Had a talk with wife!

[Longing2be-Trisha]

Hi all!

Last night my wife and I had a long drawn out talk about my being a woman. :cry: She seems to think if I truly loved her and my kids I can control the urges to be a woman and that God can heal me of these sinful desires.:Pullhair: She stopped telling me she loved me, giving me a kiss, and touching me because having my legs shaved, toenails painted, longer fingernails grosses her out.:brokenheart:

It is bad enough we are going to loose our house to the bank because of all the new fees driving up the mortgage to the point we can not afford to pay our second mortgage.:sad: To top it off we are moving into the basement of her folks to help them out.:thumbsdn: I would go get a second job if I could work in the first place. Her job is working with her parents taking care of the elderly, but getting clients in is impossible since the state government took over to save a buck. So my wife's pay has been cut severely since last year which has made it a struggle financially.

So now I need to suppress these desires to transition for a while to save up money to move out and get an apartment. The first divorced I went through was the very worst it could have been and it nearly destroyed me mentally and physically. I don't know if I can handle it again?:weep: She will not listen to a counselor who might say it is OK that I have these desires to be a woman and I don't like her's because all they do is say I am sinning against God and there is know way that this is what God for my life. What a problem indeed!

Up until I came out as a trans woman and my desires we have had a great marriage even with me almost dying twice in 10 years. I excepted her deep secret of being abused sexually as a little girl which effected her growing up. We worked through those problems yet her fears often rule her life's decisions. This is why we have a problem now, she is scared of what people will say and think of her for me being a woman and what will our church say. I know our church does not want to do with transgender people and homosexuals.:OMG:

Our pastor told me I was very selfish and not thinking how I am not think of the effect on my family and my relationship with God. Talk about feeling the love in that! Ouch!!! He has not been by the house since even though I have asked him too. Wonder what happened to unconditional love that Jesus and God talk about through out the bible?

So hopefully by March I can get an apartment or sooner maybe sooner. I will miss waking up every day to my youngest daughter and taking care of her all day. My wife has made it clear in the best interest of our daughter I would need to stay away so not to confuse her what a crock of you know what. She tells me I am the best dad and great parent, but can not be as a woman. WRONG again! My wife also wants to know were I would get an apartment in this state up in the city or some other state so to make it easier on her, my children and soon to be a grandchild's sake? OUCH hit me when I am down!!!! So I have a lot of planning and thinking to do.

Hugs and Kisses

[Katesback]

First of all your wife is entitled to whatever she wants. If she wants a man thats her call. Second I think I saw you mention you cannot work. If that is the case then lets try to be real here. I mean if you dont have the resources to transition then ya might as well hang up your hat and be a man. I am sorry but this is reality!

Does it hurt? Hell yes it hurts but as I said its reality. Most trans people end up divorced and anyone who cannot work and has no resources to transition might as well call being trans a dream because that is what it will remain.

My advice to you since it sounds like you have NO way to transition is to stop talking about being trans completely and live your life as it is since there is no other recourse and talking about it to other people just distresses them as you can see. Finally talk is cheap and actions are all that counts. When you talk to people your wasting your time! They dont understand the trans shit and they dont want to!

Katie


PS I would be grossed out as well if my MAN had shaved legs, long finger nails, and painted toenails. Sorry but thats not stuff men do!

[Zenith]

Under these conditions your chances of success are quite low. I would try to sort out your life and wait. But of course it's a very personal decision. Even with all your ducks in a row, it's a crapshoot. All the best...

[*Vanessa*]

Hey Trisha
I can't speak to that god stuff or to how Katesback delivers what she has to offer, yet I agree with her.

I do know that if you are convinced your life decisions are what you need, than you need conviction to what they are. Also, no one on earth can determine how someone else will treat us now or in the future, life just doesn't happen that way.

If you can just be you, be the person you are, there is no court that will deny you your rights. Don’t try to convince anyone how doesn’t understand what transitioning about at least at this time in your life. No one needs that fight and certainly not you. Scale back your plans for awhile Trisha, with a more internal focus on who you are then who you want to become.

As you know, I’ve lost absolutely everything in my life down to the last nickel. Yet after awhile you see that life starts to happen again, in a new exciting way. Please take care.

[Stephenie S]

I think Vanessa and Kate are right on.

If you are unable to work, who will support you? Not your wife, I think. Transition is expensive. It takes a lot, both emotionally and financially. Moan about it all you want. This is a support forum, after all. Some here will commiserate with you.

But Vanessa is right. Get your life in order ar home. Stop talking to your wife about something that will never happen. And for goodness sake, stop talking to your pastor. Whatever gave you the idea that HE would or could help? The church is the most patriarchal and woman hating orginization you could find.

S

[mustlovedogs]

Agree with everyone that replied to your original post. Would add that since you stated you cannot work, assume you have significant limitations that prevent you from engaging in full-time employment. Those significant limitations could make you ineligible for surgery even if you unexpectedly came into money, e.g., inheritance, lotto winning, etc.

Just my $.02

MLD

[Katesback]

Ya know people like you are the reason they have the SOC. I mean I cannot tell you how many bugs I have met that claim to be trans and have no means, ability, and/or 1000 reasons (excuses) not to help themselves. I have herd the whining and crying so often when I worked for trans people that it made me sick. I once sat in on a presentation at SCC titled "coping with the inability to transition". While I sat there I listend to all the shit these people talked about. It made me furious. I just wanted to slap some of them.

I have said it before and will say it again. I once was talking to a long time post op trans girl. We were talking about the trans community and she bluntly said "the problem with many of these people is they need thier asses beat". I will never forget her words because as harsh as they are they are also so true.

You the person with no job and no ability to transition really need your ass beat. Your rambling on and on to your poor wife who is getting all distresses all the while shes putting the food on the table. You rambling to the people on this forum about how its not fair that she does not understand you or accept you. Shame on you! Its NOT HER OBLIGATION to accept you!!!!!!!!!! If you were thinking the least bit clearly you would realize that transition is void of acceptance and all that shit. It involves a person making a decision and executing it regradless of the concequences, and knowing the journey is a lonely one person journey in most all cases.

You would not be the first trans person that have told such a story and I have in person CHEWED OUT BIG TIME. I promise you if you had been in my presence and told this story I would have chewed you out to no end. I am sorry but I have no sympathy for you. Your crap is tearing up your wife and family and that is really frustrating.

