What IS a supportive SO?

[J'lyn GG]

Based on what I read on this site, I have always considered myself to be a reluctantly accepting, unsupportive spouse. Last night, my husband told me that was completely false. Reluctantly accepting, yes. Unsupportive, no.

He said when we go shopping, I often ask if he saw anything he liked or just had to have.

When we were at JCP this weekend and he saw a skirt he thought was cute (but I knew you had to have 'just the right' type of figure to carry off) I suggested he take it with a couple of other items into the men's fitting room to try it on.

I sit with him while he gets ready. Not the whole time, but a while. Usually towards the end.

I am willing to try to be okay with different things. Like, right now. We are giving it a second try at painted toe nails. So good, so far.

Even when he said (several times) he would quit to save our marriage and to bring me out of the black hole I was in. I never made him. I wanted him to. But if chose to do that, then he chose that himself, not b/c I said he had to. If he did, it would destroy us anyway.

He told one of his cding friends that I am his hero. I don't know about that, but I did like that he appreciates all the healing I've done and that he knows just how difficult it was.

But, even with that, I have VERY clear cut boundaries that I am comfortable with. Maybe when I feel I can trust him again, those will expand a bit. But, I think not, I had to expand my boundaries quite a bit just to get here. We have an 'always ask, always tell' type policy. LOL Oh, that was a good one. :D

Basically, just because your wife doesn't like your cding and it makes her uncomfortable, doesn't mean she doesn't accept that this is the way you are. Or that she doesn't try to support you. To me, it seems that some (not all) think that if an SO is not okay with them do whatever they want, whenever they want, then they are a tyrant. Last I was told, marriage is a two way street. Compromises on BOTH sides of the street. Which may mean not as often as you may like, but, well, that's why they call it compromise.

Anway, what do YOU think is a supportive SO?

[kimdl93]

Grudgingly accepting and tacitly supporting are qualified, but still qualify ;) Not as "always ask, always tell" but its early:)

Anyway, you're husband obviously feels that he has your support and the two of you have met each other half way. No one can expect more.

[Cindy.]

In my opinion you are a very supportive wife. If you suggest that she try on stuff, then you are supporting her beliefs and are showing that you accept everything that she holds dear. Just a guess, but I bet that you are held very dear in her heart. I'm still learning about myself at this point in my life. It's very different to me, trying to express a feminine side. But my wife is still adjusting while being very supportive and even though I happen to think shes amazing and accepting we're nowhere near the point of trying things on in dressing rooms or going out dressed.

[J'lyn GG]

Kim, we do have an always ask, always tell policy. If I have a question, I always ask. If I am bothered by something, I always tell. If he has a question, he always asks. If he did something or plans to do something, he always tells. That way I don't have to wonder what he is hiding from me and he doesn't have to wonder how I REALLY feel about something.

Cindy, We don't go out in public with him dressed. I have gone to ONE social meeting with him. That's it. ANd it was a mens fitting room and he did take a couple of male items in with him. But thank you. BTW, we are also from one of those other than Iowa corn states. Lol

I guess my point with this post is to try to get some of the cders to broaden their idea of an accepting/supporting wife. I often get the unsupportive label, I think, b/c I have clear cut boundaries and a no nonsense attitude on how to approach the whole issue. I don't get everything I want and neither does he. But the concessions he does get are pretty big ones. So, I probably seem to get more in quantity, but they are little to him.

[Karren H]

Well any SO that isn't repulsed is somewhat supportive, imho. Seems to run the gambit between -100 to +99.... Still don't think there are any 100% accepting women out there. Always that 1% lack of trust or boundary issue. Your way more supportive than my wife who hovers around 0... And I love to hear your opinion about when you think that trust will come back? Four years and counting and some days I'd swear I'm no closer to getting any trust back that was lost on that horrid day....

[suchacutie]

My wife and I found Tina together one morning, and from that moment Tina became a joint project. The communication is completely open and the respect is mutual. There is nothing else I could ask of my wife in this regard. There is nothing I can't ask her about being feminine nor any topic that I can't bring up. There is no question that she has of me that I will not answer to the best of my ability.

In this limited experience of mine, our support is mutual.

[J'lyn GG]

Well any SO that isn't repulsed is somewhat supportive, imho. Seems to run the gambit between -100 to +99.... Still don't think there are any 100% accepting women out there. Always that 1% lack of trust or boundary issue. Your way more supportive than my wife who hovers around 0... And I love to hear your opinion about when you think that trust will come back? Four years and counting and some days I'd swear I'm no closer to getting any trust back that was lost on that horrid day....

Well, like I said about the Always tell, always ask. When it comes to cding, we are a COMPLETELY open book to each other. And I do mean COMPLETELY/TOTALLY/ABSOLUTELY NO SECRETS. I have serious issues with trust, so this was major. I need to know that he will be honest with me, even when he has screwed up. That I never have to worry about finding out something in a way other than hearing it from him. He's been doing a pretty good job. He flubs up once in awhile. He says not on purpose, and if my depresssion is on an upswing, I believe him, completely. Its when that depression is in a valley that I have second thoughts.

For instance, if he has checked 'her' email acct, he tells me. *I'm gonna check the email, real quick* or *did you see that post by so and so?* (yes I have access to his email acct) Some recent flubs (and I call them flubs, b/c it was something he should have told me, but not a major screw up. talked about and moved on) two months ago he gave his work email and number (b/c its the one he checks most often, and therefore, also his real name and place of employment) to another cder that attends the social meeting for emergencies. He never told me. Until Monday. He rcvd an email from him at his work email.

Though, he has had a major screw up that took us from step 8 back down to step -1. That was in May. I recovered from that quicker than I thought I would.

Anyway, after all that. When does the trust return? Well, I completely trust him in all other aspects of our life, so that helps to build this area of trust. I can say that I am shocked/disappointed (instead of expecting it) now when he has failed to tell me something. And I believe him when he says he didn't remember or planned to say something, but that plan got misplaced. lol I hate to say it, but I don't think the trust will EVER be 100% again. 99% maybe. But, I think there may always be that voice in the back of my mind. *did he REALLY tell you everything?* Especially on those low days. 18 years of lies (20 if you count dating) and 1 year of truth. We'll see where it goes. We have awhile to figure it out. I'm 35, so....

[jennCD]

I have to admit that I tend to have a hard time when topics arise here and the "X years of lies" angle comes up... especially when it revolves around a "lie of omission" (cos outright lying really isn't a way to work in the confines of a relationship.)

Most crossdressers do not go around touting that they are such, whether in public or private, with family or with friends. Almost always, it begins in what one could consider an extended time in a personal hell: "Why am I like this? Why am I doing this? What's wrong with me?" Oh sure, we hear stories like "My mom dressed me co she really wanted a daughter" or "My sister caught me and I was her slave so she wouldn't tell" but those aren't common to most of us. We are what we are and our initial experience with this probably involved a great deal of fear, confusion and anxiety. Sadly, some of us never come out of this dark place to find a sense of self that can be held up to the light where they can eventually find some value to it.

So when the "years of lies" and "mistrust because he never told me" angle comes into play, I'm drawn to the analogy of a woman having been raped as a teenager and perhaps later on having specific aversions to some aspect of sexual activity within the context of her marriage. Maybe the husband really kinda wants this activity and its known to be off limits. Well, this is something that you will agree does affect the marriage to a point. Is the wife required to explain her aversion, to lay it all on the table for the man she loves more than anyone else? Does the fear, confusion, anxiety or any other aspect of this darkness simply mean nothing just because there should be no secrets between partners?

Of course it's not a perfect analogy. He may still crossdress in private while she doesn't actually continue physically going through her ordeal out of choice. It's simply a different way of seeing the nature of "lies of omission".

As far as your situation, you are absolutely supportive of your husband and he is lucky to have you. As you said, its a compromise and you both seems to be working on finding a balance. Of course it's not easy and it's never perfect. Balance is something that constantly needs tweaking.... but at least you both appear to be willing to tweak yourselves instead of tweaking each other!

:)
jenn

[Karren H]

Thanks Grace. That was very insightful!! My wife and I aren't even on the same page. Doubt we will ever get to where you are. Sigh.

[J'lyn GG]

I have to admit that I tend to have a hard time when topics arise here and the "X years of lies" angle comes up... especially when it revolves around a "lie of omission" (cos outright lying really isn't a way to work in the confines of a relationship.)

Most crossdressers do not go around touting that they are such, whether in public or private, with family or with friends. Almost always, it begins in what one could consider an extended time in a personal hell: "Why am I like this? Why am I doing this? What's wrong with me?" Oh sure, we hear stories like "My mom dressed me co she really wanted a daughter" or "My sister caught me and I was her slave so she wouldn't tell" but those aren't common to most of us. We are what we are and our initial experience with this probably involved a great deal of fear, confusion and anxiety. Sadly, some of us never come out of this dark place to find a sense of self that can be held up to the light where they can eventually find some value to it.

