any bad experiences being out in public.

[cassandra54]

i was telling my SO about sue's busy weekend. i told her that nobody really notices us when were out.

so she asks me, and i'm asking you has anyone every had BAD experiences being out in public?

[Karren H]

Nope. Not really. Most have been great... No one cared and those that I come in contact are always pleasant. Ok there was this one time I got yelled at by the casino security guard for taking photos of myself on the casino floor.. "Excuse me ma'am...". Lol. But he was really nice about it.

[Staci G]

In the mall I ran into a group of teenagers that thought it would be cool to laugh at the guy in a dress. I settled it with the oldest and biggest one of the bunch, when I left they were laughing at him.
I tend to stay away from malls during the weekend after that.

[NathalieX66]

Nope.....not yet.
Really.

Look at it this way: even if you are someone with less than flattering attributes, like let's say you are about the size of Shaquille O'Neal, you are still making someone's sad and dull life interesting when you are out & about. Most of us are somewhere between Shaq and Jennifer Anniston. Interact with people and be happy and confident. It will rub off.

[tiffanyjo89]

Some smaller "mom and pop" type shops would probably not be so kind towards crossdressers, as they tend to have to fight to even keep a consistent customer base while at the same time building one...some "female clothing boutiques" (if you will, I say that because some are merely used clothing stores...) tend to only have one set of fitting rooms...and they tend to not have many males even set foot in them. Someone who is a very presentable CD might not stir anything up, but an unpassable CD might.

Walmart / Target / the mall can afford one or two stir ups within a reasonable time period without losing business, since so many people go in and out. A smaller store wouldn't have such a luxury since they struggle during certain months.

[dilane]

Well, it obviously depends on if you pass...a snotty rude person won't say anything to a (percieved) woman, but oh boy, if you're read, they'll be all over you. Fortunately, only a minority of people are snotty and rude. That's one reason it's so important to pass if you want to mix it up in public.

Unfortunately, facial features and body type are inherited (although you can at least lose weight to help with the latter).

Fortunately, most people, if they read you, just give you a stare, or maybe whisper something to their companions.

[Karen__Starr]

Last month I went to my regular food store dressed as a man and got some interesting looks which for me was not a great experience. I did not think that would of had happen.

[Eryn]

I'm not very experienced at being in public, but I can't think of a bad experience. A few bumbles and mistakes on my part, but nothing caused by another. I steeled myself for the worst, but it never happened!

Interacting with men is a bit odd, though. They tend to look at me a few inches lower than I'm used to in male mode...

[Sophie86]

My friend Christy had a bad experience (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?143097-I-was-the-prettiest-girl-in-the-world-until...) at Ross last November. I read another thread yesterday about a girl who was stopped at a seat belt check in Georgia and discovered that due to a snafu with her insurance company, her license had been suspended. She was arrested and held over night. During frisking and processing it came out that she was underdressed. The cops were not nice about it.

The good stories are far more common than the bad stories, but bad things occasionally happen.

[Miss Maxine]

I have had only one. I was still active duty Air Force, at the time. I got off work, one afternoon, and Missa and I decided to go to the BX to do some quick shopping. I wore a nice polo shirt, pencil skirt, and heeled boots. The next day at work, both my supervisor and NCOIC told me that they had received several phone calls from people that recognized me, in the BX. By the end of the week, I was in my commander's office, in full service dress, being told that my appearance would bring bad press to the military and that I was not allowed to wear skirts on base. That left a lasting negative impression on me, concerning military leadership and the rules they impose. I still haven't quite gotten over it.

[thechic]

Sometimes criticized when out working on a job for a client, our company gets rung up for making a woman do a mans job ,and the job needs a man,also get quiestioned on what im doing,to many male chauvinistic people around in my trade.

[erickka]

Not really. Back in the beginning of my public excursions, a few snickers, but that's about it.

[Vicky_Scot]

Im am over 6ft so blending in becomes a problem. I have been out numerous time shopping in busy towns and cities dressed and I have had stares, comments like is that a guy, had people follow me and drag their partners round to show me to them, had pointed fingers, giggles etc.

The way I see it is if someone has to take a second look I must be doing something right.

What you mighty have noticed is I have not had any negative or abusive comments or any threats or violence towards me when I have been out and about.

So I totally agree with Nathalie




Look at it this way: even if you are someone with less than flattering attributes, like let's say you are about the size of Shaquille O'Neal, you are still making someone's sad and dull life interesting when you are out & about.

[DAVIDA]

Yes, well, almost.:heehee:
I was in a restaurant once and when we got up to leave, my skirt headed toward the floor!:eek:
I caught it just in time to prevent others from seeing that I was under-dressed too!:o

[Cynthia Anne]

Small town Ladys shoe store, 1988! I went in there 'dressed' to purchase a pair of heels! The older ''lady'' didn't want me shopping in her store! Instead of telling me ''she'' called the police! On the way out I said to her that I'm sorry that my money wasn't good enough for her!

[JenniLyn]

Went to jc pennys and had some teenagers follow me until I was at the checkout counter. That was when I knew future shopping trips I would have to look my best. At 6'1 I am a tall woman.

[kimdl93]

so far, nothing terribly upsetting. An adolescent girl giggled a bit, but her mom was very friendly. I don't take great offense at immaturity from a child. Probably would be more offended if it was an adult.

[Chickhe]

Nope. The only negative was once when I tried using my natural hair instead of a wig and an older couple in the store stopped and looked and pointed at me from the end of the isle is amusement... until they saw me look their way, then they scurried away. Otherwise, I would have to say, the largest issue is my own attitude...stress, worry and keeping a smile on my face. Once you realize nothing bad will happen its easier to look happy. When you look happy people are more positive toward you.

[eluuzion]

Well, this story is long and a bit off the track...but it was out in public and definitely a bad experience...so I will share it.

Just over a week ago I made the stupid decision to drive 1200 miles back to the Midwest for a funeral instead of flying. Since the “festivities” were over the night before I decided to make it a CD road-trip home to Denver, since I could dress in my room before departure. (17 hour drive...only about 14 hours if you drive 90mph, :thumbsup:).

I got up, spent a half hour getting all tricked out and was out the door of my hotel and on my way...5” pumps, LBD, stocked cooler and as unbelievable as it was...just a cloudy day instead of the typical rain. I am going to just skip ahead about 5 hours into my trip and get to the “good” part of my story.

I won’t share specifics since I am not sure just who might end up reading this re-cap.
I was on I-xx going the speed limit, minding my own business when I came over the last rolling hill of the road just outside the city limits of a major city. There in the median between the highways sat an intimidating looking unmarked patrol SUV. For whatever reason, my sixth-sense Murphy’s Law feeling kicked in just as I passed by the patrol vehicle.

I looked back in the rear view mirror...and sure enough...the SUV pulled out, whipped around and headed out in my direction behind me. I immediately went into red alert mode...steering with my body as I franticly ripped off my heels, LBD, panty hose and wig and tried to change into my shorts/tee shirt on the passenger seat. (Before they caught up close enough to see me changing).

By the time I had my shorts & shirt on...they were riding in the passing lane next to me, about a car length behind me. No flashing lights...yet. Then they kicked it and blew right by me. At that point I reached over the cooler in the passenger seat to grab the LBD I tossed on the floor. As I was reaching I hit the gear shift and knocked the tranny into neutral! I had no choice but to pull off to the side, stop to a dead stop, and shift it back into drive. (Just what I needed...make a “scene”...).

So, after I accomplished that, I was back on the road again. Just as I cleared the next rolling hill...there was the SUV sitting in the crossover ahead of me. As soon as I passed by...they pulled out and headed my way again...this time with lights flashing. A minute later I was handing over my license, reg and insurance card to an officer sticking his head in my passenger window, who informed me that I was “straddling” the white line going down the interstate (which was absolutely not true). Then, he glanced in the back seat and saw my wig on the back seat... www.dramabutton.com ...

He asked me who the wig belonged to... In my hypnotized road trip state of mind, I blurted out...”It’s my daughter’s”. Wrong answer... He asked me to get out of my vehicle, and the nightmare began...

By the time I came around the back side of my car the other “agent” was there to start questioning me, while one was in the SUV running my data. Both dressed in black jeans, black tee-shirts, black caps, weapons strapped to the lower leg (swat team-ish scenario) and of course...the standard dark “Terminator” sunglasses. These guys were not State Troopers and it was not a Crown Victoria they were driving. These two were on a mission...and I was some how part of it...

There I was standing there at the side of the road, in my shorts/tee shirt with face make-up on...let the games begin...

After returning with my license/etc. the “big guy” repeated his BS reason for pulling me over as “concern for my ability to drive”, then started in with his 50 questions...25 of them being the same ones I just answered a minute ago for his partner. It quickly became obvious that they were convinced I was a drug runner transporting drugs from the East to the West coast, and they were on a mission to become station house “heroes” by busting me.

