Dealing with Male Conditioning? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Longing2be-Trisha

09-09-2011, 11:15 AM

Hi Stefanie!

This is a good forum for this question or even the private forum for mtf ts. Women all over the world act differently, the way they walk, talk, mannerisms, and attitudes. I love watching people especially at the mall just sitting on a bench and watching. women do not do the runway walk, but many do walk differently than men. My oldest daughter use to find it funny how I could change my voice and sing like Britney Spears. I sing high tenor 1 to bass 1 almost to bass 2 which is almost 2 and 1/2 octaves. I even play jokes on friends and call them in different voices woman's and men. Practice makes perfect when it comes to learning and unlearning things. when you are a man you must act like a man, and when you are a woman think and act like a woman you know you are, not the man you were forced to become. Overtime the man will disappear and the woman will remain.

Hugs

suchacutie

09-09-2011, 01:57 PM

What my wife and I did for Tina was to talk about the details of growing up as a girl. It was a fascinating discussion and incredibly insightful. It was very helpful to Tina in learning what was different emotionally and psychologically in the process of learning to be a woman, as opposed to learning to be a man.

We can't forget what we know, but we can learn about the new ideas we wish to add to our lives.

tina

xcdmargo

09-09-2011, 02:07 PM

I think I find that we are already wired to act a little more on the female side anyway. I find myself and other girls I know that they are more sensitive, more accepting, a little more fashion conscious, and generally more open to ideas and people. I know I will never make the transition but I can and do make myself more androgynous. I like being able to kind of walk the middle of the road. I've been both mam'd and sir'd probably equal times, it's kind of funny

margo

Katesback

09-09-2011, 02:28 PM

Aprilrain

09-09-2011, 03:33 PM

I have never met a person that has yet to commit to being a female 100% of the time to have a seamless presentation. The sad fact is is as long as someone is presenting to the world a boy they will NEVER do a seamless job presenting a girl. Just too big a task to to do a good job with something less than 100% effort.

Katie

On that note I have met plenty of full time TS woman who make very little effort to change the way they walk, talk, their mannerisms et cetera. It seems that for them the "look" is enough. It is difficult to learn to behave differently than what you were taught. I think a lot of TS woman have a hard time with this because learning anything new feels unnatural at first. We assume that the way we behave is "natural" as if we were born to "act" that way but we had to learn it same as everything else. Our family and friends growing up were constantly reinforcing the behaviors they wanted us to have and many of these were gender specific.

Maryanne_sa

09-09-2011, 03:35 PM

What was very useful for me was to watch women very carefully, in mannerism's, hand movements, the way the walk, sit, (no slouching). The inflection in the voices when they speak. Women, in general, I have found are more friendly an open to other women than men are to men ( I refer to strangers) You will often get a smile from another women, whether it's coming out of the toilets or in a lift etc.

I also agree with xcdmargo. I was alway more sensitive, and of course, more fashion concious than my male contemporaries, although this was well hidden from them for many years. Now, I am full time, and my close friends are women.

Try to be as confident as you can when going out, and if you think you have been read, don't look back to check if you are being looked at. The more confident you are the less likely you are to be read.
One of my female friends has never known me as a male, and says she can't even begin to imagine me as a male, which was the highest comliment.

Good luck,

Maryanne

Stephenie S

09-09-2011, 07:25 PM

Kaitlyn Michele

09-09-2011, 08:22 PM

Aprilrain

09-09-2011, 09:44 PM

if you can't transition, all you can do is watch and learn......

today i was at the bank, and a young woman was helping me, and she appeared pregnant...i wasn't sure... she was working through my account and asked if i had children..i said yes..2 daughters...
in my own mind, i am still a little quiet and not prone to engage people all the time... she then asked how old?...i responded with their ages... after about 30 seconds of silence... i asked if she had and children...bam!... we were off and talking..

i felt strange afterwards..i missed her signals at first...i was so focused on TRYING to be comfortable, that i forgot to communicate .. its a small thing...but its a little moment that illustrates that things just naturally come in time, and its not something you practice, its something you do everyday until it sinks in..

