Activism [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Melody Moore

10-01-2011, 01:28 PM

Rennee You are correct out of a minority class, transgendered community is even more of a minority. We need to rally together an let those in charge know we have rights and we will not go quietly into the night with out a fight.

While I agree, I also disagree with your comment, the transsexual community is a minority on it's own, but
with the transgender and Gender non-conforming people on the same team there is no way you could think
the transgender community was any sort of real minority. It is interesting however you brought this topic up
here especially in light of the latest WPATH Standards of Care which is also attempting to build cohesion in
the gender diverse community.

This was also brought up today at my support group meeting because others also agree that the community
must unite to put up the best fight for rights. While there is division and 'in fighting' within our ranks we don't
stand any chance. All these are sentiments that are echoing around my local community from our local LGBT
groups to our sexual health services who also told me recently at a meeting "Gender Diversity is vital to your
group's success".

Previously my support group was only exclusive to transsexuals who fully intended to have SRS, but as I proved
recently, not everyone in our group is going to have SRS. Even the previous leader of the group who I just replaced
admitted at the meeting last month that she couldn't have SRS. So did that mean she should kick herself out? :heehee:

SRS is important for me personally, but I think that we should still respect other people's rights who choose not
to have SRS & not put pressure or expectations on them that this is what they must do. Anyway I am now the
new chairperson & coordinator for my support group after ousting the former leadership because I made this
one of my main policies that got me voted in - if the majority of the vote is in favour of my policies, then that
really must suggest that the greater consensus is accepting of gender diversity & supports cohesion in the group.

Now the new WPATH SoC has just been released which seems to fully endorse this, others in my group have no
doubts now that this was the best decision we could ever make as a group. The increase in numbers will give us
a lot more political power now :)

StaceyJane

10-01-2011, 02:10 PM

I grew up in a Republican, religious family but over the years I have become more outspoken for GLBT rights even at work where I am not out yet.

AllieSF

10-01-2011, 05:47 PM

Congratulations Renee. You have a great opportunity to help out. I know a member here, Tracy Schapes, who I haven't seen here in ages who is on her company's diversity committee and supports LGBT activities. She would be a good contact to see how she has handled all this. Anyway, thanks for your role in all this.

Kathryn Martin

10-01-2011, 07:21 PM

I am the first openly transsexual lawyer east of Montreal here in Canada as far as I have been able to ascertain. I will not be an activist, because I do not wish to be drafted into "movements" and be tied to the political agenda of others. I prefer simply helping individuals that make their way to me with whatever trans related problem they may have. I am current helping two persons in transition with legal, life and money issues. I am sure more will come in time.

Starling

10-02-2011, 04:32 AM

Some people are disposed to working in concert with others to achieve a common goal, and are willing to forfeit a bit of their absolute autonomy in order to present a unified message. Others prefer to chart an individual course, in order not to compromise their independence.

I think in the case of LGBTQ, both modes are necessary to success--mass action to attain visibility, and individual action to reify the intangible gains that are achieved. To my mind, Kathryn, your legal work on behalf of individual TS people makes you both an activist and an inspiration for others, even if you'd rather not carry a sign or chant a slogan that someone else wrote.

:) Lallie

ReneeT

10-02-2011, 07:06 AM

Kathryn,

I am pleased to see a growing number of lawyers who are transgendered, and i applaud your efforts. I can think of no one better suited to advocate for the interests ofour community than a member herself. Are you familiar with the Transgender Legal Defense And Education Fund? That isthe organization preparing thefriendof the court brief here in TN.

Lallie, i agree with you thatit takes pressure from all directions and from both individuals and advocacy groups to effect change

Kaitlyn Michele

10-02-2011, 09:57 AM

Hi Renee...I would advise you to be careful about outing yourself unless you know that you are going to stay in the same social and work circles, and you have no choice but to transition in front of everyone..
The future is unpredictable.. Unless you are totally absolutely certain that you are going to be a transsexual woman to everyone, be careful..and if you are going to be out,, you will need to make your hay off your transsexualism as it will be a constant and persistent part of your daily routine..

Transition is a loaded gun type of experience...anticipation, explosion, fly through the air out of control, slowly drop to the ground at a place very far from where you are now..(thank you..i just thought of that)..
when you are sitting there all done, where do you want to be... i would challenge you to consider that you really don't know yet...and the time for activism is when you are closer to the end..

I can tell you that everyone i know that has ever transitioned wishes they had told less people, wishes they had more options to lead a quieter life... I don't want to argue about it...this is simply what i have experienced.. and this includes some well known people that i have talked to...

I do my activism far from home.. i go to college campuses and speak but i go 100 miles away to do it, without sharing personal info.. I support my doctor's efforts for LGBT health education, and i"ve already got 2 young people to focus their careers on LGBT as physician asst's...start small ...I also live a mixed stealthy life which will ultimately out me...i live on my same street..i've talked to all the neighbors..my kids live with me and their friends know about me...but otherwise i'm just kaitlyn
and its all good...to me that's activism too...i guess using my analogy, i am on the ground but still skidding along to my final destination...

In business, you never burn a bridge, its all about building a team, and keeping your options open...same for activism...but Melody, you can't say we are not a minority...even if 20% of people were gender non conforming, then it would still be a minority...
that being said, its a huge positive to work together to reach a goal so that's terrific... $$$ talks...that's the biggest benefit to a broader coalition..
the rubber meets the road in the details though....

I have my own self interests, as do you, as does everyone...
TS people's needs are different than "non-conforming" people's needs.. and all the discussion i've seen around here is that we (we being girls with SRS) don't get it, and that we are moving in a direction of more gender diversity..what is lost in that, is that people that are fully transitioning have different needs, and if those needs are not supported, its time to move on from the "Group"...one thing the TS community has always shown is that the desperation around people that have gender dysphoria is a huge motivator and driving force...

Do i support your right to wear a french maid's outfit? GGG breast forms? Of course...do i want your rights to do that "tied" to mine? No.
I noticed in the crossdresser forum that people are posting about this and trying to figure out if they have "gender dysphoria"...to me that's a double edge sword...
The more ts people thrown under the bus for the broader "T" community, the more TS people will quietly get their FFS and SRS and disappear.
In your case, Melody you will end up driving out the fully transitioned girls...which is already happening...i realize you feel you don't need the people that left but i disagree..

and despite all protestations, we are a minority, and a pretty small one compared to most minorities...

Aprilrain

10-02-2011, 10:07 AM

Thank you Kaitlyn well said! but what is it with us TS girls and GUNS:heehee:
oh wait i think I know:daydreaming:

Katesback

10-02-2011, 11:01 AM

I see activists doing virtually nothing that I would even want them to fight for. Otherwise put most of the activist I have met are bugs, nut cases, freeks, and idiots. Many do not help trans people (worse some have no ideal what they are talking about and cause dammage) and simply stand in front of people and ramble on about thier story and how life sucks and all that. Many do nothing to help the trans people and often I see them akin to the gay parades where the freeks go down the street dressed in thongs and prancing around like.........well freeks. Always a great sight to see because the general population sees that to be what it is like to be gay. Likewise the general population sees these trans activists to be well.......wierd.

