Help - Self defence

[Shelly Preston]

Hi everyone

I always wondered about those things we never learned when we were younger.

Recently I received email giving me information which might help. So I siezed the opportunity.

I has signed up for a "self defence course" organised by LGBT health in Edinburgh.

Has anyone done this before and what should I expect from the course ???

[Danielle_cder]

I took Jujitsu for 8 years, does that count? What I thought it was going to be.... it defiantly was not! got my azz kicked alot by some really tough guys! But defiantly learned alot

Lol dare you to try and steal my purse:D

[Marie-Elise]

Former kung fu tournament fighter here. Got me wondering how it would be to practice in a traditional Chinese dress...hmmmm...

[kellycan27]

I took kickboxing for 3 years and i learned a lot. When your standing there in front of someone in a controlled situation.. kicking and punching and learning how to defend yourself it's pretty easy. One night in a parking garage i was set upon by a guy who was intent on raping me. It happened so fast and so violently that I had no chance to put what I had learned into practice. I was way to busy trying to fend off his blows to mount any kind of offense. He had me pinned on the hood of my car and he was punching me about the head and face. No rules, no time to get into my fighting stance. I am 5'6" and weigh 125 pounds soaking wet. he was 6'1" and weighed around 190 pounds. I was wearing a sweater, skirt and 4 inch heels, he was wearing jeans and combat boots. i got the tar beaten out of me. I learned a couple of things... The main thing was that for me the best course of self defense is situational awareness. Secondly I learned not to depend on a false sense of security that I had "thought" I had gained from learning to defend myself. The shock and the fear from the first blow disoriented me. You will go into an "automatic" defensive state, but defense and offense are two different things. By the time the adrenaline kicked in i was clearly in defensive mode, but by then it was too late. I was pretty much toast. The funny thing about adrenaline is.. it works for both the attacker and the AND the atackee. Thirdly.. I was scared shit-less... practically frozen with fear. it takes balls to stand up to someone who is intent on harming you and when you're scared to death it's not so easy. Afterward I had a lot of people say to me that they would have done this or done that. They would have killed the guy! Good luck with that! All i could do was try and cover up the best I could do. All I could hope for was that if he did rape me he would be satisfied with that and not kill me too.

Kel

[Karren H]

Good for you Shelly... I've never taken one but I always keep a hockey stick in my truck. Just in case a fight escalates into a hockey game! :).

[NicoleScott]

I always thought those courses taught you just enough to get your ass kicked.

[Marie-Elise]

I took kickboxing for 3 years and i learned a lot. When your standing there in front of someone in a controlled situation.. kicking and punching and learning how to defend yourself it's pretty easy. One night in a parking garage i was set upon by a guy who was intent on raping me. It happened so fast and so violently that I had no chance to put what I had learned into practice. I was way to busy trying to fend off his blows to mount any kind of offense. He had me pinned on the hood of my car and he was punching me about the head and face. No rules, no time to get into my fighting stance. I am 5'6" and weigh 125 pounds soaking wet. he was 6'1" and weighed around 190 pounds. I was wearing a sweater, skirt and 4 inch heels, he was wearing jeans and combat boots. i got the tar beaten out of me. I learned a couple of things... The main thing was that for me the best course of self defense is situational awareness. Secondly I learned not to depend on a false sense of security that I had "thought" I had gained from learning to defend myself. The shock and the fear from the first blow disoriented me. You will go into an "automatic" defensive state, but defense and offense are two different things. By the time the adrenaline kicked in i was clearly in defensive mode, but by then it was too late. I was pretty much toast. The funny thing about adrenaline is.. it works for both the attacker and the AND the atackee. Thirdly.. I was scared shit-less... practically frozen with fear. it takes balls to stand up to someone who is intent on harming you and when you're scared to death it's not so easy. Afterward I had a lot of people say to me that they would have done this or done that. They would have killed the guy! Good luck with that! All i could do was try and cover up the best I could do. All I could hope for was that if he did rape me he would be satisfied with that and not kill me too.

Kel

On a more serious note than my last post, I learned early not to rely on kung fu in a real fight. In that case, you do whatever inflicts pain on the other person (as often as possible) and makes them understand it is a good idea to leave you be.

Situational awareness is also crucial. Never start a fight. Always be aware of others around you. Always be aware of things around you. Always, have a plan of escape. And, perhaps most importantly, always have something that is readily at hand that is useful as a weapon.

