Painful bitting my tounge

[L0vleyme]

I just felt the need to share. This weekend I was visiting my futur in-laws. My (supportive) gf went shopping with her mom, so Her brother in law and I where helping farm. In the truck with her dad and brother in law.. We passes by a house that happened to belong to a TG. So began the "he-she" and "it"comments. I felt horrible and was on the verge of crying, but managed to fake a smile on my face with the occasional chuckle. Any coming out of any extent or attempts to defend the neighbor would have been worthless. I haven't felt this horrible about having to remain quiet in a long time. They had no idea that they where making fun of me at the same time they where making fun of this individual.

[Eryn]

This is your potential FIL, not your father. You're an adult. You don't need to conform to his bigoted opinion. In fact, you could simply ask him "What did this person do to you to inspire your hatred? Make him justify what he spews.

[larry]

Ouch--Not good to hear from your future in-laws. Best of luck..

[DanaR]

Hopefully after you get married, you won't have to deal or be around your in-laws very much. Sometimes there can be a real problems with families. It's sad that this happened to you. Best of luck.

[SheriM]

Good luck with your future inlaws. I would say that it is best not to come out to them.

[LeaP]

You don't choose your in-laws, they come with wlth the package. Moreover, it's probable that you and your SO will disagree with them on any number of things over the years. While a mild comment like "really? I have no problem with that" might be justified, there isn't much point in taking it further for the time being. You can't convince them against their will, and coming out now is more likely to result in viewing you as a mistake for your GF's future.

Have some fun with it - "I dunno, man, you might stay a lot cooler in the field with short-shorts, a midi top, and a sun hat"!

Let it go and look for a more receptive time, preferably one-on-one.

I understand biting the tongue - there was an office conversation about "tranny hookers" the other day (which also harks back to a recent thread on the word's popular usage). But what's the use of bringing up an educational point when the leverage starts with such a negative? Again, best to look for a better opening - one that doesn't start with a correction.

Lea

[kimdl93]

I know it was difficult. The odd thing is that people just assume its ok to be bigoted and to express that bigotry. Obviously, it never occurred to your fiance's brother in law that anyone might have a loved one who is TG, or conceivably be TG themselves. Of course, we don't know what might also be lurking in this guy's closet.

[linda allen]

I know it was difficult. The odd thing is that people just assume its ok to be bigoted and to express that bigotry. Obviously, it never occurred to your fiance's brother in law that anyone might have a loved one who is TG, or conceivably be TG themselves. Of course, we don't know what might also be lurking in this guy's closet.

Bigots don't think about others. And they often either don't realize they are bigots, or they are proud to be bigots, just like some folks are proud to be ignorant.

I run into this on other forums on other subjects where people are complaining that all cops are corrupt or that black or Hispanic people are stupid. They are too ignorant (or proud of that ignorance) to realize that they cannot see who is reading their posts.

There's no way I would come out to my FIL. I can't talk to him about anything without it turning into an argument. He is 100% right about everything and will be until the day he dies.

[Toni Citara]

Good advice, Eryn. I've actually done this very thing to some people, and after they stumble for words, they eventually say it is a "sin" and "against Nature", blah blah blah. The bible also says it is a sin for a woman to not have her hair covered, etc. Picking and choosing which verses in a book written by men, and edited by men, does not make it any more accurate than a hollywood script. I'm not saying there wasn't some divine inspiration, but I also believe people that "see the Virgin Mary" etc., are mentally unstable and need psychotropic meds to balance their life.


This is your potential FIL, not your father. You're an adult. You don't need to conform to his bigoted opinion. In fact, you could simply ask him "What did this person do to you to inspire your hatred? Make him justify what he spews.

[Stephanie47]

If the neighbor was African-American would you not call your future in-laws on their bigotry? You do not have to sit silent. You do not have to reveal your personal lifestyle. It is surprising how many friends I have, who I have known for many years, who erroneously assume my wife and I share their bigotry and revulsion of anybody who is not like themselves. There are many flavors of ice cream than just vanilla.

[*Vanessa*]

To the OP:
You didn't mention, but I assume you didn't offer a reply. This in itself is your 'reaction' to their comments. I have used that approach often on a few different topic and it works every time (face-to-face conversations). If there is no reaction, they stop talking cause there is no soapbox for them.

