Where have all the dresses gone.

[Angela2me]

I was out driving the other day. A beautiful spring day here. Lovely weather.
As I drove through the city, I noticed something sad. I hope it improves into summer. I think only about 1 in 15 GGs were wearing either a dress or skirt. All the others were in either pants or shorts.

Funny. Many of us CDers would love to go out in a nice dress or skirt and it seems all the GGs are going out in pants and shorts. Hmmmmmm

[Shari]

Oh no. Say it isn't so.
Do you mean to tell me this non dress epidemic has now spread to Australia too?
Oh, the humanity!

[Karren H]

I'm not complaining!! Over half the women at work wear skirts or dresses and the number has been growing every year. Its amazing but the younger women dress up more that the older ones! Even when I go downtown Pittsburgh I see a lot more dresses and skirts than a decade ago! :)

[Tasha McIntyre]

Hi Angela,

Up here in Brisbane it's quite the opposite. Great for getting ideas for myself, but it also has the side effect of dramatically increasing my desire to get into my own femme outfits.

Tash :)

[J'lyn GG]

Are you really going to start this again? :doh: What are they doing? Are they running errands amidst a hectic kid filled day? Are they working? And is that work manual labor or is it 'no labor'? When I'm out, I don't want to have to worry about my dress/skirt being blown up when I suddenly have to reach for a child or a grocery cart. I can't chase after my 2yo in high heels. BEFORE you pass judgement, think about what they may doing in their day. My husband thinks I look great in ANYTHING I wear. He does not judge me for not wearing skirts, b/c he understands how busy a woman's day can be and the benefits of dressing comfortably.

[Carol A]

You know my favoret trick when I want to doll up and go outI use Suday about the time church is letting out and women still dress in dresses to go to church.
Now I can go anywhere and blend in with the church women who do odds and ends after church:heehee:

[catriona36]

i would say sydney is a dress and skirt town unless you head to the western subs.
the outfits that bug me are dresses or skirts with ugg boots :|
mind you the skirts are getting shorter every time i drivein town lol not saying its a bad thing ;)

[TGMarla]

J'lynn, it's not a judgment or a criticism. It's merely a lament, that's all. It's nothing to get angry over.

[Stephanie47]

I think the observation can be applied also to guys. And, I do not mean guys in dresses or skirts. How many guys out and about wear a shirt with a collar, let alone a tie? And, do guys own slacks or dress pants? How about dress shoes? I think the extremely casual attire goes beyond running for a gallon of milk, gassing up the car, etc. Too many people do not take pride in their appearance. It's not just a casual look, but, also the entire package. Look like a slob, feel like a slob.

My wife and I went to a play recently. You'd think we had gone to a company picnic.

[Maria 60]

I remember when i was younger, women all women wore dresses and skirts. On Sundays i would go to church and every women had a dress or skirt on and the best part that would drive me crazy was that little slip showing. Women even in the office don't wear skirts anymore. My wife doe's not wear skirts or dresses unless it's a special event and in the summer i would tell her look at all these beautiful summer dresses, if i was able to i would wear one every day.

[Alice Torn]

These are the times which try men's souls! Hey, that is a great idea! Go out dressed up, Sunday morns, and blend in easier! Thanks ladies!

[Eryn]

Well, having experienced it from both sides I can't really blame GGs for eschewing skirts at times. Pants are just a lot more convenient and easier to wear then skirts and dresses.

As CDers, we love the novelty of skirts and dresses. It's a marvelously liberating experience to dress in clothes that are so different that those we're normally forced to wear. We learn that there are special techniques required to wear these clothes. Brushing one's skirt forward when sitting, keeping one's knees together, and dozens of other tricks are entertaining for us to learn but annoyances for GGs who just want to get on with whatever they are doing. I don't blame them for utilizing their right to wear whatever they desire in order to be as comfortable as possible.

For special occasions and situations, women are willing to put up with a bit of annoyance and discomfort, just as men are willing to put on suits and ties that are less comfortable than jeans and T-shirts.

Just as our society has become more informal in male dress it has also become informal in female dress. Look at old photographs. 60 years ago men would not consider going out in public without wearing a proper suit with tie and hat. Women had similar strictures on their dress. Both genders wear considerably more comfortable clothing these days and I'm not willing to go back!

[skirtsuit]

I don't work in an office, but things in SE Pennsyvania sound about as good as in the West, as our reliable friend Karen reports. I love day & career wear and it's easy to 'blend in' these days in center city in a nice skirt suit or dress. I've even seem young women wearing nude sheer hose!!!!!

Best,
SS

[Raychel]

Actually my wife has a part time job now, and very often she will get dressed up in a nice dress or suit, with pantyhose and the whole kit. It is very nice to see for a change.

[Jilmac]

Here in this frozen wasteland called Wisconsin we have two seasons, winter and August. In some places the snow doesn't melt until mid May so the GGs are in pants until the asphalt starts to melt. If they wore dresses and skirts their legs would turn blue from frostbite. Anyway, it seems that way.

