statistics don't lie and yet we think we have something to hide?

[cassandra54]

i have posted a comment that i've made after several replies, maybe in the hopes of clarifying this.

"okay people.....maybe i didn't thread a little clearer. it is not about reading the national enquirer and believing what's in it. that's a fool's errand at best. and it's not about prejudice. this is a general observation that i've made throughout the years. so many people have something to hide. so many people in the public eye have been caught with their pants down. a lot of us keep our second lives hidden from others and for the most part, we all have good reason to do so. so i compiled a small list of all the things that other people have to hide and keep hidden in their lives for whatever reasons. i guess i am saying we are not alone in keeping secrets and some people have secrets that could create a lot of harm."

i've had this discussion with lots of different people. what brought this on today was reading the national enquirer and the story about sarah palin claiming she did cocaine, had an affair with a basketball player and so on. pretty much anyone in the public eye has a skeleton in the closet and i usually draw the same two conclusions.

1. who cares. (unless it harms, endangers or exploits women or children and then it makes me either very sad, angry or both.)
2. i'm not surprised.

i think it's a sign of the times, when i was a kid the thought was if you believe everything you hear, you're gullible. nowadays the thought is if you DON'T believe everything you hear your naive. so where am i going with this? well think about this. i don't have the exact numbers, it's not important but as far as demographics, percentages, segments of population and all that stuff that make up statistics consider this:

1. combined there is probably about 10% of the population that is bisexual, gay or lesbian and this does not include those that fall into smaller groups that are fetishists.
2. how many people do you think practice fetishes like s&m, d&s, swinging, practice polyamory, and a lot of stuff just too gross to mention here.
3. how many child predators that exploit children in a lot of vile ways, including incest, child prostitution, child pornography and the list goes on and on.
4. some people have legal issues, such as not being in this country legally, arrest warrants, convicted or at large criminals, embezzlers, cyber criminals, spies, members of organized crime families, drug dealers and the list goes on and on and on. a good number of these people could just disappear from the general population and either go into hiding, be murdered or sentenced to many years in prison if not life. who knows for sure what percentage of the population this is.
5. people with substance abuse problems, either drugs or alcohol, gambling or other addictive behaviors, and don't forget mental health issues, co-dependency enablers and things like that.
6. domestic and foreign terrorists living in this country who wish to do us harm.
who knows how many have come in from our porous borders and don't forget the hate and extremist groups.
7. i put this at the bottom of the list just because. there are a growing group of us who are crossdressers, either closeted or out, transgender, transvestite, and transexual. and who knows how many of us there are.

so after all this just two things.
1. look around at your neighbors, coworkers, family, friends, religious organizations. any groups you congregate with and just think, maybe wonder, who's doing what to who.
2. do we really need to live in fear of being found out? or is our group just one more drop in the bucket.

[kellycan27]

The National Inquirer... an excellent news source. Really?

[cassandra54]

The National Inquirer... an excellent news source. Really?

no it's not of course, people who are very naive and gullible read it for the sensationalism. i read it for a good laugh. by the way statistics say most of the news is hearsay which is how rumors get started.

[Kaitlyn26]

Living in fear is not necessary. The national enquirer? Yuck. I tend to believe that which can be proven. Much easier than being gullible or naive.

[NathalieX66]

The National Inquirer... an excellent news source. Really?

Lol! :lol:
Cassandra, I know you know the National Enqirer is not a valid news source, and it probably got you thinking. National Enquirer....seriously.

