Are you promoting the sterotypes.. right here in River City?

[kellycan27]

We have all seen the fantasy threads. I want to be treated as a woman, or I fantasize about having sex with another man.. when I am en femme. The members get it, but lest we forget that "guests" have access to viewing the threads here in the m2f cross dressing section. Are these fantasy threads helping to promote the stereotypical way that the gp views cross dressers? :straightface: I am not suggesting that these fantasy threads NOT be posted, just a thought with regards to their repercussions.

Kel

[NathalieX66]

Kelly, you are at the top of the heap here.

You, of all people, should know that there is something going on way beyond the fantasy level here, that there is a sense who you are in your own core self.

I'm happy being me. I'm honest to myself, and my friends. Transition is not an option for me , and yet I have many friends who are on that path. Some have completed the journey. they are the coolest and best friends....they're just not me.

[kellycan27]

Kelly, you are at the top of the heap here.

You, of all people, should know that there is something going on way beyond the fantasy level here, that there is a sense who you are in your own core self.

I'm happy being me. I'm honest to myself, and my friends. Transition is not an option for me , and yet I have many friends who are on that path. theybare the coolest and best friends....they're just not me.

Please re-read what I said.. As a member I get it, as do other members. I was saying that besides "us members" that "John Q public" ( who may not "get it") also has access to some of the sections. This has nothing to do with ts vs cd. But, more about how someone who isn't in the know may perceive these fantasy threads. You seem a bit offended. I wasn't singling out cross dressers, I was asking the question OF cross dressers in THE cross dresser section.

[BiancaEstrella]

If someone is so myopic as to see those types of threads -- as few and far-between as they are -- and miss the plethora of discussions that take place on myriad other subjects, then they probably came here with an agenda and didn't particularly seek to be enlightened in the first place.

[Kittyagain]

Kel, I do see you point. The moderators watch I would guess to make sure the post don't shift too far to a sexual side. It would be a shame if it did. Still, I sure would not like a forum that was cut and pasted like a censored, war time letter.

Kitty

[kellycan27]

If someone is so myopic as to see those types of threads -- as few and far-between as they are -- and miss the plethora of discussions that take place on myriad other subjects, then they probably came here with an agenda and didn't particularly seek to be enlightened in the first place.

LOL.. Iv'e been at this for quite a while and in my trappings I have come across a lot of men and their attitudes. Knowing men as I do, I don't think that many "male guests" visit sites like this out of their desire to be "enlightened". hahahahahahahhahahaha. Few and far between? You might want to catch up on your reading here.

Kittyagain

I actually said that i wasn't suggesting that these type thread not be allowed. I simply suggested that they may give some people the wrong impression... Thus promoting the stereotype.

[BiancaEstrella]

LOL.. Iv'e been at this for quite a while and in my trappings I have come across a lot of men and their attitudes. Knowing men as I do, I don't think that many "male guests" visit sites like this out of their desire to be "enlightened". hahahahahahahhahahaha

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but there are several sites where "admirers" can see far more than is allowed here.

Q to the mods: Can unregistered guests even see attachments?

[msginaadoll]

I do believe those who judge will have just more ammunition to use by some posts. I do also believe that some partners of cds may feel nervous about some posts as well. We are a varied group here so all posts may not apply to all. However that does not mean that some posts may cause others to view our group negatively. I guess I dont see any easy answer unless censorship, such as not allowing people to view posts unless a member.

[kellycan27]

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but there are several sites where "admirers" can see far more than is allowed here.

Q to the mods: Can unregistered guests even see attachments?

No need to ask the mods.. just sign out and re-enter as a guest and you will find that they CAN access this section. Or look at the bottom of the thread and it will tell you how many members or "guests" are currently viewing it.

[DonniDarkness]

This is coming from your resident Fetish kid.

Yes. Simply put the threads such as the ones you describe give a false impression about our community as a whole. It leaves the public armed with enough information to draw a creepy conclusion as to what crossdressers are all about.

These type of threads should be posted in the private GM section. So that way there is some investment from the GP to learn more without being fed information about sexuality among our General Boards.

There are many issues that involve Crossdressing and Transgendered that could serve to educate the public more properly.

The average person who stumbles upon this site looking to understand someone they know who is going thru the phases of TG life could be given the wrong impression from the threads they read on the main boards.

Great Topic Kelly,
-Donni-

PS: from the time i posted this: there were 30 members and 160 UNREGISTERED GUESTS

[kellycan27]

I do believe those who judge will have just more ammunition to use by some posts. I do also believe that some partners of cds may feel nervous about some posts as well. We are a varied group here so all posts may not apply to all. However that does not mean that some posts may cause others to view our group negatively. I guess I dont see any easy answer unless censorship, such as not allowing people to view posts unless a member.

I agree, but my question was "could these type threads" perpetuate the stereotype to the outside observer?

[AllieSF]

I think that each and every person perceives what they will perceive based on how much they know, understand, how sensitive they are, how flexible they are in learning new ideas, etc. I do not think that some of these threads paint a negative picture, in general. Some people may go away with a partial view of who we are, which may be incorrectly negative. In my opinion, that is their problem and they will be in the minority of those that come here and read more than just a few juicy threads. Staying around will expose them to a lot of things that overall will clarify that we are a broad spectrum of people with different tastes and ideas. If we want people to know more about us, why limit what they can see, which could be interpreted in a way as lying/fooling to them about the complete picture. They need to be 18 to be here, whether lying about their age or not. They need to see what is available now to the general public. So, I say leave it as it is. From the site's owner's perspective, I think that they want to let people, visitors, see a lot of the site to encourage them to get a better feel for it and us, and to boost membership if they decide to join. I am not sure if pure visit count by members and non-members is also important to them for any advertising revenue that they generate. When I first joined here I felt that all posts should be members only viewing, but as we know that is not the case. I learned to live with it, so can everyone else. I don't like a lot of censorship when some here says dress this way, act that way.

[PretzelGirl]

The average person who stumbles upon this site looking to understand someone they know who is going thru the phases of TG life could be given the wrong impression from the threads they read on the main boards.

I have said this since I first came here. Many people will say that after you come out to someone (especially a spouse), that you should send them here to learn. I say that you should not do it without discussion ahead of time that frames how you feel and what they may encounter here. While I welcome all kinds of talk (I have learned a lot here), a frightened spouse/girlfriend coming here will likely assume that everything they read will be true about their partner.

So let's look at the first couple of pages in this forum and see what we are talking about the last couple of days and if you would want these to be the first things you want your wife/girlfriend to read after you came out to her and she is likely scared.

1. I love and like woman not men, but i find myself being attracted to passable cds.
2. Changing your image with the spouse.
3. Got balls?
4. Looking into femskin product.
5. Breasts or Vagina?
6. Purged my boy clothes!
7. How girly is your SO?
8. How far do you push what you wear at work?
9. Is it okay to crave being with a man only when I'm dressed as a girl?
10. Piercing belly button.

Now back up and imagine you are dressing and your wife doesn't know. Then she busts you. You calm her down and send her here without any explanation other than it will educate her. Now look through these threads with her scared and uneducated perspective. Are you helping yourself by doing this?

[Kaitlyn26]

Forums are a bad place to go to actually understand a group of people. Most of them are nothing more than a bunch of nerds bickering. I do not think very many people come here for the purpose of gaining knowledge about us, unless they're a registered member with a loved one that cross dresses or are a cross dresser themselves. A personal blog or an article is a much better place to get that information from. I think the general public is aware of the fact that anyone can register and post on a message board, in a few minutes. Maybe the people posting these threads will bring a bad opinion to themselves, but I do not think they will bring a bad opinion to us overall. No more than we already have anyways.

