Is the Light TOO Bright, or am I Just Losing It? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

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Anne2345

10-06-2011, 10:13 AM

Without exception, we all travel down one path or another. Some choose to tread down a specific, meticulously planned out path, while others may be forced down a path dictated by the whims of circumstances beyond control. Some travellers are painfully aware of the path they tread upon, whereas others may be blissfully ignorant that they are even on a path. But make no mistake about it. We all travel paths down the larger, grander, all-encompassing road of Life, and the greater scheme it presents, whatever that may be . . . .

In this, although our respective paths are numerous, varied, and personally distinct, the paths of the MtF crossdressing community share certain, similar qualities and characteristics, despite the differences that may otherwise be found therein. The most important characteristic we share, however, is also the simplest characteristic. We enjoy encompassing ourselves within the joyous and satisfying comfort of feminine attire. If nothing else, we share within this blessed, magical gift of beauty and good fortune, and we discuss it among ourselves consistently.

Depending on one's age, maturity, life experiences, and a variety of other factors, however, some have travelled farther down their respective paths than others. Some, in fact, have travelled a great distance, whereas others have only recently begun their journey. Still others yet have changed paths, if not once, but several times, and begun anew.

Until recently, I thought I really knew the path upon which I currently travel, and I thought I knew it well. It is a path I have known and walked now for many years and moons. It is a path I was quite fortunate to find, as I desperately sought refuge and escape from a dark, cold, hopeless and desolate path I previously travelled during my younger days. Because my current path offered me safety, solace, and sanctuary so long ago, it is a path I have loved, honored, and cherished all of these years. This path saved my life. I was reborn on this path. I owe much to this path.

As such, I have been loyal to my path, and the journey I believed myself to be on. In return, my path has provided me with safety and comfort, and sheltered me from fear.

Having travelled this path for so long now, I smugly thought I had it all figured out. Of course, the manifestation of the arrogance of certainty, and foolishly rebuffing the potential influence of chaos and the unknown, invariably catches the attention of Life. Life, ever the whimsical jester, seemingly finds the concept of human certainty repugnant, and mockingly disapproves.

Without fail, in the face of such unwarranted self-assuredness, of course, is when Life customarily intervenes and shakes its immortal and empyrean finger in reproach and admonishment, and proclaims with absolute and irrefutable authority - "Oh No You Don't! You Do NOT Have This Figured Out!"

Which, incidentally, if you were wondering in what direction I am taking this already overly long piece, and just how much longer it will take me to actually get there, we have finally arrived at our destination. Please watch your step exiting the bus . . . .

So I thought I had it all figured out. How funny is that? I mean, what the hell was I thinking? Even I have to laugh at myself for allowing myself to have such pretentiously asinine thoughts . . . . But as I sit here typing, humbled by the sovereign power and unpredictable nature of Life, and the reprimand bestowed upon me for having taken Life for granted, I am left to wonder how exactly did I lose myself, for lost I apparently am, when I did not even recognize I was lost to begin with?

In hindsight, it is all quite obvious. Until recently, I completely failed to recognize that the path I have now travelled for so long no longer offered me excitement, satisfaction, adventure, and most importantly, the prospect of future evolution. Instead, safety long ago mutated into complacency, comfort into stagnation, and self-awareness into apparent self-denial. And I was completely blind and oblivious to it all.

Now that my eyes have once again re-opened to that which is within me, I have a desperate need and desire to understand better what I am viewing. Although my motives are pure, and my efforts genuine, I am currently confronted by the unknown, as my path has taken a serious turn, and become enshrouded by the unexpected. In this regard, I believe that I may be in the midst of a major Awakening.

Regardless, at the very least, I am quite undeniably confused by my emotions and thoughts, and I am obsessed with cultivating my passion of and need for what I perceive to be femininity. At times my thoughts are crippling, and completely consume my attention to the detriment of other obligations I must attend to and meet. Every single day I think about this, and my longing for femininity. As much of a gift as I believe this to be, it is becoming too much, and too overwhelming. I simply cannot get the thoughts out of my mind . . . .

Given this, the more I learn about myself, the more I become aware of who I really am. The more I attempt to accept myself based upon this new awareness, the more open with myself I am able to be. The more open with myself I become, and the more honest about my desires I am, the brighter the light that illuminates the new path I now understand is before me, if I but simply choose to travel it.

I thought I was but a mere, simple, happy-go-lucky crossdresser that appreciated deeply her gift. I still believe with all of my being that it is indeed a blessed gift. But now when I enter my femme world, I do so with the intent of seeking out femininity to the complete exclusion of masculinity. I desire to strip away the trappings, limitations, and taint of masculinity in its entirety, to the best of my abilities. My femme self finds masculinity abhorrent, and declares it to be an abomination. While en femme, I believe it is my desire to actually be a woman. This is my current crossdressing modus operandi. And it scares and confuses me . . . .

I am fully cognizant that not all here feel as I do. More and more, though, my femme self appears to be spilling over and into my drab life. It is taking root in a manner I thought impossible not so very long ago. And yet, it is there, taunting me, teasing me, whispering to me, seducing me . . . .

Although I have trepidations about the direction of this path, when I am able to brush away my fears and attempt to see it for what it is, the path does offer the promise of much beauty. In this, I desire to embrace femininity within its entirety. However, I have little or no faith in the outsiders and naysayers to comprehend this truth I believe I see so clearly, despite the malaise of confusion swirling within my mind. As such, if I allow myself to travel this new path, what shall become of me? My community will never accept me for who I may be, this much I am sure of.

I wish to give my inner self, and the essence of my being, a full, fruitful, and bountiful life, but the light illuminating the potential new path before me has become too bright. Ironically, my vision is now hampered for a very different reason – fear of the unknown, what may be, and what I may want.

Many of you have “progressed” or “evolved” well beyond where I currently find myself. Thus, you have been there, done that. Was the light too bright in your world at one time? Is it too bright now? Obviously, we can choose to fully embrace ourselves, and seek to discover all that is within. But at what cost? At what sacrifice? Clearly, in all aspects of Life, it is wise to seek balance among competing or divergent interests. But how does one achieve balance in the face of the unknown? I certainly know how to balance a checkbook, but how does one balance gender?

Cynthia Anne

10-06-2011, 10:47 AM

Very interesting and and well said ANNE! I agree with the 'path'! But my path has always been filled with sharp curves and detours! Even some wrong way signs! Makes me wonder if I took the right path! Or was it even a choice! Lately I have been straightening some of the curves and hopeing I don't run into a deadend! I do know that for now it's full spead straight ahead! Love your thread! Hugs!

Kathi Lake

10-06-2011, 11:08 AM

Amanda22

10-06-2011, 12:07 PM

Anne, great post and it hits close to home with me. I know the simultaneous feelings of excitement and fear. I'm saying this to myself as much or more than I am to you. When we suppress who we really are for years or decades, then suddenly begin to see the light, it's so enticing! I began a new life a year ago when I finally accepted my femininity and began to live authentically as the being I truly am. I'm similar to Kathi Lake. I'm just me and I am the same "me" regardless of my clothing. Some days, I go "all girl" and other days I just get lazy and do the "boy thing." Other days, it's an odd mixture I like that flexibility and my wife and others are very cool with it (even encourage it).

I told my therapist that if I was involved in an auto accident and the only way my life would be saved would be to surgically, chemically, and by any other method turn me into a full-fledged woman, I'd be thrilled. That is, I think I'd be thrilled. But I am actually more than thrilled with life RIGHT NOW. I love my wife more than anything and she likes me just the way the "new me" is, part boy, part girl. It's perfect. If I think about what life would be like without male body parts and I wouldn't miss those parts at all. But I can definitely accept this was the body I was born with.

I was discussing this Sunday night with my wife. I've achieved a place in life that was only a fantastic dream a very short time ago. I'm so grateful for living this life the way I am. There's more to life than crossdressing, of course. I think a great life is one in which I can honor my femininity while also honoring my wife and friends. It's balance, I guess. I do struggle to keep grasp of objectivity from time to time. I've been wise enough to be suspicious of high emotions when I've had them. I don't think it's ever a bad idea to take things slowly.

Debglam

10-06-2011, 12:45 PM

Hey Anne,

Yet another terrific thread from you! It has been my experience that there are a lot of us, maybe most of us "middle pathers" that are in the same boat. I think about these things everyday! I know that it is more than the clothes for me. I knew that when I was six years old but how much more? The one thing that I cannot say with 100% certainty is how far is this path going to lead? I have a pretty good idea but. . . It seems more like a stroll through the woods than a well-groomed path most of the time.

As we discussed regarding my recent posts, I felt myself being pulled off of the "razor's edge" as Kathi so aptly put it by the series of very positive experiences I've had recently. Middle path is synonymous with balance. For me, maintaining that balance is a matter of being completely realistic about my gender. IF I had my gender awakening when I was 18, single, and free to do whatever I wanted with my life, I well may have transitioned. Well that didn't happen and you cannot live in the past! IF, as Amanda suggested, there was a situation that forced the matter or a "magic pill" that would turn me into Sophia Vergara or any other beautiful woman with no repercussions and no fallout, I would do it in a minute. Again, that isn't reality.

The reality is I am a very happily married man with a family that I adore. My life is not perfect but it is damn good. I am, ahem :battingeyelashes:, near middle aged and all the surgery in the world is not going to make me into Sophia Vergara! I am so happy that I am now able to express my feminine side, the woman within me, whatever you want to call it even part time that I am ecstatic at times! Sometimes too joyful as I mentioned previously and that starts to (pink) fog the reality of what I have and what I would lose. It fogs the reality of how exteriorly "womanly" I could ever be. Bottom line is that keeping balance is enjoying to the fullest who we are without shame or guilt while at the same time being realistic about who we are and where we are. One eye in the light and one eye in the darkness to use your analogy. It is not always easy but so far it is doable and has made my life much better than it was before. I hope that the same is true for all of you too!

:hugs:
Debby

VeronicaMoonlit

10-06-2011, 12:49 PM

As such, I have been loyal to my path, and the journey I believed myself to be on. In return, my path has provided me with safety and comfort, and sheltered me from fear.

Of course, the manifestation of the arrogance of certainty, and foolishly rebuffing the potential influence of chaos and the unknown, invariably catches the attention of Life.

