The hell is the matter with people?

[Nicole Erin]

Well being full time, going out "en femme" is nothing new. I do go to work as Erin each day (gets a bit tiresome)
Anyways Sometimes I pass and sometimes not. I am realistic. I realize sometimes people are just being respectful and sometimes they see a woman.
For the times someone detects me -
Some just call me "she" or "ma'am" but then there is the rare moron who will call me "he" or "sir".

OK so not always passing is annoying but I am over the "feeling sorry for myself" bit that I think a lot of us go thru.

BUT - it should be REAL evident that I am presenting as a woman, pass or not. So why would some idiots call me "he"? Do I look like I want to be called "he" with my hair done and made up and wearing capri's and a blouse? (my normal outfits) And let us not forget the female voice.

You know there is the whole "passing" vs "tolerance/acceptance" thing. But I am starting to wonder if some people are just plain morons. I guess like today when this happened at Walgreen's when some older guy was like, "Go ahead and take care of him, I need to get my wallet out of my car" I could have been rude and said, "Oh no it is fine, go ahead and wait on that bum first"

I know for some TG who are just starting to get out, being called "ma'am" or "she" is something that will brighten their whole day. thing is I have been "out" for quite some time and I am to the point of expecting a certain amount of respect instead of feeling privileged by being called "she".
I have a job in my new gender role, I lost my spouse cause of this, I have been ridiculed in the past, been told to "stay in the closet", put a lot of time and money (what I could afford) into this, and been thru all the other awkward adjustments that someone living full time has dealt with. Yes, I do feel I deserve at least minimal respect by being called "she" even if someone does detect.
I mean unless a guy dressing full femme is now a new and accepted fashion but I somehow doubt it is "normal" just yet.

I dress presentably and respectfully. I don;t run around dressed as a hooker or cheerleader. I don't wave a flag or dance around screaming about "Trans pride". No, I act as a normal, everyday woman. Is that not enough to earn some respect?
I think when you have done all you can to "earn" respect but it is not given, you almost have to start demanding it.

Yeah I am agitated.

[AllieSF]

Hi Nicole, Sorry to hear of your frustrations. Some people have trouble with that. I know that I do and I am always so careful to use the correct pronouns. I have a couple of friends that I make that same mistake with and I know it as soon as it comes out of my mouth. One is a FtM post op and the other is a MtF. I tell them that I try my best and sometimes make the same mistake with the same person. I ask them for tolerance of my foot in mouth disease and it seems to work when I end up screwing up. I also made that mistake with a FtM TS who also liked to include some female accessories. That really blew my feeble mind and I was continually saying her/she when it was supposed to be him/he. It was that bit of femme scarf or earrings that I would get a glimpse of just when I needed to use the correct pronoun! He still liked me, errors and all. So, all I can say, is try your best to be nice when someone makes that mistake when they are not used to being around a TS. If they are obviously rude, then go get em Nicole. Good luck.

[Steph.TS]

I know someone that would probably use the incorrect pronoun just to get a rise out of you, thinking he's being a wise and clever street preacher... many times I think he's confused or other times simply an ass.

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah with people I have known a while, it is understandable cause since then knew "him" first then it is alright but like with strangers is when it bothers me.

[Melody Moore]

Nicole, I understand your frustrations, but people are people and will always be so
unpredictable in how they will react to you. But I am well prepared emotionally &
psychologically to deal with anyone who might try and do something like this to get
a rise out out me

Depending on the situation I might say something, but the chances are great that I
won't even say a thing now - I will just put a sarcastic smirk on my face & shake my
head in disapproval at the person & then walk away. Because I know who I am & that
it is them with the real issues here and not me.

As Allie said be nice and this will make them question themselves more than doing something
where you will just end up revealing your insecurities - So the key is here hun, don't let it get
to you. It is hard to do at first, but eventually you will develop a very thick skin which should
enable you to just let this crap wash straight over you.
So just keep smiling & keep holding you head while walking tall & proud :hugs:

[ReineD]

But I am starting to wonder if some people are just plain morons.


I mean unless a guy dressing full femme is now a new and accepted fashion but I somehow doubt it is "normal" just yet.

Not morons, so much as ignorant. Clueless. They just don't get it, as incredible as this seems.

