progression!

[cdsara]

Since I have hid this my whole life I have never really been into fully dressing. Mostly I just like toi wear bras. but now that I am out to my wife she is afraid that I will progress into fully dressing. I cant answer if I will. now that its out I am afraid I will want more. I dont think she can handle that. Have any of you been in the same boat?

[J'lyn GG]

The time to answer this question for yourself was BEFORE you told your wife. You owed it to her to have all your ducks in a row. Now, you need to take the time to really think about it and/or experiment, if necessary, to find out. (Do your wife a favor and do your experimenting away from the home.) She deserves to have the most of the picture now. You have no idea how hard it is to sit and wonder 'what's next?' all the time.

[LeaP]

The time to answer this question for yourself was BEFORE you told your wife. You owed it to her to have all your ducks in a row. Now, you need to take the time to really think about it and/or experiment, if necessary, to find out. (Do your wife a favor and do your experimenting away from the home.) She deserves to have the most of the picture now. You have no idea how hard it is to sit and wonder 'what's next?' all the time.

The problem is one cannot (always) know before moving forward. Suppression is more than hiding. It prevents you from becoming. I suspect that for the OP, telling was the early gate opening. Your perspective on experimenting elsewhere and before coming out is interesting. I would think most SO's would want to know as early as possible and to be involved - or at least have the option. Pursuing something on one's own might be viewed negatively.

Lea

[Karren H]

Oh Yeah!! Beware!!! The pink fog precipitate creates a low friction slippery slope that will suck you into uber femininity in a flutter of your fake eye lashes!! A well known phenomenon.... Once you get on it its really hard to climb back up... Maybe impossible..... I've never been able to...

[J'lyn GG]

The problem is one cannot (always) know before moving forward. Suppression is more than hiding. It prevents you from becoming. I suspect that for the OP, telling was the early gate opening. Your perspective on experimenting elsewhere and before coming out is interesting. I would think most SO's would want to know as early as possible and to be involved - or at least have the option. Pursuing something on one's own might be viewed negatively.

Lea

My point is that his wife deserves to know, now, where he would like to go with his cding. I know this is not popular, but it is my personal belief. It is not fair to expect his wife to go along for whatever ride he wants to take her on. He should not leave her in the dark (I felt this was a given) as far as an experiment, but if he cannot JUST think it through, then an experiment might be the necessary thing. Again, it is not fair to expect one's wife to agree to something when she doesn't know what that 'something' is. He has already 'come out' to his wife, she is just concerned with it progressing and wants to know how far he wants to go with the cding.

[kimdl93]

While I'd agree that Tgsara's wife deserves to know, the problem that Lea points out is that it may be unanswerable. I doubt that many of us know where this might lead. Its unrealistic to expect a CDr to predict the future and its irresponsible to presume that a CDr will necessarily progress from occassional dressing to a full time thing. I know that its difficult to live with uncertainty - but such is the nature of life.

[LeaP]

While I'd agree that Tgsara's wife deserves to know, the problem that Lea points out is that it may be unanswerable. I doubt that many of us know where this might lead. Its unrealistic to expect a CDr to predict the future and its irresponsible to presume that a CDr will necessarily progress from occassional dressing to a full time thing. I know that its difficult to live with uncertainty - but such is the nature of life.

That's exactly right. That said, Tgsara, you really do need to be forthcoming with whatever you actually DO know or perhaps even suspect. On experimenting, J'lyn, I presume the point was not to subject Tgsara's SO unnecessarily to things for which she is not prepared. But I'd disclose the activity and the intended purpose.

Karren's right on the probabilities. Lots of things in life take us down unknown paths, however: hobbies, politics, volunteering, civic groups, education, children, etc. Then there's the harder side of life: death and disability, illness, job loss, and so on. (Unfortunately, disclosure of CD'ing is probably viewed in the latter category by most.) All of this carries the potential for separate interests and lives ... along with the corresponding implications for relationships. The only way to even have a shot at heading off problems is full-hearted engagement. It's not HIS ride, it's THEIR ride, depending on expectations in the relationship, of course.