So I thought I had it all figured out. How funny is that? I mean, what the hell was I thinking? Even I have to laugh at myself for allowing myself to have such pretentiously asinine thoughts . . . . I am left to wonder how exactly did I lose myself, for lost I apparently am, when I did not even recognize I was lost to begin with?

In hindsight, it is all quite obvious. Until recently, I completely failed to recognize that the path I have now travelled for so long no longer offered me excitement, satisfaction, adventure, and most importantly, the prospect of future evolution. Instead, safety long ago mutated into complacency, comfort into stagnation, and self-awareness into apparent self-denial. And I was completely blind and oblivious to it all.

While I am happy to see this wordy and flowery post. a simple "I was clueless, forgive me." would have sufficed to summarize most of it..... I am also....annoyed. Yes, yes I am.

Not that long ago, in June and August, I warned you about this.....and was castigated for doing so by yourself and others. I told you and others that my long experience with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" told me that deep down you really didn't love that closet you claimed to love so much and that eventually you would have to admit that.

And here you are.....I told you so. I'll say that again: I told you so.

But....

Regardless, at the very least, I am quite undeniably confused by my emotions and thoughts,

"This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" can be that way, expect it. and trust that you will find that "experimentation changes you."

Every single day I think about this, and my longing for femininity. As much of a gift as I believe this to be, it is becoming too much, and too overwhelming. I simply cannot get the thoughts out of my mind . . . .

Yes that's how it is for some. I sometimes call it a "background process" or "systems daemon" or "system service" that is constantly running in the background. Sometimes it has a lower priority, sometimes it doesn't. I have worked hard to try to keep it at a certain level so I can muddle my way through life without crying every day. Counseling helped. Admitting to certain things and "using the words" rather than beathing around the bush also helped. Even just having my hormone letter helped.

The more open with myself I become, and the more honest about my desires I am, the brighter the light that illuminates the new path I now understand is before me, if I but simply choose to travel it.

Did I not tell you that being honest with oneself is important? :-)

I thought I was but a mere, simple, happy-go-lucky crossdresser that appreciated deeply her gift. And it scares and confuses me . . . .

Ha ha, that's what I thought I was too...but I figured it out...eventually. I never considered "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" a "gift". but just something to be dealt with. Something that I needed to figure out for myself how I really felt about IT and what to do about IT. And I was scared...still am! It's okay to be scared, really it is, as long as you recognize the fear and learn to deal with it.

More and more, though, my femme self appears to be spilling over and into my drab life.

Yes yes it does. Started what I call the mini-body-mods yet? Growing your hair out, brow tweezing, buying glasses from the women's section, trying to buy as much as possible in the women's section?

And yet, it is there, taunting me, teasing me, whispering to me, seducing me . . . .

I don't think you should think of "IT" in that way. It's not seducing you...you're making the ultimate decisions whether you want to admit it or not. It is ultimately your choice in how you deal with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds"

As such, if I allow myself to travel this new path, what shall become of me?

That is ultimately your decision

My community will never accept me for who I may be, this much I am sure of.

Well are you absolutely sure of that? Remember how sure you were of the other things? Besides...you can always find a new community.

Ironically, my vision is now hampered for a very different reason – fear of the unknown, what may be, and what I may want.

Well start talking honestly and plainly with yourself...and USE THE WORDS! Don't hide behind flowery statements, just say it....it'll help...trust me. Then think, read, learn, and experiment....you'll figure it out.

Do we stare at that light, that beautiful glow of femininity so much that we become blind to all else around us? Do we see all of life in that afterimage glow that staring into a bright light can give us? Are we blind to what we are really doing to others? To ourselves? To use another analogy, think of what happens to a bug when it gets too close to that beautiful, magnetic light. :)

I'm going to quote Zelda Rubenstein's character in Poltergeist here, just for fun: Go to the light!

I am what Sara Jessica refers to as a "middle-pather."

The term originated on mHB actually. :-) Several people there use it. And there are a few who used it in the past who made the trips to Thailand or Trinidad Colorado.

Would I like more? Certainly!! It would be sooo easy to just let go and ride this slip n' slide to its natural conclusion. It would be so easy to fully bathe in the fountain of femininity. But (a big but, . . . and now I have visions of Pee Wee Herman running through my head :)) I have other obligations. I have a wife. I have a family. I have a church full of people that I love and serve. To go down this route would cause me to lose much of that.

Time for cheerleading! It is my hope that you will find a way to be the "woman who has it all". There, I said it. And are you sure you would lose out. (I know, you want to minimize risks, I understand that.)

Some think of 'obligations' as a dirty word. I see the word as a blessing. I am fully content to put my desires on the back burner for the sake of those that I love. Some would even call this attitude of sacrifice a very feminine one. :)

I would think of them as challenges to deal with, to figure out how to minimize the negative impact, if any.

I am content with my simmering back-burner femininity.

Back burner? Girl, it's not on the back burner. You've worn makeup in guy mode around the PWRM's (Pilot Wife Room Moms) and the GGP (Gorgeous Gossip Patrol) I think as well! You've worn skinny jeans in guy mode! That's not back burner...that's slippery sloping androgyny trying to slippery slope into femme!

Veronica

kimdl93

10-06-2011, 12:53 PM

Anne, if I am interpreting things correctly, your path divereged from a comfortably closeted existence towards one where you feel the need to express your feminine side much more fully, more often and more openly, and perhaps moving headlong down the path towards something approaching living full time as a woman. Thats entirely appropriate and good. There's no inherent conflict or confusion in that.

The confusion and uncertainty, it seems, derive from your concerns about the risks might you take , personally and professionally, for being more true to yourself. Again, those are entirely legitimate concerns.

So much of life demands us to compromise, and as Kathi and Amanda have observed, one can acheive a comfortable level of balance. Balance, however, does not mean a static system. Its like acheiving a precarious balance while riding on a train. If the train accelerates, or we encounter a change in the slope of the rail grade or enter a curve and we have to adjust accordingly. There can be balance and movement simultaneously.

The best we can do is to say, this is my balance at the moment. Today, given the realities of my life, I can be <N>. As I look ahead, I may want to work towards 2N or whatever. But today, I this is the best I can do for now, and I'm grateful to have progressed this far. There may be some yearnings, some frustrations, and to some extent, continued confusion. Well, I'm afraid that is life.

So to deal with the confusion, first, try to enjoy today, embracing your femininity to extent that you can. Second, carefully observe and assess the obstacles in your path. Third, where there are obstacles there are also opportunities - identify them or create them anew. Fourth, consider your options - how can you overcome these obstacles and exploit the opportunites, and finally, set out again on your path with a flexible plan towards your dreams. And be prepared to be surprised along the way.

larry

10-06-2011, 12:56 PM

Whew--Sure hope you do not have to think that deep at an intersection in your car. hehe

Kaitlyn Michele

10-06-2011, 01:21 PM

Talk is cheap...
I mean it with tough love... you write way too much and say way too little about what is really going on....you are all over the place because you are struggling...

I'm sure it feels good to do it.. i hope it has helped you in some way... but its evident its not helping you in a REAL AND MEANINGFUL way..

Many of us have faced the wall starting at us... What you do about it is going to go a long way in defining your quality of life.. you need to hear this.. or you are just gonna keep talking to the wall..

Torrey

10-06-2011, 01:37 PM

Okay, my last long post poofed...so you just get the lyrics from a Mac Davis song until I get the chance to start over...

"If our lives could lie before us like a straight and narrow highway
so that we could see forever, long before we took the ride,
we would never look to heaven, make a wish or climb a mountain,
'cause we'd always know the answer what's on the other side.
But life ain't no easy freeway, just some gravel on the ground.
You pay for every mile you go to spread some dust around.
But we all have destinations, and the dust will settle down,
this life ain't no easy freeway, just some gravel on the ground."

Pack for a road trip, sugah! :)

Hugs,
Torrey

Torrey

10-06-2011, 02:30 PM

LilSissyStevie

10-06-2011, 02:52 PM

Blinded by the light,
revved up like a deuce,
another runner in the night
Blinded by the light

She got down but she never got tired
She's gonna make it through the night
She's gonna make it through the night

Mama always told me not to look into the eye's of the sun
But mama, that's where the fun is

You know what I'm sayin' ?
(I haven't a clue):heehee:

GingerLeigh

10-06-2011, 03:39 PM

Oh, I almost forgot...I can't hold my tongue.

How many ways does one person need to say "I told you so," Veronica? I get it. We all get it. But...if you think you were annoyed at the OP, your post just blew past it.

Yeah really. If an OP annoys me, I don't read it. I told you so is so...so high school. yay...hooray for you! Now, Anne said nothing wrong. She's merely finding herself, like almost all of us here. Self discovery has brought me to new revelations. I do and write things I never thought I would before, sometimes seemingly contradictory. I take a step forward, and find out something new I either denied existed or never knew existed in the first place.

I agree with you Anne, self discovery can be a scary thing. "What will I become?" is a tough question. Are you losing it? No. Is the light too bright? No, I don't think so. The light was always there, though choosing to stare into it too long will give you those funny little green globes that dance around your eyes and make it hard to see anything else. Look away for a little bit and see if the green globes go away. Otherwise, seeking a professional may be the best option. That's the only way to rule out whether or not you're TG or TS. No need to fret. Just enjoy basking in the light.....

Ginger

Kate Simmons

10-06-2011, 04:04 PM

The simplest answers are sometime the hardest to grasp as they are too painfully obvious. The simple answer is we are who we are, nothing more and nothing less. Sometimes coming to terms with that simple fact is difficult. I went a long time on the merry-g-round. Back and forth from masculine and feminine but decided to get off the ride by actually finding out who I was, accepting my feelings and amalgamating them. Basically, I took ownership of myself and am solely responsible for my actions. Once that happened who I was at any given time was my choice.

Men are not ALWAYS men and women are not ALWAYS women other then in the obvious genetic sense and we do not really have to drastically alter our bodies to conform to a supposed paradigm. When we are in command and control who we are becomes our choice. WHAT we are doesn't really seem that important any more and we are only truly limited by our own imagination. In a sense we are then in charge of our own destiny and can continue to move forward.:)

suchacutie

10-06-2011, 04:14 PM

Exactly!!! Anne is raising the very question we all have to deal with every day of our lives once we realize we have a feminine self!

