A sure head scratcher.....

[Princess Chantal]

Why don't people recognize the practice of wearing feminine clothing such as panties, pantyhose, brassieres, etc underneath their masculine clothing as a form of crossdressing out in the public, when the person is in fact crossdressing out in public?
:doh:

[kendra_gurl]

Simply because if they can't see it how are they to know your wearing it

[Princess Chantal]

Simply because if they can't see it how are they to know your wearing it

So if they can't see that you are crossdressing means you are not crossdressing?
Geez, I guess all those that "pass" in public aren't crossdressing in public
:heehee:

[suchacutie]

Kendra's right: it's the "public-presentation thing". The other side of the coin is that I wear panties and girl jeans on a regular basis completely in guy mode, and don't consider myself crossdressed at all. Crossdressing to me is a state of mind, having transformed to my feminine self.

And that is why we can have any number of discussions on this lovely forum, as all of us have a different take on what it is to be transgendered! :)

tina

[BRANDYJ]

Not sure what you mean. If I am out in public with feminine clothing under my male clothes, sure, I recognise the fact that I am crossdressing. Are you saying some guys don't consider that crossdressing? If you mean other people that I run into out in the public, they sure would not know what I am wearing under my male clothes. So to them, I am not crossdressing. Dis someone tell you they were not crossdressing if the clothes are not visable?

[Maria 60]

You could say that, i myself enjoy underdressing and i love the feel of pantyhose against my legs. In the winter months it's part of my everyday dressing. It's not much dressing in public but lets say if something happens it will be public very fast. A few months ago i was wearing pantyhose under my jeans and no socks on, while i was walking a lady from behind hit my shoe with her shopping cart and my runner came off and lets say it became public really fast. I looked down and seen my pantyhosed foot out in the open. She said sorry and looked at my foot a few times.

[Kittyagain]

I am a bit confused. The "people" in your question, is that Cross Dresser's or the general public?

Kitty


Why don't people recognize the practice of wearing feminine clothing such as panties, pantyhose, brassieres, etc underneath their masculine clothing as a form of crossdressing out in the public, when the person is in fact crossdressing out in public?
:doh:

[Billie Jean]

Mom always said wear clean underwear you might be in an accident. Billie Jean

[Princess Chantal]

Are you saying some guys don't consider that crossdressing?

No I am saying that those that crossdress underneath your male clothing in public, take credit and consider yourself to have the jabronies to have/or be crossdressed in public.... it's just a fact that you are crossdressing in public

[kendra_gurl]

Perhaps you could elaborate on exatly who these people are your talking about. While ONLY underdressing is certainly a form of crossdressing, if that is the extent to which you dress I would suggest you someone with more of a lingerie fetish than a traditional crossdresser.

It's all good and fun either way so don't let those who are stressing you get your panties in a wad... Have fun

[Princess Chantal]

LOL I am not stressing out.... I do crossdress in public in the several crossdressing forms with confidence and fun in mind
I am wondering why those that have experience of crossdressing underneath their male clothing in public, just don't give theirselves a well deserved pat on the back for being awesome!!!!

[Kittyagain]

I think I understand now. You are making a statement that a person that wears woman's clothes underneath their male clothes is cross dressing in public and therefore is a Cross Dresser.

Kitty

[Princess Chantal]

What is a traditional crossdresser?

[Kittyagain]

Now I got what you are saying and you are right.

Kitty


LOL I am not stressing out.... I do crossdress in public in the several crossdressing forms with confidence and fun in mind
I am wondering why those that have experience of crossdressing underneath their male clothing in public, just don't give theirselves a well deserved pat on the back for being awesome!!!!

[Princess Chantal]

I think I understand now. You are making a statement that a person that wears woman's clothes underneath their male clothes is cross dressing in public and therefore is a Cross Dresser.

Kitty
Almost had it there Kitty..... just the ending was a miss!!!

A person that wears woman's clothes underneath their male clothes is cross dressing in public and therefore is out and about in the public crossdressed

[VioletJourney]

Because you're still posing as a dude, just with different undergarments.

[ReineD]

What is a traditional crossdresser?