Lea

[ReineD]

Since I have hid this my whole life I have never really been into fully dressing. Mostly I just like toi wear bras. but now that I am out to my wife she is afraid that I will progress into fully dressing. I cant answer if I will. now that its out I am afraid I will want more. I dont think she can handle that. Have any of you been in the same boat?

Yeah, that's a tough one. You can't really know how far you might want to take it until you experiment with different situations, and you can't experiment if your SO doesn't know about you.

The safest bet would be to tell your SO that most CDs eventually do want to look passable enough to be able to go out in public and blend in among the crowds, since going out looking like a man who is wearing a dress would invite less than savory comments. Of course, this means making certain changes such as shaving exposed parts of the body (lower leg, upper chest, and clipping back arm hair). It also means trimming back the bushy eyebrows although you can certainly do this without creating a feminine arch, and getting accessories such as breast forms, hip pads, and waist cinchers, plus wearing makeup and a wig.

A CDer can do all this and still be very much a CDer who does not wish to transition. My SO presents as a full on woman a few times per week and he is perfectly happy being a guy the rest of the time.

I do believe that most wives are afraid their husbands will increasingly want to become women, and so when they see the changes that are required in order to "pass" as women, it is easy to confuse the two. If you are solid in your male identity, I would tell your wife this and reassure her that you do not intend on changing genders.

On the other hand, if you are not sure of your gender identity, then I'd go see a gender counselor. :hugs:

[Stephanie47]

The female sex can be funny. I had the reverse. My wife knew, participated to an extent, bought me panties, hosiery and nightgowns UNTIL she found my nice red bra. That she could not understand, since I had really nothing to pack into it. You know you're going to progress further. A nice bra needs a matching panty, which needs a proper garterbelt and hosiery, which needs a nice coordinated slip. Of course, a woman cannot go outside like THAT. You'll need a nice dress and heels. And, if you do not want to appear as a guy in a dress, you'll need some makeup and head covering (wig).

[Eryn]

My point is that his wife deserves to know, now, where he would like to go with his cding. I know this is not popular, but it is my personal belief. It is not fair to expect his wife to go along for whatever ride he wants to take her on.

I think that this was covered by the "for better or worse" clause of the wedding vows.

If he truly doesn't know where he is going (as I didn't, and still aren't completely sure) then he would be lying if he made promises to her that he wasn't sure he could keep. The best thing that he can promise is to keep communications open and to keep her in the decision loop about future developments. If she is smart she will realize that this empowers her to lend direction to those developments if she wishes to do so.

[candykowal]

The geneie is out of the bottle. Might as well tell her you don't, or do know where this will lead...let your feeling flow and be prepared to let the chips lay where they fall.

[marlaNYC]

as others said, you never do know. sometimes, the mere act of revealing a secret can take away all the power, all of the fear that goes along with that secret and it becomes a non-issue, in that the concealing was more powerful a desire than the dressing. of course, it can work the other way - floodgates can open! i wish you well in your search and hope you always remember to keep your wife in the loop

[rebecca.cross2]

I think that this was covered by the "for better or worse" clause of the wedding vows.

If he truly doesn't know where he is going (as I didn't, and still aren't completely sure) then he would be lying if he made promises to her that he wasn't sure he could keep. The best thing that he can promise is to keep communications open and to keep her in the decision loop about future developments. If she is smart she will realize that this empowers her to lend direction to those developments if she wishes to do so.