I have always been this way especially with woman but inevitably that awkward moment would come when I was a "man" when the woman I was talking to would realize I was a guy and that would usually end the conversation. I remember a time last year not long after i had accepted myself and was "crossdressing" inernest but wasn't out anywhere where people knew me yet. I was at school and I started talking to these girls in my class (before class started) and I started to get all Girlie talking with them. Just one of the girls. It was at that moment I saw the change, they stopped talking it was silent for a moment then they started talking amongst themselves and I had been shut out. : (

Melody Moore

09-09-2011, 10:12 PM

Kate is SO right here. Going back and forth is the worst thing you can do. Commit to 100% or just CD.

I also agree, you can't change habits or mannerisms that have been built up through a whole life time
with just a bit of dib & dabble, it just is not going to work. I especially noticed the male mannerisms in
one of the trans-girls in our support group who would go away to work all week presenting as a male.

In her job she operated harvesting machinery in the sugar cane industry here. Then she would come
home & try to be en-femme on the weekends. When she was standing around socialising with others
in the group it was very easy to see that her posture & mannerisms were all very masculine a mile away.
It stood out like a sore thumb & was so obvious that this will get you clocked more than anything. I first
noticed this about her when I first joined the group over a year ago.

But here is the irony in this situation, this trans woman also has a lot of issues she is still struggling with.
She is also the same woman that was trying to tell me in the beginning when I came to the group that I
was going to end up an emotional train wreck at some point after I started on hormones. Myself & others
failed to see how that was going to ever happen given my level of self-confidence, commitment & faith :heehee:

She also reckon that I would face huge amounts of discrimination & vilification & would also be assaulted
just for being trans. I had some feedback a couple of days ago from another member & close friend where
she was making up allegations about me that I wasn't even on hormones & that I was just a 'transvestite'. :eek:

But it isn't just me she has done this type of thing to, she has done it to other members, I seen her
and another trans-woman ridicule a new member in our group after she told them about her hormone
therapy regime. This new woman was obviously a lot more feminine in her appearance than those trying
to ridicule her, proving these others to the most bigoted & judgemental of all members in our group.

I think the difference between me and these others is definitely commitment - since I made the decision
to transition I have been 100% dedicated to being a female - I consider my femininity vital & important
in helping me resettled into a normal way of life as a female & I am doing everything possible & can afford
to help me have a normal way of life. I really don't socialise with many of them at all. I live in a share house
and have lots of female friends.

Having the commitment & the discipline to conquer my own personal fears has taken me a lifetime to
develop and trust me, I had many in my earlier years. I was a shy & repressed child who was bullied to
the point that I finally learnt to fight back. I never wanted to compete with males for dominance in the
rough & tumble male world, but they forced me to compete - my desire was always to just be socially
accepted & respected like other females - this is why my involvement now in my local Women's Support
Group is also a vital component to my life. So having the female influence all around you all the time will
also help you to break free of the male conditioning.

So 'no', you cannot do things by halves and as long you continue to interact
in society as a male, it is going to be harder to break free of male conditioning.

EDIT: I just wanted to also add that a couple of days ago I seen a male friend who I
haven't seen for about 10 months who said the transformation in me was amazing.
He never once referred to me with male pro-nouns to his friend like he did a fair bit
in the beginning. Him and his friends were very warm & affectionate towards me and
treated me no differently to any other female giving me that warm tingly feeling :daydreaming:

Anyway, I think it is more than physical looks, it is how you interact with guys,
if you interact with them as a male, then they will see you as being trans, but if
you interact with them as a female with 100% total commitment, then that is
how they will engage with you - starting to feel like a whole lot of fun actually ;)

Sara82

09-10-2011, 06:50 AM

i haven't started any transition 100%, mainly because of my job, my facial hair, and just starting therapy. i don't present as female yet either around people who know me. however its incredibly challenging to re-condition my behaviors. i've always had some feminine gestures, but there are things that i'm consciously aware of, but have a hard time not doing.

i also still have a hard time interacting with other females, without having that man/woman dynamic. although i do feel that when i present as fem, behaving as a female for me is a bit easier, especially around people who don't know me as a male.

