Is transition optional?

[Aprilrain]

"I would transition in a heartbeat if I could.
There isn't a day that goes by where I don't think about the different moments in my life where I should have accepted those feelings I kept repressing and had opportunities to initiate the road to womanhood.

The only thing that keeps me confined to a closeted CD, is my love for my kids and wife."

This is a quote I pulled from the CDer section. It came out of this thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?153657-Do-you-want-to-be-a-woman

So My question is can you be TS and not suffer GID? can you KNOW your are TS and not transition? Is this person implying that a love of family is sufficient to quite the compulsion to be yourself? Is that reasonable? I know it was not enough for me. I had a lot of fear about coming out but it seemed better than the alternative. Just some thoughts.

[Bree-asaurus]

Sure you can know you're TS and not transition. But I think GID is kind of a requirement for being TS... lol

I could have chosen not to start transition, but I'd probably be dead by now... But that's me and my situation and what I have (or don't have) to live for.

[Starling]

History is full of people who sacrificed their own security and happiness for some larger idea. I think this could cut either way for a transsexual. Gender congruence is a big idea--in fact, an existential one--but there are other values that compete.

You can't assume that a person who decides not to transition does not suffer mightily from gender dysphoria which can no longer be repressed. They just suck it up. I think it's a true minority of TS folks who ever get to the point of even knowing why they always feel so bad.

:) Lallie

[jennCD]

If I woke up as a woman tomorrow (knowing that it will be a permanent condition), I wouldn't expect to jump up yelling "Oh my God, what am I going to do? How do I get back?" and I'm quite sure if everything else in my life stayed as it was, I'd live and die as happy as I normally expect to... but at the same time, I don't have GID. I don't have anxiety over feeling "wrong" or hating myself. I've never thought of suicide because of this. I simply learned to accept me for what I am and moderate my life to accommodate that which is generally perceived as being "too much to handle".

I view this condition simply as a mental one. My mind feels different from my body at times. I can't say I need to align one with the other permanently or I'll go nuts. I just feel its easier to change one's mind than to change one's body (to such a specific degree) and since I feel it's a mental issue, tinkering with the package wouldn't be my first consideration.

We all do what we feel we need to in order to cope. We didn't volunteer to be in this situation so each of us decides what we need to do to make it work. Some need surgery, some need counseling, some just need acceptance, and some need to find who they really are first.

:)
jenn

[Melody Moore]

I am with Bree, you cannot be a transsexual without having a
desire to transition because of an issue with your gender identity.

Can you be transsexual and not transition? In my honest opinion I believe the answer is "No".
To be a transsexual you MUST have a desire for gender transition and want to change your body.

So I believe the more appropriate label would be "transgendered" because they have no desire for
gender transition if they can be happy they can cope with living a double life, whereas a transsexual
will usually always report they cannot do that.

I also think that some crossdressers who make these types of claims are dreamers or Dreemian (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?161345-Male-lesbians&p=2618824&viewfull=1#post2618824) as Reine put it ;)


You can't assume that a person who decides not to transition does not suffer mightily from gender dysphoria which can no longer be repressed. They just suck it up. I think its a true minority of TS folks who ever get to the point of even knowing why they always feel so bad.
The SoC addresses the fact that other gender variants can also be affected by gender dysphoria,
and being affected by GD does not always mean you are a true candidate for gender transition.
So never forget that Gender Identity Disorder or Transsexualism is a completely separate issue.

[Katesback]

Very few transsexuals ever go through the process of transition. On the other hand if a guy walked up to me and told me he was transsexual I would dismiss his assertion because there is no evidence at that point of time to know if he was serious or a dreamer.

[Melody Moore]

Very few transsexuals ever go through the process of transition. On the other hand if a guy walked up to me and told me he was transsexual I would dismiss his assertion because there is no evidence at that point of time to know if he was serious or a dreamer.

First of all Kate I agree that only a very few people go through your idea of gender transition
however people do 'successfully transition' without GRS/SRS despite whatever you think. However
I also agree with the second part of your statement in that I could not take any person who
told they were a transsexual seriously if they have made no attempt whatsoever to transition.

[Katesback]

Sure you can say people successfully transition without srs. There are a lot of men that live as women in the eyes of the world and are happy. No doubt. There are all sorts of gender screw people out there that are happy. Dont think that has ever collided with my statments. What is incorrect is when someone says they are transsexual and has no desire to have SRS. That person is NOT a transsexual.


First of all Kate I agree that only a very few people go through your idea of gender transition
however people do 'sucessfully transition' without GRS/SRS despite whatever you think. However
I also agree with the second part of your statement in that I couldn't not take any person who
told they were a transsexual seriously if they have made no attempt whatsoever to transition.

