Bi, when dressed [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Marie-Elise

10-26-2011, 03:22 PM

I'll go out on a limb here and I know there is at least one philosopher on this board so it might take an interesting turn.

An actor playing a role takes on the character's persona and characteristics. Method actors are known for immersing themselves in their characters to the point they have been known to remain in character even when the cameras are not running or they are not on stage. The point is that actors, in taking on a role, often absorb characteristics of the character they are portraying, sometimes, very convincingly.

In the case of the OP, is it possible that, in dressing as a woman, he takes on the characteristics of that particular woman who, I think we can all agree, is inside him. Is it possible that he, in his drab self, loves chicken wings and beer. But, when he is dressed, he prefers cosmopolitans and tapas. So, would it be a stretch to say that the woman inside him is bisexual but he is not?

Again, I think that by virtue of us being who we are (crossdressers), we do take on a role when we dress. Clothes, we know (by societal and own reactions) are more than just the fabric cut, sewn, and configured in certain ways. Clothes are an identity. We go to job interviews dressed one way and to a BBQ dressed in another way because they put forth an identity. Some may say they are identities.

By the way, in drab mode, I am very conservative; when I dress, it is as s provocative and borderline ****ty woman.

Are there flaws in this logic?

*Vanessa*

10-26-2011, 03:27 PM

Ya gotta agree with the crowd on this one. Bi is bi regardless :)

allyssa

10-26-2011, 03:36 PM

I totally disagree with the crowd...you can be whatever you want...you may not necessarily be "bi when dressed" though...it may be just a fantasy fullfillment, or wanting to conform to the role...either way, only YOU can tell YOU what you are!

Jean Marie

10-26-2011, 03:54 PM

I enjoy the nwomans role with a man, but cannot say I am attracted to a man, plus I have no interest in being with a man unless I am dressed

LilSissyStevie

10-26-2011, 04:15 PM

sissystephanie

10-26-2011, 04:34 PM

I am ME whether I am dressed enfemme or in drab. And I am not Bi in any sense of the word and never will be!! I do agree with those who said that you are Bi regardless of what you have on. Sexuality cannot be changed whenever you like! It is there and always will be!!

Adelina

10-26-2011, 04:41 PM

I think dressing does have a tendency to bring out something in you sexually that you may not feel when you're not dressed. When I'm dressed I am more likely to notice guys and want them then when I'm not, which is what I think the OP was trying to relate (maybe?)

And I am somewhat like Yang too, conservative in drab, ****ty and creative in dress.

JulieK1980

10-26-2011, 04:49 PM

I am just bi. It doesn't matter if dressed or not. However, it used to be the case for me. For myself, it removed all the guilt I had for being attracted to a guy in the first place. After quite a few years though, I came to realize I do like guys as much as I like women regardless of how I was dressed.

Perhaps you should explore those feelings more thoroughly. It could be the dressing just makes it feel less odd for you.

cassandra54

10-26-2011, 05:35 PM

nope, last two experiences i had with men, I was NOT dressed. i COULD get into it if the situation was right, but i'm not holding my breath anymore. bi and being dressed is not a good combination, because most men who say they are bi and are interested in guy who dresses are sleazy and looking for a freak show. on top of that a lot of guys who say they are bi, are not really bi, they are just looking for a quick thrill.

last time my SO and i were intimate, I was NOT dressed. after being on this forum, learning so much about myself and reading a ton of posts, being enfemme has nothing to do with sex or having to be that way to enjoy myself. don't get me wrong if a situation presented itself, i would do it, but the chances of that are slim and none.

ErikaFunGirl

10-26-2011, 05:41 PM

I used to think I was only bi when dressed too, but then I realized that wasn't really the case. We are who we are.

sherib

10-26-2011, 05:41 PM

Nope, nada, nyet it ain't happening. If your Bi, your Bi. Being a CD, just make it easier to say your Bi.

Josie M

10-26-2011, 05:46 PM

I've heard of this concept (in some cases from gay friends of mine) called "hetro-gender". This refers to a crossdresser that takes on a sexual orientation according to the gender they are presenting. You might be bi.....or you might just be enjoying being accepted and treated as a woman. From my gay friends, I've often heard this with a certain amount of frustration. That is, they might be genuinely interested only to ultimately discover that the "hetero-gender" person is ultimately just playing a role. That is, they are not attracted to the person as much as they are the idea of being treated as a woman.

Obviously, I don't know your situation. You have to decide if being with a male is what "gets your motor running" or if it's really just being treated as a woman is what is doing it for you.

MissMarcie

10-26-2011, 05:47 PM

Bi, "only" when dressed?
Sorry. That does not compute.

That's in the same ballpark with "male lesbian" or "a little bit pregnant".

Caroline2tone

10-26-2011, 05:53 PM

Well, I am going against the flow. I am a heterosexual male, I have no interest whatsoever in any form of relationship with a man. However, as Caroline, all of that changes, the dichotomy of that has yet to arise but my mind identifies with the 'once naked' situation and I percieve that that will/would prove a challenge to overcome. On the plus side - when presenting en-femme I stay related to that mentally.
Perhaps I'll report back if the situation ever arises.

SandyR

10-26-2011, 05:58 PM

Bi is Bi. I agree, but you are not alone I assure you. When Dressed I have times when I want to head out for a drive in a nice skirt, do some shopping get a cup of coffee and there are times I want to put on a hot little Teddy, thigh highs, heels and open the door for my date.....

Wew......glad thats off my chest.

Hugs!

Sandy

Julie in Virginia

10-26-2011, 08:08 PM

Totally hate the labels. If in girl mode u fantasize (or more) about being with a guy - is this gay? Bi? As Julie, I'm very into cute guys, but that is not how I choose to spend the majority of my life. I say explore, discover what u like, and then enjoy! Don't worry what other people think.

Maxi

10-26-2011, 08:45 PM

You may Bisexual, but if you take an interest in CD/TG's too, would that make you a trisexual?

CO_Bobbie

10-26-2011, 09:30 PM

In the very simplest terms, if you are attracted to both sexes sexually, then you're Bi, the clothes you wear have nothing to do with it...

sanderlay

10-26-2011, 10:33 PM

allyssa wrote:
I totally disagree with the crowd...you can be whatever you want...you may not necessarily be "bi when dressed" though...it may be just a fantasy fullfillment, or wanting to conform to the role...either way, only YOU can tell YOU what you are!

yangstyle wrote:
I'll go out on a limb here and I know there is at least one philosopher on this board so it might take an interesting turn.

An actor playing a role takes on the character's persona and characteristics. Method actors are known for immersing themselves in their characters to the point they have been known to remain in character even when the cameras are not running or they are not on stage. The point is that actors, in taking on a role, often absorb characteristics of the character they are portraying, sometimes, very convincingly.