So when the "years of lies" and "mistrust because he never told me" angle comes into play, I'm drawn to the analogy of a woman having been raped as a teenager and perhaps later on having specific aversions to some aspect of sexual activity within the context of her marriage. Maybe the husband really kinda wants this activity and its known to be off limits. Well, this is something that you will agree does affect the marriage to a point. Is the wife required to explain her aversion, to lay it all on the table for the man she loves more than anyone else? Does the fear, confusion, anxiety or any other aspect of this darkness simply mean nothing just because there should be no secrets between partners?

Of course it's not a perfect analogy. He may still crossdress in private while she doesn't actually continue physically going through her ordeal out of choice. It's simply a different way of seeing the nature of "lies of omission".

As far as your situation, you are absolutely supportive of your husband and he is lucky to have you. As you said, its a compromise and you both seems to be working on finding a balance. Of course it's not easy and it's never perfect. Balance is something that constantly needs tweaking.... but at least you both appear to be willing to tweak yourselves instead of tweaking each other!

:)
jenn

Well, since you don't know my story, I will add. He told me 1 1/2 yrs into our marriage and it was status quo for 4 years until he went into the pink fog and nothing was ever enough. I had a panic attack. Anyway, he lied to me for the whole 4 years and the 11 years since. So, I'm sorry, 17 years of lies and 3 years of failing to tell something that would affect our marriage. (and yes, I think a woman should tell her husband if she was raped, regardless if it affects her sex life or not)

And, as we tell our teenage son ALL THE TIME. Omitting to tell the whole truth is the same as a lie. If he tells me something, but I have to wonder what he's omitting, then that affects trust. True? (we are one of those sickening couples that are never without the other and still act like we're dating. We tell each other everything. So maybe our situation is different.)

[jennCD]

:) My wife and I are quite similar. After knowing each other for over 20 years and being together for 16, we're still not sick of each other and generally don't have much of a live outside of our family unit. We do everything together (except when I got to work) and the kids are always with us. Needless to say, we don't necessarily act like we're dating and in fact, I can't remember the last time we were out alone without the kids.... interestingly, we don't see that as a bad thing.

Lies are lies and we all know they don't add to a good working relationship but deep down, I do have to always weigh the personal aspects of "why" when it comes to omissions. If my wife didn't tell me something personal because she was afraid of that aspect of truth, I wouldn't be quick to let it affect my trust of her before I rationalize the "why" of it. I tend to overanalyze things so its more than likely I'd end up seeing it closer to her point of view in the end.

:)
jenn

[Dami]

Thanks Grace. That was very insightful!! My wife and I aren't even on the same page. Doubt we will ever get to where you are. Sigh.

Karen - Don't give up hope, you never know what a woman is thinking and many times it will surprise you.

GraceAnne - You sound WAY more supportive than many wives I have heard about including a few I know personally.

I hinted to my wife many years ago about my desires, I didn't act on them until recently and I was lucky enough to have her approval, but with some boundaries that I was perfectly fine with.
Compromise, it worked for me.

Dami

[Joanna41]

Wow...I already knew I had a completly supportive S/O but after reading some of these posts I'm truly lucky to have found my fiance Hope. She helped to create Joanna and helps maintain her. We go shopping together, eat out together, and a ton of other things. Without Hope there wouldn't even be a Joanna. We talk about everything and hide nothing. We really have no boundaries as long as everything is shared about what's goin on. Joanna has been the perfect add on to our relationship. Even at night I wear what ever I want. She even lays stuff out for me sometimes. We paint our nails together and she helps with my make up. She is a real treasure....so I guess with all this description of her she certainly falls into a supportive S/O

Joanna

[Alice B]

My wife is supportive, but also has boundries that I accept. I can dress and go out when the timing is right with our busy schedules. I wear panties 7/24, have painted toe nails, but have to remove the paint for some events. I have my brows waxed and sometimes tinted. My body is shaved most of the times and legs at all times. I do not have to hide my clothes. I wear ear rings 7/24. But, she does not wish to see me dressed or assist in dressing, although at times I can dress at home. She does not want to go shopping with me, but has given me clothes in the past. In short, she fully understands my needs and accepts them as long as she is not involved and I do not cause any embarssement or comprimise her. To me this is very accepting and from what you have said you are also very accepting.

Like many cross dressers it would be great to have a spouse or SO that fully participated, but for most that is not going to happen and we must recognize our limits and not try to push them too hard. Your spouse is very lucky and you are very understanding.

[kristinacd55]

I would consider you reluctantly supportive, somewhat like my wife. If it was up to her, I wouldn't be doing it at all but she reluctantly goes along and we've pretty much set up guidelines to which I'm pretty much sticking to.

[ReineD]

How do you define a supportive SO?

In my opinion, it is when she does her best to stretch her boundaries, in an attempt to reach some sort of middle ground with her SO. It is the willingness, or the desire to be supportive that is paramount here, more than the individual things she may or may not be OK with. There are just too many variables to come up with a level of support that might fit every couple. Probably the most basic form of support would be for the wife to acknowledge that her husband has real needs to CD (as opposed to believing he is sick or perverted, or that it is morally wrong), even if the wife cannot see her way to participate.

No one can expect a wife who has just found out about the CDing to have the same understanding of it as a GG who has navigated the CDing with her husband for several years. Things do change, and the level of support changes too, even if it is a wife eventually adopting a DADT attitude instead of threatening divorce.

So, I think you're doing great, personally. :hugs:

[t-girlxsophie]

I think the fact my Wife knew from the beginning,helped a great deal in shaping our relationship as It is now,She has embraced Sophie and is fully supportive and sees It as just another side to the Person she married.she is happy to have Sophie around,we a do a lot of great things together as CD and wife too and it certainly makes for a special marriage.As long as I don't take her for granted,and also let her Man get a look in she is more than content with things the way they are.I also show her my Appreciation whether be Buying Flowers,making her Breakfast in bed or even just thanking her for her support.I love her dearly,and everything she does for me.

Sophie

[Toni Citara]

Some of you have been very fortunate. I've never had a girlfriend or wife that ever accepted crossdressing. Someday I'm certain the right one will come along.

[Gillian Gigs]

Marriage is "all' about compromise and boundries. Any good relationship has found that comfortable middle ground in which both of you can flourish. With nothing being "set" in stone couples need to move forward and occasionally reaccess goals, desires, as well as the compromises and boundries to see if they are still applicable. My wife is more supportive of my CDing today than she was 15 years ago, but I am also a different person today beacuse of personal growth. Both of us have grown and in the process we are more loving and caring toward one another. To me a supportive spouse is someone who in spite of "whatever" continues to love and build toward a better future together.

[Kaitlyn26]

If it's something that comes out after the marriage is established, then you should meet the other person halfway and learn to live with it. Putting them into the closet is not meeting them halfway. It's no different than any other challenge put in front of you. It may be a difficult one, but there are some that are even more difficult. Just ask the SO of a quadriplegic how difficult it was to go from having a big strapping man, to a person that requires care in every single thing. I'm sure they would all like their man back, but would never admit it. You're not likely to hear them say, "I didn't sign on for this!", like SO's of some crossdressers around here proclaim, and even perceive as acceptable.

If it's something that's known before up front from the start, then the degree of support needs to be worked out then. I would not tell someone that, and marry them unless I had full 100% support. Yes, I am picky.

[Elizabeth Ann]

GraceAnne,
You ask a profound question, for which I think I have a different perspective. My wife and I have a very different relationship than you and your husband. Our 37 year marriage is at the core of both of our beings. It anchors us. It is our refuge and sanctuary where we can be with our best friend.

But neither of us are the person we married 37 years ago, and we don't hold each other to that standard. I only seriously started crossdressing in the last 10 years, but we both recognize we each have a life, that not everything is about our spouse. But I think we started out with the belief that our marriage was this great adventure shared by two individuals, not just a contract binding us together. In our wedding program, we included this passage from Kahlil Gibran:

Then Almitra spoke again and said, "And what of Marriage, master?"
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

Suppose the issue were fishing instead of crossdressing. He spends a lot of time and money on fishing, and you are totally uninterested. I would say you are supportive as long as you are okay with his fishing, that you recognize his passion even if you never ever set foot in the fishing boat.

To my mind, supportive does not necessarily mean that you participate. I think my wife is supportive, even though she chooses not to be involved. We discuss it from time to time, and we try to accommodate each other

But the most crucial aspect of supportive? That when I look at her, I know she doesn't think less of me because of this. If she did, I would truly be in hell.

Liz

[Tara D. Rose]

What is a supporting SO, I used to think I knew what that was. But now days I'm not sure. I wish I had one. She says she is, but her actions and verbal objections seem contrary to her so called, supportiveness. It's in and out all the time. So, it just makes me never want to become Tara in her presence.