By the sounds of it you are going to have a very sore tongue for awhile. Apply what I say, don't try move them to like the person at first, start with not talking about them, then to involvement (i.e. what do they do, where do they work, etc.). You will ok.

[Cynthia Anne]

This is your potential FIL, not your father. You're an adult. You don't need to conform to his bigoted opinion. In fact, you could simply ask him "What did this person do to you to inspire your hatred? Make him justify what he spews.

I think this is the way I would choose to handle the situation! Everyone is intitled to there opinion but some should keep their's to themselves! There is no room in my life for hatred! Hugs!

[Stephenie S]

RANT:

Alright guys. This is NOT OK.

Just a couple of points. There is NOTHING to indicate your being a crossdresser just because you object to bigotry. I hear this excuse ALL THE TIME and it really ticks me off. I couldn't say a word for fear of "outing " myself. What a PITIFUL excuse for ignoring hatred and bigotry.

There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to expect that because you call someone on their bigotry that they would AUTOMATICALLY assume that "You must be one too".

If your family member called a American soldier a "lazy nig*er", would they assume YOU were black because you protested such bigotry? I think not. Were someone to describe your wife as a s**t and you defended her, would they assume you were a s**t too? I think not. Were someone to call your friend a fag*t, and you defended your friend, would they assume that YOU were a fag*t too?

If you answered YES to those questions I am sorry. I think you are far too fearful of your own imagination.

Your future FIL? Whew. Remember Archie and Meathead? Meathead never quit objecting to Archie's bigoted behavior. Even when he lost the argument (all the time), he could hold his head up and stand tall.

End of RANT.

So sorry you future FIL feels that way. You have my sympathy.

Stephie

Oh, and Gloria loved him all the more for being true to his values.

[Maria 60]

I know how you feel, my inlaws have a lady across the street who's son is gay. They say he's gay because the father left when he was young and he may have a mental problem. I try to explain that he is born with it, but they are like the rest, and believe either your the same as everyone else or your screwed up. The strange thing is when we go to a wedding or a party together my mother inlaw will always come to me and ask me if she's dressed ok. I sometimes think she knows something about me.

[SabrinaEmily]

Hopefully after you get married, you won't have to deal or be around your in-laws very much. Sometimes there can be a real problems with families. It's sad that this happened to you. Best of luck.

Won't have to be around your in-laws? Well, that's wishful thinking if I ever heard it. When you marry someone, you're joining their family, and that means everyone else in it too.

Don't acquiesce to, or worse, go along with bigotry and prejudice just because you're afraid of them somehow inferring that you should be targeted with it too -- i.e., of your own shadow.

You don't have to do any damn thing you don't want to, and that includes swallowing your tongue.

If I sound angry, you're damned right I am. Stephenie is right. This is a pitiful excuse, and from someone who has no right to be making excuses. Grow a spine next time. (I don't mean out yourself; I mean speak up.) Even if they wouldn't have listened (and believe me, I've tried with little success to talk sense into transphobic people who thought it was fine and dandy to out others) you'll be happy to have acted with integrity, and at least they'll learn that not everyone in their lives thinks that sort of hateful prejudice is funny, or agrees with it.

[Eryn]

Won't have to be around your in-laws? Well, that's wishful thinking if I ever heard it. When you marry someone, you're joining their family, and that means everyone else in it too.

Nothing that a few hundred miles of distance won't cure! :)

[Sophie86]

If I sound angry, you're damned right I am. Stephenie is right. This is a pitiful excuse, and from someone who has no right to be making excuses. Grow a spine next time.

Here it is again. People angrily and self-righteously telling other folks on the forum what they ought to be doing in their lives. Why? Why not try this instead...

It's possible to speak up in situation like this without actually outing oneself, and it would feel much better than allowing them to get away with what they were saying.

See? That's not angry or judgmental, and it makes the exact same point. We could even throw in a little humor, like this:

I would ask the FIL: "Is this person stealing your chickens? Has he run over your mailbox? Does he play loud music late at night? No? Sounds like a good neighbor to me, then."

It's not that hard to be nice.

[Stephenie S]

Hmm. Sophie has a point.

I went off just because I have heard this excuse SOOO many times.

Sorry.

[Sophie86]

Hmm. Sophie has a point.

I went off just because I have heard this excuse SOOO many times.

Sorry.

:hugs: Thanks for not taking the suggestion badly. :)

[SabrinaEmily]

Could I have been nicer? Yeah. Should I have been? Quite likely.

