Crossdressing verses Crossover (open to all)

[sanderlay]

In doing some searches on the internet I ran across a term called "crossover". This was found in a book entitled... 'Continuity and Transformation in Culture and Politics' - By Eugenia Siapera. (2004)

The writer defined crossover as a form of cross-dressing and wrote... "This is about women wearing pants and men wearing makeup." I found this a disturbing definition because I'm sure many women and men may object to being lumped into cross-dressing just because women might wear pants or men might wear makeup.

The writer defined cross-dressing as about gender confusion and about a gay identity. The writer wrote more but I just stopped reading as I found it disturbing and disagreed with what was written.

Personally I don't believe gender confusion or a gay identity has to exist to crossdress. It may be in some persons, to one degree or another, but this is lumping all persons into one label which is not accurate and just continues hurtful stereo types.

Personally... I dislike the term crossdressing since I mix clothing of both genders most of the time. Crossover to me seems a more accurate term for what I do as I'm not trying to present as female.

[kimdl93]

This writer chose to coin a term and define it to her purposes. That's perfectly all right. But sometimes people over reach in trying to make a point. The idea that women wearing pants is similar to men wearing make up, for example, is to me a rather an over reach. Women have a much different attitude towards clothes...and frankly I don't buy it.

As for the idea that cross dressing reflects gender confusion - maybe. But only to the extent that an individual cross dresses but doesn't accept or is unsure about how her personal gender identification. Linking CDing to homosexuality is a familiar mistaken belief. Some of us are straight, some gay and some - somewhere in between.

Ultimately, one can define oneself any way he/she wishes. So, be a crossover if you wish....or perhaps a hybrid ;)

[Kaz]

Little boxes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_2lGkEU4Xs

[ReineD]

I can think of several instances of men who wear makeup and who do not crossdress the way that crossdressing is represented on this site: drag queens who do this strictly for entertainment and who do not dress off stage, goths, mimes, rock stars or anyone in the media who goes before the camera, men in the corporate world who wish to look younger, or anyone who wishes to be original and make a fashion statement. None of these men present themselves as women, other than the drag queens who do it only for the stage.

http://www.google.com/search?q=goths&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=571&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yPC6Ttf1GMLs0gHM2vjXCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQsAQ

http://www.google.com/search?q=goths&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=571&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yPC6Ttf1GMLs0gHM2vjXCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQsAQ#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=mimes&pbx=1&oq=mimes&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=25994l26947l0l27170l5l5l0l0l0l0l465l894l1.1 .1.0.1l4l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=6a7ae4f60c4333df&biw=1024&bih=571

http://www.wikihow.com/Apply-Makeup-as-a-Man

http://www.askmen.com/daily/austin_60/95_fashion_style.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18062886/ns/health-forbes_com/t/man-your-face-looks-nice-it-makeup/#.Trrv9lbpNvo

http://www.bellasugar.com/Pictures-Men-Wearing-Makeup-Guyliner-2797559

The last link to guys who wear eye liner: social constructs proscribing male and female styles are constantly changing (compare contemporary styles to those of a few centuries ago). If makeup for men is becoming more mainstream, then this is not crossing over, any more than it is when women wear pants. The men who wear this type of makeup are still representing themselves as men, just as women who wear pants represent themselves as women.

Maybe the term "crossover" does not describe gender so much as it is a description of our changing fashions?

And where to androgynes fit? Androgynous styles are becoming fashionable as well, and the question is a study in itself. I suppose the determination would be the motive. Does the person dress this way in order to be edgy and stylish? Do they enjoy defying convention? Is their aim to gender bend a social statement or a reflection of their identity? Do they feel male, female, or a blend of both? There are many questions to answer when it comes to androgynes.

[Kittyagain]

If she is not one of us, then why care how she sees our community from the outside.

I do see your point but it is obvious she did not intend for us to be part of her readers.

Kitty

[abigailf]

I personally never really looked at crossdressing as a gender identity label. To me it is simply wearing something intended for the opposite sex; whether that is pants, tees, or makeup. There are many men in well to do places that get manicures regularly and wear makeup to darken their eyebrows or lashes and have no concen about looking feminine or be viewed as transgendered. As Reine said they do it to look younger and probably to come off more polished in their business arena.

Crossover, sounds like the name of an SUV.

[Karren H]

The only labels I use I make with my old manual Dymo label maker...

