Help

[Sarahgurl371]

what should I do? Quick history, married 14 years, told wife 8 years ago I like lingerie and stuff, Very emotional night, she said OK but If you ever wear a dress, I outta here. Naturally, I wimped out and shut up. Fast forward to 2 years ago. Brought it all up again, told her the truth, feelings, emotion, sex, everything. We've had huge ups and downs, saw a marraige counselor, I've been to a shrink and told I'm OK. She cannot or will not accept this now. Compromised and all that ya know, Sorry I'm in a hurry, she will be home soon. Now she won't even leave the house, as in taking some time to evalute her feelings because "she is afraid of what I will be doing when she is not here". What the hell does that mean? This is starting to sound like control, not love. Any ideas. Oh yeah, she won't read a book, look at the net nothing. She has recently started seeing a therapist, he says we are not meant to be together.

[tammie]

HI All: Sounds to me she has made up her mind. My take on your sit. is; if U want to keep her U gotta compromise IE no dresses , maybe panties without lace and the occational bra or shapewear cami. If she is leaving then make yourself happy and go forward. Goodluck to U.

[Deborah]

Sounds like all or nothing to me too. Give it up and keep her or dress and let her go.

RE---Therapist are not always experts they are just supposed to get you to talk, then you come to your own conclusions. Any therapist that includes their own personal opinion is not worth seeing. Tell her to get a second opinion.

[Stephenie]

Can't help much as I am still trying to work things out with my wife. As for it sounding like control, it sounds like what mine says too. And did the therapist tell you your not suppose to be together or did your wife tell you he said it?

[Julie York]

"Now she won't even leave the house, as in taking some time to evalute her feelings because "she is afraid of what I will be doing when she is not here". What the hell does that mean? This is starting to sound like control, not love. Any ideas. Oh yeah, she won't read a book, look at the net nothing. She has recently started seeing a therapist, he says we are not meant to be together."

It IS control....and she is loving it in some sort of 'poor victim me' way or she'd make more effort to kick you out, learn more, forgive, or move out herself.

"She won't read a book, look at the net, nothing"...she is loving it in some sort of revenge way and has no wish to let go of the power she has by actually understanding it. She's a kid wobbling an achy tooth.

"He says we are not meant to be together"........I would suspect he didn't actually say that (not in that way anyway) if you ever got a chance to know what was really said.



That'll be £50. Thank you.

[robinLynn]

that is control not love. time to reevaluate the marriage. Any kids involved??

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Unfortunately, I think Julie put her finger on what's going on.

I'm not sure the prognosis is good, but if possible see if she's willing to do some joint therapy/marriage counseling again. If she's not willing to do that, then you'll need to decide whether it's worth continuing the marriage.

[Sarahgurl371]

OK I've calmed down a little now, went on a rant earlier and apologize about it, sorry. She left for work and I went for a ride, nothing like a little oxygen therapy.

To answer Robin's question, no we do not have children. I've always been pretty upset about that one, but maybe its for the best. I've read all the posts from members who do have children, and cannot imagine how that could further complicate all these issues.

Part of the problem here is that she says This is OK, and not that. So I agree to the compromise, and then she changes her mind. Then I beg for forgiveness and a month or two goes by and the cycle repeats itself. I realize now that I have handled this all wrong and that My advice to CDs who would tell thier SO is to not be afraid to talk about it. I was so ashamed of myself for being who I am that I think she has taken that attitude from me, except I am learning and she will not attempt it. This really sucks. I no that to make her happy I must tell her that I will never do this again. I know from my experience with this and from what you all have written etc., that I would be lying if I said this to her. Two weeks ago, she brought me home two nice skirts and two pair of shoes, I posted about it here. Now we are at the point of total non acceptance. She now doesn't even give her permission to dress when she isn't home. I ask myself, why do I need her permission anyway? By the way, I haven't taken advantage of the situation and our compromises. One Of the first books I read on this was Crossdressing With Dignity, by Peggy Rudd. Its a good book and gives US some perspective of the way our spouses might feel.

About 2 months ago we were discussing this stuff and she stated thru tears that she needed to talk to somebody. I've been urging her to do that for two years now. A month later and she hadn't contacted anyone yet. We have another conversation, in which I stress that I want her to talk to someone for HER mental health, not HER acceptance of me. Whatever happens I want her to be happy in life. Then I get "I will never be with another man again, cuz I am not gonna risk getting hurt like this again." I'm getting tired of feeling guilty about all this, I would worry that I'd done her harm anyway, ya know? So anyway, she goes to the therapist, and he says all the stuff about me putting myself in front of her and that we are not compatible, and that he does'nt see this working out. I just posted earlier today on another thread about the 51% rule and all that. Any rate she goes again last night, and of course we get into when she gets home, thats when she said all the stuff about what i'd be doing if left home alone and that. My goal here is happiness and acceptance, both self and my partner's. This is nothing that most of us haven't been through.