Where's Dennis Rodman in this?

hugs & kisses,
N

[Gillian Gigs]

I get the gist of what is being said, to me the problem is that we all judge other people and that level of judgement varies from person to person. Religious people get accused of judging all of the time, but I have yet to meet anyone that does not judge others on one level or another. One person may judge Blacks more harshly, another may judge Gays harshly. Hatred, phobias, and fears rule many of the ways in which we judge others. If you were taught that all ______'s have tails and hurt little children, then you will think that way until you educate yourself, and too many can not be bothered to attempt any education, or change. I do not think that most people really care, or give a dam. The best example that I can give is this. I go into stores all of the time to buy womens clothes and often get a clerks help, without any comments or questions. I have even returned items without any questions or hassles. Only once have I ever been asked any questions. Why are you returning this item, answer, it didn't fit, question, do you have the reciept, yes, no more questions. I buy bras, panties, pantyhose, etc, and no one ever seems to give a second thought about it. I think that we judge ourselves more harshly than others do, and we think that they are judging us by the same standards that we are judging oursleves or others. I think that they don't really care until you impose on them. I think that everyone has at least one skeleton in their closet, they don't want you to go into it and they don't want to go into your closet either. Well it may be different if you are the news media. LOL They seem to live to dig up dirt on anyone. Stay out of politics and most of us should be safe.LOL

[Taylor186]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

(A phase popularized by Mark Twain, but possibly not originated by him Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics))


In other words, statistics, like the National Enquirer, often offer up information of dubious validity.

[AllieSF]

Geez, I like reading the headlines in the National Enquirer while waiting in the check out lines. It must be a great tabloid because the Men In Black used it as a source of information on all the aliens' (not the cross border ones, but the cross galaxy ones) activities. Regarding numbers used in those statistics, a wise old man once told me the "Numbers don't lie. Liars use numbers!" In business and politics numbers and statistics are a treasure for those that want to confuse us or hide the truth, or exaggerate it. In one of my MBA classes I had to read a book about how to use numbers to one's advantage when trying to convince somebody about something. Just changing the scales on graphs, while still telling the truth, can over or under state the truth. Fun and games with numbers.

[sterling12]

Direct Answer to your question....No! We don't need to live in fear, but our biggest enemy is probably ourselves. An awful lot of our fear is self-generated, and has no basis in fact. And, slowly but surely; people are beginning to view Trans-Folk as very low ranking member's on The Pervert Scale.

Now back to The Exciting Stuff, bashing The Enquirer! I once tried to use That Rag to line My Cat's Litter Pan. Commercial Litter is getting very expensive, and The Enquirer is way cheaper per application. However, it didn't work out. My Cat wouldn't use The Pan. After questioning The Cat, he felt it was redundant! There was much too much S**T already in That Pan.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[CatAttack]

But where else do you get the latest news about women who have mutant babies or Obama's secret robot love slave?

Joking aside, yes it is true that like >10% of the population fall under the LGBT spectrum and that does make one wonder if anyone you know is hiding this. But then again, you can't apply these statistics to your own friends because you tend to make friends with certain kinds of people, and that is not a good representation of the general population as a whole, which is what the statistic is meant to represent.

[Ellyn]

The National Inquirer... an excellent news source. Really?
a
I believe you will find that the National Enquirer stole the story from a book which was recently published, therfore, the "original source" is not the National Enquirer. From what I caught on a news blurb was that the author went around Palin's home town asking for any available dirt on Palin, and got a truckload.

[DebbieL]

i've had this discussion with lots of different people. what brought this on today was reading the national enquirer and the story about sarah palin claiming she did cocaine, had an affair with a basketball player and so on. pretty much anyone in the public eye has a skeleton in the closet and i usually draw the same two conclusions.


Skeletons take many forms. For some it's sexual, for others it's bribes, graft, fraud, and extortion. For others it's embezzlement and profiteering on a massive scale. The fantasy that anyone who achieves great power never abuses it is generally only applied to the party and people you support.



1. who cares. (unless it harms, endangers or exploits women or children and then it makes me either very sad, angry or both.)
2. i'm not surprised.


There's an interesting irony here. A libral/democrat only has to engage in the slightest sexual indiscretion and his career is over. His own party is pushing for the purge.

Yet a Republican can completely disappear to Venezuela with his mistress, while the state looks for him, and the others in his party are rushing to his defense.