There are people who do have a single-minded view of the world, and when they read gender cues that to them means male even if the cues are subtle, they just figure you're a guy who has odd tastes in clothes. It doesn't even occur to them that you are presenting as a woman, even if what you are wearing is ultra feminine. I'm guessing these people probably have a well developed 'live and let live' attitude, since they don't seem to pay much attention to what you are wearing.

Now, if someone is obviously critical and says a very pronounced "Sir" just to get a rise out of you, I don't blame you for being ticked off. This is a huge lack of respect. But the ones who have no clue? I bet if you corrected them nicely, they'd apologize and then call you Ma'am.

[SusanLCD]

Nicole,

Some months back, I was walking through a Sears store when a woman approached me. As she got near me, she said "I love your dress." (A sundress that I also like because it fits me well and looks good.) That felt good.

Less than an hour later, I entered a Ross Dress for Less store a few blocks away from the Sears store. The store's security guard, who was standing a short way from the entrance, said "Hello, Sir" to me in a voice loud enough to ensure everyone in the store would hear him. Only a few people looked my way, but, it ruined the glow from the compliment that I had received earlier.

Thankfully, there are only a few of these neanderthal types around. Sometimes they seem to feel they've achieved something by belittling us. Bullying is the term. But, as Reine says, the problem is with them. Not you.

I know it's not easy, but, don't let the turkeys get you down. The laugh's on them because you're living a life the fullness of which they could never conceive.

[Gaby2]

Thanks for sharing, Nicole.
It's almost as if you're taking me out there with you - right into everyday life!
Whether I ever manage that or not is irrelevant - you are an amazing person.
In many ways, you're holding up a mirror to quite a few people in the locality where you live.
You are showing them who and what they are.
Try not to let the negative reactions annoy you too much.
(Although I would miss your observations:battingeyelashes:)
It's their choice to be like this.
:rose2:Gaby

[Diane Elizabeth]

I think I might have looked straight at him and say "I beg your pardon". At least I hope I can come up withsomething to say, prefferably witty. I haven't had that happen yet other than at a Gay Pride Weekend I was visiting a booth and as I left the guy said "thank you sir" to me. I just left quietly without a reply.

[linda allen]

The older I get, the more I realize that I just don't like people! Well, I like my friends, and I like a lot of people, but in general, people are jerks.

Yes, you are presenting as a female, but some jerk reads you and it makes him feel big and manly to call you "sir" or "him". He is a jerk, no doubt.

There's not much point in saying anything, because jerks are like cockroaches. Get rid of one and another takes its place within minutes.

[darla_g]

well i guess that is not the greatest, but I've seen it happen to GGs too. they get really insulted when they get referred to as guys. some people are just clueless

[Wendy_Marie]

Nicole,
I am on the same page and must be dealing with some of the same idiots as you....I am an intelligent individual and so realize that mistakes are inevitable...but come on. It has been my experience that the more feminine and girly I dress, the more of these "Mistakes" are made.
I think it is relates back to human sexuality and those who make these mistakes do so because of their own sexual frustrations...I have noticed that the most Accepting Females are alos the ones who seem to be the most self assured, well educated types who enjoy being feminine themselves!..?
Buck up Girl...Your not alone in feeling frustrated.

[arbon]

But I am starting to wonder if some people are just plain morons.

You don't watch a lot of news do you?

[Leanne2]

Nicole,
My wife is 6 feet tall but very slender and feminine. One time she was in line at a grocery store. My wife was wearing a feminine ruffled blouse over shorts that showed off her long sexy legs. Her hair was long and she was wearing earrings. The older woman ahead of my wife saw the few items that she had and said to the clerk," Take him ahead of me. He only has a few things." The clerk and my wife looked at each other and rolled their eyes. Apparently all the older woman noticed was that the person behind her was tall so therefore it must be a man. Sometimes people make a gender mistake because simply because they aren't paying attention. Sometimes that works in our favor. I pass most of the time because people don't look at me close enough. But I try not to get upset when I am clocked. That is part of being a transgender woman. Leanne

[Miss Maxine]

I believe that some people just feel threatened by us be because they don't understand us. They want to give the impression that they "know better" and "have us figured out" so they can feel better about their own insecurities. I don't think it is anything personal, against us. If anything, it's their own personal issue, with themselves. I used to work in a military hospital (I was active duty) and we had a TS veteran come to a clinic for an appointment. Some of the techs were overreacting and exclaimed to me that they didn't know whether to call her "sir" or "ma'am." I politely explained that "ma'am" would be most appropriate, since that was how she was presenting herself. What would seem like common sense, to us, is often lost on those who have had the misfortune of not being exposed to diversity.

