Hard Rock Cafe 1pm Saturday

[Lainie]

Lunching in necklace, grey woman's strap-cuff linen shirt, black Chico's stretch T, black knee-length pencil skirt, shaved legs, black ballet flats, carrying a black leather evening purse. And handle bar mustache.

No complaints or special notice. 2 block back to the parking lot, then home.

[sissystephanie]

I ate lunch at TGI Fridays wearing a knee length dark brown skirt with a shimmery turquoise top and of course the usual feminine undergarments. I also wore brown sandals and my usual mustache and goatee!! I am sure people looked at me when I walked in, and back out, but no one said anything!! Of course I have been doing the same thing for 6 years now!!

Scarlet, it is not exhibitionism on my part at all. It is wearing what I like to wear, not what the public might think I should wear. The fact that I have a mustache and goatee is immaterial. My dressing, and that of the writer of the OP, is our business and no one elses!

[MissMarcie]

The fact that I have a mustache and goatee is immaterial.
You're certainly entitled to think that, if you want. But no, it's really not immaterial. If you're happy and content with your appearance, that's all that matters - right? As long as you're ok with people talking about you behind your back, it's your thing - do what you wanna do.

[Sandra]

Good for you Lainie for doing what you feel comfy with. How you were dressed sounds very nice.

People ought to realise that people dress and present how they want to, and as in Lainie's case she is not being an exhibitionist, she is just being how she wants.

[Sara Jessica]

I've admitted in the past that I often have a hard time getting my head around presentations such as what is described here. But I would never go so far as to say the person is some sort of exhibitionist. And it would be quite hypocritical if I were to pass judgement of any kind. I have reservations that I might express in a thoughtful discussion but to be judgmental, never.


Anyone who dresses eccentrically and against common conventions of dress....knowingly....are willfully and knowingly attracting attention to themselves. I'd call that exhibitionist.

Then by your definition, any of us in these pages who does not pass 1000% (which is likely 99% of us) is an exhibitionist. I go out and I am certain that I am often read as being TG which does fly in the face of common conventions of presentation. Yet I'm here to tell you, I'm not exhibitionist.

[DW]

I have gone out fully dressed, still with mustache myself. Nervous, but fun. I like to dress femme, don't care if I pass.

[lil red]

Why is it that no matter what someone posts, as a happy experience for them, someone here has to act like an as$ and say something negative?! Like mom always said, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, SHUT UP! Don't just be happy for someone with the same type of interest as you, tell them how much you don't like it, THAT SUCKS I for one am glad that Lainie had a good time, as well as a good meal.

[Elizabeth Ann]

I don't have any opinion about the original poster, but what. exactly, is wrong with exhibitionism?

Liz

[BLUE ORCHID]

I don't see a problem I had an aunt that had a mustache.

Orchid

[Elizabeth Ann]

If someone wants to dress that way, that's their choice.
The fact that I find it eccentric and irrational is mine.


But everything in all three of yours posts indicates that you strongly disapprove. I wouldn't dress that way, but I don't particularly care if they do. You seem to be offended by it, which is what startled everyone here. Your "exhibitionist" remarks had a distinctly derogatory tone to them.

Eccentric and irrational would have been if they said they wore plaids with polka dots.

Liz

[Sara Jessica]

Scarlet, no one is calling you an "ass". And I have admitted having some difficulty with OP's presentation so in that we have some common ground. My point is that we are all in a similar boat, or at least those of us who go out into the real world. We are all flying in the face of convention, some might even say decency (they're wrong of course). But to cast stones when living in a house made of really cheaply made glass, well you know how that saying goes.

And in thinking through this whole thing, I believe I have found where I draw my own personal line in the sand when it comes to presentations that are decidedly blending genders (strong elements of both male & female rather than someone who is on the androgynous road). My line has to do with whether the person is living this way all the time versus going out here and there in mixed-mode presentation. If they live FT, they are living their dream the way they see fit and I see no harm in that. When done part time, it comes across to me as being a "shock value" thing which is where I have difficulty, mostly because I believe it to be something which tends to drag down our community in the eyes of the Muggles.

Then again, someone could say the EXACT same thing about any of us who presents as female in public on a part-time basis. See how nasty those stones can be? They turn on you very quickly.

[Torrey]

I do strongly disapprove. That's why.

Scarlet, dear, it's not your place to approve or disapprove. You are being judgmental, and in this environment, there are a wide variety of presentations and comfort levels. You, dear, are just being mean.

If you do not understand, fine. Name calling is not apropos. The only person who could be hurt by it is the OP, and she is fully aware of the presentation she delivers, based on the the post. I, for one, applaud anyone who goes out, passing or not. As Popeye said, "I am who I am."

Please reconsider the tone of your comments. You may find it distasteful for someone to respond to your posts in kind.

