Can a CD really mix in with TG/TS socially?

[AKADonna]

About 10 years ago, I was in New Orleans on business with a group and we happened into a bar on Bourbon St, found some good looking women there only to learn from the bartender that there was not a GG in the house. Thoughts of that night have always intrigued me.

Over the years, I began CDing, but because of my large torso, never have been able to pass very well. I love the feminine feeling that I get wearing femme underwear, though. Therefore, I underdress in Bra, Panties and hosiery every day nowadays, but I rarely have the opportunity or desire to go out fully dressed, hair, makeup, etc.

In a couple of weeks, I'm returning to New Orleans on business and plan to go back to the TG/TS bar scene and check it out. Having never met socially with anyone from the scene in person, I am curious as to how well I might or might not be received. The way I look at it, Cds and TGs and Ts's are all seated on the same feminine bus - just in differing sections and with differing levels of commitment.

I've been thinking about going into a TG/TS bar dressed in drab and striking up a conversation with some person there. At some point in the conversation, I would not be at all ashamed or embarrased to explain that I am a CD (and in fact, underdressed at the time). Would I be looked down upon as some kind of 'amateur', a nut or non-committed or would I be viewed as a part of the scene?

While I am not particularly looking for any sort of relationship, I guess I would be looking for acceptance and am fearful of rejection. Remembering my last visit down there, most of those gurls there really passed very well and I'm sure that I will find some of them very appealling. :battingeyelashes: This could get exciting! Would that be too weird or what - with me dressed in drab and everyone else looking very femme?

How well do CD'ers mix in a TG/TS setting? Has anybody had exposure to such an experience? Can you advise me what I might expect?

[Debglam]

How well do CD'ers mix in a TG/TS setting? Has anybody had exposure to such an experience? Can you advise me what I might expect?

After a social event that included practically all parts of the transgender spectrum, I spent the latter part of the evening sitting in a hotel room, sipping wine and talking. There were probably about a half dozen of us from post-op women to part timers like me. We were just friends, girlfriends if you will, enjoying each others company. Nobody was asking for ID or where you were on the gender spectrum. I think we mixed pretty well and isn't that the way it should be? :)

Maybe that is why I don't get some of the divisiveness I see on this forum at times. :sad:

Debby

[Aprilrain]

If a CDer isn't TG then what the Heck IS a TG??? I KNOW what a TS is and there are a few different flavors. pre, post and non op. So what pray tell is a TG? I thought that was just a blanket term for all of us.

Anyway, SURE its possible for CDers to get along with TS it happens frequently at the support group that I attend. Though I have noticed that after a while the TS stop coming. I'm kinda at that point with it. I can't speak for anyone else but I know for me it has nothing to do with the CDers I'm just bored with it. I probably have more in common with their wives than them.

[Bree-asaurus]

The way I look at it, Cds and TGs and Ts's are all seated on the same feminine bus - just in differing sections and with differing levels of commitment.

I'm sorry, but I have to completely disagree with that statement. Yes they all fit in under the transgender umbrella because they all don't fit in with the binary gender roles of our society, but that's it. It has nothing to do with commitment... we are fundamentally different in WHY we wear what we wear.

I'm not a man that is so committed to wearing women's cloths that I decide I want to chop off my penis. I wear women's cloths because I AM a woman. I am NOT a man. I do NOT feel comfortable with my male parts, acting like a man, being treated like a man or wearing male attire. It's all horribly depressing to me to the point I want to kill myself. Yes I mean that literally.

Being transexual is NOT about the cloths... being a crossdresser IS. I do not find myself more comfortable around crossdressers just as I wouldn't find myself more comfortable around someone who collects coins. Sure I wear women's cloths (because I AM a woman) and I carry coins in my purse. But I'm not super into women's cloths just like I'm not super into coins. My boyfriend likes to collect coins, but I just can't relate :P

Everyone's different though, because while I don't care to go to gay bars to watch drag queens perform, I know some of my transexual friends do. I just don't see the entertainment value in it.

But if I met you at a bar I wouldn't feel like you are an amateur or whatever. You're still a human being just like everyone else. I would accept you for who you are just as you would accept me for who I am. We just wouldn't find any common ground simply because your a CD and I'm TS. Unless you had style and wanted to go shopping that is :P

[Mikaela]

I agree with Bree and I'm a CD.

A lot of CDs think we're the same spectrum and a lot of it has to do with a fundamental misperception of labeling ( it's also why we're all lumped in with Gay/Lesbian stuff). Just because TSs 'start' as crossdressers as part of their transition (and I mean that inoffensively insofar as you are wearing clothing not of you binary phenotypical gender) doesn't put them in the same category as those of us that are fetishists, want to be pretty, bigender, or may even have unresolved TS issues.

The community isn't as much of a community as people want to think.

Yes we can be empathetic and yes we can relate to some of the TS issues, but it is not all apples to apples. Expecting them to treat you like a sister is rude. Even expecting another CD to be your friend is rude. Like Bree said, don't expect -this- to be the common ground.

I don't necessarily find myself more comfortable around other CDs, because there are so many types. I go to places (the TG clubs) where they are, purely because it is a 'safe' environment, but not everyone is my friend. If my girlfriend is not there yet or my actual friends, then I am more likely to talk to the bartender or staff instead. I can't stand the 'performers' because I don't see the entertainment value in TS/DQs lip synching and dancing. I'd rather listen to karaoke.