Better to just live your life like anyone else and learn to keep your mouth shut and be a normal woman than some activist.

Melody Moore

10-02-2011, 12:28 PM

Kaitlyn,

First of all as for driving out other fully transitioned girls out of my group - there you go again with your assumptions
about things that you DON'T know anything about. There are a number of fully transitioned women still in my group!

Only 2 people left & one of those people was the previous coordinator who was PRE-OP FFS!

And the post op woman who left has only been at the group meetings over the past 12 months in total for about
90 minutes. And 60 minutes of that was at last month meeting alone when she tried to rally support against me,
but failed miserably to rally any support whatsoever. That is why she left sulking like a little spoilt brat who couldn't
get her way anymore. What I found interesting at last Saturday's meeting it WAS other members who brought that
issue up. They were shocked & disgusted but laughing about the pathetic way she carried on as she was leaving.

She was the one who claimed that the group should be exclusive to those who were going to fully transition & have
SRS - but when everything came out in the open last month, the former coordinator I replaced came out and admitted
she had no intention of ever having GRS and yet she use to push the same agenda as the other post op woman FFS!

What you also fail to realise is that last Saturday afternoon I conducted my first ever support group meeting and it
had a had a much stronger attendance, unlike anything we seen in the past 12 months and all because these other
two women are no longer involved with the group - everyone who was there all said that this has been the best thing
that could have ever happened to the group. They also commented how the timing was perfect for a major overall of
the group in light of the new WPATH SoC. And they also said that I was the best person for the job. And Kaitlyn my
dear here is some news for you - this was coming from other post op members in the group as well!

Also the post op woman had been saying for some time now that she wasn't going to be involved in the group
anymore - her leaving is her own choice - not mine. She is still welcome back any time she wants, but it won't
be ran the way she believed it should be, the new WPATH SoC just shot her down in flames once & for all.

How the hell did you think I won over the support of my support group? by acting like a real b!tch or something?

ALL members of the group were strongly opposed to the previous leadership because there wasn't any to speak
of - and there was no democratic process in the group before - but all that is set to change now. In two weeks
time I will present the group with a draft model for our Constitution & we will be electing the interim committee
that will hold office and mange the group until our first general (elections) meeting. So if you think that I am just
doing this my way while saying "screw everyone else" well my dear, you would be seriously mistaken. There is a
whole process now under-way that also involves COMMUNITY CONSULTATION with all members as well as other
medical service providers such as Cairns Sexual Health Services, and other supporting organisations such as QAHC.

My name is not Google, so I don't think I know everything - but every day I learn more & more by LISTENING to
others & keeping a finger on the pulse of the greater transgender community by being a member here for example.
And this was how come I also pre-empted this change well before the new WPATH SoC even came out. This forum
has taught me so much and I am glad I came here and just didn't stay confined to the intersex & other transsexual
networks that I also belong to.

Another thing you fail to realise that the support group meeting content before basically consisted of a group of
people who sat around scrutinising while also whining & b!tching about each other. There was only one single time
where we did anything really positive as a group to help anyone who is in gender transition & guess who organised
that? Moi of course - I organised & got the funding for the first ever vocal feminisation training session with a speech
therapist for the whole group which was held earlier this year & am also planning more in the not too distant future.

This may also come as a surprise to you as well Kaitlyn, but I am not just a talker, I am a doer and believe that
words are very meaningless without action. So I would appreciate it from now on if you credit me with common
sense and some intelligence instead of trying to discredit me all the time.

Transsexuals are a minority group in the broader transgender spectrum. What I mean by this is when you
take all the other gender variants and stack them up against the transsexuals then TS is a minority group.
This was also something that a member of my group brought up as well last Saturday. I am intersex so I
am in an even smaller minority group but really that doesn't phase me one single bit. I still think we all need
to work together instead of against each other. Not unless your name is the "Lone Ranger" of course.

And as for your statement about those who wear French maid's outfits & breast forms having the same rights
as you - if they are out in public as their non-conforming gendered self & they suffer the same issues such as
discrimination, vilification & abuse as we do then why shouldn't they have the same rights? I don't know what
the law is where you are, but here in Australia they already have the same rights under the Human Rights Act.

Even though I am a writer for an LGBTIQ magazine & also on the committee for my local LGBTIQ group & am also the
coordinator for my support group, I hardly every socialise with the LGBT community outside of meetings & organised
events. I live a normal life as a bisexual woman now & share a house with straight ordinary everyday people who respect
me just like any other woman. I have some involvement with people who knew me before as a male, as well the LGTBIQ
who know me as an intersex person anyway. As for the rest of the public they have no clue whatsoever. I have never
been approached by any member of the public over any of my activism. Publicly I am very anonymous locally despite
my activism with the support group, local LGBTIQ community and other online networks.

I am NOT an activist who gets out on a soapbox at a public gathering (well not so far anyway) and you
wont ever see me in street parades or public protests waving the PRIDE flag or campaign signs - I leave
that up to others who want to do that. I am expecting that as a the local spokesperson now for my local
group that have to address the annual national transgender conference we are planning to hold here next
year - so that could be a bit tricky, but I still think that the experience I gain from this will be worth it.

I am preparing for interviews with the local newspaper media soon about the support group where my name
could be published, but I have already worked out how I will handle the media on that issue. I will insist that
they don't publish my name or my photo in the local newspaper because I insist on public anonymity for my
personal safety. And this is too easy for someone like me with some journalistic experience to manage - I will
simply insist on being referred to as the "Spokesperson for the Group". So you see we can all be activist &
still maintain public anonymity if we just use a little bit of good old common sense in how we go about it. I
also made statenents to that affect sometime ago on this forum - so here I am still standing by my own words. ;)

Kaitlyn Michele

10-02-2011, 01:03 PM

what you "fail to realize" is that i don't "fail to realize" anything.

it is not necessary for me to know that i am the same or similar to someone to be able to support their rights.. i am not talking about hatred, i am talking about day to day things...

it's incredible how inclusive you are melody , as long as everybody sees everything your way..

it is not necessary for us all to be on the same page.. working together means just that..even with loud mouths..

this is a thread about a person that is considering getting into activism..not a thread about your group..
i hope she is reading this because it will give her a nice taste of what she is in for..

Melody Moore

10-02-2011, 01:37 PM

How do you figure that I expect everyone to see it my way when in fact I am garnishing perspectives from
from MANY people in the community and other who are involved in trans-health & supporting organisations?

Go back and read my post properly....

How the hell did you think I won over the support of my support group? by acting like a real b!tch or something?

ALL members of the group were strongly opposed to the previous leadership because there wasn't any to speak
of - and there was no democratic process in the group before - but all that is set to change now. In two weeks
time I will present the group with a draft model for our Constitution & we will be electing the interim committee
that will hold office and mange the group until our first general (elections) meeting. So if you think that I am just
doing this my way while saying "screw everyone else" well my dear, you would be seriously mistaken. There is a
whole process now under-way that also involves COMMUNITY CONSULTATION with all members as well as other
medical service providers such as Cairns Sexual Health Services, and other supporting organisations such as QAHC.