That's a great question!

I hope Leslie Langford won't mind, but this is her interpretation (from a different thread) of the traditional crossdressers whom I also believe dominate this forum:

... those of us who already knew from a very early age that we were somehow "different", always had an affinity for female clothing, began borrowing and trying on our mother's, sisters', cousins' etc. clothes anywhere between the ages of 6-12, getting into crossdressing more and more as we entered our teenage years, got married with the expectation that this would "cure" us of our unusual needs (NOT!), went into denial several times during our lifetimes and purged, only to replace our female wardrobes repeatedly as the pink fog enveloped us, and late in life, finally came to accept that this is who we really were and took it to increasingly higher levels, including going out en femme periodically - and truly regretting that we hadn't done all of this much sooner after belatedly discovering that the world is a far more accepting place than we had ever imagined.

[BRANDYJ]

[QUOTE=ReineD;2579933]That's a great question! QUOTE]

That is a great question. And Leslie's explaination is probably as good of an explantion as we might find. However still with some differences between each of us that fit that description. In my case, as a teenager, I would stop wearing feminine clothes whenever I was interested in a new girl or was going steady with one. My self concious would get the best of me and I always felt it was wrong when I had those special feelings for a girl. Yes, I did think my getting married would cure me of the need to dress. Like 99.99% of us, I was wrong about that. But my first wife never knew I was a cd. I would have died if she found out. I was only seventeen when I first married and divorced after 5 years. It wasn't until I met my second wife, 3 years later that I finally shared that secret with another and began the process of accepting myself along with her help. She died after 10 great years together. OPPS! Don't want to get to far off topic.
So I am a traditional crossdresser that also underdresses at times. But either fully dressed with makeup, hose, heels, wig, forms and a nice dress, or just panties on under my jeans, I'm still a crossdresser.

[Anna Bee]

Because although the words may not imply it, the topic of going out in public is really aimed at determining how much you "put yourself out there", how much risk you took, yada yada yada.

So while dressing under your clothes does introduce some risk, it's not nearly as exposing and emotional as going out in full girl mode...

[sissystephanie]

If anyone read Princess Chantal's OP correctly, they would know that she was speaking ONLY of crossdressers, not the rest of the public! Of coure she also explained that fact herself more than once!! And of course she is right. If you wear feminine clothes under your male clothes you are crossdressing, whether anybody sees it or not!

BTW, I think that I would easily qualify as a Traditional Crossdresser since I started at age 6 and am now age 79! There was a 5year period years ago when I completely stopped dressing because I thought it was better for my family!! My dear late wife begged me to start dressing again after the 5 years.

[Iskandra]

Simply because if they can't see it how are they to know your wearing it

So if one wears fem clothes (to any degree) alone and in the comfort and privacy of your own home, you are not a crossdresser because no-one can see it?
Ok you can see it yourself by looking in a mirror, but what if you are blind? Does the tactile and mental aspect not count?

[Miss Maxine]

When I was in the Air Force, one of the uniforms rules made it very clear that undergarments are a mandatory part of the uniform. Therefore, not wearing underwear meant you were out of uniform. I always wondered how someone would enforce that, without creating a sexual harrassment issue, at the same time.

[Princess Chantal]

Because although the words may not imply it, the topic of going out in public is really aimed at determining how much you "put yourself out there", how much risk you took, yada yada yada.

So while dressing under your clothes does introduce some risk, it's not nearly as exposing and emotional as going out in full girl mode...

I'm a good card player as well,
Those that dress to blend in are not as exposing as those that dress for attention.... In that case: dressing for attention trumps "blending in".
Should those that dress for attention deserve a higher form of praise?

[sissystephanie]

If they are really good looking GG's, I would yes they deserve more attention. If they are supposedly normal CD's, I would say they deserve less attention because they are the ones who bring bad PR to crossdressers!! Unless the CD can turn himself into a beautiful lady, he should not try to attract attention! My late wife could turn me into a darn good looking lady, but I never tried to attract attention!! I have always dressed to blend in!!

[Sarah Doepner]

So if I maintain a pedicure and think of it as part of my crossdressing, then do I fit the definition you describe? I think I do.

