A question for armchair psychologists

[SweetIonis]

Is a dream where a person is fighting with their father a symptom of some sub-conscious conflict that they may be having with their masculine sense of identity. For example a person who considers himself masculine having very strong feminine desires.

What a about the converse? Is a dream where the person is fighting with their mother a symptom of sub-conscious conflict that maybe going on with their feminine sense of identity?

I know that's pretty heavy stuff, but I think interesting nonetheless.

[suzy1]

I think giving a lot of meaning to dreams is a silly waste of time.
I will now hand over to the members who know what there talking about.

SUZY

[Steph.TS]

I agree with Suzy it's your subconscious it's your mind's understanding of the world, having an outside person trying to read meaning into a dream that understands the world differently then they do will give false meaning then again as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Personally I don't give much stock in what my dreams mean, if they mean anything at all.

[Jorja]

Now you know why they get paid $130-$150 per hour and up. Trying to read meaning into dreams is either an art or a scam. Take it for what it is, a dream.

[SweetIonis]

I agree with Suzy it's your subconscious it's your mind's understanding of the world, having an outside person trying to read meaning into a dream that understands the world differently then they do will give false meaning then again as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

But sometimes a cigar can be more than a cigar. Just ask Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. LMAO!!

You have made a good point. However, dreams can in some cases give us a glimpse into what is going on at a sub-conscious level. Therefore it's not NECESSARILY a waste of time.

So that said, in the spirit of engaging in a fun, interesting exercise, what do you think about that in the context of a person who might have some strong desires that they are attempting to repress?

[Steph.TS]

But sometimes a cigar can be more than a cigar. Just ask Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. LMAO!!

You have made a good point. However, dreams can in some cases give us a glimpse into what is going on at a sub-conscious level. Therefore it's not NECESSARILY a waste of time.

So that said, in the spirit of engaging in a fun, interesting exercise, what do you think about that in the context of a person who might have some strong desires that they are attempting to repress?

I wish I could give feedback, as I've had several dreams related to my feminine side including one where a co-worker told me it was ok to come to work as a woman as everyone knew and were cool with it, and I took the dream as simply a dream. if we are dealing with the dream of you fighting with your father, assuming meaning is to be found the question I'd ask is what does your father mean too you, or what does 'a father' in general mean to you, is he authority, or masculinity, strength, an origin, is he a symbol of displine, perhaps he is provider or caregiver, a teacher, or more abstractly your connection in terms of relationships with other men indicating difficulty relating to other men.

ultimately I can come up with many different things a father means and none of them might fit your understanding of a father, or if this is specific about your father, then I very likely missed a description of how you see your father. if he's an origin, it could be that your fighting your beginnings, but if he's authority then you might be having issues in your life with an authority figure and that's how the mind displayed it, the meanings vary too much for me to attempt to interpret this unfortunately. then again it could just be a dream like the one I had. if you have a therapist bring up the dream and ask what this dream means.

[Wendy_Marie]

Now you know why they get paid $130-$150 per hour and up. Trying to read meaning into dreams is either an art or a scam. Take it for what it is, a dream.

I have made it well known that I am not a big fan of the Psychiatric profession overall and do see alot of the so called methods as pure smoke and mirrors.

Dreams can be anything from just rehashing daily events to pure fantasy...I think the most important question to ask here is How did you perceive it at the time....?

Have you had any discourse with your father which might be considered negative? Internal conflicts manifest themselves into different people in different ways...in the long run you are the best judge of what this dream means to you...No book or PHd type is going to do any better interpreting it for you.

[Inna]

As a highly qualified armchair Phd, (Pathetically hallucinating demented):

Subconscious is a vast landscape of your own life in entirety. Every image and impulse is observed and somehow stored in subconscious, and I mean stuff that you have no idea you had seen. Here opens up the world where difference between conscious memory and subconscious storage of data are as close together as Newtons laws to quantum mechanical world of subatomic particles. Many believe that dreams are a conglomerate of both, emotional state and subconscious event-data combine to form a non logical yet perhaps story telling film. No one knows for sure but many are studying such phenomena and are closer to understanding.

