Why Do We Keep Referring to Ourselves as TS, TG, or TW/TM

[Traci Elizabeth]

For those who have completed their transition and/or who are living 24/7 in their correct gender, and who have changed all their legal documents to "F" or "M," why would you STILL use the "Trans" words to define yourself or for others to define you?

Whether you are mtf or ftm, wouldn't you at that point want to be called a woman or man as appropriate and think of yourself as such (I know I do)?

I am simply a woman and as such what TS issues would I have to deal with legally, socially, etc. when everyone else thinks of me as a woman and I can prove it?

What am I MISSING????

Why do we allow the "words" to follow us throughout life?????

[Jorja]

I use TS only on this fourm to make it clear as to who I am and where my experiences come from so that others (ie.... newbies) know I have experienced what they themselves may be going through or about to start. Otherwise, I am a woman.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I am a woman.

There's #2! Good for you!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its each persons choice. lots of people say lots of things... it helps us communicate with each other to share perspectives..there are asian women, tall women, and all kinds... ts women is another kind of woman...

what exactly is wrong with saying it? what am i missing?

[Michelle.M]

what exactly is wrong with saying it? what am i missing?

I see your point. At times we will choose to further define ourselves with more than one gender-specific word. Why does someone describe herself as Lesbian and not simply as Woman? Because in that instant she feels the distinction is relevant to the moment.

The real issue is this - if I choose to define myself as trans (or Soldier, or American, or dog lover or whatever), and I do so at my convenience and for my reasons that's part of the freedom I enjoy to be me. If someone else decides to restrict me by cornering me into a definition that may not be suitable (whether it is generally applicable or not), then it's a potential problem.

[Traci Elizabeth]

First off, my question was directed at those who have "completed" their transition and/or are living 24/7 in their correct gender.

I think you have missed my point or perhaps I stated it poorly. I see all the Trans "this" and Trans "that" while in the same breath those folks are writing many posts about why they are not being considered simply a woman (in MTF case).

Plus from a lot of posts I have read in almost 2 years, the underlying common thread is just that...most responders want to be a woman (or man as the case my be).

So my question is at what point do you stop calling yourself "Trans" and only want to be referred to as a woman in MTF cases?

It makes no sense to me that if you want to be taken seriously as a woman, then why would you want to be referred to or profess yourself as a "Trans-woman?"

[gretchen2]

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[Starling]

For those who have completed their transition and/or who are living 24/7 in their correct gender...why would you STILL use the "Trans" words?...

I can see how "transsexual" loses its original meaning once you have accomplished your transition and achieved congruence between the mind and body that used to be "across" from each other. Perhaps "former transsexual" or "transitioned" might serve, for the purpose of public discourse. But I don't see a permanent need to use "TS" almost as a title, like MD or QC.

Unless you want to, for your own reasons.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

First off, my question was directed at those who have "completed" their transition and/or are living 24/7 in their correct gender.

I think you have missed my point or perhaps I stated it poorly. I see all the Trans "this" and Trans "that" while in the same breath those folks are writing many posts about why they are not being considered simply a woman (in MTF case).

Plus from a lot of posts I have read in almost 2 years, the underlying common thread is just that...most responders want to be a woman (or man as the case my be).

So my question is at what point do you stop calling yourself "Trans" and only want to be referred to as a woman in MTF cases?

It makes no sense to me that if you want to be taken seriously as a woman, then why would you want to be referred to or profess yourself as a "Trans-woman?"

well then your question is directed at me..

michelle is right...i enjoy great freedom to be myself..i don't advertise it, but my reality is that i spent my first 46 yrs as a male..i had a penis, i have male genes...that makes me, me...and when someone says to me transsexual! i really don't care that much..i'm totally comfortable being who i am..

i guess that means i don't want to be taken seriously as a woman...:sad:

[Traci Elizabeth]

i guess that means i don't want to be taken seriously as a woman...:sad:

It's always good to rattle the bushes and ruffle some feathers! It results in soul searching and discovery. And if you want to be transgendered that's fine.