Sorry Eryn, but Honestly? Covered by the for better or worse clause? Really? Where on earth would crossdressing come into play at all with marriage vows. If a spouse is not capable of dealing with CDing, I think it is an honest "out" for the marriage if it was not discussed beforehand. Crossdressing is a big enough thing that it should be covered prior to committing to marriage, so the SO has the option to leave if it is not something they are going to be able to deal with. Not every SO has the mindset to be married to a crossdresser. Heck, I find it very hard being a crossdresser. There is alot of stress at times. I could not imagine having to deal with the same issues from a 3rd party point of view.
A SO should have the right to know where the crossdressing might go. If a crossdresser is in a valued relationship, they should also be willing to make committments to their SO on how far their crossdressing will go. A marriage is a partnership. Both parties must negotiate and make sacrifices. I do find myself a bit irritated hearing CD's saying that the SO should just accept it and go along for the ride and see where it will go. I know that I would not want to make a long term committment under blind expectations, and I would not expect my wife to it either.
I told my spouse whare my crossdressing will go. How do I know? Because I asked myself the tough questions. I answered all of my own unknown questions, and now I feel like a better person for doing it. My wife knows how far I want to go with my dressing, how often I want to do it, and what I want to do when I am dressed. Did I have to make sacrifices in what I want to do? You bet I did. Did she have to make sacrifices in what she wanted? You bet she did.
If you want a valuable relationship, and a marriage that is truly a partnership filled with love, you need to communicate and make mutually agreeable expectations. Not all marriages can make it with a crossdressing spouse, but you truly get out of it what you put into it.
Chances are you will want to go all the way and eventually dress fully as a woman and present as a woman when you are dressed. She should know that. Does it mean you have to dress fully? No, but at least she knows and you can set expectations for both of you.

[Rachel Morley]

Have any of you been in the same boat?
Yes and no. Yes in that all I used to do wear were bras (and panties too) and yes that once the genie is out of the bottle it is hard to put her back in, but no that my wife was scared about me fully dressing. I'm one of the lucky ones whose wife was ok with it (sorry) :o

[ReineD]

Not every SO has the mindset to be married to a crossdresser.

This is true.

I think that fundamentally we have two major groups of people. One group is more liberal. They support gay rights and they do not object to a more comprehensive instruction of gender and sexual variance in sex ed classes along with teaching about birth control and venerial diseases. The second group is more conservative. They fundamentally believe that any sexual and gender variance is wrong (or it should be kept private) and it should not be supported in society, and it is a parent's moral right to shield their children from it. This group may be influenced by religious beliefs.

Everyone has the right to believe as they wish. I'm not wanting to turn this into a political or religious debate. Also, the conservative/liberal groups I speak of are not political parties. I am speaking of traditional values vs. beliefs that are a departure from traditional thought.

Back to our groups, other than the initial shock, there is no huge issue in a marriage where BOTH partners are conservative. Providing the marriage is good, the husband and wife will agree to find their balance and as you say, neither will get what they want, but they'll find a compromise. Hopefully the CD partner in such a marriage will not eventually develop stronger urges, but his own conservative beliefs should help to keep them at bay.

There also is no issue if both partners are more liberal. The GG will still experience an initial shock, and they will still eventually find a balance that works for them. But, the CDer in this marriage will tend to give in to his needs for expression more than the conservative CD, since he doesn't have as many moral or religious objections to impede his progress. Plus, he knows that his wife is pretty much on board with him. Again, I'm not saying it is better to be liberal than conservative, just that if a more liberal CD is married to a liberal GG, she will more readily accept where he's at and, well, they'll find their own balance that is different than the conservative couple. Both couples are OK, since they've found a balance that works for them.

The biggest problems occur when one partner holds conservative beliefs, while the other is more liberal. And this can go both ways.

I've seen GGs join here who were quite prepared to explore the CDing with their SOs who did not want to talk about it, or dress in front of them. These men felt a deep embarrassment and shame. One woman I know lost her relationship because of her SO's reluctance to be open with her. She knew he was a CDer, but he would not let her in. But, we do hear more in this forum from the more liberal husbands who have conservative wives, which makes sense, since we have a great deal more CDers join than we have GGs.

We don't hear so much about the couples for whom the CDing is not an issue, but they are here too, if we pay attention to the individual comments. Such CDers are not likely to start threads discussing marital difficulties about the CDing since they don't experience any.

The importance, as you say, is for the COUPLE to find what works for them, and not be judged by others, nor should they judge anyone else. It really doesn't matter how far the CDing goes as long as both find a true balance that works in their marriage.

But, I do feel sorry for the couples who can't get on the same page with this. Since their individual stances are further apart than a marriage in which both are conservative, or both are liberal, it is in these marriages where the husband needs to curb his desires a great deal more. But just as importantly, the wife also needs to stretch her understanding a great deal more, if they both hope to find a meeting ground.