Btw Kelly, if we were promoting the stereotype the majority would have to be participating in each stereotype, for it to be accepted as a true stereotype. The majority is clearly not.

[wino_tg_girl]

Which sections are viewable to guests? When I came here, it was really difficult to view anything without registering and being active. It is the main reason I come here. I will be very disappointed if I find out that this has changed.

[Persephone]

Hmmmmm, Kelly, maybe we are lying to ourselves and maybe we really are closer to being our stereotype than we would like to admit?

Hugs,
Persephone.

[kellycan27]

Btw Kelly, if we were promoting the stereotype the majority would have to be participating in each stereotype, for it to be accepted as a true stereotype. The majority is clearly not.

Really.. so you are saying that in order for someone to be stereotyped, they have to act in a stereotypical manner? nobody actually judges a group, by the actions of a few? Wouldn't it be nice if people really were that enlightened. TBPH I have no clue as to whether or not these sexual fantasy threads would actually reflect on the rest or not. My intention was more food for thought than any kind of recrimination or accusations like saying for a fact that these type threads make us all look bad. It was a question for discussion about the "possibility".

wino_tg please re-read post #9

Barbara I honestly don't know that, nor was my intention to allude to any such thing.. and i am certainly NOT going to open that can of worms :heehee:

:hugs:

Kel

[LilSissyStevie]

So is the idea something like this: "In order to get people to accept us as we are, we must hide the truth about how we really think and feel"?

[BiancaEstrella]

No need to ask the mods.. just sign out and re-enter as a guest and you will find that they CAN access this section. Or look at the bottom of the thread and it will tell you how many members or "guests" are currently viewing it.

Wasn't asking that.

Most of us share our pictures via the "attach file" function and I was curious to know if a non-registered viewer could see said attachments. Most message boards I'm on don't permit guests to see or download attachments.

[Kaitlyn26]

Really.. so you are saying that in order for someone to be stereotyped, they have to act in a stereotypical manner? nobody actually judges a group, by the actions of a few? Wouldn't it be nice if people really were that enlightened. TBPH I have no clue as to whether or not these sexual fantasy threads would actually reflect on the rest or not. My intention was more food for thought than any kind of recrimination or accusations like saying for a fact that these type threads make us all look bad. It was a question for discussion about the "possibility".

wino_tg please re-read post #9

If you want a stereotype to be promoted and accepted as a truth, then yes the majority has to display the characteristic. Here's a thought, stereotypes are sometimes true. The way I read your post was that you're claiming a few members making threads like this could tarnish our image as a whole. I do not think that is the case. I think any informed reader that desires to make a conclusion about us is that sexual fantasies would not be an accurate stereotype. Now, if they made the conclusion that we're often centered around under garments and breast forms, they would be a lot more accurate. Those threads out number fantasy threads by a great number, and are probably an accurate stereotype for the majority. Many other thread topics out number the fantasy topics and I think the only person it reflects on at all, are the people in the threads talking about actual fantasies.

Maybe I'm giving the average person too much credit. Maybe I'm just looking at it from the perspective of what these observers know in their hearts to be true, rather than what they would say aloud if asked about it by a person that obviously does not have a good opinion of us.

Stereotypes are a funny thing because depending on the situation they can either be acceptable or a problem. For example a friend of mine started making fun of a so called "gangster" kid for wearing his pants too low. He tugged his own pants down to the bottom of his butt, took his shirt off to reveal his undershirt or "wife beater", and began to say "Look at me I'm thuggish yo, yea don't **** with me I'm hard." It was meant as a joke and to get the guy to stop trying to intimidate everyone, and it worked very well. Not everyone could've "gone there", and gotten away with it though. Most people will discuss and perpetuate a stereotype in only a socially acceptable way. If society deems that we're not worthy to be respected and treated as everyone else, then we may have problems with it. If they consider us in the light that they should though, no one will widely use the stereotype for fear of be labeled by another stereotype in society, a bigot.

I do not think that a few threads on the internet are going to make a difference. If "one of us" does or says something in the public eye, then yes it could happen. The weight of the task is on those that get real attention, not us. I do not think that the majority of people in this day and age are as decisive about stereotypes as they once were. I think society has seen the err of their ways in the last 30-40 years.

Sorry for the wall of text. Stereotypes are a complicated subject.

[kellycan27]

So is the idea something like this: "In order to get people to accept us as we are, we must hide the truth about how we really think and feel"?

No,nobody is suggesting any type of censorship, nor is anyone saying that anyone should hide their true selves in order to be accepted.Nothing of the sort was ever mentioned. Sometimes it's so hard to get a simple question posed when instead of people reading the lines, they read between them.

[kellycan27]

If you want a stereotype to be promoted and accepted as a truth, then yes the majority has to display the characteristic. Here's a thought, stereotypes are sometimes true. The way I read your post was that you're claiming a few members making threads like this could tarnish our image as a whole. I do not think that is the case. I think any informed reader that desires to make a conclusion about us is that sexual fantasies would not be an accurate stereotype. Now, if they made the conclusion that we're often centered around under garments and breast forms, they would be a lot more accurate. Those threads out number fantasy threads by a great number, and are probably an accurate stereotype for the majority. Many other thread topics out number the fantasy topics and I think the only person it reflects on at all, are the people in the threads talking about actual fantasies.

Maybe I'm giving the average person too much credit. Maybe I'm just looking at it from the perspective of what these observers know in their hearts to be true, rather than what they would say aloud if asked about it by a person that obviously does not have a good opinion of us.

Stereotypes are a funny thing because depending on the situation they can either be acceptable or a problem. For example a friend of mine started making fun of a so called "gangster" kid for wearing his pants too low. He tugged his own pants down to the bottom of his butt, took his shirt off to reveal his undershirt or "wife beater", and began to say "Look at me I'm thuggish yo, yea don't **** with me I'm hard." It was meant as a joke and to get the guy to stop trying to intimidate everyone, and it worked very well. Not everyone could've "gone there", and gotten away with it though. Most people will discuss and perpetuate a stereotype in only a socially acceptable way. If society deems that we're not worthy to be respected and treated as everyone else, then we may have problems with it. If they consider us in the light that they should though, no one will widely use the stereotype for fear of be labeled by another stereotype in society, a bigot.

I do not think that a few threads on the internet are going to make a difference. If "one of us" does or says something in the public eye, then yes it could happen. The weight of the task is on those that get real attention, not us. I do not think that the majority of people in this day and age are as decisive about stereotypes as they once were. I think society has seen the err of their ways in the last 30-40 years.

Sorry for the wall of text. Stereotypes are a complicated subject.

I never "claimed" anything.. I simply asked if there was a "possibility" that when an uneducated "guest" comes in and reads these fantasy threads, "might" that give them the wrong impression? How can you know what's in one's heart? Where do people get "bad impressions" of us? Who said anything about any majority?
Sue brought up a very valid point.. What would an uneducated SO think if she were to come in here and read these threads ( some that sue mentioned) without some kind of explanation before hand?

[Kaitlyn26]

I never "claimed" anything.. I simply asked if there was a "possibility" that when an uneducated "guest" comes in and reads these fantasy threads, "might" that give them the wrong impression? How can you know what's in one's heart? Where do people get "bad impressions" of us? Who said anything about any majority?

