is not about being stealth it is about being a woman. If you really are a woman then you wont go around telling people information that makes you NOT a woman. Of course if you are proud to be a tranny then thats fine as well but then probably some day you will wish you had not been so proud because it can come back to haunt you.





Jorja,

I appreciate your obvious concern for my well being but I've been pretty open here (and ridiculed) about the reason for my methodical transition. My career will be fine because I'm not being careless and impulsive. This sink or swim concept that so many people seem to cling to does not appeal to me. Not be able to find a job? That's not my concern, I just want to make sure my next move is an upward one instead of a lateral one. I don't want to be a Division Manager again. I'd like to run Operations or a Region next. As a very last resort, I would just stay at my current company. I'm not leaving because I have to, I'm leaving because I want to and my transition to full time is as good a time as any to make the change.

What you people fail to understand is I am a unique individual in a unique situation. I have an unflappable belief in myself and the naysayers only serve to encourage me. I'm surprised at how sheeplike this community is because I don't see how any one can grow up trans and not be a rugged individual. If being a fem boy who tried desperately to be a man taught me anything, it's that you MUST believe in yourself because you really can't expect anyone else to.

For some reason my desire to be out is horribly offensive, but that just tells me that it's even more important to be out and proud. I've spent 40 years hiding and being ashamed and I'll be damned if anyone even my own community is going to chase me back into the closet. I totally understand if you don't like it, but all I can say is get over it because I'm here and I'm out and I'm not going anywhere.

How many other people here would post a picture of themselves with no makeup as their avatar? I'm not afraid.

[Badtranny]

Good job keeping your mouth shut, Kaitlyn, and good job being proud, Badtranny. There are times for both, imo.

Hi Nuwanda and thanks!

I see you're new so you haven't learned yet that there is no place for that kind of reasonable thought around here. ;-)

You'd do well to learn how to fall in line behind the "Voice of Experience". Alternative points of view are generally frowned upon, and gawd help you if you still have a penis.

[nuwanda]

Well, Badtranny, I don't belive in God, so I guess there is nobody to help me with the penis thing. As for everything else, I am unreasonable a lot, nay, almost all of the time!

[Jorja]

Jorja,

I appreciate your obvious concern for my well being but I've been pretty open here (and ridiculed) about the reason for my methodical transition. My career will be fine because I'm not being careless and impulsive. This sink or swim concept that so many people seem to cling to does not appeal to me. Not be able to find a job? That's not my concern, I just want to make sure my next move is an upward one instead of a lateral one. I don't want to be a Division Manager again. I'd like to run Operations or a Region next. As a very last resort, I would just stay at my current company. I'm not leaving because I have to, I'm leaving because I want to and my transition to full time is as good a time as any to make the change.

What you people fail to understand is I am a unique individual in a unique situation. I have an unflappable belief in myself and the naysayers only serve to encourage me. I'm surprised at how sheeplike this community is because I don't see how any one can grow up trans and not be a rugged individual. If being a fem boy who tried desperately to be a man taught me anything, it's that you MUST believe in yourself because you really can't expect anyone else to.

For some reason my desire to be out is horribly offensive, but that just tells me that it's even more important to be out and proud. I've spent 40 years hiding and being ashamed and I'll be damned if anyone even my own community is going to chase me back into the closet. I totally understand if you don't like it, but all I can say is get over it because I'm here and I'm out and I'm not going anywhere.

How many other people here would post a picture of themselves with no makeup as their avatar? I'm not afraid.

I guess the only way to respond is to say, I am glad you have it all figured out. Live and Learn. Don't say you weren't warned.

Good Luck

[danielleb]

I'm with you Melissa, and probably a bit more so, but certainly time and place (as you clearly understand already).

In this situation clearly the results speak for themselves! That couldn't have gone any better!

I'd likely have done the same. It's one thing to hide from a beaurocratic nightmare, and another to hide from people you know.:)

[Stephenie S]

Listen Bad Tranny, there is nothing offensive about being an out and proud tranny. Many go through this stage, and it's quite commendable. But that's not the point.