But giggling along with bigotry, even more so bigotry against oneself out of fear of basically nothing, is something I hate with a passion. I'm willing to be seen as self-righteous and judgmental about that.

[L0vleyme]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree I should have said something.. But I guess I was intimidated. I did remain silent and looked out my window so as to not feed the fire. I have been with my gf for 7 years and get along with her family great otherwise. Maybe next time I will be more prepared and not taken by surprise if a similar conversation arrises, and can call them out on their childish taunts.

[Eryn]

Take our advice with a grain of salt. You're marrying your SO, not her daddy. It's unlikely that you will change his mind so any challenging you might do will be for your own gratification only. It might be fun, but beware of its effect on your relationship with your SO. Sometimes it's best to let let sleeping dogs lie.

Get married, then move 1000 miles away. Problem solved.

[ChanDelle]

This is a tough one. Reminds me of the old saw about teaching a pig to dance. The pig gets mad and you get muddy. There's really no good answer to this one. I think it's a no win situation no matter what. Hugs.

ChanDelle

[Kittyagain]

I have never known a person that was not a bigot. Not me, not anybody. Never! I am just as guilty as the next person. The real difference in people is how they deal with the dislike for other people's characteristic.

A firm I worked with had a man transition to a woman. A person I never met. It was the talk at every meeting or get together for a few days. Jokes ran through their office like a stomach virus. I am sure I laughed at one of the jokes as bad as that sounds but I inside I chided myself for the snicker. I could and should have said somethng but it was easier just to wait it out. Interesting though, after the jokes ran their course, the person got high marks for being a good asset to the company.

It can be as simple as "Until the fat lady sings." one that has hurt many people. Who hasn't laughed at a joke about other people. Even in this discussion, there is intolerance towards these people. They are probably good people for the most part that just need a bit of understanding about something they really know nothing about.

From Webster's:

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

I am a bigot. I must try not to be.

Kitty

[Karren H]

Yeah!! I'd have done the same thing. Your not going to change their attitude toward their neighbors... And you going to stir up a fire storm... So don't let those judgmental "holier than though" people get to you... I'm sure they aren't as perfect in their lives as what they think I'm sure not perfect. Far from it.

[jillleanne]

My inlaws are the same. I remind them that 1 in 10 people are tg which means one of their sons/daughters/grandchildren/brothers/sisters are tg also. I also ask them if their daughter I am with happens to be a lesbian, will they talk the same way? They quickly change the topic and I just as quickly bring it right back up. lol( I'm bad) until they reply with something intelligent. Now whenever I'm around them they are careful with their words and that makes me feel like I've accomplished something. They may not change, but they certainly are careful what they say around me. I also ask them questions like," iif you were in a car accident dying, and the ambulance driver was a black gay male, would you rather die on the road?", or " the doctor saving your life is tg, would you prefer to die or let him save you?" That shuts them up in a hurry but no, I continue to demand an answer to help them realize just how wrong their thinking is. They get it but hate to accept it.

[Chickhe]

There perfect response is to dress up in drag this halloween and visit them!

One halloween I met a friend's friend who always braged about how he was the perfect lady's man...so much it almost made you puke. Anyhow he was mortified when I dressed in drag....huge breasts, short skirt... he couldn't look at me! So what did I do? Went over an put my arm around his neck and told him how much of a ladies man he was... that was the most satisfying thing I have ever done! He lightened up a bit. I don't see him much, but when ever he brags a little too much I just agree with him a little too much and he shuts right up.

[Sophie86]

There perfect response is to dress up in drag this halloween and visit them!

One halloween I met a friend's friend who always braged about how he was the perfect lady's man...so much it almost made you puke. Anyhow he was mortified when I dressed in drag....huge breasts, short skirt... he couldn't look at me! So what did I do? Went over an put my arm around his neck and told him how much of a ladies man he was... that was the most satisfying thing I have ever done! He lightened up a bit. I don't see him much, but when ever he brags a little too much I just agree with him a little too much and he shuts right up.


OMG! That's PERFECT! :clap: :notworthy:

:roflmao:

[donnalee]

I have never known a person that was not a bigot. Not me, not anybody. Never! I am just as guilty as the next person. The real difference in people is how they deal with the dislike for other people's characteristic.

I am a bigot. I must try not to be.