They get bad impressions from widespread media coverage. To answer your question bluntly, no I do not think this forum and the threads in it are important enough to perpetuate stereotypes. As I said, in order to perpetuate, what you say and do needs to carry a little more weight than we can in a thread. No one online takes any of it very seriously or always believes that every serious comment or post, is actually serious. The internet carries very little weight overall, unless it's being backed by something in real life. If what we say here was observed in real life either through media coverage, or the majority in public displaying the same trait, then yes it might happen.

[kellycan27]

They get bad impressions from widespread media coverage. To answer your question bluntly, no I do not think this forum and the threads in it are important enough to perpetuate stereotypes.

Finally! All I was asking was for opinions.. you just gave yours. Was that so difficult? I am not debating anything anyone says.. simply asking for OPINIONS!

[Kaitlyn26]

"The way I read your post was that you're claiming a few members making threads like this could tarnish our image as a whole. I do not think that is the case."

:D

"I do not think that a few threads on the internet are going to make a difference. If "one of us" does or says something in the public eye, then yes it could happen. The weight of the task is on those that get real attention, not us."

[kellycan27]

"The way I read your post was that you're claiming a few members making threads like this could tarnish our image as a whole. I do not think that is the case."

:D

"I do not think that a few threads on the internet are going to make a difference. If "one of us" does or says something in the public eye, then yes it could happen. The weight of the task is on those that get real attention, not us."

Once again I never claimed anything, but rather asked if there might be the possibility. other than that... Thank you for your opinion. Oh wait! I did claim that I don't know the answer...:heehee:

[Kaitlyn26]

Once again I never claimed anything, but rather asked if there might be the possibility. other than that... Thank you for your opinion. Oh wait! I did claim that I don't know the answer...:heehee:

Well, now you know my answer. All of it. Like the whole massive thing. That was making my own head hurt. Maybe it will help you postulate your own answer.

[ReineD]

Kel, there are threads here that do in my opinion perpetuate the CD stereotype, but if you look at the section index page right now, there are some, but few compared to the others. To Sue & Donni, I do agree that a frightened new GG potentially will notice the red flag threads way more than the support threads. I did in the beginning and it wasn't easy, even when I saw no evidence of such behavior or beliefs in my SO. I took them all as omens of things to come. We tell the new GGs when they join there are all types of CDs who post here, and they should discuss directly with their SOs anything they read that causes concern.

That said, I do wonder if the views held by society at large of stereotypical CDs are not rather typical. Peole in general don't get their impressions of CDs just from this site. Just google "crossdressers". You'll find a plethora of shops selling fetish & fantasy wear, all manner of sexy lingerie, petticoats, 50s wear, etc, plus personal blogs from CDs showing crotch & butt shots, and CD dating sites filled with people wanting sex, right along side the few support forums such as this one ... not to mention all the racy CD pics on flickr and other sites with comments from all the admirers,

The CDs who hang out here may well be the exception, and not the rule? It's difficult to measure this.



there is something going on way beyond the fantasy level here, that there is a sense who you are in your own core self

It's hard to say. Maybe some closet CDs only give themselves permission to sexualize the CDing, since looking deeper might open up a can of worms, but honestly I think for many others it is just about fantasy and fetish. They're not here for support, but to have fun or maybe meet people and as long as they stay within the rules and don't post anything sexually explicit, and limit their flirting or meet-ups to PMs, they can. Many of our members aren't married.



The average person who stumbles upon this site looking to understand someone they know who is going thru the phases of TG life could be given the wrong impression from the threads they read on the main boards.


But many times the TG phases do begin with the stereotypical stuff. It's not unheard of for a CD to begin with the sexual aspect of the CDing and also progress to a pink fog once he comes out to a partner, with all types of problematic (to the SO) behaviors and attitudes.



Most of us share our pictures via the "attach file" function and I was curious to know if a non-registered viewer could see said attachments. Most message boards I'm on don't permit guests to see or download attachments.

No, the public cannot see attachments in the public sections. Do find a thread with an attached pic in it, and then log out and look at the same thread. You'll see a link that will take you to a "no permission" page.

[Kate T]

I think the original poster had a very valid point. We moan and groan about a "lack of acceptance" by the mainstream community and yet the public face (i.e. threads on public accessible sections of the forums) are not always the sort of thing I would want my wife, family or children to read.

I think this debate is also along similar lines to one in Loved Ones on Facebook issues. We need to be mindful of what is "publically" readable and what is not. There are some things that are personal and I talk about with my friends and family, I do not want eavesdroppers!

Yes I do think we sometimes exacerbate the perception. Perhaps we should have a thread devoted to education of the general public, sort of like an open forum for guests to pose a question and members can answer?

[Tina B.]

I don't know, I went through a lot of sites to find this one, and believe me, by the time you get here you have to think we are all a lot of sexual perverts looking to sell our body's to the first guy that comes along. Then you get here and find a lot of "guy" in dresses talking about make up and relationships, and real things that nothing to do with sex, then when sex does come up, you have a lot of people jumping up real fast to claim to be straight, while a few claim to be bi, or gay, just like in the real world. After all with gender confusion, there must come a certain amount of sexual confusion as well, at least for some. Most of us must have spent at least a little of our youth trying to figure out if this made us gay or not, I know I did. Besides I never felt this site was about visitors, but about the members, and that as a whole who we are, just like the rest of the world we come in all colors, and all sides of the sexual spectrum, there is no reason to hide it from the world, they are that way too!

[Karren H]

Maybe fantasy posts should come with a disclaimer? Lol. My guess is "guests" are not ones that need their view of us changed... Its the people who don't come here.... It's the people who see us portrayed as perverts on COPs, the news and on TV shows they just happened to be watching. I can't imagine Billy Bob saying "I think I'll go visit some crossdressing forums to better understand who they are"?? Yeah right. Its more how we behave in public forums. Like FaceBook! I can't count the number of friendship requests I've declined because they portray the wrong image of what I think crossdressing is! Yeah call me judgmental but that's the way I feel and I'm not apologizing for that..

[Maria2004]

The real question about baiting other CDs and TGs with these stupid type of questions. The general public won't just stumble across this forum without typing in key search words or questions relating, and whatever type if impression they get is on them, not us.

[kimdl93]

I think it all depends on the "guest". Some of the visitors are undoubtedly vicariously seeking sexual thrills, but I suspect a good number are CDs or Transgendered individuals seeking information, not gratification. Either way, I suspect they bring their personal biases with them, and like most people, filter out anything that doesn't fit with their personal preferences or prejudices.

[Aprilrain]

My guess is "guests" are not ones that need their view of us changed... Its the people who don't come here.... It's the people who see us portrayed as perverts on COPs, the news and on TV shows they just happened to be watching. I can't imagine Billy Bob saying "I think I'll go visit some crossdressing forums to better understand who they are"?? Yeah right.

Exactly! My guess is 99% of the members AND guests ARE CD/TG/TS or their loved ones. most people don't bother to educate themselves about things that are important in their lives let alone something as esoteric and "rare" as a TG person.

[Maria2004]

I think it all depends on the "guest". Some of the visitors are undoubtedly vicariously seeking sexual thrills,

Yes Kim, it's vicarious, which is why I prefer to get dressed and step out my front door in to the light of day and stand before John and Jane Q public and show them, their impression has been overwhelmingly positive and kind, the exceptions aren't even worth mentioning.

[PretzelGirl]

Which sections are viewable to guests? When I came here, it was really difficult to view anything without registering and being active. It is the main reason I come here. I will be very disappointed if I find out that this has changed.

The forums that are open to guests are Male-to-Female Crossdressers, Transmasculine, Transsexual, and Upcoming Events. Guests can read all of these and obviously not respond.