[kimdl93]

I think you can chose the life you want. Its sounds like your family comes first, which is certainly commendable. It apparent that some TS are simply not able to survive without transitioning. Fortunately, you aren't in that place.

My question is, coming out to your wife and others doesn't require transitioning...just making some adjustments. Is that a possibility for you?

[Aprilrain]

I think you can chose the life you want. Its sounds like your family comes first, which is certainly commendable. It apparent that some TS are simply not able to survive without transitioning. Fortunately, you aren't in that place.

My question is, coming out to your wife and others doesn't require transitioning...just making some adjustments. Is that a possibility for you?

who me??

I am completely out to everyone and live full time. I think maybe you misread the OP. the quote is from a post in the CD section. I was using it as a start for the questions I had regarding transition. For me there was no question, i couldn't live another day the way I was going.

[Frances]

I view this condition simply as a mental one. My mind feels different from my body at times. I can't say I need to align one with the other permanently or I'll go nuts. I just feel its easier to change one's mind than to change one's body (to such a specific degree) and since I feel it's a mental issue, tinkering with the package wouldn't be my first consideration.

This is what psycho-analysis believes. Unfortunately, no trans person has had their mind changed, ever. If someone gives up on wanting to transition, they were not trans to begin with, in my opinion. Not everyone transitions however, some kill themselves or live incredibly miserable lives. I did not transition until suicide was imminent, as in propably in the next two weeks.

[Starling]

To no one in particular: We are talking strictly about transsexuals with gender dysphoria, aren't we? It's really nice if you don't have it, but that's not germane to this thread.

:) Lallie

[Julia_in_Pa]

I became so severely depressed and disgusted at my inaction to cause me to transition to full time five years ago.
It was either that or use the gun I purchased to kill myself with.
I lost everyone and everything that was close to me.
This is the worst case scenario people.
I've gone on to be successful concerning who and what I am.

It seems alot of gender conflicted individuals want some sort of assurance that if they attempt transition that they wont suffer loss.

Sorry kids it doesn't work that way.

No guarantees. YOU ROLL THE DICE !!

It's human nature to shy away from undertaking such a journey.

You also have to stop being scared and just do what needs to be done!!!

The clock ticks and you become another year older without taking needed action.

If you need to transition then you already know what has to be done.


Julia

[Frances]

It seems alot of gender conflicted individuals want some sort of assurance that if they attempt transition that they wont suffer loss.

As a matter of fact, the opposite is almost guaranteed. You know you are trans... if it's not a pros and cons situation.

[*Vanessa*]

Thoughts towards "Do you want to be a woman?"

Well I think you can bullsh*t your way through alot of life, but sooner or later that lie will raise it's head. They my dear you will be a deep pile of kaka you don't want to be in.

April your questions (I think)

1. "can you be TS and not suffer GID?" I don't think so. Now if you ask if you can be TG and not suffer GID then possibly, but still rather doubtful.

2. "can you KNOW your are TS and not transition?" Sure why not. Nothing is forcing you to transition and there will be mental anguish at time that will be unbearable at times.

Thoughts;
I will be 60 on my next birthday - trust me no one wants to go through such changes at that age. I read somewhere here, that the best years for a TS are in the twenties and 50-60. When the body is in it best shape and when your bear is greyed and less noticeable (HRT and electrolysis aside). But what was not said is at best if you TS when you retire you will have about 10 years to be at your best. The body just fail far quicker as we age after 50 years. (reflecting on the original thread post you are referring to).

Its not about HRT and SRS to be a woman. We are women trapped in some male body. We seek help to elevate stress and mental anguish. At some point where we might feel we have reach equilibrium then at that point we are happy. This point is at different points along the spectrum of CD - TG - TS for each individual.

[kimdl93]

who me??

I am completely out to everyone and live full time. I think maybe you misread the OP. the quote is from a post in the CD section. I was using it as a start for the questions I had regarding transition. For me there was no question, i couldn't live another day the way I was going.

You're absolutely right - I missread your post - and associated the later text with it. Sorry - My bad.

I do think that some TS individuals are less compelled to make the transition than others. And some are so stressed by the disconnect between body and spirit that they cannot go on w/o transitioning. Its tough in either case, but that's life.

[MJ]

Not everyone transitions however, some kill themselves or live incredibly miserable lives. I did not transition until suicide was imminent, as in propably in the next two weeks.

very true i felt the same way, can you be TS and not suffer GID?" I do not think so.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i worry about my health vanessa...but only now...i had no choice...i'm 49....