[Frances]

I am stealth in all areas of life except with some people who have transitioned or who are in the process of transitioning. I only use the qualifier trans on this forum to differiente myself from cis-gendered forumites, and usually follow the term with woman (trans woman). I use it with people who see my ID or other papers that still indicated my former gender to explain things quickly.

My mother fought cancer for 18 years, pratically half her life. She did not introduce herself as Renée: cancer-stricken woman. But in a group of people battling various diseases, she might have, and I use trans woman here.

[Aprilrain]

I would never introduce myself as trans unless it were pertinent for some reason. For instance I was asked after a CD meeting I went to if I was A GG! I was quite flattered and told the person who asked that I was TS. Also I could see it being pertinent at a doctors office, For instance I heard a story about a lady who went to see her doctor but she was out of town so she got one of the other doctors in the practice. That doctor wanted to suspend the patients HRT until she had had a recent PAP smear! the patient explained that she was a Pre OP trans woman! LOL. I don't mind using it here for clarification when needed.

[TeaganNataliaAcheson]

For those who have completed their transition and/or who are living 24/7 in their correct gender, and who have changed all their legal documents to "F" or "M," why would you STILL use the "Trans" words to define yourself or for others to define you?

Whether you are mtf or ftm, wouldn't you at that point want to be called a woman or man as appropriate and think of yourself as such (I know I do)?

I am simply a woman and as such what TS issues would I have to deal with legally, socially, etc. when everyone else thinks of me as a woman and I can prove it?

What am I MISSING????

Why do we allow the "words" to follow us throughout life?????

I haven't started transition yet, but I will never fully leave the TS, TW, t*girl, trans labels behind. I don't know when I will begin transition, I only live full time atm, but have not started hrt. My license matches me as far as my daily appearance goes. I don't know that I will see hrt and the beginnings of transition in my 20's with the amount of debt I am in (6k, no job). But what I do know is that when I do, I will never leave behind the labels. Why? Well that question begs another question. Where would we be if figures like Chaz Bono didn't transition openly and get our issues out there in the open? I am never going to be under the illusion that I am a complete woman. What am I missing after transition? Well, ovaries, a uterus, a cervix, a face that needed no plastic surgery to appear female without makeup, boobs that aren't pumped to the brim with silicone, and the list goes on. Now I am not saying that I will walk around saying "Hi my name is Teagan, you can call me Tuli for short, by the way I'm TS!" But I will not let any amount of paper signed and notarized fool me into thinking that I am complete. Yes that day will be a great affirmation, but those papers will never allow me to bear a child, or give me memories of growing up female. And you know what that is fine with me. We need women out front to stand up and say, "You know what? I wasn't born into womanhood. I f*ing earned it!" Going stealth is a little picture idea, synonymous with a "my life, my future." attitude. I am a big picture girl, "Our lives, our future." I cannot fault others for wanting to go stealth I am simply saying that if we are to ever be completely part of social norms, and not looked at as an oddity, we need people to say "yep, I am TS."

[Inna]

It is especially interesting that this question had been presented to me twice within couple days in different language and from another end of the world on different forum.

We had a long discussion and finally after some heated exchanges, I had gained a new understanding of SELF IDENTITY.

So in a nut shell, age, circumstances and guilt associated with feeling inadequate compromise strong feeling of Self Identity as to brain gender. So for instance I have gone through life trying to stifle and bury my fem self, of course without much success thank god, but for almost 40 years such feeling gave me confusing basis for one sided and strong Identity hence I became rather confused about my gender, my role in the society, my place in the world.

For someone like me our life long struggle is part of the living process, Transwoman describes such condition of traveling through life to finally achieve womanhood but without forgetting my past which honestly was natures cruel joke, but nevertheless, real and painful. As I have learned from psychology, wounds can be aether fresh or healed but they can never be forgotten, trying to forget about your past is simply impossible and a prescription for impending disaster.
So if I lived as a man, tried to fit as a man, tried to love as a man even though non of these traits were truly mine, they were an experience of life which have become part of me weather I like it or not.