In the case of the OP, is it possible that, in dressing as a woman, he takes on the characteristics of that particular woman who, I think we can all agree, is inside him. Is it possible that he, in his drab self, loves chicken wings and beer. But, when he is dressed, he prefers cosmopolitans and tapas. So, would it be a stretch to say that the woman inside him is bisexual but he is not?

Again, I think that by virtue of us being who we are (crossdressers), we do take on a role when we dress. Clothes, we know (by societal and own reactions) are more than just the fabric cut, sewn, and configured in certain ways. Clothes are an identity. We go to job interviews dressed one way and to a BBQ dressed in another way because they put forth an identity. Some may say they are identities.

By the way, in drab mode, I am very conservative; when I dress, it is as s provocative and borderline ****ty woman.

Are there flaws in this logic?

JosieCD wrote:
I've heard of this concept (in some cases from gay friends of mine) called "hetro-gender". This refers to a crossdresser that takes on a sexual orientation according to the gender they are presenting. You might be bi.....or you might just be enjoying being accepted and treated as a woman. From my gay friends, I've often heard this with a certain amount of frustration. That is, they might be genuinely interested only to ultimately discover that the "hetero-gender" person is ultimately just playing a role. That is, they are not attracted to the person as much as they are the idea of being treated as a woman.

Obviously, I don't know your situation. You have to decide if being with a male is what "gets your motor running" or if it's really just being treated as a woman is what is doing it for you.[/B]

Julie in Virginia wrote:
Totally hate the labels. If in girl mode u fantasize (or more) about being with a guy - is this gay? Bi? As Julie, I'm very into cute guys, but that is not how I choose to spend the majority of my life. I say explore, discover what u like, and then enjoy! Don't worry what other people think.

I also dislike labels. I think they can give an inaccurate picture of who you truly are. And yet as a society we like labels as they help us give some some comfort in categorizing actions, things, people, etc... And yet labels can get in the way of being who you are. So... don't let anyone tell you that you can't... or you aren't. This is for you to decide.

But to answer your question... the clothes do help me get into the role... like I feel more vulnerable in a skirt compared to pants. Or being naked in heels. But I feel more vulnerable to a woman... and not a man. A man does not get my... "motor running"... only a woman. Now I do have some fantasy's... but I'm not bi. But who you are is up to you.

ReineD

10-26-2011, 10:38 PM

Maybe the OP means she is normally hetero except when she's dressed she also fantasizes about men ... which I guess is why she believes she is bi?

Not unlike this thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162478-Does-a-fantasy-mean-you-are-gay

Two different ways of wording the same thing, IMO.

Susan_Xdress

10-26-2011, 11:34 PM

If you are attracted to both sexes, then you are Bi-sexual. It doesn’t matter a damn if you are wearing high heels and a formal evening gown or a jockstrap.

ElusiveGirl

10-27-2011, 12:07 AM

OK perhaps some clarification is in order...

When presenting as a man, is the OP attracted to other men, men presenting as female (CD's), and/or women?

When presenting as female, does the OP's attractions to these groups shift in any way? If so, in what direction?

I have heard "straight both ways" as an orientation. As in only attracted to women when presenting as male, and only attracted to men when presenting as female. It isn't quite the same as bisexual, because it excludes man+man and woman+woman same-sex scenarios. Even if it is only gender play.

Confused yet? LOL

Someone asked if two CD's together would be gay or lesbian. I'd say half of each. Others might vote gay if they are focusing upon biology. Still others might vote lesbian if feminine sexual identity was the main issue.

We need better labels.

docrobbysherry

10-27-2011, 12:21 AM

We know that SOME here change clothes and change their gender at the SAME TIME!:straightface:

Whose to say others here can't change their sexual orientation when they change clothes?:eek:

I don't understand it and doesn't work for me. But then, I don't understand anyone eating at McDonalds either!:brolleyes:

Elizabeth Ann

10-27-2011, 01:07 AM

Do not be surprised, Brenda, by the forcefulness of these answers to your query. For many members, you are asking them to face threats that they do not want to admit exist, to be at risk and vulnerable with nowhere to take refuge.

We all need, or at least want very much, to have some immutable core of our being. It is the "real" us, the person we are when we are alone in the dark with our thoughts. But there is a problem with immutability. We grow older and our dreams change, we fall in and out of love, we find our needs adjusted by advertising, our politics and religion evolving with experience. And we, who think of even gender as fluid, have even less firm ground upon which to stand.

I think this is the reason you have so many categorical statements expressed with such certainty on this forum. If "once a crossdresser, always a crossdresser," well then at least that can be added to our core being. But this makes it really frightening not to understand our gender, because we don't understand something about our core. There are usually two responses: the soul searching, agonized "why do I do this" threads, and the "don't worry, just enjoy" responses.

We learn to live with the contradictions. Some talk about the male and female "sides" within, or that they occasionally "express" a feminine personality. We go so far as to give each side a name. But which one is the "real" us? Our core being is suddenly a little less knowable.

So what is left to add to our core being, but our sexuality. We don't know whether we are "really" Joe or Jane, or both, but we cling to the belief that at least our sexuality is a constant in our life. If the sexuality of Joe and Jane is different from each other, then what is left of our core being? Many have responded that they are the same person, dressed or not. But something changes, or they would not bother to dress. Is it impossible to believe that some of those changes could involve sexuality?

Liz

eluuzion

10-27-2011, 02:03 AM

Hiya BT,

Welcome:hugs:
I like your hat!

If you start referring to BrendaT in the third person and start talking about “her” to the point of implying there is an additional separate “person (personality)” that is capable of independent thought & action which you are not responsible for…you will have a much better chance of finding some people on this forum that support that concept, lol. I am not trying to discount the credibility of those who adopt the concept. The logic and/or cognitive stretch required to support it simply does not exist in my world. (aside from diagnosed mental disorders, which I am not including as part of this topic)

To answer your question, I do not become “bi” when I dress any more than I become a real doctor if I wear a stethoscope and a lab coat. My perceptions, character, personality and sexual orientation might appear unstable or distorted to many people…but it is always consistent and exists as a single entitity…:).

:love:

BrendaT

10-27-2011, 03:08 AM

You will find that there are some around here that just cannot handle any kind of metaphor. So if you use a metaphor like "bi when dressed" or "male lesbian", it makes them go into full *TILT* mode. They just can't wrap their mind around it. After all, metaphors should be literally true. Right?
:brolleyes:

I take "bi when dressed" to mean that you cannot imagine having a sexual encounter with a male unless you are in the "female" role. You want to be dressed female and treated like a female by your male partner. That's different than a cis-gendered guy that is attracted to either sex and who sees himself as a guy in any combination of sex partners. I've had those "bi when dressed" kind of thoughts before so I can identify with it to some extent. But, I realized a long time ago that I'm not really attracted to males in any way.