Anne, I can only give you my approach: Every aspect of our lives is a balancing act. I happen to really enjoy playing golf, and yet have only played once in the last 15 years! Insane, huh? Well, maybe, but the reality is that my wife doesn't play golf and my life has been so tight that I put golf aside to be able to spend more time with my wife. It was a question of priority. Frankly, had I chosen the other way around you'd certainly be able to ask me why the heck I was still married! Every day we actively or tacitely make decisions that move our lives forward. You decide to go to work because you like to eat, and every other decision about your life is based upon your priorities.

For me, Tina suddenly appeared 6 years ago and forced her way into the "priority mix" It was pretty intense for a few days and during that time some decisions were made about her. Some of those decisions have stayed the same, some have been discarded, and some have evolved over time, but all were made in the context of the rest of my (our) life. I don't feel Tina can take over for me at work, for example, but she can make dinner!

For me it was important to learn about Tina and being Tina was the only way. We worked at how to transform, how fast the process could proceed, and how often my wife wanted her man. We put it all together and sometimes Tina is around more than others. It's dynamic and is affected by the rest of life, and I think that's not only OK, but necessary!

I'd be glad to exchange PMs if that would help! :)

be well

tina

Kittyagain

10-06-2011, 04:24 PM

We are a complicated lot but so, very, interesting.

Kitty

Sara Jessica

10-06-2011, 07:18 PM

Anne, what you are struggling with resonates with many. And I don't think anyone is down on you for using some flowery discourse. Heck, I found your post to be entertaining to the point where I was captivated by pretty much every word. Mostly because I understood the emotions behind the words.

Oh and BTW,

Oh, I almost forgot...I can't hold my tongue.

How many ways does one person need to say "I told you so," Veronica? I get it. We all get it. But...if you think you were annoyed at the OP, your post just blew past it.

Next time, please feel free to hold your tongue. Veronica was making a valid point, that there was a beyond-succinct one-sentence way to summarize Anne's message. And while you're at it, read Veronica's entire post before trashing it. It isn't an "I told you so" in a traditional sense. Veronica is clear that she was not taken seriously way back when as she voiced an opinion as to the direction Anne was likely heading, a direction I happened to have perceived as well.

Anne, I think Veronica sees a depth to "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" which I do not yet perceive. I believe you have many more experiences ahead of you. But I'm also firmly rooted in the opinion that like many of us you will find that balance thing which can be so elusive. I could be wrong but it's just my intuition.

BTW#2, yes Veronica, the term "middle path" emerged on mhB and I of course credit Erica for the term and have happily adopted it to describe my own situation.

Anne2345

10-06-2011, 07:25 PM

You know the old saw about staring into the sun too much and becoming blind? I see echoes of that here.

Do we stare at that light, that beautiful glow of femininity so much that we become blind to all else around us? Do we see all of life in that afterimage glow that staring into a bright light can give us? Are we blind to what we are really doing to others? To ourselves? To use another analogy, think of what happens to a bug when it gets too close to that beautiful, magnetic light. :)

One of the many things I appreciate and love about you, Kathi, is that you are never at a loss for a fantastic, applicable analogy. You make it look sooooo easy, girl! Your words are certainly strong in wisdom, and some of us here (hint, hint - me) would do well to heed such advice.

Some speak of having a 'girl' self and a 'boy' self. I have just one self. Me. I like to think of myself as a relatively-integrated whole.

I, too, consider myself just "me." I am sometimes guilty of writing as if I consider myself two separate parts, but that is usually out of convenience, and convenience only. This is one of the inherent risks of composing such short posts like I do - insufficient explanation due to lack of detail and proper expression. ;) As for the current "me," I am unsure who that is. But I am working on it . . . .

I told my therapist that if I was involved in an auto accident and the only way my life would be saved would be to surgically, chemically, and by any other method turn me into a full-fledged woman, I'd be thrilled. That is, I think I'd be thrilled. But I am actually more than thrilled with life RIGHT NOW. I love my wife more than anything and she likes me just the way the "new me" is, part boy, part girl. It's perfect. If I think about what life would be like without male body parts and I wouldn't miss those parts at all. But I can definitely accept this was the body I was born with.

I have always appreciated and respected the way you think, Amanda. "It's perfect," indeed. :) You set a wonderful example of a beautiful success story . . . .

The reality is I am a very happily married man with a family that I adore. My life is not perfect but it is damn good. I am, ahem :battingeyelashes:, near middle aged and all the surgery in the world is not going to make me into Sophia Vergara! I am so happy that I am now able to express my feminine side, the woman within me, whatever you want to call it even part time that I am ecstatic at times!

Ah yes, reality . . . . Sweet, crazy reality. What a concept "reality" is. Of course, my reality is very much identical in many, many ways to yours, Debby. And it is indeed "damn good." I neither disagree, nor desire to jeopardize my "reality." Neither of us can or should complain about our respective realities. It does not clear up my current confusion, but as you and others rightfully point out, there is a certain perspective that must be considered, maintained, and not forgotten . . . . Sometimes it is a little too easy to forget this simple premise, particularly when confused within the midst of the unknown.

While I am happy to see this wordy and flowery post . . . .

I just happen to like "wordy and flowery" posts, myself. I particularly enjoy the concept of "flowery" things. I also very much enjoy flowers. Moreover, I would be remiss if I neglected to mention my love of butterflies. And combine the two - butterflies and flowers - and you will observe in me one happy, content, at peace girl. ;)

And now that I think about it, I could begin a pleonastic, grandiloquent exposition extolling upon the pure, ethereal, feminine virtues and majestic beauty of both flowers and butterflies, but I fear it would be rather "wordy," and most assuredly "flowery." :heehee:

So to deal with the confusion, first, try to enjoy today, embracing your femininity to extent that you can. Second, carefully observe and assess the obstacles in your path. Third, where there are obstacles there are also opportunities - identify them or create them anew. Fourth, consider your options - how can you overcome these obstacles and exploit the opportunites, and finally, set out again on your path with a flexible plan towards your dreams. And be prepared to be surprised along the way.

Much in the manner of Kathi, you make it seem sooooooo easy . . . . But thank you! Not only for this, but for all of the behind the scenes advice! :)

We are a complicated lot but so, very, interesting.

If we were a simple folk, what would there be for us to talk about? Other than the color of our panties. D'OH!!! Sorry, that one just kind of slipped out!

And, of course, MAC cosmetics . . . . I could talk about that all day long . . . . :)

But I appreciate all of the wonderful and fantastic advice provided herein. I have much to think about, but I do believe there is hope for me yet, given the support of the forum . . . .

Torrey

10-06-2011, 07:33 PM

And while you're at it, read Veronica's entire post before trashing it.

Oh, ouch.

Quite frankly, there are too many people on this board telling everyone how to live their lives rather than listening & helping. Guess I'm not enough of an insider to be "right."

VeronicaMoonlit

10-07-2011, 01:26 AM

Talk is cheap...
I mean it with tough love... you write way too much and say way too little about what is really going on....you are all over the place because you are struggling...

I agree...she's not actually "Using the Words" and by avoiding doing so she's basically still doing the same thing she did when she was doing the "I love the closet" thing.

How many ways does one person need to say "I told you so," Veronica? I get it. We all get it. But...if you think you were annoyed at the OP, your post just blew past it.

Think about it, in June and August I warned her directly about this very thing...told her my years of experience in the online transcommunity showed me what would happen eventually, and it did. I expected it pretty quick too. She was lying to herself and she KNEW it. And then she encouraged the other "Closet lovers" to go after me...in PM too. "You're not supporting her! Don't push us... we realy love the closet" They love it because it lets them not think about it or have to deal in a realistic way with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds"

Yeah really. If an OP annoys me, I don't read it. I told you so is so...so high school. yay...hooray for you!

Maybe...but at least she could have acknowledged what some of us told her months ago.

Now, Anne said nothing wrong.

True, but she didn't say much specific at all...just a bunch of flowery words about loving feminity which hides the fact that she's not talking about dealing with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" or asking for suggestions. I like femme things myself...but there comes a time when you have to hop off the pink cloud and start talking with others about it, and dealing with how it affects you in everyday life. The flowery words are pretty and yes they do portray how "girly whirly" Anne sees herself, but it comes across as "despearately trying to hard to be perceived as feminine" just as it does with Frederique.

Is Anne talking to her wife, if any about this? Is she going to do mini-body mods like tweezing brows? Is she going to go out in public? Is she going to see a counselor? None of these things was mentioned. Is she even going to join the TS section and is that how she sees herself now? Lots of words, but not much said, as has been stated before.

I agree with you Anne, self discovery can be a scary thing.

Yes it is, which is why I gave her some good practical advice.

Mostly because I understood the emotions behind the words.

As did I, but emotions only get you so far. Quoting CS Lewis in one of the Narnia books:

"Crying is all right in its way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later"

Veronica was making a valid point, that there was a beyond-succinct one-sentence way to summarize Anne's message.

Right, I'm a believer in simplicity. it sometimes helps in dealing with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds"

It isn't an "I told you so" in a traditional sense. Veronica is clear that she was not taken seriously way back when as she voiced an opinion as to the direction Anne was likely heading, a direction I happened to have perceived as well.

Indeed. I knew it was coming...and was worried the effects wouldn't be good. what would happen when Anne realized she didn't really love the closet, that it was a bad thing that restricted her too much...would she "act out" in a way that wouldn't be good for her?

Anne, I think Veronica sees a depth to "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" which I do not yet perceive. I believe you have many more experiences ahead of you.

Oh she will...that's also why I told her "Experimentation Changes You."

But I'm also firmly rooted in the opinion that like many of us you will find that balance thing which can be so elusive. I could be wrong but it's just my intuition.

Most certainly it's possible...Anne just keep asking questions, try things "out for size" in an emotional way...and see what works.

BTW#2, yes Veronica, the term "middle path" emerged on mhB and I of course credit Erica for the term and have happily adopted it to describe my own situation.

Sorry about that...I Just wanted to emphasize that the term was also used sometimes by what I call "proto-TS" who were afraid to admit they were TS's and used the term (and other things) to avoid talking about "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" in certain ways that were scary and upsetting to them....like me.

Yes it is possible to find the balance...except when it isn't...which makes me sad.

I am sometimes guilty of writing as if I consider myself two separate parts, but that is usually out of convenience, and convenience only.