It's nice to look at GGs in dresses and skirts but alas, there are very few places where you can see them. Perhaps some day the tide will turn and women will be dressed in drab and we'll get all the pretty clothes for ourselves.

[CallieH]

Nothing quite like the feeling of wearing a dress!

[Valerie1973]

Chicks don't wear dresses anymore! Well, thats what I asked my wife today and she said, "Not really" We are celebrating out 10 wedding anniversary this weekend and I wanted to buy her a nice dress for the occasion. She never wears dresses, in fact I own more than her, lol. But she wont wear any of mine, darn it. I never found anything nice in the stores today. All the nice stuff is online. Poo :( .

[Jamie-Lynn]

Well it is november so fall and winter fashions have taken over. I still like dresses but I only own 2. I just can never seem to find a dress that i like that fits.

[Marissa333]

Are you really going to start this again? :doh: What are they doing? Are they running errands amidst a hectic kid filled day? Are they working? And is that work manual labor or is it 'no labor'? When I'm out, I don't want to have to worry about my dress/skirt being blown up when I suddenly have to reach for a child or a grocery cart. I can't chase after my 2yo in high heels. BEFORE you pass judgement, think about what they may doing in their day. My husband thinks I look great in ANYTHING I wear. He does not judge me for not wearing skirts, b/c he understands how busy a woman's day can be and the benefits of dressing comfortably.

Calm down, it was an innocent observation, and not "judgment" in any way. She did not form an opinion of who they were as human beings, just a comment on what they were wearing.

[April_Ligeia]

I have a couple of dresses that fit okay, but none of them are terribly flattering. A good dress is hard to find.

[Dana7]

Are you really going to start this again? :doh: What are they doing? Are they running errands amidst a hectic kid filled day? Are they working? And is that work manual labor or is it 'no labor'? When I'm out, I don't want to have to worry about my dress/skirt being blown up when I suddenly have to reach for a child or a grocery cart. I can't chase after my 2yo in high heels. BEFORE you pass judgement, think about what they may doing in their day. My husband thinks I look great in ANYTHING I wear. He does not judge me for not wearing skirts, b/c he understands how busy a woman's day can be and the benefits of dressing comfortably.

Actually, my SO used to wear pants almost exclusively to work; she works in an office setting where she either sits at a computer or instructs staff. But recently, we found some really pretty outfits for her to wear and now she wears almost exclusively skirts and dresses to work. It was a result of a very interesting turn of events that I described in an earlier post--you can read my post on that topic here:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162705-I-ve-Created-A-Monster&highlight=

J'lynn, I really don't agree with your position that the activities most GG's do all day requires them to wear pants instead of dresses and skirts. There was a time not long ago--and I am old enough to remember it--when women wore MOSTLY dresses and skirts. Back then it was rare for a woman to wear pants, even when out taking care of kids. There was no great turmoil of women's dresses and skirts flying up everywhere. It was just what women wore back then. And it was that way for hundreds and thousands of years before that. Just take a look at films that depict the early sixties, the fifties, and the years before--the women were all wearing skirts and dresses. Only in the last fifty years have women started wearing pants as a regular form of attire. And they did so as a result of a cultural revolution.

Many things changed with that cultural revolution, and the roles of men and women have changed dramatically as well. But in my opinion, it was nicer when women dressed more feminine. Dresses show off the attractiveness of the female figure more than pants. Skirts show off a woman's curves in a way that is flattering to her. Skirts and dresses are cooler than pants and they are more comfortable to wear. I know this now because I have worn both.

In my opinion, if a woman is going to get defensive because men like to see women in dresses and skirts more, then I think that she is just insecure in her femininity. I believe if more women expressed their femininity, that men would show their appreciation for that femininity and as a result women would be happier. But that's just my opinion.

It has certainly happened that way in my own relationship with my SO. She now wears dresses and skirts frequently, and she receives my unreserved adulation for cultivating her femininity in our relationship. We are both much happier now that she wears more dresses and skirts, and she even says so now that she loves to wear them.

My SO tells me that she has gotten questioned by the women in her office; "why are you wearing so many dresses and skirts now?" And she tells me that she answers them, "because I like to dress feminine!" She says that now several other women in her office (her office is staffed almost exclusively with women) have taken to wearing more dresses and skirts.

We've started a trend!

:battingeyelashes:

[jacky83]

At "Diva Las Vegas" I noticed that the most noticeable difference between the TGs & GGs is the TGs were wearing skirts or dresses and the GGs were wearing slacks or capris.

[J'lyn GG]

Calm down, it was an innocent observation, and not "judgment" in any way. She did not form an opinion of who they were as human beings, just a comment on what they were wearing.

You may be right, I may have been a little touchy at that moment when I read it. But you also have to agree, that GG's do get a lot of flack for what we do and do not wear on this forum. And it gets irritiating to have to keep revisiting the same old subject again and again.

[kimdl93]

My wife is a professional and I can tell you that she wears suit and skirt on a pretty regular basis. She generally reserves her dresses for formal occassions and those rare clubbing occassions. My step daughter is very much into dresses as well.