Wow, didn't expect all the replies telling me what I am. I agree with the above, it is a metaphor to discribe exactly that I only find men remotely attractive when I'm dressed, and then I'm picky. I know I'm BI, I'm not confused about that at all, i was really asking a more light hearted question and I should have wrote it like this, "who here is bi and is really only attracted to men when dressed". If I'm in guy mode I might take a look at some really hot guy like Mark Whalburg, but I just don't think about it alot in guy mode. But OMG when I'm dressed I just feel much more attracted to good looking men.

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear.

joannemarie barker

10-27-2011, 04:02 AM

You can be whatever you want regardless of what anyone else says :) if you think your only bi when dressed that's fine :)

BrendaT

10-27-2011, 04:58 AM

You can be whatever you want regardless of what anyone else says :) if you think your only bi when dressed that's fine :)

Your right, this is America. Lol. You know I have never understood a man that dresses like a woman but doesn't have the same desires As a woman when dressed, but I would never presume to think I know their inner self and I would never say some absolute statement like, because you dress like a woman you must be gay or bi or anything else. I'm just not sure we still understand the human mind enough to make any kind of absolute statement about anyone else. I just try not to label people.

CINDYO

10-27-2011, 09:44 AM

Marie-Elise

10-27-2011, 09:58 AM

either you are "BI" or you aren't, you sexual orientation does not change by the clothes you wear. I mean really think about it!! That is just none sense to think a peice of clothing would change your sexual prefernce, Face the facts.

With all due respect, I completely disagree.

As one who did martial arts for years and competed in tournaments, I can say that my aggressiveness increased once I got into uniform and stepped into the ring. As a former soldier, I can say my uniform gave me a feeling of invincibility I did not feel in civilian clothes. Even now, when I dress, I am more careful about my eating and more considerate toward my wife.

Does dressing change my sexual preference? Not exactly. I son't fancy men in any way, but I do find I fantasize about my wife walking up behind me and handling me as I do her when I am in drab mode. I would also be open to her being the man with the help of a toy, if you get my drift. This is something that I never fantasize about with me in drab.

Again, I think that it's different for everyone but I do not find a change in sexual preference due to clothing to be improbable, unlikely or impossible. I find it very much in the realm of possibility and can say I have experienced shifting preferences due to what I am wearing.:D

Kathi Lake

10-27-2011, 10:17 AM

. . . I can say that my aggressiveness increased once I got into uniform and stepped into the ring. As a former soldier, I can say my uniform gave me a feeling of invincibility I did not feel in civilian clothes.Ah! I get it now! Your aggression and feelings of invincibility were in your uniforms and not in you. Putting on those clothes magically transferred those feelings (that were certainly never in you) to you. Wow, imagine; simple cloth that has the power to not only imbue the user with invincibility and aggression, but changes sexual orientation as well. Neato!

:)

Kathi

danielle.cd

10-27-2011, 10:35 AM

i can see why some of u say what u do and believe what u believe, could be from the way u grew up ,. some people dont believe in split personalitys some do . for me i dont like the male body regaurdless but there are day that i feel like im a female and my mood is like im looking through the world with the eyes of a female and other days im strictly male all the way . now im not turned on by the male figure at all but i love to see a sexy ******* when im in my femine mode , but when in male mode i dont see any atraction at all
its not just about the clothes, more the feelings that emerge from whereing them,

Marie-Elise

10-27-2011, 10:50 AM

Ah! I get it now! Your aggression and feelings of invincibility were in your uniforms and not in you. Putting on those clothes magically transferred those feelings (that were certainly never in you) to you. Wow, imagine; simple cloth that has the power to not only imbue the user with invincibility and aggression, but changes sexual orientation as well. Neato!

:)

Kathi

In a way, I suppose that's correct. Other examples are priests in the Catholic church. They perform mass in different clothing than when they go counsel folks at home. They also kiss that band (whatever it's called) before putting it on to perform any rites.

Superman, and other superheroes, always changed before going to fight crime. They probably had the same powers in or out of uniform, but they did not have the identity.

Take the Boston Tea Party: Why did they dress as Indians to go do that?

I know it isn't an intuitive concept but there have been many studies done about this. Just google "clothing and identity".

simplyme

10-27-2011, 10:57 AM

Can you be more specific? If you're just day dreaming and getting in touch with your girly side...maybe you would choose a different term other than Bi. Is it a day dream you wish you would act on?

simplyme

10-27-2011, 11:02 AM

Perhaps if you have a SO that would crossdress you two could act out your fantasy. I think there are very few women who would do that though.

denierdeluxe

10-27-2011, 11:34 AM

Hi Brenda, no you're not alone. Just because others don't regognize it doesn't mean it's not possible. I have similar feelings: never look at a guy. as hetero as they come....but...when dressed I am the girl, and all of a sudden I enjoy showing leg to guys and maybe even more, so bi when dressed. And people, if you can't agree with that, again, doesn't mean it can't be.

Kathi Lake

10-27-2011, 12:12 PM

. . . and maybe even more, so bi when dressed.It's that ". . . and maybe even more . . ." part that is the central truth, here. Doing things that you would normally never allow yourself to do or thinking thoughts you would normally never allow yourself to think - when you are simply wearing different clothing - that's just a fallacy.

You are correct, though. Clothes do indeed have power; the power to allow yourself to admit the truth - a truth that you may never admit when dressed as a male - that you do have feelings (yes, including sexual ones) for the same sex. Truthfully, the clothes don't have the power, you do. Own it, girl! Don't hide behind your clothing as your source of desire. Allow yourself to feel what you want to feel - no matter which side of the closet you get dressed from.

Kathi

ReineD

10-27-2011, 12:56 PM

Truthfully, the clothes don't have the power, you do. Own it, girl! Don't hide behind your clothing as your source of desire. Allow yourself to feel what you want to feel - no matter which side of the closet you get dressed from.

I think this makes a lot of sense. There are so many members here who refer to themselves dressed in the third person, as if it is someone else. I can only explain it to myself by believing that the construction of a sharp division between male mode and the female persona is the only way some men can cope with the feelings of shame over needing to express femininity?

I'm not a psychologist. This is just a sense I've developed over having read so many accounts of CDers who really do have a hard time with sharing themselves with their partners. They just don't want to talk about the CDing, as if there is a very thick internal wall, built to both protect their more vulnerable femme selves from harm, and also to prevent the outside world from seeing some of the guy's more feminine facets.

AndreaCD1963

10-27-2011, 01:11 PM

IMHO - you are who you are, regardless of your outer appearance / presentation. As so many others have said already, orientation doesn't change based on clothing. Perhaps willingness to allow yourself to accept it does when dressed.