No, the public cannot see attachments in the public sections. Do find a thread with an attached pic in it, and then log out and look at the same thread. You'll see a link that will take you to a "no permission" page.

I was already looking at this in another browser when I came upon your answer (and I did flush my history and temp files first). One thing I did find is that pictures embedded in a signature do show up. But also you can log out, go to the "Thank god I was not in this video" thread and go to post #4. This picture shows up. So is that a difference between embedding and attaching?

[Karren H]

And all alone I always thought that the trouble .... With a capital T, That rymes with P and stands for Pool??

[NicoleScott]

The OP's question "Are you promoting the stereotypes?" No. I'm not promoting them. Whatever a person takes away from their visit here is beyond my control. Is this a suport site for crossdressers, friends, and family, or a site with a mission to promote general population acceptance of crossdressing? I'm here to read and discuss crossdressing-related issues of particular interest to me.

[Maria2004]

And all alone I always thought that the trouble .... With a capital T, That rymes with P and stands for Pool??

Once you're Really in the know, you can see an h to the right of the P :battingeyelashes:

[Kaitlyn26]

And all alone I always thought that the trouble .... With a capital T, That rymes with P and stands for Pool??

I was not aware that a single letter could rhyme.

[LilSissyStevie]

No,nobody is suggesting any type of censorship, nor is anyone saying that anyone should hide their true selves in order to be accepted.Nothing of the sort was ever mentioned. Sometimes it's so hard to get a simple question posed when instead of people reading the lines, they read between them.

OK, if you are asking if engaging in stereotypical crossdresser behavior results in reinforcing crossdresser stereotypes, then my uneducated guess would be: Yes it does, but so what?

[Schatten Lupus]

Are these fantasy threads helping to promote the stereotypical way that the gp views cross dressers? I am not suggesting that these fantasy threads NOT be posted, just a thought with regards to their repercussions.
Not too mention that some will see such threads, and see it as an enforcer that cross dressers are gay. It may not be true, but to an outsider when they see that a cross dresser is attracted to men, even if only dressed, they will think they are gay, bi, or trying to deceive straight men. People will see what they want or expect to see, and whether a guest is an admirer, critic, or someone curious, such threads will stick out like a neon sign.

[Lorileah]

I simply asked if there was a "possibility" that when an uneducated "guest" comes in and reads these fantasy threads, "might" that give them the wrong impression? How can you know what's in one's heart? Where do people get "bad impressions" of us? Who said anything about any majority?



Yes absolutely. There are many things here that promote stereotypes. I probably fit a few as I like heels and (short) skirts. There are the I like to do "girl" things when dressed, no clue what makes up a "girl" thing and I have pointed that out. We are just as bad holding stereotypes as any. Cleaning -fem Building a house -masc. Driving a pink car-fem. Passive roles- fem. You can go on and on. The sexual thing is just the tip.

On the up side though, it doesn't get too graphic here :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

And all alone I always thought that the trouble .... With a capital T, That rymes with P and stands for Pool??

one of my favorite movie songs... i stop watching the movie after the song !

[Noemi]

One can discuss the hypothetical forever. Who knows what the guests are thinking. Perhaps you could address them directly and get some feedback. As for polling opinions....Being trans gendered is a broad spectrum. There are those males who like to dress as a woman, but do not want to have sex or fantasize about having sex with men. Than there are those genetic males among us who do have sex with men, and in our fantasies usually play the role of the woman. Kelly, you know this, most likely, already.
I for one fall into the later category. I am more woman than I am man, but still live as a man for now....
If a guest reads my post, it should help them a bit, and hey being of use is what it is all about.

[Karren H]

one of my favorite movie songs... i stop watching the movie after the song !

Maybe we need to start a marching band? Worked in the movie! Kind of

[kellycan27]

[QUOTE=Maria2004;2590073]The real question about baiting other CDs and TGs with these stupid type of questions. The general public won't just stumble across this forum without typing in key search words or questions relating, and whatever type if impression they get is on them, not us.[/QUOTE

Actually that wasn't the real question... The real question was clearly stated in the OP and re-stated throughout the thread. Obviously people's impressions do affect us.. why else would so many people in so many threads try and dispel the myths? Why else are there so many threads about societies acceptance of us? Why do so many stay closeted? Because they worry about other people's impressions, whether it be strangers, employers, loved ones or friends.... we've seen this hundreds of times!


Scarlet Rose

You say no to the OP, but then you say that purely fantasy threads should be stomped on. why? Might you be thinking that those types of threads might reflect badly on us or give someone a false impression? This is a support site but if someone from the outside learns something we're better off for it. Maria thinks that this question was stupid and baiting, and basically F anyone who doesn't understand..... Maybe this thread and most of the reply's when read by a guest or two might help them understand us a little better. Much more so than having a chip on your shoulder that says F the world and getting your panties in bunch over a simple question. I think that attempting to educate the public is our job, and would serve us well even if it's one person at a time in one thread at a time.

[kellycan27]

Scarlet Rose

You say no to the OP, but then you say that purely fantasy threads should be stomped on. why? Might you be thinking that those types of threads might reflect badly on us or give someone a false impression?

Yes. If it is a TRUE impression and reflects badly on the subject then that can't be helped. If someone speculates about "What would it feel like if..." then that is all part of what it is about. But if it is pure fantasy put across as a real event then it gives a FALSE impression of what really goes on and that isn't helpful to anyone. Stories that are depicted as reality and are obviously some fantasy are obvious to us, but not to someone trying to understand the subject.[/QUOTE]

How does someone who is trying to understand going to know what's real and what's fantasy? Say for instance someone says.. I often fantasize about having sex with a man when dressed. How does one know if it is purely a fantasy, or something they would actually like to do?

[ReineD]

If someone speculates about "What would it feel like if..." then that is all part of what it is about. But if it is pure fantasy ...

I agree with this. I've seen stories here posted as if they were the truth that were highly questionable, and looked as if they belonged in a fantasy forum. But, they weren't breaking the rules, so ......

I also dislike the threads that seem to ask innocent enough questions, but it is clear by the way they are worded that the intent is to encourage fantasy from others (all within the rules, of course), for the sole purpose of titillation. You know, like someone who has a fetish for breasts and repeatedly asks questions about how women unbutton their blouses in such a way as to offer an optimal view of the voluptuousness enclosed within ..... you get the point. Or, asking questions like "what is your ideal fantasy about men", or "what is the ideal way you'd be treated as a woman, wouldn't you love it IF ...."

This place is primarily a support forum, not a mild erotica site, but members being human also love to jump in and fantasize too (within the rules of course). You just can't stop people since the bottom line is, no one knows for sure whether the question asked is a real sticking point for the OP, or if it is idle fantasy.

The best defense in threads like this is to go in and answer the questions in a nonsensical, real way and just not play along with the fantasy. IMO.

I'm not suggesting we should have a separate fantasy section (Tamara would kill me :p), but it would be a way to keep the MtF section support oriented. On the other hand, if we did have such a section (and it would need to have high traffic, else what's the point of posting fantasy), I wonder how many people would bother posting in the other sections. lol This place might soon turn into one of those "other" internet sites. I can also just imagine the modding nightmare such a section might be.

[Pythos]

I in no way think those fantasy threads do anything positive toward the image of CDers. At the same time the threads concerning fake body parts, or other items that "realistically function" (eeeek), do all that great for us.

I am certainly one that believes images can be tarnished by a few. I am a living example of it.

