What IS a supportive CDer?

[*Vanessa*]

It is clear to me my SO will not support my CDing and gender issues or is it.

Do I try live around this situation and not lie so I don't upset the statuesque? This thread: in "What IS a supportive SO?" entry #58; made me think of my issues from a reverse perspective and that is “So what is a supportive CDer?” I've not mentioned this before in any threads, but feel a little background to set the stage so to speak is in order:

1. Wife one left right after our honey moon. Her reason was not being ready for marriage. We have a 40yr daughter and three grandkids. I don't know any of these people. My daughter and I tried to work out a relationship roughly 8 years ago but failed I think. We don’t talk.

2. Second wife, who I dated prior to my first wife. We have two kids 35 and 37. One of them has two children, my grandkids. I’ve never meet these children, they live thousands of kilometres away. I came-out to this wife as a CDer. She was appalled at the thought and told me that she didn't want anything to do with CDing but was ok with me being active in the closet, pun intended. I left that marriage 7 years in because I could not take all the arguing and fighting. Turns out I still love this woman. She came from a very aggressive family.

3. Third wife, married for 27 years. Told her when we were dating that I was a CDer. She gladly accepted me and for the most part we had a good life. You can't review 27 years in half a dozen sentences. She was/is bi-polar, and when she was on meds for the most part was not emotionally available. She left the marriage in January of 2009. She is an adult survivor of savior child abuse. Let me clearly state that I am only stating that she was bi-polar and not offering this as some excuse. If you are not informed by the condition please education yourself.

What was the ‘tell’ something was up with her? I hacked into her email after she bought herself a new pair of panties (and none for me) and I found them hanging to dry in the bathroom the night after coming home late from work, that she never ever done prior.

4. Fourth wife kind of, my friend and current SO. She came into the picture 10 years ago and overlapped my last marriage. She moved herself and her three kids literally across the country for a better life (ending a bad marriage) and to be closer to me. She is for the most part my now my provider. She has been alone most of her life, Ex-military and trained sniper. She doesn’t share anything except what she thinks need to. She is not stingy, but self absorbed in life planning to a fault. She gave me a poem that she wrote just after we move in together. It is beautiful, like marriage vows. She is a wonderful provider just like a man should be, but she is NOT a man. We don't have any adult relations period. She supports me when I go out chasing Grizzle bears and other animals in the mountains with my camera gear. The military changes people, how can they not. They are out there being shot at protecting people’s right back home. You don't drop that kind of training (mind f*ck) on the way home from war.

Again how does a person lay down enough information that you don't stir up someone else’s pet peeves? I apologies if I am it is not my intent.

How do I get to a point and say "I believe I should tell her I might have a little transgender issue happening? I cook, clean, provide support the best I can. But where is me, Vanessa in all this? She is non-existent that's where. If I cannot be honest with ME then why live? There would be no reason to exist if everything in life is based on lies. Sure word play come into the picture, we all do it. We want to communicate and be nice with people. We don't want to hurt anyone’s feelings, so we say "oh I love those shoes" or "that Poppa J's pizza was good". Is this any different then getting up in the morning and pulling up your panties well getting dressed? I think not. Is it different than getting into full girl mode and going out shopping without your SO being aware of your life? You bet, very much so. That to me is a lie.

So there it is.

How do I build a supportive relationship with my SO? Do I run the risk of losing her as a very close friend by opening the doors to who I am? Remember I cannot support myself in any way. Or do I lie and know it will only be a matter of time before I or the relationship implodes? Is there another way? Let me reiterate her training as a sniper. Her life depended on knowing her surroundings at every given moment. Maybe not so subtle but she and her two girls both noticed my rather long nails at our Thanksgiving supper. No one said anything, so maybe there is hope for little old girlie me.

A side note in ending: She just came home from work; she had a story about one of her co-workers and ended with this thought, strangely enough. There is a big difference between a bullsh*ter and a liar. A bullsh*ter knows they are bullsh*ting and everyone around knows that. A liar is dishonest.

[J'lyn GG]

Well, I know most will tell you to tell her, you cannot live without cding. Yada yada yada. Surprisingly, I agree. Not for the same reasons, but...there it is. Its not fair to use her AND lie to her. (I honestly can't tell if you love her or are just with her to be supported. I'm sorry about that.) I would assume that lying, for someone like her, would be unforgivable. But she should have a choice in her life, too.

Its gotta be tough thinking/knowing you cannot support youself, so you are stuck. But, really, is that fair to her?

Then again, she may surprise you. Also, b/c you don't have an intimate relationship, she doesn't have all of the sexuality and attraction issues to be concerned about.

If you decide to tell, go slow, regardless of her reacton. Let her get past the realization that she has been lied to for 10 years, b4 you start with other stuff. Its very difficult to deal with the lying on top of shaving on top of clothes and undies and makeup, etc, etc.