Stefanie_Adams

09-10-2011, 07:22 AM

Geez I just spent about 20 minutes writing a response to all of your insightful comments only to have to log on again and lose what I wrote. I present myself as androgynous as possible and have been mam'd in public even though I have never been out dressed where others can see me. I am married and my wife has know for years but does not encourage but is accepting of who I am and the way I feel.

I consider myself female 100% of the time and pretend to be male when I have to for the safety of myself and may family. Some may think that is cop out, but that is were I am.

It makes sense that I can't unlearn what I know and I feel that I have learned new conditioning and Looking back on my question it may not be about Male conditioning at all , but more on the lack of validation and confidence I have in myself as a female

Thanks again for your comments.

thechic

09-10-2011, 08:04 AM

I started off with developing my female voice would work on this evey day once mastered i used this voice only,discarding my male voice compleaty over time,then i would watch to see how woman walked and there body movements and how thay did things managed to do this 24/7 discarded the male way,should of herd some of the names i was called when i was doing this in male mode.
Next moved onto makeup, skin and hair and fashion routines untill i had this mastered i did not go out in public.but would practice every day
would read pleanty of womans magizes and get advice from friends.
then got into hair removel.
then started HRT,then whent fem full time.
and im still trying to pick up things ,found you must get rid of the male way of doing thing compleatly or it comes back.
found this worked for me well as at work most clients that dont know about me presume im a woman engineer.

Kaitlyn Michele

09-10-2011, 08:13 AM

Stephanie...as an aside... one trick i use if i type is sometimes to right click (window 7) and copy what i wrote, so i can just paste it later ...

it kind of is a cop out...but its a very valid one..transition is destructive by nature.. fearing it is something you share with lots of us right up until something happens that sends you towards transition..this can be a moment, a slow realization, a suicidal thought..etc..you can end up needing it more than fearing it...

the best advice i've heard around it is if you don't have to transition , dont transition.... but the cost of this is just what you mention in the op and your last post... the feeling of validation and confidence in yourself as female is not really attainable...

its a tough problem many of us have faced...

Melody Moore

09-10-2011, 08:27 AM

I consider myself female 100% of the time and pretend to be male when I have to for
the safety of myself and may family. Some may think that is cop out, but that is were I am.

It makes sense that I can't unlearn what I know and I feel that I have learned new
conditioning and Looking back on my question it may not be about Male conditioning
at all , but more on the lack of validation and confidence I have in myself as a female
I know you have to do what you feel is right for you & your family, but are 100% sure that you are not using
this 'safety of myself & the family' as excuse not to confront your fears? After you also admit that you have
a lack of validation & confidence in yourself as a female. So can you honestly say that this is not 'a cop out'?

I also feel that you might be TS & have GID as well, and this is why you have so much turmoil going on & it
is getting harder & harder trying to balance your life where you can be happy because you obviously want to
let go of your male conditioning, but like myself & others have said that won't be an easy thing to do while
you are still engaging other people as a male. You might feel as though you feel female 100% of the time, but
the reality is you are not being a female 100% of the time despite what you said. Because even by your own
words you still have to keep reverting back to a male role as a security blanket because your male conditioning
is still more natural to you.

Stefanie, from everything I am seeing with you here, you my dear have some things to sort out & hopefully we
can help you do that. You obviously love your wife but I think you know if you take things to the next level then
there are going to be a lot more problem in your life with your marriage. But you cannot keep going through life
feeling like you are walking on eggshells trying to balance out your life & I also think that you might be also aware
of that. The problem with GID it never goes away & it never gets any easier when it has this much of a hold over
you. And as we go through life & slowly strip away all the excuses, then we are faced more & more with the reality
that we are indeed transsexual. And when that bell finally goes off, then comes that 'make or break' stage which
I think you might be also fairly close to because of your desires to express yourself more & more as a female.

