Crossdressing intimidates women?

[Windy]

I've expressed my desire to be look like a girl before, but it’s always met with a...lukewarm response. It feels like the only way I could make some women (and possibly my best friend) I know totally happy about my cross-dressing is for me to someone look "worse" than them normally. I'm sorry, but if I want to look like a woman then I will shave my legs and practice my makeup, or do whatever it takes.

My best friend in particular is a girl and suffers from bad self confidence issues about her body, mostly because her family has a large control over her life. She imagines that she's ugly (not true at all!) and not at all girly (which is true, but its also the opposite of what everyone seems to tell her to be :/) and in her own words I do make her feel "awkward" sometimes when she sees me dressed up, and she usually dresses in jeans and hoodies.

Of course, she's my best friend because she…is, not because she’s a girl, and I...don't crossdress just to make someone feel uncomfortable, but what can I do to make a girl in particular feel as if I'm not "taking their privaleges away"?

[Kate Simmons]

Basically take an interest in them personally Hon. Then the ice will thaw and you can talk girl talk.:)

[Sophie86]

You can't control how other people react. If you're a good friend, that should be enough, but everyone's got their own issues. If she really can't handle that side of you, then you may have to put up a wall between her and that part of your life.

[Jackiefl]

I may be wrong but i think there was a thread about this subject posted before. Personally i cannot think of a reason how i could ever intimidate a real female

[wish4naught]

Sadly, I agree with sophie, there might not be anything that can be done. My most recent ex and I had the same problem as your friend. As my girlfriend she wanted to help me explore my 'hobby' of sorts but at the same time it made her uncomfortable which made it less desirable for me. She mentioned it made her insecurities worse, and said that it bothered her that I played the part better than she did. In the end nothing I could do or say made it easier for her. If you're lucky over time your friend will grow used to it and it won't make her feel awkward. For me it was the opposite, the more comfortable I became the more threatened she was. Also, it's not a privilege as much as self expression. You have the same rights to use make up/clothing/etc as anyone else does. It's a choice to use it.

[Nikki A.]

My wife had the same insecurities and it is a tough barrier to break. Keep being a good friend and hope she comes aound.

[giuseppina]

...
My best friend in particular is a girl and suffers from bad self confidence issues about her body, mostly because her family has a large control over her life.

...

Of course, she's my best friend because she…is, not because she’s a girl, and I...don't crossdress just to make someone feel uncomfortable, but what can I do to make a girl in particular feel as if I'm not "taking their privaleges away"?

I'm no expert in diplomacy, but perhaps encouraging her to find a way to stop her family from controlling her so much will help both of you. This isn't about taking privileges away. It's telling your friend it's OK to disagree with other family members. If there are repercussions from her family over this, that says something about them, not your friend.

[Ellyn]

If I had a friend like her, I would ask her to go shopping together, and get her into some nice clothes, and compliment her on her new looks. Maybe that way you can boost her self image and her confidance. Maybe even get her to do some trial makeup if you have a place that offers a smple makeover. Get her feeling "girley" because that us what it is about, and then she should see what a bit of effort can do, and begin to appreciate what you are doing.

[ReineD]

It feels like the only way I could make some women (and possibly my best friend) I know totally happy about my cross-dressing is for me to someone look "worse" than them normally. I'm sorry, but if I want to look like a woman then I will shave my legs and practice my makeup, or do whatever it takes.

With all due respect, it could be that you're projecting your own attitudes or fears onto your friend. I know of no GGs who feel threatened by the CDing, even though frequently GGs will say things like, "Oh, I'm so jealous of your legs, or weight, or clothes, etc". The thing is, GGs say that about other GGs who are skinnier or have nicer legs or clothes than they do. :p

Unfortunately, women from a young age are pelted with an impossibly high standard of ideal feminine beauty by the media, and it all begins with the unrealistic body proportions of the Barbie doll. I know it sounds silly, but when you're a woman and you have less than the ideal body, and you compare yourself to the constant barrage of magazine covers, ads, actresses on TV and in the movies, models, etc ... this is a very strong message that is difficult to ignore. There is no way that men are subjected to anything remotely close to this.