They started in on the only flimsy justification they could think of...which was the fact that my legs were shaved, eyebrows lined, had make-up on and the wig was “obviously” mine. (Which meant I “lied”). (when I was talking with the younger agent alone, I managed to get him to slip up and mention that my vehicle “fit the profile of a drug runner”>>>>Sports car, custom spoiler on back, tinted glass, my Colorado plate encased in a frame that said “Fort Lauderdale xxxxx” (Florida, where I bought the car and had a condo). All this added up to me fitting the “profile” of a drug trafficker. Go figure...

15 more minutes of trying to trip me up with tricky questions, implicating comments about being a CD and trying to convince me I should “just be honest with them and “own up to the truth” about the wig being mine and what I was really doing driving my car... (Which I of course, I refused to confirm and denied having anything to do with any of their “suggestions”). Next came the “mind if we have a look in your vehicle” question, after they had sufficiently intimidated me, which was quickly followed by shoving a “written consent" form and a pen in my hand and pointing to where I "needed to sign it". I foolishly decided to consent rather than refuse the search...because I wanted to get home ASAP.

Twenty minutes later, my entire luggage and contents of my car were emptied out on the side of the Interstate being attacked by every insect in an entomology manual, lol. They even tore apart my large carry luggage, because they were convinced it was “too heavy” when it was empty. (It had a built-in handle/roller wheel assembly). They discovered my pellet pistol (legal to carry in car) in one of the bags in my trunk, which seemed to be a disappointment upon discovering it was just a pellet gun...and ejected the loaded clip which landed in a pile of dirt on the ground. After coming up empty handed, I endured about 10 more minutes of mind twisting interrogation from them, trying to get me to just “be straight with them about being a Crossdresser with a drug problem”. (It was now about 50 minutes since I was first pulled over).

I continued to admit to nothing and deny everything associated with their objective. I finally just advised them there was nothing to “admit to”, I cooperated fully, I did not have anything to do with drugs.................and it was time for them to go ahead and do whatever they needed to do about it...because it was time for me to call my attorney. They both went back inside their vehicle, after advising me they had to “check in with their supervisor” or whatever the title was....to let him make the call.

They left me standing next to my empty trunk watching bugs invade my clothes on the ground for about 5 minutes...then came out again. They advised me they were going to “cut me a break” this time and to “take off”. I proceeded to pile my stuff back in the trunk and car while doing my best impression of being the incredibly grateful recipient of the generosity of the two for letting me “go”.

After making sure I did not stop until I was out of that politically dysfunctional state, my curiosity got the best of me... I stopped at a rest area, went back to the trunk, and searched everywhere for my pellet gun. Guess what?...it was not there. Gee, what a cough,cough...“surprise”. I guess they just forgot to put it back, eh? Go figure...

Anyway, I know there are several members of law enforcement here...I am not meaning to cast any generalized negative shadows on them or their duties/credibility...
Somebody has to keep an eye what little common sense behavior is left in this twisted moral society we live in these days. It is just like any issue, circumstance or contact with various other organizations and companies unrelated to law enforcement... “s**t happens” sometimes in the course of trying to do the right thing.

“Sometimes you are the Dog...Sometimes you are the Hydrant”. Just another day in Paradox...

So, there is my story. No, there was no cop making me perform oral sex or anything like some of the other law enforcement confabulation recap nonsense that people have posted on this forum, lol.

Hey, I said it was my story, I never said it was going to be an interesting one...:heehee:

Carry on Citizens...lol.

[StaceyJane]

Once a small girl blurted out in a store "that's a man!"

other than that I have had no problems and I live right in the middle of Texas and have gone to some very public places.

[Kittyagain]

Eluuzion, that was just plain scary.

Kitty

[sandra-leigh]

Yes, it does happen.

About two weeks ago, I was speaking to a couple of transitioning gals. One of them in particular says she gets negative remarks or bad treatment or outright threats pretty much every day. For example, a guy bicycling by, riding on the sidewalk she was walking on, threatened to knife her if she didn't cross over to the other side of the street (moving off on to the grass wasn't sufficient for him!)

I haven't had anything that bad happen. I've had some annoying things happen like being followed crossing a street by a fellow who said "I know your secret!". There was another time when I was followed as I was walking down the road, by a guy driving a car, who was taking pictures of me and calling out to me things like, "You're cute! Do you want some work at a party later tonight?"

I've also been in some potentially dangerous situations. There is a spot in the city where I have now twice been called after / put down by a gang (and I mean that in the sense of an organized violent group with a gang name and connections to organized crime.) They didn't bother to follow up either time, but I could tell both times that it would not have taken much at all for one of them to get pushy at the very least. Another time, a group of high-school boys threatened me as I walked through an overpass between two malls. A different time, a large and obese boy of perhaps 11 years old started talking very loud about how he hated me and wanted to kill me and wanted to crush my head; he was trying to attract the attention of other passers-by, hoping that they would join in.

I don't recall the other things at the moment.

On the other hand, I have also been treated quite well or even simply just been left alone in places where one would normally expect trouble.

[Kaz]

When ou in public I have 'felt' uncomfortable by the looks of some guys, but so far so good... no 'looks' from women. But those looks did phase me out and I lost confidence.

The big story I want to recall is the guy at work who has come out and is CDing every day. He got immediate acceptance in his office area.. this built his confidence... I had the great pleasure of sitting with him at a recent black tie work event, and at a recent informal social event, as well as seeing the office team regularly. He walks about the building 'bold as brass' and is 100% accepted. Not the same on the streets apparently... but nothing major.

I am amazed by his acceptance and I need to get braver!

[Ellyn]

One obvious thing to do is carry a cell phone preferably with quick dial, set to 911. Where I live you can get 6 years for threatening. With a knike involved, a charge of assault would be more likely even if the victim was not knifed. The second thing is also obvious as well; keeping out of bad areas, such as "a spot in the city..". is essential to anyone, man woman or child who wishes to continue breathing. I had a friend, now deceased, who had a nephew who was warned to keep out of "a spot in the city", and disobeyed so he could go with his friends to watch Asian gangs fight a turf war, and he was shot by a stray bullet. Neither Police or Emergency Medical would enter the scene to rescue him, and he bled to death on the sidewalk. He was 14.

[sissystephanie]

I have been a crossdresser for some 70 years!! In all that time I have never has one single negative remark made to me. Sure, they may have been made but not so I could hear them!! And I have been out dressed enfemme in just about any location you can think of!! I go out now dressed totally enfemme. but with no wig or makeup!! So I am obviously a man dressed enfemme!! Still no comments. People don't care, as long as long as you are dressed more or less decently!

[Wendy_Marie]

I left a TG Support group meeting after 9:00 p.m. one night heading home only to run into a Thunderstorm just a few minutes after I departed... Unbeknownst to me I had attracted the attention of a car full of college age guys and a couple of younger looking girls...6-people in total crammed into an old trashy looking Ford Sable.

They followed me for several miles in total even turning down otherwise empty street and seemed very intent to match pace with me despite my attemps to first speed up and then slow down, even turning into a Fast food Facilities Parking lot..leaving me somewhat unnerved.

I checked my cell phone to make sure I had service and then pulled back out and made my way down the street towards home I didn't see them pull out behind me so thought they had given up harrassing me...as I pulled up to a double left turn lane at one of the major intersection near home...lo and behold here comes the Sable and as it pulls up beside me this time the two passenger side windows come down and a slew of derogatory remarks are thrown my way....

The older guys in the car seemed content trying to impress the younger females by just how macho they were...so I chose to ignore them and did not make any attempt to return comment.

I already had a planned exit if I deemed it necessary to drive away...I also had my phone ready to call 911 if the situation escalated and as a last resort I had a loaded 9mm handgun in the console of the Dodge Durango 4X4 I drive with me...

I do carry it legally and in accordance to Missouri's Castle Doctrine Law. (Before anyone remarks on my choice to carry a firearm know that I have had professional training with local law enforcement and private agencies...and am very educated on Missouri's Carry Laws. I choose to take my own safety seriously, and that is one thing that will never change!)

I was relieved when the light changed and saw that they decided I was no fun since I had chosen to ignore their obvious attempts to bait me into a confrontation so they sped away....I did take note of the tag number and wrote down a description of the vehicle, its occupants and the last known direction of travel and decided that a call to the local Police department was warranted....I receieved a nice Thank You from the Springfield Police Department after explaining that I was Transgender and returning from a Support group meeting...and made my way on home.