I know that for me, I too thought for a long time that orientation and clothing choices were interconnected. But, as has also already been pointed out, IF the desires are acted upon then at some point the outer persona of the clothing is shed. Once I realized this for myself, I was able to disassociate orientation and dressing. I am simply me. I dress because it is something I have to do. My attraction to women or men is also something I can't control, it simply is what it is. I can only control my actions - and as I have a GG SO, I live hetro. But I'm still bi (and yes, she knows I'm bi).

Misti

10-27-2011, 01:25 PM

I'll go out on a limb here and I know there is at least one philosopher on this board so it might take an interesting turn.

An actor playing a role takes on the character's persona and characteristics. Method actors are known for immersing themselves in their characters to the point they have been known to remain in character even when the cameras are not running or they are not on stage. The point is that actors, in taking on a role, often absorb characteristics of the character they are portraying, sometimes, very convincingly.

In the case of the OP, is it possible that, in dressing as a woman, he takes on the characteristics of that particular woman who, I think we can all agree, is inside him. Is it possible that he, in his drab self, loves chicken wings and beer. But, when he is dressed, he prefers cosmopolitans and tapas. So, would it be a stretch to say that the woman inside him is bisexual but he is not?

Again, I think that by virtue of us being who we are (crossdressers), we do take on a role when we dress. Clothes, we know (by societal and own reactions) are more than just the fabric cut, sewn, and configured in certain ways. Clothes are an identity. We go to job interviews dressed one way and to a BBQ dressed in another way because they put forth an identity. Some may say they are identities.

By the way, in drab mode, I am very conservative; when I dress, it is as provocative and borderline ****ty woman. Are there flaws in this logic?

To the Op and Yang: "Not so's you'd notice it!" Sounds reasonable to me, besides, I really like that last paragraph, Yang! Rave on, sweetheart! :devil:

Sandra

10-27-2011, 01:28 PM

You are what you are and no amount of clothing will make you bi. Clothing doesn't make you bi...and those who think is does are in denial.

Elizabeth Ann

10-27-2011, 01:53 PM

It really surprises me how many have such strong and negative reactions to this thread. It is not, "doesn't happen to me" or "seems unlikely" or even "does experiment confirm this." No, it is categorical statements that this is absolutely, positively impossible.

Where do you get such knowledge? Is there some secret text of the divine rules of crossdressing that I have yet to find? It must be where all those other dogma are found, such as the one that states that if you start crossdressing, you were always a crossdresser and you can never leave. It is an observation of both philosophy and science that the only permanence is change. Only religion has the Absolute Unchanging Truth.

I have no idea whether sexuality is flexible enough to change when crossdressing, but I think it must be acknowledged as possible. Life is full of examples where we change our wants and desires because of outside stimuli. Forum members constantly talk of the changes that come over them when they dress. Why is sexuality singled out as the one characteristic that cannot possibly change when dressed? I have an uneasy feeling that it is because, for some, if such a change was acknowledged as even possible, crossdressing becomes a much more dangerous activity.

Liz

ReineD

10-27-2011, 02:44 PM

By the way, in drab mode, I am very conservative; when I dress, it is as s provocative and borderline ****ty woman.

Are there flaws in this logic?

Again, I think that it's different for everyone but I do not find a change in sexual preference due to clothing to be improbable, unlikely or impossible. I find it very much in the realm of possibility and can say I have experienced shifting preferences due to what I am wearing.:D

I wonder if you just have a very rich sexual fantasy life, combined with a strong libido and gender elasticity. How do you think you'd react if you found yourself in bed with another man? Maybe this depends on the strength of a CDer's libido, his fantasy, and his ability to throw himself into it? In other words, a fantasy might be enticing, yet in real life it wouldn't work?

Take little kids. Some have a strong ability to become the character they dress up as .. a super hero, or Peter Pan, or a favorite cartoon character. They throw themselves into it with the full force of their imaginations, while others just think the exercise is silly. They just can't let themselves go.

As to having different personalities dressed vs. not dressed, I wonder if you've created a sharp internal gender division in order to prevent others from seeing your feminine self over the years.

You should give your guy self permission to do some of the things that so far you've only allowed your femme self to do, like, I don't know ... dancing, or enjoying certain hobbies for example, and see where this leads you. :)

I wonder if the fantasies of being with a man while dressed (for someone who normally identifies as a hetero male) speaks to the fetish (for lack of a better term) aspect of the CDing more than sexual preference, even if at other times the motives for dressing aren't sexual.

GBJoker

10-27-2011, 02:55 PM

I am bisexual 24/7. My clothes do not affect my sexuality.

They do make it interesting or extremely uncomfortable (in a sexual way), depending on who I'm talking to though...

As to having different personalities dressed vs. not dressed, I wonder if you've created a sharp internal gender division in order to prevent others from seeing your feminine self over the years.

I do have different personalities though when in guy or girl clothes. I don't believe that is the reason behind this event though.

sanderlay

10-27-2011, 03:14 PM

Elizabeth Ann wrote:
It really surprises me how many have such strong and negative reactions to this thread. It is not, "doesn't happen to me" or "seems unlikely" or even "does experiment confirm this." No, it is categorical statements that this is absolutely, positively impossible.

Liz... I would have to agree. I don't want to tell anyone how they should feel... or think... or what they are not. How would they know? They are not me. I can only tell you about myself... how I feel. If it relates to you... then great.

BrendaT wrote:
Wow, didn't expect all the replies telling me what I am. I agree with the above, it is a metaphor to discribe exactly that I only find men remotely attractive when I'm dressed, and then I'm picky. I know I'm BI, I'm not confused about that at all, i was really asking a more light hearted question and I should have wrote it like this, "who here is bi and is really only attracted to men when dressed". If I'm in guy mode I might take a look at some really hot guy like Mark Whalburg, but I just don't think about it alot in guy mode. But OMG when I'm dressed I just feel much more attracted to good looking men.

Brenda... Thanks for the questions. It has been an education to see how others react to "dressing" and sexual attraction.

I'm not Bi... but sexual attraction is so complex and is obviously different for every person. But I refuse to think inside the box. I want to expand MY horizons... think different from the established norms. Because what is normal? Not me! Being a "bi-gender or two spirited person" is certainly outside the box... not average. Wearing clothing of both genders is not average or normal in our current society. I wish it was. So why should my sexuality be normal? It is my own.

Maddie22

10-27-2011, 03:34 PM

There are many people, especially folks outside the LGBT community (and even in the community for that matter) who believe that it is impossible for a man to be bisexual. These people believe that they are really just homosexual, and are not ready to come completely out of the proverbial closet.

From the responses on this thread, I believe it is reasonable to believe that many of us would disagree with the assumption that it is impossible for a man to be bisexual.

I would say that all of us in the forum know that just because you're a crossdresser doesn't mean you're homosexual.

So knowing all of this, why couldn't one be attracted to men only when dressed? There are people who are bi-gendered or gender-fluid. Why can't their orientation be fluid as well depending on the gender they are presenting or feel at the present moment?