For someone 4 years old whose parents recognize and allow self expression at that age, he or she can live the life knowing true self even though biologically being trans, their self identity remains intact as a whole. Those are the ones who can simply say I am a woman or a man without having any secrets to hide or run away from.

I personally embrace the term Transsexual woman, I am proud of the road I had to travel, proud of the struggle and tears which accompanied my life, proud of being not just another man or another woman but someone with TWO SPIRITS someone who sees the world in all the aspects of the wonders and colors of the rainbow ;)

[MJ]

I personally embrace the term Transsexual woman, I am proud of the road I had to travel, proud of the struggle and tears which accompanied my life, proud of being not just another man or another woman but someone with TWO SPIRITS someone who sees the world in all the aspects of the wonders and colors of the rainbow ;)

AMEN sister

sadly for me i can't pass for a woman. so labels save my ass i guess just a post op t-girl

[Kaitlyn Michele]

It's always good to rattle the bushes and ruffle some feathers! It results in soul searching and discovery. And if you want to be transgendered that's fine.

hmmm...

you raised a strawman question..which i answered honestly, but in my day to day life..the word has not come up in a long time...
as a woman that has transitioned, had srs, and lives day to day..it never comes up... but if it did, i'd simply say i was transsexual ...who cares??

i agree ruffling a few feathers is cool...how's this??

hopefully you will get to the point where you realize insisting someone uses a certain word doesnt make you or them any more or less of a woman...or a transsexual...
post srs, things like this don't matter as much anymore, except on forums..

[Badtranny]

Inna,

I would say exactly what you said, but I couldn't say it any better!

[Kathryn Martin]

I was born a transsexual and in about seven months I will no longer be transsexual. I prefer to be Kathryn, wonderful human being (:o), and if you cannot figure out what gender I am then maybe you have to go check in with your shrink and have your head examined.:brolleyes:

[Melody Moore]

I too always identify to everyone else in public or whatever a woman, but I only use these
terms in the TS/TG community like on this forum or in my support groups or networks.

[Inna]

Kathryn, you have made an interesting comment and once again I love interacting here and other sites to build my knowledge and extend my interpretation of reality.

Woman, I looked up the term once again in the pedias and such refers to simply a description of human with female sexual characteristic. Term Woman seems then to be an objective interpretation of physicality of female, where feminine centers more on sensual and emotional content.

This got me thinking..........................

What does transsexual refer to??????? Does it refer to physicality or gender identity or both at the same time?

All of us, who have or will undergo full SRS and other aspects of gaining physical attributes are heading for the same pinnacle of equilibrium, combining body and mind into a cohesive one self, and in our case, being an unmistakable woman.
However, I my self, have tried to toss out the dark memory of living as a man but did not succeed and the resulting unified self is part old part new reality. My highly educated PHD professor of psychology gender studies, therapist confirmed such duality is part of the process and resulting marriage is rather inevitable.

Are we or some of us simply afraid of the term, which quite frankly carries stigma of impure and sick, though getting much more understanding lately?????????????????????????

[Melody Moore]

I see all points of view here and while I always identify as a woman, I am not ashamed of where I came
from either if that question was to ever come up. For me gender transition is about realigning my body
to a point where I can feel happy & comfortable and accept myself. I came from a life of denial & being
in total stealth about who I am. So if I was to keep doing this then nothing has really changed. So I also
feel those that are in total stealth are in still in denial and personally I cannot deal with that. Honesty is
very important to me, so if I was to still be in denial about why I really am then I would feel so guilty for
acting like a total hypocrite.

[Jorja]

I too am by no means ashamed of where I came from and how I got to where I am. For me, the word transsexual simply does not enter my daily life except here in this fourm. I present and live as a woman. Those that know me and see me day to day or are meeting me for the first time only see a woman. It was never about going stealth once all the modifications were complete. That is something that just happens as you live and enjoy life as the person you truely are.

[Michelle.M]

So my question is at what point do you stop calling yourself "Trans" and only want to be referred to as a woman in MTF cases?

That point comes when the term Trans no longer is valid in one's life.