Kitty
I agree. I believe that fear and dislike for those that are different from us is instinctual, as others encroaching on your group's territory might affect survival in times past. We, however live in increasingly larger social groups and this type of behavior now threatens, rather than enhances, our survival.
I have responded to this kind of bigoted statement with "Whatever floats your boat" or similar, ask them how that person's presence or behavior is harming them and remind them that the USA's founders wrote "the pursuit of happiness" as one of the 3 fundamentals of human rights in the Declaration of Independence. This is not an argument you are trying to win, rather you are trying to open the window a crack to let in a little of the fresh are of reason. Keep it as low key as possible. A lot of otherwise good people have a knee-jerk reaction to certain things that can be educated out of them if given a chance; the best way is an informed self-reconsideration without being pressured; i.e. let them come to that realization by themselves. Just provide them with some food for thought without appearing to attack them.

[KylieA]

A firm I worked with had a man transition to a woman. A person I never met. It was the talk at every meeting or get together for a few days. Jokes ran through their office like a stomach virus. I am sure I laughed at one of the jokes as bad as that sounds but I inside I chided myself for the snicker. I could and should have said something but it was easier just to wait it out. Interesting though, after the jokes ran their course, the person got high marks for being a good asset to the company.
Kitty

It's probably the old adage "any news is good news". Now that she is known by everyone in the company, the results of her good work became known by everyone.

[NicoleScott]

Not responding doesn't make you spineless, it just may be that you chose the tactic of not engaging.

My brother watches DWTS and the name Chaz came up. My brother said "He....I mean she....I mean it.........blah blah". I pointed out that Chaz is a he now, and should be referred to as a he. My brother is intelligent and educated, but I can't believe that he is so ignorant of gender matters. I think it's his obligatory queer bashing (that is, anybody who isn't 100% male or female in all gender and sexual ways. They're all the same: queer) to let others know that he is squarely straight, which is usually a sign of some insecurity.

[suchacutie]

Once you have lived throught the shock and complete surprise of blatant bigotry, you can understand that the usual response is to be completely speechless! It takes that first time to allow one's mind to regroup in order to be prepared for this kind of thing. Talking about it theoretically is one thing, actually having been there is another. Yes, I've been there!

I was in New Orleans, walking with two very good and long-time friends who live 1000 miles away so we seldom see each other. We had just come from a lovely dinner and were headed to the casino when we passed by 3 guys clearly in drag. They weren't trying to pass at all and were dressed in an over-the-top drag style with pink and green hair (wig), heavy makeup, and the rest. I thought they were pretty impressive and were clearly headed to a party or a drag show on Bourbon Street. Suddenly my friends started a diatribe of vitriol against these three young guys! I was completely shocked at my nominally liberal friends. I was completely speechless! After a minute or two of them going on and on about the moral iniquity of these guys I finally said, "it looks like they were headed to a halloween-like party" and that shut down the verbiage for about 10 seconds and then it all started again.

I just could not believe what I was hearing. It was so out of character from what I knew of these friends and it just blew me away to the point of not having a clue about how to approach them. A few minutes later the subject changed, as it does, maybe because I was suddenly silent, but I'm not sure they really noticed. Of course, I spent some time thinking about how one might be prepared to respond to this incredible onslaught of misinformation and misguided bigotry. To make matters more shocking for me, this incident happened within a year of us finding Tina and me having any idea that I was transgendered. What a sharp introduction to anti-trans feelings!

So, take heart in that others of us have run into this "buzzsaw" without expecting it. Take some time and think carefully about how to handle this. Speak with your gf and come up with a common course of action that makes both of you comfortable. It affects your gf as much as it affects you, and handling it together is very important!

tina

[BillieJoEllen]

I know the pain that LOvelyme is feeling. At a place I used to work at we had a TS (post-op) driver that came to our place about two times a week. She caught all kinds of hell from a large segment of our work force. A lot of the men giving this fine lady the business would've made rednecks look like wimps in comparison to them. I always felt bad that I couldn't find the courage to confront those men on this issue because I always felt I would betray myself if I did so. I felt so bad and crummy whenever I saw this happening. They were the kind of men that could and would resort to physical violence if they were given the chance. I would've confronted them on almost any other issue and not given a hoot about my safety but on the subject of TSism I was a total loser.

[Eryn]

This is a tough one. Reminds me of the old saw about teaching a pig to dance. The pig gets mad and you get muddy.

Or the one about wrestling with a pig. You both get muddy, but the pig likes it. :)