Transition is very destructive as Kaitlyn just pointed out, it is like you are taking everything
in your life & throwing it all into the air & what survives the fallout lives on & what doesn't dies.

The most important bit of advice I want to give you here is to get yourself into therapy with a pyschologist that
can help you with all the of issues that you are having to deal with - you need help with your condition, but you
will also need help with your wife & your marriage, as well as coming out to family & friends if you do decide to
take the journey into full-time gender transition.

When my bell went off, there was no holding me back, after I got my change in gender identity letter
& changed all my ID, I also got rid of all my male clothing. I made a point to get rid of everything that
was male in my life - I didn't need any constant reminders about what I was leaving behind - but I had
nothing to hold me back like you do and this is why you really need the help of a good therapist here.

Louise C

09-10-2011, 09:05 AM

Hi Stefanie,
This is good reading, is this thread, sometimes one comes along that really strikes a chord with people. This one strikes a particular chord with me. I'll explain.
I was with my wife for 23 years, i told her 3 months in to the relationship about my desire to crossdress, and in the beginning she was really embracing of the whole thing. Initially she helped me with my makeup, choosing clothes etc, although it was kept a closely guarded secret. As the years rolled by, she became less happy with the situation, and my time to crossdress became less and less.

I, in turn became more miserable - to the point where there was no point.

My biggest mistake had been not to tell her just how deep my feelings of womanhood went, because i felt the frequent crossdressing was keeping a lid on things. I was very wrong.
When i finally went to seek some help from my GP, everything fell apart. I tried for 12 months to stay as her husband, but it just wasn't possible. So we divorced, fairly amicably, although i think this was only because i was on "best behaviour" in order to keep things on a civil footing.

I am now 2 years down the road and having had the "moment of truth" thing happen a few weeks ago, am now trying to cope with going full time. And boy it's tough. I spent way too long trying to be the macho guy, and am now paying the price.

However, there is no other way for me, i cannot go back and must go forwards. That thought of having to revert is just horrific to me.

You may think this has gone off topic a bit, but what i'm trying to get across is that your situation sounds very similar to mine initially - i too thought i was 100% feminine in mind if not in body, but this is just not possible. I have SO much to learn. The advice is good from the others - don't transition if you don't have to, but, reading between the lines, it sounds to me like you're a ticking timebomb. We're all here for you when you go off.

Kaitlyn Michele

09-10-2011, 09:41 AM

Hi Stefanie,

i felt the frequent crossdressing was keeping a lid on things. I was very wrong.
When i finally went to seek some help from my GP, everything fell apart. I tried for 12 months to stay as her husband, but it just wasn't possible. .....

I am now 2 years down the road and having had the "moment of truth" thing happen a few weeks ago, am now trying to cope with going full time. And boy it's tough. I spent way too long trying to be the macho guy, and am now paying the price.

However, there is no other way for me, i cannot go back and must go forwards. That thought of having to revert is just horrific to me.

..... i too thought i was 100% feminine in mind if not in body, but this is just not possible. I have SO much to learn. The advice is good from the others - don't transition if you don't have to, but, reading between the lines, it sounds to me like you're a ticking timebomb. We're all here for you when you go off.

This is great point Louise.. ...the idea of not transitioning unless you have to kind of presumes that you may be simply crossdressing, its a nice way to say that transition will totally f* up your life for a while.....

you make a great example of how the concept of being in control of your transsexuality is an illusion..
many of us have experienced it first hand, and have seen it in action OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... and its hard to communicate the idea any better than you did with your story...

Stefanie_Adams

09-10-2011, 11:02 AM

More great advice, I am going to have to read these all again to make sure I don't miss anything.

It can be difficult to accurately express a situation such as this one on the internet, absent the emotion. But here is additional information about me.

I have been to therapy though years ago (4) and at that time came to the conclusion that I was TS. I would have no problem proceeding forward with exploration on how far I would go. But I didn’t as it more than likely would have been problematic with regards to my relationship with my wife. I decided that I was in control of my emotional state at that time and could function in that present situation. I believe that I still am, meaning I do not suffer from terrible anxiety from not being able to proceed further.