That is VERY good to hear.

And now that I think about it, I could begin a pleonastic, grandiloquent exposition extolling upon the pure, ethereal, feminine virtues and majestic beauty of both flowers and butterflies, but I fear it would be rather "wordy," and most assuredly "flowery." :heehee:

I personally don't consider butterflies and flowers to be solely in the feminine sphere though cutlure has put them there. They are beautiful things that deserve admiration from everyone, male and female. Unicorns and glitter on the other hand......ha ha I'm just kidding.

But I appreciate all of the wonderful and fantastic advice provided herein. I have much to think about, but I do believe there is hope for me yet, given the support of the forum . . . .

There is always hope. Don't be like me and quote LOTR: Onen i estel Edain, u-chebin estel anim.

Quite frankly, there are too many people on this board telling everyone how to live their lives rather than listening & helping. Guess I'm not enough of an insider to be "right."

I didn't tell her HOW, I told her to be honest with herself, which she wasn't. How she deals with it is her choice. I knew this would be coming eventually because I did listen..and I was trying to prevent it or lessen the problems it could cause or reduce it's severity. You probably don't know that I've been part of the online transcommunity since 1999. Was a member of Tri-Ess too, so yes...I've seen much of what we see here on these boards years ago. By learning from the past we can make the future better.

Veronica

LeaP

10-07-2011, 06:48 AM

Although you speak of both awakening and evolution, this may be your most telling statement:

"My community will never accept me for who I may be, this much I am sure of."

It sounds like you already know the destination.

The bright light metaphor is interesting. It's both a barrier and an attraction. When it's time, however, people choose to walk into it - despite it's blinding brightness.

Lea

Sara Jessica

10-07-2011, 08:22 AM

Anne, please forgive us as we talk behind your back right in front of you :) ...

ITrue, but she didn't say much specific at all...just a bunch of flowery words about loving feminity which hides the fact that she's not talking about dealing with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" or asking for suggestions. I like femme things myself...but there comes a time when you have to hop off the pink cloud and start talking with others about it, and dealing with how it affects you in everyday life. The flowery words are pretty and yes they do portray how "girly whirly" Anne sees herself, but it comes across as "despearately trying to hard to be perceived as feminine" just as it does with Frederique.

It's an interesting point you make. I perceive femininity in many of us in these pages regardless of the decorated words. But more importantly, IMHO, Anne's style of writing is just that, her style. She has a clear command of language and chooses to add the color for effect. Put the whole thing together and you have the reason many of us write...catharsis. A chance to allow this side of us to be expressive when we are alone. A place to share our feelings along with advice & experiences.

Is Anne talking to her wife, if any about this? Is she going to do mini-body mods like tweezing brows? Is she going to go out in public? Is she going to see a counselor? None of these things was mentioned. Is she even going to join the TS section and is that how she sees herself now? Lots of words, but not much said, as has been stated before.

These are good questions Veronica and it reflects the vast number of observations you have been privy to over the years. And a lot of it may come to fruition but remember, regardless of where Anne perceives herself to be within the TG spectrum, I see her as being in the early stages of introspection. Now I could be so wrong but this is my perception. I think a lot of these things you mention will come to the surface as she experiences them, very similar to her forays into MAC-land.

Sorry about that...I Just wanted to emphasize that the term was also used sometimes by what I call "proto-TS" who were afraid to admit they were TS's and used the term (and other things) to avoid talking about "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" in certain ways that were scary and upsetting to them....like me.

The middle-pather can lean towards either side of the gender spectrum. I can think of one person in particular who all things being equal would not entertain full transition while on the other hand, I would do so in a heartbeat. But it brings up an entirely new can of worms to talk about a middle pather being afraid to admit they are TS. Sounds like the stuff of another thread.

Yes it is possible to find the balance...except when it isn't...which makes me sad.

Balance can be elusive but when achieved, it's like a dream come true. But it's far from easy and can be oh so fleeting.

Although you speak of both awakening and evolution, this may be your most telling statement:

"My community will never accept me for who I may be, this much I am sure of."

It sounds like you already know the destination.

This is yet another sub-plot in the discussion. I don't believe Anne knows her destination yet and as such, her statement may never matter in the grand scheme of things. I have been on my own journey of introspection for many years and could believe the same exact thing. Until if & when those waters are tested, one will never truly know the answer.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-07-2011, 08:41 AM

Sara if balance is fleeting , then its not balance at all...

when you ignore the whole can of worms, and live a life that is not yours, that's not balance either... and its the unfortunate fate of many to find this out only after many many years...and btw..i acknowledge that the can of worms can "get you"...people have transitioned and have regretted the decision (not the actual transition) but the OUTCOME...so its a reasonable human decision to take the bird in the hand, and somehow resolve to make it work..

I think there is something in the idea that these long and flowery posts seem a little desperate...me thinks the lady doth protest too much style...
and well meaning people are reading that as an expression of suffering and need...something that they have experienced... and it can be difficult to read the post, and see the responses to be basically the same thing

what does this mean for example?
"...yes, reality . . . . Sweet, crazy reality. What a concept "reality" is. Of course, my reality is very much identical in many, many ways to yours, Debby. And it is indeed "damn good." I neither disagree, nor desire to jeopardize my "reality." Neither of us can or should complain about our respective realities. It does not clear up my current confusion, but as you and others rightfully point out, there is a certain perspective that must be considered, maintained, and not forgotten . . . . Sometimes it is a little too easy to forget this simple premise, particularly when confused within the midst of the unknown."

this is not a critical statement...

anne what do you want from "us"

To admire your prose and compliment its femininity?
To join in a mutual admiration society? there are plenty "oh i so much enjoy your writing" posts..

If so, that's perfectly valid and then people that are reading it can relax and enjoy it..

But then the actual ideas in the posts become kind of meaningless

Anne2345

10-07-2011, 10:35 AM

As to the questions posed by Kaitlyn Michele and VeronicaMoonlit regarding my "wordy and flowery" posts, I have quickly compiled a short list as to why I write in this manner:

1) I just so happen to really enjoy writing in this manner;
2) I do put effort, thought, and time into the composition of my posts. As a result, I think about the meaning of the words I choose to use, and the manner in which I use such words. I have learned much about myself simply by writing;
3) I find such writing to be cathartic;
4) It is a form of self-expression, and portrays who I am; and
5) Because I can . . . .

But just this once, and this one time only, for the remainder of this response, I shall forego all the words and flowers, and let you know how I really feel . . . .

While I am happy to see this wordy and flowery post. a simple "I was clueless, forgive me." would have sufficed to summarize most of it..... I am also....annoyed. Yes, yes I am.
So, Veronica, you are annoyed? You are annoyed???!!!! Why? Because I am beginning to actually learn some stuff about myself that I did not previously know? Actually, Veronica, it has been my master plan here just to annoy you. Please forgive me for annoying you. Completely my bad, Veronica.

Not that long ago, in June and August, I warned you about this.....and was castigated for doing so by yourself and others. I told you and others that my long experience with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" told me that deep down you really didn't love that closet you claimed to love so much and that eventually you would have to admit that.

And here you are.....I told you so. I'll say that again: I told you so.

As soon as I submitted the OP, I saw your name online, Veronica, and I knew, I absolutely knew you would respond and say “I told you so.” And did you disappoint? No, you did not. WTF is this “I told you so” crap???!! My thoughts are all over the f$cking place, I am having an incredibly difficult time just keeping my sh!t together, and you are sitting there smugly, telling me “I told you so?” Just what are you trying to accomplish here, Veronica? Shall I bow down to you now, and your infinite f*cking smug wisdom??!!!

Think about it, in June and August I warned her directly about this very thing...told her my years of experience in the online transcommunity showed me what would happen eventually, and it did. I expected it pretty quick too. She was lying to herself and she KNEW it.

And WHAT THE F$CK IS THIS B$LLSH!T????!!!! I was lying to myself then and I KNEW it??!!! I KNEW IT???!!! HOW F*CKING DARE YOU, VERONICA!!!!
You do NOT know me. I KNEW IT???!!! You exhibit the height and epitome of arrogance, Veronica. I KNEW IT???!!!! You have GOT to be kidding me???!!!

True, but she didn't say much specific at all...just a bunch of flowery words about loving feminity which hides the fact that she's not talking about dealing with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" or asking for suggestions. I like femme things myself...but there comes a time when you have to hop off the pink cloud and start talking with others about it, and dealing with how it affects you in everyday life. The flowery words are pretty and yes they do portray how "girly whirly" Anne sees herself, but it comes across as "despearately trying to hard to be perceived as feminine" just as it does with Frederique.

Sigh. Whatever.

You know, Veronica, the truth of the matter is that you do make some legitimate points and observations. I acknowledge that. But your delivery and method of communicating your points SUCKS!!!! When someone is down on the ground, in pain, confused, not knowing up from down, do you ALWAYS kick them a couple of times in the gut, tell them how great you are, and express your frustration and annoyance with that person because they had the audacity to question you, The Great Veronica?!!!! Well excuse me for being so naïve and stupid. I should have just stopped all inner self-exploration right then and there, and just accepted YOUR word as the gospel. I also suppose I shouldn't have KNOWINGLY LIED to myself, huh? What the HELL was I thinking???!! Again, Completely. My. BAD!!!!

anne what do you want from "us"
To admire your prose and compliment its femininity?
To join in a mutual admiration society? there are plenty "oh i so much enjoy your writing" posts..

LOL. No, Kaitlyn, this is not what I want, and I know you know this. I admit I enjoy the occasional compliment or two as much as the next person. But who doesn’t? If it were compliments I was seeking, I would write easier things. Fun things. Beautiful things. Meaningless things. Or whatever. And I would do so in my “wordy and flowery” writing style. In fact, I would very much enjoy doing this. I just do not have it in me at the current time. Those words are lacking . . . .

I think there is something in the idea that these long and flowery posts seem a little desperate...

BINGO!!!! You hit the nail on the head! There IS something desperate about my last couple of posts! That being that I do not know who the **** I am!!!! I thought I did! I have been told that I knew better, that I knew I was lying to myself, but the fact of the matter is that I do not know WHO I am. Am I this, that, or the other thing? THIS is the question I am attempting to answer.