Part of supporting a person is sometimes tough love approach. Your one that needs that.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hello,

I am not going to word it quite so harshly as Kate did but I fully agree with her statement to you.
The SOC exists for a reason.
If not properly diagnosed or you have not taken the necessary steps prior to transition you could end up dead.
Trust me on that.
I did everything according to the rule book and still lost everything and everyone five years ago.

This is also as much about your spouse as it is about you.

You MUST get your life in order before you bring up anything to do with you being trans or needing to transition.

Find employment, leave your church and find an accepting one, start divorce, then begin the walk.

The cart before the horse will not work.

Get your house in order before you change it.


Julia


Ya know people like you are the reason they have the SOC. I mean I cannot tell you how many bugs I have met that claim to be trans and have no means, ability, and/or 1000 reasons (excuses) to help themselves. I have herd the whining and crying so often when I worked for trans people that it made me sick. I once sat in on a presentation at SCC titled "coping with the inability to transition". While I sat there I listend to all the shit these people talked about. It made me furious. I just wanted to slap some of them.

I have said it before and will say it again. I once was talking to a long time post op trans girl. We were talking about the trans community and she bluntly said "the problem with many of these people is they need thier asses beat". I will never forget her words because as harsh as they are they are also so true.

You the person with no job and no ability to transition really need your ass beat. Your rambling on and on to your poor wife who is getting all distresses all the while shes putting the food on the table. You rambling to the people on this forum about how its not fair that she does not understand you or accept you. Shame on you. Its NOT HER OBLIGATION to accept you!!!!!!!!!!

You would not be the first trans person that have told such a story and I have in person CHEWED OUT BIG TIME. I promise you if you had been in my presence and told this story I would have chewed you out to no end.

Part of supporting a person is sometimes tough love approach. Your one that needs that.

[Aprilrain]

Others have said it but I will try to be as basic and nonjudgmental as possible.
get a divorce. who needs a "partner" who resents them??
find employment. if your that severely disabled then yeah its going to be impossible to afford transition.
forget about that church!!!! I have met many TS who attend church regularly and get a lot out of their faith but they couldn't do that in such an unaccepting environment. find a new one if you must.
CHANGE YOUR AVATAR NAME! as long as you are longing you will never get anywhere! why not just Trisha? it sounds stupid but thoughts have power. If i'm always WANTING something that is what I will get, WANT, not the thing I want
just a thought
April

[Katesback]

A bit of clarification to your statment about Ts going to church.

I submit to you that there are a LOT of WOMEN that attend various churches. Some are even TS but they DONT talk about being TS in church.

Now if a trannny wants to go to church to find acceptance as a tranny then good luck. Back to the concept I have said over and over. One of the hardest things a trans person has to learn is to be a woman and keep thier MOUTH SHUT.





Others have said it but I will try to be as basic and nonjudgmental as possible.
get a divorce. who needs a "partner" who resents them??
find employment. if your that severely disabled then yeah its going to be impossible to afford transition.
forget about that church!!!! I have met many TS who attend church regularly and get a lot out of their faith but they couldn't do that in such an unaccepting environment. find a new one if you must.
CHANGE YOUR AVATAR NAME! as long as you are longing you will never get anywhere! why not just Trisha? it sounds stupid but thoughts have power. If i'm always WANTING something that is what I will get, WANT, not the thing I want
just a thought
April

[Frances]

Transsexualism, like any other medical condition, is selfish by nature. You don't have cancer as a family. Only one person goes through surgery and chemo and everything else. If you are to transition, you will have to be extremely selfish about it. If that makes you feel guilty because of your marriage or your deity (I guess you ment Yahwe), then you have to walk away from them. I did; it's incredibly hard to do (not the deity part, however, I grew up an atheist). Instead of transitioning at Aprilrain's age, for example, I went back to university and got a degree that would allow me to work through my transition. Your wife has folks, and maybe you do too. I have been a total orphan since the age of 25 (I am now 45), nobody was going to provide for me. You have to do what you need to do at any particular moment, and that is often not transitioning.

[Longing2be-Trisha]

Thanks for your advise ladies! My disability was caused by a drug I was allergic too, which did lots of damage to the way my body process nerve impulses. I can freeze at 90 degrees and sweat to death at 20 below. I can watch tv or a movie and subconsciousness reacts by flinching my body. Then comes the chronic fatigue which makes it hard to drive long distances or staying focused at the task at hand. As far as money I get 2000 on disability between everything. I just can not at this time go out and work like I want too. Be for this working very hard long hours was nothing it took a whole lot to tire me out. Any ways thanks again for your advise.

Hugs

[Aprilrain]

I submit to you that there are a LOT of WOMEN that attend various churches. Some are even TS but they DONT talk about being TS in church.

Of the three TS woman I can think of off the top of my head one transitioned and stayed at her church (where she is still an usher BTW) one left the church she had attended with her wife for many years an found a new church where she explained her situation to the priest before attending services and the other is so cute how could they refuse! My point being 2 out of 3 are "out" trans woman at their churches. Interestingly enough they're all catholic too,

[Melody Moore]

I have to agree mostly with others when it comes to have SRS. However I don't think it is entirely impossible to transition
if you are on disability, because that is where I have come from and I also know other trans women in the USA who are
transitioning and are only on unemployment benefits or disability. Here in Australia I get about $1700 p/mth on disability
which is about equal or a bit more than the US Dollars now. Those on unemployment benefits here get about $1300 p/mth.

A trans woman I know in the US is on $2000 p/mth and is going really well in her transition. She lives in shared accommodation
with other trans women as I also do, but only with cis gendered people. So it only costs me $600 p/mth for rent, so I have $1100
p/mth for everything else which I just budget carefully. You have to be tight on your spending & only buy what you need and use
the rest on medications & treatments. If you smoke and/or drink then those things have to go as well or at least get cut right back.

However in my situation I have started to get back into working for myself form home now on a part-time basis as a web designer
and graphic artist. I have managed to make and save a significant amount of money already towards my GRS/SRS in the past few
months. I have ongoing work from now on & I can do this from home on a part time basis, without any pressure or stress. So this
is working really well for me now. I am fortunate that I am qualified graphic artist & web designer experienced in PHP/MySQL web
development because it has always been good for me to fall back onto. However I do realise that some people don't have those
types of skills or experience which can make life really hard for others.

However I know other trans-girls who are taking time out from the work force to transition on hormone therapy and get their ID
and documentation changed, then to go back into the workforce as a female, rather than transitioning in the work place. And I
was talking to a new girl today who is joining our group and she was put off from her job in customer services because customers
complained that she made them feel uncomfortable as she has been going through the androgynous stages. So her plan is now to
transition while she is out of work over the next 12 months and then to go back into the workforce help and support of a supportive
employment agency. She is even thinking about studying in the meantime so she has the best chance and has new qualifications.