Referencing the fear I mentioned, well that is a tough one because I am viewing it from the stand point physical harm, lost of wife, income friends and family, WOW that is everything! Yet it is still in the back of my mind that I should have been born female.

My wife from time to time comes up with things that totally throw me off wondering where she is coming from. She has mentioned recently on occasion that I should wear more jewelry because that is what I want to do. And she did ask me a couple of weeks ago if I asked you to dress for me would I do it, she said I would laugh very hard at you and I told her that I wouldn’t want it to change our relationship, but I know it would. I did tell her that I respect the gender. She has known about this for 21 years now. Doesn’t know my femme name either.

This could go on for hours and hours… so I just shut up and listen. I do intend to read your replies again and again, thank you so much for your support. I assure you all that I am not going to blow my head off or keel over for an anxiety. But I do know this in my 50 some years on the planet this is never going away and I will be constantly compelled to pursue this side of me.

Melody Moore

09-10-2011, 11:07 AM

because i felt the frequent crossdressing was keeping a lid on things. I was very wrong.
I split up from my ex-wife in December 2005 and started dating again a bit over a year after my divorce
was finalised at the in early 2007. I dated some really lovely women, but things were definitely different
for me - something inside me was changing. I started to have feelings about wanting to express myself
as a female & was having thoughts about gender transition again. I didn't start dressing as a female until
about mid-2008 and was leading a double life that was even kept well-hidden from my house-mates. I
also started researching gender transition a lot more on the internet around this same time and started
to think very seriously about it again.

But then I met a woman that I got more serious with in 2009 and we started living together, so I used
this as an excuse not to transition, so I purged myself by getting rid of all the female clothing & items
that had started collecting. The worst mistake I ever made - we split up 10 months later. I can see now
that used this woman to try and escape who I really was. Which is nothing new because I also did this
a lot earlier in life but to a much greater extent when I used women a lot more to reaffirm my masculinity.

Once I moved out and into a share-house I started to collect female clothing again & went back to living a
hidden double life. But this time it was much harder to deal with my desire to be a female - it just exploded
within me. I reached that point where I just couldn't go on living a life that was just total crap & massive lie.

I was sick of fighting with my GID, feeling stressed out, anxious & ashamed & feeling guilty. So I went to
see a doctor who wasn't much help. But it got to a point where I just said "f*ck it" to life & everyone else
around me - including my sexually repressed bisexual house-mate who was objectionable & homophobic
about my desire & decision to transition while I was living with him. But f*ck him, I then just went ahead
& started living my life for me and not for anyone else :D I found better help at my local gender clinic soon
after and was quickly put on hormone therapy over a year ago and haven't looked back since then.

I moved out from there & lived with another post-op transsexual woman for awhile but found better
accommodation living in a share-house where I live with another 38 year old female & 50 year male.
The owner lives on the same property in another building & there are two other females in two other
apartments living here. I am accepted as a female by everyone because I don't engage them ever as
a male. I just couldn't do that anymore - it's just not the real me. So I guess I found that validation
you mentioned that allows me to do this.

Yes gender transition is very difficult, there are a lot of changes that you go through and it isn't for
everyone. And do I think it is worth it? Yes I believe it is, I am a lot more positive & confident & am
at peace within myself about who I really am now. But only you can decide if you can be comfortable,
content & happy to keep living as you are. If you can, then my hat is off to you, but I couldn't do it
anymore - it was just too hard being caught in between both genders & keeping the lid on it all.

Katesback

09-10-2011, 01:37 PM

Avana

09-10-2011, 02:43 PM

I tell ya what. If a CD or a guy I were to meet were to tell me they were actually a girl I would NOT believe them. I am sorry but I just am always going to be suspect of anyone that is not willing to take the big step and progress in life as the person they claim they are. Actions are all that counts and talk is cheap. Finally I have herd over 1000 excuses for not transitioning. I myself had my own share of excuses till the day I said "hell with what other people think" and I moved on. If someone has excuses they odviously do not really find transitioning to be that important or they have not yet gotten to the point where they find it to be imperative that they do it.

