The Paper Trail

[AKAMichelle]

I was thinking about this the other day how many of us have that we are trangendered on our facebook pages. How many have or plan to change or delete this information from your profile as you near the end of transition.

It seems that if you want to be accepted as a woman, then it would be best that you avoid any special labels to the word woman. What do you think?

[Jorja]

I'm not on facebook so that is one less thing to worry about.

[chloe23]

Think it's a great idea

[chloe23]

I'm not on facebook so that is one less thing to worry about.

You should Jorja, everybody is on Facebook at one time or another

[Katesback]

My only interface to the trans world is this web site. Outside of that there is with few exceptions no trans people on my facebook or any other web based or real life based things. Sorry but my personal life does not revolve around trans stuff.

[Inna]

Good question!!!

The answers will be as varied as perceptions of what it is to be or not to be a woman.

Am I less of a woman when I truly am a Transwoman, or am I an impostor blending in, infiltrating the forbidden world.

Scarred of being taken as someone special, one in a bunch, original, organic, interstellar traveler who used to be one and now is another.................or is she/he/it?????

Unique, beautiful, true, one who knows the pain of once forbidden truth in place of conformity and manufactured standard. One who stifled, sentenced and abandoned her self for a place at the dinner table or a playground.

ONE who had the strength to finally pick her self from her knees, stand up and shout through the rigid air of compliance NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I don't know if I will for ever use the term Transsexual woman in place of just a Woman, but I shall forever be proud to carry such label within my heart as truth, as my truth!!!

[AKAMichelle]

My only interface to the trans world is this web site. Outside of that there is with few exceptions no trans people on my facebook or any other web based or real life based things. Sorry but my personal life does not revolve around trans stuff.

I thought you worked in a help center for TG people.

[RADER]

I do not do Face book or Twitter, Way to many people can see it.
Rader

[Aprilrain]

there is no mention of the status of my genitalia on my FB page. everyone I used to know knows me still and most of them have friended me on FB so whatever!

[AKAMichelle]

I wasn't just talking about FB. Everybody has a paper trail on the internet. If you do a search of your name, then you will appear. Do you care about the paper trail or have you done things to eliminate the trail?

[chloe23]

There is really anything you can do about your past life. Any thing that is public record may show up on the Internet. Like Name changes, Divorces, real estate, addresses, date of birth, ect. There is nothing you can really do about it because it is a public record.

[Rianna Humble]

I thought you worked in a help center for TG people.

That's what is so scary

[eluuzion]

There is really anything you can do about your past life. Any thing that is public record may show up on the Internet. Like Name changes, Divorces, real estate, addresses, date of birth, ect. There is nothing you can really do about it because it is a public record.

I agree and disagree, lol.

It is almost impossible to become completely "invisible" now, even if you started the process 15 years as I did (paying cash, etc). What you can do is minimize the amount of your personal data that is out there for those who collect it. Providing dis-information is also an effective control tool. Want to make it tough for others to track you? Try using just an initial as first name and Smith as your last...instead of a unique online name. Little things such as not "signing" your name at the end of all of your posts on this forum, will keep the posts from showing up on a search of your forum "name".

What you CAN do is take steps to remove what information is "removable" by going to online search services like Spokeo, etc and remove your own information. Many provide the option to do this.

Lots of ways to minimize...almost impossible to vaporize...lol

Alfred E Neuman :heehee:

[sandra-leigh]

If/when I transition, I would not anticipate that this would be the name I would settle on.

I have done the searches: it is not impossible to find me, but you have to be determined and have a fairly good idea of what you are looking for.

Much more of a problem for me is that under my legal name, I have a very extensive electronic trail (that does not lead to here, though.) Extensive and growing enough that people would notice if it were to suddenly stop growing. My legal name is fairly well known in association with some of the work I do, and my style is quite known as well. If I were to create new accounts under the new name, and leave my existing account unchanged, then I don't think it would take more than about 3 work-days for hundreds of people to figure out the new account is me.