[Sam-antha]

I am thankful that I live in the Uk when I read of the standard of police care of crossdressers that they "find". Once I was stopped by a police car - a minor offence - and I would note that neither policeman queried or remarked on my presentation. That was in the seventies, not in the naughties nor the eighties.
As far as people are concerned I have never had any hassle, with one exception, some boys, aged around ten, followed me into a station, laughing and shouting at my "condition". A nuisance they were, until the train arrived when they lost me. Nobody on the platform bothered with me, they were more amused by the boys.

[2B Natasha]

Last weekend I had a girl weekend with my SO and a LBD party out Saturday night. At the lounge we started out at I caught a couple of double takes. Nothing serious. Nothing the rest of the night. The next day though. We went out to a late breakfast. After ordering at a panera bread. We headed for coffee and napkins. I turned to look over the dinning room floor. An air force mucky muck and his wife? I guess where sitting there. I see him gesture my direction. His lady friend turn around. Give me the clear once over. Next. My SO asked me where I want to sit. I told her. " Over there at that table directly across from the military guy. ". So we did. Figured if he was going to act that way I would give them a close up look without having to try so hard. Plus. If I could make him squirm a little the better. I'm 6'4" without heels and tip the scales at around 230. He didn't scare me. Putz.

Bit of all the times I've been out. Nothing really and. A turned head. A double take. Big deal. No pitch forks or torches.

[Amanda22]

No bad experiences at all. I'm attending a "Girl's Night Out" hosted by and at my local art museum. I hope it goes well, although I'm a little nervous.

[LauraEwing]

I've painted my nails a light pink before going out, a few people looked but nothing bad came from it.

[kellycan27]

I guess it all depends on what one considers a bad experience. I got the holy s**t kicked out of me in an underground parking garage. having teenagers laugh or ridicule me isn't in my book a bad experience but more of an annoyance.

[Cheryl T]

An occasional comment (nothing really bad) or the secretive looker who can't take their eyes off me or my friends when we're out, but nothing I would consider bad. Most people don't really care and the rest are generally nice and well mannered.
We were in Kohl's one day and as I was talking to my gf (cd) I spied this little old lady peeking around the rack. She was about 4'8" and it was soo cute. She'd look and then go a few feet away to her husband and whisper and then come back. She did this about 4 times...we got a good laugh out of it.

[Angela2me]

No bad experience yet. I was pulled over by the local police on my way home from a dinner with the local CD/TS social group. I was dressed but no makeup and not passable. The officer (female) dealt with my minor offence without comment and I was on my way.

[Nicole Erin]

We have all had annoyances and some have had bad experiences.
I have had annoyances.
You learn some things -
people who talk trash are usually idiots who are not worth worrying about. I mean seriously, decent people don't go around laughing at others. So for the idiots like the younger insecure males, teenage girls, or the riff raff that infests certain areas, you would not care about then whether you were CD/TS or not.
Take yourself out of the CD/TS mentality for a second and think, "Would I care what they think or would I want to associate with them anyways?" So why care if they don't approve of you being who you are?
Of course do your best to avoid those types no matter what you are doing or how you are dressed.

Also that whole "confidence/passing" bit - I don't pass the greatest but these days I get less harassement than before. Reason, I quit worrying. Confidence does go a long way to avoid harassment.

[PretzelGirl]

I think our perceptions can come into play on this too. If you are looking for people to notice, then you will see them notice even if they might be looking for other reasons (you are wearing a cute top...). I have yet to have someone say something to me, but I have some that gave me looks. I must have a lot of cute tops! :heehee:

[Miss Maxine]

Once I was at a party and I broke two nails. It was one of the worst experiences of my life!

[Amy Hepker]

Yes, I had a bad deal at a Mall, Teenagers spotted me and then proceeded to stare and talk behind my back and I thought the Girls were going to pass out when I went into the Ladies to use the restroom. It was pack and I had to wait in line. No one else said anything, but the girls were also in line and talking about me. I did my business and headed down a narrow hall where the teens were and they had some boys there waiting too. The boys just kind of stared and did not say anything which kinda makes me wonder if they were crossdressers too. Another time a little girl asked her mother, "Is that a Man or a Woman" The Mother said a Woman not wanting to have to explain to the girl about it I am sure. Then one other time I was helping a friend with a Yard sale and a pickup went by with some guy in back that was drunk, he yelled out all kinds of things I am sure you know what. But that was it out of 1 1/2 years of dressing everyday. I do have a few Lady friends that I met when I was dressing and they are still my friends today.

[Katie Moore]

A month ago, I went to the local hospital to get a heart screen and lung ct scan. Thought I was going to get changed into a gown so I kept my vs underwear on. Well, no gown, just had me lay on the table and then he started to put electrodes on me all over the place. He must of seen my underwear cause when I came out of the machine now there was a girl and the guy taking off the electrodes. Not a word said but somehow the air in the room got just a litlle heavier. Didn't really bother me though...BTW, all test results came back pretty dang good!

[PetiteDuality]

I guess it all depends on what one considers a bad experience. I got the holy s**t kicked out of me in an underground parking garage. having teenagers laugh or ridicule me isn't in my book a bad experience but more of an annoyance.

Geez, this is serious stuff. So sorry you had to go through this

[Vanessa Storrs]

I am on 'red alert' everytime I am out dressed. So far my fears have not been justified. I have received one rude comment and one constructioon worker laughed when he saw me. I have received several compliments and many smiles from people. When I hear someone laughing my paranoia jumps into high gear until I realize that they are laughing at something even funnier than an old fat crossdresser. I have never come close to any situation which would deter me from going out again.

[HannahF6]

And I've been dressing for about 55 years and never had an untoward comment or experience. One nice experience occured when I was out for a walk dressed up very nicely, a woman came around the corner, looked me over top to toe and grinned. Doubtless I was read, I smiled back and continued on.

Hannah

[ReineD]

Eluuzion, what an awful experience. I'm so sorry! :sad:

[Kaitlyn26]

Eluuzion, that's a pretty interesting story. You won't say it but I will. We need less morons with badges in this country. It's making the general public dislike our police officers that are competent. That's disgusting, honestly. You should've asked for names.

[AllieSF]

After 4 years of going out, maybe close to 200 times, my only so-so experiences are minimal, pulled over twice by the police, once in California for a full question and answer plus balance coordination tests followed by the Breathalyzer test, which I passed, then later that same year in Detroit, Michigan for an abbreviated version of the DUI test, which again I passed. I was dressed totally en femme and was more worried about the DUI ticket and its associated costs in fines, court and potential insurance rate costs. Both times I was treated more than professionally. Another time I was riding the rapid transit train home and had an interesting encounter with two just teen young girls who had to make a scene. I think that I handled it well and later had passengers tell me they were ready to step in to support me if necessary. Other than that, all is well and hopefully will remain that way for a long time.

[michelle64]

several times i have had problems with guys looking for a hook-up..well lets just say i am happily involved with a gourgous lady and have been for years..i just keep on walking while they try in desperation (are we really that bad as guys?)..another time a young teen approached and started to chat..soon it became apparant the motives were well robbery..one change of my voice and my hand going into my purse and off the perp ran..sad part is this was a wealthy area with a very nice mall..kids today i guess..i do carry a firearm legally but its a big decision with a lot of responsibilty..only you can decide but yes i do carry when out..99.9% of the time nothing happens and for that reason i just have not gone out in many many months..it gets so routine its boring...just be careful in any bar/club district..alcohol and stupidity go hand in hand..

[linda allen]

..i do carry a firearm legally but its a big decision with a lot of responsibilty..only you can decide but yes i do carry when out..99.9% of the time ..

As bad a scene as it would be for you to shoot an attacker, even if justified and legal in your state, imagine how much worse it would be when it comes out on TV and in the newspapers that you were dressed as a female at the time. Talk about being outed! :eek:

[Nikki A.]

Read yes, problems no. Although I guess being called sir by an old geezer (although he did hold the door for me) when fully dressed did take me down a notch, especially since I felt that I looked especially good that day

[Stacey Summer]

I haven't really been out yet so I don't have any bad experiences. I remember one night I was out for a walk, wearing jeans, cream mid-ankle boots with a 3" chunky heel and my black cardigan that has a massive hood (the reason I chose it) that hides my face. Walked past a couple on their 30's I guess and I'm sure they made me but nothing was said. Hopefully when I finally get a decent wig and learn to do my makeup I'll have a good experience my first time properly out.

[Rachel Morley]

Thankfully, I've never had a problem (yet). I have run various scenarios in my mind and rehearsed what I might say to anyone (police stopping me, teens in the mall etc) ... but so far I've never needed to use them. I know I get "read" sometimes and I occasionally get what I think are "knowing smiles" but as I said, no one has actually said anything to my face and I've never had anything bad actually happen (yet).

[JavaJunkie]

As bad a scene as it would be for you to shoot an attacker, even if justified and legal in your state, imagine how much worse it would be when it comes out on TV and in the newspapers that you were dressed as a female at the time. Talk about being outed! :eek:

Better to be alive and outed than dead or in critical condition with your secret intact!

