Birth Order?

[Acastina]

The question of birth order has come up a few times recently. Some research suggests that second and subsequent sons born to mothers with multiple sons have a statistically higher incidence of TG issues. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

I thought it might be fun to survey the membership as to siblings and birth order.

I'm a third son, with a brother two years older and a deceased brother who was four years older. I knew from early-on that my parents had been hoping for a girl, and I exhibited TG behaviors early (although I soon learned to disguise and conceal it). They finally had their daughter 13 months after me and she was a tomboy who now lives in a decidedly masculine style. I'm pretty sure she doesn't own a skirt or makeup, is a total sports nut, and never had an SO as far as I know (we're very close, so I would know).

An interesting side point for those who like the nature/nurture question of why we're like this: Our brothers shared a room across the house (which I considered to be a kind of forbidden zone), and my sister and I shared a room until we moved across town when I was ten. I came out fem at heart (but accomplished at playing the boy role, even if my heart isn't in it) and she came out butch all the way. I can ponder the implications of that until my brain hurts...

What about it, sisters? Older brothers?

[Katelyn B]

I'm the first son, with a younger sister (2 years).

Being younger, she did seem to get all the breaks, i.e. when we got into trouble together, I was blamed, everything I had to "earn" (negotiating more pocket money), she got by default

[Anna Lorree]

I am the third son. My oldest brother is 4 1/2 years older than me, the middle brother is 3 years older than me, and we have a sister who is 3 years younger than me. I know they wanted a girl. I was often told I should have been a girl. I started dressing and wishing I could have been a girl around 3-5 years old. Oddly, my sister is much more like a "typical guy" in many respects than I am. Sounds very much like your situation, doesn't it?

My brothers were in constant competition, I wanted none of it.

Anna

[RenneB]

First born. Had the house to myself and ma for the first 5 years before the sisters came along. Wore stuff from mom's drawer until age 12 or so and then it just went away for a while. Went to the cousins house at 17 and picked up a few things that fit. That went great for a year then off to college. Purge and dropped it for four years. By 23 picked it up again and .... well that's another thread....

Renne....

[Karren H]

First also... There goes that theory!! Lol.

[Jilmac]

I'm the first born son after three girls. I have a brother eight years younger but as far as I know he has no TG leanings.

["Mary"]

First again. (Intuitively, first makes more sense to me)

[joank]

My older sister was an only child.

[Alberta_Pat]

First born, followed by sister, brother, gap, brother, brother.

[Veronica Lodge]

I am the youngest of 5 boys..

[Mrs Roads]

I'm the youngest with only one brother, and I know that my mother wanted me to be born a girl. She said as much in the past, how she was hoping that I would pop out as a beautiful baby daughter :) Deep underneath that thrilled me and if she only knew I wish for the same thing hehe :battingeyelashes:

[Alice Edwards]

I was the middle child of 3 was supposted to be a girl

[Rikidee]

I am the second born with one older brother and two younger brothers. I was always much smaller in stature than the others. Spent my younger life trying to prove I could do anything the bigger boys did while I was slipping around dressing in girls clothes everytime I got a chance. The brothers did participate on occasion when our playing required someone to be a girl!!! Guess who always volunteered!! Hugs Riki

[DebbieL]

I'm the oldest, and attracted almost exclusively to women, but very TS in gender identity.

There is definitely a correlation between stress levels during pregnancy and gender identity shifts in men. Males produce testosterone in the early stages, which impacts brain and finger development. If that testosterone has been "flushed away" by stress, poor diet, smoking, booze, or certain drugs, or other biochemical factors produced by stressful environments, there are significant differences. The ring finger is longer than the index finger and the limbic system is smaller, making them less aggressive and more "serene".

This pattern has been particularly noticable in extreme situations such as the Concentration camps of Germany, high crime areas, and refugee camps.

Women who have high amounts of testosterone during pregnancy can produce more masculine girls. This testosterone could be produced by the mother (common in overweight women), or as a result of various sexual activities during the first 2 months of pregnancy. In this case, the girls may have longer index fingers than ring fingers, and a larger limbic system, making them more inclined to violence, anger, and aggression. Ironically, since masculine women are also likely to have a stronger sex drive, they are also more likely to enjoy sex during pregnancy, making them more likely to produce more masculine girls.

Birth order could contribute to stress. If a mother is already stressed out by the first child, and the second pregnancy was unplanned, then there may be a higher likelihood of feminized males.

As for sexual preference, this also seems to be a different symptom of similar traits biological patterns. There seems to be some relationship between Limbic development and gender preference, but not really a solid difference. Many alpha males prefer men, and many femme males prefer females.

We know that sexual preference is solidly defined by the time a a child is 4-5 years old, possibly as soon as they are "potty trained". This would be the age at which they are able to experiment with the sensations produced by touching primary genitalia, since they are no longer covered by diapers.