Of course transition is optional...of course different people can feel things differently..

i remember reading an essay about five years ago, and it said that for older ts people, often the only thing that can be done is to comfort them and help them come to terms with things...that set me off big time...
once i read that , i knew that was my fate, i refused to regret my entire life, and I basically started getting unhappy and depressed, avoided people, (got dysphoric..bell was rung)...that's a real moment i can point to... i read it right here in this chair and i cried and cried ...i knew what i was going to have to do, i knew what it meant to my family and my job... etc...the cons were evident...the only pro was that i could feel like i was surviving...

[*Vanessa*]

Certainly Kaitlyn Michele I can feel your pain.
That deep deep cry I know very well. As some here must remember me falling apart over this same issue not that many days ago.

When Katesback said "What is incorrect is when someone says they are transsexual and has no desire to have SRS. That person is NOT a transsexual." That point is hard to read yet I agree with her. There most be a point in time that we draw a line in the sand. I don't think the point addresses the original question, and that's just fine also as it add perspective.

There are far to many of use ending our lives over this pain, not to give a rat's arse about our 'sisters'. It is the exact same pain young people have about their own sexuality that they are taking their lives (with the help of bullies at school). I was that little fag who got beat up in school. The one who grew up to be the town drunk only to still not fit in. It took 3/4 of my live to sort this stuff out and I am still not done.

[Kathryn Martin]

This is what psycho-analysis believes. Unfortunately, no trans person has had their mind changed, ever. If someone gives up on wanting to transition, they were not trans to begin with, in my opinion. Not everyone transitions however, some kill themselves or live incredibly miserable lives. I did not transition until suicide was imminent, as in propably in the next two weeks.

I have a few friends who are TS properly diagnosed but have refrained from transitioning because their personal life situation required them to ensure the security of their children. Being a late transitioner for very similar reasons, I survived, barely years of constant suicidal ideation and several actual attempts. I believe it is impossible to put oneself in someones situation. Several months ago I wrote on this on my blog this:

Today, I read on Natasha’s blog, in one of the comments, the question posed: “but I am genuinely interested in how some endure longer?” referring to the so called late transitioners. I have been asked this question many times in the last year, in all variations, from different perspectives. Some like this young person could not understand why someone like me lasted over so many years, others like one of my closest friends asked simply: “why now, I don’t understand?” The difficulty with these question seeking the same answer just from different perspectives, is, that in the end both pre-suppose that it should not have happened.


The real answer is biographical, it is intensely individual, and intensely personal. When you really get down to it, it is the daily survival of one of the most insidious processes a person can undergo. If you ever read “The picture of Dorian Gray”, by Oscar Wilde, you understand the massive conflict between the life of your female person forever beautiful against the testosterone aged and devastated body you meet every morning.



If you are strong enough and some are, to break out of your family and society imposed paradigm of a boy or man early in your life, then, if you survive that process, all the best to you. But some don’t, some of us are more fragile, fearful or simply unable to overcome societal and family constraints to take that step early. Some of us, and I am one of them needed to mature, lay down the fear, grow strong and fulfill my promises to others before I could do so. As I said it is very complex, intensely individual and very, very personal.


In my view both questions try to impose guilt. The first says, by rights you should not exists, the second one says by rights what you have done should not exist. And I am not buying it.

I do agree with you Frances is that transsexualism is not, let me repeat NOT a mental condition. Whatever mental problems transsexuals have are secondary to the in-congruence the person experiences. The depression is a result of finding yourself in a body that is not congruent with the gender you are born with.

Transition is not optional in the final analysis but it is all too often held back for far too long.

[Aprilrain]

I think the option is transition or death or maybe worse a living death but that probably just kills people eventually. i don't believe you can be gender dysphoric and still function. At the vary least depression would cause the sufferer to be more or less useless to anyone.

[Rianna Humble]

"I would transition in a heartbeat if I could.
There isn't a day that goes by where I don't think about the different moments in my life where I should have accepted those feelings I kept repressing and had opportunities to initiate the road to womanhood.

The only thing that keeps me confined to a closeted CD, is my love for my kids and wife."

This is a quote I pulled from the CDer section. It came out of this thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?153657-Do-you-want-to-be-a-woman

I think that this person is certainly transgender and may be transsexual. Remember all of us who transition late in life have tried frantically to cope with our gender dysphoria in many ways before becoming so desperate that we had to transition. I did not become TS the day that I found I could no longer carry on living without transition, I have been TS all of my life, I just spent far too much of it in denial and then trying various coping mechanisms including cross-dressing.


