Today I got some disturbing news from the Michigan DMV

[Michelle James]

I went in to the Secretary of State (our version of the DMV) office to have my driver license photo retaken. I have lost 125 lbs since the last one was taken. Also needed my license to reflect my female presentation. The lady that helped me was wonderful! After she retook the picture she asked me if I was planning to change the gender marker to an F. I indicated that I was just beginning transition (first time I said that out loud BTW) and would eventually need to do that as well as a name change. Here's the bad news:

As of September 1, 2011 the State of Michigan has made it harder to change the gender marker. How so? The only document they will now accept is a birth corrected birth certificate indicating female. It used to be they would take a letter from your physician. She went on to say that the only way to get the birth certificate changed was complete SRS. Prior to this change you could get the gender marker changed on your license with just a letter stating that you had completed the necessary treatment for gender change, and that was somewhat subjective.

I hope this is wrong. Does anyone else have any info on this. The change is new so I can not yet find it on the state web site. Not that it was easy to find before.

[Zenith]

It varies by state. In my very conservative state (ugh), only a letter stating SRS has been performed will allow a gender marker change on the Driver's license. :straightface:

[Frances]

It varies by state. In my very conservative state (ugh), only a letter stating SRS has been performed will allow a gender marker change on the Driver's license. :straightface:

Same here, but I am in Canada. The letter stating SRS has been performed allowed me to ask a judge to issue a certificate that would allow me to change my DL. I have been post-op for seven months, but I will be legally a female only at the end of the month. Them's the breaks.

[Michelle James]

Same here, but I am in Canada. The letter stating SRS has been performed allowed me to ask a judge to issue a certificate that would allow me to change my DL. I have been post-op for seven months, but I will be legally a female only at the end of the month. Them's the breaks.

Somehow I had it in my little brain all that would be easier in Canada.

[Chloe Renee]

I hadn't hear that. I am on the verge of "this is an outrage" I was at the TG/TS Health fair at Affirmations in late August and there was no mentioning of that in any of the pamphlets. I also hadn't heard anything on the transgender Michigan mailing list. Guess I will need the check out the SOS website.

[Aprilrain]

that sucks sorry to hear. well Ohio is just south of you and all you need here is a form that you fill out and your therapists signs! it didn't even cost anything.

[Beth-Lock]

Somehow I had it in my little brain all that would be easier in Canada.

Frances talks of the situation in Quebec. Each Province has its own jurisdiction for drivers' licences, much as each state does in the USA. It is a bit easier in Ontario, Canada, where actual SRS is not necessary, but just to be at an advanced stage of transistion.

[steph963]

In Australia we have the same rules (in SA i know we do) but I believe we can change our birth marker to X instead which is an in between marker.

[CharleneT]

I live in Iowa, where the law states that a surgeon's letter verifying SRS is necessary. But when I went to the DVM here, I took along the court ordered name change (which also changed my gender), and as a lawyer friend of mine suggested, the clerk was not going to go against a court order... But in many ways, it was a trick. The rules state that she should have said no, but I was lucky and she made the gender marker change. Variation in how the rules are followed does occur, especially at the Social Security Office. That same lawyer friend ( who started her transition a couple of months prior to me) went into our SS office with a therapist's letter and they changed her gender marker. When I went in, with a near identical letter, they refused and pointed out the rules - which do state that a surgeon's letter is needed for SS change of gender.

[Melody Moore]

In Australia we have the same rules (in SA i know we do) but I believe we can change our birth marker to X instead which is an in between marker.

That is NOT true, if you are pre-op M-F transsexual you can now change your gender marker on your passport to show F.

You probably got this wrong because the news article reported it incorrectly here: Transsexual Aussies like passport changes (http://www.news.com.au/travel/transsexual-aussies-like-passport-changes/story-e6frfq7r-1226138577649)

* New passports will say 'male', 'female' or 'x'
* Transgender people can chose their preferred gender
* People with indeterminate gender can chose 'x' - WRONG!

But see down the article it says...

Intersex people, who are biologically not entirely male or female,
will be able to list their gender on passports as "X."

The X if for intersex, not in between,

Recently activist have been having huge successes changing laws and policies because of the new WPATH Standards of Care
and also because the Human Rights Commission did a report in 2009 for recommendations in changes in government policies
that were discriminatory and prevent transgender people expressing their true identity. Well Now we have passports being
changed without SRS and you can get a licence here in Queensland with your gender marker changed, but these are just a
few of the new changes in past year or so, but there are more coming now I assure you.

If I was being discriminated like this with my drivers licence I would not stop annoying them until they realise the
only way they would get rid of me is to change your gender markers. Get up and do something if you want policy
changes instead of sitting on your butts doing nothing except whining and waiting for everything to come to you.