My name is not Google, so I don't think I know everything - but every day I learn more & more by LISTENING to
others & keeping a finger on the pulse of the greater transgender community by being a member here for example.
And this was how come I also pre-empted this change well before the new WPATH SoC even came out. This forum
has taught me so much and I am glad I came here and just didn't stay confined to the intersex & other transsexual
networks that I also belong to. This is not about what I want at all Kaitlyn, it is about what my community needs!

Your rhetoric reminds me of the same crap we must got rid of out of our group. If you don't
like it - then simply don't join the group. But its ironic how the size of the group just suddenly
got a lot bigger, since I got VOTED in - so explain to me why you think that happened Kaitlyn?

I see activists doing virtually nothing that I would even want them to fight for. Otherwise put most of the activist I have met are bugs, nut cases, freeks, and idiots.

Kate, if you think resorting to name calling is going to put weight into your argument against activist,
then please keep going because I really do find this very amusing and I am learning so much from you :heehee:

Rianna Humble

10-02-2011, 02:13 PM

I am interested to know what other folks here are involved with, and what your thoughts on this are.

Hi Renee, in the hope of trying to bring this thread back on track, I will answer these two questions in reverse order.

I think it is admirable when people in the community speak up for the disadvantaged and unlike two posters in this thread, I do not believe that speaking up for someone marks you out as a lifelong "Tranny" with all the negativity that those two posters seek to put into the term.

I'm not entirely sure what role a "friend of the court" would play, because I do not believe that we have that role on this side of the puddle, but if it enables you to try to persuade people of the inherent unfairness of the legislation that you mention, then I say go for it!

I am taking a bit of a back seat with my former advocacy roles at the moment, but am still seen by others as a champion for excellence in customer service and for the rights of disabled people to be treated fairly.

I also work quietly with local LGBT groups who are determined to see that the last letter does not fall silent in their campaigns. Do I think that I know it all? Not by a long chalk. Will my roles as an advocate for underprivileged groups rights accrue? Judging by what other people in my community me ask of me, in all probability. Will that mark me out as a lifelong member of whichever group I happen to be representing at the time? Definitely not.

Katesback

10-02-2011, 02:37 PM

Umm I am surprised you felt I was name calling. I am also surprised that you suggest I am putting forth an argument. Last time I checked an argument relates to two or more people sparing over thier own points of view with both trying to come out ahead.

I am not argueing. I was putting my opinion in text about activist in general. I could care less what other people think of my opinion and wether they agree or not.

How do you figure that I expect everyone to see it my way when in fact I am garnishing perspectives from
from MANY people in the community and other who are involved in trans-health & supporting organisations?

Go back and read my post properly....

This is not about what I want at all Kaitlyn, it is about what my community needs!

Your rhetoric reminds me of the same crap we must got rid of out of our group. If you don't
like it - then simply don't join the group. But its ironic how the size of the group just suddenly
got a lot bigger, since I got VOTED in - so explain to me why you think that happened Kaitlyn?

Kate, if you think resorting to name calling is going to put weight into your argument against activist,
then please keep going because I really do find this very amusing and I am learning so much from you :heehee:

Debglam

10-02-2011, 02:50 PM

California just passed rather mundane, but significant legislation defining "gender identity" throughout California employment, housing, etc. law. I am not out but I actively supported this legislation and am happy to see that it passed. My TS friends made the "face contact" with legislators to get this bill passed. It benefits all of us.

This bill would make technical changes to those provisions by refining the definition of gender to also mean a person’s gender identity and gender expression and would define gender expression as meaning a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.

With that said, I first want to commend you Renee for stepping-up. If we all did this to the best of our ability, we would be a lot further ahead.

To those of you that seem to think the best tactic is to not get involved, to "blend," IMHO you are sorely mistaken. You need to remember that there are always going to be people who will always consider you trans no matter how far you have transitioned. We have folks like the good Dr. Ablow who claim that there is no such thing as being trans for crying out loud! If you don't stand up for your rights no one else will.

Melody Moore

10-02-2011, 03:01 PM

Thanks Deb for being so supportive of those who do stand up for their own rights as well as the rights of others
and you are correct in what you said about doing what we can to the best of our abilities WILL make a difference
and get us a little further ahead.

I recall Kate making a claim sometime ago that only those trans-women who don't pass totally as women
are activist - what a load of crap! I pass now without any problems whatsoever - my voice has also been
retrained and feminised. Additionally, we have a very young trans-girl who started transitioning around the
age of 19 & looks just like a natal female who is an activist. She goes with her girlfriend, a natal female to
rallies and they both carry signs & flags because they know as a couple they are both very effective in
getting people to change their attitudes & opinions on trans issues. You cannot tell which girl is trans! :eek:

"Our lives begin to end, the day we become silent about things that matter" ~ Martin Luther King

You have gotta love activism :heehee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrukMVc1eLI

Debglam

10-02-2011, 03:22 PM

I'm hesitant to say this because I am not out to the point where I am ready to practice what I preach yet, but IMHO, I think that real change will occur when as many of us that possibly can from CD to TS, pass or not-pass, stand up and say "I Am Transgendered." When politicians and more importantly, the average person on the street can say they know someone who is transgendered and that person is OK.

Unity and positive exposure. I think that served the LG community well and will work well for us too.

Starling

10-02-2011, 03:31 PM

In logic an "argument" is, "a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong,"* not people yelling at each other.

*I stole that from Wikipedia because there's no way to improve upon it.

:) Lallie

PS: Amen, Deb! I'm giving myself a year to come clean.

Katesback

10-02-2011, 03:34 PM

Well Melody now you are talking like a true activist. Your professing I said something but embellishing it. First of all you have never seen me use that P word. Second I did not say ONLY.

I more likely said most of the activist I have met do not present themselves well and don't fit into the world as average women. Hell how could one really fit in as an average woman when they are fighting for rights to be different?

Thanks Deb for being so supportive of those who do stand up for their own rights as well as the rights of others
and you are correct in what you said about doing what we can to the best of our abilities WILL make a difference
and get us a little further ahead.

I recall Kate making a claim sometime ago that only those trans-women who don't pass totally as women
are activist - what a load of crap! I pass now without any problems whatsoever - my voice has also been
retrained and feminised. Additionally, we have a very young trans-girl who started transitioning around the
age of 19 & looks just like a natal female who is an activist. She goes with her girlfriend, a natal female to
rallies and they both carry signs & flags because they know as a couple they are both very effective in
getting people to change their attitudes & opinions on trans issues. You cannot tell which girl is trans! :eek:

"Our lives begin to end, the day we become silent about things that matter" ~ Martin Luther King

You have gotta love activism :heehee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrukMVc1eLI

Melody Moore

10-02-2011, 03:39 PM

WTF Kate?