I wish you good luck with your decisions.

[*Vanessa*]

Well, I know most will tell you to tell her, you cannot live without cding. Yada yada yada. Surprisingly, I agree. Not for the same reasons, but...there it is. Its not fair to use her AND lie to her. (I honestly can't tell if you love her or are just with her to be supported. I'm sorry about that.) I would assume that lying, for someone like her, would be unforgivable. But she should have a choice in her life, too.

Its gotta be tough thinking/knowing you cannot support youself, so you are stuck. But, really, is that fair to her?

Then again, she may surprise you. Also, b/c you don't have an intimate relationship, she doesn't have all of the sexuality and attraction issues to be concerned about.

If you decide to tell, go slow, regardless of her reacton. Let her get past the realization that she has been lied to for 10 years, b4 you start with other stuff. Its very difficult to deal with the lying on top of shaving on top of clothes and undies and makeup, etc, etc.

I wish you good luck with your decisions.

Thank-you!
I totally agree with most of what you are saying. However, I have never included any part of girlmode me with any part of our relationship, so I have never ever lied to her. Just to clarify.

[Sophie86]

How do I build a supportive relationship with my SO? Do I run the risk of losing her as a very close friend by opening the doors to who I am? Remember I cannot support myself in any way. Or do I lie and know it will only be a matter of time before I or the relationship implodes? Is there another way?

This is how I see it. Don't take it as advice, just take it as how I would feel compelled to act in the same situation. If I needed her in order to survive, then I would have to be prepared to pay for her financial support by following the rules she lays down. If I told her, and she said, "This is how it has to be," then those would be my marching orders. Eating has to come before dressing up.

Faced with the dilemma of whether to tell and risk the relationship now, or don't tell her and risk having her find out on her own later, I think I would prefer to tell her myself so that I could control how she gets the information--break it to her gently, and all that. There is the third option of simply repressing the desire to dress, so that there is never any risk of her finding out at all. I take it that option is out, but I mention it anyway. It is by far the safest option.

Breaking it to her gently may or may not work. One thing I would tell her is that she has the option of shutting it down completely, if that's what she needs. Maybe she would accept that, or maybe just knowing it's out there would be too much. That's where knowledge of the person comes into play, and I'm just not in a position to weigh the probabilities.

Good luck, Vanessa!

[*Vanessa*]

Am I right in thinking this....(I have read carefully. Just checking.).

You have been with this person 10 years? Although you told the previous women, you haven't mentioned any aspect of CDing with this curent one?

If that is the case then you have no reference to assume what her reaction might be. She might shrug her shoulders and say, "Yeah..OK...Anyway I'm off sniping. Catch you later."

Yes, and I didn't think of that <slapping forehead>

ALTHOUGH: There will be a question of a lie here from some. I have only 'lived with my SO for the last 2 1/2 yrs. We knew each other over ten years. We dated a few times, she loved me deeply and still does. My Ex-wife was NOT available to me emotionally as she was on strong meds for 8 years. I don't think inclusion of more people in one life is skirting the issue (today).

Back to slapping the head: It is true that my now SO help me emotionally when I realized I was abused as a little boy. Without SO I an sure I would not have made it through that point in my life (Owning gratitude).

[*Vanessa*]

Thank-you for your thoughts Sophie

I think I could suppress CDing if that was the whole deal, but it's not. My mind is Transgender so dressing is just part of who I am (hence the conflict). In this case I couldn't suppress Vanessa, if I tried. In fact am trying and failing at it miserably. This failing is what got me to this fantastic site. I totally agree with the knowledge base thoughts also, it is impossible to include enough background to cover even things one doesn't want to talk about. Thanks again.

[Katesback]

When nearly all women marry a man they assume that man to be normal in the eyes of society.

When they find out thier man is not normal it becomes a lot more complicated and she starts to wonder if this is what she signed up for.

Add to it the fact that the following things happen very often.

1. the wife comes to realize that her cd husband is really a ts that has yet to come to grips with who they really are
2. the wife come to realize that the simple acceptance of finding out her husband is a cd is just the beginning of the hell she will face. Meaning that once the news is shed the cd all of a sudden goes all out with the cd activities and the wife is gets it shoveled down her throat without any choice in the matter.
3. the cd starts going out and having sex with whatever as a girl and the wife finds out.
4 the cd is seen as being untruthful even though he really is being truthful but he could not forsee the ever escalating desire he experiences.

Thats just a few of the issues that a wife faces and truthfully I dont blame them from packing thier bags and running. Better yet if she was just told from the beginning but then see #2.