So it is possible to transition if you are really smart how you go about it, but if you want FFS, GRS/SRS
or other cosmetic surgical procedures then you are going to have to work harder to get those things and
I really believe if you want this bad enough then you will find the strength and motivation to fully transition.

[Cindi Johnson]

Sorry, Trisha, but you can't ever win an argument with "God", and you can't ever win an argument with anyone who knows what "God" believes, and lastly, you'll eventually tire of arguing with anyone who believes the SoC were somehow carved in stone by some sort of "god".

However, if you have younger kids, IMHO their needs must come first, your and your spouse's needs come after the kids', and "God" comes in somewhere after the family pet.

[Frances]

However, if you have younger kids, IMHO their needs must come first, your and your spouse's needs come after the kids', and "God" comes in somewhere after the family pet.

Do the kids need for someone to not transition? Maybe I did not need for my mother to go through all that chemo. It depends on the dysphoria. If a father blows his brains out, will he be more useful? Kids can take a lot, I have seen it over and over again. It sounds more like Trisha does not have everything in place to have a successful transition nor is dysphoric enough to need to have it selfishly, kids, wife and deity be damned.

[Katesback]

I said earlier that people dont transition often because of 1000 reasons (excueses). The kid thing is one of the excuses. Why is it an excuse? Countless trans women have ACTUALLY gone through the process of transition and thier kids have survived, some have thrived. The point is that this has already been done and to say not transitioning for the kids, or god, or whatever is just excuses.

Katie







Sorry, Trisha, but you can't ever win an argument with "God", and you can't ever win an argument with anyone who knows what "God" believes, and lastly, you'll eventually tire of arguing with anyone who believes the SoC were somehow carved in stone by some sort of "god".

However, if you have younger kids, IMHO their needs must come first, your and your spouse's needs come after the kids', and "God" comes in somewhere after the family pet.

[Julia_in_Pa]

I again agree with Kate on the child issue being used as an excuse.
In fact the child issue is the largest and most prolific excuse used by those hat know they need to transition but are frightened of doing so.
I have had many friends both TS and IS with children successfully transition while their children are successfully involved in their lives.

It is indeed sad that so many talk but so few walk.

They continue their lives until the end with little left but the same excuses for why they never transitioned and a now a past life filled with what if's and regrets.

A self imposed hell? for the vast majority sadly the answer is yes.


Julia






I said earlier that people dont transition often because of 1000 reasons (excueses). The kid thing is one of the excuses. Why is it an excuse? Countless trans women have ACTUALLY gone through the process of transition and thier kids have survived, some have thrived. The point is that this has already been done and to say not transitioning for the kids, or god, or whatever is just excuses.

Katie

[Melody Moore]

I have to agree, waiting until my kids were adults was the worst mistake I believe I made and
I did that thinking that it was for the best and would protect them from any unnecessary abuse.

However my kids got too use to me as a male as their father and have a hard time now accepting
my transition. In hind sight it I think it would have been best if I came out a lot sooner in their lives.

[mustlovedogs]

I again agree with Kate on the child issue being used as an excuse.
In fact the child issue is the largest and most prolific excuse used by those hat know they need to transition but are frightened of doing so.
I have had many friends both TS and IS with children successfully transition while their children are successfully involved in their lives.

Julia

Proof you are correct Julia about individuals with children successfully transitioning:

http://www.transparentday.org/

[Aprilrain]

My 5 year old son came up to me on halloween and said, "dad, what's your name again?" I said, "April" a few seconds later I heard him saying loudly to some other kid, "thats my dad his name is April!"
IDEAL?? hell no! but certainly not the end of the world.
Meanwhile I was feeding my 16 month old pizza, you would not believe how much food a 16 month old can eat!!!

Hopefully, someday, he'll get the pronouns right.

[Katesback]

Perhaps your statments also touch on why I am the way I am. I have seen soo many lost causes crying about how they missed out on life. Unlike most of the trans community I have no patience to listen to someone that wont take control of thier lives. Sadly the trans community is filled with people that are DONT.

Perhaps thats also why so many of the people that DO leave the community. If you are a DOER why would you want to hang around an environment of people that make up DONT'S? Really ask yourself that question.

I am often very brash. I have no patience for the shit that floats around on this forum. Theres so much misinformation and so many fake people that have not even begun to be a DOER but maintain some self stated standing of expertise. I am sorry but I laugh. Theres only a very small group of people here that are DOERS and you would be best served to heed thier advice and ignore the BUGS, NUT cases, FREEKS, and DONT's unless of course your one of those and thats fine because misery loves company!

Katie





I again agree with Kate on the child issue being used as an excuse.
In fact the child issue is the largest and most prolific excuse used by those hat know they need to transition but are frightened of doing so.
I have had many friends both TS and IS with children successfully transition while their children are successfully involved in their lives.

It is indeed sad that so many talk but so few walk.

They continue their lives until the end with little left but the same excuses for why they never transitioned and a now a past life filled with what if's and regrets.

A self imposed hell? for the vast majority sadly the answer is yes.


Julia

[chloe23]

Perhaps your statments also touch on why I am the way I am. I have seen soo many lost causes crying about how they missed out on life. Unlike most of the trans community I have no patience to listen to someone that wont take control of thier lives. Sadly the trans community is filled with people that are DONT.




Katie

Well said Kate, people do need to take control of their own lives first

[Cindi Johnson]

I said, one's children's needs come first. I did NOT say this means one can't transition. Where are you all coming from??


It depends on the child. How insecure is he/she? Is he well adjusted or not? Are there other issues? Will the cost of SRS and possible loss of job mean homelessness for the kid? Surely if a child is well adjusted (and most are) and money is not a problem (it does seem to be a big problem in Trisha's case), then there shouldn't be a major problem with transitioning. But if (and I've read all the TS autobiographies out there; e.g., "Squirrel Cage") transitioning means a god-fearing spouse will remove your young child from your life forever, then I think you better think carefully and decide what's best for the child.

My wife died when our son was in 3rd grade. It was a terrible time for him, and me. For years afterward, everything in my life became secondary to raising my kid, as I had no family around to help. I would have lost my career and my boy might have lost what little stability he had, had I transitioned. Still, yes, I do at times regret it, my not choosing the road less taken. Very much so. But, had I taken that road, does that mean I'd have no regrets? Life isn't quite so simple.