Anyway today when she came home, she calls the therapist to cancel her next appointment, when I questioned her about it she said that she isn't going to go there every time she has a day off because she has others things to do. Kinda upset me, but I just shut up. finally she asks what is wrong, so I told her - I thought fixing us was pretty important, and that you really needed to talk to somebody to help you figure things out. Now apparently its not that important anymore, as you have better things to do with your day off, like sleeping in (her example, not mine). Anybody else take this the way that I do?

BTW when we went to marraige counseling she decided after a couple of sessions that she didn't need to go anymore, cuz I was the one with the problem. As I write this I almost cannot believe that I am still here. I've given her everything I could, worked my butt off to get where we are in life, and all I've asked for is this. lets at least try.

I guess I'm basically afraid of being wrong and ending up alone, and that people will think I'm a freak or something. I apparently have a way to go with self acceptance. But once I get there, how can I possibly live in a situation like this? How can I stay with a person who is disgusted by this part of me?

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

A couple things...

I don't know if you've seen Marla's excellent posts on the
acceptance pendulum (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890) that SOs go through, but it sounds like some of that is going on.

Not to make you feel bad, but I've heard from some GGs that it's easier for them to accept if their CD is self-accepting. Whereas if their CD feels they're weird and perverted, they tend to think the same thing.

Obviously there's more going on than just this -- from what you've described it seems to be more about control than love -- but if you can reach a place of being more self-accepting it will put you in place to assert yourself better. She's able to break the agreements you two make because she knows you'll back down.

Of course, if you stand up and ask that she keep her end of the bargin, she might back down -- or she might leave. That's the risk.

Ending a marriage is obviously consequential, but I think you've framed the questions you need to answer for yourself.

I know you've got some hard decisions ahead, so best of luck.

[HaleyPink2000]

Have been Married two times. My First was like yours. Very into being the one that ruled the house. All the way down to what I wore each day and ate.
My children and I where totally told what to do from moment to moment.
Worked 2 to 3 jobs a day same as many here. No making Her happy no matter what I did try or say.

Glad she's gone!

Now have been married this time 23 years and my wife is the type that does not like my being a CD. But since I am ok with it. She has found that there are 2 choices. Come along with me, and do some of the things I do. Or stay home. Well She's starting to come around. This Saturday we have a Halloween party, and she said she would go, even bought a costume and all to go with me. She knows it is a TriEss party also. To spin back a few weeks.
The first time I asked Her to go to it with me I thought Her and I had been in one of the worst fights of our marriage. All the yelling and crying from Her end though. I stayed the sensitive one and tried to be calm. As I know what I am and want. With some e-mails to Her ISP account from Tamara from here. Also a few E-mailings from some other GG's from the Forum, She's not said anything, but treats me better. It's a thing that she would not read about on the net or any books. Also My wife would not talk about it except to point fingers and say I'm sick. That was hurtful to me, big time.
I'm hoping that this party will lighten Her up on my CDing. But just as yours My wife did and say simular things. Mine is a graduate from a Christian College. From Her She says this is a sin. OK I said show that to me from the Bible. You know what She could not. It's not in the New portion of the bible.

But again like you I was punished to the point of tears by both wives. Neither did like what I am. But this one is willing to try to love me enough to maybe understand me. Or at least Love me enough to let me live the life I want to live, which includes being with Her.

This has taken me 23 years with this wife. Nothing has happened for me over night. Maybe you, but never for me.

Haley:)

[Deborah]

.

she didn't need to go anymore, cuz I was the one with the problem.

LMAO my ex-wife used to say that. I don't have a problem with dressing up she did. Ahh the irony. :D

[DonnaT]

Tammy, my wife has known for 30 years and there were times when she would toss out the compromising and say no more. We worked through it. In the past year we've been out (me enfemme) together twice, she buys me things, and even makes me jewelry.

During all the ups and downs, I made sure not to change the way I showed her my love.

I would suggest that you volunteer to see her therapist with her, so her therapist can get a feel for who you are. No therapist should make decisions about someone they've never met, and have only heard about from a one-sided point of view. If your wife refuses, call the therapist yourself and ask to come in. This is very important, especially if your wife is saying the therapist is making comments not made and if she delaying or refusing to go again.

[Lauren_T]

Tammy, I'm operating on experience and intuition in noting this...