On to the topic though, one night on the way back from the local gay bar (had like 1 mixed drink over the course of 3 hours) and heading over to my friend's house I decided to stop in the parking lot of a grocery store to touch up my makeup. As I'm sitting there touching up my eyeliner and fixing my hair I see flashing lights in my rear view mirror! Now needless to say this was in a very small town in rural NC so I just steeled myself for the impending drama. The cop comes up to my window and is like "license and registration ma'am" so I must of been passing well enough....at least until he saw me in boy mode on the ID...oh boy. He then goes back to his car and in a few minutes 3 more cop cars show up. The aforementioned cop then comes back to my car and asks me to step out of the car. Then the million questions treatment starts as all of the cops start asking me where I'm coming from, if I was drinking, where I was going at this time of night, etc etc.

After a little bit of this it was very obvious they were just trying to get a rise out of me so knowing good ol' me...when pushed, push back! Then they had me do the sobriety test which is no easy feat in 4 inch heels. I kept my cool though and strutted my stuff making sure to put a little extra hip swagger during the walk in a straight line portion. :D Right after though, I walked up to the first cop and demanded to know why I was being interrogated and harassed for no particular reason. He walks over to his buddies, they have a little talk, and when he comes back he tells me they had "good suspicion" that there were prostitutes in the area and I was one of the ones they were looking for....at which point I very pointedly denied the allegation and asked the cop and his buddies if they didn't have a VALID reason for keeping me could I leave unless their police department wanted a sexual harassment lawsuit on their hands. Once I started asking for all of their names and badge numbers they very hastily told me they were "going to let me go this time." Needless to say they were just trying to harass me which I was having no part of. After getting back in my car and pulling out of the parking lot though I couldn't stop shaking for the next 10 minutes and even had to pull over before I could safely drive being so shaken up from the encounter. That's me though...in the heat of the moment I'm cool as an ice cube, but afterwards I'm a total mess.

BTW this same "police" department in 2009 was indicted for corruption and obstruction of justice throughout the whole dept. They just now got the ability to process felony charges back 2 years later. This has been my only really bad experience though except for a few overheard whispers and double takes. It does seem though that police in NC love to accuse us of prostitution because apparently the only reason to them why a man would present as a woman is for sexual purposes since I've had many TG friends who've had the same problems with the police.

[Carmen]

I was on my way home one Friday evening on a busy city blvd, lo and behold there was a sobriety checkpoint ahead and I was already in line. No need to panic, I wasn't drinking or carrying drugs or running from the law, nothing to hide.
I was well into in girl mode and I continued in that mode. I checked my lipstick and hair and waited for my turn.
My window was rolled down as the male officer leaned towards me and asked how I was, making eye contact with him I replied with a smile and carefully said, "Just fine thank you". He smiled back, glanced at my rack, and waved me through. My heart didn't even speed up, my breathing remained regular, I didn't break into a sweat, I was very calm and I believe that he saw that.

It saddens me to read about all these bad times that many sisters had to endure. Yes you can be honest and calm and all that, but it only takes one 'bad or curious cop' to make a harmless situation into a bad one.
I go on police ride-alongs periodically and I do talk about such issues with them. Basically, if you aren't giving the police a reason to draw their attention towards you, you should be okay out there. They have a lot more on their plate to deal with than looking for CD's to harass.
Of course a cop working in a rural area or small town is probably bored and is looking for anything out there that seems 'unusual' to them and worth investigating.
My rules include always being where other people are. I do not park in empty lots at night or walk downtown after the stores have closed. Those acts will attract their attention as that is their job.

[Eryn]

...Next came the “mind if we have a look in your vehicle” question, after they had sufficiently intimidated me, which was quickly followed by shoving a “written consent" form and a pen in my hand and pointing to where I "needed to sign it". I foolishly decided to consent rather than refuse the search...because I wanted to get home ASAP....

If this ever happens to you it is NEVER in your best interest to consent to a search. If they have probable cause that you have committed a crime they won't ask for your permission. If you give permission their "fishing expedition" will only extend your ordeal. It also multiplies their opportunities to plant illegal items in your belongings. Stay in your vehicle unless you are ordered to exit it, since exiting the vehicle gives them cause to search your person. If you are ordered to exit your vehicle be sure to lock and close the door after you get out. There are legal nuances that extend police search rights if the door is left open. Be polite, comply with any lawful order the officer gives, but tell the officer with certainty that you do not consent to any search.

[Wendy_Marie]

As bad a scene as it would be for you to shoot an attacker, even if justified and legal in your state, imagine how much worse it would be when it comes out on TV and in the newspapers that you were dressed as a female at the time. Talk about being outed! :eek:

I disagree with this statement emphatically Linda...Right is Right and it doesn't matter what you are wearing so long as you are not breaking any laws or instigating trouble yourself....Being Transgender or a crossdresser does not make my life or safety any the less valuable because of my gender presentation...And Yes, I do frequently carry a firearm in a manner that is legal in my State.....Now Yes...the media would no doubt try to sensationalize this scenario...but I still choose to fight back when Violence is brought to me...a Firearm should be a last resort...and some may see this as the testosterone in me talking now but ("It is still better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.") I'll take my chances in a court of law under representation of an attorney rather than hope for mercy at the hands of a criminal anyday...I have the same rights as anyone else be they Male or Female or a combination of the two.

[michelle64]

i guess its time to start a new thread on bra holsters and what size of purse works best for concealing my firearm..(while out of course)..being outed is the least of your worries when you are faced with an 8 inch bowie knife and the perp is demanding your purse..a simple here i will give you may wallet while you reach into your purse and out comes the glock..of course you never bring a knife to a gun fight..i know this is always an issue here amongst many..but the issue is important enough to discuss as adults..

[Toni Citara]

Maybe there should be an entire thread to self-preservation and protection!! Not just concealed carry firearms, but defense tactics, martial arts, and perhaps most important - dispute resolution.

As much as I am pro-RKBA, there are those times in my professional field I am unable to carry, and those are the times I feel vulnerable. My office is totally pro-gun, but many of the offices and courts I deal with are not interested in protecting the God-Given Right of Self-Preservation.

[Momarie]

If this ever happens to you it is NEVER in your best interest to consent to a search. If they have probable cause that you have committed a crime they won't ask for your permission. If you give permission their "fishing expedition" will only extend your ordeal. It also multiplies their opportunities to plant illegal items in your belongings. Stay in your vehicle unless you are ordered to exit it, since exiting the vehicle gives them cause to search your person. If you are ordered to exit your vehicle be sure to lock and close the door after you get out. There are legal nuances that extend police search rights if the door is left open. Be polite, comply with any lawful order the officer gives, but tell the officer with certainty that you do not consent to any search.

I don't think this is wise advice AT ALL.

People with nothing to hide...hide nothing.

Exiting a vehicle and locking it behind you is FOOLISH on SO MANY levels.
You will immediately be viewed as suspicious/dangerous and the keys in your hands might be mistaken for a weapon.

I really resent your assumption that law enforcement would 'plant something on their fishing expedition'.
Believe it or not, they have much better things to do.

[linda allen]

............ It does seem though that police in NC love to accuse us of prostitution because apparently the only reason to them why a man would present as a woman is for sexual purposes since I've had many TG friends who've had the same problems with the police.

The reality is, in many areas, males do dress as women and prostitute themselves. So, if you look like a hooker and are stopped in an area where hookers operate, you're likely to be stopped and questioned. Even if you are a genetic female.

[PetiteTonya]

I don't think this is wise advice AT ALL.

People with nothing to hide...hide nothing.

Exiting a vehicle and locking it behind you is FOOLISH on SO MANY levels.
You will immediately be viewed as suspicious/dangerous and the keys in your hands might be mistaken for a weapon.

I really resent your assumption that law enforcement would 'plant something on their fishing expedition'.
Believe it or not, they have much better things to do.

I suggest you brush up on US Constitutional Law, specifically the Fourth Amendment. You are obviously misinformed with all due respect. Or, consult any lawyer and they will advise you to do EXACTLY what Eryn has mentioned.

Best wishes

[Wendy_Marie]

I don't believe there is a cookie cutter answer to this question of do I or don't I allow a vehicle search...and like many other things in life...the situation will dictate the best response.

I have never had an officer ask for consent to search my vehicle but then again I haven't been pulled over for anything more than a speeding ticket in over thirty years.....and so the need is averted.

I do believe that you are going to be put under closer scrutiny and will find yourself at greater suspicion if you refuse a requested search...and while I will acknowledge that the possibility exists that a corrupt law enforcement officer may "Plant" evidence...it is thankfully a rare occurence and said officers usually weed themselves out and off the departments fairly quickly....and if said officer is so corrupt to begin with...its not going to matter if you consent to a search or not...