Frances is right. At some point (clearly in the future for you) you may very well want to just get on with your life as a woman. For everyone who you have proudly told about being a "tranny", you will ALWAYS be "that tranny". It can get in the way of your future self.

Sweetie, there really IS something to the "voice of experience". Of course you needn't heed this voice, but at the very least least you should listen to it. It's the voice of EXPERIENCE (duh!).

Stephie

[Badtranny]

I guess the only way to respond is to say, I am glad you have it all figured out. Live and Learn. Don't say you weren't warned.
Gook Luck

Oh puhleeeze! Get over yourselves.

Okay I've been duly warned that I'm destined for a life of unemployment and apparently homelessness because they don't sell houses to trannies. Sheesh

Also, I never claimed to have it "all figured out". All I said was I had a plan. Sue me.

In regard to being a woman, newsflash ladies none of us were born women. Like it or not we are all genetic males. If you want to pretend that isn't so, or just close that chapter of your life than that's your prerogative and really none of my business. I choose to do something different. Why is that anyone's concern but mine?

Do you people know what I look like right now? I look weird. Like something in between and I don't hide it. Finishing my transition will be much more comfortable but I'm not going to hide until then. My life will completely change after FFS but I will still have no problem being open about who I am. I agree it may not be the best choice for everyone, but I'm not exactly a wallflower.

I do love how irritating it is to certain people when we live our own lives without fear or permission.

[Katesback]

Once again I dont think you get what we are saying. But hey theres a ton of out people and thats fine. Take Donna Rose for example. She has been an out tranny since the day she published that book. The problem for her is she has no hope for ever escaping the mold she created. If thats your game then more power to ya.




Oh puhleeeze! Get over yourselves.

Okay I've been duly warned that I'm destined for a life of unemployment and apparently homelessness because they don't sell houses to trannies. Sheesh

Also, I never claimed to have it "all figured out". All I said was I had a plan. Sue me.

In regard to being a woman, newsflash ladies none of us were born women. Like it or not we are all genetic males. If you want to pretend that isn't so, or just close that chapter of your life than that's your prerogative and really none of my business. I choose to do something different. Why is that anyone's concern but mine?

Do you people know what I look like right now? I look weird. Like something in between and I don't hide it. Finishing my transition will be much more comfortable but I'm not going to hide until then. My life will completely change after FFS but I will still have no problem being open about who I am. I agree it may not be the best choice for everyone, but I'm not exactly a wallflower.

I do love how irritating it is to certain people when we live our own lives without fear or permission.

[Sophora]

I have been employing this technique lately myself. I have went to job interviews(as well as putting in applications) as a female. I was never asked nor had I volunteered that information. I have now 3 interviews(with another interview this weekend) and am 2 days in my new cook job. I have said nothing about being in transition and yet most people are referring to as she and letting me know which guys grab ass and are touchy feeling(which I have to say is an awesome feeling). I do feel kind of foolish when I have to show my id and it still has male on it, however it is nice that my male name can be both male and female and I have no problems passing now(I will be going to see the therapist shortly so I can start the hrt).

however, I am using kate's rule when job hunting and it has been profitable for me.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you get over yourself too then!! ;)

why does it bother you so much to be warned? it goes both ways... this debate will go on forever probably...

the comment you made melissa in the newsflash sentence sounds particularly mean spirited if i must say... so you think that is a newsflash to me? that my life is "pretend"? did you say that to hurt?

as an honest question, do any of the comments you are responding to seem mean spirited to you? is there something in particular that makes it hard to accept that the vast majority of people have specific real experience about how often we get treated poorly ?

of course, you say you are a provocateur by nature...that seems like a best case scenario for out trans people...

[kristinacd55]

Aha! Good for you Kaitlyn!! That's awesome girl!

Geez, see there's LOTS of bad karma on this post...what did i get myself into?? Going to leave it for a bit and then delete lol

[Badtranny]

Touche' Kaitlyn, I didn't mean that quite the way it sounded. The adorable Kellycan also pointed this out to me in a very classy way and I think I should clarify in the interest of not offending people I like and respect.