Actually you're moving toward the old question of "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?" The answer is of course it does and the crossdresser who goes out wearing cute panties under his jeans or a cami under his suit coat is testing the waters of public crossdressing. These are the small steps many of us take as we explore and expand that territory we want to inhabit. I say kudos to ALL of us here. Whether or not we are going out on a regular basis and flying pretty or staying content in our own home, we are finding ways to adjust our perceptions of gender to make ourselves happier and less stressed about something that shouldn't be such an issue in this day and age.

[docrobbysherry]

What a tempest in a teapot! Chantell, if U THINK you're crossdressing, COOL! If I'm out with panties, bra, nylons under my jeans, I'M NOT!

U can call a duck a weasel if u like! But, I STILL SEE a duck!

[LilSissyStevie]

The thing that the underdresser and the passing/blending CD have in common is that neither wants the public to know that they're a man wearing women's clothes. So, in that sense, neither are crossdressing in public. The only people actually CDing in public are the ones who are obviously and purposefully presenting as "men in skirts." Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against underdressing (something I do) or passing/blending (something I haven't got a chance of doing) but let's not look down our noses at each other when we're still in some type of closet, including the mobile kind.

[Pythos]

sissystephanie,


If they are supposedly normal CD's, I would say they deserve less attention because they are the ones who bring bad PR to crossdressers!! Unless the CD can turn himself into a beautiful lady, he should not try to attract attention!

Actually I take umbrage to this line.

I do not dress to pass, (unless I am going to an actual CD related thing). I dress in a manner that is usually a mix of male and female, leaning heavy toward fem. Is my overall look a bad PR thing for Crossdressers?

I act in a respectful manner, I am nice to others, I am mostly decent (That shiny dress I wore for clubbing was a challenge to maintain "decency" but was still done with some taste).

I do what many can consider "crossdressing" daily, due to my wearing of leggings in an otherwise "male" mode. Is this an affront to CDing in general?

You can say the styles I wear ARE meant to attract attention, they are also done to get people to think outside the box when it comes to their own presentation. I would love for people to see me, as a male, wearing some crazy outfits, and say "if he can do that, then so can I" and perhaps the next time show up in something that gives my style a run for its money :). Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I do my damdest to NOT present a bad image, despite the oddity that I am trying to do, and do well. I always dress to the 9s in my own manner, when I go out for a CD event, or for clubbing.

[Christina Horton]

I'm probably going to get slammed on this but this is the way I look at it.

If you underdress under you male clothes and your full in male mode then no I don't consider it Crossdressing out in public.
WHY! Well it's because your not being the girl you want to be. Your not your otherself. Your just your everyday boring male side. That's it.
I have an uncle that underdresses and does not considers himself a CD.
Now don't get me wrong it's a foot in the door. A small step. The bud of the flower to come.
Now if there were 10 people all guys standing in line and you had to pick out the crossdressers , 5 are underdresses and 5 were dressed as women , whom should you pick as the CDs ? You'd pick the 5 fully dressed. Why because if you did not know the other 5 were underdresses you'd never know.
If you think it's CDing out in public then that just fine. Your opinions is not wrong nor is mine or anybody else's.
But for me to be (OUT DRESSED IN PUBLIC) you have to be wearing womens clothing. If your full dressed , or wearing all womens clothes be in guy mode your still DRESSED in public. But if it's hidden then no I don't call it out!
Sorry but that's MHO !

[kimdl93]

if a tree falls on a crossdresser in the forest, and no one sees, is the person a cross dresser?

[kendra_gurl]

if a tree falls on a crossdresser in the forest, and no one sees, is the person a cross dresser?

Ha Ha Kim I guess for the purpose of this thread we would have to know if he was dressed or just under dressed.