So My question is can you be TS and not suffer GID? can you KNOW your are TS and not transition? Is this person implying that a love of family is sufficient to quite the compulsion to be yourself? Is that reasonable? I know it was not enough for me. I had a lot of fear about coming out but it seemed better than the alternative. Just some thoughts.

Question 1, I would reply yes - because for some short periods in my life, my dysphoria was not to the point of becoming a disorder.

Question 2, I would also have to reply yes - because otherwise, why did I not transition at age 7?

Question 3, people will go to extremes to protect their family, including self-sacrifice. What your quote reflects is a form of self-sacrifice to protect a wife and children. However, to use a common phrase around here, I don't think the person's bell has rung yet.

Question4, it is reasonable for as long as the person can live with the sacrifice. I couldn't any longer.

Not sure which of the 4 was your question, but I hope my answers have added something to the debate.

[Paula_56]

Ok so a hundred years ago when transition wasn't an option, those people who just suffer with this condition where not transexuals than??? So why would it be differentnow if one is somehow unable to transiton??? That being family responsibilities???

[Kathryn Martin]

I think the option is transition or death or maybe worse a living death but that probably just kills people eventually. i don't believe you can be gender dysphoric and still function. At the vary least depression would cause the sufferer to be more or less useless to anyone.

Except with massive doses of anti-depressants for years which keep you functional. Ultimately I believe there is no choice but an ability to decide your own fate within your destiny.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula I have no doubt that a hundred years ago, and five hundred years ago,
transsexuals were taking advantage of the best technology available at the time..
and i would not be surprised if many of them died from suicide or being murdered..

[Frances]

Ok so a hundred years ago when transition wasn't an option, those people who just suffer with this condition where not transexuals than??? So why would it be differentnow if one is somehow unable to transiton??? That being family responsibilities???

Read Transgender warriors by Leslie Feinberg for a historical perspective on transsexuality. People have been transitioning to the best of their abilities forever.

[Debglam]

So My question is can you be TS and not suffer GID? can you KNOW your are TS and not transition? Is this person implying that a love of family is sufficient to quite the compulsion to be yourself? Is that reasonable? I know it was not enough for me. I had a lot of fear about coming out but it seemed better than the alternative. Just some thoughts.

I can't speculate on the first question but the second I have asked also. Is the mere fact that you CAN make a conscious decision NOT to transition mean that your GID is not severe enough to classify you as a transsexual????

I do think that GID, like any other "illness" or "disorder" comes in varying degrees. "Transgender" on one side of the line and "Transsexual" on the other but has anyone or any source (DSM, etc.) clearly identified that line??? Is it even possible to do so or is it too keyed to the individual with GID???

[Traci Elizabeth]

What is incorrect is when someone says they are transsexual and has no desire to have SRS. That person is NOT a transsexual.

This is the first time I have ever read something you wrote on this topic that you used the word desire to have SRS. In the past you have always claimed that if you have not had SRS, then you are not a transsexual. This is one of the rare times I can agree with you that to be transsexual, you have to have the "desire" to have SRS not that you actually have had SRS.

[arbon]

Is this person implying that a love of family is sufficient to quite the compulsion to be yourself? Is that reasonable? I know it was not enough for me.

I think it should have been enough to have prevented me from coming out, but that is not the way it went.Still think to myself if I really loved my daughter, if I really care about her and want to be a good parent, I should stop this and go back into the closet. I have not been able to do that though, but I might.

[Aprilrain]

I think it should have been enough to have prevented me from coming out, but that is not the way it went.Still think to myself if I really loved my daughter, if I really care about her and want to be a good parent, I should stop this and go back into the closet. I have not been able to do that though, but I might.

cats out of the bag now Arbon! going back into the closet would do what for you?

[ReineD]

It's a good question and for the transwomen here, the answer is fairly clear cut. They do need to transition and until they do, they will be unhappy.

But, April, since you got the quotes from the CD side of the forum, I'd like to ask a general question to you and the other TSs about this. Do you believe it is possible for a person to not be just a male, and not be just a female, but have some sort of gender ID mix or blend? To be cognizant of their male proclivities while at the same time not fully identifying male? A third gender, so to speak. A true "trans" (mixture) state of being.

I ask because my SO is like this. She is not a transwoman nor is she a wannabe. She is also not a fetish CD nor does she live in a fantasy world. She loves being with women, she relates to other women as a woman, and there are many aspects of being a guy that he doesn't understand or agree with such as the stereotypical beer, sports, car, and hunting stuff. When she expresses femininity it is natural to her. She feels as close to a female as it is within her ability to feel. She goes out looking just like a regular GG. It's not about glam for her, although at times it has been just like anyone else.