Both gender and orientation are both on a continuum after all; why can we not grasp that differences can and will differ from each person to the next no matter how close they can be perceived to being like ourselves? Nothing is absolute.

ReineD

10-27-2011, 03:40 PM

I am bisexual 24/7. My clothes do not affect my sexuality.

They do make it interesting or extremely uncomfortable (in a sexual way), depending on who I'm talking to though...

I do have different personalities though when in guy or girl clothes. I don't believe that is the reason behind this event though.

What do you think causes the difference in your two personalities?

I think many people in this tread do not understand, me included, the idea of a split personality where tastes and sexual attraction change this drastically based on just the clothes that someone wears. You see it in children as they go off into fantasy land, but in adults? It almost seems dissociative. I'm not passing judgment but rather commenting on the idea that such a condition is in the DSM as "Dissociative Identity Disorder" and it requires psychiatric evaluation. Now maybe there is only a red flag when the different personalities aren't aware of each other, such as in the movies, "Sybil" or "The Three Faces of Eve"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Obviously all CDs are fully aware of their femme selves when they're in guy mode. But to be different personalities with different tastes and sexual attractions is something that I do not understand. I do understand a hetero CD having a fantasy about being with a guy, in order to emphasize the feeling of femininity during the fantasy though, and not because there is a real attraction to the guy. And of course if the CD is gay to begin with then nothing changes.

Momarie

10-27-2011, 03:58 PM

Elizabeth Ann

10-27-2011, 04:56 PM

I think many people in this tread do not understand, me included, the idea of a split personality where tastes and sexual attraction change this drastically based on just the clothes that someone wears. You see it in children as they go off into fantasy land, but in adults?

For a few around here, I have to wonder if cross dressing is just a convoluted way to allow themselves to have sex with other men without having to face facts.
That they are attracted to men.

Okay, one more time, but I am getting really tired of the patronizing "these children don't understand, but I know the REAL TRUTH" attitude.

Could we not turn Momarie's comment on its head: I wonder if denial of this possibility is just a convoluted way to allow themselves to dress without having to face facts. That their sexuality might be flexible. It seems just as plausible, but infinitely more threatening to one's self image.

Tastes and desires change constantly. I didn't want an iphone until I knew they existed, and I didn't want one after I got my android. No split personality involved. Yes, it is a trivial example, but the point is that human beings are subjective creatures. Water feels hot or cold depending on the temperature of our hand. And even our psychological makeup is subjective. We fall in and out of love in ways we claim are beyond our control. We often believe what we want to believe, and remember things in the way we want to remember. Even in the extreme, it is a common observation that soldiers go to their death at least in part because that is what is expected of them.

Several have stated here that they have bisexual feelings only when dressed. Instead of trying to understand it, many have simply rejected it outright. Which, of course, means they have to attack those individuals as wrong and deluded, unable to face the truth as all the rest of us know it to be. Why is this issue not even worthy of analysis and debate? Why must it be rejected immediately?

I would have thought this group in particular would be tolerant of nuance in your personality. Virtually everyone here talks of a "gender spectrum." If one of us tells the group we are at a certain point on that spectrum, their word is usually accepted. But if that person should attempt to wander across a "sexuality spectrum" they are immediately told that they are fooling themselves, that there are only three points: straight, bi, or gay. There is nothing else.

I don't know if there are people who are bi when dressed, but I know there are people who believe they are, and I have heard nothing on this thread to dispute this belief.

Liz

Badtranny

10-27-2011, 05:00 PM

For a few around here, I have to wonder if cross dressing is just a convoluted way to allow themselves to have sex with other men without having to face facts.
That they are attracted to men.

Just be happy with who you are and own it.
It's really ok...you have the right to be just who you are and life would be so much easier for you if you would just accept yourself.

Perfectly stated.

If clothes made me straight or manly, I would have found them and worn them 24/7 years ago.

Clothes don't make me anything except fashionably cute.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-27-2011, 05:30 PM

chloe23

10-27-2011, 06:00 PM

Frankly elizabeth it is not up to anyone to prove that clothes do not have magical sexuality changing powers... everybody just knows they don't.

there is no lack of tolerance here, just a lack of honesty...
hey guess what..it's ok to be a little gay now and then..

when i dated guys prior to my transition, every single guy would tell me he was not gay...but they all sure liked my body parts..

I agree with you Kaitlyn on this one, it all boils down to the male stigma thing...........with a pre-op woman, they feel they are not crossing the line that makes them gay or bi

LIKETODRESS2

10-27-2011, 06:05 PM

Well all i wear is panties so i am dressed ina way all the time so i am bi all the time but i was bi before i started to dresss so i am bi all the timne

bridgetta

10-27-2011, 06:35 PM

definition is a manmade thing.. nature does not make straight lines.. .. but.. me.. i dont get involved with it.

ReineD

10-27-2011, 06:36 PM

Okay, one more time, but I am getting really tired of the patronizing "these children don't understand, but I know the REAL TRUTH" attitude.

It was not my intention to compare CDers to children. But, I have observed that a fantasy life for a CDer can be very rich (have a look at many of the threads here ... one recently asked if others also experience PMS), perhaps richer than it is for non-CDing adults. Maybe this happens because many of the CDers need to repress their urges in order to function in their families, their jobs, and their society, and fantasy is a healthy coping mechanism. In fact, fantasy may be the only outlet for some people. But you cannot deny that daily, major personality and sexual attraction fluctuation is a concept that is foreign to people who do not experience this.

Tastes and desires change constantly. I didn't want an iphone until I knew they existed, and I didn't want one after I got my android. No split personality involved.

This is true, and I experienced the same when I migrated to a Mac from a PC. But this was a case of my tastes evolving over time, not switching back and forth on a daily basis. The people who describe personality changes are not describing trivial tastes, such as one day I may feel like eating fish while the next I may want chicken. They are also not describing slow changes over time. These are major, daily fluctuations. Back and forth. One person is extremely outgoing and uninhibited when dressed, yet reserved and shy as a guy. Why is this? One person likes men when dressed but not as a guy. I am not putting these people down, but not having experienced fluctuating sexual attractions, it is something I have difficulty understanding.

I do understand that a person might start out feeling they are hetero, and some years later realize they are bi, only to some years later settle on a same-sex attraction. I gather this is rather a normal progression for some people who come to terms with being homosexual. But switching back and forth and then insisting one is hetero? It just doesn't make sense.

Is is wrong to ask the questions, or to challenge the beliefs in order to try to understand?

I would have thought this group in particular would be tolerant of nuance in your personality. Virtually everyone here talks of a "gender spectrum." If one of us tells the group we are at a certain point on that spectrum, their word is usually accepted. But if that person should attempt to wander across a "sexuality spectrum" they are immediately told that they are fooling themselves, that there are only three points: straight, bi, or gay. There is nothing else.