[AllieSF]

At first I thought maybe your relationship was more of a mutual supporting friendship, but not romantic. But since you just said that she still "loves you deeply", that brings a new dimension to my thought process. In my prior understanding I would say in a way that both of you were using, with the knowledge of the other the other party and it was working out fine. The love angle, starts to cry out for more honesty on your part to, as said above, gives her a choice in the situation. To me it appears that you are doing most of the using rather than the mutual using of each other in a more platonic friendship type of relationship where one lives with another.

Now, there are many ways of coming out. One is just testing the water with side comments about the LGBT lifestyle as a whole and maybe, if you get that far, the "T" side in particular to try to determine her potential reaction to having a TG as a romantic(?) relationship mate, which in essence you seem to be without the sex. If she reacts totally negative, then do you want to continue not being honest to her about who you are, or do you want to be able to be who you are and tell her and live with the consequences if she decides that you should leave? I know that is what your question is. If she reacts more or less neutral or positive (read tolerant) then you can continue with your coming out to her. Coming out can be a blast of honesty, or a gradual leak. That is for you to decide since you have been with her for quite awhile.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that a living arrangement and support situation is much different when romance is involved. Either way, the results of a reveal will in the end depend on her comfort to your situation and hers as it regards to you still living with her and her supporting you as a person with a hidden side. Maybe she accepts you as you are and is not interested in your history. However, the TG side of your history is still alive. So, my opinion is that you need to somehow come clean to her and deal with the consequences as best you can. She does have rights in this situation and it is very difficult to condone someone using someone else for their own gain without some honesty with the other used party. Now, if you decide to be you without her knowing (i.e. keep the status quo), I will not condemn you and will/do wish you the best of luck, because you also have a type of life threatening type of situation of your own which you have to deal with. I have close friends that are themselves (dress and go out) on business trips without their better half knowing and I am still their friend. They are adults and know the consequences of their own actions and decisions. I am not in their shoes, so I do not condemn.

[sissystephanie]

A few responses to your question! First of all, YOU can stop crossdressing if YOU want to!! It is totally up to you!! No one is forcing you to CD, only your own thoughts are involved! And your statement of transgender being responsible is a copout, since it is purely mental!! You can eliminate the feeling if you want to badly enough!! It just takes willpower!! I totally eliminated crossdressing for a 5 year period some years ago, and only started dressing again because my late wife begged me to!! She missed Stephanie in her life!!

Secondly, I will probably get flamed for saying this but it has to be said. Reading your examples of your marriages does not show me any examples of real love. What did you marry these woman for, their looks or their sex? I don't think you married them for love, since it doesn't seem to exist. I married (1) lady whom I had known for many years! I told the that I was a crossdresser when I proposed to her. She accepted me as "as is," and we had almost 50 happy years together before cancer took her!! She fully supported my crossdressing in every possible way.

[TGMarla]

Add to it the fact that the following things happen very often.

1. the wife comes to realize that her cd husband is really a ts that has yet to come to grips with who they really are
2. the wife come to realize that the simple acceptance of finding out her husband is a cd is just the beginning of the hell she will face. Meaning that once the news is shed the cd all of a sudden goes all out with the cd activities and the wife is gets it shoveled down her throat without any choice in the matter.
3. the cd starts going out and having sex with whatever as a girl and the wife finds out.
4 the cd is seen as being untruthful even though he really is being truthful but he could not forsee the ever escalating desire he experiences.


I bolded the "very often" part to bring attention to your point of view. You say this happens "very often"? I think not. I think such things do happen, but only in a small percentage of the entire CD population. It may be your experience, but it certainly isn't mine, nor I think is it indicative of the experience of most CDers. I am sure that most women who have to deal with the whole CD situation have worries that this might be the case, but most of the time it is unfounded. Research is certainly inaccurate, but they say that roughly 1 in 5 men crossdress to some extent, and a smaller percentage actually pursue it. Of those, maybe only 1 to 5 percent actually entertain gender reassignment. It's extremely rare. So there is no way that it happens "very often".

[*Vanessa*]

Well sissystephanie , I agree with you, you are probably going to be trashed for things you have said, but it will not be me that does that.

I didn't included anything to indicate love because the amount of it isn't in question. I agree that people may have the ability to stop dressing if they want, and I have stated that below.

I really disagree that being TG is only a mental thing and the feeling can be removed from someone. I am also very sure there are many, if not all,l TS and TG that would agree with me. I will not talk about why I married these women, but I know I loved all of them at one time, even if they left the marriage for some other reason.

AllieSF: I don't know about the level of 'using' as there is give and take in every relationship. This relationship certainly could turn into a FLR, after all it truly is now. So then associative thinking then states, all women in a MLR (traditional relationship) are using the men more then men using women. I don't know, but I do have an opinion.

I totally agree with the rest of your comment. thank-you for sharing your thoughts.