Might someone like this live a life straddling both sides of the fence and if they do, does it mean they have any less capacity for feeling female as anyone else?

I don't know if I'm describing her accurately since I don't live in her skin, but I am just asking. The reason I ask, is if you believe there might be a chance that the people who posted sentiments that April quoted might also feel the same way. If they do, I've got to believe that it is challenging to live as a non-binary gender in a binary world. How do you describe your feelings to binary people such as cis-sexuals and transsexuals when you feel this way?

[Aprilrain]

I've got to believe that it is challenging to live as a non-binary gender in a binary world. How do you describe your feelings to binary people such as cis-sexuals and transsexuals when you feel this way?

indeed this must be challenging. However I don't think it is germane to the OP OR the quote I pulled. The person I quoted says she would transition in a heartbeat but....... is that how your SO feels?

[Katesback]

I would like you to show me where I said what you are suggesting I have been saying all along. On second thougth nevermind its pointless.



This is the first time I have ever read something you wrote on this topic that you used the word desire to have SRS. In the past you have always claimed that if you have not had SRS, then you are not a transsexual. This is one of the rare times I can agree with you that to be transsexual, you have to have the "desire" to have SRS not that you actually have had SRS.

[Traci Elizabeth]

It's a good question and for the transwomen here, the answer is fairly clear cut. They do need to transition and until they do, they will be unhappy.

But, April, since you got the quotes from the CD side of the forum, I'd like to ask a general question to you and the other TSs about this. Do you believe it is possible for a person to not be just a male, and not be just a female, but have some sort of gender ID mix or blend? To be cognizant of their male proclivities while at the same time not fully identifying male? A third gender, so to speak. A true "trans" (mixture) state of being.

I ask because my SO is like this. She is not a transwoman nor is she a wannabe. She is also not a fetish CD nor does she live in a fantasy world. She loves being with women, she relates to other women as a woman, and there are many aspects of being a guy that he doesn't understand or agree with such as the stereotypical beer, sports, car, and hunting stuff. When she expresses femininity it is natural to her. She feels as close to a female as it is within her ability to feel. She goes out looking just like a regular GG. It's not about glam for her, although at times it has been just like anyone else.

Might someone like this live a life straddling both sides of the fence and if they do, does it mean they have any less capacity for feeling female as anyone else?

I don't know if I'm describing her accurately since I don't live in her skin, but I am just asking. The reason I ask, is if you believe there might be a chance that the people who posted sentiments that April quoted might also feel the same way. If they do, I've got to believe that it is challenging to live as a non-binary gender in a binary world. How do you describe your feelings to binary people such as cis-sexuals and transsexuals when you feel this way?

I think "Little Richard" and "Jimmy Scott" are classic examples of someone living between genders.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I would like you to show me where I said what you are suggesting I have been saying all along. On second thougth nevermind its pointless.

It's Roller Derby time again!

[ReineD]

indeed this must be challenging. However I don't think it is germane to the OP OR the quote I pulled. The person I quoted says she would transition in a heartbeat but....... is that how your SO feels?

No. She knows she is not transsexual. She is analytical though and I've no doubt that over the years she has spent time and energy weighing the options as she meandered through her transness.

When I read the posts like the ones you've quoted I see people who are caught in between and who may not know how to express their feelings of being a blended gender. I take it they do feel feminine, but they are also OK with their masculinity (such as it is), and this is why they choose to maintain a balance. Like I said, it's got to be difficult to communicate something like this since we all grow up in a binary world amid either males or females, and maybe it requires a bit of reading between the lines.

This is only my take of the situation.

[Bree-asaurus]

I would like you to show me where I said what you are suggesting I have been saying all along. On second thougth nevermind its pointless.

I have seen you say that as well. It's one of the reasons I really started not liking you. You said that if someone is transexual they will find a way to get SRS AND If someone doesn't get SRS, they're not transexual. I wouldn't have been so opposed to what you had said then (or opposed at all really) if you had used the word "desire" in there.

I believe that if you are a transexual, you must have the DESIRE to get SRS. But I don't necessarily think that every transexual who weighs their own pro's and con's will CHOOSE SRS.

[Katesback]

I have never said what you are suggesting I have said. I am certain of that. I have always said that someone who claims to be ts had better have the desire to get srs or they are not ts. I have said that people that want to keep thier penises are not ts. Its another way to say the same thing.

As with the other person I would love for ya to find where I said what you are suggesting I said. More importantly I submit that some of the other girls here will say yea I have read what Kate said and corelate with me.