All they need anyway to search the vehicle is a "Reasonable Suspicion" to search.

In a situation where I am sure I haven't done anything wrong and have nothing to hide....I believe I will play the odds and the odds are that if you don't have anything to hide...while you may be in for a little embarrassment, inconveinence and possibly even ridicule...it is still better to be cooperative with Law Enforcement.

[stephanieg]

I have had a guy look up my skirt once.I did not catch it at first and luckily my good friend Jess caught it.She alerted me at first.I ended up taking the pointy part of my left heel and get it near his right eye.I did call him a pervert and a cop saw it.Guy was arrested and I did press charges.He was convicted of sexual assault and sentenced to 5 years in the slammer.

[Duana]

I suggest you brush up on US Constitutional Law, specifically the Fourth Amendment. You are obviously misinformed with all due respect. Or, consult any lawyer and they will advise you to do EXACTLY what Eryn has mentioned.

Best wishes

Great post. Momarie is obviously law enforcement. Its a shame so many officers in a positon of power feel they have the right to violate our most fundamental rights. And the so-called Patriot Act only perpetuated these beliefs.

I meant to respond to the original post but got busy. IMHO, the OP of the traffic stop brought all the trouble on herself. It wasn't a case of TG harrassment. It was a case of police investigating a person acting suspiciously and obviously lying. I do despise the fact that they stopped her without cause but everything else was her fault. If I get pulled over en femme, no problem I'm a freaking CD.

What she should have said when asked about the wig was, "Its mine. So what?"

[Tara D. Rose]

Picture it, it was the summer on 1995. I had gone to Myrtle Beach, SC and I was all alone in my trip. I was married and was just taking this trip to the beach from advice by my doctor to the beach and get some sun. My doctor suggested that because of a skin breakout from some medicine he had prescribed earlier. Well upon my packing for the trip, I thought how wonderful an opportunity for me to become Tara as I was up in a high rise hotel room overlooking the Atlantic ocean.

Well I enjoyed my 3 days there and spending my evenings up in my room just relaxing and being Tara. The morning of my departure, I was on the phone with my second wife and said, I’m leaving now, I should be home around 4pm. I put on this little white silky girly tank and some little terrycloth shorty shorts, pink panties and a bra with no forms. I was sunburned tremendously bad. I could hardly walk for I had gotten way too much sun. I put on a lot of aloe for my sunburns. I packed my guy stuff in the trunk. And I put my girl stuff under the cover that covers the spare tire. This was way before cell phones. So I hit the road, knowing I had 5 hours to get home now. One fact my driver side window will not roll down.

I was rolling up Highway 501 , just North of Conway, SC, Another car came up beside me and wanted to run the cars down the road a bit, sort of like a challenge to me. So we both put the throttles down for a bit. Then my opponent slowed down from 70 down to around 45mph. I looked back and wondered, “what you doin?’ I thought, “You wanna roll with me? I looked ahead and there was this unmarked SCHP, 6 car lengths ahead of me with the blues flashing. I tried to play it off like, is it me you want? I slowed to 35 also as many cars went flying by. The SCHP stayed in front of me the whole time with the blues flashing. Yes I was wrong, I was speeding, as was the car beside of me. So he finger gestured with an angry mannerism for us both to pull over and so we did. We pulled into a closed down small time gas station. I pulled in, the SCHP pulled in and parked ahead of me or in front of me. And the other speeder pulled up and stopped in front of the SCHP’s car.

Then out came this big man about 6’5” or 6’6”, 260lbs minimum, got out of his cruiser and walked back towards my little old 1989 pontiac grand prix. He swiftly walked and made sure he was about 6 feet from my window. He was wearing his SCHP hat and even had the string going under his chin. He put both of his hands on his hips and his face scowled with obvious anger. I was a little scared, yes I was speeding, my wheels were spinning, both my hands were on the wheel. I awaited instructions. I couldn’t roll my window down. I was afraid to open the door feeling that he may take that as and act of aggression. So I sat there wanting him to instruct me on something after he had analyzed the situation.

After staring at me for about 45 seconds through my glassed window, he lunged at my window, started beating it with his huge fist’s , screamed at me, then dug his fingernails to the top of my window glass, and got his big hands on the window and forced it down into the door of the car. He reached in and grabbed me by my blouse and pulled me hard up into his face, he SCREAMED at me: “What the hell are you doing? Are you gonna say you weren’t speeding on my highway?” “no sir, I said” he screamed; “WHAT?” ,,no sir I said again. He screamed again, ”OH SO YOU’RE SAYING YOU WAS NOT SPEEDING ON MY DAMN HIGHWAY? ,,yes sir I said. He then said get out of the car, get out of the damn car and never letting go of my blouse. He opened the door with the door latch and as I was getting out with him pulling me at the same time, I was finally out of the car. He said so you’re gonna say you weren’t speeding on my highway?” he then shoved me with half of his might back into my car. Then grabbed me again and said answer me boy, were you speeding on my highway boy ,huh?, huh?, huh,??? Were you boy?” he screamed as loud as he could. He slammed me back into my car. This went on for about 4 times he slammed me into my car. At this point, I’ve never even gotten to say a word. I put up no resistance for I knew, that would be a terrible mistake.

He then asked for drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. I gave all that to him. He then said “I need to search your car” “DO you give me permission to search your car, he yelled?” I said in a low soft voice, “Are you going to give me a ticket?” He put his nose against mine and screamed, “DAMN RIGHT I’M GONNA GIVE YOU A TICKET” I said nice and soft and low voice, “then I will not give you permission to search my car. “WHAT?’ he yelled. He then grabbed me under my left armpit with his big strong self and lifted me up with only my tiptoes were on the wet ground. Well he then called his captain to get a warrant for a search. He called it all in and we waited for his captain to arrive. He said, “my captain is on his way BOY, you think I’m tough and bad, you just wait till he gets here” He then said, “all you gotta do is give me permission to search your car and I’ll keep my captain off of you” And with all my intelligence, I knew they would get into my car in time. So I said, “ok, you can search my car” “YOU SURE? He screamed” I said yes. He then took my keys and looked all under all the seats, dash, console, back seats, front seats, etc. Then he grabbed a picture of me and my little 9 year old daughter from just under the rearview mirror, looked at it and screamed “IS THIS YOUR DAUGHTER? I then just stared at him.

He opened my trunk, opened my luggage and emptied all the contents out on the waterhole from the previous rain. Opened my video camera case and threw it on the ground and picked up a VHS tape and screamed ”WHAT”S ON THIS TAPE?? I just stared at him. And then when it seemed that there was nothing left to see, he then pulled up the covering for the spare tire, jerked it all out and threw it on the ground, and saw three plastic bags, and looked in them. There he saw all of my Tara clothes, skirts, blouses, panties, bras, etc. “Who’s women’s clothing is this , he asked. I said they belong to my wife.

His captain pulled up behind me, the big and mean type, he got out of his car, walked up to me and grabbed me under my left arm pit and lifted me as high as he could, ,,again my feet were barley touching the ground. The captain the yelled at me , with me lifted up like that and he yelled, “ YOU GOTTA PROBLEM BOY”, “no sir I said,” he then did the same old thing his employee did, and screamed “WHAT?” no sir. “WHAT??” no sir, I repeated. He let go of me and then he and the original guy walked off and talked. I could read and hear them well. Captain was told of the women’s clothes and all. He’s clean, etc. At that time in life I thought the clothes were illegal but now I know they weren’t.

So the first guy started writing tickets of speeding,no seat belt, etc. During that part, he asked very sweetly, “Do you think you have been treated unfairly?” I said “no sir” “WHAT, he asked ?” obviously very surprised at my response. “no sir , I said”. “So you don’t think you’ve been mistreated?” again I said “ no sir” I was shaking very badly from the fear of what they may do next. And so the captain asked me why I was shaking? His employee responded with, “ he probably believes all that SH** he sees on tv about cops”. I thought to myself, “well if you all are not so wrong you wouldn’t have to edit the films like you do”. His captain took off and said I’ll meet you at the diner. He handed me the tickets , looked at his watch and said, damn this has been over and hour I gotta run. I then said “ ok, well I will be here a while” cop asked why?, I said in a voice that I would use as if I was leaning over a dying person on their death bed,, well you see, “ I have been driving for over 3o years, probably longer that you've been in the world, and I know when you get pulled over, you should do only what you are instructed to do. He said yes, I knew you didn’t know about my window wouldn’t roll down, he said yes, I knew that if I opened my door that you may take that as an act of aggression, he said yes, and I said, so sir, I had no choice but to sit there with my hands on the wheel, and you saw how everything turned out, he said yes. And I said so, I’m going to have to get some tools out and all and try to fix my window that you broke before I can leave here, for (I looked up), a big storm is coming, he looked up and said yes , looked like a big one’s coming, plus I need to put some more aloe on my sunburns and of the bruises you and your captaion put on me. The big bad SCHP, said look MR. ******, you seem like a real good man, I’m sorry I got like I did,,, look, I’ll help you fix your window. He went to his car and pulled out the long nose rubber jawed pliers and he and I worked on my window for about 5 minutes and finally got it fixed and rolled up. He then told me that when I came back next week to pay my fines for the judge to give him a call and he would drop most of the charges. He then walked up to the car that was speeding along with me ,and said, ya’ll go ahead, and motioned them off. I’m sure if I had walked up to that car afterwards, I would have smelled SH** in there.