It's just all really about the true balance between each partner, more than it is about defining a particular level at which the CDing is sustainable in a marriage.

[LeaP]

Reine, that was a terrific response. The only thing I'd comment on further is the notion of compromise. I've never felt that compromise was anything other, or better, than a temporary solution. The hardest thing to do in a relationship is enable each other to become whatever it is each wants to be, do, explore, and so on. Compromise in a relationship, on the other hand, is all about setting limits for emotional safety and it's virtually always reactive. I grant that there are ultimate limits beyond which any of us aren't willing to go, but I think we rarely stretch ourselves enough to find them. Almost never, in fact. Most people find life and limits aren't what they think only by going through extreme stress. So compromise to me is almost always indicative accepting less in myself, no matter which side of the compromise I'm on.

Lea

[cdsara]

Idont know how far i will want to go. I have dressed fully when I was younger. But I haven't in many years. I hve been just happy with the bra and maybe a pair of panties once in a while. I dont really wish to become a women full time. but I dont think she believes that. I know I should have told her earlier but I could never find a way. Also I suppressed it for many years. but all that did was make me angry and bitter towards the world. I just feel so alone and no one to talk to that understands around me. I am trying this forum to vent and maybe work out some issues and find out who I am. Thanks for listening.

[Cheryl T]

I don't know that you will "progress" to dressing completely. Some of us never approach that realm and are quite content to wear certain articles of clothing.
Personally I know that I always wanted to dress fully. From the time I began at age 8 I always felt that inner need to completely appear as a woman. Not only did I dress fully by age 12 or 13, but I was also dabbling with my mom's makeup and by 16 had my own complete outfit and cosmetics.
I don't feel I progressed to that state, it's more that I needed to be in that position and still do.

My wife once commented about my dressing before she knew and in the time when I had a moustache. She wondered how I could dress and feel feminine seeing that facial hair. As I told her, I never did see it. I didn't spend my time staring into the mirror and when I was dressed it was something I could easily ignore, but I was still fully dressed.

How far you want to go is entirely a decision you must make based on your inner feelings.

[cdsara]

I wish I could progress to fully passable. unfortunatly my build stops that. If I could I would. but I dont think I will go there.

[johnboyii2002]

I'm not sure how I'll prgress into fullly dressing. I have never been fully dressed just wearing what ever I could. and do underdress and love pantys, hose and lingerie. I would love to have a full make over done. I guess i'll just take it one step at a time.

[ReineD]

I wish I could progress to fully passable. unfortunatly my build stops that. If I could I would. but I dont think I will go there.

Then, Sara, this is what you should tell your wife. You would like to dress to the point of being fully passable, even though you do not want to become a woman, and what prevents you is the belief that you could never pass in public. I don't think you can be any more honest than this.

Remember, there is a difference between a CD who wants to pass in public occasionally, and a TS who wants to become a woman permanently.

[Eryn]

Sorry Eryn, but Honestly? Covered by the for better or worse clause? Really? Where on earth would crossdressing come into play at all with marriage vows. If a spouse is not capable of dealing with CDing, I think it is an honest "out" for the marriage if it was not discussed beforehand...

This is a fundamental problem with today's concept of marriage. When the going becomes less than smooth many spouses feel justified in heading out the door, and I'm not talking just about CDing.

What you don't realize is that many CDers, myself included, did not understand or accept their own CDing while they were in the process of marrying. I thought of my "interest" as a minor perversion which I shoved deeply into the closet where it lay dormant for over 20 years. I didn't disclose it because I wasn't even thinking about it at the time.

20 years down the road, something happened, perhaps male menopause or midlife crisis, and CDing urges strengthened until they had to be addressed. I'm fortunate that my wife wasn't looking for an "honest 'out'" and stood by me. She did it because we loved each other, which is the reason we took those vows long ago.