[*Vanessa*]

From my experience my ex-wife knew I was a CDer and at the time exploring what it meant to be transgender (new term/old mind) prior to our marriage and before our third date. To this end she was without question supportive of all aspects of my person.

The term 'trust' has come up a few time in a number of threads here when talking about supporting SOs and CDers. This to me is foreign, I guess for obvious reasons but certainly an argument for sharing more of yourself with your soon to be spouse prior to taking that vows.

I also think that that 'trust issue' maybe my achilles heel. My personal vows has a do not lie tenant that I will not break. If we can't be honest with ourselves then what is that point to our life. I am 70% sure I would rather NOT tell my friend/SO that I am CDer/Transgender and live a miserable existence the rest of my life while not 'physically dressing', then to tell her and run a better than 90% risk of loosing the only friend I have in this pathetic world.

[sissystephanie]

I can truthfully say that I am one of the more fortunate CD's on this Forum. I told my late wife that I was a CD when I proposed to her!! She accepted me "as is," and fully supported me in any way she could for the almost 50 years we had together. She was the one who made sure I was ready to go out in public as Stephanie by always doing my makeup and fixing my wig!! We did frequently go out as 2 girls!! We never did tell our 2 children (her rule!) and they only learned when I told them after her death!! Being married that long we of course had problems along the way, but none that concerned my crossdressing!! She always knew that I was her MAN, no matter what clothing I was wearing, and that is what she cared about!!

[Babeba]

GraceAnne,

Suppose the issue were fishing instead of crossdressing. He spends a lot of time and money on fishing, and you are totally uninterested. I would say you are supportive as long as you are okay with his fishing, that you recognize his passion even if you never ever set foot in the fishing boat.
Liz

Liz, I think the fishing analogy works if the husband hid his fishing gear, sneaked out for his time fishing, and the wife were a third generation vegetarian - the thing the husband was/is passionate about is something completely not in the wife's upbringing/social sphere of awareness, and there's an omission that probably is because the husband didn't think the wife was going to like hearing that part of his life. Sometimes vegetarians and meat eaters can compromise and get along in a family - but it's often way easier if everyone knows about it up front.


I have to admit that I tend to have a hard time when topics arise here and the "X years of lies" angle comes up... especially when it revolves around a "lie of omission" (cos outright lying really isn't a way to work in the confines of a relationship.)

Most crossdressers do not go around touting that they are such, whether in public or private, with family or with friends. Almost always, it begins in what one could consider an extended time in a personal hell: "Why am I like this? Why am I doing this? What's wrong with me?"

Sadly, some of us never come out of this dark place to find a sense of self that can be held up to the light where they can eventually find some value to it.

So when the "years of lies" and "mistrust because he never told me" angle comes into play, I'm drawn to the analogy of a woman having been raped as a teenager and perhaps later on having specific aversions to some aspect of sexual activity within the context of her marriage. Maybe the husband really kinda wants this activity and its known to be off limits. Well, this is something that you will agree does affect the marriage to a point. Is the wife required to explain her aversion, to lay it all on the table for the man she loves more than anyone else? Does the fear, confusion, anxiety or any other aspect of this darkness simply mean nothing just because there should be no secrets between partners?

Of course it's not a perfect analogy. He may still crossdress in private while she doesn't actually continue physically going through her ordeal out of choice. It's simply a different way of seeing the nature of "lies of omission".


Jenn, the bit in your analogy that sticks out at me is the one where the husband knows specific things are off-limits, but not why. There is some communication going on in that scenario in order for there to be those boundaries which I don't think has an analogy in many relationships where the husband crossdresses. However, I think that either situation can be devastatingly painful to the person enduring it and I feel a lot of compassion for them. In both cases, it's not that person's fault that they are that way; crossdressers never asked for those urges and women never asked to be the victims of rapists.



If it's something that comes out after the marriage is established, then you should meet the other person halfway and learn to live with it. Putting them into the closet is not meeting them halfway. It's no different than any other challenge put in front of you. It may be a difficult one, but there are some that are even more difficult. Just ask the SO of a quadriplegic how difficult it was to go from having a big strapping man, to a person that requires care in every single thing. I'm sure they would all like their man back, but would never admit it. You're not likely to hear them say, "I didn't sign on for this!", like SO's of some crossdressers around here proclaim, and even perceive as acceptable.

If it's something that's known before up front from the start, then the degree of support needs to be worked out then. I would not tell someone that, and marry them unless I had full 100% support. Yes, I am picky.

Kaitlyn, I totally agree with how you stand on marrying only people who support you!! That is super important: if your spouse can't be the person you lean on, who can know you through and through and love you just the same - who do you turn to when you need that?

Spouses of quadriplegics do get an awful lot of support - medically, financially (if the family was fortunate enough to have insurance), emotionally, etc. Spouses of quadriplegics can tell their families and friends about what they're going through when that accident just happened. There are support nurses and other helpers they can talk to and get assistance from. Organizations that help families affected by disability... but sometimes even the most supportive of spouses have no one in real life to talk to if something comes up with their partner that is affected by the cross dressing.

I think what I'm trying to say is, we're all in very special situations - and I don't think anyone else quite goes through the same thing. Some of us have an okay time becoming accepting and supportive. Others have a difficult time. The important thing to remember is, the only person who can communicate with your spouse and try to make your marriage/relationship and all its issues - be they dressing related or otherwise - work and thrive and flourish is you!

[kristinacd55]

I think what I'm trying to say is, we're all in very special situations - and I don't think anyone else quite goes through the same thing. Some of us have an okay time becoming accepting and supportive. Others have a difficult time. The important thing to remember is, the only person who can communicate with your spouse and try to make your marriage/relationship and all its issues - be they dressing related or otherwise - work and thrive and flourish is you![/QUOTE]

There it is in a nutshell....Babeba you've hit the nail right on the head as usual :)

[BLUE ORCHID]

I guess that I'm in the middle My wife tollerates it but it's a don't ask don't tell kind of a thinggie.

Orchid

[Diana Bain]

Hi Grace Anne...I'm one of the fortunate ones who has a supportive SO. As some here, we told our SO's before we were married. In my case I was compelled to tell her because I wanted to spend my life with a woman who accepted me and understood. With that said, sometimes it was not an easy road...valid questions arose from her (gay, sex change...etc). Over time she became more accepting and now the "Diana" side of me has become her closest friend. But it all started with trust...after twenty plus years this must be tough for you. As a person looking from the outside in (...and always looking for the positive.)...you shown willingness to adapt...may'be it's her/his turn? Good luck

[Sophie86]

Anway, what do YOU think is a supportive SO?

This isn't meant to be an exhaustive list, but it's what I could come up with at the moment.

1. Being open-minded. Not shutting something down just because the initial response is negative, but being willing to test it, think it through, and come to a well-reasoned decision about it.

2. Being able to communicate well. Communication about needs and expectations is essential for keeping both partners happy.

3. Caring about the other person's happiness. Not wanting to get one's way at the expense of making the other person unhappy.

4. Willingness to compromise. If the goal is to live together "til death do us part," then there has to be some willingness to adjust personal goals to that larger goal in order to maximize the happiness for both parties.

All four of those have to work both ways. Crossdressers are SOs too, and they also have to be supportive.

From what you described, it sounds like you two are doing very well. Congratulations! :)

[AshleyCDFL]

I'd have to say you're very supportive and that this is his problem to deal with. I say this out of experience. I've often got frustrated shopping with my wife where I am looking for a particular thing and she doesn't seem to be to involved with it, but the truth is, she is willing to stand by me in the store as I look for what I want. She has different tastes and isn't necessarily interested in the same style of clothes I am, so it's hard for her to look interested in things I want. Case in point: I wanted a pair of cute sparkly jeans that she doesn't like at all... We went to the mall and she was pretty much disinterested in all of the jeans (she doesn't like jeans at all). She straight out told me, you're going to have to look at them because this is what you want, not what I want. After exasperation, we went into several stores and I had look around and try on a few pairs to get what I wanted (which worked out fantastic, by the way). It was somewhat nerve racking, but after all, my SO was there to support me, so who cares what anyone else thinks! In the end, I got what I wanted and I knew before leaving that they fit me exactly like I wanted. You can lead a horse to water, well, you know how this one goes....

[Kaitlyn26]

Babeba, the point is that a chicken runs out the door at the first sign of rough water. If you're married, or in a union , it's for the rough and the smooth. No one likes a fair weather fan. If I were married to a woman, she would have my full support even if she did want to go as far as SRS. For me, the love goes beyond gender, beyond clothing, beyond mostly everything that's material. Again, I'm picky and maybe even unrealistic, but that's just how I feel about it. I think the world has too many "I didn't sign on for this!" divorces. If I were to lower my expectations, I'd be opening the door to yet another one.

Sometimes in a union, one person needs the other one to "push" them through. To me, that's support. It can be in anything, not just crossdressing or related issues. I guess by that simple analogy, a supportive SO can be defined as someone that is willing to help "push" you through the rough times, if you need it.