How this simple input gets wired to sexual preferences is not well known at all. It could be that older siblings provide friendships and goals which then get translated to sexual desire. Very hard to say exactly how birth order might play into this. If primary caregiver at that age were the driving factor, then both men and women would mostly be attracted to women. Instead, most end up being attracted to someone resembling a parent of the opposite sex. In the absence of a parent, it could be another trusted adult or older child.

Perhaps the shift from rural economy to urban economy has resulted in more stress, producing more gender displacement. At the same time, the increase in dual-income families means that preference patterns could be imprinted based on any number of different pattterns, including playmates in day-care, day-care care givers, or baby-sitters as well as older siblings.

I'd be interested

Related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_psychology

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1559906/?tool=pmcentrez

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453005001770

[LeaP]

Middle of 5. Older sisters, younger brothers.

I'm not seeing much theory correlation in the thread!

Lea

[Tara D. Rose]

I'm also the middle of five.

L&R.......................Tara

[sanderlay]

I'm the first and only child.

[kymmieLorain]

First also... There goes that theory!! Lol.

Yeah, first and only son, I do have an older sister.

Kymmie

[MackenzieMarigold]

First son, but I have an older sister.

[LeaP]

On digit ratios: First, it's a larger or smaller RATIO, not digit length per se. The ratio is 2nd (index) over 4th (ring). Both sexes average a ratio of less than 1, i.e., the index finger tends to be shorter than the ring finger for both sexes. Greater in-utero testosterone exposure during a critical phase of pregnancy produces sexual differentiation and, averaged across the population, a lesser ratio (greater difference between index and ring). The average ratio difference is very small, about .02 - again, that's the difference in the ratio, not length, with men averaging the lower ratio, or relatively SHORTER index finger.

On flushing: the term is used to describe not flushing OUT, but flushing OF. Thus the uterus is flushed WITH testosterone or WITH estrogen. T flushing results (on average) in a lower digit ratio. Estrogen flushing, a greater ratio.

Hopefully this helps. It's confusing.

Lea

[kristinacd55]

I'm youngest, older brother and sister. Always thought my mother wanted a girl, but I asked her (she passed away in 06) and she said that wasn't true. Guess I imagined it :)

[Pamela Kay]

I am the first born boy with one younger brother. My mom wanted me to be a girl and Pamela Kay is the name she had picked for a daughter. She called me PJ while growing up which was P for Pam and J for my male name.

[Robin Lee]

Two older sisters one 6 years older and the middle sister 5 years older. I was the only boy. funny thing my oldest sister is the tomboy and loved playing boy sports. Me, I rather play with dolls and go shopping!

Best Wishes
Robin Lee

[Marissa333]

Oldest sibling - sister born 6 years before me
2nd sibling- Older Brother born 5 years before me
Then Gorgeous me
3rd sibling - sister born 7 years after me

[Justwanttobeloved]

I am the only male sibling with two younger sisters. I did have an older brother who would have been a year older then me but he died within days of his birth. I must say it kind of sucks being the only male because my father really looks to me to pass on his family name and heritage and i just want to be a girl. It is going to suck to come out to him, my sisters are really female. Sorry if i was not helpful
Love
Jerri

[Jynx]

No wonder...I love woman stuff but I'm a guy, I'm the 2nd son and have an older brother 4 years away. Sometimes, I really wish the society revise the definition of sex and gender. Sex refers to your genital differential and gender is optional whether you prefer the role of woman or man.

[Eryn]

First, last, and only.

[christina s]

Second genetically . Youngest of four if you include my step brother and sister .

[Lorileah]

First.... two brothers after. One gay. I think the study has a lot of holes in it

[grace52]

2nd son one older sister and one older and 2 younger brothers, was real close to sister,now deceased, who was oldest yeah middle kid

[OKPink]

I am in the middle of three.... Both are sisters

[vetobob9]

The second boy after 6 girls and one boy. And the one who came after me was also a boy.

[Dixie]

I too am the oldest with a younger brother and an even younger sister.

[Melissa Rose]

I'm the oldest with a sister one year younger.

Humans and our environments are too complex to be defined or described by a simple cause and effect or correlation.

[Josephine]

I was the fourth son. Three older brothers, 2 older sisters, and one younger sister.

[DanaR]

I have an older sister.

[Melissa.Lynn88]

I'm the only child in my family.

[HannahF6]

I grew up a middle child, 2nd of three with an older brother and a younger sister. At some stage I was a twin, but my twin (male or female I've never been told) died at birth.

Hannah

[Vicky_Scot]

First and only son with two sisiters.

[crotchhiboots]

I am the middle son. I have an older sister by one year and a younger sister 2 years.

[kimdl93]

I have an older sister, followed in order by five brothers. Based on this research, which I also saw in a 60 Minutes segment a couple years ago, my TG behavior was pretty nearly pre-ordained. Actually, I found this to be something of a relief. It certainly explains why I too exhibited these behaviors in my earliest years (maybe 3 or 4). Like you I had a similar education in how to hide this part of myself.