Before Tuesday, April 20, 1999, my subculture was connected (wrongly) with dark brooding, depressed kids, that all wore black, and possibly were connected with devil worship (toddle).

Then after that date, my subculture, which was never as strong as say the hip hoppers, rappers, and gang banger cultures, was forever tarnished with a completely undeserved lable, thanks to two kids who only LOOKED, goth.

That label applied to us was "murder" "terrorist", and so on. It was completely wrong, and many of us dived for saftey into the world of conformity. Some of us were beaten, on of us litterally to a pulp. Why? Because two screwed up kids, who were not connected to the Goth subculture except in their clothing, decided to exact revenge upon their classmates.

What really damaged the subculture, was complete and utter ignorance on the part of the police and media (both of which 10 years after the event, APOLOGIZED for not correctly identifying those two as NEO NAZIS (one had red laces in his boots, which is a neo nazi symbol...as were the multiple Swastikas carved into the coffee table of the ever so proper parents, that were oblivious of the arsenal forming in their garage.)

The apology fell on deaf ears, most likely due to the timing of the airing of said apology.

Evidence of the damage to my subculture is still evident. My mother is a prime example. She accused me of being in a group that goes around shooting schools, and bombing kids. If one actually did their research they would see the only violent act that was enough to generate a police report directly relating Goths IS the Columbine incident. Gang bangers, hip hoppers, and thugs are perfectly able to be out and about as they are, whereas Goths are still looked down upon.

People like my mother, who do not actually do research on stuff, are the type that perpetuate inaccurate myths about groups of people. She would look at some of the threads here, and not even pay attention to what I have posted, and my responses, and proceed to accuse me of wanting those same fantasies.

Some people are truly ignorant. Adding more ammo for their ignorance only hurts.

[Maria2004]

Actually that wasn't the real question...

There was no real question to begin with, how much intelligence does it
take to realize if you are real, you're real. "Sapere aude" o_O

[Badtranny]

I think that attempting to educate the public is our job, and would serve us well even if it's one person at a time in one thread at a time.

Gosh Kellz, I'm totally crushing on you right now!

[kellycan27]

I think that is getting away from the point of your original question but I will answer that too. Whether they would or not is going to vary from person to person. But the fact that they fantasize about it could be relevant and an honest portrayal of the subject of crossdressing. Even if it is a minority subsection of it. Like for example many CDs might fantasize about wearing a wedding dress. A thread..."Do you ever fantasize about wearing a wedding dress" is relevant to the subject, it is honest, if it gets a lot of answers may reassure someone that they are not alone in their thoughts. If someone posts "Have you ever thought about dressing up as a woman and robbing a bank" then (hopefully) the answers will show that this isn't very common so people will be educated accordingly.
And no, I suppose no-one can tell if the person asking the question is wanting reassurance, is going to try it for real, or just amusing themselves. However a fantasy is an unfullfilled desire after all. What stops people fullfilling them is guilt, lack of opportunity and the law.

ok... thank you for your opinion.

[BlondeFarrah]

I would like to know how many cds started dressing up without any fantasy relationed with some female stereotype.

[Pythos]

I put on my first feminine items with absolutely no fantasies, I just was curious how the stuff felt to wear. For the most part I don't fantasize about some fem model, except perhaps Abby Schuito, or Seleen from UnderWorld. :P Now that does not mean my styles have no models they are based off of. Ironically many are based off male Japanese music artists. LOL

[Loretta]

"guest" is so formal.
I call them "Lurkers".

[LeaP]

They probably do promote stereotypes for some. I get concerned when I see some of the fantasy threads, thinking of the conclusions that might be drawn. I was concerned enough to take a significant amount of time before joining the site. As I said in my intro - things are pretty mainline here (meaning non-sexualized) - but though there is less than other sites, there was enough to give me pause. I'm just not interested in that sort of content. In the end I decided it was a distraction at the margins as there's nothing explicit and fantasy content doesn't come remotely close to being predominant. There's lots of grey to consider when it comes to appropriate content, given the range of TG identity and expression, but that's what moderators are for. And, of course, I represent only one set of trans dimensions, choices, and views out of many possible.

Lea

[StarrOfDelite]

Taken in its entirety, this forum is so Vanilla that I cannot imagine any hard core ****** coming here to get his jollies, not unless he's entirely ignorant about the existence of Literotica and Fictionmania with their thousands of graphic fantasies about Submissives and Dommes, Forced Transformations, Jailhouse rapes, Blushing Transgendered Brides, et cetera.

I personally don't pay any attention to the fantasy threads, but I think they have their uses, particularly if they cause people to start analyzing why they have those fantasies in context with their need to crossdress. If the prose used to describe the fantasy is within the limits of good taste, then I think such fantasies are part of the crossdressing experience to many sincere members of this forum. I am skeptical the average GG SO or family member is going to be horrified by such fantasies, anyway, it's not a sine qua non that one has to be a crossdresser in order to have kinky sexual daydreams.

edit p.s. I can't believe the computer was programmed to delete "W*nk*r" but it does prove my point that it's pretty hard to write anything which would appeal to a real pervert on the forum.

[StarrOfDelite]

I think your reply is very interesting. I had never before thought of Goths as being a repressed and vilified minority, but I can see your point. I remember a situation with which I dealt peripherally several years ago when the mother of a student filed a grievance because she felt her son was being singled out for punishment by a school principal, and remember thinking based on a cursory reading of the facts that she had a pretty good case.

Since we're speaking of stereotypes, can I ask you how you feel about the character Abby Sciutto on NCIS? Without doing any research I'd be willing to bet that she is adored by most of America, but that doesn't mean that she's adored by he real life Goth community.




I in no way think those fantasy threads do anything positive toward the image of CDers. At the same time the threads concerning fake body parts, or other items that "realistically function" (eeeek), do all that great for us.

I am certainly one that believes images can be tarnished by a few. I am a living example of it.

Before Tuesday, April 20, 1999, my subculture was connected (wrongly) with dark brooding, depressed kids, that all wore black, and possibly were connected with devil worship (toddle).

Then after that date, my subculture, which was never as strong as say the hip hoppers, rappers, and gang banger cultures, was forever tarnished with a completely undeserved lable, thanks to two kids who only LOOKED, goth.

That label applied to us was "murder" "terrorist", and so on. It was completely wrong, and many of us dived for saftey into the world of conformity. Some of us were beaten, on of us litterally to a pulp. Why? Because two screwed up kids, who were not connected to the Goth subculture except in their clothing, decided to exact revenge upon their classmates.

What really damaged the subculture, was complete and utter ignorance on the part of the police and media (both of which 10 years after the event, APOLOGIZED for not correctly identifying those two as NEO NAZIS (one had red laces in his boots, which is a neo nazi symbol...as were the multiple Swastikas carved into the coffee table of the ever so proper parents, that were oblivious of the arsenal forming in their garage.)

The apology fell on deaf ears, most likely due to the timing of the airing of said apology.

Evidence of the damage to my subculture is still evident. My mother is a prime example. She accused me of being in a group that goes around shooting schools, and bombing kids. If one actually did their research they would see the only violent act that was enough to generate a police report directly relating Goths IS the Columbine incident. Gang bangers, hip hoppers, and thugs are perfectly able to be out and about as they are, whereas Goths are still looked down upon.

People like my mother, who do not actually do research on stuff, are the type that perpetuate inaccurate myths about groups of people. She would look at some of the threads here, and not even pay attention to what I have posted, and my responses, and proceed to accuse me of wanting those same fantasies.

Some people are truly ignorant. Adding more ammo for their ignorance only hurts.