Let's try putting it in other terms. Several years before I was married I had a small growth on my shoulder. I worried that the lump might be a skin cancer, but it didn't grow further and I never had it looked at. After a few months it subsided. I therefore didn't consider it worth mentioning to my spouse before we were married. What if now, after being married for quite some time, it developed into some form of cancer? Would my wife be justified in deciding that she couldn't handle supporting me though cancer treatment and opted for your "honest 'out'"? After all, I had an inkling that something might be amiss before marriage and I failed to disclose it to her!

Most people considering this situation would judge someone leaving a spouse facing cancer treatment very negatively and call it an act of abandonment.

Some might say that the two situations are different but they really aren't. The are both preexisting low-level conditions that, decades later, grew to the point where they were not low-level and could not be ignored. They both involve a social stigma. The biggest difference is that cancer is life-threatening, but CDing could be considered the same because suppressing it leads to depression and the likelihood of suicide.

Reine is right in that views of CDing depends upon the person being conservative or liberal. I'm the more conservative person in my marriage which may be why it took me so long to accept the person I am.

[ReineD]

Reine is right in that views of CDing depends upon the person being conservative or liberal. I'm the more conservative person in my marriage which may be why it took me so long to accept the person I am.

Just to be clear to everyone, I'm not talking about political parties. I'm referring to traditional vs. non-traditional beliefs. Maybe I should have used those terms instead of conservative vs. liberal beliefs.

[Eryn]

Just to be clear to everyone, I'm not talking about political parties. I'm referring to traditional vs. non-traditional beliefs. Maybe I should have used those terms instead of conservative vs. liberal beliefs.

That was the way I interpreted your statement. This is confusing enough without mixing politics into it! :)

My upbringing was quite "traditional" being in a rural locale, whereas Mimi's family was a bit influenced by the hippie movement. Neither of us were at the extremes, but I think it did influence our perceptions.

[cdsara]

I dont think I want to quiet share that much right now. She is having a hard enough time picturing me in a bra. I want to let thin gs work themselves out a little first before we open any more cans( of worms)

[Piora]

I dont think I want to quite share that much right now. She is having a hard enough time picturing me in a bra. I want to let things work themselves out a little first before we open any more cans( of worms)

You're right on the money with that in mind, Sara. This is a lot for her to handle, and wives can often feel as if they're drowning when something like this is presented to them. It's a hard sell, sometimes. I mean, this is not something that you've done wrong, is it? But, it can put a strain on the marriage because you're presenting yourself in a different light than the person she knew. It's a lot to deal with, and I think you're right on track by perceiving it the way you need to.

Baby steps. Patience. Understanding. Compromise. Love. If you have all that going for both of you, then your chances of a happy outcome are golden.

[J'lyn GG]

Hmm interesting angle. It isn't that easy if you don't KNOW something, to confess to it to someone else.

Also, do you really mean what you suggested? After initially telling his wife he only likes undies, you recommend that he now sneaks off behind her back to dress up more fully in secret? That seems to fly in the face of most GG's wishes.

see post number 5 please

[LeaP]

What you don't realize is that many CDers, myself included, did not understand or accept their own CDing while they were in the process of marrying. I thought of my "interest" as a minor perversion which I shoved deeply into the closet where it lay dormant for over 20 years. I didn't disclose it because I wasn't even thinking about it at the time.

20 years down the road, something happened, perhaps male menopause or midlife crisis, and CDing urges strengthened until they had to be addressed. I'm fortunate that my wife wasn't looking for an "honest 'out'" and stood by me. She did it because we loved each other, which is the reason we took those vows long ago.



Very well put, and it applies to a lot of other things in life as well.

Lea

[Allsteamedup]

A bit of back-tracking here, please, Sara.

Why, of all pieces of female attire, have you chosen to let your SO see you in a bra? You could have chosen panties, a slip, camisole, hose,for example. Why particularly a bra?

My SO would occasionally present in a bra after he came out and it would scare me witless. Why? Well, a bra on a man looks ridiculous for a start. All that hair, squashed flesh (you never do choose the right size!), the large expanse of bare flesh for the rest of your body...what on earth was I supposed to say? For a woman a bra is a physical necessity to feel comfortable carrying breasts around. It's a practical piece of kit, not sexy but necessary to do a job., the particular shape we need under clothes that day we get dressed. (We have several bras for different shaped breastline eg rounded, or push up or balconette)

Now this bra on my SO served no purpose whatsoever other than to make him look ridiculous. It did not appear to be part of a whole dressing package and as a single item...I couldn't work it out. And he would never say why it was there.