[HenryHall]

... As of September 1, 2011 the State of Michigan has made it harder to change the gender marker. How so? The only document they will now accept is a birth corrected birth certificate indicating female. It used to be they would ...

I hope this is wrong. Does anyone else have any info on this. The change is new so ...
I have not seen this wider reported and it does seem an unlikely policy, so I strongly suspect you are misinformed, whether maliciously or through incompetence (which is more likely).
I recommend you contact the Transgender Law Center in California and ask them if there was a Michigan policy change effective 1 September, and if so its nature.
http://transgenderlawcenter.org/cms/content/legal-information-contact-form

The policy as of a year ago in Michigan was that
evidence of SRS was required for a Michigan resident to change DL, irrespective of where born
evidence of SRS was required for a person born in Michigan to change BC, irrespective of where resident.
But there was no requirement to change BC in order to change DL (or vice versa).

I suspect non-US commentators are mostly not aware how few adult Americans (as a percentage) reside in the State in which they were born.

[steph963]

That is NOT true, if you are pre-op M-F transsexual you can now change your gender marker on your passport to show F.


I hadn't actually read that article, I didn't know that about the passports but would be very handy information for the future. It does sound like I got some information mixed up :(

I was more referring to this though: http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/bdm/gender.html

[Melody Moore]

I was more referring to this though: http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/bdm/gender.html
That is the current state government policy in South Australia, after the recent high court ruling for two pre-op
F-M Trans-men (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/transsexuals-win-green-light-on-birth-certificates-20111006-1lbru.html) recently, all state governments are going to be forced now to review these policies and make
amendments that permit all transsexuals to change their gender markers without having to undergo SRS/GRS.

Because of the latest SoC (http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf) and the Human Rights Commission's Sex Files Report (http://www.hreoc.gov.au/genderdiversity/sex_files2009.html) is a bit hard for anyone to argue against
the right for a person to express their true gender identity. These are the tools activists are now using to win, win, win!

So policies like this one you quoted from South Australia are set to soon to vanish forever in Australian Government ;)

[Stephenie S]

It is true that you can change the gender marker on your passport without surgery, (Thank you Ms Clinton).

That may be a way to circumvent this rule. You could show up at the DMV and say, "Look, you must have made a mistake. See my passport?"

[Melody Moore]

Noone can ever say that Stephanie is just a pretty face, this woman is really smart & thinks outside the box!

Showing a passport with a changed gender marker is pretty much all the ID you will need to change
your license. So people that feel that there are no ways around these out-dated laws and policies are
mistaken. And this is why I keep saying in the transgender community "Times they are a changin' folks!".

[Traci Elizabeth]

Simple solution. Go to another state that does not have such requirements, get a new license, then go back to your state and submit your new license for an in-state license. Once an "F" is on your license, no other state would question the "F" they would simply issue you a new one upon surrendering your other state license. Sounds easy to me (lol).

[erika130]

This is sad to read, I used to live in Michigan, that's where I got my first DL. Somehow I never saw it as a conservative state (it may or not be) but this surely takes it in that direction, & not for good.


Simple solution. Go to another state that does not have such requirements, get a new license, then go back to your state and submit your new license for an in-state license. Once an "F" is on your license, no other state would question the "F" they would simply issue you a new one upon surrendering your other state license. Sounds easy to me (lol).

This is exactly what I was thinking. But it might also be difficult to get all the documentation needed to prove 'residence' to get a DL in that other state though. Obviously not as difficult as the whole SRS thing, but still. You probably would also need it changed on your SSC so that they wont ask for birth certificate. Anyways I'm sure as a community we could help one another, right?

I'll add, here in NY state, & more so in NYC, it's very easy with the help of some groups with great legal resources & experience. I know a couple of girl friends who got their DL, Passport, & SSC gender marker change all in one day. Talk about efficiency

[HenryHall]

Simple solution. Go to another state that does not have such requirements, get a new license, then go back to your state and submit your new license for an in-state license. Once an "F" is on your license, no other state would question the "F" they would simply issue you a new one upon surrendering your other state license. Sounds easy to me (lol).

I guarantee you that does not work for Florida, I have a friend who did exactly that and Florida with gratuitous cruelty converted him back to female after living 3 years in California. It is no problem changing from one state to another and keeping them same gender UNLESS you have ever held a DL in the state you are moving (back) to. In which case you have to start over from the beginning and meet their requirements. You might say you can (and probably should) keep moving on, but you can never go back in life.

The only way out is to change social security numbers (which the SSA will do only on clear and convincing proof that you have been a victim of egregious identity theft).