So feel free to compliment my long and flowery posts if you so choose. Or do not compliment them. I do not care. BUT, if you are able to assist me in finding the answers I seek, or you are able to point me in the right direction, or even offer me a few words of comfort and support while I am down, or just offer me a shoulder to cry on, I would be greatly, greatly appreciative . . . . And in this, I am most sincere.

Please forgive me as I log off now . . . . I am absolutely exhausted, profoundly confused, angry, and I feel a desperate and deep need to cry . . . .

LeaP

10-07-2011, 11:38 AM

First, I found the OP to be open, honest, and thoughtful. I appreciate it.

I have some of the same conflicts and have said elsewhere that I regard these as stemming from gender and role expectations - not gender per se. So how do you balance gender? In my case by rejecting it. That said, where one goes with their understanding and what one does with it are often very different. What I would is not what I will. What I will has been influenced, however, by the few things I have allowed myself. Surely this is inevitable? All of this is really talking all around the identity problem: what one is cannot be divorced from what one does. That there should be some surprises (a known unknown) doesn't change the fact that people often know more than they are ABLE to acknowledge. In my case that I'm highly gender dysphoric but very unlikely to be a TS. So for me, becoming more open about gender issues didn't change anything, really. I'm still dysphoric, I've just given it a name and a framework for understanding it. My FEAR was that I was transsexual. Walking into the light after I couldn't take it anymore yielded clarity - for now.

In short, you sound like you are doing everything right, at the right time, and in the right sequence. You couldn't have taken the "I told you so" advice (or viewpoint), at that time, if you wanted to. May you find clarity and relief.

Lea

Frédérique

10-07-2011, 11:43 AM

As to the questions posed by Kaitlyn Michele and VeronicaMoonlit regarding my "wordy and flowery" posts, I have quickly compiled a short list as to why I write in this manner:
1) I just so happen to really enjoy writing in this manner;
2) I do put effort, thought, and time into the composition of my posts. As a result, I think about the meaning of the words I choose to use, and the manner in which I use such words. I have learned much about myself simply by writing;
3) I find such writing to be cathartic;
4) It is a form of self-expression, and portrays who I am; and
5) Because I can . . . .
Please forgive me as I log off now . . . . I am absolutely exhausted, profoundly confused, angry, and I feel a desperate and deep need to cry . . . .

Thanks, Kaitlyn and Veronica, for trodding on the beautiful people with your misanthropic prose, pointless rhetoric, and non-supportive blather. What keeps you two non-beauties coming to this site, anyway? Do you get your jollies bursting little girl’s balloons and making them cry? You should be ashamed of yourselves, but I know you aren’t, and you never will be, because you don’t have the capacity to appreciate anything beautiful. I’m guessing NOBODY has ever complimented either of you on your writing, other than to say “Sod Off” in so many words, but I digress...

I placed you two winners on my ignore list a long time ago, along with other bullies and trollers, but darned if I can still see your negative posts being quoted within other member’s attempts to communicate in an elegant, supportive, and...er...communicative manner. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve told someone to ignore you two, and others like you. It's true. You either don’t like MtF crossdressers, or you don’t like being a crossdresser (pardon me if I don’t know what type you are – it doesn’t really matter), or you hate people who enjoy crossdressing. This comes through loud and clear in your so-called writing, which, from my point of view, resembles hate mail. Leave the poor girl alone, or construct a special place on this site for the misanthropes and misogynists to gather and make fun of anyone who DARES to be feminine...

There’s a thing called expression, and another thing called “eloquence,” and some people on this site use these them, via the written word, to get in touch with kindred spirits, namely other lonely or confused souls who may have similar reasons to crossdress. It’s a crossdressing site, and a discussion forum, not a place where bullies can find easy targets to "deal with" their own insecure relationship to life. If you think I’m over-stating the case, you should realize how you’re coming across and do something to correct it. If you have no all-encompassing compassion for your fellow crossdressers, or for transgendered individuals, or, more specifically, for someone who is trying to see the beauty in CD’ing (and all things), then you should go elsewhere. Who am I? Just a disgruntled observer, that’s all...

Veronica, you’re not much of a person, in my estimation, if you have to take a poke at me inside of another person’s thread – grow up and learn how to either address people properly, or ignore them entirely (as I do to you on a daily basis). If you have nothing meaningful to offer to the topic at hand, move on and find something you can relate to – perhaps pulling the wings off of flies would be more to your liking. All you do is criticize what others have written, and if something is written WELL, you just can’t help yourself, can you? I feel sorry for you – crossdressing, in your case, must be a terrible, ugly blight of some kind, and it has made you completely miserable. What’s that? I’m taking a poke at YOU inside someone else’s thread? Yeah, that’s right, all because you made my friend, one of the most beautiful people on this site, leave in a fit of anger, confusion and tears. I think if you and Kaitlyn left the site in a similar condition, we’d all be the better for it. Would it kill you to offer a kind word now and then, or maybe just avoid topics (like beauty) you are unfamiliar with, or maybe not even log on in the first place?

Poor Anne - she crafts these written pearls, only to place them at the feet of swine like the aforementioned purveyors of negativity. IGNORE them, Anne, and shine on brightly. You write extremely well, and you know what you’re talking (writing) about, unlike some people I do not wish to know (see above)...
:straightface:

Sara Jessica

10-07-2011, 11:57 AM

Terrific post Kaitlyn. Lots of good points there from yet another perspective.

As for balance being fleeting, it means that the struggle never ends. One can make a decision that their path is the middle one but there are still times when you wonder how you'll be able to cope any longer.

I smiled when I read your comment "the lady doth protest too much style" but again, I truly believe Anne's journey of introspection is fairly new and that we should cut her some slack when it comes to style points. I remember what it meant to me to be able to write to someone who gave a hoot well before I discovered forums such as this. It truly is an important part of that introspective process that I found to be rewarding, cathartic and crucial to the sense of self I currently have.

t-girlxsophie

10-07-2011, 12:12 PM

I too,Once I read Anne's Post had the feeling ,she would be getting trampled on by certain Individuals.and lo and behold it wasn't long before I was thinking "theres a %$@#&$ surprise,We dont know how hard it is for Anne to put her feelings into words,about what's in her heart.Maybe a little understanding of that fact wouldn't go amiss by some

Sophie

larry

10-07-2011, 02:24 PM

Anne, It is a little hard to get thru some of these posts but what " I " see is 90% of the replies want to support you and wish you well. No B/S Girl..

Torrey

10-07-2011, 03:11 PM

Hey Anne,

Beyond the style of your writing, perhaps the little people are just too wrapped up in themselves and their own unhappiness to avoid channeling their own inner b**ch. One has to question the voracity of anyone replying to another's post with a comment in Elfin, using insider terms (that I can only deduce came into being in the 90s), and continuing to brag about how much she knows and how long she has been in her particular form of co-dependency.

Having said that, one might say that the voyage of self discovery begins with a single step. To that end, and despite your surprise and fears, you are taking that step. In the 18th & 19th century, travelers would walk from Nashville to New Orleans down the Natchez Trace- a narrow lane carved through the piney woods of Mississippi & Louisiana. Typically, this was a dangerous journey because highwaymen would lurk about in the underbrush waiting to rob, beat, and murder unsuspecting passers by...sometimes just for the thrill of it (but usually with robbery in mind). In fact, Meriwether Lewis died on the Trace, it is said. They were the obstacles in the road to those travelers. Certain posters on this thread are placing themselves in your way as obstacles, probably because they are jealous of your growth and self discovery. Do not let them dissuade you.

It makes no difference how long one has been a member here, online, or in any other community. It makes no difference how knowledgeable they purport to be. All that matters for you is that they can support you, give you good advice, and, perhaps be more concerned with you than their own reflection. It's a shame you cannot just delete the specific posts you do not want to read, or that are just mean, but perhaps you'll be able to scroll past them now that they have shown their true colors.

And...geez...if only you had known that you were not expressing yourself in way that was pleasing to "them..."

Hugs,
Torrey

Sara Jessica

10-07-2011, 03:15 PM

Yikes!!!

I think many should take a deep breath.

Anne, no one would put the effort into these replies if they were not trying to be genuinely helpful. Even you said it yourself, dig beneath the first impression and there are some decent points made.

Discussion shouldn't be upsetting but when there are tangents involving closets and fear on top of the vulnerability you laid out there, I can see how things got this way.

Breathe.

Debglam

10-07-2011, 03:28 PM

This is not directed at anyone in particular but there is a huge difference between "being honest," "tough love," "disagreement" or whatever the hell else you want to call it and some of the posts I have seen on this forum lately? What is going on? This is really sad and the worst part is there are scared newbies checking out this forum, probably terrified to post (you all remember that I assume?) seeing this sh*t and taking a step back into the closet!

Come on, lets try to remember that. We are better than this bullsh*t.

Anne, you know how I feel.

NathalieX66

10-07-2011, 03:29 PM

Anne,
I think this is a really good post, and I'm glad you wrote it.

We can only do what's best for ourselves. We come on this forum for answers, we share notes, that hopefully we can apply in our own lives. All our paths are not the same.

Life is a journey, and gender is a spectrum. Somewhere along that journey, we are going to set a different compass bearing, probably more than once.. ....the latter always happens when I'm at the helm of a sailboat trying to find a course. That's the nature of the beast.

Kathi Lake

10-07-2011, 03:52 PM

All right, ladies, time to hit the showers!!

Take a breath, and step away from the keyboards. Let's keep our tempers in check, the name-calling to a minimum, and a civil tongue in our heads. The goal for this forum is one of support. Yes, support can sometimes take the form of a good kick to the behind, but let's kick with kindness, shall we?

We are all on a journey here. We don't all know our destinations. We don't know what twists and turns our journey will take us on. What we do know is that we are on that journey with a lot of others just like us. Let's learn from one another, support one another, and help one another when and how we can. Sometimes it is fine that the emperor has no clothes.

Kathi

Kaitlyn Michele

10-07-2011, 03:53 PM

That's more like it Anne!!
loved the honesty, loved the getting pissed off..

i don't know everything, I'm not always right, but i am willing to say what i think and share my experience... you put yourself out there and that takes guts, even on a forum..i have done the same thing over the years..when i first posted it was about going out for the first time, getting maamed for the first time, how my marraige was falling apart...rough stuff..no doubt one of the outlets was here...