Problem is with this place a very common problem is people read and intrepret what is in text in a manner that they want. I cannot tell you the 1000s of times I have seen people go all off on someone for saying something and someone else drawing thier own conclusion outside of the meaning of the words.

Perhaps one of my absolute favorites was last week when someone made a statment that had no variation for a disending opinion. This statment said that either choice made was reasonable. The funny part was then some girl comes in and says that she cannot agree with the post. I and several others pointed out to her there was no option to not agree with the post. I Dont think she ever got it. I also dont think she actually read the words.

Needless to say perhaps this reading what you want to read into clear and decisive text is part of what makes this forum so entertaining. I could say the sky is blue and someone on here would disagree with me and then go on to say its red.




I have seen you say that as well. It's one of the reasons I really started not liking you. You said that if someone is transexual they will find a way to get SRS AND If someone doesn't get SRS, they're not transexual. I wouldn't have been so opposed to what you had said then (or opposed at all really) if you had used the word "desire" in there.

I believe that if you are a transexual, you must have the DESIRE to get SRS. But I don't necessarily think that every transexual who weighs their own pro's and con's will CHOOSE SRS.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have seen you say that as well. It's one of the reasons I really started not liking you. You said that if someone is transexual they will find a way to get SRS AND If someone doesn't get SRS, they're not transexual. I wouldn't have been so opposed to what you had said then (or opposed at all really) if you had used the word "desire" in there.

I believe that if you are a transexual, you must have the DESIRE to get SRS. But I don't necessarily think that every transexual who weighs their own pro's and con's will CHOOSE SRS.

BRAVO! BRAVO! I salute you! Job well done!

[Aprilrain]

I could say the sky is blue and someone on here would disagree with me and then go on to say its red.

Actually its indigo : P

I have to admit that kate is right, she has never said that one has to HAVE SRS to be transsexual she has always said that if they don't want it that they are not TS. she has pointed out that some can't because of various reasons. i have a good memory and remember all the stupid shit you guys post!

[Bree-asaurus]

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?155896-What-being-a-TS-is-NOT&p=2535056&viewfull=1#post2535056

I went through the process that few have and I stand here and say if your not willing to follow through with the transition process then you are not like me, you are not transsexual, and you are not a woman because women don't have penises.

Many people may not be willing to transition for whatever reason, but they can still have the desire to transition.

[*Vanessa*]

Talking to the point; ‘At what point is a transsexual a transsexual.

At some point in one’s life the thought of wanting to be a woman becomes an issue. At that time we think we are on some disassociated path with the rest of society and we try connecting with humanity. That connection, that willingness to select, is not given at birth. We recognize in ourselves at some time in our future (from birth) we are different and need to change. From that point on we randomly select closer and closer identities from out social surrounding and pop-culture things that mean something to explain who we are until something matches our needs. Bi-gender / Transsexual

To suggest that Vanessa cannot be a transsexual because she has no ability to transition is absurd.

To fit in and try maintaining a normal existence is totally within the confines of the individual. When we breakdown and implode under the psychotic load of just trying to fit in we may think we are doing fine, yet it is obvious to the people all around us we are having a dangerously tough time. To suggest that if a person does think in a certain why, then they must not be part of the statuesque that is very misleading and somewhat dangerous. In order for us to advance we must go beyond the statuesque of psychoanalysis.

As we find ourselves we move in constant flux, gathering bits of information and change our opinions as we get better informed. Is transitioning optional? Yes. Does that mean that the person not electing to transition will have a better life for it? No. Transitioning does not make a person clairvoyant therefore we have no idea what our lives will be tomorrow. We can only hope for happiness, no matter how much pain we go through to get there.

Note: Paula I though you where speaking figuratively (and still do), which made since to me. There was nothing that sounded anything like transsexuals where I was raised.

To the OP: I think the individual was suggesting that as parents our love for the children is far greater than their own life. So the thought of suffering untold horrors for not transitioning is far less agony.

[Aprilrain]

To the OP: I think the individual was suggesting that as parents our love for the children is far greater than their own life. So the thought of suffering untold horrors for not transitioning is far less agony.

So those of us with children who transition don't care about or love our children? trust me in my case doing what I have done was better for everyone in the long run!

[Bree-asaurus]

So those of us with children who transition don't care about or love our children? trust me in my case doing what I have done was better for everyone in the long run!

I don't think that's what she meant at all. I think you are reading too much into it. In HER MIND she FELT like it was the better choice. It doesn't matter if she's really made the right decision or not, it's how she felt.

[*Vanessa*]

So those of us with children who transition don't care about or love our children? trust me in my case doing what I have done was better for everyone in the long run!

nonono that isn't what I am saying at all April.