The irony is that it's the Republicans who want to regulate the bedroom by outlawing abortion, restricting access to birth control, and outlaw gay marriage.
It's the Democrats who claim to advocate sexual and religious freedom, including protection for non-christian religions.



i think it's a sign of the times, when i was a kid the thought was if you believe everything you hear, you're gullible. nowadays the thought is if you DON'T believe everything you hear your naive. so where am i going with this? well think about this. i don't have the exact numbers, it's not important but as far as demographics, percentages, segments of population and all that stuff that make up statistics consider this:

In the 1950s, if you questioned the government in public, you could be branded a communist, blacklisted, and driven to bankruptcy. Many of those who were blacklisted were even driven to suicide. Of course, even if you were willing to admit you were a communist, you had to give the names of other people you didn't even know, or that you knew were innocent as fellow communists. A tactic that went back to the inquisition.

Even in the 1960s, people who protested the Vietnam war were beaten to a bloody pulp with police batons and billy clubs. It wasn't until innocent bystanders were shot to death at Kent State that people began to rethink the consequences of questioning the government. But then we got the Pentagon Papers and ended up with a very legitimate reason to question the government, then Watergate and documentation of a corrupt government.

This was also the height of the sexual revolution, including the stonewall riots, and a feminist movement which achieved something far more important that equal pay for equal work. They changed the divorce laws nationwide to provide the woman with tax-free income amounting to 1/2 the husband's after-tax income - regardless of what the wife did.


1. combined there is probably about 10% of the population that is bisexual, gay or lesbian and this does not include those that fall into smaller groups that are fetishists.

According to the Kinsey and Hite reports, the percentages were much greater. Furthermore, there is an even greater proportion based on preferences and fantasies rather than just sexual history.

There is a wide spectrum - ranging from exclusively gay in practice and fantasies to mostly straight, with occasional gay fantasies. In addition, each gender has a different practices and preferences. Women are more likely to have actually experimented with other women, and enjoyed it, even if they prefer men.

The harsh reality is that probably only about 10-20% of all men and women are truly heterosexual (fantasies of them in their own sex seducing ONLY members of the opposite sex). Technically, a true heterosexual would prefer ANY member of the opposite sex to any member of the same sex. So given the choice between Rosie O'Donnel and Justin Bieber, they would choose Rosie.



2. how many people do you think practice fetishes like s&m, d&s, swinging, practice polyamory, and a lot of stuff just too gross to mention here.

Now we're getting into it. The reality is that nearly EVERYONE has at least one secret desire which causes them some amount of shame at some time in their lifetime, and may be unavailable to them in their current situation. There are men who want nothing more than oral sex from their wives, but their wives consider it disgusting, therefore they desire it even more.

Mature adults gradually work out some sort of resolution to their issues. This may mean taking turns fulfilling each other's fantasies or having an "Open Marriage" where each partner can get what they want from other partners who are just sexual partners.

I think the most perverse, cruel, and disgusting practice is when a couple makes a lifetime commitment to have sex only with each other, then refuse to indulge in each other's fantasies and end up not having sex at all. Or worse, sex becomes a tool one partner uses to manipulate the other partner into spending money they wouldn't otherwise spend, doing things they otherwise wouldn't do, and even having children or getting divorced. It's tantamount to castrating a man emotionally, then doing it again each time you "permit" him to have sex under terms of extortion. Of course, a key element is a very real threat that you will remove his balls through his wallet - child support, house, and alimony - if he attempts to go elsewhere.

Then there is the ultimate castration, divorcing him, getting half the after-tax income, plus alimony, while she lives with her live-in boyfriend who doesn't have to work because he blew his heart out smoking crack, or is suffering from depression, or hurt his back while lifting things while he was drunk. Then she can stage her own little accident and get workers comp and disability. Now she's got more income that you had when you were married, tax free, and she can stay home and have sex with her boyfriend all day long if she wants.



3. how many child predators that exploit children in a lot of vile ways, including incest, child prostitution, child pornography and the list goes on and on.

This is one nobody wants to make public. Most of the perpetrators are not the priests, but the Sunday School teachers, youth councilors, private school teachers, and other trusted authorities who are given very limited supervision. They often work as volunteers or at lower than standard rates, because "fringe benefits" are part of their total compensation package.