The simple fact is that for everyone who has transitioned, there has always been some time before 'taking the big step'. It therefore seems very pretentious to define other people's genders for them based this action. Everyone talks about transitioning before acting on it. Some longer than others.

Kaitlyn Michele

09-10-2011, 03:27 PM

maybe the easiest way to say it is that you are going to be continually male conditioned until you actually stop living as a male.

the idea that you can just do it all in your mind is attractive but it carries its own costs, and its proven to be totally unsatisfactory to most people ..
when someone says they are 100% female in their minds and living as male..we basically can know that they are fantasizing or they are in line to meet a huge brick wall that tends to fall right on top of them...

maybe kate you can make a stamp that says.."action is all that counts.." "talk is cheap" or "cut the excuses" and just hit the stamp button on every post where someone expresses fear of moving forward..

Louise C

09-10-2011, 03:59 PM

.we basically can know that they are fantasizing or they are in line to meet a huge brick wall that tends to fall right on top of them...[QUOTE]

Just clearing the last of those bricks :)...............

[QUOTE=Stefanie_Adams;2593858]More great advice, I am going to have to read these all again to make sure I don't miss anything.

It can be difficult to accurately express a situation such as this one on the internet, absent the emotion. But here is additional information about me.

I have been to therapy though years ago (4) and at that time came to the conclusion that I was TS. I would have no problem proceeding forward with exploration on how far I would go. But I didn’t as it more than likely would have been problematic with regards to my relationship with my wife. I decided that I was in control of my emotional state at that time and could function in that present situation. I believe that I still am, meaning I do not suffer from terrible anxiety from not being able to proceed further.

Referencing the fear I mentioned, well that is a tough one because I am viewing it from the stand point physical harm, lost of wife, income friends and family, WOW that is everything! Yet it is still in the back of my mind that I should have been born female.

My wife from time to time comes up with things that totally throw me off wondering where she is coming from. She has mentioned recently on occasion that I should wear more jewelry because that is what I want to do. And she did ask me a couple of weeks ago if I asked you to dress for me would I do it, she said I would laugh very hard at you and I told her that I wouldn’t want it to change our relationship, but I know it would. I did tell her that I respect the gender. She has known about this for 21 years now. Doesn’t know my femme name either.

This could go on for hours and hours… so I just shut up and listen. I do intend to read your replies again and again, thank you so much for your support. I assure you all that I am not going to blow my head off or keel over for an anxiety. But I do know this in my 50 some years on the planet this is never going away and I will be constantly compelled to pursue this side of me.

Yep, sounds about right.........

Rianna Humble

09-10-2011, 05:01 PM

the best advice i've heard around it is if you don't have to transition , dont transition.... but the cost of this is just what you mention in the op and your last post...
...
its a tough problem many of us have faced...

I was given the same advice and my answer was similar to Louise

there is no other way for me, i cannot go back and must go forwards. That thought of having to revert is just horrific to me.

I was also asked to consider what would happen if in 6 month time I decided I had made a mistake, my reply went a little further than Louise that time - if I cannot transition then I would be better off dead.

The sad fact is is as long as someone is presenting to the world a boy they will NEVER do a seamless job presenting a girl. Just too big a task to to do a good job with something less than 100% effort.

Just to prove that I never agree with Kate (ask her), she is absolutely right here