If you are walking alone through a parking lot at night, hold your keys with the largest one facing blade out through your fingers. If you are attacked use repeatedly to puncture soft tissue (eyes, groin, etc.) very hard...with extreme prejudice.

It is also helpful to visualize what you will do and the rage and aggressiveness you will bring to bear upon your attacker. Let them know their attacking you will not be a pain free experience.

I am sorry to read about your experience.

[kellycan27]

On a more serious note than my last post, I learned early not to rely on kung fu in a real fight. In that case, you do whatever inflicts pain on the other person (as often as possible) and makes them understand it is a good idea to leave you be.

Situational awareness is also crucial. Never start a fight. Always be aware of others around you. Always be aware of things around you. Always, have a plan of escape. And, perhaps most importantly, always have something that is readily at hand that is useful as a weapon.

If you are walking alone through a parking lot at night, hold your keys with the largest one facing blade out through your fingers. If you are attacked use repeatedly to puncture soft tissue (eyes, groin, etc.) very hard...with extreme prejudice.

It is also helpful to visualize what you will do and the rage and aggressiveness you will bring to bear upon your attacker. Let them know their attacking you will not be a pain free experience.
I am sorry to read about your experience.

I admit that i did make a few mistakes.. First being NOT taking my dog which I normally do when going out alone late at night. Secondly.. Being complacent because I had been there many times before. I did toss my keys into my purse.
I didn't have time to "visualize" a dang thing. It may look good on paper, but when you're right in the mix..... I was too busy trying to keep from getting my teeth knocked out, my jaw broken, raped or in the worst case killed. I was trying to fight back as best i could. I was on my back, feet off the ground and he was standing between my legs. I scratched him and I kneed him in the ribs, it had no effect. Just as after three or four punches i wasn't really feeling them, but i knew they were doing damage. His adrenaline was pumping as hard as mine i guess. let me add that I had never been in a fight in my entire life. His rage surpassed mine by far. I could have been standing there with a baseball bat and he would have walked right through it. I am pretty sure that the thought of "receiving" a little pain for his efforts would have meant very little to him.

[sissystephanie]

I learned self defense when I was in the Navy. Sure it was a long time ago, but I still know many ways to disable or even kill someone. I guess that is why none of my male friends ever mess with me!! Some of them already know what I can do!!

Over my many years as a CD, I have walked in some dark places where I probably should not have been dressed enfemme. But I have never been bothered more than once. Because I make sure that the person who tries to attack me knows he made a big mistake!!

[Marie-Elise]

I admit that i did make a few mistakes.. First being NOT taking my dog which I normally do when going out alone late at night. Secondly.. Being complacent because I had been there many times before. I did toss my keys into my purse.
I didn't have time to "visualize" a dang thing. It may look good on paper, but when you're right in the mix..... I was too busy trying to keep from getting my teeth knocked out, my jaw broken, raped or in the worst case killed. I was trying to fight back as best i could. I was on my back, feet off the ground and he was standing between my legs. I scratched him and I kneed him in the ribs, it had no effect. Just as after three or four punches i wasn't really feeling them, but i knew they were doing damage. His adrenaline was pumping as hard as mine i guess. let me add that I had never been in a fight in my entire life.

Again, I empathize. I just meant visualize before anything ever happens. I agree with you: in the thick of it, visualization is impossible and useless. Be well.

[kellycan27]

Again, I empathize. I just meant visualize before anything ever happens. I agree with you: in the thick of it, visualization is impossible and useless. Be well.

I totally get what you're saying what I meant was: When you're up to your ass in alligators it's hard to remember that your intention was to drain the swamp.:heehee:

Kel

[DonniDarkness]

what should I expect from the course ???

Most of it will involve how to protect yourself from situations that place you in danger. Like the girls above said, When the worst happens there is little time to react.

The best tool you have for self defense is awareness. The police courses that i went to as a kid taught mostly how to keep yourself out of a dangerous situation, and if you find yourself in danger what you should do first.
The classes teach that, along with some physical defense techniques. But very little. Most of the physical techniques involve breaking someones grip long enough to RUN for help. Also things like how to use your pepper spray and handheld tazer.