My newsflash comment was a reaction to Kate's assertion that being open is tantamount to not being a woman. How is an "out" post-op any less of a woman than a stealth post-op? I didn't mean to say that we were pretending to be women. I was pointing out that we were all born with pickles and to pretend otherwise is a fantasy.

Look, I plan to have every surgery possible to make me look as beautiful and "fishy" as possible. I don't want to look anything like a man at all. I'm not the least bit thrilled that I was born in this hideous body, but I was and every ounce of denial in my soul is not gonna change that. Like the rest of you my spirit is feminine so I totally understand the feeling of who we are inside and how we've struggled to reconcile that with the unfortunate circumstances of our birth. The only thing we seem to disagree about is the "right" way to live as a trans woman.

I contend there is no right way.

In no way did I mean to be hurtful, provacative perhaps but hurtful, no.

[arbon]

The problem for her is she has no hope for ever escaping the mold she created.

I don't know her story but I am curious if it is a problem for her? Is it something she wants to escape?

[Andrea85]

The only thing we seem to disagree about is the "right" way to live as a trans woman.

I contend there is no right way.

+1 to that. It's the same as hormones. What doses work for one person won't work for another. No two people will ever live their lives exactly the same, and to think so is foolish.

I myself am out to the majority of people I know. Even making new friends or my new possible boyfriend get to know. Doesn't mean I'll go telling everyone everywhere I go.

So that put's me in the middle of being out there and trying to hide who I really am. It works for me, and YMMV, which doesn't matter to me. It's my life and I'll live it how I best see fit. Not by someone elses standards.

[Nicki S]

I don't know her story but I am curious if it is a problem for her? Is it something she wants to escape?She (Donna Rose) wrote a great book and I strongly recommend it. From what I gather from her, she is successful in her job and her new life. She is a real sweetheart to talk to and is very willing to help others in transition. I can only hope that I can transition as smoothly as her and have a normal life after.

[kellycan27]

I for one personally don't care who knows.. i don't advertise and honestly it hasn't been an issue for quite a while, but I do have to take into consideration, my husband who is a successful doctor and looking like he's on the fast track to some very good things in the not too distant future. I can't help but think how the fact that I am a transsexual might affect his career..... should the news come out. None, but his best friend ( my boss) know about my past and my gut is telling me that it's probably for the best.

Kel

[Badtranny]

Who can argue with Kelly's situation? Not me. I think remaining stealth is absolutely the best thing for her. If I was in a similar situation I would do the exact same thing. But that's HER situation and not mine folks

I have no family, wife, kids, husband, or pet to be concerned about. It's only me and I live in freakin' San Francisco! What is so wrong with being a proud TS woman? I'm not the first one that's for sure.

[Schatten Lupus]

Keeping quite has been one of my rules for many years now. People will make assumptions, and many times they will favor you. And if they don't, then you can explain. Actually in many situations I have told my girlfriend to keep quite over things, make subtle suggestions to lead a conversation in a particular direction, and the assumptions of the other party can play heavily in your favor. Rather than a "Kate rule," it is something that I learned from my mom. She may be a tiny woman, but she is very good at getting what she wants because she knows when to speak and when to keep quite.
I've even heard a story of one Tgirl getting the F on her drivers license just because the BMV person thought the M was an error in the system.

[Aprilrain]

OK Kaitlyn I'm confused about the whole bank situation. How is it that this bank would have old records? didn't you change all that after you changed your name? i just recently did all this so that why it doesn't make sense to me. I had to take court documents in to my banks and hand then to some one working there to change my name. the documents clearly state my old name and my new name. My old name is probably the least androgynous male name ever invented! I never said any thing other than "I recently changed my name and need to update my accounts" nor did anyone question my motivations (It was obvious) there was no need to ask and no need to tell However i don't think the people helping me were unclear about my birth gender.

