ARe some of us hypocritical?

[Tara D. Rose]

I was responding to Melody Moore and before I could post my response, the thread was suddenly closed,


I consider myself to be a very open minded and non-judgemental person who respects everyone usually,
and I have to say that I have also seen many transphobic crossdressers interfering, pushing their own
agendas or ideologies, causing confusion and interfering with those who are transsexual, trying to talk
them out of transition, yadda, yadda, yadda... it's a two way street. And sometime I just wish the CDers
would butt right out of issues posted here on the transsexual forum, because it is not the crossdressers
these people are seeking advice from - especially given the fact that a crossdresser usually has no clue
about what being a transsexual is even about.

Even though Kate is harsh in the her delivery and yes she does forget where she came from, but she also has
experience as post op trans-woman and does contribute a lot here on this forum. I also wish she would learn to
be more tolerant and respectful of others. But I also see a number of crossdressers here who need to do the same.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Well Melody, I agree with you on some of your words in this post. And some I do not. Yes there are some cd's that may push their own opinions of the who, what, where, why, and when's on the TS side of things, I'm talking of only crossdressers that have no intent of transitioning. I know I'm not one of those. I agree that Kate has a valid point being one that has transitioned, and thus, making her be one that has walked the mile in those TS shoes, and thus qualifying her to give legitimate, experienced lived through it advice. I know you and I agree there, or I think we should. She is one that has been through the trials of transitioning. She has a good point on actually living it, and so she would be a great source for advice on those that desire to transition to post op TS. I do applaude her for living her life the way she chooses and with no regrets I think? I'm sure you and I agree with what I've said so far here.
But, but, but,,,,, my little post in response to Tessa -Ann, was of the seemingly, no, absolute hypicritical words of Katesback


"Originally Posted by Katesback
PS I would be grossed out as well if my MAN had shaved legs, long finger nails, and painted toenails. Sorry but thats not stuff men do!"


This sounds like something a GG, would say but not surprisingly. I would totally understand that, And I would understand that "IF" Tara walked into the local supermarket and asked 90 GG's to dinner. Kate's quoted words above would be what I "probably" would hear from possibly all GG's I would ask. And you know, I wouldn't be surprised by all turn downs, because they are GG's,,,, possibly, yes possibly, none have ever seen a cd in real life ever. It's not their fault either. But, I'm sure Katesback was once a CD sometime in her life. I'm sure panties covered her penis long before the operation, thus making her a cd for a time. And obviously she progressed to TS. I applaude her for that. All I was saying was agreeing with the poster above me talking of those that were once CD and are now TS, lay the smack down of criticism and act somewhat repulsed by a crossdresser. Now that is hypocritical.

I wasn't the first to point that out, the proof is above, but yet “you choose me “to criticize for merely agreeing with another poster that pointed out the truth. (I rest my case ReeneD).

I worked with a married GG, she and her husband were swingers, she told me of her weekend sexual escapades, she said the two women got together first while their husbands watched. I asked ,did the husbands get with each other? She cringed in absolute disgust and said hell no, that's SICK. I feel, that was hypocritical.
I was at a club and was sitting with a friend lesbian couple, and across the room was a guy couple, and the two lesbians cringed and shook their heads like they were about to vomit, and said now that is just sickening. Again, I thought their words were hypocritical.
But to me when a TS cringes,,,,,, or “even says” that a man that dresses in women’s clothes and paint his fingernails like a woman is a turn off ……OR, that there’s something wrong with him or is somewhat repulsive,,,,,,that is hypocritical.

Is it like a race? Where we start out as just panty wearers, then bras, then full nine yards into cd, then go to post op TS, then once they are there on the other side of that spectrum the post op TS’s turn around and say to cd’s ooohhh you cd’s are sick? Or aliken to no real man would paint his toenails and fingernails, etc.

Fire trucks are red, the sky is blue, right is right and wrong is wrong, water is wet, the earth is round, bones do break, and steel is heavy,
But I respect you tremendously. I will not do internet bullying. Talk to me, agree or disagree.