As to your question, it's a big depends.
I don't talk to men there. Some people may want to hit on you as a presumed admirer. Ultimately it depends on whoever you wind up talking to.
A lot of people make assumptions about who they are talking to (CD, TS, ?) and it often comes across as rude. A TS mistaken for a CD may be offended ("So when did you start dressing?"). A CD mistaken for a TS may not be. I've been asked many times how long I've been on HRT. It might be a compliment, but I don't know, it's still a weird thing to say.

I'd keep the under dressing to yourself. A TS Woman doesn't want to hear about your undergarments and most CDs don't care or don't want to hear it either. You may want a pic of your femme self accessible on your phone if the conversation goes that way, but focus on connecting with the person on more things than wigs and panties, please.

[AKADonna]

Thanks Mikaela! That's just what I was looking for and concerned about. Having never been around othe Cd's or TG's or TS's, I don't know what would be so different anyway. They are just people, like myself. They all have their own issues and concerns and certainly don't need to hear about mine to have an enjoyable time. On my earlier visit, I was just so taken back by how beautiful those people were - I just have to get into position to talk to them and learn from them.

Thanks again!

Donna Sue

[kimdl93]

In my experience CDrs fit right in with others in the GLBT setting. (Notice I used a broader classification - or a bigger bus - if you will. ) I have felt very welcome during my outings to local GLBT bars, without exception. That doesn't mean that every patron was thrilled to see me or meet me - on the contrary most people keep to themselves and a circle of acquaintances. But, I've made a number of friends - gay, lesbian and CD.

I can't say how I might have been perceived if I went en drab, since I always go en femme. For me, the whole point is to be out among people and make friends while dressed. I started going to GLBT bars because I quite reasonably beleived that I'd be better accepted and probably safer there than in a straight bar scene.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hi,

I'm I.S. (intersexed) and attend many different TG meetings to assist in the transition process of TS and IS women.

There are a plethra of CD's that attend and attempt to align themselves with the TS/IS crowd.

Many proclaim that they struggle like TS/IS women do concerning life's events and I have to point out that is in no way true.

Cross dressers are exactly that. Most are heterosexual white men with no intentions of ever transitioning because they have nothing to transition to. They are men, that is what they are.

There's nothing wrong with being what you re but there is something terrably wrong about cross dressing men attempting to co opt the TS/IS struggle in an attempt to somehow gain public legitimacy for exactly what they are not.

You see a large and growing movement of TS/IS women distancing themselves from the umbrella term "transgender" because of men attempting to include themselves within the framework of women that have a birth defect.

The cross dresser does not know the discrimination of coming out at work as a woman and having your co workers laugh, threaten, bully or fire you because of what you are and your decision to transition.

The cross dresser does not know the pain of losing everything and evreyone close to them due to the TS or IS woman's decision to transition.

The cross dresser does not care to alter his body by hormone therapy and or surgeries in order to survive. They don't have to, their bodies are already correct for their mind.

The cross dresser does not deal with the reality of an ever increasing suicide rate because of the extreme loss, rejection and lack of future employment prospects that the majority of TS and IS women have to face.

Cross dressers do not live full time as a woman so they do not have to face the threat of violence that too many transitioned TS and IS women have to face on a daily basis.

This is not a rant against cross dressers but a response to those cross dressers that think they have political and social struggles that are the same as TS and IS women.

I have many cross dressers I call friends. None of them think they are somehow alligned with TS and IS women.

We can live socially with one another and that's about the extent of connection we have with one another.


Julia

[Mikaela]

Julia, I have to disagree with some of what you said, but even when I do, it's a disagreement on degree or semantics. I'm not saying you are WRONG, I just believe that we do have some points of similarity even when you feel we don't. Keep in mind CDs have our own spectrum as well.

If I was growing up with the info and financial resources I have now, I'd have considered therapy, treatment, and hrt. I may very well have transitioned. It may have been the wrong decision, but it would have been considered. I don't feel the revulsion of my body that most TSs I've spoken to do, but I often get dysphoria and things don't seem to be right. That's not the same as someone who likes panties or stockings. Does that make me a TS? No, but it is why I've felt more in common with some TSs than many CDs. But there is a reason when people ask me what I am, I usually say "Just a CD," and that is because I recognize the difference.

There is nothing wrong with co-opting the struggle, so to speak. TS people are piggybacking off the gay/lesbians. I'd considered a sexuality struggle being different than a gender rights issue, but that's just me. To the people who are ignorant and opposed, we're all sick in the head drag queens anyway. Spend 10 minutes on FARK when a TS issue comes up and you'll see the greatness of humanity.

Going to cut out the words in your quotes that don't apply...

"The cross dresser does not know the discrimination of coming out at work as a woman and having your co workers laugh, threaten, bully or fire you because of what you are. The cross dresser does not know the pain of losing everything and evreyone close to them due to [outing themselves]"

Uh, considering I've heard comments at work about drag queens, I'd disagree. And yes, we can be fired for it covertly or an alternate reason be found. We're all seen as perverts or 'fags' regardless of our reasons. There are real consequences to us outting ourselves. The primary difference here is a TS must out themselves to transition, while we get a choice to hide it or not do something stupid to risk it (underdress). There's a reason we feel guilt and shame and secrecy, why we purge. So no, it's not exactly the same, but there are enough points of comparison to more than adequately empathize.