Looking back I suppose I might have understood panties or hose or a bra under clothing. But a bra on a naked man......didn't get it.

Now maybe you are talking one of these lightweight lacy/polyfibre modern styles? The ones I saw 35years ago were heavywieght, embroidered, pale cottons with thick elastic straps. (Not the kind of thing I wore!)

If you want to wear a bra with no explanation forthcoming your wife is going to fill in the blanks, and if her knowledge is limited, you might not want what she thinks. So give her at least half a chance and offer her your reasons (women go a bundle on something as positive as reasons) for wanting to wear a bra.

[cdsara]

my SO never has seen me in any female anything. however she has a mental picture after me confessing what I am.

[Eryn]

my SO never has seen me in any female anything. however she has a mental picture after me confessing what I am.

After reading this my wife points out that your wife's mental picture is likely to be far worse than any reality that you might present her with.

One thing that I would like to suggest is that the first feminine garment she sees you in not be a bra, Pick something less overtly feminine like a simple top or perhaps some hip-hugger panties that aren't too far from men's bikini briefs. Seeing you in feminine clothes is something that she has to get used to and "total immersion" isn't the approach that will help her be comfortable.

[LeaP]

Why, of all pieces of female attire, have you chosen to let your SO see you in a bra? You could have chosen panties, a slip, camisole, hose,for example. Why particularly a bra?

My SO would occasionally present in a bra after he came out and it would scare me witless. Why? Well, a bra on a man looks ridiculous for a start. All that hair, squashed flesh (you never do choose the right size!), the large expanse of bare flesh for the rest of your body...what on earth was I supposed to say? For a woman a bra is a physical necessity to feel comfortable carrying breasts around. It's a practical piece of kit, not sexy but necessary to do a job., the particular shape we need under clothes that day we get dressed. (We have several bras for different shaped breastline eg rounded, or push up or balconette)

Now this bra on my SO served no purpose whatsoever other than to make him look ridiculous. It did not appear to be part of a whole dressing package and as a single item...I couldn't work it out. And he would never say why it was there.


Let me parse this a bit:

On looking ridiculous ... body hair (yes), but perhaps you'll understand why CDers want to be rid of it. Squashed? That's also fair, but it's an education point, frankly that most women need as well. ANY lingerie dept or shop will tell you that most women do not wear properly-sized bras. Where in God's name do you expect the average CDer, just coming out, to have acquired a properly-fitted bra? A huge portion of the CDers in the forum have trouble shopping for themselves even when they are fully or partially out. I also understand the functional point, but I hope it's not too overwhelmingly obvious to point out the vast multinational empires focused on producing attractive lingerie. I.e., it ain't about function (only). Were it so, you'd find nothing in the shops but anatomically-suited garments in a narrow range of colors. On expanses of flesh - I don't buy this at all. There's no difference between a man and a woman of equivalent body mass in this regard. This one sounds like judgement to me. On being part of a package - I can't answer this, as it goes to motive, but there are several possibilities. Your SO "would never say". "Would", "didn't", or "couldn't"?? It's quite possible he simply didn't know.

Most CDers state their earliest experiences involve underwear. My take on that is that it's something that feels closer to the inner self. CDers often don't - or can't - present a coherent picture, especially early on. It takes a great deal of time and introspection to get to that point. So when they do something that doesn't make appear to make a lot of sense, it doesn't, from one point of view. But neither does a 6-year old's make-up job. And that's about how much the average male's knowledge of female presentation extends.