Katesback : I read some of the comments you have written others in the past and for that thanks for your directness.

[Presh GG]

IMO,

She's been in the military with the [stupid] DADT policy so chances are good she knows a few people along the gender contineum. Maybe talking about this aspect of her many years in the military would give you more insight into how she feels.

She has children which means she was in a relatioship before , why did that end?

You state she moved in with you , so you are not destitute.

Maybe that is why she loves you, your kindness where she knew many go-get-um guys in her work.

More random thoughts
Presh GG

[*Vanessa*]

Thanks Presh GG

I like the go-get-um attitude you talked about. There could be something there to create common ground. She move across country to be closer to me with her then 3 teenagers. Now after a time lapse of 10 years I live in her home and all kids are out on their own. She like most *combat personal* don't want to talk about such things. I so see slight signs of PRSD with her *now and then*, but that is another ride.

Thanks again.
PS. We are Canadian, I don't think there is a DADT policy but I could be mistaken.

[Duana]

When nearly all women marry a man they assume that man to be normal in the eyes of society.

Add to it the fact that the following things happen very often.
...
1. the wife...
2. the wife...

Thats just a few of the issues that a wife faces and truthfully I dont blame them from packing thier bags and running.

Congratulations, Kate. You've succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. Did you read the OP? What are you responding to? I think you've suffered a malfunction and your post wound up in a different thread.

[Miss Marshall]

Vanessa

I'm thinking that wanting to be a supportive CDer (TS) on your part is applaudable. People on here, just as in any form of life are entitled to there opinion but it is quite saddening to see the meeooowwww factor creeping in with some of the other girls posts. Looking at some of the responses makes me wonder if the girls have actually read your post at all. Given the content of what you have written it must have been very difficult for you to have outlined some of your life events in the way that you have done. I'm grateful that you have done this now though but fear that in doing so you have left yourself open to the meeooowwww brigade. I hope you are strong enough to brush of some of the swiping comments.

Now I know that you are not a simple CD. The need to express your femininity goes much deeper with you it's as if there's a burning fire that burns within and in many respects it is defining your life. If the drives within are not addressed then ultimately there is a risk that the fire will consume you - this is how it is not only for you, but for many a transsexual person. For this reason you can't just stop dressing (or in reality stop expressing who you really are). It's like telling a person with an acute psychotic condition to just go pull themselves together – it isn't going to happen. Such is beyond there capabilities and with a ts the issue isn't just a dressing issue. The complicating factor in your case is your history and the deep rooted psychological effects that your life events are having on you. It's over simplistic to say that you need to let your current SO know about your 'serious transgender issue'. But then you cannot not let her know but there are a great many risks in this for you with what seems to be prima facie the prospect that if she doesn’t take things well that you may become destitute with no means of supporting yourself. This then makes timing a critical issue and one that your need to gauge very carefully.

Referring back to your disclosure you refer to the possibility that your SO and her daughter had noticed your longer than normal nails. The inference is that they received a clue in respect of your femininity, what makes you say this? Did they have eye contact between them in the 'what's this all about' type of way? Did I read one of the girls post about gradual exposure and giving your SO time to get used to get used to a slow drift to your female self. It could be helpful but not in itself the answer to your problems. It seems to me that you need a rapid solution and in that you have a major difficulty in that the win – win solution may just not be an option to you.

I will try to provide a more comprehensive response for you in due course (via a pm), there is just so much in this thread. For now please know that life is precious. Though the experiences of your world at this point are torrid you are gaining experience which may at some point may be of use to you. Your current problems are not insurmountable you just need to find the key to the door.

Take good care

[Kittyagain]

Vanessa, even though I stumble on my own advice sometimes, I think a supportive CD'er is one who tries to understand the SO's position on dressing.

Kitty

[*Vanessa*]

Thank-you Kitty Yes I agree some what.

Maybe it's how you are saying it, or probably more to how I am reading what you wrote, but to me reads like you are saying, we as CDers should be more submissive to get our SO's approval. If this is what you meant, I don't think I agree with it.

To me dressing (by itself) is an attribute of who I am as people. So if I want my SO to feel more supported in her daily life then I could ask "How can I help her be happier in her daily life?" regardless of what I am wearing at that given moment.

Agree?

[Kittyagain]

Vanessa, one of the limitations of a discussion like this is our life experiences between one poster and the next can be so dramatically different, we perceive a different answer to a discussed problem. With that in mind we are both right. I do indeed see your point.

Kitty

[*Vanessa*]

Kitty - that is so true

[gigi10]

Sorry I moved the post.

[Sophie86]

Sorry if I post in the wrong place.

I would love to weigh in on this, but maybe you could repost the question as a new thread so we don't take over Vanessa's thread with our answers.