"The cross dresser does not care to alter his body by hormone therapy and or surgeries in order to survive. They don't have to, their bodies are already correct for their mind. "
Some CDs do it for aesthetics (of which I disagree). I know of some myself in person. Others, like me, do have dysphoria. Maybe whatever causes transsexualism can have degrees associated with it. I don't know.

"Cross dressers do not live full time as a woman so they do not have to face the threat of violence that too many transitioned TS and IS women have to face on a daily basis."

Again, I disagree, but only in semantic degrees. No, we generally don't live full time as a woman or deal with it daily, but we do have the threat of violence every time we go out. I know of someone that was kidnapped and held for a couple days and raped and they are 'just a CD.' Just last weekend with my girlfriend in my arm, a guy came up to me and put his hand up my thigh under my skirt.

[Frédérique]

Can a CD really mix in with TG/TS socially?

Only if THEY have a sense of humor… :heehee:

[Julia_in_Pa]

Mikaela,

Everything you have told me indicates that you are not a cross dresser.

My statement does not apply to you.

The last thing TS and IS people want is to be aligned with gay community. We have nothing in common with them just like we have nothing in common with cross dresers.

There is nothing to compare to when a TS or IS woman goes into the HR office at her work and proclaim she is not a he.
Only those that have done this can know what kind of gamble this is.
This is so foreign even to TS and IS women who aren't transitioning I shouldn't have even included it in my statement.

Concerning your groping, I'm sorry this happened.

I had this happen to me in Harrisburg, PA two years ago.

My friend grabbed his arm while I took out a hunting knife out of my purse.

My friend sat on him while I told him how his balls would look in the trash can after I cut them off.

The piece of Sh7t actually pissed his pants!!! LOL!!

We kicked him a few times when he was on the ground then we left.

Sometimes the best thing to do is confront while your in a group.

Be well sister.


Julia




Julia, I have to disagree with some of what you said, but even when I do, it's a disagreement on degree or semantics. I'm not saying you are WRONG, I just believe that we do have some points of similarity even when you feel we don't. Keep in mind CDs have our own spectrum as well.

If I was growing up with the info and financial resources I have now, I'd have considered therapy, treatment, and hrt. I may very well have transitioned. It may have been the wrong decision, but it would have been considered. I don't feel the revulsion of my body that most TSs I've spoken to do, but I often get dysphoria and things don't seem to be right. That's not the same as someone who likes panties or stockings. Does that make me a TS? No, but it is why I've felt more in common with some TSs than many CDs. But there is a reason when people ask me what I am, I usually say "Just a CD," and that is because I recognize the difference.

There is nothing wrong with co-opting the struggle, so to speak. TS people are piggybacking off the gay/lesbians. I'd considered a sexuality struggle being different than a gender rights issue, but that's just me. To the people who are ignorant and opposed, we're all sick in the head drag queens anyway. Spend 10 minutes on FARK when a TS issue comes up and you'll see the greatness of humanity.

Going to cut out the words in your quotes that don't apply...

"The cross dresser does not know the discrimination of coming out at work as a woman and having your co workers laugh, threaten, bully or fire you because of what you are. The cross dresser does not know the pain of losing everything and evreyone close to them due to [outing themselves]"

Uh, considering I've heard comments at work about drag queens, I'd disagree. And yes, we can be fired for it covertly or an alternate reason be found. We're all seen as perverts or 'fags' regardless of our reasons. There are real consequences to us outting ourselves. The primary difference here is a TS must out themselves to transition, while we get a choice to hide it or not do something stupid to risk it (underdress). There's a reason we feel guilt and shame and secrecy, why we purge. So no, it's not exactly the same, but there are enough points of comparison to more than adequately empathize.

"The cross dresser does not care to alter his body by hormone therapy and or surgeries in order to survive. They don't have to, their bodies are already correct for their mind. "
Some CDs do it for aesthetics (of which I disagree). I know of some myself in person. Others, like me, do have dysphoria. Maybe whatever causes transsexualism can have degrees associated with it. I don't know.

"Cross dressers do not live full time as a woman so they do not have to face the threat of violence that too many transitioned TS and IS women have to face on a daily basis."

Again, I disagree, but only in semantic degrees. No, we generally don't live full time as a woman or deal with it daily, but we do have the threat of violence every time we go out. I know of someone that was kidnapped and held for a couple days and raped and they are 'just a CD.' Just last weekend with my girlfriend in my arm, a guy came up to me and put his hand up my thigh under my skirt.

[Lorileah]

Wow, here we go again. First to answer the OP. If they are at a bar, it is doubtful they would object to you being there. That said, I think maybe you need to understand the bar scene. The TS's who are transitioning usually don't hang in the environment. What you may be seeing are sex workers more than TS's (and yes I will divide them into two groups as long as we are throwing stones) or people on the prowl. In that case you will be unwelcome because you are encroaching.

Now in RE: the rest of this, you know people we are all in the same boat, you can row together or you can flounder. This isn't just the TG vs TS thing. It is life. If after surgery you feel that you don't need to stand up for people who are discriminated against or in any fashion kept down then you are welcome to join the majority of people who don't care until someone knocks on their door to take away or deny a right. 40 years ago people stood up for equal rights. They didn't look at color, religion, sex or any of that. It was a pipe dream I know but what little that was gained was because they saw that we are all one.

[Mikaela]

Well I'm something... just doesnt seem so black and white to me. Then again, maybe I'm just doing that to myself. :)

The guy who touched me was threatened with a punch. He tried being all bravado, but then my gf threatened him. He left.