Cindi

[Frances]

I said, one's children's needs come first. I did NOT say this means one can't transition. Where are you all coming from??


It depends on the child. How insecure is he/she? Is he well adjusted or not? Are there other issues? Will the cost of SRS and possible loss of job mean homelessness for the kid? Surely if a child is well adjusted (and most are) and money is not a problem (it does seem to be a big problem in Trisha's case), then there shouldn't be a major problem with transitioning. But if (and I've read all the TS autobiographies out there; e.g., "Squirrel Cage") transitioning means a god-fearing spouse will remove your young child from your life forever, then I think you better think carefully and decide what's best for the child.

My wife died when our son was in 3rd grade. It was a terrible time for him, and me. For years afterward, everything in my life became secondary to raising my kid, as I had no family around to help. I would have lost my career and my boy might have lost what little stability he had, had I transitioned. Still, yes, I do at times regret it, my not choosing the road less taken. Very much so. But, had I taken that road, does that mean I'd have no regrets? Life isn't quite so simple.

Cindi

Fair enough. Post 15 came off to me like a GG or a CDer trying to guilt a trans person out of transitioning. Your example in post 24 shows that some situations call for personal sacrifice. I took care of my mother who battled cancer for 18 years and even dropped out of college to help her die (I finished that degree 8 years later). It goes with what I said in post 16: "You have to do what you need to do at any particular moment, and that is often not transitioning."

[chloe23]

I said, one's children's needs come first. I did NOT say this means one can't transition. Where are you all coming from??


It depends on the child. How insecure is he/she? Is he well adjusted or not? Are there other issues? Will the cost of SRS and possible loss of job mean homelessness for the kid? Surely if a child is well adjusted (and most are) and money is not a problem (it does seem to be a big problem in Trisha's case), then there shouldn't be a major problem with transitioning. But if (and I've read all the TS autobiographies out there; e.g., "Squirrel Cage") transitioning means a god-fearing spouse will remove your young child from your life forever, then I think you better think carefully and decide what's best for the child.

My wife died when our son was in 3rd grade. It was a terrible time for him, and me. For years afterward, everything in my life became secondary to raising my kid, as I had no family around to help. I would have lost my career and my boy might have lost what little stability he had, had I transitioned. Still, yes, I do at times regret it, my not choosing the road less taken. Very much so. But, had I taken that road, does that mean I'd have no regrets? Life isn't quite so simple.

Cindi

Cindi, sorry to hear about your wife's passing and how hard things where on your son and your self. I do see your point in a way and i agree it would have been devastating to transition for your son shortly after losing his mother. I know it had to be very tough times for both of you with him losing a mother and you needing to transition. I do admire you for putting your son's interest first at the time, because children do come first. hopefully as time heals, you both will have a chance to adjust and he will accept you.

[Katesback]

I submit to you that every possible variable you throw out about your kids HAS already been tackled by someone who HAS transitioned. I am sorry but the variables are still bull. You do what you have to do or you dont. If you dont and it makes you feel better to claim that some particular variable to your childs situation makes it a UNIQUE situation I am sorry but read the first line in the post! Everything has been tackled before. Doubt me? Go talk to a therapist ask him/her to research children of transsexuals and then ask how the kids fair.

Katie











I said, one's children's needs come first. I did NOT say this means one can't transition. Where are you all coming from??


It depends on the child. How insecure is he/she? Is he well adjusted or not? Are there other issues? Will the cost of SRS and possible loss of job mean homelessness for the kid? Surely if a child is well adjusted (and most are) and money is not a problem (it does seem to be a big problem in Trisha's case), then there shouldn't be a major problem with transitioning. But if (and I've read all the TS autobiographies out there; e.g., "Squirrel Cage") transitioning means a god-fearing spouse will remove your young child from your life forever, then I think you better think carefully and decide what's best for the child.

My wife died when our son was in 3rd grade. It was a terrible time for him, and me. For years afterward, everything in my life became secondary to raising my kid, as I had no family around to help. I would have lost my career and my boy might have lost what little stability he had, had I transitioned. Still, yes, I do at times regret it, my not choosing the road less taken. Very much so. But, had I taken that road, does that mean I'd have no regrets? Life isn't quite so simple.

Cindi

[abigailf]

Wow! This is a pretty busy thread in such a short time. I haven't gone through it all yet, but...


Transsexualism, like any other medical condition, is selfish by nature. You don't have cancer as a family.

I avoid comparing diseases to transsexualism. It's not a disease and we shouldn't allow people to think that way. I prefer to compare to things like; being born with nine toes, one arm, without sight, or without a penis, or with one...

----

Anyway, Trisha, It's time to act.

First, a religion will try to alter your beliefs to conform to it. In contrast, you should find a religion that conforms to your beliefs. Sounds like it is time to leave your church and join a supporting church. There are many out there.

Second, it sounds like your wife already checked out. You better start preparing yourself for the inevitable "D".

Third, If you can't work, figure out why and change it. You will need to generate an income or find a new understanding spouse that can do it for you.

Forth, don't despair, you have it in you to change things around. Woman up and start making things happen.

What you need to do is:

- Assess the damage (sounds like understand some of it)
- Devise a realistic plan with milestones.
Include time frames for completing the milestones.
- execute the plan

Some people will say it is not that simple, I say they are wrong. Without a plan all is lost, with a plan there is hope.

Finally, be prepared for the worse but hope for the best.

[Frances]

I do admire you for putting your son's interest first at the time, because children do come first.

Maybe not being a parent prevents me from understanding this part. My own father left us (my mother and I) when I was 4.5 to go work in Africa as a bush pilot. He eventually died in a plane crash. I guess he did not do the right thing by me, but, as I have learned over and over again in my own life, we are ultimately alone and need to live our own lives, including him.

It's more of feasibility issue as far as I see it, i.e. having the means to transition successfully. The funny is, however, that most people over-estimate the cost and the needs. It mostly takes time and patience to transition, the latter being in very short supply in most trans-aspiring folks that I meet.

[Starling]

Forgive me if I missed something, Kate, but as you apparently hadn't taken on any significant responsibilities in life beyond caring for your own needs before, then you had very few strong commitments or obligations to take into account when you transitioned. Lucky you. You can't, however, assert the categorical authenticity you claim, to have the right to discount everyone else's "excuses," based on the successes of other transpeople.

Please correct me if I missed your referring to a spouse and/or family in an earlier post.

:) Lallie

[Katesback]

For the third time I submit to you the fact that countless trans people with kids have already gone through the process of transition. If you wish to assume that there is something absolutely unique to your or someone elses story then more power to you. Sadly thats in itself is another excuse to use, assuming ones story is unique and uncharted waters.