I am not fighting for rights to be different - my agenda is about fighting for acceptance for those
that are struggling, being dicriminated against, vilified as well as better heath care services.

and I know you don't like the 'P' word - but that is most definitely what you implied.

gretchen2

10-02-2011, 05:45 PM

rfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff f

TeaganNataliaAcheson

10-03-2011, 03:47 AM

I think activism is a very much needed avenue to progressing in our fight for equal rights. I have a few feelings and thoughts on this topic and in fact am looking for a way to do some sort of activism myself. I wrote a letter today in fact to Transgender Michigan a organization here in my state that expressed my thoughts about what they are (and aren't) doing.

I will say that I DO disagree with the idea that we as transgender people need to join up with the LGB community. Personally, I believe the T should be dropped from LGBT. Why? Well simply put you are grouping sexual orientation with gender identity, which have no bearing on each other. We have spent way to much time piggy backing the LGB organizations. How many of you have gone to one of these organizations to find everything in the world about gay marriage, gay rights, gay this and gay that, but could only find maybe a small snippet of something for us if anything at all? Truth is the T is often forgotten anyways. Hence the repeal of don't ask don't tell only effected gays and lesbians and I am still getting discharged for being ts. We have piggy backed on LGB activism for so long to watch them succeed and we are failing. And it's not just on these big issues, it is the small community issues as well. Employment for instance is for the most part very accessible for the LGB community. But come to my city and try to find a job as an out ts female. I have been unemployed for a year and a half. I went to TM for help and It says something when the two biggest things concerning employment on TM's website is a link to gaywork.com and a statement that says the organization is fighting for equal treatment for ts women in HOMELESS SHELTERS...... The fact is Gay rights are not Transgender rights unless the individual is both transgender and gay. We need our own space, and our own fighters. And truth be told, a lot of gay and lesbian activists don't get us enough to want to fight for us. They are too busy with marriage rights (which I am all for and will fight to defend) to be concerned with the problems of the transgender community.

What I am about to say I know many of you may severely disagree with, but is that not what activism is? Having an opinion and voicing it? There is a time and a place for "the community." Here is a good place for the community. Support groups is a good place for the community. BUT personally this stuff about "joining hands" and what not is CRAP. I am all for the rights of EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT INCLUDES THEMSELVES IN THE TG COMMUNITY, but I am not about to run out and say CD issues are my issues. I am also not going to say non-conformist issues are my issues. I am a ts woman concerned with ts issues. CD issues seem to revolve around "where do I shop safely?" and "what do I do about my wife?" These are not legal issues and not civil rights issues. They are self confidence issues and interpersonal issues. TS issues seem to be a little more serious. "how do I get a job?" "how do I change my gender?" "transitioning in the work place?" "what bathroom can I legally use?" "marriage before transition?". None of which are CD issues. How can we expect them to fight along side us when none of these pertain? Now don't get me wrong. I will write a letter to corporate if a CD friend of mine is turned away from shopping the ladies section, and I will certainly feel bad for a cd who's SO has left after finding out. I will even advocate acceptance of their gender expression. But I will not help promote an idea that our aim is to allow CD's to transition openly, change their gender, and cross dress in the work place. Why? Because these are not their issues. And as soon as CD's get on the bandwagon of promoting our cause as TS people, people will misconstrue the message because CD and TS are two different things. Then it will take more explaining to explain what we are trying to explain. What I am saying is the issues are separate but no one will know that until we act separately.

Sorry about the tangent....I know I got a little off topic, and a little soap boxy. This is just very close to whats been going on here recently and some of what was posted reminded me of it.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-03-2011, 07:09 AM

Well said TNA (may i call you that?!)

melody i simply am saying that your dogmatic my way or the highway approach does not suit all.
but you apparently can't have a serious discussion without being a bully and haranguing people that disagree with you.. and its old. i stand by my comments..
I don't have the time or energy to deflect the COUNTLESS misstatements you make about what I and other people say, or respond to all the times you take disagreements with your dogma as personal attacks.

you said..

"Your rhetoric reminds me of the same crap we must got rid of out of our group"

This is so off the deep end that i have to thank you for that... if my posting is what you are calling the crap we must get rid of, then i think except for the blind people reading this, every single person can easily see what you are all about...

I am universally supportive of everyone's right to full and total self expression.. and i have fully transitioned in the face of overwhelming odds..
i am an example of what's good about transition. I have talked to countless people about transition, and i've helped and guided many young people..I have a huge amount of practical knowledge, that i have openly shared with a very broad group of people.

but here i am getting my words twisted, getting bullied by you, patronized by you, and condescended by you 'what you fail to realize is...".. all of this because i disagree with you.. just like the people in your group.

and btw....the group is bigger? well guess what....the number of cd's and gender queer people dwarfs the amount of ts people...go figure

Traci Elizabeth

10-03-2011, 08:15 AM

Renee, being an activist is very much a personal choice and if that is your calling then do what you can to help the rest of us. Being that you are an attorney, you have a higher probability of affecting change than most of us or at least bringing to the forefront the plight of inequality that most of us feel first hand.

Only you can tell how being an activist will affect your professional, social, and personal life.

What exactly is Tennessee trying to do that brings you to this decision?

Good luck, more of us should speak with courage and tenacity.

gretchen2

10-03-2011, 08:34 AM

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

Aprilrain

10-03-2011, 09:21 AM

Renee You should follow your heart and do what you feel is right for your self and people in general. I think Kaitlyn's original point was simply that later on down the road a person may wish for more anonymity than they have and that that is something to consider when making a decision such as this. Correct me if I'm wrong Kaitlyn.
Teagan thanks for the rant I feel the same way. This summer I went to a gay pride rally with some other TS and gender non-conforming friends. Aside from being bored witless and wondering what the point was I thought, "what does this have to do with me?" I'm not gay (I'm a woman who likes men...OK maybe a little BI) and Im not super left wing liberal either which seems to be sort of the assumption at such events. I'm just a regular 35 year old middle class white girl and seeing "tinks" prance around in their under wear to Lady Ga Ga is NOT hot, those BOYS need to gain some weight and start working out if they want to get my juices flowing! I fail to see how this helps the gay community either but each to her own. I Have seen a shift im my local support group meeting from a focus on a place for CDers to hang out with each other dressed and BS about boy stuff AND separately a place for TSes to talk about TS issues like name change gender marker change, therapists, etc. to a leadership who wants to be more politically active. They don't seem to even know what that means or what their goal is but they want to be "more active in the community" One night at a CD meeting we spent 20 minutes talking about partnering with another trans group here in Ohio and that then we could possibly get money from them. I ask a rather obvious question, what do you intend to do with said money. NO ONE KNEW! LOL. I had to blink a couple of times to make sure i wasn't sitting in on a session with congress! the group I started going to about a year ago has functioned quite nicely for about 20 years simply being a hang out for CDs ( that seems to be all they need) and maybe 10 years ago they saw a need for a TS specific group to cover what I call TS 101. Name change, gender changer, doctors, therapist, electrologists, laser, personal transition issues, successes and set backs etc. there is as much need for this now as there was a year ago when i stumbled in wearing a bad wig! So why the need for "change" or "political action"? save that for an organization who's sole purpose is Activism and NOT support.