Love and Respect and peace be with you all…………..Tara

[grace52]

can you say karma, As words of person in recent memory CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG!!!! really, If you want respect you must first give it. We all have things that we are not into, but if it's legal and not hurting anyone lets take a couple of seconds before we pass judgement. I'am not you and your not me. But let's dwell on the good. GRACE

[Inna]

What do you prefer MAAM, paper or plastic?????

I must say that seeking reality on a crossdressing/transsexual forum is like fishing for tuna in your back yard pond, good luck. Just the same time spent fishing there, without catching anything, may indeed be very joyful and fun, especially if with friends and occasional drink of choice..............or not :)
Fact is, reality bites hard, perspectives from onlooking society aren't pleasant, to those who do not resemble in 100% their corrected gender, and lets be honest, without 100's of thousands of moola for most of us that is the fact. So what do one do??? One starts to live fantasy out of necessity to survive not mere fancy!!!!

Blunt honesty will hurt, and we have been through quite a load of hurt all along our life spans, so we cuddle each other the best we can, some are feisty, some are nice, some require beer, some sugar and spice!

All in all, truth is paramount but to get there we must press on knee deep in $h!!t and that is life ;)

[Marleena]

Very good post Tara!

Truth is I have totally avoided the other forums that don't relate to me, MTF. I am very open to any lifestyle and non judgemental.

That said, anybody that is a member of these forums has no right to bash other member's lifestyle choices. These are all considered alternate lifestyles outside the "so called norm".

Everyone here should be more open minded than the original poster you referred to.

Just my thoughts.

[Sara Jessica]

It doesn't seem fair that you have resuscitated these comments in a different section. It's like going into another room to whine about what someone did or said elsewhere. I hope those who you quote come over here to provide their two-cents.


Originally Posted by Katesback - "PS I would be grossed out as well if my MAN had shaved legs, long finger nails, and painted toenails. Sorry but thats not stuff men do!"

What is so hypocritical about this statement? Katie is a woman and she wouldn't dig the CDing thing so much out of her man. Sounds like pretty much many, if not most women out there.


This sounds like something a GG, would say but not surprisingly. I would totally understand that, And I would understand that "IF" Tara walked into the local supermarket and asked 90 GG's to dinner. Kate's quoted words above would be what I "probably" would hear from possibly all GG's I would ask. And you know, I wouldn't be surprised by all turn downs, because they are GG's,,,, possibly, yes possibly, none have ever seen a cd in real life ever. It's not their fault either.

Then you go on to essentially prove that the Katie's statement is not so hypocritical.


But, I'm sure Katesback was once a CD sometime in her life...

Two things here. First of all, CD is something you do. TS / woman is something you are. Just because one has fully transitioned doesn't mean she has gone through some sort of "stages" thing, beginning with CD, then TS, then woman. That is just silly.

And just because Katie, or anyone for that matter, is part of our community, it doesn't mean an individual is guaranteed 100% to accept something such as CDing in their own world. I believe Katie has empathy for those who ID as CD, as in she gets likely gets it, but I also acknowledge that her statement makes sense from the perspective of any woman, transitioned or not. I know women who are totally cool with the TG thing, yet if you suggested what if their SO were TG and all bets are off. Hey it's cool, just not in my own backyard. Such is life.

[Aprilrain]

you guys are being awfully nice to Kate. lets face it experience or not her words are overly harsh often down right nasty and therefore any lesson or advice is lost in the delivery. In my opinion she post such inflammatory remarks for her own entertainment. I cant even say I blame her! Things can get dull around here sometimes and as Inna pointed out the, the person looking for actual support in forums such as this may be disappointed. It sure is fun to read some of the dumb ass things people post though! I rarely see CDs offering advice to TS so I'm not even sure where that whole thing came from.

OH and just incase you guys were wondering in my opinion you are more likely to find a GG who will support you and your CDing than a TS. Perhaps its simply a numbers thing, there are a whole lot more GGs out there than there are TS woman. If I had to venture a guess as to why this is I would say that there are just as many woman (GG and TS) who are interested in the "stereotypical man" as there are men who are interested in the "stereotypical woman". I think people are like this wether they care to admit it or not.

and to answer the title question: yes if your human at some point you will probably be a hypocrite!

