What Would You do

[thechic]

What would you do

Today i felt so sick with myself.
I was working on a building site fitting a air con system and working with building contractors and all men.
Every body there thinks im a woman doing a guys job and im ok with this.
Anyway it was 10am smoko time, so i make my way to the local bakery to grab a coffee.
several of the builders deside to accompany me to grab a feed.
We are all at the bakery ive got my coffee waiting for several of the guys to finish being servied,then a transgender person walks in ,she looks great nice outfit and nice boots but abit to dramatic on the eyes.
The guy im talking to then notice her "my good look at it, its a guy",then thay start critizising her not loudly but amoungst themselves and telling me it shouldnt be allowed. I found out the guys im been working with are hypocritical neanderthal pigs,Trouble is,I did nothing ,didnt even say a word,and boy do i fell guilty.:doh:
So my question

What would you do in this situation ?

[VioletJourney]

It depends on whether you're willing to get your ass kicked for your principles.

[Mary Morgan]

I suppose we all know what the right answer is. In my view we should be defending everyone and anyone from such attitudes. You must do what is best for you both short term and long. Measure twice, cut once. Remember you still have to work with these "hypocritical neanderthal pigs".

[pinto]

In my opinion there is not much to do because this is type of guy who will never understand or never will confess that they have sympathy with transgender persons. It's kind of expected from them that they are machos and all transgendered are faggots for them. Isn't it?

[RADER]

I say its best to just walk away. You could lose your job or worst, be ridiculed to death.
I know that you had to bite your tong, however it was the smart thing to do this time.
Rader

[carolynn2fem]

I supose this coment could apply to any demograffic or subculture with out realy taking a stand.
As long as they are not tring to recruit you to there team. what is the big deal? just someone doing there own thing.

[josee]

What did you expect from a bunch of construction workers? You've got a testosterone filled environment and the group /herd mentality working against you. You did the only thing you could do in that situation. Long as it doesn't turn physical, it's best to walk away from a situation like that.

[Patty B.]

Of course a lot to possibly lose and maybe nothing to be gained. Only you can make the call at the time it does happen, easy to be critical of someone but until you're in their shoes you just dont know.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Not much has changed in my 46 years of building then has it, did my time in Ch Ch, so i was the apprintice age 17, then & i walked out the door when the comments were so off putting as in putting females / women down. & to say any thing would just add fuel to the fire. & i knowq this concerns a trans person yet its no different for some of us who are masculine looking women .

& in many ways it was an affront to my self being female as well.

Today I can get slaged off from time to time the difference for me is im one strong woman & i just deflect whats said because you can not have a nice converstion with ...boys ... = the boys club. who have not grown up.

Tho i have respect from many men & that comes from showing who you are, & for those who dont seem to grow up . why waste your time saying any thing, more so when theres a few to gether.

Dont feel guilty you can not take on other peoples bigioted mind sets & how they think or speak , & may be under thier over the top out spoken words concerning this person ,they are covering up thier own insecuritys of weakness in them selfs, or cant handle some one who has the strengh to be out as who they are,

& what would you acheve if you did say some thing . they'll carry on after you leave pretty much the same way,

Tho as i'v been writeing this one thing does come to mind is if at a later time you were able to talk to one by them selfs you could ask why they spoke in the way he has , or they have, just not in a group context & why they think its wrong in thier eyes,


...noeleena...

[Shelly67]

Tis pack mentality ..... with overtones of testosterone .
Praps in the quiet moment , just before falling asleep , thinking of the days events each of those guys will feel rather silly for such behaviour .
You did the right thing in my mind ....... treat ignorance with silence .

[Jorja]

Myself, I am the type of person that stands up and tells them all to shut up. Then I scold them for being a bunch of neanderthal pigs with closed minds. Then use their own faults against them. John, what if you walked in this bakery and everyone started commenting about you because you wear those stupid plaid flannel shirts? Or Joe, how long are you going to go around smelling fresh as a garden? We know your wife uses that new fabric softener because your so delicate. Thats right, treat them just like thier mother would. Tell them to grow up they are not in the 6th grade anymore. Tell them, I thought you were better people than that, as you move to the door. Get the heck out of there while they are still shocked. Go back to work and act like nothing happened. You will be surprised how many will approch you with an apology.