[Kaitlyn26]

Humans are pretty crummy organisms. They're the only ones on earth that derive something called pleasure, and that emotion has made them evil. Think of them as what they are, and not what you are, and you'll feel a lot better.

[Inna]

Clues! Clues! Clues! I know it is annoying especially when out some time already but such is life. Human visual perception is incredible and unfortunately for us, such perception is undoing. There is a point at which you can achieve an absolute, when there isn't anymore in your face that says Hmmmm, guy or girl? Unfortunately again it cost exuberant amounts of money and is called full FFS, sometimes multiple surgery is necessary and spending upwards of 60K.

Such is reality and we will get frustrated from time to time, and for most of the time these comments aren't to stir up the negative but just this is how we are perceived in their eye.

I for one am doing absolutely everything I can to gather enough funds to be able to afford FFS, and I really thing that FFS is the most feminizing of procedures, after all face is the most important sexual organ :)

[Carole Cross]

I know how you feel Nicole, it happens to me sometimes even though I have been full time for over a year. It does got less as your confidence grows but there are always some people who think they are being clever by pointing out to others that you were born male. I am fairly certain than most of those who hear them think that they are cluless morons.

[Momarie]

I am so sorry you have to experience this.

Try not to let it get to you.
Perhaps you misread these people?

[Stephenie S]

And we may be mis-reading this behavior.

Many, many people now a days (far more than a scant 20 years ago) have learned to be tolerant of others, at least in public. There is far more PC awareness than many of us remember.

These gender mistakes MAY be attempts at ACCEPTANCE of genderqueer presentation. SOME of these people who are mistaking your gender presentation may be just seeing a guy in a dress and accepting it rather than trying to give you a hard time.

At this point it's hard to tell, but I can promise you with complete sincerity, IT WILL GET BETTER.

S

[danielleb]

I'm sure I don't need to tell you, but just do what you can do. The rest falls in the control of somone else's hands, and there's nothing you can do about it. There's always gonna be jerks in this world so no point in worrying about the couple of people that call your attention vs. the rest of the people that allow you to move seamlessly through your day. You have your own life and pay your own way, so whatever someone else thinks is simply their problem, don't make it yours! :)

[Aprilrain]

after all face is the most important sexual organ :)

i thought that was the brain

[donnalee]

i thought that was the brainI imagine it depends on exactly what you are doing.

I am one of those who makes more unintentional faux pas than seems humanly possible; I forget peoples names, half the time I forget their face and draw a total blank when confronted by someone who acts like we are bosom buddies. Although I would never unintentionly offend someone(occasionly it is necessary and intentional), sometimes, like any human being, I screw up (maybe more frequently than most). Please forgive all of us our mistakes; a lot of the time we know not what we do. Just remember, a$$holes come in all varieties.
At the end of it all, you get to be you and they have to suffer through being them. That's the best revenge I know of.

[Hope]

Yeah - it sounds like we are at about the same spot in transition, and I have to report that I have this same experience. Back when it happened a lot more often, I used to get really angry, but realized that some people are just not sure how to react to what they perceive as a dude in a dress and they take a guess at how you would want to be addressed and they guessed wrong (because referring to a man with female pronouns is such a huge insult if he really is a GUY - even if he is wearing a dress and make up and a name tag with a girl name - but referring to a girl with male pronouns is a compliment of sorts - so they err on the safe side. Maybe.). And some of the folks are just assholes. But now that it happens so infrequently I am sure that the only folks who do it are the assholes. And I don't have time in my life to be concerned with the perceptions and needs of assholes. So I ignore them.

The folks who are really trans-phobic are the ones who make me giggle the most. I just recall the statistics. The numbers reveal that just like with homophobia, the most transphobic among us, are the closet cases. So when a guy gets obnoxious with me, I just smile and think "See you in 10 years asshole!" And that is the key to getting over this - the knowledge that the people who are intentionally misgendering you - are telling you WAY more about themselves than they intend to.

But here is the other thing I have noticed - now that the giddiness has worn off of being called "she" and "her," not only do I not notice it as often as it happens - but I also have recently noticed that when people say "she" and "her" it doesn't always register that they are talking about me. I hear the negative junk - but I tune out the positive. I'm working on that.