I suppose it would be hypothetically possible for me to move in to a new field, but I would have to switch into something like hand carving or watercolors or music... all of which I am terrible at.

[Beth-Lock]

I never joined Facebook, since they inisisted on using your gender, and after reading the terms of membership carefully, I realized I could be sued expensively in a foreign court, for any ambiguity in my gender marker documentation. On thinking it over, I also realized they were profiting by selling my gender, or at least using it as a selling point, for their system. I don't think I should cede my gender identiy to anyone else strictly for their profit.
This has been debated in earlier threads here.

My problem now is trying to get myself deleted or my male name changed on other accounts, especially email. In a few cases, simply changing my gender would be enough. In some cases, it does not seem possible, and in others extremely difficult or merely hard to find out how to delete these accounts. Even gmail has me bamboozled in this, though I know there is a way. Part of the problem is that these are private enterprises, which are laws onto themelves, while government, though bureaucratic often offers you a reasonable way out, out of their spirit of public service.

The Internet is a funny place. A little while ago, something from a previous life about forty years ago, turned up when I Googled myself. It might have proved embarrassing to some, though I had merely mixed feelings about it. They say nothing dies on the Internet. If this incident is an example, nothing published on paper can be truly considered to have died either, including such things as ill-tempered letters to the editor in your local newspaper. This is because increasingly, printed material is being archived on the Internet.

[Melody Moore]

There has been lots of security concerns in the past with personal information on Facebook, however
in recent times there has been many changes to how you choose to connect with other people. And
I honestly believe that if you know how to set up your privacy settings, and friends lists & the relevant
permissions, then you can really make Facebook very secure. A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

Even though I have my local transgender group's social page linked to my main account on Facebook,
my main account reveals nothing publicly about me. If I get any friend requests I check out who they
are from, if I know the person or their friends before I add them. Now you can also add friends to special
lists where you can also control the permissions to the content they are allowed to see on your profile,
this includes photo albums etc. So I don't show any of my trans related content to anyone else who isn't
trans or someone I don't know & feel comfortable with. If I get anyone like that I add them to my 'Restricted'
list. Most of what I post that is trans-related gets posted on my local group's page anyway where my name
is not even visible to other users. People can still message me as the Social Group Administrator and not know
who I am.

Someone should start a discussion forum about using social networking sites safely instead
of just being in fear of them. Because there are a lot of benefits with belonging to Facebook
if you happen to be a trans person. There are many groups and other people you can meet
and just recently I linked two people up who live in the same town in the USA, now they are
the best of friends. One of them is a member of this forum but hadn't met anyone here from
her local area, but I found her a friend on Facebook, so now she is not alone in the town where
she lives anymore - so there is the foundation for a new transgender support group right there.

Click here if you would like to connect with me on Facebook and learn more about security. (http://www.facebook.com/melodynoble)

[sandra-leigh]

On FB, I have learned to be selective about adding friends of friends, as some of my friends are not selective about who they friend.

There are some some people whose recommendations I would trust a great deal, and there are other people whose recommendations I would give a good going over before accepting.

[chloe23]

Facebook you can secure your privacy settings. I have mine locked up and i control who i want to friend. I don't even show up in a Google search for FB. The point i am trying to make is your public records from your former male life will never disappear. For example, suppose you date a guy and he doesn't know your a Post-Op MTF, all he has to do is Google your last name and your previous life will show up.

[Frances]

This is almost like your Question of direction thread.

I did not get on Facebook until I was living pretty much full time. I also did not start posting on this forum or going to support groups or taking hormones before then either. I did all I had to do to make my transition successful out of the public eye. I did, however, have information on my being trans on FB for a while, but eventually deleted everything of that nature. Chasers still find me once in a while because of my friendships with other people. My friends list is hidden on my page, but I am visible on other people's pages.

[Katesback]

You statment is completely correct. I worked helping trans people.
I thought you worked in a help center for TG people.