[3bugs]

We have all seen the fantasy threads. I want to be treated as a woman, or I fantasize about having sex with another man.. when I am en femme. The members get it, but lest we forget that "guests" have access to viewing the threads here in the m2f cross dressing section. Are these fantasy threads helping to promote the stereotypical way that the gp views cross dressers? :straightface: I am not suggesting that these fantasy threads NOT be posted, just a thought with regards to their repercussions.

Kel

In my opinion, they do promote stereotypes. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.

[ReineD]

I am skeptical the average GG SO or family member is going to be horrified by such fantasies

You'd be surprised!

The fantasy threads are mild in themselves, but when a wife reads them and transposes her husband's voice, they take on a whole new meaning.

[Aprilrain]

[QUOTE=3bugs;. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.[/QUOTE]

this made me laugh, how true!

[Pythos]

Since we're speaking of stereotypes, can I ask you how you feel about the character Abby Sciutto on NCIS? Without doing any research I'd be willing to bet that she is adored by most of America, but that doesn't mean that she's adored by he real life Goth community.


As with most things Abbey is approached in many ways. There are those that absolutely hate her character due to how perky she is. These people are usually the type that are miserable in their lives any ways, with my experience.

Abby falls into the category (if there are any) of Perky Goth, they do exist, I can be counted as one.

Overall, Abbey is very well accepted and adored in the goth comunity, for those that watch NCIS. A lot of Goths do not watch television for the most part so many don't even know who she, or Gibbs, or Dinozzo, McGee, or Ziva (as can be seen, I do indeed watch the show, and not just for the mistress of pharensics).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

In my opinion, they do promote stereotypes. They also undermine the "cross-dressers are heterosexual men, we aren't sure why they dress, but it has nothing to do with sex!" message spouted in much of the literature written for the wives of cross-dressers.

It undermines that message because the message is not true..:straightface:

pythos.. i never truly considered how the goth culture was smeared by those events... i'm sorry

i never felt that way btw...but your point illustrates something that all minorities deal with...small subsets of a group and misinformation can result in easy to digest, wrong, and hurtful stereotypes...

the only thing i've ever blamed goth subculture for was ugly clothes..:devil::hugs:.... yes that was a devil hug...

[ReineD]

It undermines that message because the message is not true..:straightface:

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?159551-What-are-truly-hetero)? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?159551-What-are-truly-hetero)? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

It's not true that there is no sexual component to crossdressing...sorry for confusion...

i understand this is a general statement, and there are people that say there is no sexual component even to the dressing part..

[Starling]

Thanks for starting this thread, Kel. I'm not sure how reading the more graphic and personal posts might affect the general public. I'm sure some are here for jollies, and some come to reinforce their fear and hatred; but I like to think most of them come hoping for accurate information and greater self-knowledge. I am a dreamer...

:daydreaming: Lallie

[Mikaela]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things. Panty color, fake latex vaginas, fantasies with men, etc are neither interesting to me or helpful to the guests or people stumbling here looking for support or who want to give us the opportunity to not be perverts. It obviously makes no difference for those coming here to be titillated or who are already close minded.

And might I remind people that if you are wearing blinders because other sites show more (like Flickr), keep in mind that most porn is of a different nature than us. If that is all it would take, I would not have seen a pervert pull his junk out at the club last weekend and try to touch a ts girl between the legs (she had on jeans). We dont need to be naked or in lingerie to turn someone on.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things. Panty color, fake latex vaginas, fantasies with men, etc are neither interesting to me or helpful to the guests or people stumbling here looking for support or who want to give us the opportunity to not be perverts. It obviously makes no difference for those coming here to be titillated or who are already close minded.

And might I remind people that if you are wearing blinders because other sites show more (like Flickr), keep in mind that most porn is of a different nature than us. If that is all it would take, I would not have seen a pervert pull his junk out at the club last weekend and try to touch a ts girl between the legs (she had on jeans). We dont need to be naked or in lingerie to turn someone on.

i can't help but comment that on another thread you go on about how you relate more to transsexuals, but that you avoid some because they have an attitude that they are better than you... which is the same attitude you exhibit towards crossdressers that don't share you "need" for more full feminization... you are doing the same thing those transsexuals are doing..... panty color is uninteresting to you, yet you are "into" blue wigs...hmmm

[Aprilrain]

It's not true they are hetero, or it's not true they dress for sexual gratification?

Have you seen this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?159551-What-are-truly-hetero)? Five pages of hetero CDs. They can't all be lying. Whether or not it is still sexual is, I think, a function of length of time dressed and also age.

No it's not likely that they are ALL lieing but most definitely some are. It's very difficult "being a man" and all that implys AND having these feminine thoughts and feelings, it's a dichotomy that most CDers struggle with. To then also even allow that maybe you think about what it would be like to be a girl with a guy is WAY beyond to much to handle. I was very homophobic before I started to transition. It was a defense mechanism, albeit an ill conceived and ineffective one but it was the best I could do.

[Mikaela]

i can't help but comment...

Sure you can refrain. I stated an opinion that those things are not helpful to me or necessarily positive for an impression to a public that already marginalizes us. You don't agree with my opinion (fine, I'm not debating it), so you imply I'm a hypocrite for an unrelated opinion to undermine this one? Lame.


that on another thread you go on about how you relate more to transsexuals, but that you avoid some because they have an attitude that they are better than you...

True, still unrelated to the thread....


which is the same attitude you exhibit towards crossdressers that don't share you "need" for more full feminization... you are doing the same thing those transsexuals are doing.....

I fully admitted in that thread that it was a bias I was aware of and I don't have a problem with fetishists as people- I have several friends at club who are. It's not that I'm better, it's just not totally compatible with my needs as a CD or a more normal potential mainstream interaction in girl mode, but that's not the point of this thread or opinion! It also doesn't affect my interaction with them in the context of the night club or on here, so what does it matter?

I don't have a need for full feminization. I want my femme self to be as good as possible, but that won't come with hormones, surgery, or anything else that some get. Other than breast forms, which are now smaller, I don't wear any pads or shapers, either. It doesn't make me better, it just makes me me. Sorry I want to present as a female and not as a man in a dress. I'm sure there is no one else on here that feels the same way </sarcasm>


panty color is uninteresting to you, yet you are "into" blue wigs...hmmm
I don't fetishize what I do. Changing my brain mode to be female and go out is not sexual for me, so no, underwear conversations are not my cup of tea. I might match my panties to my bra, but for me, my panties are for being under my clothes, holding in my stuff, and other reasons of propriety, not because they go in my butt crack, are frilly or silky, or whatever.

Not sure where the idea that I am into blue wigs thing came from. I've worn yellow/pink glow extensions for a black light club in which I was about as below the radar as possible all things considering. I wore a pink wig one night when the club closed (so while drunk) at the behest of my g/f who had picked it up from the club hostess, who had borrowed it from the SO for a Pink Event a week prior (whew). I wore the pink wig in the pic in my wall thread when she did my makeup one night because I was in a pink tshirt, but that wasn't for going out. So... not sure where blue wigs and being "into them" came from. Generally speaking, my appearance is looking like a soccer mom.

And again, even if I was into blue wigs, so? In the context of this thread, I'm not making threads about them or promoting colored hair (oh no!) for cross dressers to make us look bad since that is not part of the negative stereotype. My girlfriend has bright magenta/cranberry colored hair every day, so what does that mean? hmmmm!?!

[LeaP]

My opinion is that I don't like seeing them as it just furthers my own shame at what I am because it is these perceptions that have driven us into the closets we live in. I wouldn't take them away for the people that 'need' them, but I could do with a re-org of the forums/subforums to separate things.