[kellycan27]

For those who have completed their transition and/or who are living 24/7 in their correct gender, and who have changed all their legal documents to "F" or "M," why would you STILL use the "Trans" words to define yourself or for others to define you?

Whether you are mtf or ftm, wouldn't you at that point want to be called a woman or man as appropriate and think of yourself as such (I know I do)?

I am simply a woman and as such what TS issues would I have to deal with legally, socially, etc. when everyone else thinks of me as a woman and I can prove it?

What am I MISSING????

Why do we allow the "words" to follow us throughout life?????

I am a woman, who happens to be a transsexual. It's not something that I advertise, nor do I introcuce myself as Kelly ****** TS, but it's not anything that I am ashamed of either. TBPO I don't know many out and about TS girls who openly profess their status, and it seems a little funny to me that this question would pop up on a site such as this. Traci, I think it's pretty much a given that most of us don't walk around with signs around our necks, nor do we use the labels anywhere but places such as this. We can try and distance ourselfs from what we are, but the fact remains that we are in fact transsexuals. No amount of whoopin and hollering is going to change that, but if it makes you feel more comfortable denying it.... it's a free country.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Wait a Dog Gone minute. Where have I said anything about being ashamed of once being a man or in denial that I "was" transsexual.

Of course I agree that I had a past life as a man, and I had a past life as a trans-woman. I also have a past life of 10,000 other things but I do not live in the past. I move forward and onward.

So again you are missing my question...When is it that YOU saw yourself as a "woman" and not a trans-woman or other such title?

If you still see yourself as a trans then that's fine. It's certainly not a crime to be one. But as for myself, I have moved forward mentally, emotionally, and physically as a woman no longer live in those past lives.

Again there is no denial or shame from whence I came. Today I am a woman and in my mind I would think that all of us would want to get to that point. But maybe I am wrong. And from the responses of some of you, I am dead wrong as it relates to you and that's fine too.

[Inna]

Traci, you have inspired, through this thread, my inquisitiveness into the realm of self identity and what it is to be this or to be that. On one hand we are a conglomerate of what we see in the mirrors reflection, what we feel inside (often intertwined with mirrors reflection) and what others see us as. Do we really exist as a separate being exclusive of all those realities or are we a conglomerate of all????????

Once again this is getting my creative juices flowing, Thanks :)

[Melody Moore]

When is it that YOU saw yourself as a "woman" and not a trans-woman or other such title?
The answer to that question is very simple....

From the very day I decided to start my transition and stepped outside into the real world as a woman.

[Starling]

...My mother fought cancer for 18 years, pratically half her life...

You must miss your mother terribly, Frances. And she must have endured great suffering. I hope you were able to be a daughter to her. My mother passed away before I could hope to know myself as well as she knew me. (I was especially dense.)

:) Lallie

[Traci Elizabeth]

Traci, you have inspired, through this thread, my inquisitiveness into the realm of self identity and what it is to be this or to be that. On one hand we are a conglomerate of what we see in the mirrors reflection, what we feel inside (often intertwined with mirrors reflection) and what others see us as. Do we really exist as a separate being exclusive of all those realities or are we a conglomerate of all????????

Once again this is getting my creative juices flowing, Thanks :)

You bring up a good point but everything we are or have been since day one & maybe even before is safely filed away in our memory banks. Some of those banks have locks on them that your brain keeps safe from re-living those things we don't want to remember. Nevertheless, who we are indeed is a compilation of our life but most of that is not in our active conciseness.

So when I look in the mirror, I am living in the NOW and I only see a woman. When I dream, and plan it is for my future as a woman. My past is in my subconscious as memories. Nothing more.

[kellycan27]

You bring up a good point but everything we are or have been since day one & maybe even before is safely filed away in our memory banks. Some of those banks have locks on them that your brain keeps safe from re-living those things we don't want to remember. Nevertheless, who we are indeed is a compilation of our life but most of that is not in our active conciseness.

So when I look in the mirror, I am living in the NOW and I only see a woman. When I dream, and plan it is for my future as a woman. My past is in my subconscious as memories. Nothing more.