4. some people have legal issues, such as not being in this country legally, arrest warrants, convicted or at large criminals, embezzlers, cyber criminals, spies, members of organized crime families, drug dealers and the list goes on and on and on. a good number of these people could just disappear from the general population and either go into hiding, be murdered or sentenced to many years in prison if not life. who knows for sure what percentage of the population this is.

Let's go a bit further. Legal issues like cheating on their income taxes, or taking "legal" but fraudulent deductions such as getting incorporated as a church and making all of the household expenses deductible as contributions to charity, or creating a "business" that loses money as wife and children are "paid" out of the common income - the losses being written off as business expenses. Every 4 years, they find some new "business", usually an MLM, where they can start the whole process all over again. They can distribute hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxable income into the losing money business, and have all the money taxed at an absurdly low rate.

Or the people who shelter themselves through religious organizations. For example, tithing to a church so that their contributions can be given back in the form of "Scholarships" to the private schools whose tuitions are hiked artificially high to prevent non-members from sending their kids there.



5. people with substance abuse problems, either drugs or alcohol, gambling or other addictive behaviors, and don't forget mental health issues, co-dependency enablers and things like that.




6. domestic and foreign terrorists living in this country who wish to do us harm.
who knows how many have come in from our porous borders and don't forget the hate and extremist groups.

Again, you focus on the extremes. What about the corporate employee who pirates shareware for use in his corporation? Or the corporate employee who turns a blind eye to illegal activities like bid rigging, fraudulent billing, or violations of health and safety laws. Terrorist have brought down 6 planes in 30 years. Poor inspections, cutting corners, and violation of safety laws have brought down dozens.



7. i put this at the bottom of the list just because. there are a growing group of us who are crossdressers, either closeted or out, transgender, transvestite, and transexual. and who knows how many of us there are.


A lot more than anybody knows about, that's for sure. It's not something they asked about in the census. About the only way to truly know, would be to see how many men purchased women's clothing, in their size, with their credit cards. But doing this would be a serious invasion of privacy.



so after all this just two things.
1. look around at your neighbors, coworkers, family, friends, religious organizations. any groups you congregate with and just think, maybe wonder, who's doing what to who.
2. do we really need to live in fear of being found out? or is our group just one more drop in the bucket.
[/QUOTE]

When someone tries to claim that Gays, Transaxuals, or cross-dressers should be persecuted, I often responds with. Fine, then you have to tell me about EVERY sexual activity you have ever done, EVERY sexual fantasy you have ever had, and every financial transaction you've ever made, along with your tax statements for the last 20 years. If you're completely clean, then you can cast the first stone.

When they were about to stone the woman (supposedly Mary Magdalene), the crime she was accused of was breaking her own hymen (masturbation), and Jesus said "If any man is without THIS sin" (masturbation), then let him cast the first stone.

[docrobbysherry]

I get the gist of what is being said, to me the problem is that we all judge other people and that level of judgement varies from person to person. Religious people get accused of judging all of the time, but I have yet to meet anyone that does not judge others on one level or another. One person may judge Blacks more harshly, another may judge Gays harshly. Hatred, phobias, and fears rule many of the ways in which we judge others.answer, it didn't fit, question, do you have the reciept, yes, no more questions. ---------------------------LOL

My father explained "prejudice" to me in high school. I told him I wasn't prejudiced against blacks. At that time, there were none in our school.

He asked how many we had there. I said, "None".
He asked how I knew. I said because I would have noticed them.
He said, "Your prejudiced!" :eek:
I said I certainly am not!
To which he replied, Yes, u r. If u weren't prejudiced u would have answered, " I don't know". Because u WOULDN'T NOTICE WHAT COLOR PEOPLE R!:thumbsup:

[TGMarla]

All of you who are bagging on the National Enquirer forget that it was the Enquirer that exposed John Edwards's love child, Gary Hart's illicit affairs (which brought down his Presidential campaign), Jessie Jackson's love child, Rush Limbaugh's addiction to Oxycontin, Tiger Woods's affairs......

Hey, sometimes they get it right. It's salacious, crude, personal life stuff, but they do legitimately expose some big stories.

[Tina B.]