My experience informs what i think.... and right or wrong..i think there is a big wall in front of you...and you need support and guidance...and yes a shoulder to cry on...
you need real life day to day, face to face experience with a person that is knowledgeable about this stuff, and who can support you..whether that's a friend, a therapist or whatever...it's not in these essays. the impression i get is that they are building up the wall, not dealing with it.. sorry for the wall cliche, not a huge fan of it, its all i got..

A cup of coffee with a couple of transgendered women would do you a world of good..

here's the thing...saying something that a person may not like hearing is not negative... i don't make fun of people, i don't taunt people, i don't mock people, i don't play games with people..
for many of us, its not a game.. if for Anne it turns out this is all just a game, that's great, and I hope for her that's what it is...but that's not what it looks like to me..and people rushing to your "defense" are enablers

for people that choose to attack me personally,
i'm a sincere well meaning anonymous voice, with lots and lots of battle scars..I'm nothing more or less...it's your loss if you think something else

PretzelGirl

10-07-2011, 05:53 PM

There is one thing very important that is missing here. Anne really needs this :bh:

Anne, this balance thingy is easy to talk about but isn't always easy to achieve. In my thoughts, it depends on how emotional we get. You are advancing and it is fulfilling and scary. We want more and have a fear of going too far. It is okay to question where you should be because you are learning and exploring it. You were comfortable where you were at and all of a sudden you advanced to another stage. It is okay.

My best recommendations to you are to take your time. Examine how you feel. Move forward slowly so you don't have regrets but not so slow that it is painful. Think about what you enjoy and that includes what you enjoyed that you may have left behind. You don't want to lose other parts of yourself in the process. And have those good cries.

Then you can see where you are. Balance does move a little because life is always changing. So it is okay to have to shift once in a while. But take your time and let your thinking have most of the control the balance and not let it be 100% emotional.

And just know that whatever you do, you are being yourself. :bh:

VeronicaMoonlit

10-07-2011, 06:13 PM

4) It is a form of self-expression, and portrays who I am; and
5) Because I can . . . .

Fair enough, but it often obscures the point of the message.

let you know how I really feel . . . .

GOOD! Finally! Some real words out of you. You're angry! GOOD! You're going to need that strength.

Because I am beginning to actually learn some stuff about myself that I did not previously know?

Actually, I was annoyed because you already knew it, but didn't want to admit it, no matter what anyone said to you. You were actively not listening to the good advice you were given. But more on this later on.

WTF is this “I told you so” crap???!! My thoughts are all over the f$cking place, I am having an incredibly difficult time just keeping my sh!t together, and you are sitting there smugly, telling me “I told you so?” Just what are you trying to accomplish here, Veronica? Shall I bow down to you now, and your infinite f*cking smug wisdom??!!!

GOOD! You're angry! You're going to need that. "This Thing of Ours of VArying Kinds" can be hard! It requires courage, it requires determination, it requires strength. My purpose was to get you angry and get some honest words out of you. Yes, yes I guess I was being manipulative. And yes, you should have listened to the people telling you those things in those threads months ago...but you only wanted to hear what you wanted to hear...things that agreed with you. Like from Frederique and Suzy and others. We also learn from those who say the things we don't want to hear. The things that might hurt us sometimes. Sad but true.

I was lying to myself then and I KNEW it??!!! I KNEW IT???!!! HOW F*CKING DARE YOU, VERONICA!!!!
You do NOT know me. I KNEW IT???!!!

Actually I do know you to a certain extent...I was you (and Frederique as well)...back in 1999. Recognized the patterns right off. You should have seen me...pink text on floral backgrounds, girly girl images on my old website. flowers, butterflies, winged goddesses, overwrought prose...I even did poetry. Trying so desperately hard to be perceived as feminine. And then someone told me... "If you're truly feminine...you will be perceived as such without the crutches." They were right too, in the long run, though at first I was mad at them. I said all sorts of things....your posts on "respect how I love my closet"...I could have written those. Really...I was you. And people told me the things I told you. And I didn't listen at first.....but I learned. I said in 1999 that I would never go out in public in my hometown....in 2001...I went out in public in my hometown. And when I said I didn't want to go out, or later on that I wasn't a TS...I knew damn well I wanted to go out and wanted to transition. I just couldn't admit it, because then I'd have to admit I was too afraid to admit them and to try them. That I was scared and frightened. And frankly if you look deep inside your core...you will admit that it is true. You did know...but didn't want to admit it. Do you understand now? The things I said were to simply try to break through the artificial wall you'd created. To get you angry and thinking. Now you can actually talk about the real issues.

You exhibit the height and epitome of arrogance, Veronica. I KNEW IT???!!!! You have GOT to be kidding me???!!!

Are you telling me that deep down inside in your secret hidden desires and thoughts that you didn't want to express yourself more? Because you did, or THIS thread itself wouldn't have happened...you would have been satisfied. You knew those desires were there, but you caged them as well as you could and didn't admit to having them....just like I did.

You know, Veronica, the truth of the matter is that you do make some legitimate points and observations. I acknowledge that.

Thank you, very much...I'm proud of you.

But your delivery and method of communicating your points SUCKS!!!! When someone is down on the ground, in pain, confused, not knowing up from down, do you ALWAYS kick them a couple of times in the gut,

To be honest my thoughts were something like this:

"Ah, the breakdown....that was sooner than I expected, but not unexpected...well what do I do, do I let her wallow for a while maybe act out or do some things she'll regret, get some pretty words but bad advice from someone, or give her a little push and kick start with some tough love to get her started....tough love it is then...here we go. Goddess they're going to think I'm an asshole...so be it...because I CAN be an asshole...a well meaning one."

tell them how great you are, and express your frustration and annoyance with that person because they had the audacity to question you, The Great Veronica?!!!!

Yes, I often forget my reputation hasn't traveled with me. I was on USENET, look me up. I had a reputation for being someone that "when she speaks...people listen." I don't post often...but when I do...I get to the crux of the matter and tend to have insightful things to say. It's why I often reply late to threads, I'm not usually the first responder. It's what I did there...it's what I've done here to a certain extent...and a few other places on the internet. Second Life too, because I'm an oldbie there. I'm not used to people "not listening to me". Yes I can be arrogant, in part due to my long years of experience with "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds." I've read a ton of posts, on USENET and various message boards, read a ton of books, Bem, Money, Stoller, Green? Read them. Boyd, Bornstein, and Serano? Yep. Rudd, Allen, Vera, yep. Makeup and fashion books too, as well as magazines ever since I was young. Read some feminist stuff too, especially the third wavers. Been on IRC too, various mailing lists, and was a memnber of Tri-Ess.

Well excuse me for being so naïve and stupid. I should have just stopped all inner self-exploration right then and there, and just accepted YOUR word as the gospel.

Hey! When someone tells you something you don't want to hear, maybe they have a good reason...rather than closing your ears and going "la la la not listening" perhaps you should pay attention! I told you things and I told you WHY. Frankly, if you had listened to me, wouldn't it have avoided this internal turmoil? Would this very post have happened if you'd have admitted to yourself your deepest secret desires?

I also suppose I shouldn't have KNOWINGLY LIED to myself, huh? What the HELL was I thinking???!! Again, Completely. My. BAD!!!!

Simply put, you shouldn't have lied to yourself. As I have said before...Lies do not become us and cause many problems for us. I know this through personal experience, remember, because I was very much like you.

BINGO!!!! You hit the nail on the head! There IS something desperate about my last couple of posts! That being that I do not know who the **** I am!!!! I thought I did!

Then lets talk about THAT. But I think you DO know...but you don't want to admit it because it frightens you...but that's okay, it is scary.

I have been told that I knew better, that I knew I was lying to myself, but the fact of the matter is that I do not know WHO I am. Am I this, that, or the other thing? THIS is the question I am attempting to answer.

Then answer it, you have all the tools you need. Ask the questions of your self and others. Do you want to go out in public, yes or no? If there were no obstacles...would you live full time as a woman. If there was a pill that would magically change you into a woman right now with no repercussions whatsoever...would you take it.

BUT, if you are able to assist me in finding the answers I seek, or you are able to point me in the right direction, or even offer me a few words of comfort and support while I am down, or just offer me a shoulder to cry on, I would be greatly, greatly appreciative . . . . And in this, I am most sincere.

I just did. :-) Think of unicorns and glitter! sparkly rainbow unicorns...It helps. When I am "down" I often think of cute sparkly winged unicorns cheering me up and fighting off despair with rainbow sparkles. No, I don't watch the new My Little Pony show. But you're going to have some tough questions to answer, from yourself and others...you need to be ready. Women can't just survive on passivity and soft words. A modern woman has to be strong, to take what the world can dish out.

Please forgive me as I log off now . . . . I am absolutely exhausted, profoundly confused, angry, and I feel a desperate and deep need to cry . . . .

Have a good cry...it will be cathartic...but after the cry, there will be things to think about...and perhaps do.

Do you get your jollies bursting little girl’s balloons and making them cry?

You and Anne are not little girls...you are adults and perhaps strive to be adult women.

because you don’t have the capacity to appreciate anything beautiful.

You know me not at all and have learned nothing if you say that about me. Hellloooooo VeronicaMoonlit? Shoe obsessed? Makeupista? Second Life Fashionista? Gamer? Nerd? I appreciate beauty in many things...I just don't talk about it to prove how girly I am.

I’m guessing NOBODY has ever complimented either of you on your writing, other than to say “Sod Off” in so many words, but I digress...

You would be wrong there. I usually get "insightful and to the point." My writing style isn't what's important, my ideas and information are. For example you could say "don't burn yourself on the stove" in a very flowery and ornate way, but it wouldn't get the point across any faster or more effectively than a simple "don't burn yourself on the stove." And basically that's what I did to Anne back in June and August "don't burn yourself with This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds, here's what I've learned."

I placed you two winners on my ignore list a long time ago, along with other bullies and trollers, but darned if I can still see your negative posts being quoted within other member’s attempts to communicate in an elegant, supportive, and...er...communicative manner.

We can sometimes learn much from those who disagree with us. By muting us, you will only hear what you want to hear and that leads to ignorance. Ignorance is not bliss, Frederique.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve told someone to ignore you two, and others like you.

Wow, aren't you passive-aggressive. by doing so, you're only hurting others in the same way you're hurting yourself. I have NEVER told anyone to ignore or mute you. I am VERY reluctant to do so. I find it counter productive in the long term.