My point was that I thought that the question was just a tad bit silly. How many of us wake up in the morning, look in in the mirror and say.. I am a transsexual, gay,cross dresser or what have you? Don't you feel a bit like you are preaching to the choir when you ask such a question in like that in here? We use labels in here to convey to other members who may or not be on the same journey as we, or in order that we may communicate with those who are. I don't walk around with a menu board, nor do I think about it anymore than you do, and I think most of us who have been out there living it for for a while act the same way. I understand what you are saying, but i think you are taking it way out of context... in that you are applying something here (labels) it to our every day lives.....and I have not seen one person who has successfully transitioned reply that they in fact can't get past the idea that they are trans. I find it equally silly to say that someone who uses labels, doesn't really want to be a woman as well as saying.. You can be transgendered if you want. Maybe you feel that you are more enlightened than some of the rest of us, but I am going to tell you that a lot of us have already been there and have that t-shirt. We managed to get past the Woot Woot! I am woman stage, live pretty normal lives and don't see any point or value into making a mountain out of a mole hill, or an issue where there really is none.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

You bring up a good point but everything we are or have been since day one & maybe even before is safely filed away in our memory banks. Some of those banks have locks on them that your brain keeps safe from re-living those things we don't want to remember. Nevertheless, who we are indeed is a compilation of our life but most of that is not in our active conciseness.

So when I look in the mirror, I am living in the NOW and I only see a woman. When I dream, and plan it is for my future as a woman. My past is in my subconscious as memories. Nothing more.

Remember Happy Days...AAAAAAA!!!
Richie asked Fonzie if he was cool, and the Fonz told him that if you are really cool...you don't have to say it..

To your question in the op.. that's what you are missing..

[Traci Elizabeth]

My point was that I thought that the question was just a tad bit silly.

Oh my lord, did I strike a cord or what?

This is my last response with a real example here where I live in SC. I personally know two trans-women who are living 24/7 in their correct gender that I met at the first church I attended here. These women still hang on to their trans identity and are active in the PRIDE organization and other LGBT activities. I have never once heard them speak of themselves or refer to themselves as women but always trans. Even other church members know they are "trans." They take pride in being trans-women and that is fine.

My whole purpose for the post was simply to ask at what point did you stop feeling Trans? But I guess my question is viewed as lame and/or meaningless --- and that's OK too. So I am signing off on this thread.

[kellycan27]

Oh my lord, did I strike a cord or what?

This is my last response with a real example here where I live in SC. I personally know two trans-women who are living 24/7 in their correct gender that I met at the first church I attended here. These women still hang on to their trans identity and are active in the PRIDE organization and other LGBT activities. I have never once heard them speak of themselves or refer to themselves as women but always trans. Even other church members know they are "trans." They take pride in being trans-women and that is fine.

My whole purpose for the post was simply to ask at what point did you stop feeling Trans? But I guess my question is viewed as lame and/or meaningless --- and that's OK too. So I am signing off on this thread.

Perhaps had you asked the question as you state it here, and not opined on on what you do with the insinuation that you knew better. ( label users not wanting to be real women) you would have gotten a a different response. You say it's not a part of you, but here you are hanging out with a bunch of transgendered people.. I found it interesting that you said.. you're a woman and can prove it. I am a woman also, but i don't feel that I need to prove it, and I am comfortable enough with being a woman that some non-sense label is going to bother me or make me feel less.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Bye.. Not that this will register with you, but your answers to the responses belie your actual intent. Feel free to reinvent, but it's all right there. think about the answers if you were really just asking a question...

Seriously, do you think a genetic male or woman wakes up and looks in the mirror and says I'm a man or woman"?

The end game is for it not to matter anymore... not to have a new word "woman" ...replace the old word "transsexual".
I hope you can truly understand that someday because it's a wonderful thing..

[Stephenie S]

why would you STILL use the "Trans" words to define yourself or for others to define you? Why do we allow the "words" to follow us throughout life?????

Mercy me! I don't use those words and I hope you don't either.

Stephenie

[Starling]

I love words and what you can do with them, but it seems to me that words are getting in the way of communication here. Face to face, you all would get along famously, but this thread has turned into a redneck bar at closing time.