I think that also, maybe the relationships where there is a lack of support, the lack of support comes from a lack of ability from the other person. It seems like many of the crossdressers with support related problems are obviously, the pillars of support to the wife, and maybe she is really not used to having to be the strong one.

[Duana]

Even when he said (several times) he would quit to save our marriage and to bring me out of the black hole I was in.

... all the healing I've done and that he knows just how difficult it was.

But, even with that, I have VERY clear cut boundaries that I am comfortable with.

Maybe when I feel I can trust him again, those will expand a bit. But, I think not, I had to expand my boundaries quite a bit just to get here.

Basically, just because your wife doesn't like your cding and it makes her uncomfortable, doesn't mean she doesn't accept that this is the way you are. Or that she doesn't try to support you.

Anway, what do YOU think is a supportive SO?

I left in a few of your statements that stood out to me as not representative of a supporting spouse. You are or were in a black hole. You had to heal. You will probably never trust him again. It makes you uncomfortable... etc. I realize you're trying and I'm not trying to take that away from you, but you are clearly, to me, not a supportive spouse.

Allow me to tell you about my life after discovery and illustrate what a truly supportive spouse is.

My partner (gigi10 on this site), cried the first time she put my eye makeup on because she felt so much love for what she saw.

She allows me to dress as often as I like and I do, every weekday from the moment I get off work till bedtime, and I sleep in a night gown.

She goes anywhere and everywhere with me, proudly. I'm talking about the grocery store, the home store, the mall, the bar, to buy gas for the car... anywhere at any time. We even swim at the apartment pool in bikinis together and not at midnight. In fact, last Sunday we played dominoes in our bikinis with some of the neighbors and had a great time as well as a dinner invitation.

She defends me visciously against a-holes who make remarks or faces.

She buys me femme things all the time from earrings to panties to dresses and then begs me to try them on as soon as I get home.

She packs a bag for me everyday I go to work with my makeup, clothes and shoes to change after work.

And yes, we make love in both roles and she's enthusiastic in either, completely.

How is this possible?

Because she understands what it is to love a PERSON, not a man. She loves Duana every ounce as much as she loves her man. She has ZERO preference for one or the other. She loves the soul, the person inside and she'll tell you it is the same person regardless of the clothes or mannerisms.

Do I think you can get there? Very unlikely. You're perspective is completely jaded and I don't see a willingness to change. You need a complete reframe. Maybe
Tony Robbins could help and I'm not being facetious.

I did want to answer your question though.

[Allsteamedup]

Dear Duana,
Great! Can you now expand how you can do all the above with four children aged 19mths to fifteen years, including holding down a job, food-shopping, general household maintenance, taxi-ing said teenagers, etc as the male spouse? Oh, and some cding as well?

Could you offer any suggestions for any more supportive behaviour or thoughts?
Perhaps what we might be heading towards is how time is spent in a family and how responsibility is discharged for the good of all.

[jillleanne]

... Still don't think there are any 100% accepting women out there. Always that 1% lack of trust or boundary issue.

Oh contraire. My s/o is 100% supportive of my genger enhancement 24/7. Nothing in our relationship has changed since coming out to her a few years back, except the fact there are three of us living here instead of two. She buys me clothing if she sees something she thinks I would like, suggests I dress so we can go out shopping/dining, offers tips, we paint each others nails, go to the salon together, and overall, just accepts who I am happily. Our sex life has not changed at all, nor any other part of our reationship. She may be a rare lady, I cannot say. I do know I compliment her daily, tell her I love her daily, arguments are extremely rare, we share our femme lives totally just as we share our male/female lives and we hide/hold back nothing from each other regarding anything at any time. Maybe it's an age thingy, not sure. About the only thing negative about my gender issues she may comment on is if I wear something let's say, a little provocative when going out together somewhere. She will tell me it's a little over the top and I should change, so I do. Simple to slip into something she feels fits the situation and I appreciate the comment and comply happily. I have now been fully on femme for the past 5 days, 24/7 and have no idea when I will decide to go drab. However, if she suggested I go drab this morning, I would be more than happy to. That may be because I can be my femme self anytime I choose knowing she is 100% ok with who I am so why would I begrudge her a moment in drab mode? Everyone is different in how they perceive being gender enhanced and to what 'level', for lack of a better word. I believe I am constantly but slowly deepening my femme self expression but to where I know not. My s/o believes the same and neither of us are concerned about it regardless of the final outcome. We have long ago accepted we are just people living our lives and once each day is gone, it cannot be replayed. We have also long accepted we cannot change who we are and attempting to do so, would disrupt the truth and trust we share in our lives.

[J'lyn GG]

I left in a few of your statements that stood out to me as not representative of a supporting spouse. You are or were in a black hole. You had to heal. You will probably never trust him again. It makes you uncomfortable... etc. I realize you're trying and I'm not trying to take that away from you, but you are clearly, to me, not a supportive spouse.

Allow me to tell you about my life after discovery and illustrate what a truly supportive spouse is.

My partner (gigi10 on this site), cried the first time she put my eye makeup on because she felt so much love for what she saw.

She allows me to dress as often as I like and I do, every weekday from the moment I get off work till bedtime, and I sleep in a night gown.

She goes anywhere and everywhere with me, proudly. I'm talking about the grocery store, the home store, the mall, the bar, to buy gas for the car... anywhere at any time. We even swim at the apartment pool in bikinis together and not at midnight. In fact, last Sunday we played dominoes in our bikinis with some of the neighbors and had a great time as well as a dinner invitation.

She defends me visciously against a-holes who make remarks or faces.

She buys me femme things all the time from earrings to panties to dresses and then begs me to try them on as soon as I get home.

She packs a bag for me everyday I go to work with my makeup, clothes and shoes to change after work.

And yes, we make love in both roles and she's enthusiastic in either, completely.

How is this possible?

Because she understands what it is to love a PERSON, not a man. She loves Duana every ounce as much as she loves her man. She has ZERO preference for one or the other. She loves the soul, the person inside and she'll tell you it is the same person regardless of the clothes or mannerisms.

Do I think you can get there? Very unlikely. You're perspective is completely jaded and I don't see a willingness to change. You need a complete reframe. Maybe
Tony Robbins could help and I'm not being facetious.

I did want to answer your question though.

Actually, my question was NOT whether I was a supportive spouse, but was what makes a supportive spouse. I know I support my husband. YOU have NO idea where we started from. I am a wonderful person as I am, thanks. No reframe needed. (okay maybe a few tweaks here and there could help everybody. heck, even you) And not trying to take any of my trying away from me? Bull. Clearly a sarcastic statement. Good thing I don't care.

[Annaliese]

Your husband is a lucky man, you are clearly supportive of him, you may not like something but you are supportive of him.

[Duana]

Actually, my question was NOT whether I was a supportive spouse, but was what makes a supportive spouse. I know I support my husband. YOU have NO idea where we started from. I am a wonderful person as I am, thanks. No reframe needed. (okay maybe a few tweaks here and there could help everybody. heck, even you) And not trying to take any of my trying away from me? Bull. Clearly a sarcastic statement. Good thing I don't care.

I did answer your primary question in delicious detail. I suppose it was pointless to add my opinion of your level of support. Its been blatantly obvious to anyone who has read your posts here.

[ReineD]

Duana, have a look at my post #16 and consider that both GGs & CDs have different personalities and backgrounds, CDs have different needs, and each couple has different relationship dynamics.

The level of support your SO provides you would be too much for some CDs, for example. You know that everyone is on different points along their journeys, and some CDs don't even want their wives to see them dressed. For them, the ideal support would be to have some alone time on a regular basis. Other CDs don't ever want to go outside their homes dressed, or they are only comfortable with attending TG support groups.

The GGs who find out about the CDing decades into their marriages will react differently than those who find out within the first year, and they both will react differently than a GG who is told at the beginning of the relationship. GGs have different personalities, different exposures to the LGBT lifestyle, different religious and political beliefs. Some have kids and careers to think of, while others don't. Also, a woman who has had unsuccessful relationships and who has been single and looking for awhile will react more positively, I should think, than someone who has been married to her high school sweetheart for decades without knowing anything about the CDing.

These are just some examples of the many variables that make it impossible to say what level of support is appropriate or even desired. There is no "one size fits all".

The importance is that GraceAnne and her husband have an understanding based on their own life circumstances. They understand each other and GraceAnne's husband is grateful fort GraceAnne's support.

No one else has the right to judge, especially if it is based on their own life circumstances.

[J'lyn GG]

Thanks to everyone who posted in a thoughtful (as opposed to spiteful) way. I appreciate it. I feel good about my progress. But there will always be those that try to tear me down, I suppose.

[xristy]

What is a supportive SO? I think it is one that knows you CD and stays with you. If they were not supportive, they would be gone.