Lea

[J'lyn GG]

Let me parse this a bit:

On looking ridiculous ... body hair (yes), but perhaps you'll understand why CDers want to be rid of it. Squashed? That's also fair, but it's an education point, frankly that most women need as well. ANY lingerie dept or shop will tell you that most women do not wear properly-sized bras. Where in God's name do you expect the average CDer, just coming out, to have acquired a properly-fitted bra? A huge portion of the CDers in the forum have trouble shopping for themselves even when they are fully or partially out. I also understand the functional point, but I hope it's not too overwhelmingly obvious to point out the vast multinational empires focused on producing attractive lingerie. I.e., it ain't about function (only). Were it so, you'd find nothing in the shops but anatomically-suited garments in a narrow range of colors. On expanses of flesh - I don't buy this at all. There's no difference between a man and a woman of equivalent body mass in this regard. This one sounds like judgement to me. On being part of a package - I can't answer this, as it goes to motive, but there are several possibilities. Your SO "would never say". "Would", "didn't", or "couldn't"?? It's quite possible he simply didn't know.

Most CDers state their earliest experiences involve underwear. My take on that is that it's something that feels closer to the inner self. CDers often don't - or can't - present a coherent picture, especially early on. It takes a great deal of time and introspection to get to that point. So when they do something that doesn't make appear to make a lot of sense, it doesn't, from one point of view. But neither does a 6-year old's make-up job. And that's about how much the average male's knowledge of female presentation extends.

Lea

Forgive me, if I'm off-base, but isn't the goal with the OP to help his wife to accept/be okay with his cding? Then, why would he choose the most antagonistic item of clothing for a lot of women? And why does it matter how it makes him feel? I know that sounds harsh, but, at a time where he is trying to repair damage and smooth ruffled feathers, shouldn't he be worrying about her, instead of himself?

[suchacutie]

My experience is that my wife was as curious about Tina as I was, maybe even moreso in the beginning. Also, we could never have anticipated the kind of incredibly high-quality discussions about the inner psyche of men vs. women and what it's like to grow up male vs. female. There is just so much more to share when the topics are no longer gender divided!

[Contessa]

I hope I don't get to weird about this. Since I told my wife it has been different in what or how I feel about my dressing. I know she doesn't want me to do this but, I am going all the way to going out "en femme". I want to pass as a woman. I doubt that this will happen, but I will not be getting any (SRS) operations or try to get any male lovers as I am not gay. All this is about is me having fun and loving the feel of dressing like a woman. That's all, flat out. It sneaky, naughty and nice. If anyone wants to go any further than this you're into something other than Cding. Just for fun. Huh

[kimdl93]

Forgive me, if I'm off-base, but isn't the goal with the OP to help his wife to accept/be okay with his cding? Then, why would he choose the most antagonistic item of clothing for a lot of women? And why does it matter how it makes him feel? I know that sounds harsh, but, at a time where he is trying to repair damage and smooth ruffled feathers, shouldn't he be worrying about her, instead of himself?

I'd agree that the goal is to smooth out the initial turmoil that Tgsara's revelation has created in their relationship. For now, I'd put the idea of dressing in front of her on the back burner and concentrate on reafirming their connections and listening to her concerns. I wouldn't be in a rush to make any changes beyond that.

[cdsara]

I am trying to make everything better but I think it will be a long slow road. Now that its out I actually am thinking more about I would like to dress more than just undies.

[Melissa.Lynn88]

Have any of you been in the same boat?

I was in the same position recently. I just started dressing again after not doing so for several years. At first I was fine with just wearing panties and other things sometimes and thought that was as far as I would go. However, I have now progressed to wearing makeup and a wig when I dress. I have gotten to a point where I enjoy making myself look as feminine as possible. I never really though I would ever get to this point, but now that I have I think CDing is much more fun.

[Aprilrain]

I think that fundamentally we have two major groups of people. One group is more liberal. They support gay rights and they do not object to a more comprehensive instruction of gender and sexual variance in sex ed classes along with teaching about birth control and venerial diseases. The second group is more conservative. They fundamentally believe that any sexual and gender variance is wrong (or it should be kept private) and it should not be supported in society, and it is a parent's moral right to shield their children from it. This group may be influenced by religious beliefs.

interestingly enough I have seen people in the first camp's convictions crumble when confronted with their "beliefs" on a personal level (spouse, child, relative etc.) and people in the second camp rally in support of an individual who is gay or trans.

funny how one never can tell.