I agree completely.

Lea

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i knew you wouldnt like it mikaela...i am ok having a pointed discussion in an honest way.. i am just saying what i feel as well..
your earlier comment popped into my head as i followed this thread....

your last sentence shows the rabbit hole...lots of people actually would feel wearing magenta hair somehow promotes a bad stereotype...conformity is cherished by a large portion of our society.. but both you and I would agree that is just silly..magenta hair looks cool... but lots of people would look down on you for it, and make assumptions about you for it..(similar to a goth perhaps, or giant piercings, or a mohawk)... they look down on you for it..

in the context of this thread...where there is a question about "certain" posts adding to stereotypes
by separating yourself out from someone that is into fetishes... you are just doing to the same thing as the jerk that looks down on someone for having crazy hair.... by saying THEIR appearance/comments/thoughts somehow make people look down on you more, you are pointing a finger at THEM, and showing your disapproval .. you are separating out your behaviour, saying i'm not like them, so don't disapprove of ME because of THEM....you can't get around this by saying you admit your bias...your bias IS the issue..

and this s the same thing you complained TS people do in another thread...perhaps that comment in another thread popped into my head.. and as i've read this thread frankly it really bugs me that there is this whole group of "acceptable" crossdressers basically crapping all over the "unacceptable" crossdressers... and i have seen tons of crossdressers whine about feeling there is some kind of pecking order and feeling dissed by transsexuals... (btw i'm not denying this happens...but i don't like that either)

[TxKimberly]

My first thought is "Now hold on, Kelly cant be old enough to get the reference "right here in River City!"
Now trying to move beyond that little bit of surprise and on to the actual substance of your post . . . .
There are so many people on this forum that you will probably find someone here that likes just about anything. Some people are going to like things that disgust others and some folks are going to like things that make the rest of us go "What the hell is with THAT?!" Since the forum IS a support forum and is open to all, it's just something that you have to accept with a grain of salt.

[MsJanessa]

There are two types of threads that don't interest me--the first are the so-called panty threads (What color are your favorite panties and that type of thing) and the second are the so-called sexual fantasy threads---don't get me wrong--I certainly am not offended by them, just find them a trifle boring---now I do find real live stories about encounters very interesting--but make believe? No

[StarrOfDelite]

You'd be surprised!

The fantasy threads are mild in themselves, but when a wife reads them and transposes her husband's voice, they take on a whole new meaning.

The point I was trying to make, unsuccessfully, was that the GG SO or moms, pops, children, et cetera, undoubtedly all have active sexual fantasy lives. Whether the fantasies are about dating the entire Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad, fornicating with livestock, tormenting one's enemies, or wearing women's clothing, everybody's got at least one they daydream about. Fantasizing is like masturbation, 99% do it, and 1% are liars. I can agree that a wife reading about forced feminization, even in the mild form in which it is discussed on the forum, might be a jarring experience.

By comparison: If a devout Christian, Jew or Muslim was advised by a loved one that he/she was convinced to be an Atheist, wouldn't reading scientific and historic articles questioning the existence of an historical Jesus or Moses on an Atheist forum be equally upsetting? Or if a convinced Atheist was told by a loved one that he/she had become a member of a religious cult wouldn't reading about the miracles performed by he cult leader be upsetting?

[kellycan27]

My first thought is "Now hold on, Kelly cant be old enough to get the reference "right here in River City!"
Now trying to move beyond that little bit of surprise and on to the actual substance of your post . . . .
There are so many people on this forum that you will probably find someone here that likes just about anything. Some people are going to like things that disgust others and some folks are going to like things that make the rest of us go "What the hell is with THAT?!" Since the forum IS a support forum and is open to all, it's just something that you have to accept with a grain of salt.

Kim
I don't know where the expression originated, but my mom and dad used to say it to eachother now and then, and it would make them laugh.. like there was some hidden meaning that I wasn't privy too. For example... my mom's pretty fiesty and she
would often use swear words to get her point across, and my dad would respond with.. imagine, someone talking that that.......... "right here in river city". I always thought that "river city" meant our house.

[AllieSF]

Kelly,

The "Right here in River City" phrase is from a famous song in an old musical movie, that at the moment I cannot remember the name of. The theme of the song, which I also do not fully remember, was that what was happening could happen, or was happening, right here in own own city. Kinda like reading about San Francisco's extreme liberalism and saying that that could happen right here in our little central Iowa farm town. I am sure someone will fill in the details and correct any of my incorrect memories.

[kellycan27]

The point I was trying to make, unsuccessfully, was that the GG SO or moms, pops, children, et cetera, undoubtedly all have active sexual fantasy lives. Whether the fantasies are about dating the entire Dallas Cowboys cheerleading squad, fornicating with livestock, tormenting one's enemies, or wearing women's clothing, everybody's got at least one they daydream about. Fantasizing is like masturbation, 99% do it, and 1% are liars. I can agree that a wife reading about forced feminization, even in the mild form in which it is discussed on the forum, might be a jarring experience.

By comparison: If a devout Christian, Jew or Muslim was advised by a loved one that he/she was convinced to be an Atheist, wouldn't reading scientific and historic articles questioning the existence of an historical Jesus or Moses on an Atheist forum be equally upsetting? Or if a convinced Atheist was told by a loved one that he/she had become a member of a religious cult wouldn't reading about the miracles performed by he cult leader be upsetting?

Starr, I am not debating your point nor your opinion, and i agree that everyone has fantasies, but I think that people being people.. there's even a line drawn somewhere even in fantasy world. I think that most people would roll their eyes at the guy who had the fantasy of doing the whole Dallas Cowboy cheer leading squad, and might think that it's more or less a "normal" male fantasy, but what if it was a cross dresser's fantasy to have sex with the entire Dallas Cowboy football team?

[Kaitlyn26]

Starr, I am not debating your point nor your opinion, and i agree that everyone has fantasies, but I think that people being people.. there's even a line drawn somewhere even in fantasy world. I think that most people would roll their eyes at the guy who had the fantasy of doing the whole Dallas Cowboy cheer leading squad, and might think that it's more or less a "normal" male fantasy, but what if it was a cross dresser's fantasy to have sex with the entire Dallas Cowboy football team? :heehee:

They would probably accept him as a homosexual male, and maybe giggle a bit. Nothing too bad would happen. The more ignorant the person being told, the worse the fallout would be.

[kellycan27]

They would probably accept him as a homosexual male, and maybe giggle a bit. Nothing too bad would happen. The more ignorant the person being told, the worse the fallout would be.

Wasn't the point of the OP about what the "uneducated" ( you use "ignorant" ) person might think after seeing these fantasies? As you say... some might just see and accept him as being a gay male, and nothing bad would happen, but he's cross dressed, so might that perpetuate the myth that cross dressing= gay, and isn't people thinking that cross dressers are gay the bane of the cross dresser's lives for a lot? Whether there is fallout or not... it's the perception that most cross dressers have an issue with.

[Eryn]

We have such a wide range of interests that nobody embraces all of them. I'm a CDer, not inclined to transition, not interested in fetish wear, cosplay, or wearing a bra in male mode. Other are interested in such things and it is part of our general attitude of acceptance that discussion of all these things is allowed. Not allowing such discussion would be an implication that something is wrong with them.

Frankly, we don't really have much of a public image to maintain. Most who go out fly under the radar. Those who stay at home aren't seen. We're invisible to society mostly by our own choice.