Both represent a very small and selective sample, but suggest to me that dresses still have their place, but are not mandatory anymore!

[Cheryl T]

Wish I could find some nice dresses. Seems all the retail stores carry are those for the younger set and nothing for us women. I can barely find anything but gowns and cocktail dresses by me. I wish some of the stores would carry a few nice dresses, I'm tired of skirts and blouses being the only thing in my closet.

[kimdl93]

Cheryl, I've just bought three new dresses on sale!!! One a Dillards and two at Avenue. I prefer dresses with 1/2 to 3/4 sleeves and a wrap or faux wrap style to give me a bit of a waist. One is a medium blue, one a medium green and the third is kinda light /olive green. I love wearing them, but honestly, I feel a bit overdressed so will probably reserve for special occassions. (Like when my wife finally gives in and takes me out to dinner)

[LeaP]

A quick count: My office building opens into a busy downtown mall. At noon today, I walked through and counted exactly 11 dresses or skirts. A quick estimation based on a couple of sample counts has the total number of people I passed as approximately 400, about 2/3rds of which were female ... 4%.

Lea

[Aprilrain]

in my opinion, it was nicer when women dressed more feminine. Dresses show off the attractiveness of the female figure more than pants. Skirts show off a woman's curves in a way that is flattering to her. Skirts and dresses are cooler than pants and they are more comfortable to wear.

The first 2 sentences are spoken like a true gentleman! Perhaps this is why women got away from wearing clothes that caused men to tune out what she was saying because the man was to busy checking out her tits and ass!

I agree with the last sentence, skirts and certain dresses are more comfortable than pants. I avoid pants and shorts like the plague in the summer but its pretty much all pants in the winter. Its also true that most childcare/housekeeping chores are not hard to do while wear a skirt or dress however they are just as easily done in pants and pants leave the wearer with the flexibility to do many things that would be difficult, awkward or unbecoming in a skirt or dress.

[Dana7]

Wish I could find some nice dresses. Seems all the retail stores carry are those for the younger set and nothing for us women. I can barely find anything but gowns and cocktail dresses by me. I wish some of the stores would carry a few nice dresses, I'm tired of skirts and blouses being the only thing in my closet.

Cheryl,

Try the Dress Barn. That is a clothing store devoted to women's dresses, and they have all styles and types. I have also found some really nice dresses at the thrift stores. But it is wise to know your measurements before you go so you can measure the dresses right off the rack and determine whether they will be a good fit in case there is a problem using the dressing room.

I have found lots of good dress styles at Penneys also. MY SO absolutely LOVES shopping at Penneys. Be sure to get there during their "Doorbuster" sales. We've found many lovely outfits for her while shopping there and I have also seen quite a few outfits that would look great on me. You can always review their online catalog, as well as listings by other department stores online. A clever strategy that my SO uses is to go to the store and see if it fits, then if it is cheaper online (which sometimes is true) then she orders online. You might try that as well. If you prefer to remain anonymous with your purchases you can measure the dress off the rack and then if it works, order it online and have it delivered to your door. Anyone who sees the package won't even know what's in it.

I hope that helps.

[Eryn]

I think that there is a regional variation as well. Here in SoCal women can comfortably wear dresses through most of the year so we tend to see more dresses when strolling the mall than you would in, say, Michigan.

I disagree with skirts being more comfortable than jeans. When wearing jeans you can sit however you want, never catch your hem with your heel while standing, can walk with whatever stride you wish, and have no worries about gusts of wind. Jeans are just a more convenient garment.

That being said, I still love to wear skirts and dresses when I can. My current favorite look is a short sweaterdress worn with leggings. It's cute, a little sexy, and goes well with my tall stature. Apparently many GGs agree with me as I see quite a few similarly attired. :)

Eryn

[JohnH]

...just as men are willing to put on suits and ties that are less comfortable than jeans and T-shirts.


I hate the manditory coat and tie look that men have to wear to dress up! If only there were alternatives for men's formal wear!

Johanna

[Stephenie S]

I was out driving the other day. A beautiful spring day here. Lovely weather.
As I drove through the city, I noticed something sad. I hope it improves into summer. I think only about 1 in 15 GGs were wearing either a dress or skirt. All the others were in either pants or shorts.

Funny. Many of us CDers would love to go out in a nice dress or skirt and it seems all the GGs are going out in pants and shorts. Hmmmmmm

i am SO tired of this old complaint! If you had to wear a dress every day with all that goes with it you might change your silly mind.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s. Girls wore dresses to school every day. That meant garter belts or girdles, longline bras, dress shields (we didn't have anti-persperants), full fashioned stockings (look it up if you don't know what that means), and flats or heels. We could wear shorts and pants after school.

It's plain not true that women and girls didn't wear pants. We wore pants quite often. But not to church. And not to school. In my house girls did NOT wear jeans (dungarees, my mom called them), but many of my friends did wear jeans. I didn't until I went off to college in 1961.