It's true. You either don’t like MtF crossdressers, or you don’t like being a crossdresser (pardon me if I don’t know what type you are – it doesn’t really matter), or you hate people who enjoy crossdressing.

Hello? I'm the VeronicaMoonlit? Used to identify as crossdreser now identifies as TS? And as many times as I've posted comments on shopping threads you should know that I like people who enjoy crossdressing with the angst.

Leave the poor girl alone,

You and Anne are not poor little helpless mary jane and puffy dress wearing little girls...You're adults! Adult women need to be strong! This put upon passivity has little place in modern woman hood.

or construct a special place on this site for the misanthropes and misogynists to gather and make fun of anyone who DARES to be feminine...

Frederique... if you're feminine...it's a fakey put upon femininity that went out of style years ago. a plethora of old retro stereotypes. You're this:

"Oh those men, they don't feel like women...they're horrid creatures violent and evil. They don't love beauty and softness." You know...I might have said something similar once upon a time. Once I was like you, but worse. And if you knew one thing about me, you'd know I identify as femme. I like flowers, I like sparkle, I already have my organizer calender for next year...it has Hello Kitty on it. I filled out my work timesheet today...with a Hello Kitty Pen. I ordered new glasses...the frames are from the women's section...my sister and I were there together and we went to that section...first...there was simply no discussion of me getting mens frames. I have long hair, I sleep in women's jammies...much of my clothing is womens. I hsave my body hair. I can tell you the names of the two most popular OPI nail colors in a second. I subscribe to Allure magazine...it comes to my house with the first name of Veronica on it. I like pretty shoes and skirts, I love perfume. I love baby talking to my cat and calling her my baby waby. I have to admit to watching Mad Men at first...for the fashion. I love the Gilmore Girls. I like "chick lit"

But unlike you I don't feel the need to shout those things to these boards over and over again to prove to everyone just how girly, sensitive and feminine I am. I know I am femme...I really don't have to prove it to myself all that much.

If you think I’m over-stating the case, you should realize how you’re coming across and do something to correct it. If you have no all-encompassing compassion for your fellow crossdressers, or for transgendered individuals, or, more specifically, for someone who is trying to see the beauty in CD’ing (and all things), then you should go elsewhere. Who am I? Just a disgruntled observer, that’s all...

Everything I have said, I've said for a reason.

Veronica, you’re not much of a person, in my estimation, if you have to take a poke at me inside of another person’s thread – grow up and learn how to either address people properly, or ignore them entirely (as I do to you on a daily basis).

Frederique...I knew you would be reading this thread....because you were one of the people telling Anne back in June and August to not listen to those who told her what she didn't want to hear and disagreed with her. You did her a disservice then, and you're doing her a disservice now.

All you do is criticize what others have written, and if something is written WELL, you just can’t help yourself, can you?

Actually I don't...I only criticize things that need criticizing. I praise many times, much more often than I criticize...as many people can tell you, Kathi, Sara Jessica, Violet, Pythos, Jodi, Zenith, Skirtsuit, TXKimberly, SuzanneBender many others.

I feel sorry for you – crossdressing, in your case, must be a terrible, ugly blight of some kind, and it has made you completely miserable.

You know me not at all to say that.

Yeah, that’s right, all because you made my friend, one of the most beautiful people on this site, leave in a fit of anger, confusion and tears.

She hasn't left permanently, and you are NOT her friend. Do you know why you're not her friend? a True Friend sometimes has to tell you things you don't want to hear and all you've done is condescended to her and treated her like a fragile child than the adult she is. "Oh those meanies who tell you what you don't want to hear, you shouldn't listen to them, only listen to dear sweet Frederique, we are such fragile flowers"

Would it kill you to offer a kind word now and then,

I do and did. Plenty of times. You would know that if you hadn't put me on ignore.

or maybe just avoid topics (like beauty) you are unfamiliar with,

I understand beauty quite well...I just don't feel the need to shout my love of beauty to these boards to prove how girly and feminine I am.

Poor Anne - she crafts these written pearls, only to place them at the feet of swine like the aforementioned purveyors of negativity. IGNORE them, Anne, and shine on brightly. You write extremely well, and you know what you’re talking (writing) about, unlike some people I do not wish to know (see above)...

What did I say...that's pure condescension right there. Anne is not a fragile butterfly, she's an adult, who maybe hopes to be an adult woman someday. She's going to need strength, and determination. Flowery words are nice in and of themselves, but she's going to need more than that to deal with this.

We dont know how hard it is for Anne to put her feelings into words,about what's in her heart.Maybe a little understanding of that fact wouldn't go amiss by some

Sophie

All right, fair enough. But Anne wrote much and said little. Lots of words, little meaning. To quote an old commercial "where's the beef" Now when she got angry, there we got some REAL words.

One has to question the voracity of anyone replying to another's post with a comment in Elfin, using insider terms (that I can only deduce came into being in the 90s),

The Quote's from the Lord of the Rings, I read it 33 years ago when I was 11. the books were published in the mid 1950's. It means: I gave hope to the Dunedain, I kept none for myself." it was said by Aragorns Mother, who gave him the birthname Estel...which is hope. For many many years I had no hope, but I was wrong to lose hope. That's what my quote was about....It isn't that obscure, the Lord of the Rings is a very popular book and we have Google.

Having said that, one might say that the voyage of self discovery begins with a single step.

The Road goes ever on. That's a Lord of the Rings reference too. if You've seen the first film Bilbo makes a voice over similar to your statement.

Certain posters on this thread are placing themselves in your way as obstacles, probably because they are jealous of your growth and self discovery. Do not let them dissuade you.

Poppycock! How can I be jealous of steps I took back a decade ago. Everything I said was an attempt to break through and prepare her for what is to come. I'm actually encouraging her! Read my posts again, you'll see.

It makes no difference how long one has been a member here, online, or in any other community. It makes no difference how knowledgeable they purport to be. All that matters for you is that they can support you, give you good advice, and, perhaps be more concerned with you than their own reflection.

Age can bring wisdom, wouldn't you say? If someone has learned many things over the years wouldn't it be good for them to teach others so they don't have to go through the hard times she did?

It's a shame you cannot just delete the specific posts you do not want to read, or that are just mean, but perhaps you'll be able to scroll past them now that they have shown their true colors.

You actually can "ignore" people so you don't see their posts...but I don't recommend doing so...it's counter productive in the long term. Even those we disagree on some topics with can say insightful things on other topics.

And...geez...if only you had known that you were not expressing yourself in way that was pleasing to "them..."

Hugs,
Torrey

It didn't get to the point...and the point needs to be reached, the sooner the better. Rather than dilly dallying around...deal with it as soon and as well as you can.

That's more like it Anne!!
loved the honesty, loved the getting pissed off..

A cup of coffee with a couple of transgendered women would do you a world of good..

I very much agree.

Veronica

Torrey

10-07-2011, 06:46 PM

It didn't get to the point...and the point needs to be reached, the sooner the better. Rather than dilly dallying around...deal with it as soon and as well as you can.

I really thought I was done with this. Your lack of understanding does not entitle you to belittle. It's not your place to say whether her post was adequate to meet YOUR needs. I will enjoin myself from further adjectives.

Please let it go.

Jorja

10-07-2011, 06:47 PM

Wonderful OP Anne. I enjoyed the read. So now that you have traveled the path and gotten beat up for it, I have just a few tips for you.

First, always carry your GPS with you so you can't get lost.

Second, now you know what those elastic straps on a garter belt are really for. They make a great slingshot to knock out the bright lights and to shoot those that harass you. ;)

Third, tell those that tell you , "I told you so" and "talk is cheap" to shut up. Tell them this is your journey and you will reserve the right to thank them when you discover what you need to discover.

TGMarla

10-07-2011, 09:45 PM

*Snicker!* How did I miss this thread? You just can't buy entertainment like this! Nice post, Anne! You're a treasure. And Freddy......I...uh...sorry, loss for words. Too busy laughing.

Veronica, you used to be a much nicer person. I guess that was before you decided to be a militant transexual. I'm sure you'll just quote every little sentence written, and take exception to it like you always do, but then, you're always right, aren't you?

Get a hobby.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-07-2011, 11:27 PM

From "frederique"
Thanks, Kaitlyn and Veronica, for trodding on the beautiful people with your misanthropic prose, pointless rhetoric, and non-supportive blather. What keeps you two non-beauties coming to this site, anyway? Do you get your jollies bursting little girl’s balloons and making them cry? You should be ashamed of yourselves, but I know you aren’t, and you never will be, because you don’t have the capacity to appreciate anything beautiful. I’m guessing NOBODY has ever complimented either of you on your writing, other than to say “Sod Off” in so many words, but I digress...

ouch...if this is what you guys get off on, then feel free... sticks and stones and all that..can we have a math contest instead??

the funny part is that i've lived a very rewarding and wonderful life. I'm not militant in any way..opinionated? okay, guilty.
I never said there was anything wrong with getting it all out by typing words into a computer screen..but if that's not getting it done for you, then you need to step it up..

i do alot of my work by computer , so i get to see the forum quite alot...but i spend alot of time helping real people solve real problems...i don't make fun of anyone, i don't mock people...gosh freddy you must've got beat up alot in school (i did too..).. i certainly don't tell people what to do (other than encourage them to get serious and help themselves)..

i've talked a person out of drowning herself, which was a harrowing experience...i've held hands while someone cried and cried about just being themselves, or about their life stories......
i've helped couples figure out a way to go forward and hopefully find ways to deal with the cd/tg issue....
i've had countless phone discussions and coffees helping people try to figure all this out...
I've helped raise over $1000 to aid tg youth in big cities..
i have wonderful children and a supportive and loving family..a deep support system that i earned...
i give speeches at local colleges and have done seminars for physician asst students, and so far 2 of them have decided to start careers at practices specializing in gender issues..

I'm glad for the entertainment value..
I hope Anne that you are doing this all for entertainment, because if you are not, your current fan club is going to let you down big time....

DebbieL

10-07-2011, 11:58 PM

Annie,
Thank you for your wonderful start to a wonderful thread.

Yes I've been there. For me, I knew I wanted to be a before I could talk. I was born intersexed, and if the scars are an indicator, I was probably "closed up" from being hermaphrodite.