My point is, that if your GG friend has a poor body image, it likely has nothing to do with you and you should not take responsibility for it. She may feel unhappy with herself that a guy can look better than she does if he is skinnier (but this is not you, it is her unrealistic expectations based on the media ideal), so what I tell such women who come here, is to imagine themselves putting as much effort into their makeup, clothes, grooming, hair, corsets, bust enhancements, beautiful clothes, etc, and then stand side by side with the CD in front of a mirror and make a comparison.

This usually takes care of it. :)


Edit I've read my post again and it comes off as being a little brusque. I apologize for this. I want to make clear that CDs can be beautiful too. I'm not saying there's no way a CD will ever compare with a GG if we level out the playing field. I'm saying that both can be beautiful, just with different styles and looks. It doesn't have to be a competition. :hugs:

[LeaP]

Reine, I can now say I've been here long enough ...

Lea

[Rachel Morley]

Unfortunately, women from a young age are pelted with an impossibly high standard of ideal feminine beauty by the media, and it all begins with the unrealistic body proportions of the Barbie doll. I know it sounds silly, but when you're a woman and you have less than the ideal body, and you compare yourself to the constant barrage of magazine covers, ads, actresses on TV and in the movies, models, etc ... this is a very strong message that is difficult to ignore. There is no way that men are subjected to anything remotely close to this.

That's similar what I was going to say ... but coming from you it sounds so much better! :D

[J'lyn GG]

My wife had the same insecurities and it is a tough barrier to break. Keep being a good friend and hope she comes aound.

I had body insecurities, as well. My husband just kept being the caring and 'sensitive to my feelings' husband he has always been. That's what was needed. Maybe its discomfort, instead of intimidation. The two are different, but are often interchaged for each other.

[ReineD]

Reine, I can now say I've been here long enough ...

Lea

... yes, now you have. :)

[kimdl93]

Having encountered many women in the real world while en femme, I can say that not one yet has been intimidated by me. I know that many women have insecurities about the way they look - but thats something internal to them. Whether its my wife or a GG friend, a female co-worker , I'd like to think its incumbent upon me, as it is with each of us as humans (gender stuff aside) to be sensitive and considerate of others issues and insecurities.

[Patty B.]

ReineD how do you do this all the time, you have such an eye for this.

[CallieH]

Reine said it best there. Your friend is projecting her insecurities via you, and you need to build on that relationship by helping her improve her self image. Just by being sensitive to her feelings and discussing them (when she's ready) you can go a long way in being a good friend to her.

[Daphne Renee]

OK here is my 2 cents worth.. (and that maybe over valuing my advice :) You should try to look your best especially if that makes you happy. Maybe there is a way you can make her feel better about herself. Perhaps you could both go out and get a makeover or if thats too much maybe just a mani/pedi.. It may not be easy to try and get her to feel a little better about herself but I would almost bet that a kind gesture would not go unnoticed.

[Tina B.]

I agree with the rest, as usual listen to Reine! But Reine, men do have a similar thing going on, not as bad, I agree, but similar. I was a skinny kid, and no matter what I tried, I was never going to have 6 pack abs, or be a football hero, so I read books and became a radical instead.
Tina B.

[Chickhe]

I think it is pretty common for females to feel that way. However, you need to not let it impact your desire to look good. When your friend makes a comparison to you, what you should do is laugh at her... for example, 'your legs look better than mine!' ...laugh and say don't be rediculous, there is no way my skinny legs could ever compate with yours!...and just shake your head and say...sometimes I think you are nuts... gets her thinking that it is crazy for her to be so insecure. The other thing you can do is use it to your advantage...go get a makeover for both of you and she will surely look the best!