Now a days I am eternally greatful to Goddess that those days are gone for good. I love skirts, but am happy to wear them when I want, not when some arbitrary social rule (or some MAN) tells me I must.

But let's get over this myth about women not wearing pants. It's just that. A myth. Women wore pants back in the dark ages of the 50s and 60s. A LOT. I was there. I remember. If your view of that era is colored by your watching old television shows, this is understandable. But listen to one who was there. Pick up an old Sears Robuck catalog. You will see lots of pants for sale.

S

[Dana7]

Excerpted from the Wikipedia article: "Women wearing pants"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_pants

"In the Western world, women have historically worn dresses and skirt-like garments while men have worn trousers...and in the 1970s, trousers became especially fashionable for women...trousers for women in western countries did not become fashion items until the later 20th century...In the 1960s, André Courrèges introduced long trousers for women as a fashion item, leading to the era of the pantsuit and designer jeans and the gradual eroding of the prohibitions against girls and women wearing trousers in schools, the workplace, and fine restaurants."

Wearing pants prior to the 1960's was the exception, not the rule. There is a picture posted in the local supermarket where I shop and it shows the interior of the market when it first opened. In this black-and-white picture of yesteryear, virtually all the women are wearing skirts and dresses. You could probably count the number of women in slacks and trousers on one hand. It really struck me when I first saw that picture. Things must have really been different back then.

I agree with you Stephanie that perhaps back then it was more inconvenient to wear dresses and skirts, with the associated garter belts, girdles, longline bras, dress shields and full fashioned stockings, but those are no longer necessary to wear skirts and dresses. Pantyhose has simplified underdressing considerably, although I will agree that they can be a pain to wear. Now it is much easier to slip into a dress or skirt than it used to be. And heels are certainly not mandatory when wearing a dress. There are lots of casual dress and skirt styles that are very attractive and don't require heels.

I never said that women never wore pants. But they were not worn nearly as much as dresses and skirts back then. I know because I saw it, and there are plenty of photographs that confirm it. Even Wikipedia agrees.

It's too bad that women have stopped wearing skirts and dresses so much as they used to. They were an attractive part of the social scene. And just because a woman wears a dress does not mean that a man will be oogling her chest and only looking at her as a sex object.

It seems to me that among the reasons women wear pants these days is as much about asserting equality with men as anything else. It seems to be more of a social-political statement than a fashion statement. But there is strength in femininity, if women would accept it.

See:
http://theartofbeingfeminine.blogspot.com/2008/08/be-more-more-feminine-why-men-love.html

http://frankysj.tripod.com/fwlsn18.html

http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/love/package.jsp?name=fte/curvywomen/curvywomen

"This old complaint" that men always want to see women in skirts and dresses more is not just a passing fad. It is is rooted in the way men are wired. Men are programmed to be visual creatures, that has been proven by numerous studies. And dresses and skirts, because they are feminine, are a lot more easy on the eyes to a man. They are more attractive because they display the curves of a woman better. They speak of an essence that is like a compelling fragrance to a man. Femininity is very attractive to a man and dresses and skirts are feminine.

I think that this is part of the reason some men crossdress. Some men strongly desire more femininity in their lives and because they are not receiving it from others they create it in themselves.

But the sad part of all of this is that with the advent of women's freedom to wear pants more instead of skirts and dresses, a similar freedom for men to wear skirts and dresses did not come about. I did find a couple of interesting articles in Wikipedia that do show men wearing skirts though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_skirts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fustanella


Those Fustanellas look kinda cute! :battingeyelashes:

[rebecca.cross2]

Excerpted from the Wikipedia article: "Women wearing pants"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_pants

"Wearing pants prior to the 1960's was the exception, not the rule. There is a picture posted in the local supermarket where I shop and it shows the interior of the market when it first opened. In this black-and-white picture of yesteryear, virtually all the women are wearing skirts and dresses. You could probably count the number of women in slacks and trousers on one hand. It really struck me when I first saw that picture. Things must have really been different back then."

"I think that this is part of the reason some men crossdress. Some men strongly desire more femininity in their lives and because they are not receiving it from others they create it in themselves."
:

YES, it was different back then. Women could not be employed for any position of authority, let alone decent pay. Women were treated as property, and not that long ago could not own property. They could not vote. If they were unmarried, it was frowned upon. Shall I go on.

Yeah, and back then, men wore suits and hats EVERY DAY. Wool suits at that. How about women of today lament how slobby guys look in their t-shirts and pants and ask them to wear suits all the time. No more sneakers--leather flat dress shoes only gentlemen

Yes, I crossdress. Yes, I like to wear dresses. I like dresses. We (crossdressers) have no right to judge.

Your other quote "I think this is why some men crossdress". My wife is femenine. She wears dresses often. She has long hair, wears makeup, and loves shopping for then most part. It has NOTHING to do with my crossdressing.

I (and I believe most crossdressers) dress to fill a need internally that enjoys the feeling of being dressed as a woman. For me, it feels normal to wear womens clothes. It is calming, and for the most part relaxing.