[BRANDYJ]

So you ask what is a supportive wife? Well for starters, you are GraceAnn. To me a supportive wife is one that knows, accepts and lets her husband enjoy his need to crossdress so long as it does not cross boundaries that have been agreed on. It doe not mean she likes to see him dressed or even to participate in any CD activities. A supportive wife will voice her concerns, likes, dislikes to her husband concerning his CD activities openly and honestly fully hoping her husband will be open and honest about his needs. The sad thing is many CD's will push the envelope and expect his wife to fully embrace his activities and then get mad or even hateful towards her for having limits or boundaries he chooses to ignore. Someone else said that the level of acceptance and boundaries will in time change and expand. But the CD husband should not push it and ignore the feelings of his wife or the relationship will be doomed. How many threads have I seen where the wife was initially accepting and then later totally does a 180. That is caused mostly by the thoughtless or selfish husband trying to push things to far and to fast making his wife feel less important. For me, there is nothing, including my need to express my feminine side that will cause me to makle my SO feel less important or second in impotance to my need to dress. So I may even hold myself back to insure she still sees me as her MAN; Or at least the image in my mine that I think she needs to see me as. Remember, she wanted and needs a man in her life, not a woman or even a man that goes over board in the pink fog. Like all relationships, communication, mutual respect, and honesty are needed for that relationship to survive and both to find happiness together. That means we have to compromise and respect limits of each other along the way.
So a supportive wife is one that knows and does not run or chastise her husband for his needs even if she does not like to participate or ever see him dressed. The limits of his exposure feminized is very different for each couplel or each wife. Some may be OK wiht his wearing panties 24/7 but not like his toenails polished. Some will be fine with his body shaved while others are totally turned off by it. For me, I can't or won't dpo anythign that I think turns my SO off. I need and want her to desire me, love me and want me as a man or as a woman to whatever level she can. So I have self imposed limits that I am very happy about. MY SO is very supportive and even likes me in fem mode from time to time. But I know if I was to dress fem 24/7, it would be the end of her being supportive. I could not ask for more. I am very happy the way things are.

[Duana]

These are just some examples of the many variables that make it impossible to say what level of support is appropriate or even desired. There is no "one size fits all".

No one else has the right to judge, especially if it is based on their own life circumstances.

If your premise is correct, that it is impossible to say what level of support is appropriate, than it begs a question. Why didn't you say that when She posed the question? After all, every response would be pointless if you're right.

My response to her is based on MY definition and experience. I'm entitled to post it whether or not you or her like it. She asked the question and I answered it. That's what happens in a public forum.

The rest was a response to what I perceive as her melodramatic verbiage eg black holes. I also consider her historical remarks about CDs. I may not have a right to judge but I have a right to an opinion. Relative to my world, nobody can define her as a supportive SO. Does it matter? No. I don't have to deal with it nor would I. That's between her and her husband but now she at least realizes where her level of "support" fits in the spectrum. And it ain't near the top.

[zorianacd]

level of "support" fits in the spectrum. And it ain't near the top.

And you just said it right there, Duana. Support from your SO/spouse IS a spectrum. You happen to be with someone who is on the more supportive end of the scale. Good for you. But you don't need to burn someone to the ground just because she is not as supportive as your SO. Good luck to you and the process of becoming more supportive, GraceAnn.

[Sandra]

level of "support" fits in the spectrum. And it ain't near the top.

So what is she or any GG supposed to do, go to the top do not pass go. Posts like this makes my blood boil, we have not only Graceann but others who are trying their best, and get it flung in their faces just because they don't roll over.

[Duana]

So what is she or any GG supposed to do, go to the top do not pass go. Posts like this makes my blood boil, we have not only Graceann but others who are trying their best, and get it flung in their faces just because they don't roll over.

Wow! Flung in her face? I suppose I should lavish her with praise for the tremendous effort she's made? I've followed her posts from day one and have not observed anything but a subtle derision and disgust towards CDs.

I understand not every woman is capable of finding any level of acceptance with this. Thats ok and their right. What she, and any of us, is supposed to do is get with the program or get a divorce and move on with her life. I know what I recommend for her and her husbands long term happiness.

Now I'm going to reread the serenity prayer, as we all should... especially the last line.

[Nigella]

Anway, what do YOU think is a supportive SO?

A number of members have had their tuppence worth, but lets face it, supportive is subjective.

My take on support is someone who is willing to work at a relationship, no matter the adversity. You are still together as partners, so you must be supportive of each other. :hugs:

[giuseppina]

Hello GraceAnne

I think you're doing your best. :) I'm not sure you like your DSH dressing as a woman, but you seem to be coping well.

There is one poster in this thread (not you or the moderators) who would be well advised to tone her posts down before they attract more negative attention than they already have.

[Joannas_fiance]

I just wanted to say that I am a very supportive s/o. And I too am very upset at some of the comments on this post!! We as GG's are doing our best. Enough of the wife, girlfriend, s/o bashing.. GraceAnne thanks for the post. I don't say much on here but I had to say it had made me very upset to see such negativity toward GG's.

Hope

[RuthM]

From all I've read there is a huge spectrum of CDers. So why wouldn't the level of participation from a GG be as vast. My SO and I have had our ups and downs as to how involved I want to be in his CDing. That does NOT at all mean that I am not supportive of him. GraceAnn thank you for taking the time to share your story and continue to be the supportive wife you have shown yourself to be.

[michelle64]

i think you are spot on...me and my GG set 1 boundry..never around the kids....i always try my best to put her first and that is why we have been happily together for years...one issue over the years is she wants to go out with me and thats hard..our work schedules are crazy and i may have 3 hours free and she is working...so i do no more than 3 outings a year..truth be told after a few hours ive had enuff shopping and want to go home..its just not the same with her not there...one thing we always do together is i always pick out her clothes and my daughters (when i can)..i dont even shop for me but i do pick out all her stuff and help her with fitting and such..i do her makeup as much as i can..i buy makeup while she is there and we experiment with colors in the stores together..more junk like this but you get the idea on what makes the relationship work for us...yes CD's get to hiding issues and lieing which is a root cause of problems..selfishness is another huge hole for many and is usually the CD's issue..only big blow-up i can think up we have ever had is one day i came home and all my good guy jockey underware was in the trash...i just bought that stuff..her replacements worked but i have had to hide my guy underware for work..she finds it with holes and its gone so i gotta always keep buying new (nutin beats your holey comfortable old guy underware i say)...i thhink you are more than supportive..he needs to put you and his family first..until we as guys do that the same old posts about unsupportive GG's/wives will continue to be posted here..truth is 99% of the GG's out there love it when there guy goes shopping with them for there stuff..

[Babeba]

Duana,

I really, really REALLY want you to read Sophie86's post #29 - especially the bit about the open mindedness, and the fact that it's important for both CDers and GGs to strive towards all the things on that list. I think that while Grace-Anne has had her very vulnerable moments which she has let us see on this board - and fair enough, she's had a lot to deal with that (as she's said) runs counter to the values her family holds dear as well as everything else life throws at people. Grace Anne has also grown her levels of comfort and acceptance out of love and a willingness to work with her spouse. Can we judge someone at the very beginning of their time here, months or years ago, and yet discount all the growth they have had in their lives since then? I think that is a great disservice.


If your wife, Gigi10, had responded a little less warmly to your crossdressing... perhaps if she'd just kind of looked up and noticed your eyeshadow and smiled a little and then turned back to what she was doing or just casually said, 'nice'... or if she hadn't been so vicious in standing up to 'a-holes' when you were dressed, just grabbed your hand and walked a little faster with you... if when you had been playing games together in your bikinis with neighbours she had thrown a coverup on to limit harmful UV rays on sensitive areas of her skin but not suggested that you should change... would you have thought her less supportive?

My point is, life is not just about grand gestures.

My second point is - getting back to what Sophie said about this all going both ways - what have YOU done to support Gigi recently???

Third point is - rather than a serenity prayer, I will leave you with the Rule of Three for a little openminded diversity: whate'er ye do to others shall return threefold, for good or evil.

[NicoleScott]

Suppose the issue were fishing instead of crossdressing. He spends a lot of time and money on fishing, and you are totally uninterested. I would say you are supportive as long as you are okay with his fishing, that you recognize his passion even if you never ever set foot in the fishing boat.

To my mind, supportive does not necessarily mean that you participate. I think my wife is supportive, even though she chooses not to be involved. We discuss it from time to time, and we try to accommodate each other

I was going to use another analogy, but I liked this one better. It's possible to be a supportive wife even if not accepting of the husband's crossdressing. I supect that Elizabeth Ann's wife spends time pursuing interests of her own. (Hey, if you want to [knit, fish, bowl, crossdress...] go for it, but don't expect me to join you).