-Donni-

[Debglam]

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

The importance of these two words cannot be overstated! It doesn't matter how big, tough, well trained or well armed you are, if you can avoid a situation, that is almost always the best option to choose. There is NO shame in getting the hell out of an area fast when that little voice is hollering at you!

Thank you for sharing a very scary story Kelly.

[suzy1]

I think Kel [Kellycan27] has highlighted a very important point.
There are so meny people including women that think just because they have had some lessons in self defence they will fight off an attacker. They are so wrong!
I know a man that’s really strong and able to defend himself.
So when three 14 year olds threatened him he was not worried about it.
He ended up in hospital!
There is only one really good way of defending yourself, don’t get into the situation in the first place.
And if you are a good runner then that’s plan B.

Shelly, you are wasting your time and money.


SUZY

[Debglam]

One additional point:

I mentioned that "little voice" or feeling we all have when something isn't right. You HAVE to learn to listen to it. Humans have the ability, like any other animal, to sense danger. We have suppressed this over the ages but I'm sure we have all experienced this feeling at one time or another. It is legitimate, but even if you are wrong the consequences are far better than ignoring it!

Stay Safe Friends!
Debby

[kellycan27]

I am not saying that people shouldn't bother with taking self defense courses, but rather not to let the fact that they did lull them into a false sense of security. I am sure that there are situations where they could very well come in handy.

[Toni Citara]

Situational awareness is the most important component to self preservation. It doesn't matter if a person carries a concealed weapon or martial arts, all the training and rounds put down the range are useless without the mind-set to use those skills and the awareness to know something is going down - and avoid the bad scene! Bruce Lee is perhaps the greatest martial artist ever, but he is no match for 8 or 10 meth-head gang-bangers with guns. Sorry, but he would get killed. But, Bruce is aware enough to know how to avoid a bad scene, as are many people that live with their guard up. As a bit of background, I didn't have my "growth spurt" until I was 19, and at that time I jumped from a 5'7" 140# skinny minny... in less than 14 months I was 5'11" and 180#, and because I loved martial arts films I started with karate, then tae kwon do, then hapkido. No matter how much I worked out, and practiced, every instructor I had made it clear - if you think you're the biggest dog in the yard, you're gonna get your butt kicked.

Rule #1 is - don't go into a dangerous place. Rule #2 is - - see Rule #1.

I feel really bad that KellyCan27 went through what happened, and I can relate to the situation of having a decreased awareness, it happened to me twice. The first time was two guys with a knife during daylight outside a library; the second time was three guys in the parking lot of a night club I dj'd at.

[BrookCD]

First off is in a fight for you life there is no such thing as fighting dirty. Kick, grab, bite, even stab anything you can.

Second is mind set. If you get in a situation where you have to fight for your life you have to get in the mind set of "IM GONNA WIN".

Third is carry some basic weapons. I'm not talking a gun or knife ( which I carry both on a regular basis ) but things as simple as a good flashlight and a pen. In tactical speak a small flashlight with at least 65 lumes is preferred for self defense. These can be bought at just about any mega store ( wal-mart, meijer, and target) and are about the size of a roll of quarters. The light is enough to temporary blind an assailant and can also be used as a mini kubaton (strike at the temple ). You will also find that even during the day a little light can come in handy when you get in a low light situation. A simple Bic pen can be a very effective weapon against attack. It sounds nasty but bury that sucker in some ones eye and they are out of the fight.

Finally as many have said trust your gut. If it does not feel right get out and get out quick. There is no shame in retreat in this kind of situation.

[Danielle_cder]

Good for you Shelly... I've never taken one but I always keep a hockey stick in my truck. Just in case a fight escalates into a hockey game! :).

Oh Karren so right, I always go into the corners planning to hit the defenseman before he hits me total shocker lol

[DebbieL]

Shelly,
If this course is what I think it is, it's a really great course. I learned it as "Fag-Jitzu". The key is that this course deals with both the martial arts techniques, but also techniques that protect you legally. I've only ever needed it once, and even that was not in an actual life-or-death situation (but I didn't know that at the time). The more important thing is that the course will teach you how to be and look more confident which makes you less likely to be a victim.

They can also teach you tricks that will help you get a conviction if you are assaulted and lose control of the situation (overpowered by several people). Little tips like:

Never make a fist - the heel of you hand is larger than any bone in the skull.