I drove on for about ten miles afterwards and had to stop and throw up for about 30 minutes.

Love & respect. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Tara

[Babeba]

Are personal attacks really necessary?

Maybe I'm being naive, or just Canadian and therefore don't have a tarnished ideal of police - but the only times I have ever encountered law enforcement officers they were very professional and (mostly) helpful - even in the States. I think it's a profession where the right kind of person can do a lot of good. I've definitely seen police officers who got a little out of their comfort zones at times - and that would probably be the case when any of you ladies were dressed around them - but on the overall I think they do more good than harm. Maybe part of it is that I'm a GG, and a little on the small side - but I have definitely felt protected whenever I have needed to call police. Actually, I'd be interested to hear other GGs on this little tangent of interacting with police, perhaps that mistrust of law enforcement is something from the more male side of the psyche as both Momarie and I are on the side of co-operating with them.


Last time I checked, wearing a skirt wasn't against the law in any Western country (I haven't checked laws elsewhere, but that seems a good generalization, right?) so why 'hide' that? Somebody made a point about asking for badge numbers and names when they felt it was getting past an okay reaction, I think that's a great idea. I probably would comply with what a police officer asked me to do. I think if I was alone and pulled over by one or two police officers, I would ask for their name and badge anyway, because enough criminals have faked being a cop to commit crimes I wouldn't want to put myself at risk. Doing that right up front will probably limit any harassment you would get from them before it happens.

[SusanLCD]

This thread may not have been intended to address police encounters, but, i find reading the stories to be valuable. Like most of you, I feel intimidated when approached by an officer. But, my experience has been that most (not all) are professional and concentrating on doing their [often thankless] job.

To shine a different light: A Fort Worth police officer recently accepted our invitation to visit with us at a local TG support group meeting. The setting was very casual; a mixed group of TGs and GGs and he sitting together and talking.

He spoke for only a short while then opened the floor for questions. As you can imagine, the questions started out asking about legalities (bathrooms?; license/ID?; etc.), but, soon became concentrated on how to act and expect to be treated by police officers, especially when dressed (as we all were.) The conversations were candid and, I believe, realistic. He acknowledged that, like in any other profession, there are those officers who are "on the fringe." His message was that the various police departments (at least in this region) have become extremely sensitive and responsive to complaints of police harassment, with little tolerance for those officers who create those problems. (This may not have always been the case, but, I believe modern legal awareness has caused it to evolve.)

He was, of course, professional and cordial. A few questions, I believe, made him uncomfortable and he chose his words carefully, not knowing how they would be received. But, he repeatedly stressed that most metropolitan police officers have too much on their plate to spend time harassing LGBT people. He distributed his business card to all and assured that, should anyone encounter anything perceived as harassment, a complaint would be respected and investigated and, if not, he would welcome a call, personally, to get his help.

It isn't against the law to cross-dress. So, when approached by an officer, there is no immediate need to change clothes, remove the wig, etc. You have the right to dress any way you wish (evening gown; clown makeup; dinosaur costume; etc.) And, you have the right to be treated with respect, regardless why he/she stopped you. (If you create an incident by not being equally respectful, that can spiral down, quickly. "We have found the enemy and he is us." - Pogo)

These attitudes may not prevail in Podunk, SC. yet. I can only hope they will eventually prevail there, as well.

[eluuzion]

If this ever happens to you it is NEVER in your best interest to consent to a search. If they have probable cause that you have committed a crime they won't ask for your permission. If you give permission their "fishing expedition" will only extend your ordeal. It also multiplies their opportunities to plant illegal items in your belongings. Stay in your vehicle unless you are ordered to exit it, since exiting the vehicle gives them cause to search your person. If you are ordered to exit your vehicle be sure to lock and close the door after you get out. There are legal nuances that extend police search rights if the door is left open. Be polite, comply with any lawful order the officer gives, but tell the officer with certainty that you do not consent to any search.

Hiya Eryn,

Darn! I was hoping to just share my experience as a confirmation of relating to the thread topic, then just sit back until the thread faded away. No such luck...lol. Since it was/is topic related, produced some “debates” and this is a reference to me, I feel obligated to cough up some more detail than I planned on,:heehee:

I am not a licensed attorney so my statements are always my opinion, never intended to be construed as offering legal advice.
I want to confirm that I agree with the excellent approach you stated as being the safest strategy for dealing with this type of police encounter. For much of the general public, the alternative would be like playing a game against opponents that created the game, designed the rules and did not give you a copy of the rules. Losing the game can result in devastating consequences.

Honesty and truth sharing are excellent morality concepts to adopt and practice in life. Unfortunately, they have little to do with the outcome of legal encounters or guilt/innocence rulings in a court of law. What you can prove or can not prove based upon documented evidence has everything to do with the outcome in a court of law.

To state my philosophy/position on this issue, as well as any circumstance I may encounter is this:

I always have a strategy. At a minimum I have a plan “A” and a plan “B“. Plus contingency plans for both because chances are I will need all of them, :)
A good strategy relies on having the proper insight, resources, tactics and ability to play the games I enter. This requires knowing the rules, as well as the ability to adapt/evolve quickly to seize/capitalize on any opportunities that surface which can keep me out of immediate trouble. If I don’t feel that confidence, I try not to play that game, lol.

I deal with legal/privacy issues in the work I do. I am knowledgeable about the reality of Traffic Enforcement as a pretext for drug enforcement efforts. This includes using “drug courier/vehicle profiling as a law enforcement tool to increase the statistics enough to support/reflect a “successful” fight on the “War on Drugs” to the public. Before anybody starts waving and cheering in favor of this strategy...you might want to see how such philosophies escalate. I am referring to “Policing for Profit”, which I believe is exactly the profiling madness that made me a target for the experience I had to endure.

Here is a short video clip documenting the exact same scenario I encountered. The only difference is that it was in another state, not Tennessee. This is how the DEA adapted to the Court Case Decisions changing search restrictions ( Benton, Terry Stop, Gant). Welcome to the current DEA end run version of 84’ “Operation Pipeline”.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/taxonomy/term/203

It was also the week this was happening...
ICE National Sweep
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1109/110928washingtondc.htm

Actually, the reason I survived was by paying attention to “timing” (unreasonably protracted detention for purpose of vehicle stop, unreasonable interrogation for unrelated, delay of est probable cause, consent duress, were some things I casually and respectfully “mentioned”, lol)

I did not “win”. That is impossible. I was just astute enough to not “lose”, and they recognized it. Once again I managed to transform myself into the smallest fish in the surveillance fishbowl ...in the eyes of those that are fishing for trophies in it.:thumbsup: Nothing said here is meant to be taken personal by LE members here, or interpreted as a rant against LE. It is just part of the process when any organization let's the train run itself...if you are on it, you always are assumed to be having fun.

Hey, any strategy that worked...was a good one...:cool:
Earth, what a planet...:brolleyes:

:hugs::love:

[Monique Myers]

I'm in Canada, law enforcement is pretty low key in comparison to the US. I was pulled over by a RIDE program once with another gurl in the car, explained we were just going home after a nght at the club, he asked if I'd been drinking, I said no, as I hadn't and he bid us a fond farewell, took less than a minute.

I did have one bad experience, stopping for cigarettes at a variety store a few blocks from home after a night of clubbing at about 2:45am. 2 young kids, 17 or 18 walked in behnd me, made a provocative comment and I turned around and they saw I was NOT the sexy women they were expecting. I left, they followed me in their car and parked in my driveway and hurled taunts. I called the police, with the plate number. The young boy was arrested and charged with impaired driving.

A few days later he appeared with his father and was crying and apologizing. Hs father said "we didn't raise him with these attitudes". All in all nothing major. I've been out maybe 50-60 times, that's my only "bad" experience.

[Leslie Langford]

Far be it for me to sh*t where I eat (or so the saying goes) being Canadian and all that, but in the last few years, it seems that many of our own police forces have been starting to emulate their US counterparts when it comes to stomping all over citizens' rights and administering good 'ol Southern-style roadside "justice".