[ReineD]

^ That's true April. But then maybe the first group of people who crumble discover they are true traditionalists after all, whereas the second group of people who rally around discover their views aren't as traditional as they thought! :)

I wasn't saying that people are in one camp or the other and their positions are permanent or immovable. Just saying that people who fundamentally hold traditional views will generally have a harder time with accepting the more modern views of gender and sexual variance. It's impossible to account for every individual, every possible variation there can be, just in one sentence. :)

[LeaP]

interestingly enough I have seen people in the first camp's convictions crumble when confronted with their "beliefs" on a personal level (spouse, child, relative etc.) and people in the second camp rally in support of an individual who is gay or trans.

funny how one never can tell.

As have I. It's all very nice to have theoretical beliefs. Reality (or action) and belief don't always correspond.

Lea

[LeaP]

Forgive me, if I'm off-base, but isn't the goal with the OP to help his wife to accept/be okay with his cding? Then, why would he choose the most antagonistic item of clothing for a lot of women? And why does it matter how it makes him feel? I know that sounds harsh, but, at a time where he is trying to repair damage and smooth ruffled feathers, shouldn't he be worrying about her, instead of himself?

Nothing off-base at all. What some may find antagonistic doesn't matter. The only thing that does is what happens between the couple. What Tgsara feels is every bit as important as what her SO feels or thinks. I grant the revelatory nature of the situation, but it is not now, and never will be (should be) about anything other than both of them. Avoiding that now sets up a very destructive dynamic wherein the crossdresser allows another to gate their gender expression ... In other words, what caused the suppression to begin with. It virtually assures ongoing conflict as the crossdressing fully manifests in stages over time, something I hesitate to call "progression."

Sometimes a bra is just a bra. Seems to me the gorilla in the room is crossdressing, not the garment. Deal with the crossdressing.

Lea

[J'lyn GG]

I read post 5 J'lyn and I think the same problem exists. If he doesn't know then how can someone be open and honest about something they don't yet know.


I do get what you're saying, but do you not understand where I am coming from as the wife? Let me tell you what my husband did, BEFORE, he told me. He asked himself if he was gay, what he wanted from his cding, what it meant for him, etc. All the hard questions that I hear so many on this site say they don't know the answers to. Sure it was hard for him to answer those questions, but he did it and had answers ready when I asked. I STILL had a hard time believing them, but at least they were consistent and I didn't have to worry about constantly changing answers. Which, then, made it easier to move on to other things.
I know what my husband's perfect world is, and he knows what mine is. Will either of us ever get our perfect world? Probably not. He is okay with that. I am (usually) okay with that.

[Aprilrain]

Let me tell you what my husband did, BEFORE, he told me. He asked himself if he was gay, what he wanted from his cding, what it meant for him, etc. All the hard questions that I hear so many on this site say they don't know the answers to. Sure it was hard for him to answer those questions, but he did it and had answers ready when I asked.

I thought I had the answers to these questions too but how could I be honest with my wife if I couldn't even be honest with myself. I really wanted to just be a CDer how much easier would that have been! I knew I wasn't a gay man but I was a heterosexual woman and how do you explain that? needless to say here i am transitioning.

[Contessa]

The biggest difference is that cancer is life-threatening, but CDing could be considered the same because suppressing it leads to depression and the likelihood of suicide. Reine is right in that views of CDing depends upon the person being conservative or liberal. I'm the more conservative person in my marriage which may be why it took me so long to accept the person I am.

I agree with what you've said about depression, I literally had to work my way through it. I am a much better person since finding out and accepting who I am. Wives and or SO's must take the time to talk instead of becoming angry and leaving the situation. If I can be okay with this/myself and what I doing then that should make it easier for them to accept. But not having anyone to talk to about Cding will probably lead back to depression again.

[barbara gordon]

YES! for "BETTER OR WORSE " when I was standing at the alter with my Wife i was not thinking about crossdressing and what it would become to me down the road . I was only thinking about how deeply in love I was with with her .
When I first met her and when I was first married I thought that my strange "problem" would go away .