Nothing at all has to do with my mother, a lack of "feminine" qualities from my spouse, or the lack of a father figure.. Can't you just accept that it might be possible we were born this way? Most crossdressers start dressing (or at least have the urges) before they ever have a girlfriend, so wheres the "blame" now?

[Marissa333]

You may be right, I may have been a little touchy at that moment when I read it. But you also have to agree, that GG's do get a lot of flack for what we do and do not wear on this forum. And it gets irritiating to have to keep revisiting the same old subject again and again.

I do agree. Thank you for all of your contributions J'lyn!

[Risque_Christine]

Women's slacks can certainly be classic and sexy, in almost situation. However, as a taller CD, it is MUCH harder for me to find slacks that fit than dresses. First, length and fit (hips/thighs) are more of an obstacle than in a dress. The length issue can be solved by buying higher end slacks that are not pre-hemmed. This creates its own issue-- where can I go to get my slacks tailored in this town (they must be tailored to what shoe you think you might wear, so you have to wear your girl shoes, too) without it being all over time by nightfall? So, overall, it is easier for many CDs to wear skirts and dresses. As to availability of dresses, (1) comb clearance racks at Ross, Maxx and Marshalls (2) if you want really good dresses, go to Neiman Marcus last call (This will set your heart a-flutter to see what they have) or to a lesser extent SFA or Nordstrom's outlets, (3) patronize local thrift stores (my best sequined dress and ball gowns are from thrift stores) If you live in or around Houston, go to Dillards outlet at Greenpoint. It happens that this week, the Lord and Taylor outlets are selling off their entire dress inventory at 29.99. L&T used to be higher end, but they had some decent dresses from Adrienne Pappell and other mid level makers-- you could do well there.
As to the observation on Wikipedia that having women wear less "feminine" clothing causes men to go CD, I think that is probably wrong most of the time based on little more than what I have read on this and other sites. That being said, in my case, that is exactly what catalyzed Christine's appearance from nothing. That story is for another post when I have really had too much to drink.
Best, Christine

[Angela2me]

oh, my, this is getting a little out of hand. I made an observation, not a judgement of GGs.

I like the feminine look. Sorry, but I do. Not the sexy or provocative look. I accept that not all GGs like or want that look. This is just me expressing what I like.
My idea of the feminine look is long, soft flowing skirted clothing, soft colours, long natural hair and limited or no make up. (I am not big on cleavage, short skirts or tight fitting garments) I often look at young girls who seem to be very natural and comfortable looking girlish and wonder why many GGs move away from that as they get older. Yes, again, this is not a judgement, just my thoughts. I agree there are situations that are not suited to wearing skirted or flowing clothing. But if I was walking along the water front boulevard on a warm spring day, I would love to be wearing a long, light, flowing dress and sandals.

I kinda hope people can express their thoughts and observations here without starting wars. I would like to hear thoughts and experiences from GGs as I have not walked many steps in their shoes, so to speak.

Keep it pleasant please.
Angela

[biguy]

I have very sexy legs and the though of covering them with slacks is not an option

[Alice Torn]

Dana, Although there is some truth those who have disagreed wrote, overall, you are RIGHT ON! In American society, indeed, the standards of almost everything, have been LOWERED. I was in a hospital recently, and on the wall, were photos of many past years. In ALL OF THE PHOTOS, THE NURSES WORE DRESSES, up until the late 1970's or early 1980's. It was a more bright world, in THAT way, though society has always had dark, and bad aspects. I live in an area, where i seldom see ladies in dresses. Maybe once a week. I also agree. I dress, PARTLY, because i have never had a SO, or wife, and my dressing up, brings rare feminine looks into my lonely life.

[Dana7]

Dana, Although there is some truth those who have disagreed wrote, overall, you are RIGHT ON! In American society, indeed, the standards of almost everything, have been LOWERED. I was in a hospital recently, and on the wall, were photos of many past years. In ALL OF THE PHOTOS, THE NURSES WORE DRESSES, up until the late 1970's or early 1980's. It was a more bright world, in THAT way, though society has always had dark, and bad aspects. I live in an area, where i seldom see ladies in dresses. Maybe once a week. I also agree. I dress, PARTLY, because i have never had a SO, or wife, and my dressing up, brings rare feminine looks into my lonely life.

Thanks Louise, for your affirmation. I agree with you, it was a brighter world then.

:)

[sometimes_miss]

I think maybe you're just looking in the wrong places. I see plenty of women in dresses or skirts. Try fashion malls or perhaps in front of women's more glamorous clothing stores. After all, girls shopping at stores that sell jeans are more likely to like wearing jeans, and vice versa.
My favorite spot for lunch is a park near a bunch of office buildings; I get there early, buy lunch, bring a book and wear sunglasses. The amount of 'eye candy' there is incredible. I wonder if anyone ever notices that I never turn a page.

Edit: Whoops, sorry, Angela, I didn't notice you were in Australia. But I think it may apply there too. Younger female office workers are probably more likely to be found in more revealing attire, whether they're dressing to impress one particular guy, or simply because they like feeling that they look 'hot'.