TeaganNataliaAcheson

10-03-2011, 03:04 PM

Well said TNA (may i call you that?!) Yes, you very well may haha, You think those initials happened by accident? Off topic but IDK how to change my SN on here, after a long talk with my parents I am keeping my last name, so my name is actually Teagan Natuli-Aine Winkler or "Tuli" for short.

Teagan thanks for the rant I feel the same way. This summer I went to a gay pride rally with some other TS and gender non-conforming friends. Aside from being bored witless and wondering what the point was I thought, "what does this have to do with me?" I'm not gay (I'm a woman who likes men...OK maybe a little BI) and Im not super left wing liberal either which seems to be sort of the assumption at such events. I'm just a regular 35 year old middle class white girl and seeing "tinks" prance around in their under wear to Lady Ga Ga is NOT hot, those BOYS need to gain some weight and start working out if they want to get my juices flowing! I fail to see how this helps the gay community either but each to her own. I Have seen a shift im my local support group meeting from a focus on a place for CDers to hang out with each other dressed and BS about boy stuff AND separately a place for TSes to talk about TS issues like name change gender marker change, therapists, etc. to a leadership who wants to be more politically active. They don't seem to even know what that means or what their goal is but they want to be "more active in the community" One night at a CD meeting we spent 20 minutes talking about partnering with another trans group here in Ohio and that then we could possibly get money from them. I ask a rather obvious question, what do you intend to do with said money. NO ONE KNEW! LOL. I had to blink a couple of times to make sure i wasn't sitting in on a session with congress! the group I started going to about a year ago has functioned quite nicely for about 20 years simply being a hang out for CDs ( that seems to be all they need) and maybe 10 years ago they saw a need for a TS specific group to cover what I call TS 101. Name change, gender changer, doctors, therapist, electrologists, laser, personal transition issues, successes and set backs etc. there is as much need for this now as there was a year ago when i stumbled in wearing a bad wig! So why the need for "change" or "political action"? save that for an organization who's sole purpose is Activism and NOT support.

I completely agree April. Support is support and activism is activism. Most likely the support groups are not ready for activism, hence support is needed. And activists, most of them have had it, and don't need to be supported as much. Some of us do not need the support groups. We are our own powerhouse and just need an outlet for that. I stopped going to support groups for 2 reasons. 1) I felt outnumbered. ie less important and because I was surrounded by CD's talking about things that simply weren't a problem for me. I couldn't get anything out of the group because I couldn't fully understand the person who waited 15 years to tell his wife. I couldn't understand why. Perhaps this is the age gap as well talking, I know this person had lived in another time. My 2nd reason was for activism, there was none. everyone wanted to get in a group and share their problems but no one was doing anything about them. I didn't need to have a place I could dress. I live full time. I think some people at the group may be upset and think I left because I don't want to hang out with CD's. Which I suppose this is partially true. It's not that I don't want be friends with cds its that I want to spend more time with other ts people. Hanging out with cd's isn't going to help my drive for activism and pushing for ts rights. Only finding other ts people will. Anyways I guess I just want to make it REALLY clear I do not have a problem with cd's. I just am trying to go a more activist route than a "hey lets be shopping pals and then go talk about trucks" route.

Rianna Humble

10-03-2011, 04:54 PM

IDK how to change my SN on here

You will find that the FAQ's are a good source of information. Your particular Frequently Answered Question is covered here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=answered#faq_username)

Teri Jean

10-03-2011, 05:15 PM

Politics aside, there is one thing this country needs to come together on is civil rights and our constitution. When one is discriminated we all are, when one is hated because she is different than the rest we all are. Renee you need to protect yourself but also speak up. If all did just a little the problem will be much less of an issue. Thank you, Teri

ReneeT

10-03-2011, 06:15 PM

Wow -this has turned in to a really interesting thread, bringing up many issues beyond my OP. Kaitlyn, i love your bullet from a gun analogy. I would further expand on it by starting with "aim". While i am only at the beginning of my journey, i know that where i end up will be heavily influenced by the degree of prepration i make before pulling the trigger. While i may not hit the bull's eye, i have a decent chance of hitting my target if i aim well.

Rianna, a "friend of the court" is someone who is not a direct party to a lawsuit but is directly impacted by its outcome. The case in Tennessee stems from a law passed in Nashville prohibiting the city from doing business with any entity that did not ohibit discrimination based on sexual preference or gender identity. The state legislature, in response, quickly drafted and passed a law prohibiting any municipality from extending protected status to any groups not already identified by the state. You guessed it - this does not include the aforementioned goups. As an aside, a similar satute was enacted by Colorado in 1996 and was challenged all the way to the Supreme Court, where it was overturned (a good thing). In fact, in a 6-3 decision, the justices ripped the Colorado law apart. The case is Romer v. Evans.

Kate, your statements are shallow and poorly thought out. Appreciate it or not, activists of many stripes have improved your life in numerous ways. As a woman, do you appreciate the right to vote?

Debglam

10-03-2011, 07:36 PM

The comments that suggest a wedge between CD's and TS sadden me. While there are certainly different issues that we face, the LEGAL issues for CDs ARE the same for TS!

When I first came to this forum, there was a CD (now a TS BTW - sorry, too many initials!) who was humiliated and bounced out of a clothing store for daring to use the women's dressing room. On another forum, predominately TS, the same damn thing happened to a TS woman. The people that would deny us our rights to simply be the gender that we feel we are, either permanently or temporarily, don't care about the distinctions between CD, TS, genderqueer, or whatever other distinction is out there. The laws that would protect a woman who has or is in the process of transitioning protect me (I consider myself transgender) as well.

We all hang together or we all hang separately!

Melody Moore

10-03-2011, 07:56 PM

The comments that suggest a wedge between CD's and TS sadden me. While there are certainly different issues that we face, the LEGAL issues for CDs ARE the same for TS!

I totally agree Deb - we ALL face the same issues - and as for suggesting we distance ourselves from the LGB community.
No way! My local LGBTIQ organisation supports my group, they provide me with a very safe venue I can use any time I want
to conduct meetings, they have offered me funding and support that we need for our group. And we all face the same issues
when it comes to discrimination, vilification and bigotry - but I find some of the most bigoted people are right here in this
community that only think of themselves and noone else.

So I believe by uniting together and fighting these issues gives so much more power to our voice. So I will not discriminate
no matter what.

And by the way Kaitlyn - my group has grown but guess what? Not with any CDers or gender queers - it is other TS girls
who have come back to the group now the other b!tch is gone - noone has any regrets about anything. And you ignore
the fact that my group has voted for me & not for her because I am an opened minded person who realises that we are
all different and there is no right or wrong path to gender transition and this has been clearly highlighted in the new WPATH
Standards of Care. So no we DON'T need people with any type of close minded attitude in our support group.

Starling

10-03-2011, 08:26 PM

As an early boomer (a late war baby, really) who has only lately begun to understand who she really is, I am tremendously excited by the idea of finally walking the walk. The existence of a movement to protect me as a valuable human being is an incredible boost to my summoning up the guts to risk everything--marriage, family, friendships, career--to spend my last years on planet Earth as an honest woman.