Yes transition is often a selfish process. One often looses a LOT. One often gains a LOT as well. There are so few that REALLY ever transition sad to say because of these excuses.

Finally I will ask you this question. In the end who are you most responsible to? Because I think I need to give ya a hint. Remember when you fly an airplane the flight attendant tells you in the event of a cabin depressureization the masks will fall. Thereafter you are instructed to put your mask on BEFORE doing it for a child.

Now I realize you might go and say "Kate thats not the same story". Ahh but it is. That story relates to the physical well being of someone as well as the mental well being because if the parent does not get oxygen they wont be helping the kids. What do you think someone who is living a lie is doing to thier kids? Do you think that perhaps if they actually tansitioned they would be mentally healthier and more able to care for thier kids? I mean really.

Katie






Forgive me if I missed something, Kate, but as you apparently hadn't taken on any significant responsibilities in life beyond caring for your own needs before, then you had very few strong commitments or obligations to take into account when you transitioned. Lucky you. You can't, however, assert the categorical authenticity you claim, to have the right to discount everyone else's "excuses," based on the successes of other transpeople.

Please correct me if I missed your referring to a spouse and/or family in an earlier post.

:) Lallie

[Melody Moore]

I put it to you like this... "If you love your children why lie or hide who you really are from them?"

My personal experience has proven to me that they have more issues trying to accept it as adults
because they got too use to me as I was before and that conclusion was drawn from their own words.

My only regret is hiding the truth from my kids for all these years and springing it on them later.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I transitioned with a 14 and 11 year old girl..

i was told that i was a fool, that "teenagers" couldn't handle it, that i was incredibly selfish...
the people telling me this included people that were waiting until college...getting into their 50's and planning to tell the kids when they were grown..

i have a 17 and 14 yr old now, and our relationship could not be better, they love me, i love them.. i have joint custody and share more than 50/50 the duties of parenthood.. i saved up my $$ and invested in ffs so i could look better for me and for them..
one by one they tell friends and each friend is more supportive than the next...i gave them tons of space after i disclosed this..i told them this was neccessary for me to feel alive and that i would never ever leave them, but also that i understood their fear and anger towards me...i let them call me dad, i let them tease me... i kill them with kindness and patience....i counseled them how to tell the friend that would most likely support them and me, my exwife saw how they thrived despite my transition and immediately started supporting me too... she hated all this, but saw here kids were handling it, and she became an ally....

my friend told his kids and they reacted with anger and bitterness...they cut their dad off, hated him for "what he did to mom", and felt hurt because their dad didnt trust them enough to tell them... i don't talk to him anymore because he won't call me back anymore...melody's experience is consistent with others as well...

The kids do come first, but what good was I too my kids dead or so miserable that i couldn't function..hey it was very difficult, there were many tears, i was lucky to survive surgeries and procedures with little side effects...i had savings from my old job
but in the end, i took care of my business.

each situation is different...cindi your story is heartbreaking..i can't say what i would do ...i was the sole income earner and that was something i considered...

[chloe23]

i was told that i was a fool, that "teenagers" couldn't handle it, that i was incredibly selfish...
the people telling me this included people that were waiting until college...getting into their 50's and planning to tell the kids when they were grown

That sounds so familiar....... Kids handle it better if your open and upfront with them.

[Katesback]

As I said before it is all a bunch of excuses for not being able to do what you feel you have to do. I guess some would rather live a self imposed life of hell than do what has to be done to be normal.
Tisk tisk.

[chloe23]

As I said before it is all a bunch of excuses for not being able to do what you feel you have to do. I guess some would rather live a self imposed life of hell than do what has to be done to be normal.
Tisk tisk.

Kate, have you ever been married or had kids????

[Longing2be-Trisha]

I don't listen to much of what Kate says. She is like a general who launches a nuclear strike on an area without knowing the other sides agenda, and not worrying about the innocent lives involved that were destroyed or harmed in the process. She reminds me of my 1st wife who would do or say anything she wanted and did not care about others feeling or needs, as long as she was happy. Now she has no relationship with her mom, sisters, brothers, and our oldest daughter. What ever happened to Kate to make her this cynical, we still need to show her compassion and love, along with other who are negative.

Hugs

[Traci Elizabeth]

These are all interesting comments but in the end, each individual has to do what is right for them be it being extremely selfish and transitioning at any cost as Kate advocates, or someone following the "I can't hurt my kids, spouse, parents so I put them first" mentality to everything in between.

Even though Kate thinks she has all the answers for the rest of us, she ignores the realities of life. We do not live in a vacuum and actions we do take do effect others dear to use. As such, some of us modify our transition or timing to take these things into consideration because we are loving caring people.

I have transitioned late in life and have been living 24/7 outwardly as a woman for quite some time. I have completed all the legal requirements from name change to having ALL legal documents changed to Female including birth certificate.

Without trying to sound conceited just factual, I am never mistaken as a male. I am blessed to have always had a very feminine body and am very attractive, sensual, and sexy. I have a great female shape to include a beautiful set of beasts and dress very classy yet sexy. I never had hair issues as I only had peach fuzz on my body to begin with and a full head of hair. I am a perfect female height and weight. The last thing I have to complete is my SRS in Thailand at the beginning of the new year. I also have the loving support of my wife, adult daughter, and my grandchildren. My life has NEVER been this bliss or happier EVER!

Nevertheless, I DID take my loved one's feelings into consideration as well as my financial security to delay transitioning to later in life. I am very happy with my choices and for me, they have worked out for the best, and I have NO regrets for the choices I have made along the way.

So as irritated as Kate and others get at a lot of us and how judgmental they get of those who have not follow their footsteps, I get equally disappointed at the "holier-than-thou" Naysayers and Gainsayers.

A lot of people come on here for help not to be browbeaten as is often done. The one thing that is greatly missing here is "compassion."

We need to be less judgmental and more supportive and offer up positive solutions to problems or at least comforting and understanding support of those who are asking for help. It is always easier to bash or knock down someone else. It takes a much bigger person to try to offer up viable solutions and/or neutral considerations for those asking our help or using us as a sounding board to get their emotions out in the open.

I am not pussyfooting or taking a naive approach to life. I know all that can happen to us and how destructive transitioning can be. I am sure all of us know that. But that is not justification to act like a "wolf-pack" on a hurting sheep seeking a safe harbor here.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kelsy]

I mean if you dont have the resources to transition then ya might as well hang up your hat and be a man. I am sorry but this is reality!