[Dana7]

Your other quote "I think this is why some men crossdress".

Rebecca, you've misquoted me. I did not say "I think this is why some men crossdress".

I said, "I think that this is part of the reason some men crossdress."

There is a big difference between what you quoted and what I actually wrote. Please don't misconstrue what I said.

[ReineD]

I wear pants because they are easy, comfortable, and economical. The shoes or ankle boots I wear with pants are a great deal more comfortable than pumps and sandals, even though they still are 3" heels. I can throw my pants (mostly skinny black jeans or blue jeans) in the wash and not iron them. I can't do this with my dresses. For every day wear, pants make a lot more sense for me. Also, I don't work in an office, I don't meet with clients, and so I don't see the point of wearing dresses just to do my errands or work on the computer. Not having come from work, I'd really feel over dressed putting on a skirt suit or a dress just to go to Lowes or the grocery store. Do guys wear suits and ties on Saturdays when they're doing errands and stuff around the house? :)

I do not wear pants in order to compete with men or to make me feel more powerful. I wear them because I was a teenager in the 70s when everyone wore blue jeans to school, and I haven't stopped wearing them. That said, I love to dress when we do go out. I have several very pretty dresses, and a few killer pair of shoes to wear when we go to restaurants or a show. So I dress for the occasion. :) In the summer time I wear easy care summer skirts (twill or blue jean) that I can also throw in the wash. They are more flattering on me at my age than short shorts. :p


Dana ... your comment about CDers who dress partly in order to make up for the lack of femininity around them. You're new here, but believe me this is a contentious issue. Such CDs may well be autogynephilic (the love of oneself as a woman), which I suppose can be extrapolated from having such a great love of femininity there is a need to recreate it within the self, but not all CDers feel the way you do. You should do some research on this. Also, I've got to tell you that as a GG, I felt very sad when I first started reading there was a possibility my SO dressed partly because I wasn't feminine enough. In our case (as in most cases) it didn't turn out to be true, but when I was a newbie reading all this stuff, I was seriously second guessing my role in our relationship.

[Jonianne]

......Also, I've got to tell you that as a GG, I felt very sad when I first started reading there was a possibility my SO dressed partly because I wasn't feminine enough. In our case (as in most cases) it didn't turn out to be true,......

Reine, it's never true in any case. We cd'ers dress for our own selfish (not necessarly a bad thing) reasons. Trying to pin the reason we dress the way we do on the so-called lack of womens feminity in the way they dress, is the depth of insult and arrogance. Narcissism is probably a more accurate term.

All a cd'er has to do is stop looking in the mirror and look around, there are absolutely lovely GG's wearing beautiful dresses and skirts everywhere. Not to mention they make themselves look fantasticly feminine in the choices of comfortable and practical pants/leggings and tops they wear.

[ReineD]

Reine, it's never true in any case. We cd'ers dress for our own selfish (not necessarly a bad thing) reasons. Trying to pin the reason we dress the way we do on the so-called lack of womens feminity in the way they dress, is the depth of insult and arrogance. Narcissism is probably a more accurate term.

"Selfish" can be misconstrued by people who don't understand. I prefer to use "self-fulfillment". A CD dresses because he needs to.

I also don't think the CDs who feel they dress because women around them aren't feminine enough, are necessarily arrogant or narcissistic. They may be, or maybe they simply have a fetish for just the clothes? Could it be they find beauty in the clothes more than the woman, or maybe they have very narrow ideals of what women should look like, perhaps influenced by all the models in the clothing catalogues?

[Jonianne]

If a cd'er is driven to dress the way she thinks women should be dressing, but are not; I think that cd'er should be giving the acceptance she wants in her choices, to others who choose to dress how they feel. Does that mean that if all of a sudden, women started wearing beautiful dresses all the time, then would that cd'er no longer feel the need to dress in that fashon? If that's what's driving her, then shouldn't that be the case?

I'm sorry, I just don't get it when cd'ers (of all people?) rag on women for the way they choose to dress.

[Stephenie S]

To who ever quoted Wikipedia above to justify the statement that women did not wear pants in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Thus just displays how Wikipedia can be wrong. Remember, Wikipedia is an UNedited body of knowledge.

Listen, I was there. Women DID wear pants. I have many pictures of my mom in pants in the 30s and 40s. I wore pants and shorts in the 50s and 60s. Just AFTER school and NEVER to church or to travel or shop.

Yes, women wore skirts and dresses far more often back then. But let's try to keep a good grasp on reality here and avoid statements that women didn't wear pants until the 1970s. That's just silly.

S

[Eryn]

I felt very sad when I first started reading there was a possibility my SO dressed partly because I wasn't feminine enough. In our case (as in most cases) it didn't turn out to be true...


Reine, it's never true in any case...