[heel_addict]

Well, since she is not ugly and is average or above, this means she's got some potential. As weird as it sounds, maybe you could teach her some things, how to take care of herself. Maybe start off by inviting her over to your place and give her a complete makeover (I assume from what I've read so far that you've got some experience with makeup and cosmetics in general). She'll look pretty and you should tell her that and insist, start to boost her confidence a little. Oh yeah, you should take her shopping for nice feminine clothes first, where YOU get to decide what she gets! You know, nice flimsy sexy dresses, high heels, accessories etc. She'll love you for that and she'll get over her insecurities and consequently her "problem" with you being more girly and pretty and dressed up. That's two birds with one catch.

P.S. I've met a girl just like the one you describe. For a few girls, femininity doesn't come naturally. So, this is something that someone's got to help her acquire! Luckily, though you're not a girl, you've got that femininity in you (just like me) so you should be that someone who teaches her how to be, look, behave and walk like a lady.

[ReineD]

But Reine, men do have a similar thing going on, not as bad, I agree, but similar.

Sure, I can see where a guy might feel bad if he's not as muscular or perhaps as tall as the next guy. But I have a feeling that men (generally) get over this more easily than women. They focus on or develop other aspects of themselves, maybe. I think it's accurate to say that generally, women are more insecure about their looks than men. This is a broad statement, but traditionally, women have been sought after for their looks whereas men have been prized for their accomplishments ... although this is changing slowly.


For a few girls, femininity doesn't come naturally.

I think you're using the wrong term. Femininity is natural to women since, well, we're born female. :) You're referring to a desire to conform to society's construct (mostly informed by the media), of an idealized femininity that can only be achieved by adorning oneself. Not all women fall for this, but it doesn't mean they are not feminine. :D

I think it is more accurate to say that for a few girls (I'd say more than a few ... I'm one of them :)), the desire to achieve a certain level of adornment is not a priority, like it is for many CDs.

[Presh GG]

I'm sorry you view your friendship as a contest.

When my s/o and I go out sometimes she may be cute to my beautiful and sometimes I may be the cute to her beautiful , but it's never a contest.

What has led you to believe she is jealous ?

Presh GG

[heel_addict]

I think you're using the wrong term. Femininity is natural to women since, well, we're born female. :) You're referring to a desire to conform to society's construct (mostly informed by the media), of an idealized femininity that can only be achieved by adorning oneself. Not all women fall for this, but it doesn't mean they are not feminine. :D

I think it is more accurate to say that for a few girls (I'd say more than a few ... I'm one of them :)), the desire to achieve a certain level of adornment is not a priority, like it is for many CDs.

When I say "femininity" I mean how closely a certain female resembles the "ideal female" in pretty much everything she does. The way she looks, the way she walks or moves or talks or laughs or looks at you. Characteristics that have come to be tagged as "lady-like". So, from my point of view, no, not all women have a natural femininity. I've come across many women that move or talk or walk like a man or at least in a more masculine than feminine way. I wouldn't call these gals feminine, just because they were born females.

P.S. I think you just give a different meaning to the word "femininity", hence the difference in our opinions, isn't it so?

[susan54]

I think Reine has hit the nail on the head here. Men can hardly imagine the impact on someone's confidence of this bombardment of perfect female images (courtesy of Photoshop and the airbrush). Woemn often highlight imperfections in themselves that men do not notice (how many men complain about their partner's cellulite or her big bum?). When a man puts on a dress and looks in the mirror he has none of this mental baggage, so we cross-dressers are effectively cherry picking aspects of womanliness. Because we can. I have had women look at me and say "That's not fair" and (like many men) I have better legs than many women. Big deal - it is all image, and women are so much more than this. I have a friend who is absolutely lovely but she gets distressed about her weight and how she looks, and I get distressed that she get so upset about this, because she not only looks fabulous, the woman she is, is fabulous. A man crossdressed as a woman is still a man - even if the illusion is impressive it is still an illlusion. The real thing need not be intimidated by an imitation version, and I am sure they are not.

