dont ask, dont tell:

[drushin703]

At twenty years old I was already a two year Navy veteran with a third class
stripe on my sleeve, stationed aboard a destroyer in Mayport Florida right outside
the Naval air station in Jacksonville.I shared a room in the baracks (when the ship
was in port) with a very dear fellow, also from Detroit, that I came to call friend.
Well, he came to me one night, his face sweating thru his foundation in the Florida
heat and with a shallow voice said, "Dana, wake up, ime going home".I remember
sitting straight up in my rack and said "what, your going where". "I am going home.
I have declared myself homosexual, they have issued me an admin (less than
honorable) discharge, and have asked me to leave the base asap." I had never
known a loss befor, at least not the loss of a friend. We had shared so much
talk and laughter. Had chided others not to do so but had mocked the Chief and
his country manerisms.Had ate our meals together and talked of back home, the
MOTOWN sound, hanging out, girls, our sexuality, the future....everything happened.
And the US Navy was not asking him, but making him go home because of his
sexual orientation. I never saw him again. When you hear the news tonight about
the armed forces finally dropping this rediculous principle and finally letting people
serve as an openly gay or transgendered person, without redicule or threat
without bigotry or slant, say to yourself, this is a great day........dana.



who me, a sissy?

[Josie M]

Hate to be overly cynical, but I think most should wait just a bit before outing themselves just in case some political maneuvering winds up getting this whole thing re-instated in a couple on months leaving a whole lot of soldiers who outed themselves in jeopardy.

or maybe I'm being overly pessimistic...

[Kaitlyn26]

Just another example of the wonderful freedom we enjoy in the United Fakes of America. I wonder how long the other countries that were not founded on personal freedom have been allowing this go on, before we finally made the change.

[Huntress]

DADT does NOT specifically cover Transgender service members. You might be able to slide through on a gay/lesbian claim, but watch your six. No pun intended.

[gretchen2]

ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

[TGMarla]

I don't appreciate the denegration of our country, Kaitlyn. Do we do everything right? Of course not. That doesn't mean we're fakes. DNDT was implemented by a President that most left-wingers hold in reverence, despite the fact that he was only the second one in history to get impeached. He was a perfect example of how, as human beings, we are not perfect, just like the country he led for a while. That policy was not aimed at prejudice towards homosexual persons; rather, it was designed to keep that prejudice from affecting the way our military worked within itself. On the surface, one can easily state that soldiers, like everyone else, need to grow up and handle the situation with a certain maturity and disaffection requiring them to leave such prejudices at the door. But we are talking about kids here - people who are often young adults in the prime of their own sexuality. I think we can all look back on those years, those of us who are older anyway, and know that we were not all that mature at that age ourselves. The repeal of DNDT is the right thing to do in a very highly idealistic sense. However, we may over time find that the realities of the situation do not always lend themselves to high ideals. So for the time being, the jury is certainly out on this one.

[RobynB]

Well said Marla. I agree.

[Vieja]

It may be permissible to serve openly as a gay person but it is still dangerous. Always watch your back.


Vieja

[Kaitlyn26]

Fake! If you think our country has the right to call itself "land of the free", you need to do some research. Our country is a giant bumper car ring, with a government making decisions for us, and overly regulating everything we do. Be an American, and demand your freedoms not be compromised. Too many people saying, "Oh well nobodies perfect", or "Gosh, I'm a democrat, I better vote democrat again" is why stuff like this keeps going on. Accepting excuses, and "good enough", won't cut it in daily life (good luck keeping your job, your home nice, and your vehicles in good working order if it is good enough for you), and it certainly won't cut it in my government.

Young adults in other countries enjoy the same problems, and even more freedoms than we do. They don't seem to have a problem with it. It's called having to grow up. Our country is so regulated that many adults never have to actually grow up, to get through life.

[sometimes_miss]

It may be permissible to serve openly as a gay person but it is still dangerous. Always watch your back.
^this.
Just because you have the right to do something doesn't always make it a good idea.

[Wendae]

Well there goes Cpl Klinger's chance for a section 8.

[Shelly67]

I blame facebook .
Even for bad weather .
Seriously tho ,
Nothins the same anymore , my goodness how we're all living in times so different from even as little as 10 yrs ago .
No privacey , no real respect unless its done in a hypocritical manner using ethics as an excuse .
Including in some areas a persons sexuality .
Pretty poor behaviour really as we're supposed to be inteligent civilised beings .
Nuff said.

[Marie-Elise]

Nothins the same anymore , my goodness how we're all living in times so different from even as little as 10 yrs ago .
No privacey , no real respect unless its done in a hypocritical manner using ethics as an excuse .
Including in some areas a persons sexuality .

The interesting thing is that all the privacy is what allowed the repression of sexual/gender minorities. If there is less privacy, more people will know of more preferences. Therefore, they will think themselves more "normal" and hopefully venture out into the world as they really are. Also, as more people become aware of different preferences, they will likely become more accepting because they will see whatever hidden preferences they have out in the world and not "abnormal" at all.

[Lori B]

I agree with Marla and Josie........I was a 2nd class Petty Officer in the Navy 72-76

[xd-tigger]

Todays events are amazing, it shouldn't matter if you are gay, straight, bi or transgendered to serve in the fources, just because you may be gay or a crossdresser, doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to serve for your country.

[Kaitlyn26]

How's that going btw?

Much better than the Apache tribes of western united states that once numbered in the millions a few hundred years ago but are currently under 6,000. The history books would have you believe that war with each other wiped them out, but ask an Apache, if they trust you, they'll tell you what happened.