The last thing TS and IS people want is to be aligned with gay community. We have nothing in common with them just like we have nothing in common with cross dresers.

I know, but the fact is, GLBT is an acronym for a reason. I agree with how you feel though.


There is nothing to compare to when a TS or IS woman goes into the HR office at her work and proclaim she is not a he.
Only those that have done this can know what kind of gamble this is.


Agreed.

[arbon]

Mikaela,


The last thing TS and IS people want is to be aligned with gay community. We have nothing in common with them just like we have nothing in common with cross dresers.

Julia

I don't have a problem with it at all.

Have many gay friends and some cd friends because we do have lots in common.

If you have nothing in common with CD's then why be here?

[Julia_in_Pa]

There's actually a TS section.

I see many cross dressers posting in that forum.

When I see the term TS in a thread title in the CD area it makes it inclusive of the TS community.

Now you know.

Now go forth with knowledge Arbon.


Julia



I don't have a problem with it at all.

Have many gay friends and some cd friends because we do have lots in common.

If you have nothing in common with CD's then why be here?

[Violetgray]

I'd keep the under dressing to yourself. A TS Woman doesn't want to hear about your undergarments and most CDs don't care or don't want to hear it either. You may want a pic of your femme self accessible on your phone if the conversation goes that way, but focus on connecting with the person on more things than wigs and panties, please.

This is one of the most important things that have been said here so far. if you come in as a man and mention that you are underdressed, the first thing they are going to think is "fetishist!" There is nothing wrong with being a fetishist, but it is at its core a sexual thing, and it may make them uncomfortable.

Now Julia,

You've said some things here that I believe are misguided. While there are some very significant fundamental differences between TS and CD girls, we have a lot more in common than you realize. Is it harder to be a TS than a CD? As far as I can tell, definitely. But TS's and CD's have BOTH lost wives, jobs, and relatives because of who they are.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, while not ALL of what a TS goes through is shared by CD's, some of it is.

Also, TS's wanting to distance themselves politically from cd's, gays, and lesbians is crazy talk. Why? because the people who are our enemies don't give a damn what makes us different from each other. Here's a conversation that has never happened:

"We're gonna kick your ass fag!"

"Hold on boys. I'm not a transsexual, just a crossdresser."

"Oh. Nevermind then."

They look at gays and transpeople the way that the KKK looks at blacks and hispanics.

[Bree-asaurus]

This is one of the most important things that have been said here so far. if you come in as a man and mention that you are underdressed, the first thing they are going to think is "fetishist!" There is nothing wrong with being a fetishist, but it is at its core a sexual thing, and it may make them uncomfortable.

Now Julia,

You've said some things here that I believe are misguided. While there are some very significant fundamental differences between TS and CD girls, we have a lot more in common than you realize. Is it harder to be a TS than a CD? As far as I can tell, definitely. But TS's and CD's have BOTH lost wives, jobs, and relatives because of who they are.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, while not ALL of what a TS goes through is shared by CD's, some of it is.

Also, TS's wanting to distance themselves politically from cd's, gays, and lesbians is crazy talk. Why? because the people who are our enemies don't give a damn what makes us different from each other. Here's a conversation that has never happened:

"We're gonna kick your ass fag!"

"Hold on boys. I'm not a transsexual, just a crossdresser."

"Oh. Nevermind then."

They look at gays and transpeople the way that the KKK looks at blacks and hispanics.

I know that especially locally, people from all over the LGBT spectrum come out to support each other. Our local trans support group is open to anyone. We have members of the LGB community fighting for our rights just as we have members for the T community fighting for LGB rights.

What we all have in common is that we are having our rights and our freedoms taken away simply because we are different and we are not understood.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

my best 2 friends are cd...one married, one divorced... we get along great..i got to know them when i felt i was only crossdressing..

all the politics is bs... friends are friends, people are people..

no doubt that cd's often feel the need to compare to ts and flirt with ideas like hrt and transition...i talk about this with my friends all the time..
when we talk it is crystal clear to all of us that transition and crossdressing are incomparable in almost every way.. its simply understood.

anyway, ts women that are living successfully transitioned lives are rarely in social settings that are specifically for tg's...if i go, its to see old friends...

there are very few tg places out there..
if you find them just go and enjoy yourself.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Bree,

Remember what Barney Frank did to trans people in 2007 when he threw us under the bus to get ENDA passed ??????

Gay people are aligned with us really?????

I beg of you to reconsider your position.'

[Bree-asaurus]

Bree,

Remember what Barney Frank did to trans people in 2007 when he threw us under the bus to get ENDA passed ??????

Gay people are aligned with us really?????

I beg of you to reconsider your position.'

There are bad apples everywhere you look. You might as well hate EVERY variety of human being out there because I'm sure at least one of each has wronged you in some way.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Barney Frank is a congressman with much power Bree.

He's not the local twink down at the corner gay bar.

His actions still cause problems for the U.S. TS/IS population over four years later.

I'm not a real fan of the human animal. I've seen what it can do to destroy.


Julia

[Bree-asaurus]

Barney Frank is a congressman with much power Bree.

He's not the local twink down at the corner gay bar.

His actions still cause problems for the U.S. TS/IS population over four years later.

I'm not a real fan of the human animal. I've seen what it can do to destroy.