I can take rejection, ridicule and ostracism, as long as I know I have a gang who's got my back. I'll never be pretty, but I'll accept pretty happy.

:) Lallie

Katesback

10-03-2011, 09:19 PM

As ya wish. Have at it. Fight the fight. Go out there and fight for the right to be different and queer. By the way yes I do like my right to vote but then those activists fought for womens rights. All cool to me. Trans activists fight for the rights to be queer, different, and whatever, all under the guise of the wonderful word acceptance. Thats a big different than womens rights. And by the way if you want to fight for the right to be a woman and have a penis LOL well whatever.

Finnally in a previous post you called my comment morronic and that you would from that point forward disregard what I say and skip over it. Would you PLEASE live up to your word. I really could care less what you think but I am not attacking you or saying your picture looks like a crossdresser in a cheap wig or anything such as that. I mean really I have not pointed any fingers at anyone, yet you continually poke at me anytime you disagree with my perspective. I am sorry but if anyone needs help its you.

Wow -this has turned in to a really interesting thread, bringing up many issues beyond my OP. Kaitlyn, i love your bullet from a gun analogy. I would further expand on it by starting with "aim". While i am only at the beginning of my journey, i know that where i end up will be heavily influenced by the degree of prepration i make before pulling the trigger. While i may not hit the bull's eye, i have a decent chance of hitting my target if i aim well.

Rianna, a "friend of the court" is someone who is not a direct party to a lawsuit but is directly impacted by its outcome. The case in Tennessee stems from a law passed in Nashville prohibiting the city from doing business with any entity that did not ohibit discrimination based on sexual preference or gender identity. The state legislature, in response, quickly drafted and passed a law prohibiting any municipality from extending protected status to any groups not already identified by the state. You guessed it - this does not include the aforementioned goups. As an aside, a similar satute was enacted by Colorado in 1996 and was challenged all the way to the Supreme Court, where it was overturned (a good thing). In fact, in a 6-3 decision, the justices ripped the Colorado law apart. The case is Romer v. Evans.

Kate, your statements are shallow and poorly thought out. Appreciate it or not, activists of many stripes have improved your life in numerous ways. As a woman, do you appreciate the right to vote?

TeaganNataliaAcheson

10-03-2011, 10:42 PM

I still disagree with joining hands throughout the LGBTQ community. To take on all the issues as a whole, people get blinded. They may agree with one or two but if they don't agree with all of them then the whole chain fails. It is classic politics. Distract em with the left hand while you do something else with the right hand. If we make gay, and trans issues all separate issues we can pick away at it. Combine gay rights with trans rights you have two different topics and people are either for all of it or none of it. And that is my exact point, If you put gays at the forefront of trans issues people will see gay issues and not transgender issues, and vice versa. There is already enough confusion amongst society as to what the heck transgender and transsexual is in the first place. Half of them assume transsexual is just another name for a cross dresser, and I am sorry but we all know its not. And Melody, Deb, although I have a lot of respect for you and all the girls here I still think that the issues are far as legal ones are very separate. I understand the very unfortunate situation of the cd that went to the store and was turned away, but that is not a legal matter in the way of national policy, it is a matter between her and the store in question, a store already cannot discriminate against a person for shopping there. If we shared the same issues cds would be fighting for the right to change their name on a daily basis and their gender on a daily basis. Which I know is not their aim. Cds aim is to be able to express their fem side, that right has already been covered. Now I know some of you may be thinking well gender change is already legal. Yes, but in order to get it you have to be able to spend the big bucks on a surgery that is unrealistic for many ts women. Also many ftms will never have their gender marker changed because the surgery for them is too under-advanced for many to want to pursue it. Again, not a cd issue. But put a cd at the front of the issue and the message is lost.

AllieSF

10-03-2011, 11:31 PM

Hi TNA, I understand your point of view and you do bring up some good points. However, where are all the TS advocates, support groups and activists to make it all happen? The "T" side of the LGBT overall group is very disjointed for many of the reasons you and others have mentioned. From what I understand the "TS" side of the "T" side is equally disjointed. I understand that the TS's have more to gain in the sense that they need all the legal rights to be who they are a man or a woman, to marry, for insurance reasons, etc. Where a CD, like myself, wants most of those same rights while presenting as the opposite gender. I do not believe that the current laws and regulations, including the new ones in several states that are addressed directly at the "T" side would have happened at this time if "we" didn't initially get pulled along with the overall LGBT proactive work that got the first laws in place.

You mentioned that what a CD needs is not the same as what a TS needs. I agree that us CD's do not want the right to get GRS. However, we want the same right to go into any public establishment and to be treated as the gender that we are presenting, that includes restrooms, dressing rooms, et al. We want freedom of expression and protection from harassment and hate crimes. For work, I am not yet in favor of having the right to come as a guy or a girl whenever we feel like it. That seems a bit confusing and troublesome for everyone else involved. What other different laws are you talking about that should only apply to TS's? Regarding changing names, anyone can do that now for whatever reason. You do not need to be in any part of the LGBT group. Why would you assume that CD's would be changing their name everyday, and who really cares, because as a TS or as a GG, or GM we already have that freedom? Changing their gender on a daily basis, which I think you mean their gender presentation, I agree as stated above that that may not be a good idea, yet. What is your point about being TS, MtF or FtM, and for whatever reason not doing GRS? Is it that these specific individuals should have special rights, and what are those rights and why wouldn't a CD want and need most of those same rights? I am not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to understand what points you are trying to make with these statements.

I see no reason why the "T" side can't continue to pick away at what is of most importance to them (and I mean for CD to TS) and then piggyback with the LGB when introducing new legislation, etc. A little group will not get much backing. That happens in all areas of the government when enacting new laws. It is much easier to get something passed by joining forces with preferably a stronger group. The LGB is much stronger that us "T's" any day. They have been around for much longer and have a lot of successes to show for their efforts. I see no reason not to take advantage of their advantageous position. We are just too small and disjointed to be a real force on our own and to successfully obtain the rights that we are seeking.

From my point of view as a CD, I want to be tagging along with the group that will be most successful in securing my rights to be me. If the TS's want to go it alone, then go ahead and do that. But from some of the comments that I read here and in other articles on this specific subject, the overall consensus of the TS's is that staying tied to the LGBT team, so to speak, for the time being is still the most productive for them. Maybe when most of the rights are obtained in all states, then maybe other actions specific to TS's would be better working toward their goals alone. Anyway, those are my 2 cents worth, hopefully clearly stated.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-04-2011, 07:32 AM

no one should be harassed or hated for their gender presentation.
everyone that feels their gender does not conform should have the right to present how they want, and they should have the right to access all kinds of resources to help them ..
there are all kinds of people in the world...being different should be celebrated.
pretty simple, no? i have never said any different..

but when a transsexual (like me) raises their hand and says, well my problems are different..and i'm not sure this big group is for me..
we get lambasted by a much bigger group of gender nonconforming people...including loud mouths that CLAIM to represent my interests when in fact they dont
telling me that my "crap" won't be tolerated..when someone tells me this, its the same as any cisgendered person telling me this...its what i have been hearing my whole life from the outside world...