[ReineD]

So, from my point of view, no, not all women have a natural femininity. I've come across many women that move or talk or walk like a man or at least in a more masculine than feminine way. I wouldn't call these gals feminine, just because they were born females.

It is true, there is a wide range of feminine or masculine energy within each gender. Some women will have more angular features, and a more compact build than others for example, while some men will not have square jaws and well chiseled faces compared to their friends. But, if you compare a masculine-energy female (as she compares to a girly-girl type), to a feminine-energy male (as he compares to a he-man type), the female will still be more feminine than the male. In other words, you will know which is the female and which is the male.

This is why I have difficulty with the concept that some women are not feminine. They are feminine compared to men, even if they are less feminine than the girly-girl types. Generally speaking.

[virginia522]

I think this is pretty funny. :D I am in no way intimidated by crossdressers, and I don't know of any woman who is. I haven't looked at anyone on this website and felt jealous of the way they looked.

[Stephenie S]

Crossdressers do NOT intimidate women by their dressing.

MEN intimidate women. Unfortunately that's a given in this society. But to think that you can look SO good that you will intimidate a women by your looks is actually kinda funny. And, BTW, a fairly typical male conceit.

S

[ReineD]

Woemn often highlight imperfections in themselves that men do not notice (how many men complain about their partner's cellulite or her big bum?). When a man puts on a dress and looks in the mirror he has none of this mental baggage, so we cross-dressers are effectively cherry picking aspects of womanliness. Because we can.

This is a great point. How many women feel distressed when they feel their bodies, facial features, or hair don't measure up? They may not admit this to everyone, but their husbands and best girlfriends sure hear about it.



I have a friend who is absolutely lovely but she gets distressed about her weight and how she looks, and I get distressed that she get so upset about this, because she not only looks fabulous, the woman she is, is fabulous.

To be honest, I feel the same way and I'm not proud to admit it. When I look in the mirror sometimes I see all the flaws especially now that I'm aging, even though my SO assures me he thinks I look good. I appreciate my SO's sentiments, but privately I still have that small nagging voice that comes from years of conditioning, telling me I am flawed. This is not debilitating for me, but it is there nonetheless and on days when I feel particularly insecure about other aspects of my life, it comes to the surface.

I greatly admire women who are self-confident enough to love themselves just as they are, cellulite, wrinkles, and all, but I imagine that even the most confident woman will have a bad day once in awhile.

[Babeba]

I don't think that it is intimidation that your friend is feeling. Perhaps because it's all new to her she's not sure how to react to you - but I'll bet dollars to donuts it's not because she feels like you are more of a woman than she is. Of course the things that happen to us will affect how we see other people and our worldviews, so it is possible her family life plays some small role in how she responds to you - but that's more a broad based than a personal thing, and I don't think she is conscious of it.

[Sophie86]

My wife and I met some friends at a masquerade party a couple of weekends ago. I was wearing the outfit in my avatar. When one of our GG friends joined us at our table, the first words out of her mouth to me were: "Bitch, you look better than I do!"

She said it with humor, and I don't think she lost any sleep over it, but I find it significant that that's the way she chose to compliment me. Not, "Oh wow! You look great!" but "Bitch, you look better than I do!" Her first thought was to compare how she looked with how I looked.

I don't think it's unique to women to compare themselves to other people; guys do it too. But if you listed the things that guys compare with other guys, looks would be somewhere in the middle of the top ten, while with most women it's #1, or at least #2. When they compliment each other, it often takes the form: "You have such pretty X. I'm so jealous." Or: "You're so thin. I hate you." With the majority of women, I imagine that only goes so deep. It's something they say, but it doesn't really bother them that much.

I don't think it's a "male conceit," though, to say that there are some women are bothered a lot more by feelings of inferiority compared to other women. Nor is it far fetched to say that such women would be bothered by seeing a man who makes a more attractive woman than they do.