The RCMP's former sterling reputation has become severely tarnished with a number of recent inquiries into questionable behavior of late, not the least of which was the tasering at the Vancouver airport about 4 years ago of unfortunate Polish visitor Robert Dziekanski. Yes, he was disoriented, acting strangely and wasn't responding to their orders because he couldn't speak English (or so it was discovered afterwards), but subsequent findings showed that the tasering which resulted in his death was definitely overkill, especially since they continued zapping him even after he had fallen to the ground and was already handcuffed.

Then there was the Toronto police force's particular spin on crowd control when confronted with the protesters at last year's G20 summit of world leaders, and which would have done any Stalinist-type regime proud. The infamous "Officer Bubbles" video which briefly became an Internet sensation around that time said it all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMTm3QRwEc

as did this demonstration of their "kettling"' techniques, which included letting the protesters stand around corralled that way for hours and get drenched in the rainstorm that subsequently developed, ostensibly to "teach them a lesson". What is the Toronto police force's motto again? "To serve and protect"? Right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=280hrwKUqKg&feature=related

Needless to say, when I am out as "Leslie" (and especially when I am driving), I do my utmost not to attract the attention of the local constabulary - just in case...

[cassandra54]

well since the thread has changed, let me weigh in on this aspect.

if i were to be stopped by the police en femme or with female items in the car, my first thought would be who cares. like some of the other law enforcement types posted, if you have nothing to hide, it's no big deal. start acting evasive and getting caught up in lies, you will have problems. you can watch this same thing happening on cops all the time, not with crossdressers, but people in general who have done something wrong.

now i do understand that some police may be overzealous and cross the line that type of behavior happens in all types of work and whether or not you have a bad experience with the police has no bearing on what you wear.

i live in a border state. border patrol and law enforcement use profiling all the time. i think whatever they do to stop crimes from happening is fine with me. if you live in a state like arizona where there is a considerable amount of crime from illegal immigrants, then you might look at things differently. and before you call me a racist, i said a considerable amount of crime from illegal immigrants, not all crime and not all illegal immigrants are criminals, just some. okay?

so if you're out en femme and are stopped by the police don't worry unless you are blind drunk stoned or have a pound of meth in the car. trust me they don't want to take you to jail while you're wearing a dress and hose. they don't know what to do with you once they get you there and the liabilities are significant.

[Valerie1973]

Well I cant say I have had any bad experiences...yet. However at a hotel once this lady was picking it to enter the establishment.. long story short I had to get in so as I approached the door with those card keys, a gentleman opened the door from inside to let us in and said to us both, "Enter, Ladies". that lady had a weird look on her face btw. Anywhoo its nice to brighten someones day and be some real conversation for someone, and do we get any thanks? I'm sure that lady told who ever wherever, "I saw a man in a dress" Oh well, I'll never see her any more, but I thought it was nice being addressed as a lady.

[likes2becute]

If this ever happens to you it is NEVER in your best interest to consent to a search. If they have probable cause that you have committed a crime they won't ask for your permission. If you give permission their "fishing expedition" will only extend your ordeal. It also multiplies their opportunities to plant illegal items in your belongings. Stay in your vehicle unless you are ordered to exit it, since exiting the vehicle gives them cause to search your person. If you are ordered to exit your vehicle be sure to lock and close the door after you get out. There are legal nuances that extend police search rights if the door is left open. Be polite, comply with any lawful order the officer gives, but tell the officer with certainty that you do not consent to any search.

I just want to back you up and say that you are absolutely right. As someone who has been profiled because of the type of car I drive, I've been pulled over well over a dozen times in the past several years and have witnessed repeatedly (regardless of reason for the stop or actual guilt) that it does not matter how nice or polite you are to the officer, volunteering information and being overly compliant to their demands or requests will never work in your favor.


This is the best advice anyone can ever take on the subject:

The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

[Leslie Langford]

I just want to back you up and say that you are absolutely right. As someone who has been profiled because of the type of car I drive, I've been pulled over well over a dozen times in the past several years and have witnessed repeatedly (regardless of reason for the stop or actual guilt) that it does not matter how nice or polite you are to the officer, volunteering information and being overly compliant to their demands or requests will never work in your favor.


This is the best advice anyone can ever take on the subject:


The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA


Well, for those who insist on driving a souped up "fast and furious" type of Japanese "rice rocket" like an Integra RS or a Civic Si with a spoiler the size of an airplane wing, a tailpipe as big as a stovepipe, and a 1000 watt stereo pumping rap music out of a set of speakers and sub-woofers that fill up the entire back seat area - and then top it off by painting it a bright day-glo canary yellow, scarlet red, or lime green - yeah, you might as well paint a bull's-eye on your vehicle as well as it will inevitably become a major cop magnet.

I see these types of cars driven by 18 year-old testosterone-laden kids wearing the requisite backwards baseball caps all the time, but the irony is that they usually drive them in traffic like little old grannies. My theory is that they either don't drive their hot rods to their full potential for fear of said police profiling, or else they have already accumulated so many tickets for moving violations that they have run out of wiggle room with their demerit points, and are on the cusp of losing their driving licences with just one more infraction...

Of course, one is always better off to drive one of these vehicles en femme, as that will earn one major points on the "hotness" scale, whereas in guy mode, one is more apt to be pigeon-holed as a dangerous maniac driver.

[Tasha McIntyre]

Like many others I have never had a bad experience. I have had several :eek: looks thrown my way, and giggles from teenage girls but that's about the worst of it.

I have, however, had so many positive experiences it's just mind blowing. I've had comments from random shoppers at the mall such as "gee I wish I had your courage" and "wow you look great". As well as plenty of very encouraging feedback from SA's whilst trying on clothes in store (yeah I know, they are after a sale, lol)

Tash :)

[t-girlxsophie]

I have had the usual sniggers/looks etc but slowly but surely the effect on me has diminished (with my Wifes help).I had one experience that had the potential to turn out nasty.In Edinburgh for a night out with a cpl TG friends and my wife,we had just left a TG friendly pub,When we started walking home,my wife and I started holding hands.We were confronted by a few ppl and one particularly nasty girl who said (aimed at my wife and I) "thats the most disgusting thing ive ever seen".Well what was a girl to do,well I thought attack was best form of defence,I replied "really,have you not looked in the mirror,dear" to that everyone started laughing,and that Including passers by.well that kinda shut her up and defused a potentially bad situation

Sophie

[ArleneRaquel]

In 2006 or so I late out mailing a letter while enfemme a car load of twenty something males yelled and screamed at me, using the usual anti gay epithets. For a couple of minutes I was frightened and my evening was quite uppsetting, but that is in the past. My next door neighbor, for the last year, is an out and out hater of what he sees as abnormal sexual attire or behavior. He is a piece of work, believe me

[JenniLyn]

One December Friday night my wife had me dress to go out to a fancy restaurant, so I was dress to the hilt. This was to be my first trip out and I was afraid and excited at the same time. She told me as she was driving that we were going Xmas shopping. We drove to a near by city where there was a Harley-Davidson dealer located that knew my male self. I declared that I could not go in there dressed like this and she said that was fine because she didn't want me to see what she was buying anyways. She laughed and said I have other plans for you, that is why you are dressed up and I'm not. I am dropping you off at the other end of town (Lebanon, PA.) and want you to window shop back towards me. She pulled in about 20 blocks from the HD dealer and said get out and walk the main street back, I will be looking for you when I'm done. There was a cop car behind us about two card and I protested that I could not get out. She drove two more blocks and said she could take me to the other end of town or I could start in the middle where we were then. I got out and started walking back towards the cops but they were gone by the time I walked the two blocks. Now came the problem, something I have done myself, wolf whistling from a car of teens. I turn into a store front as they slowed and acted as if I was going in. At the end of block they were back doing it again, it did help my confidence of passing but I did not like it. Seeing them coming a third time I crossed the street and went into an apartment building till they passed. I walked the entire 20 or so blocks before she finished shopping and had to hang out on a corner for about 10 minutes before she came up to get me. From then on it had been great going out dressed.

[larry]

Wow JenniLyn,that is one hot story. How nice to have a wife like that.

[Patrice]

I work the paint counter at a Wal-Mart and when they revised the dress-code to comply with areas whose ENDA (Employment Non-Discrimination) includes gender identity (YAY Oregon!), well, I left mens clothing behind forever. Havent worn a stitch for nearly 3 years. Im overweight, built like a lumberjack, and pass only to the perceptually-challenged . . . from a distance . . . . on a dark night . . . through tinted windows :p.

So far I havent had any truly bad experiences. no true open hostility. Veiled revulsion, 2nd (3rd, 4th, and 5th) glances, repressed laughter, snide commentary and fast retreats (DONT MAKE EYE CONTACT!) galore.

Thus far, taking folks reactions at face value (havent completed that mind-reading correspondence course yet), Ive learned that if you are comfortable with yourself, own yourself, and love yourself people are willing to accept that you are worthy of human respect.