[Aprilrain]

nonono that isn't what I am saying at all April.

Im not pointing fingers. Im just saying that that sort of logic implies that one who does transition is leaving her kids out to dry!

[Rianna Humble]

I think the individual was suggesting that as parents our love for the children is far greater than their own life. So the thought of suffering untold horrors for not transitioning is far less agony.

So those of us with children who transition don't care about or love our children? trust me in my case doing what I have done was better for everyone in the long run!

Your reply does not follow on from Vanessa's point at all. Some parents have literally laid down their lives for their children. That fact does not make you a bad parent it makes you have different circumstances in your life to those who had to die so that their children could live. Please do not impute extremist sentiments where they do not exist.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think it should have been enough to have prevented me from coming out, but that is not the way it went.Still think to myself if I really loved my daughter, if I really care about her and want to be a good parent, I should stop this and go back into the closet. I have not been able to do that though, but I might.

If you are not transitioning "for the kids"..you are implying that people that transition are bad parents..don't do that yourself or to me ..what good is a cypher of a dad...many kids end up bitter that their father never told them and feel guilty that their dad is unhappy because of them..

I have teenage daughters...they are great kids...their dad is a girl... i am amazed and gratified that the love and affection i showered them with over many years was rewarded by their acceptance and love...

dont get me wrong its hard ..i have suffered alot of guilt and there are times when i just break down and think about my poor kids...but i realize as i live day to day that those moments are about me!! they care more about the divorce than my womanhood

job one is to get their mother on board....if you can't do that, its a tougher issue..this is unfair but true



+++++++++++++++++

Kate you said it many times!! I loveya but admit it and move on.
I've always described it as a desire...i think its great if your thinking is evolving on these matters..i know my thinking has evolved alot over the last years..

[Julia_in_Pa]

Many people use the excuse of family, job or otherwise not to transition.

They find the thought of possible total loss to be too much and the excuses begin.

I'm not blaming them for being terrified, they have far too much self abasement and guilt for not transitioning to last many lifetimes.

Now concerning whether keeping one's penis by choice makes them somehow not TS.

I'm IS not TS. 'm intersexed yet I (at least thus far) have opted for no SRS at this time.

I have a friend who is also intersexed and has transitioned to full time that does not want SRS surgery.

She is content with her penis. She is also content with her fully developed overies and fallopian tubes.

Was does that make her?

Yes, you can be "transsexual" and keep your original equipment by choice.

Was this statement someone made excluding intersexed individuals?

Do you see the intersexed as a condition outside the circle of the term "transsexual" ?

I don't mind my penis and use it to satisfy my fiance yet biologically I am somewhere between xx and xy.

I challenge that statement by my very biological makeup and will dismiss it as the falsehood that it is.


Julia

[Katesback]

I am the one who made the statement. I am going to say that the intersex thing is a whole different bag of worms and one I have little insight into. I find a lot of people these days use the intersex thing as a way to explain themselves with a plausable medical scenerio. Its so easy I myself have occasionally thought about using it when I was working with trans people to explain myself. Like I said its so easy to say you were born with both parts (or a combination thereof).

I will say that intersex or not. If you present to the world a female and you have a penis between your legs that of which you wish to keep, your cutting yourself short because ya dont match.

Katie





Many people use the excuse of family, job or otherwise not to transition.

They find the thought of possible total loss to be too much and the excuses begin.

I'm not blaming them for being terrified, they have far too much self abasement and guilt for not transitioning to last many lifetimes.

Now concerning whether keeping one's penis by choice makes them somehow not TS.

I'm IS not TS. 'm intersexed yet I (at least thus far) have opted for no SRS at this time.

I have a friend who is also intersexed and has transitioned to full time that does not want SRS surgery.

She is content with her penis. She is also content with her fully developed overies and fallopian tubes.

Was does that make her?

Yes, you can be "transsexual" and keep your original equipment by choice.

Was this statement someone made excluding intersexed individuals?

Do you see the intersexed as a condition outside the circle of the term "transsexual" ?

I don't mind my penis and use it to satisfy my fiance yet biologically I am somewhere between xx and xy.

I challenge that statement by my very biological makeup and will dismiss it as the falsehood that it is.


Julia

[Julia_in_Pa]

Or perhaps I'm enjoying everything my body has to offer. ;O)



I am the one who made the statement. I am going to say that the intersex thing is a whole different bag of worms and one I have little insight into. I find a lot of people these days use the intersex thing as a way to explain themselves with a plausable medical scenerio. Its so easy I myself have occasionally thought about using it when I was working with trans people to explain myself. Like I said its so easy to say you were born with both parts (or a combination thereof).