I don't know if there are people who are bi when dressed, but I know there are people who believe they are, and I have heard nothing on this thread to dispute this belief.

I think most of us can pick up on rationalization or denial, especially those of us who have gone through similar denial. It is not being bi that is questioned or judged, it is the fact that a CDer abhors men when in guy mode, and fantasizes about them in femme mode. And it switches, day to day, not slowly over time as one would expect.

So the question is, is it a real change in sexual attraction .. would a dressed, self-reported hetero CD enjoy the real-life experience with a man and climax, or would he turn away in disgust when faced with the real-life situation? If he turns away in disgust then he is not bi, and his fantasies are not about a sexual attraction to any man. They are instead about seeking a level of heightened femininity in fantasy. If he loves the experience with a man dressed and he wants more, then he must be bi and he should look into facing the fact that he would feel this way even when he is not dressed.

If he can only love being with men when he fantasizes himself as a woman, then the sexual experience isn't so much about who he's with, but his fantasy about himself, such as experienced with autogynephilia (the love of oneself as a woman), and the guy then is just a prop. If this is the case, I would not want to be that guy. I would feel used. But, that's just me.

Elizabeth Ann

10-27-2011, 07:25 PM

SallyS

10-27-2011, 07:47 PM

I have to say that as a man I don't think about men in a sexual way!
However when I 'switch', I would say that I have thought about fulfilling my female desires:o

But a) I'm in a monogamous relationship and b) I just wouldn't know how to go about it:battingeyelashes:

The thought of another man getting near my man bits just doesn't do it for me!

I have the utmost admiration for all those who can a do live the life they desire....I'm happy, if not truly complete, but I choose not to physically explore the sexual side of Sally.

To those that do, I hope it's a exciting as I imagine it to be!?!

Rondalake

10-27-2011, 08:23 PM

I think I might beiing bi when I'm dressed but I've never been in a situation where I would know. I would be too frighten to actually find out. However, I often wonder about having sex while I'm dressed. After all I think this would be the ultimate expression of being a women.

Roni

wfmlover

10-27-2011, 08:29 PM

yes i think i'm the one

ReineD

10-27-2011, 08:37 PM

Reine,

Isn't this the very proposition that "bi when dressed" proponents are suggesting? This seems to me to be a reasonable statement of what they are experiencing. I would even go so far as to suggest that if sexuality is defined by actions, or even by immediate desires, these individuals are indeed straight in male mode and bi when dressed.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the man feeling used. I would suspect that he would have few complaints either way.

Liz

I'll give you that. I were a man having sex, then I guess I wouldn't spend too much time feeling used. :D

If sexuality is defined by real-life actions, then it is incorrect to assume that someone is bi just based on a fantasy. It is more accurate to say, "I am a hetero male who fantasizes about men when dressed because it emphasizes my femininity. The man is a prop, and in real life I'd run away screaming".

I do believe this is what the people in the thread are saying. You're bi if you do it and enjoy it (but then you'd be bi all the time, not just when dressed), but if you only fantasize about it then it's just a fantasy.

Or do I misunderstand what you are saying?

NathalieX66

10-27-2011, 08:40 PM

Rondalake, if it's any consolation, I can say that I've been out amongst those who were straigh/bi/gay.

In my case, guys are not my thing because I am not attracted to them, never was.
But there's one aspect about being out & about is that there are those who are interested in me. At best I've had guys compliment me, and buy me drinks , and what's neat about that is I feel like I'm being objectified in a very ladylike feminine fashion. it's a very unique feeling. What's bad about it is I feel like I'm being objectified in a very ladylike feminine fashion.
There has been an occasion or two where I've had to deal with the lone wolf that won't leave me alone. Try that one on for size....that's a problem real women have to deal with. I've had roaming hands on me too, which I don't dig,and my defenses go up.....I'm lez.
All I want to do is go out, be me and wear something pretty, and sometimes sexy. It's a difficult road, and all is not perfect, but i can see where the guys come in. If the idea of being swept off your feet by a gentleman is your thing, fine wonderful then enjoy the moment. I'll be hanging with the Melissa Etheridge/Ellen Degeneres crowd.

GBJoker

10-27-2011, 08:47 PM

What do you think causes the difference in your two personalities?

I have no idea. I've researched quite a bit on split personality disorders, and found that I am not even close to being diagnosed with anything like that. Despite that, there are two very different people depending on whether I'm dressed up or not.

And of course, my signature butthead answer: "If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it be multiple choice."

tastes

Can you explain this word further, so that I can give you the most definitive answer possible?

For a few around here, I have to wonder if cross dressing is just a convoluted way to allow themselves to have sex with other men without having to face facts.
That they are attracted to men.

Just be happy with who you are and own it.
It's really ok...you have the right to be just who you are and life would be so much easier for you if you would just accept yourself.

I dunno about many people on here, so I'm not entirely sure how accurate your statement might be. BUT!, for me personally, I knew there was something weird about me a long time ago; before I was old enough to comprehend sexuality and CD'ing, and so forth. I also learned, as I grew older, that the CD'ing does affect my sexuality, but that I am still attracted to both sexes no matter what clothes I have on. To clarify, I'm bi, I CD once every blue (red? harvest?) moon, and those can easily be seperated for me. I believe (based on being in chatrooms, if that counts for anything) that dressing up would bring... new, I guess, things to the bedroom... I dunno...

I started this thinking I had perfect answers, only to realize as I was typing that since I've little experience in both arenas (compared to normal people for the sex stuff, and the forum members for the CD stuffs) that I've yet to learn how to put into words exactly what's in my head.

We fall in and out of love in ways...

What is this... "love" you speak of?

Final thought, and I'll stop bugging you guys with super-de-duper long posts: This whole thread is insanely confusing... Especially if you don't know who is what and where is when and how is why.

And yes, I did do an exclamation point followed by a comma. What's your point?

Elizabeth Ann

10-27-2011, 11:02 PM

If he can only love being with men when he fantasizes himself as a woman, then the sexual experience isn't so much about who he's with, but his fantasy about himself, such as experienced with autogynephilia (the love of oneself as a woman), and the guy then is just a prop. If this is the case, I would not want to be that guy. I would feel used. But, that's just me.

Reine,

Isn't this the very proposition that "bi when dressed" proponents are suggesting? This seems to me to be a reasonable statement of what they are experiencing. I would even go so far as to suggest that if sexuality is defined by actions, or even by immediate desires, these individuals are indeed straight in male mode and bi when dressed.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the man feeling used. I would suspect that he would have few complaints either way.

Liz

I'll give you that. I were a man having sex, then I guess I wouldn't spend too much time feeling used. :D

If sexuality is defined by real-life actions, then it is incorrect to assume that someone is bi just based on a fantasy. It is more accurate to say, "I am a hetero male who fantasizes about men when dressed because it emphasizes my femininity. The man is a prop, and in real life I'd run away screaming".