[AKAMichelle]

You statment is completely correct. I worked helping trans people.

That keeps you connected to the TG community personally as well because of the friendships you forge at work. Doesn't seem like you completely hide the trail back to your male beginnings.


If/when I transition, I would not anticipate that this would be the name I would settle on.

This is what I was thinking as well. If the name isn't the same as you were as a cd'er or wherever you began, then the trail gets much more difficult to follow.


This is almost like your Question of direction thread.

Your right it is. If you want to complete your transition 100% then it seems that to live a successful life in your final gender that you must limit those who know of your beginnings. But this contradicts another belief that I have about the more successful transitions are the ones done with your original job and career path.

This is very confusing. I know the right answer for one person is the wrong one for somebody else.

[Jorja]

I wasn't just talking about FB. Everybody has a paper trail on the internet. If you do a search of your name, then you will appear. Do you care about the paper trail or have you done things to eliminate the trail?

I just did a search of the internet. While both my birth name and my new name appeared, none of the returned links were about me. Remember, there are others out there with the same name.

[Frances]

Your right it is. If you want to complete your transition 100% then it seems that to live a successful life in your final gender that you must limit those who know of your beginnings. But this contradicts another belief that I have about the more successful transitions are the ones done with your original job and career path.

This is very confusing. I know the right answer for one person is the wrong one for somebody else.

I for one truly believe that transitioning on the job and in your neighbourhood will make tougher and will help you overcome irrational fears. It really helps sink in the notion that people DO NOT really care about you or your gender. Surprisingly, people also forget over time that you were another gender.

After all this hard work, however, going to work somewhere else and changing neighbourhood is fine. I have been working for the same company for the last six years. I started out as a boy, and now, I am not. There is a huge turnover of personel and a lot of people did not know me prior. Still, I would like to work for a company where no one knew the boy.

[sandra-leigh]

For example, suppose you date a guy and he doesn't know your a Post-Op MTF, all he has to do is Google your last name and your previous life will show up.

I just gave it a try. I gave up after 35 pages of Google hits, not one of which had anything to do with me. (One of the hits might have been one of my third cousins, maybe.) In my past life, was I the actor, director, dentist, lawyer, real-estate agent, or X15 Fighter Test Pilot?

If you knew my current legal last name and were to google it, one hit out of the first 20 pages is me.

You could google images against my current legal last name, but you wouldn't find me anywhere in the first 60 "pages" (I didn't bother looking further than that.)

Again, I don't say it cannot be done, but it isn't easy unless you have very specific ideas of what to search for.

[Frances]

The point i am trying to make is your public records from your former male life will never disappear. For example, suppose you date a guy and he doesn't know your a Post-Op MTF, all he has to do is Google your last name and your previous life will show up.

Not everyone's. That is a myth.

[Niya W]

Facebook you can secure your privacy settings. I have mine locked up and i control who i want to friend. I don't even show up in a Google search for FB. The point i am trying to make is your public records from your former male life will never disappear. For example, suppose you date a guy and he doesn't know your a Post-Op MTF, all he has to do is Google your last name and your previous life will show up.
Really caus you could look Niya Toni Watson up and find nothing male related . While people might not know my male history, ever one would certainly know that I'm trans. I've photographed at Trans event and even made it on for 5 seconds n the news for trans pride march and SF pride . While that be a problem for me in the future ? Who knows.

[chloe23]

Not everyone's. That is a myth.