As I said, I do not pass by any means but I still get ma'amed, missed, and she'd the majority of the time. I feel blessed every time it happens.

Im always keeping an eye out for the hostility tho, too much of a cynic not to.

[Danielle_cder]

Have had a few odd looks but never been approached or heckled. Most of my experiences have been really good very exhilarating and liberating. I do have to say I try to keep out of the lime light, go to places and do things that dont attract too much attention.

[Stephanie47]

I am always careful when venturing out en femme, which is only done in the evening. I am not passable. At a distance I figure I appear womanly. That being said, I am also aware of my rights as a human. I am also aware not everybody is aware of my rights, so I always act accordingly. I live in a liberal state. However, the municipality I reside in conveys more protection from gender identity issues than other municipalities and unincorporated areas of the counties. My municipality specifically annotates "transvestites" as protected under gender identity. Now that includes actual or perceived by the aggressor or person in non-compliance. I limit my potential exposure or revelation to geographic areas where there is no argument my "transvestite" behavior is legally protected.

That being said I realize there are persons in law enforcement, who may decide to have fun rousting people because they have nothing else to do. Now, I've read some posters saying police officers have better things to do. In my professional dealings I have seen police officers lie under oath, make false accusations, etc. I've seen some police officers charged with giving false testimony. I have personally been asked as a semi-law enforcement federal official to give misleading testimony because it "helps the case." Of course, that is contrary to my moral code and did not give misleading testimony.

I've witnessed police officers harass everybody and anybody who he or she perceives as a target. Would I consent to a search of my vehicle? Yes! Why? Because I know I have absolutely nothing concealed in my vehicle. Am I giving up my rights? Am I wearing a dress? I make sure my vehicle is in total 100% working condition. Do I want to have a search warrant secured and draw out the incident and have citizens congregate around me and my car? No. If my vehicle is search with or without my consent, there is always the prospect of a police officer planting drugs, etc. I can tolerate some idiot casting dispersions upon me for being en femme. Up to a point that seems to be free speech, so the court say. As to a police officer planting contraband to make my otherwise uneventful life miserable---- well that's a different story.

[Katie145]

yup...

One of my first times being dressed out (about 10 years ago or so). This trip was certainly the most daring I had done so far. First, I strolled through the downtown area of town (after dark), got a few looks and even a catcall. Encouraged (and possibly overconfident), my next stop was a Wal-Mart to go shopping. Big mistake. I first browsed through the women's clothing section, and roamed over towards the lingerie section. While there, I overheard some of the teenage employees laughing and snickering over by the changing room, one of them saying "hey! there's this she-male walking around!" My heart sank to the earth's core. Based on my earlier experiences downtown, I thought for sure I was passable.... I beelined to the exit. One of the douchebag male employees sort of followed me out, yelling at his co-workers by the registers to make sure they got a look at "it". That was certainly the most embarrassed I have ever been in my life. I hopped in my car, threw my wig and jewelry into the passenger side, and nearly had a meltdown. I drove angrily and recklessly home. I nearly purged my collection that night. Needless to say, I didn't dress for a while after that. I CERTAINLY didn't dress out for a long while.

It took nearly two years to dress out the next time... at a halloween party. I made sure to have my makeup done by someone else that night (a GG friend), and fortunately, I was passable that night. The shocked look on people's faces when I started talking was priceless! I have only been out fully en femme a couple more times since then (one, yet another halloween party), and I'm sure that fateful night at Wal-Mart resulted in my being apprehensive about doing it more.

[eluuzion]

... trust me they don't want to take you to jail while you're wearing a dress and hose. they don't know what to do with you once they get you there and the liabilities are significant.

to continue swinging the sledge hammer on a topic we have already beat-to-death more than necessary...lol....

This highlights what I believe is the most important concept to grasp in any adversarial encounter, LE or otherwise, particularly when your “adversary” is in a position of “power”, relative to yourself.

Paying attention, listening and identifying areas that you can “work” to your advantage is often the difference in a favorable or unfavorable outcome. It requires the discipline to move outside your fear/intimidation and self, to focus upon and “analyze” your adversaries’ position and options. (the LE officer in this case)

To use the above in a general context to illustrate the point... LE officers and LE stations operate under the same financial constraints as private industry. Profit/Loss/Operation Expense/Budgets/Quotas etc. Priorities must be set to keep the operation healthy.

A LE officer has many of the same objectives/priorities (and mindset) as those of an outside salesperson working for private industry. Basically, the objective is to utilize available resources to generate the highest (ROI) return on “investment”. Simply stated...“don’t waste resources on the little stuff.” Their “job” is to bring in the most “income” (“criminals”) possible, which keeps the operation working.LE officers are good people just trying to do their jobs well like the rest of us.

No sane salesperson wants to announce in a weekly sales meeting that he spent 30hrs of his work week closing a sale for $200, :heehee:.

No sane LE officer, particular a drug task force officer, wants to announce that on a Saturday afternoon at 3pm (start of prime time for nabbing a big bust on the highway), he made the decision to abandon the highway and spend 3 hours bringing in a “Crossdresser” with no drug cache, no stack of money, no record, and a high likelihood of having his expensive attorney waiting for him by the time they arrived at the station, lol. I am confident in assuming there are many officers willing to “overlook” quite a few “enforceable” violations at a traffic stop...to avoid facing the feedback he would surely receive from his superiors and fellow officers by logging that incident on his activity report for that night...:eek:

My point is that the better you can identify and represent what the officer(s) are NOT hoping to find(deal with), the better your chances of walking (driving) away.

I may not have used the proper “terms” but hopefully explained the concept. This was not the first time it allowed me to dodge “bullets“. I can probably thank Corporate America for training me how to escape those who try to stab you in the back, as well as those few who are willing to stab you in the FRONT as well...:cool:

:love:

[ReineD]

For the first time ever, something bad happened to my SO and I tonight. We were in an artsy/restaurant/clubbish section in a town an hour away. There were lots of people, including a lot of students since it is a college town. We were walking on the sidewalk toward our car at around 10:30 PM, and kids in a truck passing by rolled down their window and yelled, "YOU TRANSSEXUAL FREAK!" My SO thinks they had been outside one of the galleries we had visited earlier, had clocked her, and then recognized us as they were driving by.

I was devastated for the hurt that I imagined my SO must feel. To get dressed up in a pretty dress and look forward to a pleasant evening out together and then to be clocked in such a negative way is horrible! It's one thing speaking to someone who senses and understands that she is trans and who treats her with respect, but to be shouted at from a passing vehicle is abominable in my eyes. I asked my SO once we got home if she felt disappointed, she said she was, but the idea that she will pass to everyone is a fantasy and she is not about to get height reduction to prevent this from happening in the future. She is 6' tall. She asked me how many women we saw tonight who were her size and I had to admit, I saw none.

Anyway, I do admire the strong sense of self that she has. She said the kid was a jerk, and she didn't allow the incident to upset her. But I felt hurt for my SO and also I got angry that anyone would act this way. We've gotten some stares before, but nothing this rude. And I always liked to tell myself that maybe the people who stared, did so without any judgment. Maybe they were just curious. I guess I've been naive.

[kimdl93]

Reine, I'm 6'2" and have no illusions about being able to pass. I love heels and tower over most people anyway....so, I know the feeling. The bottom line is that, as you and your SO know, we can't let other people define us by some stupid, intolerant remark.

As I drove away from my house this evening I passed a group of teen boys - it was twilight and I noticed a couple of them turning around - either checking out the girl behind the wheel...or more realistically, gawking at the dude in the wig. I chose to believe it was the former....or nothing at all. Either way, I cant change it.

As your SO realizes, we can't control what people think or say. We can control our resonse.

as to the peopple who stare - some just do, without judgement. Some ladel on their own prejudices. Some are just too stupid to know they are staring. In any case, a AA quote comest to mind: Other peoples' opinion of me is none of my business.

[Melody Moore]

In 16 months of being out in public I have only had four incidents where someone had any sort of issue with me
and most of these were in the earliest days of my transitioning. However in every single incident the person with
the issue ended up being really regretful they tried to start something and not just by me, by other people around
me who without the need of a single word from me jumped to my defence as soon as someone tried to make an issue.

There was one occassion there I did use my quick wit and sense of humour to put the other person in their place,
it so happened this person was another trans woman that only picked me as being a male because of my voice.
She came out and said in a store full of people "You've got the face of a man", I instantly replied "And what you don't
honey?" and then everyone waiting just burst out laughing at this trans-woman who was also then ordered to leave
the store. She would have done a lot better to keep her opinions to herself and keep her big mouth shut! :heehee:

[JenniLyn]

Why thank you, Larry, that was just the start of my journey in life.

[Duana]

Nope, it's all been sunshine and rainbows for me.