As far as TS once being CDs, probably not true. A TS early in her transition may not look much different than a CD but a TS has an internal gender identity that is opposite his or hers birth sex whereas a CD does not. I do think its possible for a "CD" to be so far down the rabbit hole as to be very confused on this issue and perhaps close enough to the CD/TS "line" as to cross it at some point. It could be easily argued that they were always TS they just weren't dysphoric enough yet. I can say for my self that though I was compelled to CD i never really liked it. It was a painful reminder of what I was not but longed to be, a girl. Now I know most TS will say "but you were a girl" and this is probably true however I guess im just very pragmatic and black and white because to me I saw a male body and that seemed like proof enough that I was just crazy for wanting to be a girl!

[Karren H]

"We" get along just as well as the general public at large gets along... Being an idiot or A-hole or having addendas is independent of what clothes you like to wear... Mater of fact just liking to wear the same clothes is not a basis for a community let alone a friendship! Imho. If it was then all women would be friendly with each other?? Yeah right. That's why I don't take anything said here to heart or personally or get offended and figure at best I can learn something useful and at least its cheap entertainment. Lol.

[Johnnifer]

I have yet to see any crossdressers acting transphobic here but I am new to this forum and have avoided the TS only forums out of a lack of interest.

However on my many many years online seeking a place to fit in I have met many Transsexuals who were prejudiced against crossdressers and even those who were prejudice against other transsexuals who do not meet their standards. To add to the mix each branch of the GLBT seems to hate the other, at least online.

Here are just some of the moods I have run across over the years.

Post op transsexuals who look down on pre-ops and non ops.

passing transsexuals who look down upon the unpassing.

Chatrooms where you get greeted upon entering by the oh so hostile labling of "tranny or chaser?" Asked as if their were no options other than being trans or admiring them and as if those are separate.

Many many many gender support chats which have no idea how to identify with or help crossdressers.

Transsexuals who hate autogynephiles and those with autogynephile fetishes, some who see transsexuals who also have autogynephile fetishes as not real transsexuals.

One TS girl who chased me off a chat when I showed up depressed calling my identity and interests too gay and "lavender" (which I assume was her pet insult for gay).

this isn't even counting all the times I seen wars between other branches of the GLBT such as lesbiens hating TG's and saying they are not real women, TG's and gays saying each gives the other a bad name. gays saying bisexuals are just lying to themselves or hiding, lesbiens accusing bi's of spreading disease, etc.

For people who are all about acceptance and equality we sure have a tough time of showing it to others.

Due to both being kicked around and being alone online for a few years I am a bit too used to fighting for myself, being a bit too defensive at times, and throwing my presence around to avoid being drown out. I hope I have not seemed rude. Just with the sea of hostility and feeling alone it feels as if I am drowing alone in a vast lonely sea of pressured femininity at times.

[Pythos]

I have noticed this phenomena as well. I really find a lot of irony in the notion that CDs should stay out of the TS sections, while at the same time I see (and don't mind seeing ) TSs in the CD section. There are some things that are discussed (well actually it is most things) that are on a human level, and all groups can and should participate.

That is one reason I really don't like the separate sections.

To the one that said the very cynical thing about finding reality in such a forum, I just have to ask, Is your life a fantasy then? I know my life is very real. My drive for self expression is as real as my drive to fly, love, and have friends.

The individual that spurred this thread I have seen say some VERY mean, and extremely hypocritical statements. Actually there are a couple here that just piss me all off with their downright sexists statements that illustrates that they have forgotten where they came from. ANY transgendered that says when another person does something not in conjunction with their assigned gender that that person is sick, or "gross", really should reexamine those words for that person at one time was in that group and had such insults slung at them.

Then again, the subject of this thread is pictured standing among a line of motorcycles, which is really cool, I just wonder how she feels about the fantail of some of these machines being called the "bitch bench" where you put your "bitch" to take her home and have your way with her. I don't think there is any respect for women at all in that kind of notion.

When it comes to "agendas" I must ask...What's the problem? Why is somebody having an Agenda a bad thing? I have an agenda and that essentially is to help people get to know one another better. To show that Goths ARE NOT evil, and devil worshipers, and that for the most part are much like everyone else, just with a different view on life. I have the agenda to promote certain styles that I find appealing. That is part of what a discussion group is all about. I know for some reason having an Agenda has been twisted into some bad thing by some of the media pundits out there, but honestly it is not.