[LeaP]

The writer defined cross-dressing as about gender confusion and about a gay identity.

As an FYI, "gender confusion" is a formulation used in certain evangelical circles in an attempt to debunk current psychological and medical thinking on gender. The further tie to gay issues is a huge red flag. Look a bit further and I guarantee you'll be reading about aversion therapies and other "cures."

Lea

[Frédérique]

The writer defined cross-dressing as about gender confusion and about a gay identity. The writer wrote more but I just stopped reading as I found it disturbing and disagreed with what was written. Personally I don't believe gender confusion or a gay identity has to exist to crossdress. It may be in some persons, to one degree or another, but this is lumping all persons into one label which is not accurate and just continues hurtful stereo types. Personally... I dislike the term crossdressing since I mix clothing of both genders most of the time. Crossover to me seems a more accurate term for what I do as I'm not trying to present as female.

The author is prejudiced, I would say, and this is the kind of prejudice that gets read, passed along, and taken as gospel by those who fail to research things beyond the “shallow” level. Crossdressing does have a gay connection, or, more accurately, it once did, but these days the word transvestite has taken on all the trappings of gay connotation (at least in America). To an outsider, a crossdresser is associated with gay or alternative lifestyles – any effeminacy that a male would willingly take on MUST be seen in that context, because any other explanation is beyond the pale. This is precisely why there is so much discussion on this site about being gay, or being perceived as gay, since nobody can accurately or definitively explain why a heterosexual male would wish to dress as a female…

I mean, I could tell them, but I’m sure their eyes would glaze over, along with their ears, and my efforts would all be in vain. It’s all about misinformation, reinforced by the media at every turn (take this book, for example), and it’s not going to change anytime soon. Generalization is a way of life, and things are getting worse, if you ask me. People just don’t have the time to look into things for themselves, and the same old references that “stuck” in a bygone era are passed along for everyone’s ignorance. I use prejudice as a measuring stick – I don’t mind being thought of as homosexual, but someone who insists I MUST be gay is shallow and ignorant. It’s sad and amusing at the same time, but effeminacy in ANY form is not seen as a good thing these days. Masculinity is a virtue to be celebrated (THEY say), so crossdressing, a technique whereby a male reduces his inherent masculinity, must be wrong, meaning gay, in today's world. It’s extremely unfair, to be sure…
:sad:

[sanderlay]

... Ultimately, one can define oneself any way he/she wishes. So, be a crossover if you wish....or perhaps a hybrid ;)

I have to agree with your assessment. I suspect there will always be someone out there trying to drive home the stereo types for their own purposes.



Little boxes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_2lGkEU4Xs

Always loved that song... and the track homes that inspired it.



... Maybe the term "crossover" does not describe gender so much as it is a description of our changing fashions? ...

Thank you for your post, links and so many different issues this brings up. I do agree with many points you make. It's to easy for a writer too see only what they want to and ignore such a large body of evidence only to say what they want to in an inaccurate and narrow way.

As for the term... "crossover"... meaning changing fashions... YES... I agree. I would take that a step farther to rid ourselves of gender specific clothing. And then perhaps so many labels that lump actions in certain groups. If you want to know about a person go to them. Let the person define themselves.



If she is not one of us, then why care how she sees our community from the outside.

I do see your point but it is obvious she did not intend for us to be part of her readers.

I suspect little was done to look at both points of view. The writer's words appear very one sided and hold little weight with me. But I was most interested in... "crossover"... and it's possible description and meaning it could be for our community.



... Crossover, sounds like the name of an SUV.

Good points... And I suspect a hybrid SUV.



The only labels I use I make with my old manual Dymo label maker...

Assigning labels is recipe for a disaster in the making. :eek:



As an FYI, "gender confusion" is a formulation used in certain evangelical circles in an attempt to debunk current psychological and medical thinking on gender. The further tie to gay issues is a huge red flag. Look a bit further and I guarantee you'll be reading about aversion therapies and other "cures."

I'm not surprised. That's why I give little weight to the writer's words and stopped reading any further. Hard to find... "fair and balanced"... these days.

[sanderlay]

... People just don’t have the time to look into things for themselves, and the same old references that “stuck” in a bygone era are passed along for everyone’s ignorance. ...

Critical thinking is a must today... and it's one reason I question every tradition.