Hugs,
Torrey

[CynthiaD]

If I went to McDonalds in a pink tutu, green tights and Mickey Mouse head, playing a tuba...

I'd pay real money to see that!

[Torrey]

I'd pay real money to see that!

So would I...it would certainly be worth the price of admission.

[Badtranny]

Wow, I don't often get a chance to call out a CD on their BS and I'm especially thrilled to defend one of my pet topics; individuality.

Scarlet, you and I agree on at least one thing, I would never go out with a skirt and a mustache. Heck, my whole transition is being scheduled around clearing the hair off of my face. I won't go full time until I'm finished or damn close to it. Clearly I have very strong feelings about how I want people to see me, so I understand why you don't understand.

What we don't agree on is your strident position on what should be acceptable. With all due respect, did you ever consider that you might look as silly to me as Lainie does to you? There is a prevalent opinion among serious cross dressers and TS girls that being seen with a "part time" CD is tantamount to walking around with a sign that says "Look at us!" I pass fairly well when I'm with GG friends, but if I'm with someone who is easily read, then I get read next. You see there is a spectrum to everything and as I move closer to the female side thanks to modern medicine, the male side tends to look more and more foreign to me, mustache or not. Personally, I don't really see a difference between a very masculine man making every effort to "pass" and a man with a beard who likes to cross dress. They both look like men so what's the difference?

I think what we can all agree on is the need for more acceptance, or at least tolerance of all manner of gender diversity. Like it or not, Lainie is out there fighting that battle. I for one applaud her.

We don't need to understand each other, but we should at least endeavor to support each other.

[msginaadoll]

Well I for one applaud the writer for getting out dressed as they choose. Hey and if someone wants to wear a green tutu to McDonalds god bless them. I think a lot of us do get looked at when we go out. So the question is do we stay in or say hey I have as much right to be out as anyone. I like hanging with other cd's and am not concerned how they look. That is there choice what they wear. I have never bought into myself being brought down or judged by the actions or appearances of others. I certainly dont consider myself the Cd representative or ambassador. I am just me, and I try to leave people will a pleasant opinion of myself.

[sara.s]

Well said badtranny... Every person should have the freedom to dress however they want. We say, we have freedom of expression but yet we critically criticize others when they express. What a hypocrisy in the society. We are so eager to classify people and create boxes, and then call the people who don't fit in as weirdo, freaks etc... Reminds me of the Nazi era.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Have you got yourselves in such a tangle of political correctness that it is impossible to express a genuine view of a subject without the fear of being thought 'judgemental'. I have an opinion. An opinion IS a judgement.


Scarlet,
I have some sympathy for your position, and I certainly think you are entitled to express your opinion, and, though I may not like it, to be judgmental about it. But it is not true that an opinion is a judgement (although a judgement is an opinion).

It is the difference between an objective statement (a fact), and a normative statement (a value). If I tell you that I don't like green, that is an objective statement. If I tell you that green is an ugly color, that is a normative statement (i.e. a value judgement). You can say that you don't like the mustache/dress combination, that it is troublesome to you, and that you think it subjects them and/or you to ridicule. All those are objective opinions.

Even to say "I disapprove" can be an objective statement if it simply means that you don't like it. Where it strays into a normative, value judgement is if you mean that it is somehow "wrong" which many of us interpret you as saying.

However, though my faith in value judgments has withered over the years, I still cling to one: the belief that a completely free flow of ideas and opinions is vital to progress, technical or moral. So, I support your desire to be able to discuss this openly. But to my mind, the essence of political correctness is the humility to believe you do not possess the absolute truth (and normative statements get unnervingly close). Sort of the scientific method applied to social issues.

Liz (who has seen enough discrimination against minorities to be PC)

[kimdl93]

For the record, I think that its OK to go out en femme with facial hair, and its OK for an individual to express an opinion to the contrary.

We don't have to be totally accepting and totally vanilla all the time. Its a discussion board....discussion does not require unaniminty of opinion or universal approval. Otherwise, we might as well just skip the discussion and all hum in unison.

[Lainie]

Actually I do have some reservations about exposing the public to a man in a dress (me) since I do not want to upset people, and have no right to create a public disturbance.

I post these notes to reassure our fearful sisters that basic safety awareness, which everyone should always have on the street, will suffice. Forgot to mention that the lunch in question occurred on the Riverwalk in San Antonio TX, a major tourist attraction for families, retirees, and off-duty military personnel. Afterwards drove home to Sugar Land TX, and stopped at a Valero station on I-10 for gas & coffee, still en femme. The cashier & I chatted about the drought & heat, not my attire. I did change there into drab for the last 100 miles on the road (much less fun) because my wife wants to stay in denial.

I'm completely out to strangers, but still not willing to share this with friends & family.