However, you might want to clear a path to run like the wind too. ;)

[Cally]

I would have done what you did. Mainly because if the TG person was not privy to the HNPs deplorable comments, the TG person was unaware and hence not effected adversely. No harm done to the target. (does not absolve the bigotry)

You now have an insight to your workmates and sometimes it is best to just take in the atmosphere in order to work out how best to deal with it.

Hugs from Cally

[Kittyagain]

Remember it is equally as bad for you or us to be critical of the construction workers as it was for them to be critical of the lady. I really think after having been through this is educate, don't criticize. Something as simple as, " She is just different."

Kitty

[Caroline2tone]

Hi there, I think Shelly has a point, especially if each of those guys is reflecting on the events of the day and feeling a little ashamed as he puts on his bra and panties and pulls up his tights (sorry panty-hose)!! Reflect on the thought that, whilst very unlikely, it is not inconceivable that each may well have 'cross dressing' desires/tendencies that cannot be expressed openly, and that each must 'go with the flow' to appear more manly than the others when faced with the scenario described. Lol

Hope that makes sense!!

PS. PLEASE don't interpret this post as supporting or condoning their action (in the bakery)

[wanagione]

Unfortunitly I have been in that position myself just recently, and with a bunch of nurses in school. We were discussing healthy people 2020 and the new topics that are being covered and glbt is one of the topics, when the teacher said transgendered one of the other guy nurses made a comment. everyone laughed. I didn't but i didn't say anything either. It was funny too that one of the girls in class is always doing her case studies on gay and lesbians and she was laughing too. I can only pray that I am stronger the next time the topic comes up. I have defended us in the past in the class though. I guess I just wasn't strong enough that night.

[*Vanessa*]

Hi Geneva - well I'm pretty sure I would have done the exact same things as you. I've worked construction in some pretty redneck, outback places. The places without coffee shops and the like.

This same questions came up yesterday only in another situation and it received lots of attention. Here is my stand on the situation if I were living it.

I have to pay my own bills, rent, mortgage, food. I'm not built strong enough to physically fight these guys. When the coffee is done and I am back at work I need these guys to have my back.

If these guy where talking to you, they wanted your attention. If you say nothing and offer no reaction (and here is what was missed yesterday) "You speak volumes". That action makes them stop and think, if only for a second. And another that was missed yesterday. You can't fight bullying with bully tactics.

There are the grand-standers with their 'should' factory but I am sure in the same situation they also would react the same way as you (or I have in the past). AS you read below most who have weighed in are of the same mind.

How should you approach tomorrow? The same way. Gandhi changed the world without raising a single fist.

[LeaP]

Remember it is equally as bad for you or us to be critical of the construction workers as it was for them to be critical of the lady. I really think after having been through this is educate, don't criticize. Something as simple as, " She is just different."

Kitty

I agree. Confrontation (aggressive confrontation) hardens attitudes, if anything. There's also a twist here: The guys MIGHT take a verbal beatdown from Geneva as a woman. Were it to come out, at that time, that she is a CD or TG (sorry, Geneva, don't know where you fall), it could turn very, very ugly.

Lea

[eluuzion]

I feel confident in predicting that is only a matter of time before your "secret" will also be discovered (uncovered). Picking your own time and circumstances would likely be a better option than leaving to chance and discovery by one/all of that group in an unexpected setting. Particularly if one/some of those guys end up trying to "come on to you" at any time in the future, under the assumption/perception that you are a female. Those events will potentially cause them to react violently, when they are made fun of by the rest of the group for "hitting on a guy", after your secret becomes common knowledge to the group.

Just a few things you might consider. I would certainly opt for revealing yourself on an individual basis, picking you first person to hear your news very carefully. A public announcement to the entire group would not be an option I would consider in that situation or any other.

For me, choosing between "feeling guilty but alive" or "being dead right" would not require much thinking to reach a decision.

good luck,:hugs:

:love:

[Sally24]

I think many, if not most women would have told them to be nicer. It doesnt have to be a big forceful statement. Something more along the lines of "I don't know Phil, she's prettier than your last couple of dates!". At least you feel bad so you do know the right thing to do.

[jillleanne]

Probably the same thing you did. Not the time nor place to get into educating them on gender issues, but as Sally says, a few words to make them think might not hurt.

[drag n fly]

Ya know...I might have done just what you did...There had to be a lot of identification betwixt you and the CD being castigated...I may have just said something like: hey..live and let live...But....I don't think you should feel any the less for your inaction...smooches...you always look beautiful Jackie

[SheriM]

You have to pick your battles. This was probably not one you could win. If a person could think fast enough, you could have said something like Kitty suggested - "She is just different". That shows tolerance without entering an argument. It also lifts you up a little.
Good luck to you in your job.