Well, there may be a germ of truth there. Back before I came to terms with myself I would sometimes project my clothing desires onto my wife. I'd see a pair of cute shoes or a dress and try to get her interested in them but of course her tastes are different than mine. She has a strong sense of practicality that many CDers lack. Her disinterest was frustrating to me and with my lack of communication it was easy to incorrectly perceive this disinterest as a "lack of femininity" or perhaps a "waste of opportunity."

Since then we've become more open with each other and I dress more freely. I now own many items like those in which I was trying to interest my wife. From my new perspective it is easy to see why she doesn't want to spend long periods of time in dresses and heels. To a GG it's a no-brainer, but unless males have "walked the mile" they have no appreciation of the difficulties involved in wearing many items of clothing.

So, please forgive us our warped perspectives. We're wrong, but it's more because of lack of information and communications than any imperious intent.

[ReineD]

Well, there may be a germ of truth there. Back before I came to terms with myself I would sometimes project my clothing desires onto my wife. I'd see a pair of cute shoes or a dress and try to get her interested in them but of course her tastes are different than mine. She has a strong sense of practicality that many CDers lack. Her disinterest was frustrating to me and with my lack of communication it was easy to incorrectly perceive this disinterest as a "lack of femininity" or perhaps a "waste of opportunity."

Erin, I just edited my own quote in your post above, to put in my entire sentence. The partial sentence you quoted read as if I had had this issue with my SO, which I didn't. I just got spooked when I started reading the threads in this forum that spoke of CDers who dress because they feel women aren't feminine enough.

That said, you bring up an interesting point. Maybe it is the frustrated, closeted CDers who feel this way, and once they leave their closets and begin going out frequently, they change their attitudes?


Does that mean that if all of a sudden, women started wearing beautiful dresses all the time, then would that cd'er no longer feel the need to dress in that fashon? If that's what's driving her, then shouldn't that be the case?

Another great point! I hardly think that CDs would lose their desires to dress if GGs began dressing up on a daily basis. In fact, I think it would make the desire to dress even stronger. We've read countless threads by CDs who say they are often triggered when they see a beautiful woman dressed, or when the Spring and Fall catalogs come out. :p

[Eryn]

Reine, my intent was to reduce the quote to the single point to which I was responding and included ellipses to clearly indicate that it was but a partial quote. I apologize if this was perceived as an attempt to change your meaning.

Back on topic, I believe that it is impossible to "leave the closet" without changing one's attitudes markedly. Clothing and other items that work well for a 5-minute photoshoot or an evening lounging around home can be disasters when you have to walk a quarter-mile from parking to a theater or encounter wind or rain.

Mimi and I are going out to a nice dinner tonight with a group of friends. It's threatening rain here in SoCal. I'm having to think of alternative outfits in case it does decide to rain. I have carefully checked to make sure that the restaurant has valet parking. I would never have though of that in male mode and didn't really think of the fact that women have to do it either until I literally put myself in their shoes!

Eryn

[RenneB]

In our part of the world, it depends on where you are and what store you go to. If you go to the W**mart, you'll blend in if you have a sweat suit and sneakers. Make sure you don't wear any makeup as most of the female clientel don't either, mess up your hair and walk funny. I'm not trying to be cruel, it's just my observations of late. Now on the other hand, go to center city during lunch time near the legal offices and all the GGs are wearing skirt suits and heels.

So this brings up the point that one of the other posters made. GGs and blending in CDrs need to know where they are going, who they'll be meeting with, what the weather is like, who else will be there, how far do they have to walk. I'll wear 4"heels for a short walk, but switch to 3" heels for longer walks. For guys, it's do I wear my sneakers or work shoes, jeans or shorts and do I need a coat. The rest of us have to think of everything.. Heck, I'm planning my outfit for Monday and it's only Saturday. I've already checked the weather, figured out where I'm going and have almost finalized the outfit but just not sure on the colors yet.

This really is the fun part .... right?

Renne.....

[Shananigans]

Sorry, but I'm not sure where the CDs on this forum live with all of these supposedly homely women. Even in Ala-freaking-Bama, USA, we get out of our overalls long enough to get dolled up. (That was sarcasm, people).

In the summer and spring, it's just too dang hot to wear jeans!!! I rarely see a GG in the summer wearing jeans. Not in 100 degree weather and humidity...nope...never gonna happen. Cute shorts are really hard to find too. I think most of us grew out of the denim shorts and skirt phase with middle school. I just don't think they look good except on the beach. This is actually where I see them most of the time, and I feel it's appropriate. I'd say 90% of the women in the summer here wear sundresses and skirts. During the spring, it's pretty much the same.

But, honey, it ain't spring anymore in this part of the woods. So, most of the time, I see women wearing the skinny jeans with boots combination, or the skirt and boots combo. It looks pretty feminine to me.

I spend most of my life living out of a suitcase and bouncing around the map, so I just am unsure of these rocks y'all live under. I haven't noticed a shortage in good looking, well-dressed women!!! And, believe me, I'm looking!! :)

Sunday morning is like a damned fashion show.