You all are so much further along than I am. I respect you all so much, and I want you to be friends!

:) Lallie

[noeleena]

Hi,

Time for the spanner in the works , im not trans any thing. because im both male / female . that can not change, in the begining so people some 15 years ago could understand a simple explainstion i used transfemale tho that was dropped & i said well im just both , one of those who is mixed .

Tho my friends know me well enough to just accept im a woman & allways have been & some of my friends go back 54 years, & even then they have just accepted . who i am . not wether im male or female they really dont care, because im just the same in most respect's tho they know we change over the years as we get older, & even my new friends over 15 years dont care wether i do my building work or dressed in our times past clothes, my clothes dont decide who i am , people have accepted & know im just noeleena.. go & get her. or she can do this job or what ever, & really i dont conform to ether male or female in the sence of am i one or the other,

& in many ways it has been an advange for my self in being different,

...noeleena...

[Frances]

The answer to that question is very simple....

From the very day I decided to start my transition and stepped outside into the real world as a woman.

I agree totally with Melody. I suspect people clinging to the T labels have not integrated fully into society. Why claim a label for yourself if no one echoes it back. In other words, if your gender expression communicates "woman" and people communicates back "woman" at you, why would you go: "not woman, but transsexual."


My point was that I thought that the question was just a tad bit silly. How many of us wake up in the morning, look in in the mirror and say.. I am a transsexual, gay,cross dresser or what have you? if you want. Maybe you feel that you are more enlightened than some of the rest of us, but I am going to tell you that a lot of us have already been there and have that t-shirt. We managed to get past the Woot Woot! I am woman stage, live pretty normal lives and don't see any point or value into making a mountain out of a mole hill, or an issue where there really is none.

I don't know about that. A whole lot of people on this site claim the label with pride and believe it will remain glued on forever. Very few people who completed their transition hold on to the label. Most early transitioners, however, claim the label with pride. They may get rid or it sooner or later, or not.


You must miss your mother terribly, Frances. And she must have endured great suffering. I hope you were able to be a daughter to her. My mother passed away before I could hope to know myself as well as she knew me. (I was especially dense.)

She has been gone for 20 years, but I miss her incredibly so. She was the only person who did not have any expectations as far as my gender (or gender expression) was concerned.

[Badtranny]

I don't know about that. A whole lot of people on this site claim the label with pride and believe it will remain glued on forever. Very few people who completed their transition hold on to the label. Most early transitioners, however, claim the label with pride. They may get rid or it sooner or later, or not.

You people are arguing with somebody who is a wife and mother and career gal about being a woman? This really is silly.

Let me give you a much better target; my plan is to become stealth "looking" but never to lie about or distance myself from who I really am. I am and will be a proud transsexual woman. I feel like it's something I need to do because I feel so fortunate to have the physical gifts that would allow me to deny my history if I chose to. I am standing proud for the T-boys and girls who are not so fortunate, and who don't yet have the strength to stand for themselves.

[Frances]

You people are arguing with somebody who is a wife and mother and career gal about being a woman? This really is silly.

Arguing? I thought I was agreeing with and defending Traci. Who is you and who is somebody?

[Zenith]

One of the best adjusted, long time post-op, totally passable, stealth, integrated friends I have IRL put it this way..."I'm a woman, but a special kind of woman." That's it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

frances to me the discussion is between an op that posed a tired old strawman question..

framing it in a way that when responses came back made it seem like people that have NO PROBLEM with the word, EMBRACE the word...its just a word..

words don't define anybody..
i expressed indifference , and was told to go be transgendered.. one word for that...lame
melissa expresses her celebration of her special qualities, and you describe this as "clinging" (indirectly)....ouch

this thread makes it seem like people that are ok with a realistic and pragmatic view of their lives are somehow the ones that don't get it...i'd say its the opposite

[Frances]

Melissa expresses her celebration of her special qualities, and you describe this as "clinging" (indirectly)....ouch
This thread makes it seem like people that are ok with a realistic and pragmatic view of their lives are somehow the ones that don't get it...i'd say its the opposite

I did not mention anyone, and was more thinking about the large community of trans people I know in Montreal. I was also thinking of my own experience. I felt so ashamed of being trans throughout my life that when I finally embraced it, I wanted everyone to know about it. I bought over a hundred books, many DVD's, and even had a flag of my local trans association (still have a key chain bearing those colors). The label defined me and my experience. I went to bed a trans woman and woke up a trans woman. Now, I am a woman who was born trans... for those who need to know. For the rest I am a woman. I don't think anyone needs to reject the label, but most don't feel a need for it eventually.