Most trans people end up divorced and anyone who cannot work and has no resources to transition might as well call being trans a dream because that is what it will remain.


Katie

!

Thanks Katie

I think I'll go kill myself now!!

[Sejd]

there is a book called: the other side of the closet. I think you should read it. I also think you should find some common ground with your wife around this. You really need to think of what your priorities are and be clear to yourself about what you are willing to give up. How far would you let your wife transform into a man? Would you be OK about it? or would you feel you would end up living in a gay relationship? Tough questions right? but those are some of the stuff your SO is going through. Either get out or stop whining about compromising.

[Melody Moore]

We need to be less judgmental and more supportive and offer up positive solutions to problems or at least comforting and understanding support of those who are asking for help.

And this was the exact problem that affected my local support group until I replaced the former leadership.
It was that old adage "You are not a true transsexual if you don't have SRS". Since I have taken over there
are a several older girls who have come back to the group, and we have had 3 new girls join the group since.
Everyone of these people is a transsexual, who is on hormones and who also lives full-time as as a female.

[*Vanessa*]

... I mean if you dont have the resources to transition then ya might as well hang up your hat and be a man. I am sorry but this is reality!



Thanks Katie

I think I'll go kill myself now!!

Ya I get caught on that point also Kelsy. I have thought about this point since Katie wrote it. It almost sounds like a quiet brag in away. I guess my question is then; do all the children who should be helped end up killing themselves because of lack of money? I'm not trying to stir any pot here, it's just linear thinking. Health care from country to country varies a great deal around the world. Do we just toss children (upto legal age) out who need help to transition to become the best they can be? Or maybe just hand them over to Banana Girls porn studios so they can make their own money.

I get what you are saying here Katie, about fezzing up and reducing the families stress, I agree. In fact this point you have made struck deep and helped me re-cap my own Genie bottle. How could I even start thinking about transitioning if I can't afford my own meds that Mj my S/O is purchasing for me (in the name of a relationship). First we filter out the male ego resentment thing of maybe being wrong. Then we realize the vast majority of what’s being said here is spot on.

[Badtranny]

Either get out or stop whining about compromising.

no offense but you don't even have the courage to show your face ?

glass houses?

[nikkijo]

god im so glad i am my own person and can only bitch about my financal sitution to slow me down... and if i didnt want to be successful as a transgender woman not a man id be oh so much better off.... oh yeah... id still be married to a psycho controlling bitch who was successful at changing me to something im not.... screw you kate... ill be mtf preop until i free up enough to get that pesky birth defect fixed.. until then its just like a ugly birth mark u live with it and live your life as u see fit... go be annoying elsewhere...

[Rianna Humble]

A lot of people come on here for help not to be browbeaten as is often done. The one thing that is greatly missing here is "compassion."

We need to be less judgemental and more supportive and offer up positive solutions to problems or at least comforting and understanding support of those who are asking for help. It is always easier to bash or knock down someone else. It takes a much bigger person to try to offer up viable solutions and/or neutral considerations for those asking our help or using us as a sounding board to get their emotions out in the open.

I am not pussyfooting or taking a naive approach to life. I know all that can happen to us and how destructive transitioning can be. I am sure all of us know that. But that is not justification to act like a "wolf-pack" on a hurting sheep seeking a safe harbor here.

Well said, Traci. Some people don't seem to remember that this is primarily a support forum and seem intent on chasing out anyone who does not conform to their immature take on life.

It reminds me of when I went to a new school back in the stone age. At first, the attitude of the playground bullies made me hate the school, fortunately I didn't have the option of changing schools and went on to discover what had given the school an international reputation for excellence. With a forum scuh as this, it is easy for the new girl to be put off by the playground bullies and never get to find the excellent support that she needs.

[Kelsy]

[QUOTE=*Vanessa*;2647705]Ya I get caught on that point also Kelsy. I have thought about this point since Katie wrote it. It almost sounds like a quiet brag in away.
QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rianna Humble;2647865]Well said, Traci. Some people don't seem to remember that this is primarily a support forum and seem intent on chasing out anyone who does not conform to their immature take on life.
QUOTE]

The ugliest thing in the transsexual community is the higharchy pecking order thing. It sometimes becomes painful to witness but Gender dysphoria is a serious thing and there are some here I am sure that are crying out for support or just a kind ,caring word. Suicide statistics show that when a transitioning person is denied access to the surgeries and resources to move forward the depression sets in and the individual feels trapped and hopeless.
Let's spread a little more of that around /sar. It is beyond some here to understand that! Finally the ability to afford these things does in no way change the fact that some one is transsexual it only adds to the desperation. If you have the means great but don't look down your stuck up nose to those who don't! Maybe the energy is better spent on finding ways to help others through!!

[Sejd]

That is a good an kind note Kelsy.

[Aprilrain]

How far would you let your wife transform into a man? Would you be OK about it? or would you feel you would end up living in a gay relationship? Tough questions right? but those are some of the stuff your SO is going through. Either get out or stop whining about compromising.

I agree that if transition is needed and a spouse is not on board one should "get out" and allow that person to move on.
I don't agree that we "let" our spouses do anything. There are decisions that both people need to agree on in a marriage like buying a house or having kids but transition is not one of these decisions.
It's been said here before and I think it's worth repeating, if your not willing to lose everything transition is probably not right for you. luckily we don't usually lose EVERYTHING however I would venture to guess that marriages rarely survive transition.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the ts life is brutal..married life, middle age male life...maybe even worse than brutal..for the ts AND the wife...
some people are in the mode of being stuck and just wanting hugs and compassion, thats a real thing...hugs and compassion help people..

but we have a very unique problem, and its unwise to underestimate how massively things can change, and our risk for self harm is high...our thought process can be terribly out of whack.....
focusing on kate being stuck up is a very effective way to continue to avoid your problem...

saying, "yes thats my problem..those post of girls are stuck up..."....maybe so, but that's not your problem..your problem is that you are living as a man , and you are a woman (assuming you are being honest with yourself about your gender)..

late age transitioners poll
does anybody wish somebody hit you on the head when you were 20 and told you what your fate was?? that you had someone get in your face and tell you to drop the self pity and denial and get on with your life??

its no reason to be cruel ...i don't believe in cruel to be kind, but there is a place for tough talk..there is a journal section if people just want to go on about things and don't want a public response

.....i read that section, sometimes its very uplifting other times my heart breaks...