[Toni Citara]

Perhaps a way to diffuse the situation is to toss out a comment like "meh, doesn't bother me, I say live and let live, if it makes her happy, more power to her". You're not outing yourself yet letting people know you're comfortable with TG/CD and have a higher tolerance level than the "good ole boys" have. Maybe make some of them reassess their beliefs.

Just my two cents.

[Joanna41]

Me being me...I would have sipped my coffee and said something like "geeze leave her alone she isn't bothering you" and then walked off leaving them without being able to make another comment with you around. Then at least you said something to them outloud and maybe they will be quiet and really leave her alone.

Joanna

[kimdl93]

For now, I would do nothing. If they had loudly gotten in that girls business, then it would be appropriate to tell them to back off and stop being such asses. Otherwise, just let it pass and when the job is near complete, you may approach one or another of the guys on the crew and let them know that it was hurtful. That way, you may be able to leave them with something to think about, but not jeopardize your situation at work.

[giuseppina]

I would stay quiet. This is a battle that isn't worth fighting.

Comments made nearing the end of a job tend to be remembered and can be used to demonise and direct work away from you.

If, on the other hand, they made moves like they were going to physically attack her, I would call the police and let them deal with it.

[EllieOPKS]

I believe you did the right thing. Though it was crude and rude of these guys, she was not confronted or heard their comments. They would do the same thing to you if you were ever outed. Myself, I can casually comment in these situations how much I love the diversity of people in this country. And as Ron White says "You can't fix stupid".

[Aprilrain]

As a woman you not only have the right but a duty to disagree with the stupid shit men say!

I understand your fear and your guilt. I think your fear comes from thinking you will out yourself and put your self in danger. I suppose there is a chance of that but more than likely they will just see you and dismiss you as a woman, BUT they will learn to be quiet about certain topics around you also. They are afraid! Scared shitless in fact of any suggestion that masculinity could be trumped by femininity! A woman's sexuality is IRONCLAD! we cannot be intimidated by Femininity because we own it! and what the hell is there to be afraid of with masculinity???? most woman see right through their macho BS. Men say stupid macho shit to impress one and other

[Chickhe]

Well... you could quietly make a complaint to the company HR dept and make sure the guys are sent on diversity training... I don't imagine any company would want thier reputation damaged by having an emloyee make a remark to anyone while they are being employed... just imagine how the person would have felt if she did hear? Suppose she is the owner of the company that hired yours to do the work?

[DanaR]

I think that you did the right thing. Some fights are not worth fighting.

[NatalieGirl]

When in a difficult situation, of any type, experience has taught me that my best course of action is often to just keep my mouth shut.

You did the right thing, Geneva. If you had spoken up you likely would have alienated your co-workers and possibly outed yourself.

[lady di]

I just love my inner sissy and let them do not deal with it

[Jorja]

I should explain why I would respond in the agressive manner I mentioned. I have been around and worked with construction all my life. Yes, many of these guys are very rough and it doesn't take much to get them excited. One thing I have learned they all will respect you a lot more by opening up and telling them like it is rather than sitting there keeping your mouth shut. Ask any construction worker and he will tell you, if you have a problem with me, tell me.

While going to college in the late 70's - early 80's and transitioning at the same time, I needed to work to survive. I wasn't a little rich girl ;(. I worked daily on construction crews. Yes, I took some verbal abuse at first. When I finally stood up and let them have it is when it stopped. They are some rough, tough, hard drinking, people but if you respect them they will respect you.

By the way, the example in my earlier post was a real life scenario that took place because a transgender girl happen to walk up to a stop light 15 feet away from these guys. They were running their mouths like crazy at her. They did not know about me as yet.

[Katie Sophie]

What did you expect from a bunch of construction workers? You've got a testosterone filled environment and the group /herd mentality working against you. You did the only thing you could do in that situation. Long as it doesn't turn physical, it's best to walk away from a situation like that.

It's strange that most of the construction workers I've ever met have been liberals, and a pretty surprising number are gay. Yeah, it's a testosterone-filled environment, but in no way did I get any sense of prejudice among them. Really seemed like open-minded guys. Of course, this was in Columbus, OH, which is home to the second-largest gay population in the U.S., so maybe that had something to do with it.

I agree -- if you're in the situation you were in, just let it slide. No need to draw attention to the matter. They'll probably forget about it by the time they get back to work.