I still go to support groups and sometimes lead them (like tonight's). At those groups, I am a trans post-op French Canadian guitar playing professional translator dirty-blond haired bisexual woman. Elsewhere, I may be any combination of those labels. I am pragmatic.

[kellycan27]

Oh my lord, did I strike a cord or what?

This is my last response with a real example here where I live in SC. I personally know two trans-women who are living 24/7 in their correct gender that I met at the first church I attended here. These women still hang on to their trans identity and are active in the PRIDE organization and other LGBT activities. I have never once heard them speak of themselves or refer to themselves as women but always trans. Even other church members know they are "trans." They take pride in being trans-women and that is fine.

My whole purpose for the post was simply to ask at what point did you stop feeling Trans? But I guess my question is viewed as lame and/or meaningless --- and that's OK too. So I am signing off on this thread.

Your example uses people who seem to advocate types.. it would be a pretty piss poor advocate who would want to distance themselves from the labels don't you think. These are people who freely "choose" to hang on to the labels as it suits their purpose.

[Aprilrain]

Let me give you a much better target;

and what a pretty target you make doll!

[Hope]

So my question is at what point do you stop calling yourself "Trans" and only want to be referred to as a woman in MTF cases?

It makes no sense to me that if you want to be taken seriously as a woman, then why would you want to be referred to or profess yourself as a "Trans-woman?"

Personally, the only time I refer to myself as "trans-anything" is on this forum, or with other sisters, or in some situation where I am out, and making reference to transition or something trans related. So I only use the term in relationship to trans-ness. Otherwise, I, and I expect those around me, to refer to me as a woman like any other.

But I understand the distinction and made it myself earlier on. I think initially there is safety in being identified as trans. When you are first out, there is no way you are going to be read as a woman, and defaulting back to "tranny mode" is safe. You can be serious for as long as you want to, but if you get spooked, or challenged, or whatever, you can back down and be the crazy tranny, or you can laugh off being the dude in the dress.

But you make a good point. At some point we do all need to stop backing down, and instead double down when confronted, and demand our own identity. But each of us does that at our own rate, and in our own time. And there is nothing wrong with that either.

[Inna]

So I am going to butt in once again...and probably get a boot for doing so ( I call Safety!)

The original question being "at what point do you stop calling yourself "Trans" and only want to be referred to as a woman" refers to personal interpretation of stage of life and self identity. Thinking however about this, I find that such interpretation of self is always dependent on outside influence and then mixed into cohesive cocktail with internal identity.

I think perhaps, the moment a person stops receiving The Look and inquisitive response from onlooking crowd, such person starts to feel a finality of transition ( as we all know it it never stops) at least in the acceptance department. If responses come bombarding at you reinforcing your womanhood, then tendency to feel accepted as a woman should be and probably is near 100%.

However though, feeling accepted as a woman does not guarantee feeling woman in entirety. Here is where the past-present come in with its intertwined mosaic of inevitable memory of male body and life assimilated as such and woman's mind constantly reminding of incongruity of both.

I am sure anyone can call them selves Woman or Man or an Apple, but underlying current of past events which shapes our lives and reminds of where we come from, shall for ever remain part of self.

[JennyA]

I love being transsexual. Everyone is looking at it like their was a male part of me and then after a certain amount of procedures I am female. Being "trans" to me does not mean being being in transition, but to Transcend gender boundaries. We are more then just male or female. We have been gifted, not cursed, with this chance to see both sides of life. "Two Spirits" indeed. I will always consider myself a transsexual woman, the most powerful being in the universe.