I will say that intersex or not. If you present to the world a female and you have a penis between your legs that of which you wish to keep, your cutting yourself short because ya dont match.

Katie

[Traci Elizabeth]

[QUOTE=Bree_K;2636234]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?155896-What-being-a-TS-is-NOT&p=2535056&viewfull=1#post2535056

Quote Originally Posted by Katesback
"I went through the process that few have and I stand here and say if your not willing to follow through with the transition process then you are not like me, you are not transsexual, and you are not a woman because women don't have penises."


Ah Bree you beat me to it!!! So what say Kate mow? This kind of arrogant "Holier Than Thou" attitude is why many of us discount most of what she states. Instead of being supportive she demeans all transsexuals who are either pre-op or because of reasons that are really none of our business can't or don't get SRS.

[Katesback]

Nice try you two but unfortunately you are quoting only a very small portion of a post I wrote. Why dont you post the entire four paragraphs and then also take into account the discussion we were talking about because your not doing that either. But hey if it makes you feel better thats all cool.




[QUOTE=Bree_K;2636234]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?155896-What-being-a-TS-is-NOT&p=2535056&viewfull=1#post2535056

Quote Originally Posted by Katesback
"I went through the process that few have and I stand here and say if your not willing to follow through with the transition process then you are not like me, you are not transsexual, and you are not a woman because women don't have penises."


Ah Bree you beat me to it!!! So what say Kate mow? This kind of arrogant "Holier Than Thou" attitude is why many of us discount most of what she states. Instead of being supportive she demeans all transsexuals who are either pre-op or because of reasons that are really none of our business can't or don't get SRS.

[Traci Elizabeth]

[QUOTE=Katesback;2636542]Nice try you two but unfortunately you are quoting only a very small portion of a post I wrote. Why dont you post the entire four paragraphs and then also take into account the discussion we were talking about because your not doing that either. But hey if it makes you feel better thats all cool.



The words we posted about what you said is a direct quote and speak for themselves and is very indicative of your negativism towards Gals or Guys who are not like you. Like I stated, you are the most Holier-Than Thou" person I have ever met. Almost all of your posts are counter-productive. Plus when you get caught in your own words that you state you never made, you try to come up with some justification for your arrogance.

To the OP, who asked if transition is optional. Transition can be whatever you want it to be or what works best for you. You owe no one an explanation as to why you choose the road you want to travel. Some of us struggle with who we are for decades and hopefully before we die, become comfortable in our own skin.

But then again, I don't spend my life going in circles and spinning my wheels.....Long live the Roller Derby Queen.

[Katesback]

Once again your blowing it out of your ___. You did not quote my entire post. As I said earlier it is cronic that people can draw conclusions from all sorts of things that were not said. If that makes you feel good then thats fine. If you wish to call me whatever thats fine as well. I personally could care less. Its all for entertainment these days dear.

By the way your doing a very good job of spinning something the way you want it. Have you thought about becomming an activist? Ya might do a good job at it.

Katie




[QUOTE=Katesback;2636542]Nice try you two but unfortunately you are quoting only a very small portion of a post I wrote. Why dont you post the entire four paragraphs and then also take into account the discussion we were talking about because your not doing that either. But hey if it makes you feel better thats all cool.



The words we posted about what you said is a direct quote and speak for themselves and is very indicative of your negativism towards Gals or Guys who are not like you. Like I stated, you are the most Holier-Than Thou" person I have ever met. Almost all of your posts are counter-productive. Plus when you get caught in your own words that you state you never made, you try to come up with some justification for your arrogance.

To the OP, who asked if transition is optional. Transition can be whatever you want it to be or what works best for you. You own no one an explanation as to why you choose the road you want to travel. Some of us struggle with who we are for decades and hopefully before we die, become comfortable in our own skin.

But then again, I don't spend my life going in circles and spinning my wheels.....Long live the Roller Derby Queen.

[Traci Elizabeth]

[QUOTE=Katesback;2636581]Once again your blowing it out of your ___. You did not quote my entire post. As I said earlier it is cronic that people can draw conclusions from all sorts of things that were not said. If that makes you feel good then thats fine. If you wish to call me whatever thats fine as well. I personally could care less. Its all for entertainment these days dear.

By the way your doing a very good job of spinning something the way you want it. Have you thought about becomming an activist? Ya might do a good job at it.

Katie [QUOTE]


The words of a defeated Transsexual.

[ReineD]

I'm shutting this thread down. It has reached the point of personal attack.