[CharleneT]

I think Kaitlyn is talking about credit records, which are harder to change. They will change over time, but to a credit agency, "a while" is 10 years... When I did my records at the University, it seemed to work fine. But in the last couple of years, I occasionally still find some record that didn't update with the main change. Just had to go in and get a new pwd on my Uni email ... sure enough, the main record is Charlene, and the password database still had my old name... arrggg.... When I did the same at the Uni Hospital it seemed to change everything in one key stroke !! That one seems to really have changed everywhere. Some old records do not update when your main entry is changed. They are not dynamically linked. It can take quite a while to truly erase the old name entries :doh: Oh, and the internet ? GOOD luck trying to get old entries flipped. A lot is un-editable text files (by any user that is).

[noeleena]

Hi..

Im looking at both side's here. & i see that both can or are both right ,
This comes down to a difference that can be accepted with out any problems .

We dont all do the same thing. if we wont acceptance then what works for one may not for another. as many know i did things very differently that involved the media, nation wide, the other detail was i knew too many people going back over 50 years , & many saw my interviews on T V , the heading was noel to noeleena..

Im one of those who could not be seen other than how i have been seen , as in my avata ,pic, tho for me it was not about a transistion or a change, even such as transsexuals go through, being intersex changed how i would do things , yet i have been accepted in to main stream socity . so haveing my history out there for people to see saved me a lot of problems .

My acceptance has been on the grounds of being accepted as a person first , & 2 nd as a woman who is different.

When i meet many new people it's about my self putting people at ease so it's not about how i look or not, its about the person. & how i interact with them .

After you'v been in front of 1000's of people & talking to 100's ,

I'll leave you with this how are you ,,,perceved ,,,,by your look's , only ,or you as a person.

Im accepted as a person.

...noeleena...

[Inna]

Truth is one and only, truth is in the eye of the beholder! If you know in your heart you are a woman, a man or anything of a mix then that is your truth, the absolute truth. Stand by it for it shall bring peace and resolve. On the other hand if you know who you are but keep such as an unwanted nuisance or shelter such from outside world for what ever the reason, it will haunt and slowly turn your seeming happiness into a dark secret and painful regret.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

in this case, it wasn't just a teller or clerk...this was a commercial loan officer, the person i am partnering with made the intros, this was business...if he saw my past, and told the guy i'm investing with, who knows what could happen..
in the case where you are just opening acct's, etc....you just do it...the old name is deleted..i called the cable company and they asked who i was, and i told them...who cares what they think...but in business, it matters...that's why this was important, at least to me..

i think he saw my old name more because i lived in a house, had a mortgage...it also had a 2nd mortgage... i had credit cards there etc... the bank i was at bought that 2nd mortgage in mid 2003... so they have me in their data base...

[Aprilrain]

in this case, it wasn't just a teller or clerk...this was a commercial loan officer, the person i am partnering with made the intros, this was business...if he saw my past, and told the guy i'm investing with, who knows what could happen..
in the case where you are just opening acct's, etc....you just do it...the old name is deleted..i called the cable company and they asked who i was, and i told them...who cares what they think...but in business, it matters...that's why this was important, at least to me..

i think he saw my old name more because i lived in a house, had a mortgage...it also had a 2nd mortgage... i had credit cards there etc... the bank i was at bought that 2nd mortgage in mid 2003... so they have me in their data base...

Yes that was my point I went to the bank to have them change all of that. the mortgage the car loan the savings account the checking account and other accounts that I have thats why I was confused as to why he would see an old name at all ?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

april if you call up your credit report today under your new name, it is likely to have your old name still on it, or it will have your old name as aka/old name.. if you've ever had a lien, if you've ever owned property, if you have ever had a late payment on a credit card, if you've ever had a criminal offense, etcetc..

this will come up in every job search, every credit check, etc... it doesn't all just change and reverse history...it changes what's in the current info set, but your entire history is out there, and it really only takes about 15 seconds to find it..
many people will have less history than me....

april are you in the us? have your have you changed your ss#?

[Empress Lainie]

I have had three jobs, all where I put female on the application. Two were with US Dept of Commerce for Census jobs. The third one I have had for 2 years now.
Only one person where I work thought I might be trans. I trust her and told her yes. One other one I like very much and also trust and have had a number of conversations with her about my life and transitioning. Neither of them treat me as any other than a woman.