Because of this stuff, for many ts the answer is to get out of the group, and go live your life. the ts bets their entire life on this...she can not go home and change clothes to get proper medical care,

the ts experience is INCOMPARABLE to any other gender conflicted issue in this regard...

the concept of whether you are allowed to wear a dress this weekend and go into a mall and use the ladies room is totally and completely irrelevant to a transsexual...
i am not fighting for bathroom rights..i am fighting for my life...to say you want to tag along is to say that you put your rights to go a ladies bathroom above my right to eat..

i don't begrudge you that right btw..i'm a big fan of personal responsibility.
Self interest is a reasonable pursuit...I understand it goes both ways..which is why the best answer is usually to just go and blend in while the crossdressing community spits at your back as you walk away..

Katesback

10-04-2011, 08:34 AM

LOL so are you finally seeing how messed up and theses activists tend to be. They are not fighting for women. They are fighting for the right to be freeks and the ultimate goal they have is to be seen as normal as a freek. If you dont agree with them they tend to be as harsh and intolerant as the people they claim to be fighting against.

Ever notice that when they talk about the people they are protecting it sounds mostly they are protecting the rights of CDs. LET THE CDs fight for thier rights. Since most are too scarred to leave thier house what is the point. I dont see a CD activist group forming. Gee I wonder why?

Once again most activists are freeks, idiots, nut case, bugs, and people filled with hate and anger. And really when you think about it they are not women either. Somewhere in thier transition journey they decided it was a better idea to take the road of activist instead of learning to be a real woman. For some the reason for the activisms is redily evident when you meet these people because they dont act, look, present themselves well as women. Perhaps thats why they are fighting to be actepted as freeks. Gess am I onto something.

I cannot wait for the personal attacks that so many here do against me!

no one should be harassed or hated for their gender presentation.
everyone that feels their gender does not conform should have the right to present how they want, and they should have the right to access all kinds of resources to help them ..
there are all kinds of people in the world...being different should be celebrated.
pretty simple, no? i have never said any different..

but when a transsexual (like me) raises their hand and says, well my problems are different..and i'm not sure this big group is for me..
we get lambasted by a much bigger group of gender nonconforming people...including loud mouths that CLAIM to represent my interests when in fact they dont
telling me that my "crap" won't be tolerated..when someone tells me this, its the same as any cisgendered person telling me this...its what i have been hearing my whole life from the outside world...

Because of this stuff, for many ts the answer is to get out of the group, and go live your life. the ts bets their entire life on this...she can not go home and change clothes to get proper medical care,

the ts experience is INCOMPARABLE to any other gender conflicted issue in this regard...

the concept of whether you are allowed to wear a dress this weekend and go into a mall and use the ladies room is totally and completely irrelevant to a transsexual...
i am not fighting for bathroom rights..i am fighting for my life...to say you want to tag along is to say that you put your rights to go a ladies bathroom above my right to eat..

i don't begrudge you that right btw..i'm a big fan of personal responsibility.
Self interest is a reasonable pursuit...I understand it goes both ways..which is why the best answer is usually to just go and blend in while the crossdressing community spits at your back as you walk away..

Kaitlyn Michele

10-04-2011, 09:24 AM

kate to be honest, i don't support the nastiness of your post..

I stand by my comments totally, but i don't share the disdain you have for people that are different than me... not one bit

Debglam

10-04-2011, 11:43 AM

I'm sorry but I think that those of you who insist that transsexual issues are so unique that you need to stand alone should consider the words of Reverend Niemoeller:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Yeah, I may just be a CD but I consider you sisters and will always try to have your back.

Starling

10-04-2011, 01:29 PM

Activists of all sorts have been labeled as malcontents, whose personal unhappiness leads them to make trouble for everyone else. This characterization is as unfair as calling a completed TS woman, who wishes to live in stealth, a sellout.

Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, Susan B. Anthony--they all led movements that created great social change. Despite their flaws, they shared not only courage and leadership, but a spirit of self-sacrifice and a tendency to take injustice personally.

People do what they do for a multiplicity of reasons, not all of them pretty; but a choice to act on behalf of others, as well as oneself, should not automatically be dismissed as neurotic. By the same token, the choice to disaffiliate from a movement should not be judged as selfish or uncaring.

:) Lallie

ReneeT

10-04-2011, 02:27 PM

The issue of the nature of activists and their motivation is as complicated and varied as the individuals themselves. I do not believe, though, nor have i seen evidence supporting, the statement that activits are "freeks (sp), idiots, nutcases, bugs...". Rather than fighting for the right to be freaks, most are fighting to be judged by their value as humans and their contributions, not by their physical appearance, sexual preference, etc. The extreme example of where that type of intolerance leads is seen in Germany 1939-45. I firmly believe in standing up formyself and fighting for what i blieve is right. I also respect an individuals right to blend in and go quietly through life. I don't thinkthey are "freeks (sp), idiots, nutcases, bugs..."

I do have a concern with being grouped together with LGB as we have little in common with those groups. However, i agree with other posters that, until our voice is loud enough to be heard effectively on our own that we
benefit from the association with those groups. The T in LGBT stands for transgendered, and i view that as inclussive of cd and ts. Do we really want to model our inclusion practices on the approach that the gay comunnity took with respect to thei bisexual bretheren?

TeaganNataliaAcheson

10-04-2011, 02:52 PM

So what I am getting is this, I am crazy because I want my own people, TS people to be at the forefront of fighting for the right to be able to go into an interview and not have to just take it if turned down, simply because they are TS and people may know. I am crazy because I want TS people at the front fighting for our surgeries to be included in insurance and not have to pay out of pocket. I am crazy because I want a TS people to stand up and say hey "WHY IN THE F*** CAN"T I SERVE MY COUNTRY!?" Here is my very simple point, CDs don't need to be at the front of this fight. Instead of seeing TS people fight for this people would see CD's fight for this, and then all of a sudden the message makes no sense. And because there seems to be so many more cd's than ts men and women, people who don't understand the difference won't understand. Show me a CD who HAS to be concerned about a single one of these issues and I will stfu.

I am not going to lash out at anyone here. I had an opinion, I shared it. This is one topic, one small thing that some of us disagree on, I do not feel that this is something to make personal judgments on. And as I said before I do not have a problem with cd's I have friends that are.

Aprilrain

10-04-2011, 02:57 PM

I may just be a CD but I consider you sisters and will always try to have your back.

"A conversation that will not happen at work on monday"

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?161041-A-Conversation-That-Will-Not-Occur-At-Work-on-Monday

You spend 6 paragraphs describing doing make up, how to wear a garter, thigh highs, "sparkly" heels, corset (who the hell wears a corset outside of a bedroom?) You even describe how you put your panties on! With all that im not sure why you needed the cocktail dress! All of this in an imaginary conversation with a coworker, a coworker who in reality will never know you are a CDer unless you tell them. But you won't because "While this story is true, unfortunately this conversation isn’t going to occur in the near future"

Why unfortunately? Isn't that the perk of CDing, one gets to play at being a woman without all the real life hassle?