Kristy_K

09-10-2011, 05:54 PM

Two weeks ago I seen I therapist for the first time. I kept putting it off because I figure that it was mostly sexual with me. I had major back surgery and realize that the desire to CD was there but not the sexual thoughts. To many drugs in me to even think about sex. Then I thought that because I don't like men that transitioning wasn't for me. Then a friend on mine so yeah so what. You have never heard of Lesbians? My second visit
9-7-11 I went as Kristy which was the first time ever out of the house as Kristy. I was so scare. But I love it. I felt so free. I have been many places sense then and have been treated very nice. Like a Queen most of the time. My voice is male. My hands are big. I am very tall. I can turn people heads from the my height alone. People my look at me at first but I haven't caught them staring at me or us when I am with anyone. People seem to like me more now especially the lady's. My whole point about this for me is. That it didn't seem to matter how good I was acting as a woman. I feel that people seen me so happy to be me that they wanted to be with me. Because I have accepted myself for who I am. Even all of my friends that I have came out to has said I am so much happier now. I am myself have decided to start transitioning. I was so scare almost 3 weeks ago to let someone see me. Now I want people to see me free and happy because I am being me. I can now say that I really love the person I see in the looking glass now. People may not think I am beautiful. I think I have a beauty in me because I like what I see now. Some I could never say before. It seems happiness is like money. People love to be around it
I for myself feel that I release myself from my prison. For me now transitioning seems to be the only answer that will work. I have never enjoy life, in my whole life as I have these last few weeks. I walk talk and keep them girls out in front and I am loving ever minute of it. Accepting me was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. It took me over fifty years to do it. The rewards I have received have been fantastic for me mentally. I love life and me now.
I learn now if you don't like who you are. Then why shall anyone else like who you are.

Melody Moore

09-10-2011, 06:12 PM

Then I thought that because I don't like men that transitioning wasn't for me. Then a friend on mine so yeah so what. You have never heard of Lesbians?
Don't be surprised about this, but many of us held ourselves back in the belief we were not transsexual
because of our sexual orientations & the ill-founded belief that it gender & sexuality was binary to each other.
I identify as a lesbian, but am finding becoming more & more interested in men as well. So I believe that your
sexuality can change with gender transition as well if you do go on hormone therapy. So just keep an open
mind to things & don't be surprised if you find yourself looking at guys more & more.

Congratulations & Goodluck :hugs:

Kristy_K

09-11-2011, 01:09 AM

Thank you so much Melody. I believe that you are very right in what you are saying. My thoughts and ideas are changing on a daily basic. So I do keep an open mind because I feel it makes it easier to be me. I did start HRT a few months ago. I friend of mine that did fully transition said the same thing. I will just wait and see where my path leads me.

Hope

09-11-2011, 05:20 AM

This is the real job of transition. Sadly lots of girls don't realize it, or think it is trivial and blow it off.

I think the biggest thing you can do, as a guy, is to start to be aware of all of the male conditioning you have been a part of. It is hard work. Just being aware of how we were very subtly taught to behave and act is difficult. Harder yet is picking out all of the things you need to DO as a girl to make it look like you lived THAT socialization pattern.

ANd almost no one but other trans girls can help you. Cis girls don't notice that they behave according to a set of femme social rules any more than most guys realize that they behave according to a set of male social rules.

The BEST thing you can do is start to be aware of yourself. When you do something and you feel sheepish about (first you have to learn to consciously identify that emotion) that is something that has a gender rule that you have learned to follow. Then pay attention to women, and watch the subtle things. How does she interact with men, and with other women? What about when she is alone, verses part of a group? There are thousands of permutations. Watch watch watch. But don't be creepy.

Wendy_Marie

09-11-2011, 06:15 AM

Geez I just spent about 20 minutes writing a response to all of your insightful comments only to have to log on again and lose what I wrote. .

I have gotten in the habit of copying my longer posts before I hit the post reply button..that way if it is lost during re-logging...all I have to do is paste it back in the window.

Stefanie_Adams

09-14-2011, 12:30 PM

I want to thank you all again for your reply’s. I have read thru all of the posts twice just to make sure that I have no overlooked anything and have spent most of the morning contemplating were I am at this moment and have some additional comments as well.

First and foremost I do not feel that I need to transition to full time at the present, but I will keep learning and acquiring female attributes continually. I do not feel that not being able to give this 100% effort at this time makes me any less TS, I know that I am more than a CD (not that there is anything wrong with that ;) ).

As far as fantasy is concerned I don’t think that is what I am doing as the mind is a very powerful tool and you can use it to change literally any aspect of your life. If I put as much energy into other things as I have put into this very strong side of myself. I would be more successful than I am now, monetarily speaking. For the most part I think that I am successful as a person. I feel that I am kind and have self-worth.