Cassandra, not sure I get your point, most of are not afraid of what the world at large think, it's those closer to home, I don't care what your preacher thinks about cross dressing, or cross dressers, but when it comes to my family, and friends, then I care, and they are who I'm in the closet for. Statistics don't help in those numbers. Oh, and bosses and co-workers.
Tina B.

[Aprilrain]

so after all this just two things.
1. look around at your neighbors, coworkers, family, friends, religious organizations. any groups you congregate with and just think, maybe wonder, who's doing what to who.
2. do we really need to live in fear of being found out? or is our group just one more drop in the bucket.

So be "out" if you want to be! there is a whole lot of mental masturbation that goes on here to the justification of being closeted. Hey if you want to live your life in the closet be my guest! whatever! it effects me NOT in the slightest HOWEVER that being said there is a whole lot of whining about how misunderstood CDers are. The General populations perception of CDers isn't going to change unless as a group CDers come out of the closet and defend themselves and say "that guy you saw on COPS isn't me!"

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Cassandra, I think your first mistake was reading that rag paper.

Orchid

[Karren H]

Hi Cassandra, I think your first mistake was reading that rag paper.

Orchid

What was her second one? Lol.

[Kaitlyn26]

What was her second one? Lol.

Using it as an example in a thread. As soon as you mention something as controversial as the national enquirer you can assume any point you were trying to make will be lost in the resulting "ZOMG that's not the real news" replies. :)

[cassandra54]

okay people.....maybe i didn't thread a little clearer. it is not about reading the national enquirer and believing what's in it. that's a fool's errand at best. and it's not about prejudice. this is a general observation that i've made throughout the years. so many people have something to hide. so many people in the public eye have been caught with their pants down. a lot of us keep our second lives hidden from others and for the most part, we all have good reason to do so. so i compiled a small list of all the things that other people have to hide and keep hidden in their lives for whatever reasons. i guess i am saying we are not alone in keeping secrets and some people have secrets that could create a lot of harm.

[VioletJourney]

2. how many people do you think practice fetishes like s&m, d&s, swinging, practice polyamory, and a lot of stuff just too gross to mention here.

What's wrong with any of those?

I think humanity as a whole needs to dump ALL their preconceptions about... well, everything regarding morality... and begin to judge morality objectively i.e. based on the objective benefits/harms.

[cassandra54]

What's wrong with any of those?

I think humanity as a whole needs to dump ALL their preconceptions about... well, everything regarding morality... and begin to judge morality objectively i.e. based on the objective benefits/harms.

nope, nothing wrong with most of what anyone can do, just stating facts about what people do. no judgement involved here.

[juno]

Many people like to see dirt on public figures because it help them feel better about their own dirt. The only problem is that people then hold it against them, rather than just laughing that they were caught being human. My vision of an ideal future is that the US president can host a fetish party, we will have fun talking about it, then vote for him/her again.

[cassandra54]

Many people like to see dirt on public figures because it help them feel better about their own dirt. The only problem is that people then hold it against them, rather than just laughing that they were caught being human. My vision of an ideal future is that the US president can host a fetish party, we will have fun talking about it, then vote for him/her again.

i can just see it now, obama in a tutu, michelle dressed as a dominatrix and whipping boehner.

[DebbieL]

But what if it was Obama in a miniskirt, Michelle as a dude, and Boehner trying to rape Sasha?

When Clinton was sued for attacking Paula Jones in something like a sexual assault, it wasn't that funny. When Lewinsky produced the blue dress, many assumed that Clinton raped her too. When she was interviewed in the Senate, and on national television admitted that she continued to sexually attack Bill Clinton even though he had said "No" several times, it made both cases almost laughable.

Unfortunately, legally, Lewinski Raped Clinton. The whole premise that Clinton tried to keep her from testifying because it would have helped Paula Jones case - blew up in their faces.

Just looking at the White House, the only President who had a truly monogamous lifestyle - Married to one wife and faithful to her for their entire marriage - was Richard Nixon. But Nixon was actively engaged in violating civil rights, cover-up of a criminal activity, and worse. The irony is that Nixon was taking the advise of his Marine Corps staff members who felt that they should never abandon their capture or wounded.