I'm sorry but CD issues are not the same as TS issues. CDs have real issues for sure, telling a spouse seems to be the biggie! most wait way too long and then have to deal with the inevitable backlash of her feeling lied to and betrayed. Most fear being outed some how but that usually doesn't materialize for the vast majority of people. These are real and tangible issues that deserve attention but the TS usually deals with all that AND tells the rest of the world too! including work! By the time a TS is fully out at work (assuming she is lucky enough to have a job) the conversation you describe would seem silly to her. She may in fact tell her GF about her nice weekend but the long winded description of undergarments would be weird at best! Wearing a corset? oo la la! did your BF buy it for you? YES! oh how exciting! so what's he Like!...........
That's probably a little closer to what that work conversation between 2 GFs might sound like.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-04-2011, 03:47 PM

renee to keep it very much on topic... your challenge will be to not get grouped in with people with different agenda's than yours..and your agenda will be to survive...to successfully execute your transition, you will start to face the issues people are talking about.. TS is unique in the larger group of minorities of all types.. and we are generally in last place...among the most marginalized group of people i can think of in society..and what you will find is a fountain of frustration and desperation that you've never encountered before..and the more you succeed in being yourself, the more you will be envied and you will find it important to circle your wagons and do whats right for you.. the beauty is its up to you.. you get to do what you want with your newfound life and thats a great thing... i only urge you to take your time and not do something you may regret later.

melody i wish you the best with your group..
I am reacting to you because of the way you bully and smear people that disagree with you..you make it personal and its ugly..the absolute joy with which you described your ousting of the "bitch" is something that has no place in inclusive and supportive communities.. the only common ground i see you accepting is the one directly around your positions...you put words in my mouth and respond to things i don't say...which is very frustrating

I responded back to you personally...i don't like myself when i do that..I am sure you are a strong and willful advocate for meaningful causes and you should be applauded for that...

Starling

10-04-2011, 04:52 PM

While I agree that TS folk have different issues from CDers, I fear that fragmentation will weaken everybody. Aside from the fact that so many (including me) came here thinking they were CD and have learned they are actually TS, and are now confronting scarier problems, the big picture is that all gender and preference issues, in the US at least, are lumped together in the public mind as Dirty Sex Stuff.

Nonetheless, half-naked (and half-assed) drag queens have always been a feature of Pride events, and yet gays have achieved basically everything they fought for except marriage--and that will happen very soon. Personally, I prefer to behave in a socially sensitive way, because I do not like drawing attention to myself; but no matter how "dignified" we are, we're not going to get the hardcore haters on our side.

What gives me hope, though, is the generational shift in attitudes. Young people don't seem to care very much about the differences that have so preoccupied the American mind, including race, gender and sexual preference. I'm very happy for the folks who are just coming out now. The world will be much more welcoming, I think.

:) "Lallyanna"

Rianna Humble

10-04-2011, 05:00 PM

I do have a concern with being grouped together with LGB as we have little in common with those groups. However, i agree with other posters that, until our voice is loud enough to be heard effectively on our own that we benefit from the association with those

Yes, it's true that sexuality is different to and distinct from gender, but Stonewall was initially about LGB folks rioting against the mistreatment of T folks by the authorities. It was allowed to become about LGB rights, but the start was a protest by Lesbians and Gays against the maltreatment of a group of Transgender folk who were trying to spend some time together without bothering other people. They saw another minority being discriminated against and said in effect "We refuse to stand by and let this happen".

Debglam

10-04-2011, 06:42 PM

You spend 6 paragraphs describing doing make up, how to wear a garter, thigh highs, "sparkly" heels, corset (who the hell wears a corset outside of a bedroom?)

Yes, as I said, I am a crossdresser and for the first time in my life am getting to enjoy things like this. Too long in coming. Yes, I do get to retreat back to my male mode at the end of the day. Is this trivial to someone who spent their lives knowing that they were a woman 100%? I would guess so. (Yeah, I'm kind of sorry about that corset too BTW.)

April, I'm not going to fight with you but I stand by what I said. If you look at my earlier post, I freely admit that we have separate issues and problems, but many of our LEGAL concerns are the same. Does it matter if I support a bill that gives you job protection and health care benefits wearing a suit and tie when I go to the legislators office? Does it matter when I vote?

Look, and this isn't directed at you but the concept of empathy seems to be lost here. After I spent the evening getting to express a feminine side I've had to hide for most of my life, I spent the remainder of the evening sitting around and talking with my friends who just got back from Thailand getting GRS. I love these women. Do you really think that just because I haven't suffered the trials and tribulations of living full time or transitioning that I can't feel for my friends, for you or anyone else going down that path?

We can agree to disagree but I think working together will get us both a lot more of what we want. As I said before, the people that would deny us our rights or marginalize us don't make distinctions between CD, TS, etc.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-04-2011, 08:12 PM

Yes, it's true that sexuality is different to and distinct from gender, but Stonewall was initially about LGB folks rioting against the mistreatment of T folks by the authorities. It was allowed to become about LGB rights, but the start was a protest by Lesbians and Gays against the maltreatment of a group of Transgender folk who were trying to spend some time together without bothering other people. They saw another minority being discriminated against and said in effect "We refuse to stand by and let this happen".

Very true rianna...

what's unfortunate is that people characterize a transsexuals reticence in joining a broad group of "sisters" as not standing against discrimination..

Aprilrain

10-04-2011, 10:05 PM

Yes, as I said, I am a crossdresser and for the first time in my life am getting to enjoy things like this. Too long in coming. (Yeah, I'm kind of sorry about that corset too BTW.)

Does it matter if I support a bill that gives you job protection and health care benefits wearing a suit and tie when I go to the legislators office? Does it matter when I vote?

As I said before, the people that would deny us our rights or marginalize us don't make distinctions between CD, TS, etc.

My point was not to belittle you or deny you the validity of your experience. I just thought you were talking awfully loud for someone who has no intentions of making their TG status known.
I'm glad you had a good time made friends and got to be you for awhile.
Sorry you tortured your self with a corset for 8 hrs? LOL

No it does not matter what you wear or what gender you are when supporting laws that make sense and are in keeping with the constitution. thanks for your support.

This last statement is where i take issue. I would bet at least 90% of CDers are in the closet, the only person discriminating against him is himself! Your out and about now, who is discriminating against you? Were you discriminated against at the hotel where you had your TG shindig? You didn't report that so I assume no. What is it you want, as a CDer, from the world that you can not reasonably have? To be able to go into a redneck bar and be theoretically protected by law? will it matter to you when your 6 feet under that the people who beat and killed you are being charged with a hate crime as apposed to a (love?/nice?) regular crime? As a CDer what sort of housing or job discrimination do you really have to worry about?

At the end of the day you're a man and I'm a woman. When we go about our daily business this is what the world sees and they react accordingly. Perhaps people can "tell" I'm trans but I wouldn't know because no one says anything. I walk tall and proud and generally blend in. I don't act as if i belong I KNOW I belong! Next time you go out dressed you should too! this world is way to messed up to be calling anyone else a freak