I do think many here, including my self at times, don't really read what they put, and don't realize how hurtful some of those things are.

[Aprilrain]

Mater of fact just liking to wear the same clothes is not a basis for a community let alone a friendship! Imho. If it was then all women would be friendly with each other??
at least its cheap entertainment

If that were true it would stand to reason that MEN would get along swimmingly since their clothing is much more homogenous than woman's clothing. Anyway as a rule I would say woman are friendlier with each other than men are. I mean of course there is always that ONE bitch that NO ONE likes but someone must like her? her BF maybe? He probably doesn't like her either she's just a convenient lay. Her kids? Her parents perhaps? No they are just dependent on her. OH well thank god I'm not her........ how come my phone never rings??????

cheap entertainment for sure! Amen sister!

[Karren H]

I think women "act" friendly to each other but underneath they are as bad or worse than men. Don't you watch the "Real housewives"? Lol.

[DonniDarkness]

Actually there are a couple here that just piss me all off with their downright sexists statements that illustrates that they have forgotten where they came from. ANY transgendered that says when another person does something not in conjunction with their assigned gender that that person is sick, or "gross", really should reexamine those words

+1 PYTHOS


I would be grossed out as well if my MAN.....

I think that the big misunderstanding in this whole discussion is that, Most of us who are CD's, live their lives as men. I am a MAN. You can downplay it all you want based on the fact that i am a crossdresser but the truth in the reality is that 90% of my life is living breathing proof that i am a MAN first and foremost. Crossdressing is a expression of my femininity as a MALE.

I own a interior remodeling company, i build custom furniture and rebuild cars and motorcycles, most days i am the scruffy faced, tall, tattooed rocker type that you may find under the hood of a car or standing over a table saw. Also my wife works full time and i am the caretaker of our household and all of the parenting responsibilities that come along with raising two children with my wife. Manly stuff right....

However if you were to know that i was a crossdresser, that would change your opinion of me as being ALL MAN?.....Hardly. I am all of the things that that my wife loves and is attracted to, but i am also TG. A "creepy crossdresser" to those who dont approve and are too judgmental to see past the fact that we as Crossdressing Men are attractive too.

The Statements about crossdressers from some of our members here do upset me, but not as much as the sexist comments that some of you throw out there without any care given to the fact that that not all men are stereotypical pigs. Some of us are nurturing fathers and rough and tumble dirt rockers at the same time.

Dont be so condescending to those who are different because you are different to us too.


-Donni-

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its a very thoughtful and fair op.. i think its common in trans land to be grossed out by others...we are all human...calling somebody a freak tho is not fair... if i was with a man and he wanted to start crossdressing, i'd consider my options..i'd support him totally , but question whether i want to be with him... seems reasonable to me....


nobody is looking down on anybody....you are looking up...and you are not well served to do that...
i can't help it if you envy me living a full female life...this does not make me better than anyone else...fwiw, it sucks in so many ways that only desperation and survival got me to go forward...
it is not something to aspire to..it is something you do to correct a huge problem..the benefits are real, but the costs are astronomical...

i've experienced personally where i've poured my heart out to people hoping to help only to find out the person is a fraud...this has happened 4 specific times..and it sucked each time...
so "would you go all the way" threads are hard to look at from my perspective, even tho they are reasonable from a cd only point of view...this is only true because i know what going all the way means..and the cd's don't...

I've also opened my heart to people and been viciously attacked by what i see as the most hypocritical and arrogant posters around...in fancy fonts no less...to me kate's bluntness is no different...it goes both ways..

its unfair for me to attack a person for their fantasy..but its also unfair to contact me privately, ask me all kinds of questions and because you are fantasizing about transition... its a no win and it colors the way i answer questions now...

i also agree that the "men are such pigs" threads are hard to take.....but i think its just another form of fantasy so its not big deal...

[Nigella]

This thread is now done. The original quote was taken from a thread that has been closed, by bringing the quote into this forum, you have in effect re-opened the thread. It ain't going to happen