Julia

I understand that, but just because one gay in power isn't looking out for us means we should stay away from gays everywhere?

We have gay activist groups here in san antonio busting their butts to get us respect and equal rights. They've been fighting to get gender redefined and proper bathroom privileges in our local colleges so young trans people can feel comfortable in their schools.

But we should shun them and tell them to screw off because one of "their kind" has his head up his ass?

[DebbieL]

You can see from the wide variety of responses that there are as many different possible reactions as there are people. This is as it should be, every PERSON is different. Transgender was a term designed to be inclusive, but it also acknowledges that there is a spectrum from boys who want to be girls and will do whatever it takes to do it (TS in transition or post-op TS). Ironically, many times a Post-Op TS will begin to avoid the TS/TG/TV scene, because they are now living as what they are, a woman.

At the other extreme of the scale are the men who like wearing women's clothing, but maybe only certain items, or maybe only prior to or during sex. The rest of their lives, they want to be men, and have no desire to even consider transition.

And then there is that HUGE grey area, the men who want to be women, but don't want to do what it takes to make the transition, or are afraid they wouldn't be satisfied with the result. It's much easier to enjoy the fantasy of becoming a woman than it is to actually become one.

Within that spectrum we have those who are afraid of consequences, so they ONLY underdress in public. Then there are the werewolves who only come out when the moon is full (or new so they won't be seen), and the vampires (who only come out at night, once or twice a week), and the night-owls (who dress full-fem at least once a day), and the part-timers (who dress as much as they can), and the 128ers (the only time they DON'T dress is when they are at work).

Full-timers are those who have taken the bold step toward transition. They may have made many sacrifices to come this far, and they have had to deal with consequences that would make most people too upset to go on. They have to have great courage, commitment, and compassion. They also know what it's like to be a woman, because only their closest friends and lovers actually know what's under the skirt.

Many of those who have reached the point where they are making public appearances, have also started other measures such as hair removal, facial electrolysis, hormones of various types, posture and voice lessons, and often some intense coaching from another TS or another woman who is very supportive.

However, many of those who have gone further up the TG/TS Ladder also remember those early days, when they were terrified to talk to anybody, and never knew there were people like them. They remember how hard it was to approach their first TS or TG and just have any kind of conversation. They had a million questions that have been plaguing them for years, even decades, and they get so excited that someone is finally there who might be able to answer some of these questions - that they often look like love-sick puppies - not because they are in love, but because they are so desperately wanting to ask those questions and to have someone who might really understand what it's like for them, to answer those questions.

It may be a bit hard for them to remember that first time they could actually talk to someone who understood. It may remind them of their own pain, the time when they didn't know what they were, and were afraid of what they were. They may even remember their own experiences of being rejected, or their first attempts to come out, and some of the painful memories that brought back. They might even try to discourage you, because they don't want you to have to experience that kind of emotional pain, unless you really ARE transsexual.

I remember struggling for decades. Even at 40 years old, I was being told that since I was attracted to women, I couldn't make it as a transsexual. I went through my own version of pain, and struggled. When I finally found someone who was accepting, I hung on way to long, even when they stopped being supportive. I wasted 10 years with one woman, and 15 years with another. At the same time, there was so much growth in so many areas.

I was a 128er when I stopped, because I was told I couldn't be a leader, I couldn't make a difference, I couldn't do the things I thought were important, unless I burned the wardrobe. But I was still Debbie inside. But the more I resisted letting Debbie out, the more I struggled with my weight, appearance, and health issues. Finally, after surviving a heart attack and a stroke, and impacting the lives of hundreds of millions of people anonymously, I finally realized that I had to let Debbie out. When my dad was about to die, he said "I want you to be yourself". From that moment on, I stopped hiding Debbie. I even started dressing up femme while I was taking care of him. He was glad to see who I had become, and could see that I was so much happier this way.

I think the real issue is that nobody wants to try and force you to go where you don't want to go. You may not be ready yet, or you may be perfectly content as you are. I suspect that since you are asking these kinds of questions in these kinds of groups, that you may be one of those who wants to go further than you are willing to admit, even to yourself.

So yes, I would strongly recommend that you explore your options, find some clubs or meetings where you can meet other TS and TGs, and see who is willing to listen to you, and answer your questions. At very minimum, it could be the beginning of a wonderful friendship.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Barney Frank is a congressman with much power Bree.

He's not the local twink down at the corner gay bar.

His actions still cause problems for the U.S. TS/IS population over four years later.

I'm not a real fan of the human animal. I've seen what it can do to destroy.


Julia


twink?? wow, that kind of tells me where you are coming from.. do you think we don't know who barney frank is??

have you considered moving to a private island where no one can bother you?

[Cari]

Yes and I have and enjoyed the experience.
Its absolutely possible to all get along.

You need to remember that T's are just a slice of the whole population.
You will find folks who don't get along and ones who have a chip on their shoulder.
there are also allot of really good people to hang out with.

If you don't like the scene at one bar try another; reach out to some locals over the net and get some advice.
In general I have been treated as I have treated others, same as any other group :-)

[Violetgray]

Bree,

Remember what Barney Frank did to trans people in 2007 when he threw us under the bus to get ENDA passed ??????

Gay people are aligned with us really?????

I beg of you to reconsider your position.'

So gays and transpeople do not share anything in common because a prominent gay politician did something that hurt the trans community? That means ALL gays and transpeople have nothing significant in common? What about the gays and trans people that aren't involved in politics? Both have to come out to their parents, both get beaten up, both have narrow-minded interpretations of religion thrown at them.