[Inna]

i thought that was the brain
Thanks for the correction, appreciated, however I was writing it in the recognition factor and it so happens that our brain (the sexual organ it is) has a supreme way of recognizing clues hidden within a makeup of our features and face is the most important of all the features observed in the first milliseconds of observation. If the observer determines without the doubt the gender of an observed, he or she is coded with the label of an appropriate gender and is then very hard to get recoded once again. Hence the description should rather read "Face is the most important in recognition of gender attribute"

Such is soo important that once face is absolutely female, the rest, such as body and voice could be well within male characteristics and still the recognition will be female with very male attributes, butch, tomboy, manly girl.

[Jessinthesprings]

Yes you have every right be be angry. I have been in the same position. The darn Drive Through girl almost seemed like she was going out of her way to "sir". Afterall if you don't know what pronoun to use it's really simple not to use any at all. However, on the plus side I don't get that too much so the world is wiseing up. It's sad our generations has to be the pathfinders but, it is something we must shoulder so that future generations can live in peace.

[Nicole Erin]

Well on a good note, today something weird happened.
I was at work and someone said to one of my co-workers - "yes sir"
Now this person passes 100% for female, you would never think it was a male, because she is a GG. Well anyways irony aside -

I was thinking, "WTH?! That is a woman and someone said, "yes sir"?!

Is it like maybe a knee-jerk reaction sometimes too? I mean the lady who got called "sir" is not TS in any ways but a GG...

Now I REALLY think some people have lost it :S

[Misti]

Well being full time, going out "en femme" is nothing new. I do go to work as Erin each day (gets a bit tiresome).... Anyways Sometimes I pass and sometimes not...

Ah, life's little pleasures. Some day I will be as lucky as you are Ncole, and when that time comes, :daydreaming: I'll let you know what my reaction(s) is(are) to the perceived(?) insult. :heehee:

Right now I just reply to the "Sir" thing with, "I left the 'Sir' behind when I retired from the Air Force long ago." Their response is that I earned it, and you know what? They're 100% correct. But then, that's a different story for a different time!

Keep the faith girl! :battingeyelashes:

[Melody Moore]

Nicole,

I really don't think that people have lost it, I think it is more of a case that people get use to using certain labels.
I have seen others respond to a female with the "Yes Sir!' statement before & it was because the female staff
member was giving directions to another staff member or because a wife had told her husband to do something.

Here in Australia it is very common for guys to refer to their friends as 'mates', but the original meaning of the word
'mate' is someone you copulate with. So they cannot really be 'mates'. For a long time I felt that this word was only
used between males when they were referring to their male friends & I use to take offence when others would use
the word after I started to transition & would say "I have never been your mate and never will be your mate - got it?".
But then I realised that girls also refer to their girlfriends as "mates" as well purely because this has been accepted now
as a term that is used to refer to our friends more than as sexual partners.

But the use of verbs, adverbs, adjectives, nouns, pronouns has changed dramatically over the years.
Just like the word 'Gay' for example which originally meant "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"
& had nothing to do with being homosexual. Or the original latin meaning of the word "effeminate" that
had nothing to do at all with the feminine qualities untypical of a man as it is mostly used today. If you
dig back into the latin origins of the word Effeminate you will find that it originally meant 'Soft, Gentle, Mild
or mellow, weak or feeble' and was used as an insult towards men who refused to fight in the Roman crusades.

See: http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/effeminate

A similar thing is happening with words like 'Bad' or 'Sick' - young people today often use this word to mean the total
opposite of their true meanings - eg: 'That is soooo sick' or 'that is soooo bad' when they are implying that something
is really good.

So this should give you some idea why & how people misuse words &
also apply new meanings to words commonly used in modern language.

People have lost the ability to use words in their proper context, but I don't think they have lost it in other ways.

[Cindi Johnson]

Having worked in retail for several years, I'll echo Leanne's comments. When you deal with a hundred, or several hundred, customers during a day, one tends to make mistakes. Tired and overworked, I've occasionally addressed 6'2'' linebacker macho types as "ma'am" and petite young women as "sir". It happens, particularly in a "big box" environment where the employer pushes and pushes and then pushes even more. My suggestion: don't take it too personally. (Plus, it sometimes works in one's favor: I've been called "ma'am" when in drab, making my day, even though I know it was probably just a simple mistake by an overworked cashier.)