What is known however is that your eye sees nearly everything it is looking at but brain interprets only parts it feels relevant to the situation at hand. Therefore conscious mind is an interpretation of only fragments of what you just observed but subconscious, stores everything you had seen even though you didn't even realized you had seen it. If that makes sense, then to understand subconscious is sort of like trying to physically catch a rainbow in a jar, you know it exists because you see it but as soon you move towards it, it moves away. There is no known logic you can apply to subconscious but rather it is more like a data storage which often acts up bubbling up into conscious to create feelings of self in all different aspects of emotion from euphoria to depression.

[Schatten Lupus]

I would say there may be a recurring theme of people who are transgender to have dreams struggling against some feminine figure their mind generates, I would say for the general public there would be others having similar dreams, but for a wide degree of reasons. As for struggling against your mother or father, there are so many different reasons for that it would be hard to tell. But the meaning of different symbols in dreams will vary from person to person, and what works for one person won't work for another.

[SweetIonis]

if we are dealing with the dream of you fighting with your father, assuming meaning is to be found the question I'd ask is what does your father mean too you, or what does 'a father' in general mean to you, is he authority, or masculinity, strength, an origin, is he a symbol of displine, perhaps he is provider or caregiver, a teacher, or more abstractly your connection in terms of relationships with other men indicating difficulty relating to other men.

ultimately I can come up with many different things a father means and none of them might fit your understanding of a father, or if this is specific about your father, then I very likely missed a description of how you see your father. if he's an origin, it could be that your fighting your beginnings, but if he's authority then you might be having issues in your life with an authority figure and that's how the mind displayed it

I had a feeling you would have an interesting response. With the possible exception of representing relationships to other men, my father was definitely all of those things that you mentioned. However, I can tell you that of those, authority, masculinity, strength, and discipline stand out. That was not only for our family either, because my father was in a prominent position of leadership in our community. Of the possibilities that you laid out, I find the one dealing with having issues with authority to be of interest, because I had not thought about that, and it's quite possible. I am an extremely independent minded person, and I am frequently in some sort of conflict in that regard.



Have you had any discourse with your father which might be considered negative? Internal conflicts manifest themselves into different people in different ways.

My father was a great guy, but he was also and old school disciplinarian. Let me put it to you this way, there is one time in particular that he beat my a**, that I still get mad about when I think about it! LOL!!!! Honestly, we had a great relationship and he was never what I would call abusive. But we were simple black folks from the South, so that's just the way it was. But to be truthful, there was one incident that I am still somewhat bitter about to this day, deep down inside. And I have pretty much repressed those feelings of hostility.



What is known however is that your eye sees nearly everything it is looking at but brain interprets only parts it feels relevant to the situation at hand.

There is no known logic you can apply to subconscious but rather it is more like a data storage which often acts up bubbling up into conscious to create feelings of self in all different aspects of emotion from euphoria to depression.

OK Miss Doctor, my sister all that! I'm gonna nitpick here. First I disagree that the brain interprets anything. I think the brain is merely a tool of interpretation that is used by cognition, and is not capable of interpreting anything on it's own. Second, I think the subconscious mind does work in a logical fashion and logic can be applied to it at times. For instance, the processes involved in repression are quite logical, although they happen at a sub-conscious level. Other than that, I agree with what you have said. :)


I would say there may be a recurring theme of people who are transgender to have dreams struggling against some feminine figure their mind generates,

That's interesting. Why do you say that?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the problem with using dream scenarios is thatdreams are specific to each person...even if it was your dream there is infinite variability in the dream and your recollection of your own dream cannot even be perfected...your waking thoughts influence your recollection of the dream...

it does seem ionis that you enjoy looking at scenarios ....my armchair analysis is that you may be well served to cut to the chase and get down to your own business...

can you lay out your own feelings directly and openly, even toyourself...if you can't than that's your first job...its your life, only you get to live it...
btw, i found this very hard..it took me 30+ years before i got serious..so that's why i bring it up...and btw... i never ever recall having a dream that had even minor tg connotations.. (Which of course made me think that i must not really be trangendered)

[noeleena]

Hi,

Before i looked at any other posts i was going to say you may have been rebeling about some issue concerning your father .
I was thinking along the lines of an athroity figger. not to far off then .