So far as I am concerned, I am "just" another woman. Been a female person all my life but was considering the times, simply not aware of why I was different.
If I'm asked, I will confirm it, but will also say something like: "I live as any other woman..."

[CharleneT]

Many individuals in my state are proud TS woman like Melissa for these reasons:

-Motor vehicles issues a new DL number linked to the old record when changing a name and gender marker. Anyone having legal access to my full driving record (police, judge, insurance company, etc.) can view current and prior info.

-The court orders to change my name, amend the sex on my BC and change the name on my BC are public record and available online. It's not unusual for individuals to check out people they meet to see if a criminal history is part of their past. Unfortunately, so are court orders. If I meet a guy and he does a judiciary case search, I'm outed. The info available includes my home address.

-I changed all my bank and credit information. I asked if my birth name would appear on queries and got a "yes."

-Then there are things like zabasearch.com that show current and former info.

I'm cautious revealing information but know if someone is curious, they can go online and view available info.

MLD

I don't want to sound depressing, but it gets worse ... many states will change your BC, but only via what they call "amendment". Which means they change it, but also list why on the certificate! (I was born in Hawaii - they do it this way). So after gender/name change, is says "gender or name changed by order of the court, xx/xx/xxxx day" at the bottom of the new cert.

Thanks for the mention of zabasearch, I had not heard of that one. Funny thing, not only does it list my old name/addresses, but it links my name to the old and current addresses of my ex-wife's, ex-husband ( head hurt yet ). Yup, my ID for some reasons is linked to the man my ex was married to before me.... what a tangled web !!!

It is very difficult, maybe impossible to completely change your past so it cannot be found. But I think that is a little off the topic we've been on. The question of when you should mention your trans status or not. Sure, people can look me or you up very easily now - and in many cases that will happen due to a transaction. Still, keeping "mum" is better because even though they may see the info, if you do not make a big deal out of it, they may not either. Maybe they will just see it, process what it means, and move on with the "you" that is in front of them. That is how my life works now. I do not pass if a person thinks very long about my looks, but most just do not bother. So I "pass" in everyday life just fine. I know, that doesn't quite make sense, but it works.

Obviously there are places where you are going to be confronted eventually, and those particular circumstances do lead to a decision point for you. Two great examples are starting a business (or a new partnership) like Kaitlyn was talking about, or dating. Sigh ... you just have to decide with each circumstance, as it comes up, what and/or when to speak up. Otherwise, in daily life, just be who you are and shut up about your past (Kate's rule). It is "past", right ? We all have things in our past that might be important, but we don't mention them ? Do you start off any new relationship by saying "I used to be an alcoholic.." or whatever ??

[Stephenie S]

Obviously (read the previously written posts), true stealth is impossible in these days of electronic record keeping. Just forget it.

But where you CAN fly a little under the radar is in your day to day life. There is absolutely NO reason to tell all you meet about your slightly unconventional past. Don't do it. It will come back to haunt you every time.

Bad Tranny is out and proud. Is there anything wrong with this? Absolutely not. Actually it's quite commendable. Good for you, Bad Tranny.

BUT what those with some years of experience are saying is that the more people who know your past, the harder it will be in the future to become just a "normal" woman. And that is what you are trying to do, is it not? Did you transition to become a "tranny"? Or did you transition to become a woman? Which is it?? For those who's dream is to become a tranny, then telling everyone matters not a whit. BUT if your dream is to become a WOMAN, then the fewer people who know you as a tranny the better, and easier, your life will be.

S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

it's always good to know all the info you can get...i never heard of zabasearch..i just tried my name and there were 8 listings...ALL under my old name..ugh

if your whole life plan includes "deep" stealth and keeping your past totally and completely out of things...its important to know what can catch you out, and its important to know there is a risk that it's simply impossible...

hope for the best, prepare for the worst..

this really can be a big deal in the situations charlene is talking about...people do go online now to research dating partners!