[Tina B.]

Third out of four kids, Sister (she was the protector of all her siblings), brother (a bit of a bully, loved scaring me every chance he got) Me, then a younger brother much later in life. Mom always wanted to have every other child be of the opposite sex, but I messed that up, I would have been named Karen, if I hadn't messed up the birth order. since I messed it up, no expectations on the fourth child.
Tina B.

[Trish]

I was the first born, with a brother six years younger than me.

[jillleanne]

I'm the second son of two sons and two daughters( according to the doctors) Ha! Fooled them didn't I?

[Vicky Peters]

First born of 3 (all males).

[gabimartini]

It's interesting to see how people come up with theories to try to explain the "unexplainable". Once, I read something saying the entire opposite, that firstborns (and lefties at that) were more prone to develop TG issues. Go figure!!!

BTW, I'm a firstborn of 3 boys.

[catriona36]

i only have an older brother. i was a premmie and dressed in dolls clothes fora verry short time.

[Veronica27]

I'm the youngest in a boy, girl, boy family, 4 and 3 years younger than my siblings. As this was back in the depression years when times were tough, I always felt like I was the oops of the family, but a welcomed one none-the-less.

Polls like this are interesting, but you have to bear in mind that every family has a first born, and every family with a male child has a first born son. As family size increases, the population of each slot diminishes at an accelerating rate. It stands to reason that by pure numbers, there would be more first born in any such poll on any issue. The study being referenced referred to multiple boy families, which would eliminate many of the replies here. This is also the first reference I have seen to such a study that says that the last born are more prone to crossdressing.

Veronica

[ilovepanties]

I am the second son. I have an older brother and a younger brother.

[Stephanie47]

Second born son. Brother is 14 months older. I was suppose to be a girl. Fooled them or dad's sperm fooled them. Younger sister by 12 years. By then I was dabbling in mom's slips.

[Hannah_88]

First born here. One of each type of sibling.

[Devorah]

middle of three boys - but left handed. :) The wiki article says it only corresponds in right handed males.

[EllieOPKS]

I am 3rd of 4 with an older sister and older brother and one younger. My mom told me when I was a kid that I would make a beautiful girl. I am trying to not disappoint but this is hard :) .

[KellyJameson]

First born but have Klinefelter syndrome but strangely I have always had perfect health except for hormonal imbalance that I take oral testosterone for. My brother who is younger was much more seriously affected, perhaps because he has a different father. Zero body hair, no testes and 62 inches tall where I am 72 inches tall but with little body hair, he also must take testosterone but has the traditional xy chromosome.

Even though the transgendered/ intersexed have always existed I wonder sometimes if the environment has been poisoned by the products of war and industry and it is affecting fetal development. Certainly there is a link between certain plastics outgassing and estrogen and the male fetus seems to be more sensitive to chemical changes affecting the mother.

My brother and I are fortunate because in general we are very happy people and have never experienced the self destructive behavior that often accompanies being so different from everyone else along with it's social isolation, instead we learned how to enjoy our own company.

We are both left handed, naturally empathetic, non aggressive but not passsive, enjoy abstract thought, enjoy people but we do not use them for narcissistic supply because we met our own emotional needs without exploiting others.

I do not know why I'm this way but I'm glad I'm not like the majority of the world with all it's violence. I consider myself CD/TG but he does not and has no desire to express himself in a feminine persona and does not understand but accepts it.

It seems there are many paths to CD/TG development in a person and just as many expressions of it.

[mypantyhoselegs]

Only child. There doesn't seem to be may of us on here.

[5150 Girl]

My fem name "Wynonna" is the Native American word for first born daughter

[Dana7]

I think that birth order must be a factor; I guess I am one of that small percentage of men that really enjoys feeling feminine from head to toe. In that regard, I am a second child and when I was in my mother's womb, my parents were both hoping for a girl, since they had already had a boy. I often wonder whether their hoping that implanted something into my DNA or something.

I have always thought of my self as more feminine than masculine. When I took a career interest inventory as part of my college education when getting ready to graduate, my scores came back that I would best fit the profile of an attorney. But not just any attorney, specifically a female attorney!

This condition has been with me throughout my life and I have often wondered whether my parent's strong desire for a girl as their second child has influenced my gender characteristics.

[Eryn]

Only child. There doesn't seem to be may of us on here.

Well, that isn't surprising since single-child families are rare now and were considerably rarer in preceding decades. One might also wonder if there is a relationship between being a singleton and at what point in life we began dressing.

[Noemi]

I am the second male and fit into the scenario you described. Mom was planning for a girl, my name was to be Michelle. My older brother is super masculine too, so I had to fake it and learned from the best.

[AudreyA]

Second born with three sisters.