True Frances, but if you owned real estate or had a public job, it will come up. Anything that is in a newspaper will come up too. I googled my name and stuff came up, not much but a few things and my Facebook doesn't even show up. I doubt anyone would really check that unless they suspected something or where curious. Being Post-Op, it does give you an uneasy feeling.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you change your name is many states (dont know canada frances), its a matter of legal record. In some states, its required to POST the name change as a legal noticein the paper!!.. this is done to avoid people using name changes to get out of obligations..
it is incredibly easy to find your past... that kind of info shows up on google...
if not Google a private detective can easily get past info.. credit reports, etcetc...

its a myth to say never, but if someone wants to know..they will find out...it most relevant for job seekers


Michelle
I lived in my house since 2006...i started walking out my door as me in 2009 and never went back.. there are people i've avoided..including the big burly motorcycle guy 3 doors down...he has teenage sons...
we used to have block parties, and i brought the beer one year...i talked to him for hours...that was my only contact with him prior to transition..

i live in a cul de sac, and i drive by his house every single time i leave my house...he is out working all summer on his bikes and truck...
he has seen every single version of me...

he came to my house saturday, introduced himself and offered to blow out my sprinkler system with his 2 sons... not a mention, not a word, not a funny look...who the hell knows what he knew..
he clearly never noticed my change or he clearly didn't care about it...he smiled and said it was nice to meet me and have a great day (i don't have a working sprinkler)...

just one example of a real life thing that happens..in real life, its much simpler...things go wrong, they go right, you deal with them..

[Frances]

True Frances, but if you owned real estate or had a public job, it will come up. Anything that is in a newspaper will come up too. I googled my name and stuff came up, not much but a few things and my Facebook doesn't even show up. I doubt anyone would really check that unless they suspected something or where curious. Being Post-Op, it does give you an uneasy feeling.

You said previously that all the guy had to do was google your last name. You googled your entire name and knew what to look for. I am post-op and have not had public life or a presence on the Web prior to transitioning. No one will find me, unless I lead them to the information.

[Niya W]

if you change your name is many states (dont know canada frances), its a matter of legal record. In some states, its required to POST the name change as a legal noticein the paper!!.. this is done to avoid people using name changes to get out of obligations..
it is incredibly easy to find your past... that kind of info shows up on google...
if not Google a private detective can easily get past info.. credit reports, etcetc...

its a myth to say never, but if someone wants to know..they will find out...it most relevant for job seekers


Michelle
I lived in my house since 2006...i started walking out my door as me in 2009 and never went back.. there are people i've avoided..including the big burly motorcycle guy 3 doors down...he has teenage sons...
we used to have block parties, and i brought the beer one year...i talked to him for hours...that was my only contact with him prior to transition..

i live in a cul de sac, and i drive by his house every single time i leave my house...he is out working all summer on his bikes and truck...
he has seen every single version of me...

he came to my house saturday, introduced himself and offered to blow out my sprinkler system with his 2 sons... not a mention, not a word, not a funny look...who the hell knows what he knew..
he clearly never noticed my change or he clearly didn't care about it...he smiled and said it was nice to meet me and have a great day (i don't have a working sprinkler)...

just one example of a real life thing that happens..in real life, its much simpler...things go wrong, they go right, you deal with them..
If it's so easy then why do people get caught up in name mismatch with the SSA when they change their name .

[Frances]

if you change your name is many states (dont know canada frances), its a matter of legal record. In some states, its required to POST the name change as a legal noticein the paper!!.. this is done to avoid people using name changes to get out of obligations..
it is incredibly easy to find your past... that kind of info shows up on google...
if not Google a private detective can easily get past info.. credit reports, etcetc...

its a myth to say never, but if someone wants to know..they will find out...it most relevant for job seekers

I changed my name after SRS. No notices are required after surgery in Quebec, Canada. I am not saying a detective could not find me. Everyone is changing the premise here. Chloe said "a guy you are dating", not someone who knew how to look for things. I don't even use my real name on this forum. There is no link between my FB page (the link is my signature), my real name and this forum.

[chloe23]

You said previously that all the guy had to do was google your last name. You googled your entire name and knew what to look for. I am post-op and have not had public life or a presence on the Web prior to transitioning. No one will find me, unless I lead them to the information.

Frances, I own real estate, pay taxes, worked a public job, ect, my name does show up, even my address. If you kept a low profile in your previous life, i doubt if anything will show. Plus what helps is having a common last name like Smith or Jones, you can disappear in that group. I don't have a common last name, there aren't many of us.