Stephanie my plan was to invest in myself first...i have done lots of work to be presentable and I'm blessed to have alot of support (which i earned too)...now i go out, and do my thing...as me...create value, build relationships..etc... at some point i am prepared for and OMG moment...but I am ready for it...and at that point, i'm hoping that my new friends and acquaintances will be

it's ok and that they will come from a position of thinking..wow i can't believe "SHE" used to be a guy...and not .."HE" changed into a gal...

[Badtranny]

Here's the bottom line. I don't follow arbitrary rules and I care very little for convention.

If I want to tell someone or everyone that I'm trans, than I will. Is that a bad idea? Well many more people in my real life have told me that transitioning is a bad idea. Clearly I'm not concerned about how other people think I should live my life.

I'm happy, I have a great life, and my future looks like a lot of fun, and believe it or not, I've made it this far by following my instincts and by actively avoiding negativity. Call me whatever you like but I'm not a kid and I'm not looking for a mentor. I'm a grown ass woman, and I've earned the right to live my own life.

[Aprilrain]

Do you start off any new relationship by saying "I used to be an alcoholic.."

Ha! i usually get to that part pretty quick since AA is such a big part of my life.

[arbon]

Did you transition to become a "tranny"? Or did you transition to become a woman? Which is it?? For those who's dream is to become a tranny, then telling everyone matters not a whit. BUT if your dream is to become a WOMAN, then the fewer people who know you as a tranny the better, and easier, your life will be.

S

So, if I understand your point of view, people like Jennifer Boylan, Janet Mock, Amanda Simpson and Jan Morris - just to name a few - would be considered trannys, not really women, and their lives must really suck because they are so open about being trans?

[kellycan27]

So, if I understand your point of view, people like Jennifer Boylan, Janet Mock, Amanda Simpson and Jan Morris - just to name a few - would be considered trannys, not really women, and their lives must really suck because they are so open about being trans?

I for one think you totally misunderstood. Nobody said they're life would suck, simply that being more or less stealth... would make things easier if in fact your choice was to just live quietly as a woman, and there wasn't any suggestion that people who choose to live as openly trans.. are not women. We all march to the beat of a different drummer. People are offering opinions.. isn't that what we do here? Personally.. if Misty wants to stand on her head and spit wooden nickles while dressed in a tutu.. I have no problem with that as long as it's what Misty wants to do. I simply choose not to. Different strokes for differnt folks and all.

[Schatten Lupus]

So, if I understand your point of view, people like Jennifer Boylan, Janet Mock, Amanda Simpson and Jan Morris - just to name a few - would be considered trannys, not really women, and their lives must really suck because they are so open about being trans?
I just had to chime in on how good that point is. And I'm sure there are many that have those left over indications that you can tell they are trans, but live good lives anyway because they didn't let the stigmas or labels hold them back.

[arbon]

, and there wasn't any suggestion that people who choose to live as openly trans.. are not women.

The post I was replying to very clearly suggests that.

[Andrea85]

I just checked out that zabasearch thing. Didn't have me listed at all. Had everyone else I knew listed, but not me. Guess that's what happens when you grow up paranoid and stay under the radar, lol.

[kellycan27]

The post I was replying to very clearly suggests that.

Whoops.. I stand corrected. I just re-readpost 15. My bad!

Kel

[Chickhe]

I'm in the say nothing camp, but it has nothing to do with gender or safety. It has benefits. People like to believe that you are the same as they are and they like minimal disruptions and fear change. So for example, I go to the local plumbing store and ask to buy a boiler... the local store likes to sell services, but I like to DIY. So, I go in the the store and I ask to buy boiler xyz and give them money and they are happy. However, walk in to the same store and say, can you tell me what boiler would be best for my house and you get...sorry we don't don't sell boilers to the public or do you have a license or we only sell it through installers... Keeping quiet is all about listening and getting what you need without having to explain to anyone why you are qualified to do something. In most cases it eliminates discrimination. Let the wheels of buracracy turn, see what comes out the other end before you start kicking the thing... nothing says you can't be proud of who you are also.