You mother not sure with that. abstract , some things missing in that one.

we do go over things in out minds the subcounuse & some times they can be right other times a mismash = as in mixed up & no sence to it ,

It can allso depend on if you have a stable mind & think things out in a way thats not a make belive . or you allow your mind to wander unstable. or meds are there or being taken. that can change things very strongly .

Of cause if your depressed & meds. streesd out under duress or as said some thing happened years ago. thats been surpressed.

Those i have & do work with i disscount dreams because they are unrelibale . tho when you work with peoples minds you can be surprised. What i try & do is go back as far as i can & even then some things are so deeply hidden are not shown so it depends on the person , & even with that its a wont / need to know , i'v seen meds change a person . 24 / 7..& i mean years
Of cause theres a lot more to it .

The other point is, is one being totaly honist about what they are saying . so you can be lead up the garden path. . & is the person in a good a frame of mind & not away with the faires .or a simple minded person.

...noeleena...

[Hope]

The interpretation of dreams is relatively easy for the person doing the dreaming. Nearly impossible for anyone else.

The critical question is to ask is not "what does this image in my dream mean?" but rather "What was I feeling in this dream?" or "what does this image make me feel like?" or "when was the first time I felt the way I did in this dream?"

Dreams are all about the emotional component the subconscious doesn't quite know how to resolve or express. Figure out the emotional part and the rest is obvious.

[Inna]

OK Miss Doctor, my sister all that! I'm gonna nitpick here. First I disagree that the brain interprets anything. I think the brain is merely a tool of interpretation that is used by cognition, and is not capable of interpreting anything on it's own. Second, I think the subconscious mind does work in a logical fashion and logic can be applied to it at times. For instance, the processes involved in repression are quite logical, although they happen at a sub-conscious level. Other than that, I agree with what you have said. :)

Ok justly so I accept the critique of my statement regarding brain in the whole being responsible for interpretation, I miss spoke technicality, and truly you are right regarding such. Cognitive is responsible for such process but its locality has not been found or rather all the areas of the brain are so to speak involved in cognition, does far known. Subconscious however is not truly yet known of what it is or what processes are present there. In fact it may not be a locality at all, speculations lead to a state rather that physically functioning process. I so far have a tendency of describing it as a all mighty storage of observed images and associated emotions and when suppression occurs, those emotions are just being dropped back to the data base in subconscious but "No Retrieval" label is attached.

This science is as fascinating as Quantum mechanical state of life and cosmology, I am starting to believe that the whole life is much less physically present reality and much more of a dream state it self.

"I dream the dream from which I awake to dream the dream"

[Schatten Lupus]

That's interesting. Why do you say that?
From a perspective of dreams, running from or struggling against someone is often times a struggle against an aspect of oneself. In a sense, struggling against that female part of us that many of us put up a very strong against. I base this on nothing scientific (I really don't see how dreams can be measured scientifically either), but if the common themes of what certain dreams mean have any truth to them, then this might be a common dream shared by most transgendered people. But people do not remember ever dream, and many dreams get combined into one dream, so really my statement isn't something I would think is of any scientific merit to conduct, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a significant percentage of people who have such a dream.

[Inna]

Geeee, I just came back from the mall and there in the cheep jewelery store were "dream-catcher necklaces" you can wear, for like $6bucks. Yet another problem solved, I am sooooooo good at this, sometimes I even surprise my self :)

[ReineD]

I've had several poignant dreams during crucial periods of my life that were easy for me to interpret. In each case, my dreams dealt with unresolved angst I was experiencing at the time and I discovered that my subconscious conjured up images to represent literal words. For example, if you ask someone to write down a dream, the literal translation of what they say may mean more than the mental image the dream invokes.

You should just write down your dreams next time, put the text aside for a few days, and then look at it literally and not figuratively to see if what you read matches any anxieties you may have.