However each choice has consequences.

My father didn't want me to be a girl because he didn't want me to suffer the way he had.

My grandfather didn't want me to go to hell.

My mother didn't want my grandfather to reject me.

My first wife didn't want her friends, parents, and kids to find out.

I didn't want to lose my job.

I didn't want to be limited to monthly visitation.

I wanted to be a leader.

But NOT being the girl of my dreams had consequences too.

Isolation as a child, reading books because I couldn't play with the girls and didn't want to get beat up by the boys.

No really close friendships because I couldn't tell them my deepest desire and my deepest secret.

I was a virgin til I as 21 because I didn't want to enjoy sex as a man.

Several lovers who couldn't please me because they didn't know my secret.

My marriage turned into platonic roommates because I couldn't be honest enough to give her a real choice.

When I tried to go back into the closet, I almost ended up in the grave. I gained almost 150 lbs, had a heart attack, as stroke, and spinal damage.

Many times, keeping the secret, and thinking that I was irreversibly male also almost killed me. Chigella, drugs, alcohol, and a Jeckyl - Miss Hyde personality that was filled with blackouts and Miss Hyde's unpredictable behavior.

By some miracle I managed to avoid AIDS, HIV, Herpes, and other STDs and drug related diseases.

I had two children I only saw every few years.

Too many consequences of NOT going after my real dreams, trying to live up to the expectations and concerns of my grandparents, parents, wives, lovers, and children.

Follow your heart, wherever it leads. Don't wake up in a hospital bed at 50+ years old wishing that you had been able to live the life you really wanted and wondering if you will be condemned to a male body for eternity.

Frédérique

10-08-2011, 01:57 AM

Many of you have “progressed” or “evolved” well beyond where I currently find myself. Thus, you have been there, done that. Was the light too bright in your world at one time? Is it too bright now? Obviously, we can choose to fully embrace ourselves, and seek to discover all that is within. But at what cost? At what sacrifice? Clearly, in all aspects of Life, it is wise to seek balance among competing or divergent interests. But how does one achieve balance in the face of the unknown? I certainly know how to balance a checkbook, but how does one balance gender?

Getting back to the OP, which I was going to respond to yesterday before I was so rudely pressed into action, I would say I have “evolved” to the point where I am completely comfortable with my crossdressing. The light was rather bright years ago, when I first stepped into the light and saw my own shadow, but it didn’t scare me, so here I am, still in position. It’s not a case of “losing” it, whatever “it” may be, rather you are gaining something all the time. You may not realize this at first, but you are constantly assimilating gender – perhaps everybody is, in their own way, but we MtF crossdressers see the profound changes before us, and these new experiences may be, at first, beyond our capacity to understand or “fold” into a lifestyle that makes sense. I have achieved balance by not forcing the issue, and letting the pieces fall where they may. Only later on did I consider what happened to me, but when things were very bright I simply walked on sunshine...

I was originally going to say “How can it possibly be too bright in the closet?” but I thought better of it... :straightface:

It makes no difference how long one has been a member here, online, or in any other community. It makes no difference how knowledgeable they purport to be. All that matters for you is that they can support you, give you good advice, and, perhaps be more concerned with you than their own reflection. It's a shame you cannot just delete the specific posts you do not want to read, or that are just mean, but perhaps you'll be able to scroll past them now that they have shown their true colors. And...geez...if only you had known that you were not expressing yourself in way that was pleasing to "them..."

Well said. I like the fact that you can edit things on this site, and simply avoid things you don’t need to read. At first, I was reluctant to use these features, but over time I begrudgingly accepted the fact that some people are not as supportive as they should be. Everyone should be allowed to express themselves in the way they see fit, and not worry about attracting unwelcome elements...

Anne has been away from the site, on hiatus for some much needed mental recuperation and re-grouping, and her return was not completely certain. That being said, she did return in a reduced capacity (for now), posting her eloquent, beautiful pieces about this “gender balance” she refers to, in the context of her own life experiences, of course. Lo and behold, the very same people who take issue with everything I try to say descended on her, and you can see what happened. This is what bothers me, and it’s indicative of the same bias AGAINST MtF crossdressers that has reared its ugly head on more occasions than I care to remember...

Anne is perfectly capable of defending herself, but if she’s going to be driven away from the site again by the usual suspects, I think it’s time to speak up and confront the bullies. Truth be told, Anne can write rings around me, and this seems to be some kind of detriment, rather than an asset, to those people who do nothing but complain about lengthy OP's. It’s a sad state of affairs, and everyone suffers from this unnecessary negativity...

Veronica, you used to be a much nicer person. I guess that was before you decided to be a militant transexual. I'm sure you'll just quote every little sentence written, and take exception to it like you always do, but then, you're always right, aren't you? Get a hobby.

I think she already has a hobby, Marla – dissection! :heehee:

Sara Jessica

10-08-2011, 07:30 AM

So much for breathing. :(

There is such an utter failure to actually read the written word that I wonder why some of us even try any longer. It's so much easier to rally around a cheerleading cry of "oh you're not being sensitive enough" as a "you go girl" mentality takes hold.

A good friend once told me that in choosing a therapist, it should be a person who challenges you. Not someone who punches your card, not a cheerleader. The same holds true when it comes to advice. That is, if honest advice is what is truly desired.

Regardless, the name calling continues and we have posts (& tangential threads) dedicated to the trashing of the entirely valid opinions of others.

Fact of the matter is that while this site may be called CD'ers.com, it caters to the entire gender spectrum, for better or worse. To that end, there are insights from other perspectives that will bleed into what is traditionally called the "CD'ers" part of this forum. This is what is being rejected here and it's really pretty pathetic because these perspectives based on real life experiences are things that can be so beneficial to Anne.

TGMarla

10-08-2011, 08:24 AM

Right you are, Sara. Right you are. However, a person with worthy advice doesn't sit upon high crowing "I told you so....!" and then commence patting herself on her own back to illustrate her prescient brilliance.

Frédérique

10-08-2011, 09:09 AM

Fact of the matter is that while this site may be called CD'ers.com, it caters to the entire gender spectrum, for better or worse. To that end, there are insights from other perspectives that will bleed into what is traditionally called the "CD'ers" part of this forum. This is what is being rejected here and it's really pretty pathetic because these perspectives based on real life experiences are things that can be so beneficial to Anne.

That may be the case, but I would never dream of going over to the TS section (for example) and espousing my intractable “beliefs” about crossdressing. Since the opposite of that scenario has apparently occurred, that would be like me, a professional artist with numerous credentials, suddenly appearing before a gaggle of Sunday painters and telling everyone they need to get serious about things! It’s all WORK, no pleasure, boys and girls, and you can stop painting pretty pictures of butterflies and flowers – it’s much more important to grind through life like some sort of human abrasive, and then pour out your bitter lessons of experience on the nearest canvas…

Let me tell you something - my “take” on crossdressing is just as valid as the next person’s take on crossdressing. The same for Marla, Sara, Anne, Veronica, Kaitlyn, Torrey and every other person on this site. With that in mind, isn’t it a bit ridiculous for a crossdresser allegedly imbued with “real life experiences” to purposely blow out the candles during our little CD party? I’ve had just as many real life experiences as the next person, but apparently they are not valid to this discussion, since I am only a mere MtF crossdresser. What’s “beneficial” to one person may not apply to another, which is why this “bleeding” from one part of the so-called gender spectrum into another causes so many heated discussions around here…

Since Anne’s OP was placed in THIS section, and aimed primarily at MtF crossdressers who feel a certain way about things, I think it’s very unfair for a disagreeable person to come along and post contrary to the original spirit of the piece. It just seems mean to me, and I’ve seen this time and time again, usually emanating from the same "superior" people. I wouldn’t expect certain individuals on this site to appreciate something a MtF crossdresser has expressed in words, but why ACT upon that and cause division via derision? I don’t get it, and I don’t feel you, Sara, should be defending these malfeasants just because you feel it may be good for Anne in the long run. This incident lies at the heart of why crossdressers are misunderstood by nearly everyone, even those who would profess support across the board, yet do the exact opposite in practice…
:straightface:

Kaitlyn Michele

10-08-2011, 09:14 AM

...i love how someone that put me on ignore, continues to post about me, and can also apparently read my mind...

Here we only have words...such as ignore...and a poster can go on and on about their delight in ignoring someone, all the while not actually ignoring them at all, not even a little bit!! Now that's sublime!

when someone is lost and confused, sometimes words help, sometimes they don't...and all experiences are valid...i don't see how ME sharing MY experience is somehow devaluing someone elses..
that feeling is coming from the other person...how many times can i say it? oh that's right i'm on ignore!!!

when you boil all this down, that's the choice we can each make...that's the civil part of the discussion i am trying to have
you can write about it AND do something about it btw...and i hope thats the direction the OP takes..

Sara Jessica

10-08-2011, 11:19 AM

Since Anne’s OP was placed in THIS section, and aimed primarily at MtF crossdressers who feel a certain way about things, I think it’s very unfair for a disagreeable person to come along and post contrary to the original spirit of the piece. It just seems mean to me, and I’ve seen this time and time again, usually emanating from the same "superior" people. I wouldn’t expect certain individuals on this site to appreciate something a MtF crossdresser has expressed in words, but why ACT upon that and cause division via derision? I don’t get it, and I don’t feel you, Sara, should be defending these malfeasants just because you feel it may be good for Anne in the long run. This incident lies at the heart of why crossdressers are misunderstood by nearly everyone, even those who would profess support across the board, yet do the exact opposite in practice…
:straightface:

So not only do we employ ignore but also segregation. Since I don't identify the same as the majority, I take this to mean my opinions, my presence, is unwelcome. Too bad, I thought I brought something to the table.

Torrey

10-08-2011, 11:24 AM

when you boil all this down, that's the choice we can each make...that's the civil part of the discussion i am trying to have
you can write about it AND do something about it btw...

Hey Kaitlyn,

You make a good point. My issue was one person telling another that their way of coping, dealing, & moving through this quagmire was wrong. All experiences are valid, but then one's experiences are not defined as the only path, right? No rant, no diatribe. There are many paths through the wood, or one may choose to blaze their own trail.

Meanness and "you're not doing this right" help no one.

Hugs,
Torrey

Nigella

10-08-2011, 11:34 AM

Closed with the agreement of the OP