[kellycan27]

Kelly,

The "Right here in River City" phrase is from a famous song in an old musical movie, that at the moment I cannot remember the name of. The theme of the song, which I also do not fully remember, was that what was happening could happen, or was happening, right here in own own city. Kinda like reading about San Francisco's extreme liberalism and saying that that could happen right here in our little central Iowa farm town. I am sure someone will fill in the details and correct any of my incorrect memories.

I called my mom.. It was "The Music Man". When I asked, she laughed and still wouldn't reveal the significance.

[Kaitlyn26]

Wasn't the point of the OP about what the "uneducated" ( you use "ignorant" ) person might think after seeing these fantasies? As you say... some might just see and accept him as being a gay male, and nothing bad would happen, but he's cross dressed, so might that perpetuate the myth that cross dressing= gay, and isn't people thinking that cross dressers are gay the bane of the cross dresser's lives for a lot? Whether there is fallout or not... it's the perception that most cross dressers have an issue with.

There's a big difference between ignorance by choice, and ignorance by coincidence. Those that are ignorant by choice will undoubtedly enter this forum and home in on the one or two fantasy threads, amidst the many threads about other things, and draw the same conclusion they're happy with. Those that are only ignorant by coincidence will try to observe the majority of threads and members, then draw an educated conclusion about us.

It's kind of like a pessimist refusing to accept the three desirable outcomes, and focusing on the one undesirable one. This goes for any subject matter. Once a head is in the sand, it will stay there for as long as it wants to. The good thing about people like that is, most other people recognize the "head in the sand syndrome" and do not bother to listen to them. Since no one bothers to listen to them, it's not really an issue, for me.

[TxKimberly]

I called my mom.. It was "The Music Man". When I asked, she laughed and still wouldn't reveal the significance.


Darn it - your Mom beat me to the punch. yes, it is from the Music Man. It was about a bit of a shady character trying to convince the towns folks that their town and their children were all on the fast track for going to hell. And Oh, by the way, if you buy all of these instruments from me and get your kids interested in them, why you can save their very souls! "Because you got trouble my friend, that's right, trouble, right here in River City." If you wanna see what Mom and Dad were laughing about, enjoy a smile on me and youtube:
qam1fbQmA_s

[Kaitlyn Michele]

that is an amazing performance by Robert Preston..

btw...how ironic that he was a closeted gay male making a movie about shamming a town to form a "boys" band...:heehee:

[kellycan27]

There's a big difference between ignorance by choice, and ignorance by coincidence. Those that are ignorant by choice will undoubtedly enter this forum and home in on the one or two fantasy threads, amidst the many threads about other things, and draw the same conclusion they're happy with. Those that are only ignorant by coincidence will try to observe the majority of threads and members, then draw an educated conclusion about us.

It's kind of like a pessimist refusing to accept the three desirable outcomes, and focusing on the one undesirable one. This goes for any subject matter. Once a head is in the sand, it will stay there for as long as it wants to. The good thing about people like that is, most other people recognize the "head in the sand syndrome" and do not bother to listen to them. Since no one bothers to listen to them, it's not really an issue, for me.

Very well put, and I believe that this attitude would serve us well on the outside as well as on this board. Hopefully you realized that I was in no way arguing with your points but merely attempting to dig a little deeper into your thoughts. I started this thread wirh a question, and up until now I haven't given my own personal opinion. While I do think that these fantasy threads may cause a WTF moment for the unaware wife or SO upon first reading them I don't think that the small number outsiders opinions are going to have a significant (if any at all) effect on how most people's perceptions. I'll take my own opinion a step further.. People here like to post new stories about some tg ( I'll stop using cder, i don't want people to think I am picking on cder's lol) making the headlines for some dumb thing or another. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that these morons are making it bad for the community as a whole. It may well to those "ignorant by choice" types who are already of that mind set, but here again I don't think that it occurs to a significant number. How I act and conduct myself in my little slice of live is what is going to determine how I am or am not accepted. What Joe Blow on the other side of the country, or even on the next block does is on him and has no bearing on me what so ever. We all know what is said about opinions... they're like.. well you know the rest. The word education always pops up in these acceptance threads. Personally with the diversity of the TG spectrum I don't see the cohesion necessary to mount a mass education. it's going to take one person at a time by each and every one of us.. I think that the best that we can hope for is to as I mentioned... do the best we can individually in our little slice of heaven.

[kellycan27]

Darn it - your Mom beat me to the punch. yes, it is from the Music Man. It was about a bit of a shady character trying to convince the towns folks that their town and their children were all on the fast track for going to hell. And Oh, by the way, if you buy all of these instruments from me and get your kids interested in them, why you can save their very souls! "Because you got trouble my friend, that's right, trouble, right here in River City." If you wanna see what Mom and Dad were laughing about, enjoy a smile on me and youtube:

I think it had more to do with something that "happened" when they saw the movie.. something that the phrase "right here in River City" sparks a fond or silly rememberence. Thanks for the link though, I am gonna look for the movie. lol

Kel

[donnalee]

that is an amazing performance by Robert Preston..

btw...how ironic that he was a closeted gay male making a movie about shamming a town to form a "boys" band...:heehee:That was another movie I believe -"Victor-Victoria", had Julie Andrews in the title role, James Garner, Alex Karras; great cast and hilarious. As to Preston's personal life I have no knowledge, just that he was a spectacular performer at his craft.

[StarrOfDelite]

Starr, I am not debating your point nor your opinion, and i agree that everyone has fantasies, but I think that people being people.. there's even a line drawn somewhere even in fantasy world. I think that most people would roll their eyes at the guy who had the fantasy of doing the whole Dallas Cowboy cheer leading squad, and might think that it's more or less a "normal" male fantasy, but what if it was a cross dresser's fantasy to have sex with the entire Dallas Cowboy football team?

I agree that the entire Dallas Cowboy football team would be a bit of a reach, but I'd definitely be interested in Tony Romo. I might even invite Troy Aikman and Darryl Johnston out of the TV booth, too. :-) But, strictly one at a time.

[kellycan27]

I agree that the entire Dallas Cowboy football team would be a bit of a reach, but I'd definitely be interested in Tony Romo. I might even invite Troy Aikman and Darryl Johnston out of the TV booth, too. :-) But, strictly one at a time.


LOL...... you go girl!

[Starling]

that is an amazing performance by Robert Preston..

btw...how ironic that he was a closeted gay male making a movie about shamming a town to form a "boys" band...:heehee:

Do you have a secret source, Kaitlyn? I googled him and found only the usual disclaimers: he was a WWII combat veteran and was married to the same woman until he died.

And her name was Jack.

:heehee: Lallie


...people will say that after you come out to someone (especially a spouse), that you should send them here to learn...you should not do it without discussion ahead of time that frames how you feel...a frightened spouse/girlfriend coming here will likely assume that everything they read will be true about their partner.

I made that mistake, Sue, and I will regret it as long as I live. It's like that pesky bell that can't be un-rung.

:) Lallie

[ReineD]

^ Lallie .. We do tell new GGs there is a wide variety of people who post here: CDs, TS, questioning, fetishists, young, old, single, married, gay, straight, bi, etc, and they should discuss threads that raise questions directly with their husbands. It's all a part of the educational process.

[Starling]

Unfortunately, Reine, any "discussion" of gender issues around my house quickly turns horrible. It's become strictly DADT. I'm very depressed about the future.

:sad: Lallie

PS: But I'm hoping gender counseling will help me and my SO to decide how to proceed. So I guess I'm not permanently depressed, just going through a rough patch.:)