Analogies: A is to B as C is to D. It compares the relationship between A and B to the relationship between C and D. It does not compare A to C. In discussions about how family members react to crossdressing, we spend time arguing about how/why crossdressing is/isn't an addiction or compulsion like smoking or gambling. We know, crossdressing is not like fishing (even though I'm hooked on both. haha..... sorry).

[TGMarla]

No one can expect a wife who has just found out about the CDing to have the same understanding of it as a GG who has navigated the CDing with her husband for several years. Things do change, and the level of support changes too, even if it is a wife eventually adopting a DADT attitude instead of threatening divorce.
You are so right, Reine. As usual, you bring a level-headed perspective to the conversation. My wife does not wish to participate, or even see it. However, we have a deep and abiding love that holds our relationship together. I'm happy, she's happy. She did once threaten divorce over it, but we both grew, and we have reached a happy medium.


Do I think you can get there? Very unlikely. You're perspective is completely jaded and I don't see a willingness to change. You need a complete reframe. Maybe
Tony Robbins could help and I'm not being facetious.
And then along comes Duana with a can of kerosine and a package of blue-tips. Typical. I find it really hypocritical that you set down the rules of just what love and tolerance means, and then fail to love and tolerate anyone who doesn't live up to your high standards. I'm happy that your wife is so supportive of you. Such a relationship is the envy of about 95% of us here. But that does not mean that many in that 95% that don't meet your standards are married to lesser women or have compromised relationships. This is not a black and white situation, and many women have a tough time dealing with it. Simply because a woman is not comfortable with the issue of male to female crossdressing does not mean that she is not a worthy spouse. I think ol' Tony Robbins might just have one look at you and tell you that you're the one that needs the "attitoodinal adjustment". You should take a closer look at yourself, but I know you won't.

Grace Ann, you have done a wonderful job of stretching yourself. Never think less of yourself for not getting 100% comfortable with this whole thing. Most crossdressers can't completely explain why they do this in the first place, so don't think that you have to understand it completely either. You just keep being you, and I'm sure that you'll alway have your wonderful relationship with your husband to compliment your life. You are far more tolerant of this issue than most women who deal with it, and your husband is fortunate to have you. And thanks for posting a most interesting and beneficial thread.

[DonniDarkness]

What she, and any of us, is supposed to do is get with the program or get a divorce and move on with her life. I know what I recommend for her and her husbands long term happiness.


As you can clearly see, having a fully supportive SO does nothing for a CD in regards to having some tact. This statement from Duana is why GG's dont become members of this forum. If you had said something like that to my Wife she would truly reach thru the bandwidth and force choke you like a sith lord

You can still be constructive about your criticism without being downright derogatory. But obviously this is a skill you lack... Maybe that is something your fully supportive wife can help you with, in between catering to your pink fog...and all its delicious detail

Does your supportive SO know that you are verbally attacking another GG who has been struggling with acceptance?.....Has she read this thread?....Where is her response to your combative advice?


Grace ann,

At the end of the day, if you know your making a conscious effort to support your husbands crossdressing, then that in itself is support. It doesnt matter how you get there as long as your both happy with your relationship. Both sides of the CD relationship have struggles in which we deal with, the best anyone can ask for is a conscious effort to love and accept each other for who you are as a person.

-Donni-

[Speck]

She allows me to dress as often as I like and I do, every weekday from the moment I get off work till bedtime, and I sleep in a night gown.



Did I read this right? She "allows" you to dress as often as you like? Did you really use the word "allows"? I can understand GraceAnne perhaps using that word because her and her husband seem to have worked out some boundaries. I should think in your case, none are needed. Maybe you didn't mean it that way.

Speck

[Nigella]

Did I read this right? She "allows" you to dress as often as you like? Did you really use the word "allows"? I can understand GraceAnne perhaps using that word because her and her husband seem to have worked out some boundaries. I should think in your case, none are needed. Maybe you didn't mean it that way.

Speck

And what is wrong with that? Without knowing the circumstances, don't allow your perception to cloud things

[Duana]

Sorry but I'd lost track of this thread and after reading all the responses to me I really think any more from me would just inflame the situation. I'll just say again that I answered her question from my perspective. There's a difference between being supportive and blowing smoke up someones... I don't coddle, sorry.

Yes, my SO has read this response and she's 100% behind it and me. She likes the way I am. You call it tactless, I call it not beating around the bush. In fact, I'll ask her to weigh in on this thread herself.

The entire subject is crystal clear to her and me. We believe either you love a person unconditionally or you don't.

[gigi10]

I don't understand. Perhaps my English is not good enough (English is my second language) Your husband had the courage to tell you after 1-1/2 years into your marriage. So it is not 17 years of lies!

What did you do after he told you? Did you research about CDing ? Did you try to find out why he was doing that? His feelings towards cding? How did you react? Or you just went into the " I don't want to know mode"?

I'm sorry but this is not like a rape case. In rape, people are raped against their will! The CDing is different. No one forced you to do it... This is important. If you feel like you were in a black hole..... you put yourself into that hole. Most CD's dont say a word because of fear to lose the person he loves the most and cares for. Perhaps he tried to tell you many times. Perhaps he hinted and your reaction was not the one he wanted. But you can not take away his courage of telling you after 1-1/2 years.

Then you said it was status quo for 4 years until he went into the pink fog and nothing was ever enough. You had a panic attack. You knew about his CDing so why the panic attack? I am not preaching about love, because love is different to everyone, but love in essence is to make the other person happy. It can not be a one way road! So you were for a long time thinking about you.

Something comes to my mind. When I got the news I had lymphoma cancer, my CD (in those days I didn't know he was one, I don't think he even knew he was one I will tell my story in another post) and my best friend, they started to research about lymphoma, I couldn't... They read so much about my cancer. You know why? Because they cared. They wanted to know how they could help!

I remember saying to my CD, that I had no right to be with him or make him stay with me because I didn't know how long I had to live. He told me that he loves me so much, that no one knows who will go first, those words made me love him even more. He had the chance to go, he chose to stay.

You called yourself reluctantly accepting. If you said that, it is because you feel that way. You already put a big NO into your mind. You also said "I am willing to try to be okay with different things like, right now. We are giving it a second try at painted toe nails. So good, so far..."

I think some GG's forget that the CD's, beside the dressing up like a woman - also feel like a woman. Their feelings can be hurt for simple things! How many GG's we complained that our partners don't like to go shopping with us or help us to choose something? We wish a partner to be more involved into our women's world! So if you said, "Do you need anything?" or I sit with him while he gets ready, not the whole time, but a while. Why not to stay and help? Or do you feel embarrassed?

You also said "Even when he said (several times) he would quit to save your marriage and to bring me out of the black hole I was in, I never made him. I wanted him to. But if chose to do that, then he chose that himself, not b/c I said he had to. If he did, it would destroy us anyway."

Do you really think, he can quit? Do you think that to save a marriage is only one person' s obligation , to have to sacrifice? You also said you never made him, but you wanted to. I think you never ever in so many years tried to understand what was going on with him.

You lost so many precious years . I think you cared more about you than anything else. Perhaps you care more about your neighbors than him? Your "friends" than him? You know what? Neighbors are neighbors. They are not going to dictate how to live your life. They do not pay your bills. Your real friends will understand and stay with you no matter what. Perhaps they wont like it or understand, but they will stay. The problem is you.Deep inside, after so many years, you are not coming to terms with your husband's CDing. So there are two miserable people living under one roof feeling very unhappy.

You also said "he appreciates all the healing I've done and that he knows just how difficult it was." I have not seen one paragraph that you put yourself in his shoes or heels? Did you ever think about his feelings, that how hard it was for him too? You mentioned "healing" and "difficult", ...If you didn't like it, why did you stay so long?

You also mentioned " He told one of his CDing friends that I am his hero. I don't know about that." I think you were right. If you think that way is because you truly know that you have not done anything to be a hero! Heroes save! Heroes help and protect. Do you feel like you have protected him or yourself?

You also have said ...." I have VERY clear cut boundaries that I am comfortable with." How about to say the magic word "WE"

You also said "Maybe when I feel I can trust him again" Again? Trust? Hmmmmm... Am I understanding right?Do you still hold that grudge that he didn't tell you for so long, like 17 years, which is not true (your words)... He told you 1 1/2 years into your marriage.

You already made a decision. You are not willing...You said, "I had to expand my boundaries quite a bit just to get here." Again and again, you only think about yourself!

"We have an 'always ask, always tell' type policy." LOL Oh, that was a good one. :D

I think it is a good policy. Did you both come to that conclusion or you were the one to say it? Seems to me that your husband does not have any say at all.

You mentioned "Basically, just because a wife doesn't like your CDing and it makes her uncomfortable, doesn't mean she doesn't accept that this is the way you are. Or that she doesn't try to support you." For me, I can't understand HOW a person who feels uncomfortable can be supportive, How do you think your CD will feel knowing that you do not like it? Do you really think he will come to you when he in his femme mode and feeling down? Do you think that he will see in you the person that he can cry on your shoulder because some idiot made a stupid remark? What I truly believe is... If you say, "Be a cd but not in front of me ....is supportive... You are wrong.