[Sheren Kelly]

I have to contribute here...
DADT was a compromise, and by definition, not a perfect solution to allow the military to function as society changed.
We ask a lot of our enlisted in terns of sacrifice and maturity (when most states will not even allow them to drink legally) and adding the dynamic of sexuality with the ranks makes this even more challenging. On my ship, the average age of a crewmember was 19.5 years and back when DADT was enacted, discovery of a gay crewmember led to violence (which is why gays were taken off the ship as soon as possible). It was not the fault of those gay sailors, but the prejudice and fear of the non-gay 'straight" crewmembers. (Recall what happened to Army soldier Barry Winchell)

Today's youth have much more tolerance for diversity, so it is appropriate to lift DADT. There will still be many hurdles to overcome in the coming years, but slow change is better than no change.

We don't always live up to our ideals, but the important thing is that we keep trying to....

[Eryn]

...I shared a room in the baracks (when the ship was in port) with a very dear fellow,..."Dana, wake up, ime going home"..."...I have declared myself homosexual, they have issued me an admin (less than honorable) discharge,..."

This reads as though he outed himself in order to get discharged. Was that his intent?

[LoriFlores]

The end of DADT is wonderful progress, BUT it absolutely does not cover the transgendered. We must continue to remain in the closet and fearfull of discovery.

[CaitlynRenee]

I've mentioned it before so will mention it again. I'm here, alive and have had a great life. About 30 other guys are here alive on this world as well, thanks to seven men who died trying to save the lives of their comrades in Viet Nam. We knew that at least three of those who died were gay. Sorry folks, but their blood was just as red and they died just as dead as anyone else. These were really good Marines who just happened to be a bit different. Not 'bad' different, just different. They never pushed their sexuality, were honest about it (hey, what was anybody going to do?? Send them to a combat zone??), and got on with the mission. These guys were of different races, religions and economic backgrounds. Above all, they were Warriors.

It was then that I decided to never question the loyalty of or the dedication to this country of ANY young person who wore the uniform, regardless of their sexuality, gender identity, etc.

I don't believe that the very complicated subject of sex, sexuality, gender identity, etc. should ever be singled out for special treatment or consideration. Quite frankly, I feel it should be a non-issue.

[drushin703]

eryn:
in retrospect, I dont think he was trying to get discharged but I do believe he had grown tired of the snears and finger-pointing, tired of being labeled
as a fag.On this forum we openly talk of our courage; the courage to go to the mall enfemme or to take a walk aroung the block.We anamously
(me especially) discuss with eachother this wonderful fantasy we share but the closet that holds my bras, wigs and breastforms is locked up
like a bank. I love me. I love my femme self. I love my pantyhosed legs and my look but I wonder if I would love me so deeply if my secret was
lost.......dana

[Tina B.]

62 to 64 I served aboard a Navy ship, for a year I had a bunk across from a kid from back east, He never claimed to be gay, but spent weekends in Sam Francisco, meeting friends in gay bars, one even rented him an apartment in the city, if loved talking about his sexual exploits, and all of us knew about them, and no one ever outed him or hassled him at all, and a good deal of my unit where rednecks out to the south, and even they didn't have a problem with him. People seem better at this getting along, than government gives us credit for. As for DADT, it was wrong, but better than it was before, when you could be thrown out because someone thought you might be gay. But it is way past time that all of that where scraped, we have all grown up some, maybe we will grow up enough someday, to give everyone else the same break.
Tina B.

[Vieja]

Well there goes Cpl Klinger's chance for a section 8.

I love it LOL. Klinger and the whole cast made me laugh. I miss them.

Vieja

[JulieK1980]

62 to 64 I served aboard a Navy ship, for a year I had a bunk across from a kid from back east, He never claimed to be gay, but spent weekends in Sam Francisco, meeting friends in gay bars, one even rented him an apartment in the city, if loved talking about his sexual exploits, and all of us knew about them, and no one ever outed him or hassled him at all, and a good deal of my unit where rednecks out to the south, and even they didn't have a problem with him. People seem better at this getting along, than government gives us credit for. As for DADT, it was wrong, but better than it was before, when you could be thrown out because someone thought you might be gay. But it is way past time that all of that where scraped, we have all grown up some, maybe we will grow up enough someday, to give everyone else the same break.
Tina B.

This was my own experience in the Navy. We all knew certain people were gay, mostly though we simply didn't care, they were our shipmates, and they did their job just as well as the rest of us. The military, despite it's reputation is very capable of being a non-judgmental non-bigoted organization. (with some exceptions of course) But, mostly those fighting have more important things to worry about then what two people do together.

Maybe the US does not live up to its ideals, but that does NOT by any means mean we should abandon our ideals and accept it as it is. What makes this country great is NOT that its perfect or even that we are currently free. What makes this country great is that we continue to strive to achieve our ideals. Sometimes we move forward, sometimes we move back, but we are always trying to move forward.

[Kaitlyn26]

and no one ever outed him or hassled him at all, and a good deal of my unit where rednecks out to the south, and even they didn't have a problem with him.

When you take the redneck out of the south they tend to stfu very quickly. :) Most of them have a hard time in the military because the majority of soldiers are always from the city. My grandpa got made fun of all through basic because of it. They would put rocks in his boots at night, to make him feel more at home while marching (shoes are not a necessity in the south). I think what every redneck needs is to go in the military. It definitely gives them a kick in the rear end as far as tolerance of others goes. It probably does the same for anyone, but they especially need it.