[chloe23]

I changed my name after SRS. No notices are required after surgery in Quebec, Canada. I am not saying a detective could not find me. Everyone is changing the premise here. Chloe said "a guy you are dating", not someone who knew how to look for things. I don't even use my real name on this forum. There is no link between my FB page (the link is my signature), my real name and this forum.

Frances, I guess your from Canada, so that explains your reasoning. Here in the United States, just about every public record in on the internet. Laws are different in each country.

[Beth-Lock]

if you change your name is many states (dont know canada frances), its a matter of legal record. In some states, its required to POST the name change as a legal noticein the paper!!.. this is done to avoid people using name changes to get out of obligations.

It varies according to what province you live in in Canada. In Ontario, the most populuous province, name changes are generally published and the publication available online, but a trans person may opt not to have it published.

I think only the rich hire a detective to check relationships, both because they have the money to do so, and have money to protect from the inheritance angle, and want their children to avoid relationships the whole family does not approve of. The other likely case, is involvement of one of those dating in a love triangle. On the other hand, there are do-it-yourself detective checking services online these days, that offer a cut-rate option.

[Rianna Humble]

For example, suppose you date a guy and he doesn't know your a Post-Op MTF, all he has to do is Google your last name and your previous life will show up.

The only link between my last name and my former life are in the news stories that went round the globe about my transition, unfortunately because of those, I have somewhat less than zero chance of ever flying below the radar. And before a certain immature person comes out with it, this does not mean that I want to be an eternal "tranny", it just means that my story seems to have interested people as far apart as Romania, China and Australia - not much I can do about that. When you have lived in the public eye, you have to expect to get noticed.

[MJ]

I am a transgendered person take one look or hear my voice, Dead give away. can't hide can't pass don't care. they accept me or don't i lived a lie for way too long, why cover up and lie again

[Andrea85]

There has been lots of security concerns in the past with personal information on Facebook, however
in recent times there has been many changes to how you choose to connect with other people. And
I honestly believe that if you know how to set up your privacy settings, and friends lists & the relevant
permissions, then you can really make Facebook very secure. A little bit of common sense goes a long way.

Even though I have my local transgender group's social page linked to my main account on Facebook,
my main account reveals nothing publicly about me. If I get any friend requests I check out who they
are from, if I know the person or their friends before I add them. Now you can also add friends to special
lists where you can also control the permissions to the content they are allowed to see on your profile,
this includes photo albums etc. So I don't show any of my trans related content to anyone else who isn't
trans or someone I don't know & feel comfortable with. If I get anyone like that I add them to my 'Restricted'
list. Most of what I post that is trans-related gets posted on my local group's page anyway where my name
is not even visible to other users. People can still message me as the Social Group Administrator and not know
who I am.

Someone should start a discussion forum about using social networking sites safely instead
of just being in fear of them. Because there are a lot of benefits with belonging to Facebook
if you happen to be a trans person. There are many groups and other people you can meet
and just recently I linked two people up who live in the same town in the USA, now they are
the best of friends. One of them is a member of this forum but hadn't met anyone here from
her local area, but I found her a friend on Facebook, so now she is not alone in the town where
she lives anymore - so there is the foundation for a new transgender support group right there.

Click here if you would like to connect with me on Facebook and learn more about security. (http://www.facebook.com/melodynoble)

I have to agree totally on this. A properly set up page, and there are no worries. I've been on Facebook for several years now, first as male, now female, and there's no record of anything I've had on there available. My profile had been private since I joined, other than the past month that I opened it up so my bf could see it. The Wayback Machine never even crawled it because of that.

And btw, I'm the member of this forum Melody was talking about. The friend she found for me would have been nearly impossible for me to find on my own, let alone without her help if there wasn't anything like Facebook.

[sandra-leigh]

True Frances, but if you owned real estate or had a public job, it will come up.