Yes I am living a double life and probably cheating myself out of what would be a better life as a female but who really knows. Again I don’t need to transition at this time but I will continue my exploration and education.

Hugs to all of you, some hard choices to make in the future thanks again for you input.

Louise C

09-19-2011, 01:00 PM

You're very welcome. x

Melody Moore

09-19-2011, 01:49 PM

No THANK YOU Stefanie, I really appreciated this discussion because so many other points have been raised here.
In fact you have given me a very good idea topic to talk about to my group at my next TG support group meeting
on the 1st of October.

One of the girls in my group has been going through some difficult times after starting on hormones and is in some
degree of conflict over her relationships with other females through her male conditioning. She made a good friend
a female who told her that she loved her and would stand by her to see her get though her transition (as a friend),
but this trans girl took it as the friend was 'coming on to her' which is typical male response when a female shows
any type of love & affection towards a male - especially one that has never had an intimate relationship in their life.

I was trying to warn her not to read to much into her relationship with this woman because when you are in transition
how you interact, socialise & relate to females also changes and needs to be readjusted & fully remapped in the brain.

One thing I quickly worked out after I started my transition was the women who love me now love me like a sister
and are not actually 'in love' with me. So this thread and the recent issues with one of the girls has got me thinking
about this as a good discussion topic and a reason why our M-F transsexuals really need to get involved with a local
women's group that I have organised our members to also become part of to help them overcome "Male Conditioning".

So thanks once again for bringing this subject up ;)

Stefanie_Adams

09-26-2011, 09:34 AM

Well here is another follow up to this thread. I understand the great information that has been posted in this thread seems like it is quieting down a bit. This happens to me meaning my anxiety level increase when life situations change like when you spouse looses here job and I know she is going to be home for awhile and I won't have a chance to be me, meaning I have to put all my girl stuff on hold until the time presents itself again or when a child comes home to roost for awhile. I understand that having to do this suppress my true self that is part of the ticking time bomb Louise C eluded to. It gets harder and harder to suppress the older I get. I don't know if it is because time is running out so to speak because of my age or just that the feelings I have get stronger with age. I have dealt before and will do it again this time as well.

Hugs
Stefanie

Inna

09-26-2011, 12:22 PM

I haven't read all the postings here so apologies if I am repeating any info. Years of conditioning of male persona will definitely be hard to overcome. For some less manly or more feminine ones the transition will be less stressful then those who embraced the idea of stifling the girl within by stomping her down and hoping for her demise.
Years of conditioning means years of reconditioning, simply without the start of transition it is impossible to loose male self without the process.
And for me at least so far all together 4 years produced some unbelievable results both mental acceptance and reasonable stability as well as body, movement, mannerisms, which always were there underneath all that pretense and camouflage of male persona.

Not all the girls will achieve ultra feminine presentation, some are just way too manly or can not feel the difference, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. It just creates more questions by those who are observing.

Melody Moore

09-26-2011, 04:40 PM

There are some things I learnt from my life as a male that I don't want to ever part with because they serve me
well and one of those things is my very strong willed and very determined personality that learnt to take no crap.
But life wasn't always like this for me - as a child I was shy, repressed and withdrawn. So I was an easy target
for others to bully & abuse me and for a predator who once sexually abused me. I am not ashamed of that male
side of me that makes others stop and think 'Nah, I don't wanna f*ck with that b!tch". For many natal females
developing this type of skill just so they can protect themselves is very difficult so this is something I don't want
to ever lose no matter how far I progress into womanhood. I don't think I could no matter how hard I want to try.

What I find really funny is how the minute you do stand up for yourself others around you might make
some type of comment like "That's not very lady like" or they accuse you because they know you are
trans of being a "bloke in a dress". What the f*ck do they expect to see? Any girl who gets angry isn't
exactly a pretty picture of femininity - so I wonder what some people's real issues are eh? Maybe I am
just very happy and comfortable in my own skin. And personally this is what I believe is most important :)