Put your hands up next to your ears, with your wrists back and fingers limp. It will LOOK helpless, but if you have to strike, you get the maximum force in the shortest distance, and looking helpless will bring the attacker closer - in range than if you were to make fists or flat hands like in karate. You have to fight like you have only one shot, and you have to make it significant. A good hit, even badly placed, from that position will often make the attacker(s) think twice before coming close again.

Keeping your fingers loose and relaxed will cause additional damage, especially if you have longer fingernails.

You don't have to win the fight, you just need to mark him so that he can be identified by the distinguishing marks you have given him. The DNA under your fingernails will help get a conviction.

From the arms to ears position, say loudly - "Please don't hurt me" - which gives you witnesses who realize you are feeling threatened. If he moves forward after that, it's at least 3rd degree assault.

There are about 30 other very useful techniques and methods, all designed specifically to help GLBT people from attacks by homophobes and other potentially dangerous types.

The best part is that it's something that can be taught in a few hours and/or over just a few weeks. Much easier than having to spend years getting your black-belt. In addition, because it's not formally recognized, you don't have to register your training with the state. Some states consider those who have achieved a certain rank to be wielding deadly weapons, and can be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon of they use them for attack.

Good luck in the course.

[Stacey Summer]

I studied several disciplines over a number of years and the one thing I learned is that unless there is some precursor event or warning you are never prepared for a fight. If someone attacks you with no warning there is little you can do. However, and somewhat contrary to my previous statement, there are signs you can pick up that should set off warning bells. Signs you will not pick up from a weekly course in basic martial arts of self-defense.

These signs include stance, how the people around you are standing. Similarly, body language is a big indicator, this includes the stance but also how they're moving, the looks they're giving you etc. The face is one of the biggest indicators, thsoe who are contemplating violence will be pale. For some reason the rush of adrenaline draws the blood away from the skin.

If you have studied and trained extensively in martial arts you will know these signs instinctively and your body will react with responses it is trained to use, also your body will always be in balance. I can remember a fair few instances where my body has reacted to an incoming blow without any concious thought. This is called muscle memory. The move to block or avoid the blow will have been drilled into you constantly and at that point your body will react before your concious brain has fully realised what is happening.

[eluuzion]

I encounter this issue in the regular course of my business. So I have adopted a pretty firm set of beliefs about what the term “self-defense” represents.

"Self-Defense" typically triggers images of ninjas, Bruce Lee and aerobatic assaults that cripple the ruthless gang that attacked you in some dark alley. For others, it is learning how to impress your girlfriend & friends at a bar, by kicking the life out of the wise-guy in the pool room that steals your quarters.

The first step in learning "self-defense" is to understand what it is NOT. It is not about a martial arts belt degree or a six-week class at your local YMCA. That is akin to installing locks and alarms on windows and believing you have a "security system" that will keep you safe at night. The reality is that your installation only instilled you with a false sense of "security".

I started Tae Kwon Do when I was 8 years old and was still training well into my early 20’s. I also trained for 3 years with my military academy roommate, who was kick-boxing champ from the tough streets of Cincinnati (and even had his own gold satin robe! lol). Do I feel invincible? Never. Do I know “self-defense”? No, I have martial arts skills, which is only a small part of understanding self-defense to a point of having any realistic expectation of protecting yourself against violence.

Personal safety and asset security is not about learning to shoot/carry guns or break bricks. Carrying a weapon is one thing. Pointing it at another human being and actually being able to pull the trigger requires a specific mindset that few people will ever understand until they find themselves faced with making that choice in a real life situation. Most victims will hesitate or freeze and the street thug knows it. The street thug will not.

Pit your self-defense training against a thug’s street skills and you will lose. They only look stupid, and are...but they know how to hurt/kill you and chances are good that it won’t be their first time...not by a long shot. They have perfected street strategies and fighting skills that you never imagined even existed, or learned how to defend yourself against in self-defense training courses.

“Self-Defense” is about learning the psychological/physical cycles of violence and creation of “opportunity” that enables violence. (factors/events/ that must fall into place in order for you to be identified as a target). Understanding the stages, motivation and cycles, avoiding steps that empower it and building several different “layers” that inhibit criminal activity is what effective self-defense is all about. It will not put a stop to violence and criminal activity. You simply pay attention to your surrounding and conduct yourself in a manner which convinces the thugs that their chances for success will increase significantly if they make somebody else their target.