I do believe this is what the people in the thread are saying. You're bi if you do it and enjoy it (but then you'd be bi all the time, not just when dressed), but if you only fantasize about it then it's just a fantasy.

Or do I misunderstand what you are saying?

Now I am a bit confused. I thought your hypothetical was of a crossdresser so caught up in the fantasy that she/he does consummate a relationship with a man. Operationally, this would appear to the casual observer as an individual who is straight in male garb, and bisexual in female attire, regardless of their internal motivation.

I assume from the posts in this thread, and elsewhere, that there actually are crossdressers who have sexual relationships only with women when in male mode, and include men as well when in female mode. This is what I meant by sexuality defined by actions. I didn't think discussants were denying the existence of such persons, only that they were deluding themselves about being straight. I suppose that in your scenario, many might argue that such a person was deluding themselves about being bi.

Liz

ReineD

10-27-2011, 11:55 PM

Now I am a bit confused. I thought your hypothetical was of a crossdresser so caught up in the fantasy that she/he does consummate a relationship with a man. Operationally, this would appear to the casual observer as an individual who is straight in male garb, and bisexual in female attire, regardless of their internal motivation.

I assume from the posts in this thread, and elsewhere, that there actually are crossdressers who have sexual relationships only with women when in male mode, and include men as well when in female mode. This is what I meant by sexuality defined by actions. I didn't think discussants were denying the existence of such persons, only that they were deluding themselves about being straight. I suppose that in your scenario, many might argue that such a person was deluding themselves about being bi.

Liz

It is confusing, and I'm sorry if it is taking me a few tries to articulate this.

First, I've seen posts here from CDers who were convinced that trans-admirers (the men who say they are straight, but who are specifically drawn to other men with penises who present as women)** are into them as women. The fantasy to perform as a woman sexually is so strong that the CDer will convince himself that he is a woman who is seeing a man who treats him like a woman, so therefore it is a heterosexual encounter.

Is this CDer gay since he is attracted to men? Or in his delusion of being a woman, is he straight? He thinks he is straight, yet by society's standards, these are two men who are having gay sex. They are homosexual, even though for a time, one of them identifies as a woman. Caveat: if the person who is presenting as a female is a non-op or pre-op transsexual, then she does identify permanently as a woman and so she, at least, is not having gay sex, even though the trans-admirer is. If however the man she is having sex with is not a trans-admirer and he ignores the penis and sees it as much as a hindrance as the TS, then neither of them are having gay sex.

There are too many "ifs". :p

I spoke earlier of a CDer who knows he is a man, identifies as a man most of the time and considers himself to be hetero while in male mode. If he has sex while dressed with a trans-admirer, they are both most definitely having gay sex since the basis for attraction is the other's penis. Even if this CDer's motive is autogynephilic, he is still having gay sex. If he enjoys his experiences with men, he is not hetero. If he also enjoys having sex with women whether he is dressed or not, he is bi whether or not he likes to admit it when he is in male mode.

If this same CDer has only ever had sex with women and the thought of having sex with a man is repulsive to him, I don't think this would change during an actual encounter with a man, no matter how much he uses a faceless man when he masturbates to an autogynephilic fantasy. In this case, the CDer would not be bi.

** These trans-admirers are not attracted to birth females and they drop transwomen as soon as they have SRS.

Elizabeth Ann

10-28-2011, 12:56 AM

I think you are having fun with me now. Let me see if I have got this. If he is a she, but really a he, and has sex with him, then she is bi, even when she is he. Unless he really is a she, in which case she is straight but the other is gay. Now if the other would rather he be a she, then they are both straight. But if she, who is really a he, would rather the other to be a her than a him, then she who is a he is just kidding him or herself. But I thought you, who really is a her, allowed the possibility that she who is really a he wanted so much to be a her, that she would have sex with him, but not when she is a he. That would seem to me, merely a he, that he when a she was bi, but not when she was a he.

I think I am going to cry uncle, or maybe it is aunt, and go to bed. She who really is a she is asleep up there waiting for me to be a he.

Sweet dreams,
Liz

BrendaT

10-28-2011, 01:33 AM

either you are "BI" or you aren't, you sexual orientation does not change by the clothes you wear. I mean really think about it!! That is just none sense to think a peice of clothing would change your sexual prefernce, Face the facts.

Hummm, the fact is I have stated that I am BI, ( by society's boxed standards of behavior) I am totally comfortable with it, love it, embrace it, that's the way I was made. But let me make this statement and see if it makes sense to anyone. Let me preface this statement with this, "this is not the way I feel, just making a point".

I think anyone who is a crossdresser is either BI or Gay, face the facts, quit hiding from your fears, it only makes sense that if you want to look like a woman then you must have the desires a woman has which is to be with a man. Anyone who says different is just living a lie. Your BI or Gay, deal with it.

Now, is that not a closed minded statement? Isn't that what we would expect from closed minded people that just can't come to grips with the fact we are not all the same? God or nature, depending on what your believe, has made us all different, unique, and special. I really started this thread to talk to folks that feel the way I do and instead I have tons of people telling me to quit kidding myself, admit it, bla bla. Truly I believed this would be the right place to talk about this kind of thing without being made to feel unusual or odd, but I can go to any forum on the net and get this kind of thinking. Not trying to pick a fight or anything, just stating a fact.

To the statement above about how a simple cloth can't have power to change someone. I was in the military for 21 years, and I agree that when putting on the uniform it changes the way you see yourself, all the years of tradition, and the history, the soldiers before you that wore the uniform embolden you and give you a total feeling of invincibility. That's why as I soldier I will move head long into a fight not thinking about my welfare but of others around me. That's why I will take great risk to do my job. Is that courage in me some where when I don't have on the uniform? Could be, but there are massive motivational forces acting on you when you pull on those combat boots and you see that American flag on your arm and your buddies standing beside you. So don't discount the power of the facade. Haven't you ever put on a really nice suit and felt different? Felt like you could take on the world? You look good, people think you look good, so your attitude changes about yourself.

By the way, what is nonsense is the way you spelled nonsense. Lol. Just kidding.

Bell

10-28-2011, 01:41 AM

First post!

Anyways, I am bi when dressed!
Don't find guys attractive but when I'm dressed I have the sexual desires of a woman.