[Katesback]

Isnt it interesting how they focus on me as being everything evil? Funny because you and I have met. I am certainly not evil. On the other hand I am not the sort to listen to bugs and nut cases. I dont have patience for excuses. Excuses get you fired at work and they screw you up in life. You want to sit around and tell yourself all sorts of excuses then so be it but I dont want to hear it.

Does that make me better or at a higher level of life? LOL of course not even though some would say. One thing though is that I am a very small few who have lived the process and so if you who have yet to live the process think you know more than me, well thats when it gets entertaining.

You call this a support group. Well ok I can go for that. I have been very supportive in helping thouse that are serious and willing to face the real world. The real world does not have much sympathy for whiners, excuses, and nut cases.


Katie




the ts life is brutal..married life, middle age male life...maybe even worse than brutal..for the ts AND the wife...
some people are in the mode of being stuck and just wanting hugs and compassion, thats a real thing...hugs and compassion help people..

but we have a very unique problem, and its unwise to underestimate how massively things can change, and our risk for self harm is high...our thought process can be terribly out of whack.....
focusing on kate being stuck up is a very effective way to continue to avoid your problem...

saying, "yes thats my problem..those post of girls are stuck up..."....maybe so, but that's not your problem..your problem is that you are living as a man , and you are a woman (assuming you are being honest with yourself about your gender)..

late age transitioners poll
does anybody wish somebody hit you on the head when you were 20 and told you what your fate was?? that you had someone get in your face and tell you to drop the self pity and denial and get on with your life??

its no reason to be cruel ...i don't believe in cruel to be kind, but there is a place for tough talk..there is a journal section if people just want to go on about things and don't want a public response

.....i read that section, sometimes its very uplifting other times my heart breaks...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

LOL...to be honest Kate you came right at me with some very direct comments when we met too.....i was taken aback at first...

however, if i recall it correctly you had driven in a car from florida? to phila just to hang out with a girl who had srs and was all alone..
has anyone else shown that type of compassion???

it's still no reason to be so mean in some of your posts...:2c:
your message gets lost in it....

[Nicki S]

late age transitioners poll
does anybody wish somebody hit you on the head when you were 20 and told you what your fate was?? that you had someone get in your face and tell you to drop the self pity and denial and get on with your life??

Yes, I wish somebody would have done so. It has taken me half my life to come to terms with myself. I can't make up for lost time, but I am glad that I now realize who I need to be and I WILL get there.


Isnt it interesting how they focus on me as being everything evil? Funny because you and I have met. I am certainly not evil.

KatieI have meet you in person on one occasion and I will agree that you are a very nice person.

[Sara Jessica]

Finally I will ask you this question. In the end who are you most responsible to? Because I think I need to give ya a hint. Remember when you fly an airplane the flight attendant tells you in the event of a cabin depressureization the masks will fall. Thereafter you are instructed to put your mask on BEFORE doing it for a child.

Now I realize you might go and say "Kate thats not the same story". Ahh but it is. That story relates to the physical well being of someone as well as the mental well being because if the parent does not get oxygen they wont be helping the kids. What do you think someone who is living a lie is doing to thier kids? Do you think that perhaps if they actually tansitioned they would be mentally healthier and more able to care for thier kids? I mean really.

Katie

I think this is a fascinating analogy Katie. It works on a lot of levels. The bottom line, and where it works best in my situation, is that if I am unable to manage my mental-state around this whole thing to the point where is is a severe detriment to my children (rather than the mild to (rarely) moderate one it presents now), then yes, I'd have to completely rethink what the transition option means to me.


late age transitioners poll
does anybody wish somebody hit you on the head when you were 20 and told you what your fate was?? that you had someone get in your face and tell you to drop the self pity and denial and get on with your life??


Kaitlyn, yours is clearly a success story across many fronts. Whether your relationship with your ex-wife and your children is the exception or the rule doesn't matter so much in the question I am going to ask you. That is, what would your answer be? Then again, maybe this is a moot point because the road you took turned out pretty good from my POV.

I often say if I knew then (say, at 20) what I know now, I'd have transitioned back then which of course would be long before my wife and children entered the picture. And should I hold to that thought, it would be the equivalent as being willing to wish them away which is the LAST THING I'D EVER DO.

Still, I truly believe that with the fact that information is so much more readily available now than it was when many of us were younger, there will be fewer mid-life transitioners as time goes by. Many of these people will have in fact made their educated decisions at that young age before bringing marriage & possibly children into the mix.

Me? My children bring me sooooo much joy that to even dwell on a "what-if when I was 20" scenario would be a non-starter.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

got me sara!! LOL...nice catch.....in real world terms i can't have it both ways... and i'll feel successful when i have a job... i guess my plan was great until I chose 2008/2009 as the year to leave the workplace to transition

having kids was not my plan...i felt indifferent about children...it never really occured to me to go for kids...but i am so happy i did...and i would never ever ever ever wish them away...and i have cried many tears looking at my young daughters elementary school smiles on my fridge and i think.."if only they knew about me then they would not be so innocent and happy" or "i destroyed their lives"...this is true even tho i clearly didn't destroy anything!!!

however, since we are allowing for the idea of wishes..what i really wish was that i could have had a full life without the extra 30 years of conditioning as male, AND wish that i had my kids...all's fair in wish world!!!

i agree mid life transition will be less prevalent in the future....info is power... i would add i sought out the internet desperately looking for info all the way back to 2400 baud compuserve...its strange how i instinctively knew to seek out information almost immediately as it became available...while at the same time ignoring what i was finding out.. if you think about it from 30000, modern technology of all kinds has made transition possible, and it happened very recently and put those of us in the middle in a very nasty position..

i wonder if 50 years ago if every 45 yr old guy found under a bridge with a gunshot to the head and a note saying "im sorry" was one of us..i really do..

[Katesback]

I flew to Philly. I did not drive. The rest of your story is correct.




LOL...to be honest Kate you came right at me with some very direct comments when we met too.....i was taken aback at first...

however, if i recall it correctly you had driven in a car from florida? to phila just to hang out with a girl who had srs and was all alone..
has anyone else shown that type of compassion???

it's still no reason to be so mean in some of your posts...:2c:
your message gets lost in it....

[MJ]

i am very sad to see the attitude of some people here :(

First of all i care Trisha, and from what i understand of you i have to be honest has long as to stay in your relationship you will suffer.
you love the wife and children but the wife is not accepting and goes to a church that hates everything different from them.
your wife has the church in her corner you do not and you can't win.. ever; been there done that got the bumper sticker
like me you can stay and suffer for years. or just be your true-self you may well have to split up move on.
i feel your pain no matter what path you chose it's going to hurt. transitioning can be done if you want it bad enough you will find a way
we have no choice...this is not a choice

all the best sis

[Cindi Johnson]

Here's the joke GG's who've had the fortune/misfortune to entangle their lives with us have:

Question: What do you call a transexual spouse?