I do believe learning how to physically protect yourself is time and money well spent. I trained my daughter well, even though she thought it was a little “over the top” at the time. She has recently thanked me, now that she is off to college and on her own.

As usual, we are back to trying to become the “smallest fish in the fishbowl”...and staying that way.:D

:love:

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Everyone

I pretty much expect them to tell us that avoiding getting into a dangerous situation is the best policy. Unfortunately there are times when its not always that easy. Running might help if you are quick enough and have the right footwear. I could at least try to run in trainers, but in heels I would probably break my ankle. If if think it would work I would even try bare feet. A have a personal alarm which might buy me a few precious seconds.

I do hope I never need to fight anyone off.

Thanks for all the comments stories and words of advice

[Toni Citara]

Shelly, perhaps you can answer this question... from what I've read in forums on the interwebz dedicated to self-defense and firearms, it seems that a person in the UK that beats the ever loving shit out of some Yob or Thug is more likely to go to jail than the criminal, is this true? I've read way too many examples of people in the UK, (mainly England, not sure about the rest of the UK, which is why I'm asking), where somebody will smack the hell out of a criminal with a broom handle, cricket bat, etc., and the person that is the "victim" of the crime is charged with assault/battery and spends time in jail while the actual "criminal" goes free.

I know a lot of people around the world think that people in the USA walk around with guns strapped on our hip ready at the drop of a hat to start shooting. This isn't true. Most of us don't have a six-shooter strapped on our hip. Please tell me what you've been led to believe about the gun-toting red-neck Yanks in this regard. Thanks!!

[Patty B.]

Kelly unless you've been exposed to that type of situation before you've no idea how you'll react. It
s similar to a bar fight, it just explodes in your face and I dont think any training is of much use because this happens so fast like what you experienced. Just pay attention to your surroundings and try not to get careless like you described and take care.

[Patty B.]

Kelly I dont think any self defense training is always useful, though it is a good idea to take a course. But your experience just explodes in your face, the only thing I can possibly compare it to is a bar fight, it happens in the blink of an eye and when you're fighting for your life its a whole other experience, unless you've been through it before. The best you can do is not get careless like you described and be aware of your surroundings.

[eluuzion]

greetings future ninjas...:heehee:

I forgot to share something...a website with some free text technical instruction that is actually done well.

There are many approaches to "self defense". Everybody has their own opinion regarding the best overall safety strategy,techniques,do's and do not's,importance, etc. Common sense goes a long way on most issues and logic suggests that any approach is better than relying on "luck", as many seem to.:heehee:

I believe "self-defense" is one of those areas that fits into the "learning a few things well, instead of trying to become an expert" category", in most cases. That is the path I took with my daughter. (Taught her a few valuable techniques before the interest went south, then hope she dates a football player, lol)

There are lots of places around the net offering some text instructions. Most are pretty lame or bait to lure you into spending money. But there are still a few around where you can pick up some good instruction for free. Here is one of the best I have found. It is a teen site but the information is universal...
for what it is worth...here ya' go...

http://www.bodyteen.com/sd.html


I do think "courses" have value if you have the discipline & money. Have fun with yours, Shelly:hugs:

So put on your skin tight leotards and red capes and let's not allow those malevolent messengers of malfeasance get our panties in a bunch... :heehee::D:heehee:

:love:

[insearchofme]

I used to be a college wrestling coach. If the MMA gad been around I would have been in it. That being said I have never had a physical confrontation. Knowing that you can protect yourself gives you a lot of confidence, with that confidence you can project an attitude that will help you avoid confrontations. It is always better to walk away.

Now if it is unavoidable, a random attack, you know that can protect yourself.

[Sophiewouldbenice]

I did Karate for many years and I am practicingTaekwondo since 4 years - I would say just a course will probably not help and only give you a wrong feeling of savety. Your body has to learn movements and reactions by repeating them again and again, and for self-defence you even have to train fighting with different opponents and often. I wonder, if I would win a fight on the street and even then I would not be sure if I would go to far. Besides fighting in high heels and a narrow dress gives you some disadvantages. Also having all your belongings in a purse and not in your trouser pockets give you somehow the need or the desire to hold it while fighting ^^, so also not good.

Don't know about your attitude, if you are nice, gentle and so on it may be not the best to train this. I mean getting hurt is part of the training, otherwise I would be surprised if the training has any effect on a street fight.