Dixie

10-28-2011, 02:17 AM

Shhhhh statements of the "Absolute" are most definitely based on what each of us as individuals feel. I think this way so now that's how everyone must think or this is how I feel so you must feel the same way too. We are all individuals there are no absolutes. Anyone who says they are just want to make everyone else think or feel as they do to give themselves a sense of normality. Example I have a family trait wherein my appendix is in my back not out front, yet I have people tell me that it can't be so because everyone's appendix is in the front. I have relatives who have passed away because the doctors never considered looking anywhere for a ruptured appendix except for where it is "supposed" to be. I do not think anyone has the right to tell someone else who they are or what they must be because that is how they are or aren't!

kundthu1

10-28-2011, 03:07 AM

I think anyone who is a crossdresser is either BI or Gay, face the facts, quit hiding from your fears, it only makes sense that if you want to look like a woman then you must have the desires a woman has which is to be with a man. Anyone who says different is just living a lie. Your BI or Gay, deal with it.
i definately disagree with this statement. Just because she is 'BI' she assumes the whole community is like that. I do dress up regularly which does transform my personality making me more sensitive, emotional etc and take over the duties of home maker, but i never even thought of having a relationship with a man an still love the wonderful woman to whom I have been married

BrendaT

10-28-2011, 03:28 AM

Julie1123

10-28-2011, 04:34 AM

I'm at least bi-curious but I don't think it has anything to do with what I'm wearing.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-28-2011, 06:05 AM

i know i posted about the guys who claim they are not gay..
if you think i am bashing them, far from it...and the same goes for cd's that are "bi" but only in girl mode..

i'm saying don't worry about it.. perhaps you don't worry about it...that seems like the right answer.. these guys don't have to tell me they are or are not gay... we were having a moment...we were enjoying our time together...and yet they were compelled
to proactively tell me they were NOT GAY...this is even though they play with male sex parts...and even tho they are uninterested in me now! (the feeling is paramutual, i'm insured..if anybody gets that reference i'll hug them)..
my attitude was at first "whatever"...but it feels sad to me..

fantasizing about men and acting with men seems like a very natural extension of crossdressing for some people......to fantasize about femaleness and play that out with guys seems like a pretty obvious way to go out and about...
but at the core, if your a guy, and you are having sex with a guy...everybody knows what that is and its fine. ..

having been deeply involved in the out and about cd community for many years, i saw alot of sex going on between the crossdressed guys as well.
people ragged on the "creepy" admirers, let them buy drinks and then went had sex amongst themselves, cd with cd... this is very common...i would befriend a cd, and he would come on to me...in my years going out "en femme" i was hit on more by cd's than by admirers...

Badtranny

10-28-2011, 09:11 AM

Kaitlyn and Reine,

I can't help but be a bit of a cheerleader cuz you girls have firm grasp of this issue. I would expect Kaitlyn to understand, but once again I'm amazed at how clever and intuitive Reine is. I swear, if I didn't know any better ...

Anyhoo, some CD's are bi, or gay. End of story. The clothes aren't magic and sexuality is immutable. It is what it is. All of the pretending and justifying in the world is not going to change who you are. The guys that I date also claim to be straight. I don't argue with them, but I know that I still have working equipment and they sure know how to work it. Until being gay is no longer an affront to this country's prudish morality, then none of us are really free. I've said this before but there is apparently nothing worse than be considered to be something less than a man.

ReineD

10-28-2011, 09:48 AM

Let me see if I have got this. If he is a she, but really a he, and has sex with him, then she is bi, even when she is he. Unless he really is a she, in which case she is straight but the other is gay. Now if the other would rather he be a she, then they are both straight.

Precisely! :) The penis, in the last case, is an anomaly that simply gets in the way.

But if she, who is really a he, would rather the other to be a her than a him, then she who is a he is just kidding him or herself.

But if she, who is really a he, would rather the other to be a her than a him, then why is she having sex with him rather than the she whom she would rather be having sex with?

But I thought you, who really is a her, allowed the possibility that she who is really a he wanted so much to be a her, that she would have sex with him, but not when she is a he. That would seem to me, merely a he, that he when a she was bi, but not when she was a he.

If she, who is really a he, wants so much to be a her (during sex) that she would have sex with him, and enjoy it, then she needs to understand that she is bi, even when she is back to being a he having sex with a she.

I think I am going to cry uncle, or maybe it is aunt, and go to bed. She who really is a she is asleep up there waiting for me to be a he.

:D

... last night, I who am a she, also cried uncle. Actually my internet went out until this morning and now I have my second wind. :hugs:

Elizabeth Ann

10-28-2011, 09:50 AM

. . . some CD's are bi, or gay. End of story. . . sexuality is immutable. . . All of the pretending . . .

I long for such certainty in life. It would be a great comfort. But I cannot seem to find the source of this great knowledge of the transgender religion. Perhaps someone could point me to the sacred texts.

Badtranny attributes the "bi when dressed" position to homophobia, but consider the possibility that it is just the opposite. Some CD's are willing to admit that under certain conditions the could or have engaged in bisexual behavior. That does not sound homophobic to me. Others have a strongly negative reaction to this possibility. An argument could convincingly be made that some CD's are so frightened by the possibility of being "bi when dressed" that they must immediately reject the very concept, and attack those who do not as "pretending."

Liz

edit, adding another thought (since multiple posts would be merged by admin anyway):

I think this discussion has pretty much run it course. We have several persons who claim to have bisexual desires, and some activities, when dressed, but not when in male mode. To the external observer they appear to be "acting" as a heterosexual male at times, and as a bisexual CD at times. None of us can see what is inside their brains to completely understand their motivations, but that does not prevent all of us (including me) from speculating about it.

Regardless, some here assert that the bisexual times trump the heterosexual times, so that the person is unambiguously bi. It is a bit like saying that Obama is unambiguously black, even though you do know that he is half white.

I don't see any of us changing the other's mind on this, so I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

Liz

BrendaT

10-28-2011, 12:35 PM

Thanks so much for being closed minded and making me regret trying to talk with LIKE minded people. I didn't ask, do you think this is possible, I asked is anyone else bi when dressed. If your not, I truly wish you would have moved on and not replied. I really didn't expect to be told what I am, no one here has even met me but I'm glad it's so easy to judge me and tell me what I should be feeling and how life really is. Geezzzz... I would never suggest someone is not who they are or presume to think I am all knowing and here is the in stone truth about what you are. Moderator, please remove me completely from this site, I can get berated at any forum on the net so I'll just stick to myself. Im obviously to weird to be among you. Thanks.

ReineD

10-28-2011, 12:50 PM

Brenda, I'm sorry you feel this way, but your membership here cannot be removed unless you specifically request it from an Admin and give reasons why.

See this thread for a recent discussion about this:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162272-Deleting-an-account

And this page for the form to fill out if you wish to request your account to be removed: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=welcome#faq_account_removal

Also please understand this is a discussion forum. You asked if others are bi when dressed, and some people who are, also said their being bi is independent of the dressing. Then a discussion ensued. Everyone in this forum has strong views when it comes to gender and sexual identity since the topic hits so close to home for most people, and the discussion is more about the general principles than any individual. No one is taking away your feelings that you consider yourself bi when dressed and hetero when not.

Still, I will close this thread now. If you change your mind and want me to reopen it, send me a PM and I will.