I saw a crossdresser this morning. How do I know he was a CD? Well the fist thing that grabbed my attention from 1/2 a block away was that I saw two people walking across the street at a major intersection. One smaller wearing typical walking or workout clothing of shorts a color corodinating tank top and shoes with medium length hair pulled back in a ponytail and with a very feminine walk and sway of the hips.
Beside her was a rather taller and heavier person wearing a black flaired skirt DRESS with ruffels and lace around the hem, with white ankle socks and white wedges. (These are what grabbed attention right off) Also very short hair and a very muscular linebacker walk.
As they got closer to me I could see that the female with him was acting perfectly normal walking and looking forward watching the sidewalk along her way. Her companion on the other hand was watching every one watch her. It was very obvious she was trying to be noticed and seemed to be enjoying the attention and stares from every one stopped in traffic.
This is they type of CD that while they do bring obvious crossdressing into the public eye which perhaps over time will promote tolorance and aceptance I personally just don't appreciate their method.
I will admit that 30 years ago the ones who brought about the GAY rights movements were the Flaming IN YOUR FACE TYPES so if thats what it takes, more power to them.
I'ts just not and never will be my style or mission.



So if one wears fem clothes (to any degree) alone and in the comfort and privacy of your own home, you are not a crossdresser because no-one can see it?
Ok you can see it yourself by looking in a mirror, but what if you are blind? Does the tactile and mental aspect not count?

Iskandra If you read the OP only, you will understand my comment was not about the person underdressing but about those who see him and have no clue he is underdressed. How could they know? The OP was very vague about who these people are who don't consider him a CD.

[Leslie Langford]

That's a great question!

I hope Leslie Langford won't mind, but this is her interpretation (from a different thread) of the traditional crossdressers whom I also believe dominate this forum:

Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

... those of us who already knew from a very early age that we were somehow "different", always had an affinity for female clothing, began borrowing and trying on our mother's, sisters', cousins' etc. clothes anywhere between the ages of 6-12, getting into crossdressing more and more as we entered our teenage years, got married with the expectation that this would "cure" us of our unusual needs (NOT!), went into denial several times during our lifetimes and purged, only to replace our female wardrobes repeatedly as the pink fog enveloped us, and late in life, finally came to accept that this is who we really were and took it to increasingly higher levels, including going out en femme periodically - and truly regretting that we hadn't done all of this much sooner after belatedly discovering that the world is a far more accepting place than we had ever imagined.

O.K., you guys - I'm going to have that description copyrighted, and you can all send your royalties to me care of this forum! :D :eek: :tongueout

All kidding aside, nice to see that what I said there resonated with so many people.

Et Reine, t'es vraiement un tresor!

[Leslie Langford]

Why don't people recognize the practice of wearing feminine clothing such as panties, pantyhose, brassieres, etc underneath their masculine clothing as a form of crossdressing out in the public, when the person is in fact crossdressing out in public?
:doh:

Here's a philosophical question: if a male crossdresser is wearing female "boyshorts", is he still technically crossdressing/underdressing? :D

Kind of makes me think of deadpan comedian Stephen Wrights' famous line about making instant coffee in a microwave oven and in the process, going back in time...:doh::eek::heehee:

[Princess Chantal]

So if I maintain a pedicure and think of it as part of my crossdressing, then do I fit the definition you describe? I think I do.

Actually you're moving toward the old question of "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound?" The answer is of course it does and the crossdresser who goes out wearing cute panties under his jeans or a cami under his suit coat is testing the waters of public crossdressing. These are the small steps many of us take as we explore and expand that territory we want to inhabit. I say kudos to ALL of us here. Whether or not we are going out on a regular basis and flying pretty or staying content in our own home, we are finding ways to adjust our perceptions of gender to make ourselves happier and less stressed about something that shouldn't be such an issue in this day and age.
First of all let me say, Awesome post!!!!!
If you believe that your pedicure is a part of your crossdressing and you take this form of crossdressing out in to the public (visible to others or not), then you are in fact taking your crossdressing out into the public.


What a tempest in a teapot! Chantell, if U THINK you're crossdressing, COOL! If I'm out with panties, bra, nylons under my jeans, I'M NOT!

U can call a duck a weasel if u like! But, I STILL SEE a duck!