(trying to stay on subject here) one thing I think that gays, TS's, and Cd's all have in common is that we are ALL persecuted for gender transgressions. Cd's look like the wrong gender. Ts's identify as the wrong gender. Gays love the wrong gender. So at the very least Donna, I would hope they'd feel some sort of connection based on a mutual desire for tolerance and being non-judgemental.

[Marissa333]

So gays and transpeople do not share anything in common because a prominent gay politician did something that hurt the trans community? That means ALL gays and transpeople have nothing significant in common? What about the gays and trans people that aren't involved in politics? Both have to come out to their parents, both get beaten up, both have narrow-minded interpretations of religion thrown at them.

(trying to stay on subject here) one thing I think that gays, TS's, and Cd's all have in common is that we are ALL persecuted for gender transgressions. Cd's look like the wrong gender. Ts's identify as the wrong gender. Gays love the wrong gender. So at the very least Donna, I would hope they'd feel some sort of connection based on a mutual desire for tolerance and being non-judgemental. very well said Violet!

There are a lot of pissed people in this thread, the only thing I am pissed about, is that no one has mentioned the name or address of this club where all the hot T-girls are!

[Rianna Humble]

Gay people are aligned with us really?????

Have you read the history of the Stonewall riots? If Gays had been so standoffish as you seem to think, there would have been no riots when the Stonewall police decided to rough up the TG folk in the bar where it all kicked off. Remember the police had let the Gays and Lesbians leave unmolested. The protest was by Gays and Lesbians and was sparked because the police were discriminating against the trans folk in the bar.

What do you think that the LGB folk get from adding T folk into their campaigning? I know it is not kudos.

[Julia_in_Pa]

My fiance is a gay woman. She is an exception to the rule when it comes to acceptance of trans men and women.

The womyn festivals where the lesbian community gather each year for music, political and social interaction barred TS and IS women from participating until a court order was handed to them forcing them to accept TS and IS women.

There is a well known divide in political arms for gay people and their lack of knowledge of TS and IS issues.

I should know, I've attempted to teach them about our plight and our challenges to no avail.

We are as foreign to them as they are to us.

The Stonewall riots and the inclusion of "transgendered" people within that situation were mostly documented as gay men in drag.
Please read the history of such.

Sadly Ts and IS people are on their own in the overwhelming majority of life's challenges despite words to the contrary.

There once was a time where I was as trusting as all of you then reality happened.

If transition has taught me anything it is to assume everyone is an enemy outside the TS/IS circle until it is proven otherwise.

This is just smart thinking.

To believe otherwise is to be extremely fool hearty with your life and downright dangerous to your physical health.

When your TS/IS if you don't rely on yourself your as good as dead. Take that as gospel.


Julia

[qewrill]

Yes, we all should be sisters or brothers in this. We need to be a family. There are more people agasint us...then for us.

[Johnnifer]

Can crossdressers mix with TS's socially? Yes, at least in real life. I been to Tiffany Club in Auburn a few times and we mixed fairly well, although the TG range itself was well mixed their creating a spectrum.

Online I find that except for the most woman centered of them, TS's often dominate TG themed chats and push others to the sidelines. So many times I went online to TG support chats only to find them clueless on crossdresser issues and the whole chat dominated by things that mainly focus on TS interest.

As for gay/TG rivalry due to questioning both sexuality and gender I got hurt by both sides. Many TG people get very very very defensive on the idea of a non strait who prefers men in their midst. It's as if they think one will make everyone see them as gay. Just say you like guys and identify as male on a typical TG chat and you'd get people posting just to say how strait (or bi but FEMALE bi) they are.

On the other hands gays are all about macho and if you like dressing or the ideas of men dressing or acting feminine you end up shunned with no one to turn to.

Both sides forget one needs not be strait to crossdress.

[Rianna Humble]

The Stonewall riots and the inclusion of "transgendered" people within that situation were mostly documented as gay men in drag.
Please read the history of such.

They were documented as "gay men in drag" by the same sort of people who would call you a gay man.

The authoritative histories tell the truth.

[AllieSF]

Yes you can as others here have already stated. Socialize to me means talking about whatever, being a human being and just interacting with others. No need to bring up the TG/TS/CD side unless you absolutely need to. Start as a conversation and then see where it leads. I personally interface with all types of strangers when I am out and we get into very deep conversations about my lifestyle, theirs and that of other third parties. I have had no problems doing that with all from complete strangers (most), to straight, LGBT, tourists, locals, who ever. The success in the conversation will depend on your tact and communication skills.

Now if your question is about whether you could be good acquaintances who will meet periodically and hang out together, then the situation could be different. One reason is to meet someone and strike up a conversation, the other is to actually be able to click together enough to want to meet again. There are many reasons for that, including incompatible personalities and maybe one's own exclusion of who they decide to associate with. I personally am open to pretty much all types as long as our personalities and characters align in some way.

[Proteus]

I think part of the conflict in this thread comes from using the term CD for dressing for purely non-gender reasons. Lots of bigendered or androgynous people who find themselves in the transgender spectrum do in fact use the term CD to describe themselves. I think the whole point of the term was to be more neutral and inclusive than words like transvestite, which carries too many connotations like pervert, exhibitionist, drag queen, etc.