Why do men dress so nasty now? It reminds me of this clip from Clueless almost every day that I wake up in the morning. I always feel overdressed when standing next to a man and it makes me not want to get as dolled up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xevjs_dtkk8

Maybe you need to talk to GMs and tell them that when they start looking a bit nicer, I won't feel so out of place next to them when I look like I rolled off a magazine cover. JUS' SAYIN'

http://cdn1.teen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/hottie-ryan-gosling-crazy-stupid-love.jpg

^^ Give me a guy dressing like that (Ryan Gossling in Crazy, Stupid Love...great movie, btw) and my clothes will just hop off of my body. Literally, I'll see you and my clothes will just fly off as if magnetized.

I never have to worry about this though because guys just roll out of bed and expect me to be all over them. Maybe THIS IS WHY I AM BISEXUAL! I had to COMPENSATE somewhere along the line. Sheeeeeesh

[Asche]

You can count me as one of those males who enjoys seeing women dressed nicely (according to my idea of nice!) in skirts or dresses. I work in New York City, where quite a few women wear skirts or dresses, even in the winter.

But I am also aware that the women who cross my line of sight have their own lives and their own reasons for what they wear. Some of the reasons women might not wear nice clothes or might not wear skirts or dresses (note that "nice clothes" might not be "skirts or dresses" and vice versa) have already been mentioned, but here are a few other thoughts:

Back when (and where) I was growing up, girls were required to wear skirts (or dresses) to school, to church, and to most social functions. It was very much about social control -- about having "ladylike behavior" pounded into your brain, about not getting to climb trees or play in the dirt, about school officials' dress code requirements and their sometimes degrading enforcement of them, and, of course, about the boys taunting you with "I see London, I see France" if you didn't stand or sit just so. I would be surprised if this didn't sour a lot of women of my generation on the idea of ever wearing skirts or dresses.

There are even now quite a few jobs where women are expected to dress up, where that includes knee-length skirts, pantyhose, and high heels. One woman of my acquaintance has a sales job (client representative or something like that), where she has to trek all over NYC in that sort of outfit. Year round. It's hot in the summer, cold in the winter, and hell on her feet even if she doesn't slip on the ice or stumble on bad pavement. She could choose to wear more practical clothes -- if she didn't mind getting fired the next day (if not sooner.) They need the money, so she dresses as she is required. Do I need to say that she wears pants (and no heels!) at home? So when I see a woman dressed "nicely," even while I'm enjoying it, I also wonder -- is she doing this because she wants to, or is it just one of those unpleasant things she has to do to keep her job and pay the rent?

Finally, as far as most people of both sexes "dressing down" more than they used to: my theory is that most people have never been all that interested in looking nice for its own sake. For most of human history, how one dressed was about one's social status. Formal and fancy dress was about demonstrating that one did not belong to a lower class, because one was rich enough to afford the clothes. (This is still true in some circles -- you don't buy a $10,000 dress simply to look good, you do it to impress people.) This trickled all the way down the social scale, although exactly what was required (or allowed) depended upon your class. Now that this has changed -- the idle rich no longer prove their idle richness by dressing up, now they prove it by showing that they don't have to conform to anything as plebian as an employer's dress code -- most people (both male and female) dress in whatever is easiest. Only those who like dressing for its own sake (or are in situations where they have to) bother any more.

On the other hand, anybody who wants to be seen as remotely fashionable goes to the gym regularly, or even obsessively. Plus ca change....

[TGMarla]

Shananegans is right. It's not just the women who are dressing down these days. It's everyone. As a society, we have lost something in the way of self assurance and self respect, along with respect for our institutions and for each other. We are a nation of slobs, who don't care any longer how others perceive us.

As for the whining about women no longer wearing dresses, I'd urge our fair ladies who grace us with their presence on this forum to consider the crowd that's doing the whining: a bunch of guys who absolutely love wearing dresses themselves, who do so at a frequency much greater than most real girls, and who would prefer to see them worn all the time every day be women everywhere. Consider the source.

[danielletorresani]

It's sad that some CD's dress more femme than GG's now. I wish I lived in the days when girls actually wore dresses, garters and stockings on a regular basis.

[LeaP]

I don't know ... dresses and skirts, etc. are all nice, as is variety. But fashionable, well-chosen casual clothing is very feminine, too. Garters, stockings, etc. really don't even register for me.

Lea

[Tina B.]

Dressing nice for an occasion, or the job is great, but as for my wife, she never wears dresses, or skirts, and I just don't care, she's not my size anyway, so I can't borrow them. Shananegans is right, theres nothing funnier than a bunch of guys in scruffy jeans and an old tee shirt and tennis shoes talking about how women don't dress nice enough. When was the last time you went to the mall in a pair of slacks and a sports coat, June Cleavers husband Ward, never wore jeans that I remember. Women are the practical ones, and will wear what is right for what they are doing, where they are going, and what the weather is. Men dress up for work, church and when the wife makes them. Looking for a mate, might be the only exception to this rule. But remember, at least enough women are out there buying, so I assume wearing, dresses,that they still make dresses, I don't think we are a large enough market, that they would still make them just for Crossdressers.
Tina B.