You are pushing your relationship into a disaster. Pushing him into finding someone who can fully accept him/her. Remember we all need love. We all need to be needed. We all need to feel happy. He knows he can not get any from you. So to stay married or fear to be lonely you are making your life miserable. I know is not easy but if you know, as you mention in few places you can not change, please let him go. Let him be happy, fully happy with someone else that will love him/her unconditionally. And you also deserve to be happy and not to spend your days and nights wondering if he is lying or not, or what he is doing. That is NO LIFE! Your mind is eating your heart.

Sorry my intention was not to offend anyone. I am a very objective person. I go by your own words. I am not trying to say that my way is the only way or that I am the best SO or anything like that or that is my way or nothing. No. I just replied because of the words you were using.

If you are asking me if you are a supportive spouse? You, only you by your actions know if you really are or not.

Just my last analogy. In Spanish we say "migas de amor" which means "Crumbs of love." You are throwing your CD, crumbs of love and that will not cure the hunger in his belly.
Life is too short ....we all deserve to be happy !

[J'lyn GG]

I am shocked that a seemingly open and accepting person seems to be so judgemental. If I'm not doing it your way, then I'm doing it wrong? You have made alot of assumptions based on what your SO wants you to think/believe. There is 18 YEARS of stuff you don't know about. We have done different things in the distant past and the more recent past to make our MARRIAGE work for us. That's all that really matters. Marriage and dating are two totally different things. When you have walked in my shoes, then we can talk, until then, its not fair of you to talk down to me, b/c we don't think the same. I can make assumptions about your relationship and air them for everyone to see, but I don't.

[Sophie86]

If you are asking me if you are a supportive spouse?

You know, she didn't ask that. She asked, "what do YOU think is a supportive SO?" She didn't ask for people to pass judgment on her life, she just asked for their perspective on what it means to be supportive. See the difference? The parts of your story that are just about you and your SO are very moving and inspirational, but the parts where you're slamming someone else, not so much. :sad:

[CO_Bobbie]

WOW, I came back to this thread with the intention of talking about my SO, I still will, but I have to say I'm a little taken aback by the sharp turn this thread has taken. I had the impression that it was a positive thread where we can talk about what we see as positive and supportive people in our lives. I'm willing to bet that we each have our own way of cross dressing, and that our SOs also have their own way of coping with what can be a very difficult situation for them.

All we see here in these posts are the things we are (or you) are willing to share and that is colored by our experiences in our relationships. I love my wife, and I know she loves me. She doesn't like everything I do and I don't like everything she does, guess what, we're human, and that's normal. I'm happy for GiGi's SO that she appears to be so accepting, but that doesn't make anyone else's experience any less valid... Done with my soapbox!

Now for my story...

I came to realize very late in my life (and quite recently) that my enjoyment of wearing stockings was actually a need to cross dress. I had been wearing a kilt and painting my toes for a long time, I just never gave it a name, or understood what I was feeling. But that is my story and about my wife being supporting. I'm still learning, I wear the clothes, but have not yet tried make-up, I have no idea where to even start, what my wife did for me was to arrange for me to have a consultation with a wig expert and a makeup lesson from a professional...

[Duana]

If you are asking me if you are a supportive spouse?... You know, she didn't ask that.

And your selective editing is intellectualy dishonest, Sophie. She, gigi, answered her own rhetorical question by saying, "You, only you by your actions know if you really are or not." So show me some judgement in that?

The fact is, Graceann, you, gigi, me and the rest of the world know the answer. It really doesn't need answering. But she asked the question because she was questioning herself, as she well should.

[gigi10]

GraceAnne, I think you did not read my post properly. I never said my way is the right one all. I just went by your post...You are right and I said that there is more we don't know. The only thing I know is that it has been 18 years and you haven't changed.

By the way I am not dating, we have a very solid relationship for six years and that is not dating at all! We live together also. I am glad I am not in your shoes, I am glad we are different, I am glad that I am this way that I can not hold a grudge. 18 years is a long time. By the way you are welcome to make any assumptions about my relationship, guess what... The truth is that my CD is happy. We are happy. We go everywhere and I am very proud of her.

[Duana]

I'm happy for GiGi's SO that she appears to be so accepting, but that doesn't make anyone else's experience any less valid... Done with my soapbox!


A. She doesn't APPEAR to be accepting. She isn't even accepting. She is encouraging. Don't believe me, take a look at my facebook. We've got dozens of pics together out and about, doing everything.

https://www.facebook.com/duana.cross

B. What exactly does it mean, that someone elses experiences are "less valid". That's psychobabble which has no real meaning. Obviously, experiences are valid. They happened. What is in question is the person's interpretation and reaction to those experiences. I agree many women are not at the level of maturity and sophistication of my gigi, such is life.

[gigi10]

So, is she didn't want any comments on that, why did she write it in her post ? I didn't slam anyone.... I just quoted her own words...She slammed herself.

Did I ever mention that my way is the only way ? or my way is more valid than others??? from where did you get that??? AGAIN... I was quoting the post,her own words not mine! There is a saying..... If you can not take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

[CO_Bobbie]

A. She doesn't APPEAR to be accepting. She isn't even accepting. She is encouraging. Don't believe me, take a look at my facebook. We've got dozens of pics together out and about, doing everything.

https://www.facebook.com/duana.cross

B. What exactly does it mean, that someone elses experiences are "less valid". That's psychobabble which has no real meaning. Obviously, experiences are valid. They happened. What is in question is the person's interpretation and reaction to those experiences. I agree many women are not at the level of maturity and sophistication of my gigi, such is life.

That's just my point, what you see is different than what I see, in any case, she is accepting of her SO... As for "Less valid" please don't take my comment out of context. I am not marginalizing anyone's experience, lord knows this is hard enough as it is.

[Sophie86]

And your selective editing is intellectualy dishonest, Sophie. She, gigi, answered her own rhetorical question by saying, "You, only you by your actions know if you really are or not." So show me some judgement in that?

I'm not going to fisk her post to point out all the spots where she gets judgmental. Anyone who reads it can see for themselves and come to their own conclusion.


The fact is, Graceann, you, gigi, me and the rest of the world know the answer. It really doesn't need answering. But she asked the question because she was questioning herself, as she well should.

That's your interpretation of her motives. The question she actually asked was, "what do YOU think is a supportive SO?" Everything you wanted to say about your own relationship and how your gf is your ideal of a supportive SO could have been said without attacking her, and without making any sort of comparison.

[Duana]

That's your interpretation of her motives.

You seem like an intelligent person, out of curiousity, what is YOUR interpretation of her motive? Because honestly I can only see one logical interpretation, one of seeking validation.

[JohnH]

My wife not only tolerates my crossdressing, she wants me to be on female hormones so I can be more relaxed with life. I feel so much better since I have gone on estrogel.

Johanna

[ReineD]

Gigi & Duana, you have different personalities and values, different backgrounds and life experiences than GraceAnne and her husband. What works for you will not be the same as what works for them or someone else. When I read between your words, Gigi, I see that you want to help. I see that you are a passionate, fiery person who wants to impart what you know, in the hopes that GraceAnne can come to reach the same level of acceptance as you. I don't get the impression that you think you are superior to anyone, but you are instead putting yourself in GraceAnne's shoes and you are looking at her life as if it were your own. Probably if the two of you met, you'd end up talking deep into the night about your husbands, love, and your life experiences. And then you might be able to understand why GraceAnne feels the way she does.

The mistake is in assuming that we can all love only in a certain way, regardless of our value systems and our beliefs. Unconditional love is the ideal, but we are also human with a variety of things that get in our way. I rather think that GraceAnne's path is even steeper than yours was, she had to overcome fears that you never felt in order to get to where she is now, so her progress is huge compared to someone who began the same journey with fewer fears about the CDing.

Not every SO will be able to accept the CDing with the same amount of ease, just as not every CD will feel comfortable leaving his closet and jumping into the mainstream. And how much partners love each other has nothing to do with the difficulties they face in coming to terms with gender variance.

Please allow that we are all different and instead, applaud GraceAnne for her courage. Her husband does, and he knows her better than any one else here.

And to Duana, no one should ever be chastised for using this forum as a place to work through growing pains. This is why we're here. Maybe you've had negative experiences with a non-supportive SO in the past and you read your own experiences in GraceAnne? I don't know. If a newbie CD were to post his hatred for the CDing, his desire to purge, his shame and disgust, would you get angry with him, or would you post your own positive experiences and allow that he needs time to come to accept himself?

So (to everyone)... can we move on from making value judgments about GraceAnne's life now, and instead answer her question as to what, in your opinions, defines a supportive SO?