I do have a public job, but even if you knew the correct name of the organization I work for, and were searching for that in connection with my legal last name, you would not have an easy time finding me. It can be done, but you would need to already know enough about me to recognize me in what was located.

I am, of course, talking only about investigation by non-professionals: in my line of work, it is a safe bet that someone who knows me has passed my name on to some intelligence agency.

[Diane Smith]

I don't have to worry too much about people Googling my last name. :)

- Diane (Smith)

[Hope]

I think that there is no way to ever remove, delete, and conceal all of the information in the world that can and will out you. That was made VERY clear to me recently when I had a credit check done...

Considering that all it takes is about a half hour, and / or $50 to do a background check on a person... (much less for those who do them all the time) and that you have no way to update most of the records used to compile a background check... it will be very easy for anyone who wants to, to identify any of us. And Facebook has almost nothing to do with that. You think Trans-Union is going to hesitate to tell anyone who asks that you changed your name from Ken to Barbie? The days of deep stealth are over. The information age killed it.

I think it is a much better idea to be comfortable with being trans. Which isn't that easy to do. I know. I am struggling with it myself.

And it doesn't mean that you go out with a big "T" tattooed on your chest, or one of those silly pink blue and white flag lapel pins, or even that you introduce yourself as trans... but it does mean that when people find out that you be cool with it. It is reasonable to ask people to behave appropriately with the knowledge, and it is reasonable to tell people that you are not going to answer whatever inappropriate questions you are uncomfortable with ("Are you pre-op or post op?"). But if you don't make a big deal about it - no one else will either. Usually.

When someone challenges your gender, you have to double down, and demand that they respect you. Respect isn't optional. But you also have to be un-fu(#-with-able. Just like the gay community has learned that it is only shameful to be gay, if one is ashamed of themselves, we need to be cool as cucumbers about being trans. Demand our status as women, without an asterisk, AND be comfortable enough in our own skin so that we behave like Fonzie when people find out, because people WILL find out.

It is also helpful if you can be REALLY passable so that the information is met with incredulity, but that is not an option for all of us. But being comfortable in our own skin IS.

[Kathryn Martin]

I was thinking about this the other day how many of us have that we are trangendered on our facebook pages. How many have or plan to change or delete this information from your profile as you near the end of transition.

It seems that if you want to be accepted as a woman, then it would be best that you avoid any special labels to the word woman. What do you think?

I never had a transgendered account.

[Beth-Lock]

Facebook like most email accounts independent of an Internet provider, requires you to identify your gender. (Exception: Gmail does not.)
Can you change your gender on Facebook later, for example, from M to F?

[chloe23]

It should let you, people do make mistakes when filling out profiles, plus personal info does change.

[Rianna Humble]

Facebook like most email accounts independent of an Internet provider, requires you to identify your gender. (Exception: Gmail does not.)
Can you change your gender on Facebook later, for example, from M to F?

I don't know the answer to that, but I had no difficulty replying honestly to facebook's question because my gender has always been female, it's just that my natal sex was wrong.

[Melody Moore]

Can you change your gender on Facebook later, for example, from M to F?
I just had a look and it looks like you can change your gender, so gender isn't locked in when you first set up a FB Account.
Also I have an old male FB Account that is currently deactivated & only use it from time to time to keep tabs on my kids. :)

[Hope]

Can you change your gender on Facebook later, for example, from M to F?

I had no problem changing mine...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

In the future, when everyone simple stays home connected to the network on facebook, its going to be so easy to be transsexual...just a click of a button, and its all good

[chloe23]

In the future, when everyone simple stays home connected to the network on facebook, its going to be so easy to be transsexual...just a click of a button, and its all good

Wish it was that easy.................

[Ellyn]

That is a wise move. Why? Just Google "Facebook CIA".


I'm not on facebook so that is one less thing to worry about.

[Jessinthesprings]

I am not on facebook either but I think it would best to be either be trans or be a woman. I don't think you can be both. So after you "transition" you are not a woman if you let the world know you are transgender. I would delete my profile and start anew.