Answer: A deadbeat dad in a dress.

This shouldn't be so. A parent has responsibilities, like it or not. Those responsibilities must be considered when making any major decision, SRS included. It seems Kate's position is more than a bit self-centered.

[Frances]

Here's the joke GG's who've had the fortune/misfortune to entangle their lives with us have:

Question: What do you call a transexual spouse?

Answer: A deadbeat dad in a dress.

This shouldn't be so. A parent has responsibilities, like it or not. Those responsibilities must be considered when making any major decision, SRS included. It seems Kate's position is more than a bit self-centered.

Then again, many psychologists and pyschiatrists in my part of the world cannot reconcile investing one's masculinity to the point of becoming a father and a husband with being transsexual (they are very suspicious of the claims of their patient/client).

I know some people will try anything to cure themselves and others want children that bad, but if you are functional, why transition at all? Transition is not fun nor easy. It sucks. For many, it is the only way to avoid suicide. Is killing oneself less or more selfish than transitioning?

[Aprilrain]

This "dead beat dad" pays for everything! she didn't really appreciate it then I doubt she does now, F her.

[DJulie]

Trisha,

I feel you, I came out to my wife years ago and it ultimately ended the relationship, but I can't complain because now we are like girlfriends. Much love and support your way.

Julie~

[Kelsy]

You call this a support group. Well ok I can go for that. I have been very supportive in helping thouse that are serious and willing to face the real world. The real world does not have much sympathy for whiners, excuses, and nut cases.


Katie

I hear you Katie!! Thing is I recoil and hate the things you say but almost always agree with you after I think about it!! your experience is not lost on me even if i disagree with the way you put it out there!

K

[Starling]

...I can't complain because now we are like girlfriends...

That's the outcome I so desperately crave--without the initial breakup. I am working to make myself the kind of friend she could love, as a friend.

:) Lallie

[*Vanessa*]

I find it interesting that we pick at the little Qs and indifference like they really mean something and not give any credence (fiddler's f*ck) to the valid ones. Amazing!

[Starling]

Please clarify, Vanessa.

:) Lallie

[*Vanessa*]

as requested and offered without pregidous


... I guess my question is then; do all the children who should be helped end up killing themselves because of lack of money? I'm not trying to stir any pot here, it's just linear thinking. Health care from country to country varies a great deal around the world. Do we just toss children (upto legal age) out who need help to transition to become the best they can be? Or maybe just hand them over to Banana Girls porn studios so they can make their own money...

[Katesback]

Well thank you. I have tired and still do to some degree.




I hear you Katie!! Thing is I recoil and hate the things you say but almost always agree with you after I think about it!! your experience is not lost on me even if i disagree with the way you put it out there!

K

[Nicole Erin]

Kate, have you ever been married or had kids????

How dare someone question kate's infinite wisdom.

Anyways longing2be, Yeah just work on small transition stuff for now and as you can get other problems cleared, it makes it easier to go forward with how you need to live. It isn't always easy but just draw up a battle plan, even if it means hard choices like divorce. Things get easier as battles pass, even if you win or lose them

[tessa_ann]

PS I would be grossed out as well if my MAN had shaved legs, long finger nails, and painted toenails. Sorry but thats not stuff men do!

Wait...What!?? That's the most hypocritical thing I have ever read. You're trans, right? Where the heck do you come off saying something like that to someone obviuously upset? Seriously, that was a really jerk dig to throw in there. Completely unnecessary.

[Tara D. Rose]

Wait...What!?? That's the most hypocritical thing I have ever read. You're trans, right? Where the heck do you come off saying something like that to someone obviuously upset? Seriously, that was a really jerk dig to throw in there. Completely unnecessary.

Yes I agree Tessa, I have seen so many TS's be standoffish and critical towards crossdressers. It's the same place where they once were.

[Bree-asaurus]

I dunno... Kate sounds harsh but she just has strict requirements for her partners. Being trans herself hasn't opened up her mind to other people who do not fit the norm.

Then again, I would be put off if my boyfriend started shaving his legs, painting his nails and wearing dresses... and my boyfriend is an FTM. I wouldn't break up with him, but it would require some adjustment on my part...

[Starling]

What of our requirements in a partner are actually more about the neighbors?

:) Lallie

[Melody Moore]

Yes I agree Tessa, I have seen so many TS's be standoffish and critical towards crossdressers. It's the same place where they once were.
I consider myself to be a very open minded and non-judgemental person who respects everyone usually,
and I have to say that I have also seen many transphobic crossdressers interfering, pushing their own
agendas or ideologies, causing confusion and interfering with those who are transsexual, trying to talk
them out of transition, yadda, yadda, yadda... it's a two way street. And sometime I just wish the CDers
would butt right out of issues posted here on the transsexual forum, because it is not the crossdressers
these people are seeking advice from - especially given the fact that a crossdresser usually has no clue
about what being a transsexual is even about.

Even though Kate is harsh in the her delivery and yes she does forget where she came from, but she also has
experience as post op trans-woman and does contribute a lot here on this forum. I also wish she would learn to
be more tolerant and respectful of others. But I also see a number of crossdressers here who need to do the same.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[Katesback]

Crossdressers in the TRANSSEXUAL section? That could never happen. No that cannot happen. And the though of a crossdresser giving someone who is actually transsexual advice is laughable. I suppose that would be like me giving someone who is jewish advice on how to be jewish (and no I am not jewish).

Oh well its all cool. The entertainment factor of this place is what makes it worth it.






I consider myself to be a very open minded and non-judgemental person who respects everyone usually,
and I have to say that I have also seen many transphobic crossdressers interfering, pushing their own
agendas or ideologies, causing confusion and interfering with those who are transsexual, trying to talk
them out of transition, yadda, yadda, yadda... it's a two way street. And sometime I just wish the CDers
would butt right out of issues posted here on the transsexual forum, because it is not the crossdressers
these people are seeking advice from - especially given the fact that a crossdresser usually has no clue
about what being a transsexual is even about.

Even though Kate is harsh in the her delivery and yes she does forget where she came from, but she also has
experience as post op trans-woman and does contribute a lot here on this forum. I also wish she would learn to
be more tolerant and respectful of others. But I also see a number of crossdressers here who need to do the same.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[Tamara Croft]

This thread is done....