[J'lyn GG]

I guess my point with this post is to try to get some of the cders to broaden their idea of an accepting/supporting wife. I often get the unsupportive label, I think, b/c I have clear cut boundaries and a no nonsense attitude on how to approach the whole issue. I don't get everything I want and neither does he. But the concessions he does get are pretty big ones. So, I probably seem to get more in quantity, but they are little to him.

I said what my motives were way back in post #4.

[Joanne f]

Acceptance is going to be viewed in many different ways by CDs but i my opinion it starts with the knowledge of the wife/SO knowing that her husband /SO likes to cross dress but would not or doe`s not take any action to stop it or leave them so it doe`s not have to be a full on helping hand in it , unfortunately as i believe ReineD once said a lot of CDers only think it is acceptance if they can get things completely their way so i see nothing wrong with you pointing out that some should broaden their mined in what acceptance might mean .

[Sophie86]

You seem like an intelligent person, out of curiousity, what is YOUR interpretation of her motive? Because honestly I can only see one logical interpretation, one of seeking validation.

It doesn't matter. If you didn't want to validate her SO's opinion, you could have simply given your own opinion of what it means to be supportive, and that would have been sufficient. It's the difference between discussing ideas, and discussing personalities.

[gigi10]

As you well mentioned it, everybody has different opinions. To describe what is a supportive SO is like talking about beauty, all depends of the eyes of the behold.
My humble opinion, this is how I see it, again is my opinion and NOT saying mine is the right one or best one. This is how I see it:
What is a supportive SO....
Supportive person whether an SO, husband, friend, sister,brother etc etc Is someone you can count on. Someone who will pull you up if you are down, someone who can disagree with you but is there to help you.Not just to give the presence, I can have a manikin for that! Someone who can give you the driving force to go forward,
Someone who you can cry on her shoulder and you wont be criticized. Someone who can give you time... Someone who listens instead of giving orders.
Someone who can go to the middle even though they prefer to take the whole 10 yards.
Someone who is not selfish, someone who can care more for her partner than what other people will think
Supportive is someone who you can share your deepest thoughts, dreams, and you wont be made fun of.
Supportive is someone who helps you to make true your dreams even though they might not be your own dreams.
Please, I am not saying that a supportive person will do anything so they can get by with anything.

Someone who is to help you when you are feeling with fallen hopes
Someone who makes you see there is a light at the end when you feel all your roads are blocked. Someone who can help you to move all those obstacles so you can walk
Someone who can light up your world and make you forget all your fears

When you feel that the world brings you down and hurtful words break your heart you can turn to your SO she will be there to give you strength, to help you to understand who you are, to stand up for your beliefs, to trust in what you know in yourself not in another person,
Someone who is proud of be next to you, regardless what are you wearing.

Someone who doesn't see only the outside ... (When my daughter was 6 years old, it was Christmas time. I was opening walnuts. I opened this beautiful and perfect walnut! I was amazed to see the inside, it was black, dry and even had worms.... So I put the two parts together and I called my daughter and I asked her to describe the nut. She told me the obvious, beautiful, perfect etc. I said to her, baby in life you just can not go for the outside appearance. Look at the inside of this walnut. She was very surprised and couldn't believe it. I also said that could be vice-versa. After 25 years she still remembers that, and said to me it was one of the best lessons I gave to her.)

Someone who helps you to never give up on what's in your heart or whatever you believe in.
Someone who will never say the road is too tough and is better to quit.
Someone who will never allow anybody to tell you that you can't follow your dreams
Someone who can make you feel that you are not a freak. Someone who can see all the qualities that you have within.
Someone who can be there for you every step of the way....
Someone who believes in you and help you to conquer your fears...
Someone who can be next to you loving you no matter what!
Someone who is not Judgmental.

The most important over all is to support like the pillars support heavy stuff.
Do I need all of these to be a supportive SO? mmm is like the glass with half water. Is it half full or half empty. Is up to the person.
The CD's and their partner have to support each other, it is like a seesaw, a balance other wise would be only one who is pulling or pushing.
I think we all have the capability of having all what is in this list and more, the only problem is we let fear or what will other people will say to take over , instead of looking deep inside your heart and see that the person you felt in love before you knew he was a CD is the same person, we need to look with the eyes of your heart or soul.
That is my view of being supportive SO. Am I a supportive SO? Is not for me to say it.
My goal in life is to be happy, feel happy, make my Duana happy and make other people happy. Life is too short, and happiness exist I know because Duana makes me very Happy.
That is my humble opinion.

[J'lyn GG]

GiGi, I agree with your list, but, just b/c our road was different and we took a little longer to get there and we have different ideas of what constitutes each of those things, doesn't give you or Duana the right to talk down to me, belittle my progress, make assumptions and judge my path. (and that IS what was done)

Yes, I am proud of the progress I have made. I have a right to be. Yes, I made the progress. It was my progress to make. T helped me, as needed, along the way. But, I stand by the point of this post (of which I stated in the beginning). Just as there are a wide spectrum of cders, so are there a wide spectrum of acceptance and support. It would do this community good to remember that sometimes.

[Sophie86]

That is my humble opinion.

It was very inspirational. Thanks for taking the time to write it out. :)

[Mimi]

I think a supportive SO is one who makes the CDing spouse feel supported. I can't judge for myself if I'm supportive--that's up to my spouse, and even then it is subject to change. I'm accepting and encouraging when it comes to going out shopping or to dinner together, as this is in my comfort zone, although it wasn't when I first found out. So did I go from being unsupportive to supportive? Would I be accepting if my SO wanted to take hormones? Perhaps not, thus I could go from being supportive to unsupportive in the eyes of my spouse.

As we clearly have seen, each CDer on this forum has different needs in terms of support, just as they all have different needs in terms of the CDing itself. A CDer who wants or needs to dress on a daily basis and go out into the public on a regular basis, joining groups or socializing with the neighbors will most likely want a different level of support and encouragement than the CDer who doesn't leave the house or goes out on select occasions to safe locations. Support is also a growth process, for both halves of the couple. Each one should be aware of the other's needs and respect the fact acceptance and support works both ways.

Perhaps support is the willingness of each of you to set aside your own needs for the good of the other, while trust is the knowledge that neither of you will be asked to do this to the detriment of yourself.

[Duana]

All I have to say is my Gigi doesn't just talk the talk, she walks the walk. She lives, everyday, what she writes in that post. I love you, baby.

I admit I did talk down to you. My mistake for making it personal. My response was colored by your previous remarks, in other threads, which I perceive to be very anti-CD. I have my opinion of YOUR opinion of CDs and it's no more likely to change than yours. My responses were retaliatory. My weakness is in wishing to defend CDs, specifically your poor (in MY opinion) husband. I'm sad that he, and many other CDs can't live the life I live.

I don't buy the arguments that some CDs don't need what gigi gives me. I don't buy it for a minute. I've been told about 100X too many, how lucky I am, to believe that.

[gigi10]

Duana,


My second point is - getting back to what Sophie said about this all going both ways - what have YOU done to support Gigi recently???


I have to answer this,
I could spend hours and hours telling you what my CD has done for me. Duana has not changed a bit. This month is going to be 7 years! She is the most supportive person. She is and was very caring, she brings out the best of me, never criticizes me or my business ideas, for the contrary she encourages me to do it.

Every morning I wake up with a big smile, even if I am sick. She makes that to happen. The only great difference I can see is that now we can spend hours and hours shopping not complaining. Now she understand why I love shoes and handbags. Now she can understand that sometimes it is though to be a woman! She has always been very romantic, writing poems or even reading poems to me, dancing ahhhh. Now it is more often. She understand that for me little things are like diamonds.... Like a kiss or hug for no reason (more often) bringing flowers (more often than before). I wait every morning for " good morning beautiful or my love" those words make my heart jump with happiness.

I don't want to go to details, I had everything money could buy. I have been around the world many times and lived in many places.... but the thing I really wanted I couldn't buy it or I was not given, Until I met Duana 10 years ago and everything I was longing for .... I got it with her.

She takes care of all my needs, she makes me smile, she makes me strong, with her being a CD makes my life full of fun. I love it and I am very proud to go to places with her. I have never ever felt embarrassed! She rocks my world.

I have the best of both worlds! I never felt that I lost the man, that will never happen, she/he is the same person, he/she will protect me if I need it.... probably she will say " honey hold my heels!" I am very protective with her too, I don't want anybody to hurt her or make fun of her, I will be like a lioness protecting her cubs!.

[Michelle Crossfire]

I think i have a very supportive SO, if not encouraging. Just tonight, we went for a walk in a part of our city with minimal traffic and i was walking around fully dressed with her. It was part her idea, and part mine. She was a bit daunted by it, but still did it, and except for a few missteps in my heels, she didn't even notice and we had a discussion on a totally unrelated topic. She is always suggesting items at the store that might be good for "her". She comes home from work on my days off and i am fully dressed and she just goes with the flow. She still wants her husband, which i am glad to oblige, but we have somewhat of a happy medium between the two of us.