[DebbieL]

What's wrong with any of those?

I think humanity as a whole needs to dump ALL their preconceptions about... well, everything regarding morality... and begin to judge morality objectively i.e. based on the objective benefits/harms.

Actually, the most perverse twist of modern culture is the whole notion that we should use shame, guilt, terror, and humiliation to keep kids who as a species were designed to start breeding at 16-17 to wait until after they have graduated from High School, College, and have established their careers. Using intimidation to try and coerce men and women to remain sexually abstinent for 10 to 15 years, waiting until they are in their 30s before having children.

When St Paul writes to promote celibacy, he also refers to not "abusing your virgin". A woman was expected to remain chaste for 1 year following her first period. If her parents had not arranged a suitable marriage by then, the girl was free to arrange her own marriage. Furthermore, a woman who waited much beyond that, would be a target for the tax collectors who would want to take her in lieu of back taxes, so he could rent her out to the Roman Legion for a denari an hour.

The notion of monogamy was established by Octavian Caesar to keep his mother from forming an alliance with Mark Anthony after he had married Cleopatra, and to prevent someone from marrying his daughter and then marrying other wives after they became Emperor.

The Notion of the Nuclear Family was instituted in the 1940s, when soldiers were returned home from the war, but still in the reserves. After the start of Korea, they found that they could reduce resistance to redeployment of the veterans by moving them to other locations before sending them to combat.

Prior to the end of WW-II, the typical family was an extended family. In many cases, younger couples lived with their parents. Later the older parents lived with one of their children, because the children had to take care of them in their old age. As a result, the couple's parents would help them learn to resolve their differences, and teach them how to raise children. Couples married much younger, often the girls were 16 or 17 and the boys would be 19 or 20. The average age of first marriage was 21, with the median around 19.

In rural areas such as Tennessee, West Virginia, and Kentucky, a girl who wasn't married by the time she was 16 was an "old maid" and probably to bossy or homely to be suitable for marriage. Older girls would run away to the cities where they at least had a chance of snagging a man. But once they married a "City Slicker" there was no going back home.

In India, China, and South America, total population of about 3 billion, girls are still married off when they very young, usually about 1 year after their first period, while they still have a hymen. Waiting any longer puts them at risk of being kidnapped and sold into prostitution rings and sexual slavery.

[sometimes_miss]

This one is multi quoted, but I can't get it to come out right. So, anyway, here it is:

Cassandra wrote "3. how many child predators that exploit children in a lot of vile ways, including incest, child prostitution, child pornography and the list goes on and on."
Then Debbie wrote, " This is one nobody wants to make public. Most of the perpetrators are not the priests, but the Sunday School teachers, youth councilors, private school teachers, and other trusted authorities who are given very limited supervision. They often work as volunteers or at lower than standard rates, because "fringe benefits" are part of their total compensation package."
This one hits home personally; No, 'most' of the child molesters aren't priests. But they sure are the most visable, considering they are in such a position of power and trust, that when they abuse that to prey on our kids, it sure comes as a shock. Most of the time, people who molest children are very well known to that child, often a family member or close relative, or neighbor. It's that close relationship to the child that gets the child to trust them, and not tell their parents what's going on.
People, watch your children, no, watch ALL children carefully. If something seems not quite right, there's a very good possibility that it isn't. A huge percentage of kids are sexually abused; though girls still outnumber boys in this respect, the numbers are staggering: one in four girls, and one in six boys are subject to some type of unwanted sexual contact as children, initiated by an adult. Is it any wonder that so many people grow up screwed up when this continues to occur, right under our very noses.

[t-girlxsophie]

Here in the UK we dont need to buy the National Enquirer,the British mainstream Tabloids give us all the garbage,gutter news stories we need,And a positive Transgender news story is rarer than hens teeth,also I had enough being bored senseless about the lives of Z list,wannabe Celebs to last 2 lifetimes.I made a concious decision not to buy the trash anymore,l

Sophie