She went to a therapist of her choice, right? Perhaps she was referred by a friend...?

Please be aware of an unfortunate phenomenon which has become an unwelcome taint on the counseling biz.

First, always remember that, in many states, all one has to do to become a 'therapist' or 'counselor' is to claim to be one, no professional licensing, certification or other such credential needed.

Next, with the general decline in ethics, there are individuals who have discovered the profit potential in telling clients what they want to hear... It's become a growth industry. We now have 'therapists' who will inspire client loyalty (along with repeat business and referrals) by "counselling" clients - usually women - who are in conflict with their SOs that they are, of course, always correct - whatever the circumstances. Because male-bashing has become the lazy-minded woman's idea of "liberation," these so-called 'therapists' who rubberstamp their clients' claims, right or wrong, find that their satisfied customers will refer friends and acquaintances and grow their client base for them.

That her 'therapist' has placed you in the wrong with no input from you is the very definition of prejudice; it's unprofessional at best and likely a sign of either lack of ethics - or lack of competence! Is this guy a psychiatrist, an actual MD, or even a psychologist - or neither? If he's an actual M.D., you may have the option of lodging a complaint with the appropriate psychiatric association and / or other professional body.

Anyway, I observed long ago that crap like this happens way too often when a couple each sees a different therapist, counselor, whatever...

Joint sessions with an agreed-upon, certified, endorsed professional who will mediate and work to facilitate communication of the underlying issues is what you need here - not someone who passes judgement on you in absentia and only reinforces your SO's irrational thoughts... But it would appear that he's already served his purpose in planting wrongful thoughts in her mind and cementing those she already had in place. Undoing that damage ain't gonna be easy, but I'm sure you realise that...

[Ginagirl]

Hi Tammy
Very sorry too hear about the situation. I think Lauren T brought up some great points as well as a few of the other girls. It sounds like you really value your marriage and your wife. Perhaps you should "regroup". Tell your wife your gonna take a week or two or three off from dressing. It's like a cooling off period, where she won't have to worry and think about you dressing. It could give the both of you some time to think about it. In the mean time research some therapists who you find to be acceptable and present them too her for her input. And suggest counseling together.

When i told my wife her immediate reaction was don't shave your arms and go slowly. In other words, Don't show up completely transformed tomorrow. I, of course readily agreed. I find that alot of times when I get something new I hold back on showing her to allow for more time to pass. Perhaps your wife has a difficult time seeing you in a dress? My wife saw me in a wig for the first time last week. She made a comment that I could go outside and our neighbors would not recognize me. I said nothing. later on she said, she liked my wig choice, but........ it really changed the way I look. She said I didn't really look like myself. Perhaps this is a fear or a significant point between a cd and a SO. Maybe it is at this point when we really start to take on the female persona, that they have to take a step back, or catch theor breath. I think it our responsibility (especially if we told them about cd after marriage) to go as slowly as they need it. Yes, CD is apart of who we are, but my wife is a significant part of me as well. I am fortunate, because my wife participates in my cding, and a major part of that is being open and willing to make sacrifices. Communication, I think is the key to success. Your wife seems to have hit a sticking point and has shut down. Perhaps some short term sacrifices and some work on your part can get those wheels turning again. Eight years is a long time. It's worth the effort.

Best of luck, keep us abreast. - I love that word - Breast -

[Sarahgurl371]

Thank you all,

"I don't know if you've seen Marla's excellent posts on the
acceptance pendulum that SOs go through, but it sounds like some of that is going on.

Not to make you feel bad, but I've heard from some GGs that it's easier for them to accept if their CD is self-accepting. Whereas if their CD feels they're weird and perverted, they tend to think the same thing. "

The acceptance pendullum? Very interesting. I swear to you all I am not making this stuff up. I know it sounds very wierd. Last night after we had the conversation about her not needing to go to the counselor, and she went to work, I set out to find an apartment for myself. Ended up not finding one, just riding around for a while. I really thought I had reached the end, and had bolstered myself into changing my life. Anyway she comes home from work and hands me a bag. Inside is a pair of nice tall black boots ( I have been wanting a pair for year).

Obviously this development warranted some disscusion, so I asked "whats up with this, and thank you". She said that she is not gonna end this marraige over something this stupid, and she is gonna try it again. I agreed with her that, yes I will admit that this is stupid, stupid but part of me. During the conversation, I told her that the frustrating part of this for me, is the fact that one day ths is OK and the next I am a sicko or something. I cannot comprehend how it can change like this. For the most part, once I make a deal with someone, I stick to my word. All this back and forth is really taking a toll on me, and her I'm sure. I had reached the point earlier in the day where I felt as thought all hope was lost. This made me very sad, thinking of all the things I will miss about her, something as simple as reaching back and putting my arm on her knee as we ride down the road on a beautiul evening on the bike, just to know that she is there to share this with me. Anyway, today i read this post about the acceptance pendullum and go "hummmmm", could it be? I know that we still have some work ahead, the good news, I have some hope back. I do not like the feeling of losing all hope.