Personally I like to describe myself as bigendered. I miss my female expression sorely when I have to revert to male mode, but I don't feel like I can discard one gender and fully embrace the other. Maybe it will change with time, but in the meantime I hope I can still be considered worthy by the transgender community.

[Lunchbox]

Sounds like flawed logic to me, that a cd and a ts/tg cant get along. More often then not it would be personailty conflicts between people, not for the sole reason im a crossdresser and theyre a transexual.

[sometimes_miss]

I think like anything else, as long as you respect others and how they feel, you'll probably be accepted by most of them. Example: Many years ago, I double dated with a friend who's new GF was bi; her friend that I was paired with was clearly butch, and we acknowledged each other early on that it was going to be an 'interesting' evening. I had a great time. The last place we wound up was a female gay bar; the woman I was with owned the place, and had to go to check everything including closing it down, so the last few hours I never saw her. But everyone else was very nice, I sat at the bar and talked to some of the girls, played pool, pretty much like any other bar experience even though I knew there was no one there that was 'looking for a guy like me'. At the end of the night, I even walked a couple of the girls out to their cars (by request, for safety reasons).
I've always gotten along with gay people quite well.
There will always be a few nuts in any group. But I think most TS/TG folks would tolerate CD's just fine.

[msginaadoll]

I believe that we as individuals can get along if we choose. We may or may not find out that we have anything in common with each other but that goes deeper than dressing. We all are individuals. I do disagree that one group whether it is transsexual, transvestite, crossdresser, etc has had more pain than another. All of us have known pain all of us have known loss. There are crossdressers who have lost because of there dressing. Why do we ever want to compare who has been hurt more who has felt more pain.... Thats like saying because I lost my leg you dont have the pain because u only have diabetes.

[RachelOKC]

This "CD vs TS" stuff always amuses and annoys me at the same time. There is absolutely no reason why people of different beliefs, life situations, or WHATEVER can't socially interact and be good friends especially if they simply respect one another. It happens every day and those of us who do have friends all across the gender (and plenty of other) spectrum can only shake our heads at fools who somehow argue otherwise. Would you argue that Jews and Muslims can't be friends? Blacks and whites? Conservative and liberal? Ridiculous, uninformed, and narrow minded.

People are a whole lot more complicated than one aspect of their personality and successful relationships work because there is at least some common ground somewhere. If you can't find common ground with other people then perhaps your standards are too exacting or you're not trying hard enough to get to know people. And if you're simply dismissing other people based on your intolerance of who they are...then you might just be a bigot.

[ReineD]

The way I look at it, Cds and TGs and Ts's are all seated on the same feminine bus - just in differing sections and with differing levels of commitment.

How well do CD'ers mix in a TG/TS setting? Has anybody had exposure to such an experience? Can you advise me what I might expect?

First of all, "TG" is an umbrella term for anyone who crosses the gender lines: CD, TS (transmen & transwomen) quenderqueer, bigender, etc. Just so you know, "TG" is not synonymous with "TS", nor is it an "in-between" state between a CD and a TS. If someone is struggling and hasn't figured out whether they are CD or TS, a better term for this person is "TS Questionning".

Second, there's a wide range of CDs: some have perfected the art of transforming themselves and appear quite natural dressed. They dress like regular GGs. Others feel they will never pass, either because of their physiognomy or they don't go out that often and haven't invested the $$ & time it takes to successfully blend or pass. And still others dress for fetish. I say this just to let you know that just because someone passes well, it doesn't mean they are TS.

And last, different groups have different dynamics. I've heard horror stories in here from TSs who really don't respect CDs. But I've got to say that my SO belongs to a wonderful TG support group (I say "TG" because there is a healthy mix of both CDs and TSs), and everyone gets along very well. Some of the TSs there have had SRS, others are 24/7 pre-op, plus there is a wide range of CDs from those who've been at it for years and pass very well, to those who are fairly new and don't pass so well, and I'm sure a few "TS Questioning" as well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So there you have it! It depends on the group. I have a feeling though that people will likely be more polite in real life than they are, when hiding behind the anonymity of a large forum. :p


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT


We can live socially with one another and that's about the extent of connection we have with one another.

Wasn't that the OP's question? What is the likelihood of everyone getting along? I appreciate that you've had a difficult life, but to constantly get on the soapbox dismissing the struggles that CDs go though is getting a little tiresome.

Oh, and BTW, CDs are not just white males. There are CDs in all cultures, and they do need just as much legal protection as anyone else. :Angry3:

[nylon boy]

In my experience 90% of tg/ts cd's are some of the nicest and understanding people you can meet,at the end of the day we are all in the same boat ;-)

[Starling]

I identify as TS and I've been dysphoric for as long as I remember, well before I ever had a name to put to it. Gender difference was such a taboo that I didn't know anyone else like me, and therefore I felt completely alone. I gravitated to gay people and others who were not "average," because I was an outsider myself; and that's why it puzzles me that there can be so much rancor among sex and gender minorities.

One thing we all definitely face, to our peril, is a widespread belief among the general public that we are all dangerous perverts, like child molesters or rapists. This alone would be enough to signify a community of interest: that we do not victimize others, just by being ourselves.

Perhaps the very fact that society has evolved to the point where we can live more openly has engendered this fractionization. If so, I hope it's just a phase we're going through.

:) Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So there you have it! It depends on the group. I have a feeling though that people will likely be more polite in real life than they are, when hiding behind the anonymity of a large forum. :p


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:

This pretty much sums it up....