A lot of CDs report getting comments from women that suggest that the woman is envious. It's possible that most of those comments are of the first sort--just a way of giving a compliment that is typical of women, but doesn't mean that the woman is losing any sleep over the comparison. It's unlikely that all of them are of that sort though. The OP said that the girl felt awkward around him, because of her self-esteem issues. If you look at her avatar photo, she's drop dead gorgeous, so it seems to me like it's at least within the realm of possibility.

So my question is: Why are some folks just dismissing what she says as if it's impossible?

And not just that, but slapping her across the back of the head with the fact that she's really a he?

[ReineD]

The OP said that the girl felt awkward around him, because of her self-esteem issues. If you look at her avatar photo, she's drop dead gorgeous, so it seems to me like it's at least within the realm of possibility.

So my question is: Why are some folks just dismissing what she says as if it's impossible?

And not just that, but slapping her across the back of the head with the fact that she's really a he?

When I answered Windy's question I was addressing the rather general statement she made that she feels the only way some women will accept her is if she looks worse than they do. I imagine that many people responding to this thread were also speaking generally, since this is how the OP was framed.

Also, the idea that women are jealous of a CDer's looks is a common theme at cd.com and I'm guessing that members who've read other such threads are keeping this in mind when responding here.


It feels like the only way I could make some women (and possibly my best friend) I know totally happy about my cross-dressing is for me to someone look "worse" than them normally. I'm sorry, but if I want to look like a woman then I will shave my legs and practice my makeup, or do whatever it takes.

[Aprilrain]

Crossdressing intimidates women?

NO, not this woman. Frankly I think if your friend is insecure with your dressing that is her hang up. Not everyone can get over gender stereotypes. I find this especially amusing amongst woman who have such a wide range of expression available to them. I could understand if she were not interested in dating a CDer thats an attraction thing but it sounds like you are just friends so............IDK she can just get over it!

[Amanda22]

I have never had this problem. Perhaps it's the way I look. I'm glad though, not to have experienced another type of negative reaction.

[Sophie86]

When I answered Windy's question I was addressing the rather general statement she made that she feels the only way some women will accept her is if she looks worse than they do. I imagine that many people responding to this thread were also speaking generally, since this is how the OP was framed.

So you acknowledge that she could be right in her friend's case? That is, that her friend could be uncomfortable being around her due to feelings of insecurity and low self-esteem?

I apologize in advance if you've answered that question somewhere above. I was actually responding to other more recent comments, particularly this one (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?161557-Crossdressing-intimidates-women&p=2623843&viewfull=1#post2623843), which is not only insulting, but blatantly false. It's not a "typical male conceit," because I've also heard women say that being beautiful can cause problems for them. They claim that it intimidates men and makes other women stand-offish.

[BRANDYJ]

I think anyone, male or female, can be intimidated by a crossdresser. Many of us are uncomfortable around others that dress, act or are otherwise different from what we see as the norm. Not much different then some people act around handicapped people.

[prene]

I have had that comment come from my gg friends a few times also.

I tell them if you want to wear forms and a corset you can have these curves.

Both of my gg friends tell me the corset is too unconfortable and they would hate to have breasts that big. LOL.

We all compare .... I do with every gg I see. LOL

[Jessica86]

when you're a woman and you have less than the ideal body, and you compare yourself to the constant barrage of magazine covers, ads, actresses on TV and in the movies, models, etc ... this is a very strong message that is difficult to ignore. There is no way that men are subjected to anything remotely close to this.


What about....CDs? Like me? I want a body like Angelina Jolie in her Tomb Raider days.....:heehee:...but I know I will never be that hot....:daydreaming:

[Stephenie S]

I don't think it's a "male conceit," though, to say that there are some women are bothered a lot more by feelings of inferiority compared to other women.


Ahh, but you're a dude. Sorry.

S

[Sophie86]

I don't think it's a "male conceit," though, to say that there are some women are bothered a lot more by feelings of inferiority compared to other women.


Ahh, but you're a dude. Sorry.

S

:roflmao:

That's hilarious.