If you think wearing panties, bra and nylons are not a part of your crossdressing.... then I do agree with you that you are not taking your crossdressing out into public. However, if wearing these feminine items are a part of your crossdressing then you are taking your crossdressing out in to the public (visible to others or not)

I believe that wearing panties, bra, pantyhose, and/or nail polish is a part of my crossdressing. Therefore, when I am wearing these articles than I am crossdressing, no matter if it's covered up or not.


sissystephanie,



Actually I take umbrage to this line.

I do not dress to pass, (unless I am going to an actual CD related thing). I dress in a manner that is usually a mix of male and female, leaning heavy toward fem. Is my overall look a bad PR thing for Crossdressers?

I act in a respectful manner, I am nice to others, I am mostly decent (That shiny dress I wore for clubbing was a challenge to maintain "decency" but was still done with some taste).

I do what many can consider "crossdressing" daily, due to my wearing of leggings in an otherwise "male" mode. Is this an affront to CDing in general?

You can say the styles I wear ARE meant to attract attention, they are also done to get people to think outside the box when it comes to their own presentation. I would love for people to see me, as a male, wearing some crazy outfits, and say "if he can do that, then so can I" and perhaps the next time show up in something that gives my style a run for its money :). Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I do my damdest to NOT present a bad image, despite the oddity that I am trying to do, and do well. I always dress to the 9s in my own manner, when I go out for a CD event, or for clubbing.

Smiles with a little eye twitch at Pythos and says
"Geez, these people that want to "blend in" sure gives our form of crossdressing some negative PR"



WHY! Well it's because your not being the girl you want to be. Your not your otherself.
When I go out in public in a obvious visible full feminine appearance, I am being the crossdresser (girl?) that I want to be at that moment. When I go out in public underdressed, I am being the crossdresser (girl?) that I want to be at that moment.

[DebbieL]

Why don't people recognize the practice of wearing feminine clothing such as panties, pantyhose, brassieres, etc underneath their masculine clothing as a form of crossdressing out in the public, when the person is in fact crossdressing out in public?
:doh:

Perhaps it's because underdressing is far more common than we might think. Growing up in the 1960s, gender conformity was a big deal, because there was still a draft and a war going on. Transvestites could be arrested, and being gay or transgendered would get you out of the draft, but it would also get you locked out of most other opportunities as well.

In my school, the boys' toilet stalls had no doors, so you didn't want to sit, because they could see your underwear. In Junior High and High School, we had to take showers. Any type of deviation would result in acute physical pain, inflicted by those charged with "beating up the sissies, fairies, faggots and queers", usually the jocks, often under the supervision of the gym teacher.

We all wore "Tidy Whities" and having too little hair, or too much, could make you a target. Wearing shorts to school was permitted after 9th grade, but if a boy did it, he would be dragged across the asphalt pavement of the outdoor playground. The coach was trying to train the boys for military service, and those who weren't fit for service were dehumanized and atttacked. In Vietnam, we often had to fight women, and children. Some of the deadliest snipers weren't "Charlie", they were "Charlene". A 10 year old boy could throw a hand-grenade into a truck full of troops. The gym coach was giving the boys the training needed so that they could kill anyone, any time, without hesitation, the instant the order came.

But by college, we had more privacy, and in the 1970s and 1980s, we had more freedom. In the 1970s, we had the quiana shirts of Saturday Night Live, we had spandex briefs, and we had tight fitting bell bottom pants. We thought "kinky" meant leaving on the underwear while having sex.

In the 1980s, there were even more fabrics, styles and colors. And wearing women's panties was easier. With more experience, Under-dresser learned to wear baggy pants, loose shirts made of thick fabric, and jackets or sweatshirts. The panty lines and bra-lines could be seen by women, but unless they wanted to have sex with you, they probably wouldn't say anything. They might even ask you if you had seen Rocky Horror, and if you went dressed.

Most of the men, didn't have a clue.

[NicoleScott]

Point of view: if you underdress, you are a crossdresser. If others can't see it/don't know it, you're not a crossdresser.

[Shelly Preston]

If your underdress you are still a crossdresser

The reason people dont get too much credit for it is because it is normally not seen so the public have no idea

(it a bit like if the tree falls in the forest does it still make a noise if no one can hear it )