The self acceptance thing is something I had thought of and mentioned in an earlier post, and BTW, I am not offended, I asked for some advise, and I thank you all. I have had a huge problem with myself concerning CDing. I used to think that because I did this stuff, something very bad would happen to those that I love, My way of trying to squash this thing into submission. Years and years of that had taken its toll on me. I also have some anxiety issues,(found this out with my psychiatrist). I even told my shrink that I believe I have internalized how I think others will react to, and used that to beat myself up. I agree very much that my perception of me, can, and has affected how she has reacted to me. I'm working on it. Unfortunatley, my comming out to her was also, I had hoped, tohelp me accept myself. I know that sounds wierd, but I just thought that if someone who Knows me, can love and accept me, then I can as well. I know now that I have to do this for myself. No one can make me happy but me.

"She went to a therapist of her choice, right? Perhaps she was referred by a friend...?"

Yes she was referred by a friend. I believe he is a psychologist, has a nice sized and detailed add in the phone book, doesn't specialize in CD/TG/TS stuff, but doea "specialize" in sexual disfunction/addiction. my wife thinks that is what I have. I would definately be willing to go and will have to leave that up to her.

"Very sorry too hear about the situation. I think Lauren T brought up some great points as well as a few of the other girls. It sounds like you really value your marriage and your wife. Perhaps you should "regroup". Tell your wife your gonna take a week or two or three off from dressing. It's like a cooling off period, where she won't have to worry and think about you dressing. It could give the both of you some time to think about it. In the mean time research some therapists who you find to be acceptable and present them too her for her input. And suggest counseling together."

Again thank you for the advise. I have taken a whole bunch of time off from dressing. I have taken time off from just about everything in my life that she has a problem with. I have read about stories from couples who the SO doesn't, or has a hard time with acceptance, and how the CD just keeps right on going with HIS desries without consideration for HER emotion. I just think that is wrong plain and simple. Even at this low point in our relationship, I would never do that. I got dressed Sunday. I told her ahead of time that I was going to, and she made no objection. Our latest deal was she didn't want to see it. I hadn't dressed since July 10. Thats three months. This is not the longest period I have abstained for her sake. I have given her happiness priority in this and all ohter aspects of our marraige.

I cannot however "not think about it". It is causing a huge problem in our marraige, how can I NOT think about it all. Not thinking about dressing, but the situation. And I will not lie to or deceive her anymore about this stuff, she is entitled to the truth.

I did not want to recommend a counselor to her for fear that she or others would think I was trying to manipulate her for my gain. Whatever happens to us, it is important that I know I did everything I could to save us, and that I handled myself in a dignified and non coercing way. Whatever her desicion, it will be of her free will.

Sorry this is so long, You never realize how many words are said in conversation, til you have to write them all out.

Thank you all again for your concern and your input.

[Keri]

Tammy: You stated that when you went to marriage counseling she decided after a couple of sessions that she didn't need to go anymore, cuz you were the one with the problem. Boy - does that bring back memories!

My gal initially complanied that, if she had wanted to be a lesbian, she would have married a REAL woman. She found it hard to bed a guy in a nightie, and only "encouraged" it when she had her own needs to fulfil as she felt I could only "be a man" when attired as a woman. She also had GREAT problems with the possibility I'd take my crossdressing outside the bedroom (kids at home!) or even [God forbid] outside the house. It would be way too embarassing.

Suggestion? BE the male of her dreams in parallel to being feminine at times.
Heck .. it'll be like having two husbands in one for the lucky gal.

[size7satin]

I hated when my wife jumped the "god" wagon when first talked about my cd .... she knew of the undies and once found my stash, made me purge.....same old storie same old lies I will stop......

When I lost her, the end alone feeling hit , yes I have my kids and they know and accept more then she ever did. But you still are alone and it sucks..... then one day you remember that to every end there is a new beggining.

But the GOD I never understood that....... Are we all not made in the image of god?

God must look Killer in a 5 inch heels :eek:

[Billie Renee]

If she is seeing a therapist she should be seeing one that deals with gender disorders so that she can also be informed about the different types of gender disorders. It may help her see how you feel and you should both seek counsiling together.