[SweetIonis]

it does seem ionis that you enjoy looking at scenarios ....my armchair analysis is that you may be well served to cut to the chase and get down to your own business...

can you lay out your own feelings directly and openly, even toyourself...if you can't than that's your first job...its your life, only you get to live it...
btw, i found this very hard..it took me 30+ years before i got serious..so that's why i bring it up...and btw... i never ever recall having a dream that had even minor tg connotations.. (Which of course made me think that i must not really be trangendered)

Kaitlyn, there was no attempt to be evasive here. I just thought I would get some interesting responses. And actually I did. To be totally honest, yes, I have had the dream where I was fighting with my father. In the thread I started "Is It True?", I was pretty forthcoming about how I struggled when this aspect of my life started to become prominent. Frankly at that time, although I enjoyed it, another part of me despised what I was doing. During this period, I frequently had the dream that I was fighting with my father. But as I said before, since the last year, I have come to terms with this aspect of my life. And quite frankly, it's a welcome addition. I haven't had such a dream in quite some time. And again, I was just shocked the other day, when I read some papers that described a certain type of TS, that actually fit my description quite well. It didn't disturb me, but I was just surprised because I didn't seriously think that I was so close.

It's like this sweetheart:

LINK -MADONNA:SECRET (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sedhkVMYAuo)

Happiness lies in your own hand
It took me much too long to understand
How it could be
Until you shared your secret with me

Something's comin' over, mmm mmm
Something's comin' over, mmm mmm
Something's comin' over me
My baby's got a secret

You gave me back the paradise
That I thought I lost for good
You helped me find the reasons why
It took me by surprise that you understood
You knew all along
What I never wanted to say
Until I learned to love myself
I was never ever lovin' anybody else


Hi,
Before i looked at any other posts i was going to say you may have been rebeling about some issue concerning your father .
I was thinking along the lines of an athroity figger. not to far off then .

It can allso depend on if you have a stable mind & think things out in a way thats not a make belive . or you allow your mind to wander unstable. or meds are there or being taken. that can change things very strongly .

Of cause if your depressed & meds. streesd out under duress or as said some thing happened years ago. thats been surpressed.


I hadn't thought about the authority figure thing and find that interpretation interesting. Not on any meds, have a stable mind (at least when I'm not horny), and not depressed. I'm satisfied.



The critical question is to ask is not "what does this image in my dream mean?" but rather "What was I feeling in this dream?" or "what does this image make me feel like?" or "when was the first time I felt the way I did in this dream?"

Dreams are all about the emotional component the subconscious doesn't quite know how to resolve or express. Figure out the emotional part and the rest is obvious.

Like I said I used to have that dream quite frequently. And I would always wake up disturbed, because quite frankly, I love my father very much. He was very nice to me, and I have some very fond memories of very good times we spent together. But again, there was some punishment, that left some slight bitter taste as well.



This science is as fascinating as Quantum mechanical state of life and cosmology, I am starting to believe that the whole life is much less physically present reality and much more of a dream state it self.

"I dream the dream from which I awake to dream the dream"

Actually when you think about it, it is a dream in the sense that it's temporary.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i guess ionis what i'm saying is that you are spending alot of time focused on theoretical type things and i hope you are making your own progress on your own thoughts..

what you said about reading a paper that felt like it related to you is EXACTLY what happened to me...after many many years of jerking myself around, i read a paper by dr vitale and it just destroyed me because it was like i was reading about my own life......it was like the bottom fell out of all my self lies...

[SweetIonis]

Kaitlyn, I suppose that I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about how I really feel. I'm just one of those type of people who is drawn to theorizing and understanding theory, not just about this, but about anything I come across that attracts my curiosity.

At one time I just really couldn't accept that this is the way I am. But it's just that after a while, it became apparent that it is something that is not going to go away. I used to be constantly telling myself well it's over, I'm done with it, and it's not going to come back any more. I had to let go, be humble, and just admit it's not like that. I'm this way. It gives me pleasure, so why not enjoy it. Of course, it is complicated, because of the environment, and therefore I want to talk to someone who I feel is expert, who has the experience of understanding what others like me have experienced and how they have dealt with it, so I can understand myself better and so that I can understand better how to proceed.