[Sarasometimes]

I wouldn't beat yourself up. If you made a comment or stink about it they still would think the same way and you would give up too much for really no gain. If their parents didn't raise them to be decent, you aren't going to make them change. I think the important thing you learned was who these guys really are. Now you know what to expect from them which could be very helpful in your line of work. Are you pre op. CD? If you are legally a female your risks are less but still i don't question your actions. Now if you jumped in and agreed that would be different.

[Angie G]

I really don't know what I'd do. I would like to think I would say someting.But then your not going to chang the way they think.:hugs:
Angie

[bridgetta]

whip it out.. thatll blow their minds..

[Stephanie47]

When the ability to earn a living may be threatened by outing oneself, I will always say to not out oneself. However, I would always defend a person's to be left alone and not be discriminated against. In the building trades in the states, many construction jobs come out of a union hall, so it is possible to get 'blacklisted' if your lifestyle becomes common knowledge. I am assuming your interaction with those guys is limited to work. I have family members who would not approve on my cross dressing, but, would I out myself to defend myself and lose all interaction with them? No! But I do indicate, if the person is not bothering you, leave your bias thoughts at the door.

[Frédérique]

What would you do in this situation ?

I would do exactly what you did – nothing. Nothing CAN be done, because you’re dealing with a group mentality, same old, same old, and you need to think about your own safety. Pigs cannot be reasoned with – I learned this the hard way many years ago...
:sad:

[JainaCarpaccio]

If you want to do anything, the best option would be filing a complaint against them for harrasment. Directed at you or not, the behavior was derogatory and has a negative effect on the companies business, especially if they direct that attitude against someone who is willing to press charges. If you can file the report anonymously i would do so. If not it's up to your judgement if you want to do anything.

[Anne Teak]

shelly67 kind of has the right idea. it's a pack mentality and even if 6 out of 7 guys don't really care and are not bothered by that, the one single guy that brings it up becomes by default the head of the group at that point its the others that just follow along, even if they don't care one way or another.......or they may actually BE the crossdresser......or gay.....or whatever. The shame for ALL of us ( that don't out ourselves ) is that we don't want to be outed & therefore we basically HAVE to play along and go along with the group that may only be one person.......fear is a strong emotion

[Noemi]

So sorry. That is uncomfortable and difficult.

Similar things have happened to me, though when I am in male mode. Probably have happened to many of us. I most always let the narrow minded know that it is NOT OK to make those comments in my presence. What you say and how you say depends on the situation, of course. I am never looking to correct and hurt but to be of use, and teach.

In a work scenario you must be careful, you did OK staying silient. But find a way to let them know those comments are lower thoughts and you do not appreciate hearing them.
I have discussed acceptance with thick headed folks who just will not get it. They have a need in their minds to put others down, and will not really hear what I say, and I am good with people they are important to me, and I treat them as such. BUT they think twice about talking that non sense in my presence becuase they will have to account for their actions...but they will probably do it when they have numbers...

Their is progress. Each little victory elevates all those around us, and creates change.

[litlejohn]

My opinion, You did the right thing by doing nothing. Job and self outing being the biggest reasons. What I have learned about people who criticize others is they are trying to put others down to make themselves appear better. These guys probably do this same thing to each other( I cut straighter than bob, or did you see steve come in 15 min late. Take care and have a wonderful day.

[Ann Thomas]

I just had something like that happen to me a couple of days ago, but I was the object of the derision, as a guy could see my bra lines and made a big fuss about it. I was so caught off guard - as you must've been - that I could think of nothing to say. I just stared right in the eyes at the guy who had started off with the comments - and stared and stared - until he felt really uncomfortable with himself and walked away. That was two days ago and of course I've worn bras rather visibly since then to send the message I'm not ashamed of it, nor will I be shamed by them.

It's so hard to figure out what to say. I really can relate to you saying nothing. Don't beat yourself up over it!

Hugs,
Ann

[Julia Welch]

I've worked construction and at factories ... best not say anything as you'll end up on the recieving end.

It doesn't make it right, but it's reality.

[thechic]

I did feel guilty not sticking up for her,after it could of been me.
certainly found out how narrow minded every body im working with on the project is.
these perticular guys i dont often work with ,my employer and people who need to know know that im TS,and and i will tell most people if im asked,good thing is i never seem to get asked if im a guy, i seem to get on with every body.
So thanks for your advice and coments its appreciated