[marlaNYC]

in my experience, yes. there's a couple of places here where all mix, where it's open and friendly and welcoming of all types. also from my experience, where the mix was CD heavy, i observed that it tends to be more sexually slanted and fetish-y. perhaps that's just an element of this city. it's kinda unfortunate that i've felt creeped out by some of the propositions i received at such events, but it's ok - i can cope. it doesn't make for a great or comfortable social night, though. TS/TG slanted nights/events have been far more relaxed and less 'charged'. again, this is purely from my own experiences and i can't speak for anyone else but myself.

different time and place, but when i was first a part of any scene in London, everyone mixed in together and were welcoming and encouraging and friendly with each other. straight, gay, CD, TS, punk, goth, all colors of skin - everyone. gatherings where friends became friends, looked out for friends and cared not one jot about any persuasions. we were all in it together, the alienated, disaffected and dissatisfied youth all trying to find out way and our place. naive and wonderful.

[DebbieL]

Bree,
Remember what Barney Frank did to trans people in 2007 when he threw us under the bus to get ENDA passed ??????

Consider the demographics of states that protect anybody.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_LGBT_civil_rights_July_2011.svg

Rights Map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_LGBT_civil_rights_July_2011.svg)

New Jersey had people like me, and later Rue Paul who came to New Jersey and made regular public appearances and let the public know about our gender identity situation. Several of the pharma companies that produce HRT products are located in NJ as well. AT&T was one of the first companies to have an official policy of supporting transsexuals during transition. Shortly before divestature, the had several transsexual MtFs who transitioned while keeping their jobs. Many of them stayed with AT&T and went on to get a number of additional patents.

Several IT and technology companies have discovered that TGs and TSs have an unusual capacity for inventive or creative thought. They have a strong technical background because they didn't socialize with boys and weren't allowed to socialize with girls, so they did a LOT of reading. Since most fiction would be frustrating, they read a LOT of NON-FICTION books. But since they questioned their very gender and sexuality, they also learned to challenge the status quo, learning to create things that had been thought to be impossible.

Having to keep their sexual identity a secret growing up also made them good at keeping secrets of others. Making them better candidates for research projects.

Colorado and New Mexico had a Gender Reassignment center in Trinidad NM, about 20 miles south of the Colorado border. Many came to Trinidad and then moved to Denver, where there was a very large GLBT community (several times larger than San Francisco or NYC by area).

In Nevada, many TS work as Show Girls, Waitresses, and as dancers. California is a popular place for facial feminization surgery as well as a good place to make money in adult video.

Chicago is also another large urban area where many transgendered people have settled as well as a good place for transmen. Many of the other states that only protect against sexual preference, also protect against PERCEIVED sexual preference, for example, if you're a feminine man, they can't fire you because you would be perceived as gay.


Gay people are aligned with us really?????
I beg of you to reconsider your position.'

Barney Frank had to decide whether to try and push the transgender issue or whether to try for a bill that had a much better chance of passing. Many states that passed the "Perceived Sexuality" portion of the sexual preference protection were able to use that clause to extend protection to transsexuals and transgendered.

Unfortunately, opponents of the Transgender protection like to use images of drag queens like Rue Paul or Lady Bunny teaching in a classroom. Most transsexuals get so good at passing that most of them would never know that the woman teaching their kids math or science was once a man, and maybe even still has a few man-parts left.

[eluuzion]

Colorado and New Mexico had a Gender Reassignment center in Trinidad NM, about 20 miles south of the Colorado border. Many came to Trinidad and then moved to Denver, where there was a very large GLBT community (several times larger than San Francisco or NYC by area).


Just a little geographic clarification here…Trinidad is in Colorado. Not exactly a popular tourist attraction, lol. If you are going south on I-25 to NM or AZ, don’t blink or you will miss it. Yes it certainly earned a reputation for surgery.

It is close to a town called Cokedale. Let’s see…if Trinidad earned a reputation as the
“Sex Change Capital”…then what do you suppose Cokedale is famous for? Hehehe…never mind, just a thought. lol

Moving onto topic…

Knives, kicking, bar fights…you all hang with a pretty tough crowd around here, lol. Sounds like the Wild Wild east. Glad I live in the West. Maybe I should be wearing a six-shooter on my hip with that LBD. Some of the recent threads make it sound like a war out there, lol.

Maybe I just don’t take life quite as seriously as I should, but there is little hope in changing my attitude in this lifetime. I was neck-deep in the art world for many years when I lived in Colorado Springs…well actually Cascade (in mtns at base of Pikes Peak). I had an art glass studio and later a national wholesale art glass lamp mfg company. Some of you probably still have lamps in your house that I made, lol.

I was not CDing in those days, but my partner was Bi-Lesbian (mostly Lesbian I guess). Most of our “gang” consisted of lesbian friends and my social life was full of every gender variation discussed on this forum as well as a few with their own creative descriptions. Frankly, it was just too complex for anybody to worry about “what” any particular person “was”. It did not really matter to most of the people I knew. Nobody really cared.

The “gang” would always be hanging out in gay or alternative bars. I was typically the “straight” lone ranger at most places we frequented. I was the source of amusement many times for the mixed crowd at the (mostly gay) bars, but it was always friendly and fun for everyone.

I never felt threatened or witnessed anything close to a “gender standoff”. I believe you can have fun with just about anybody in any venue if you have the right attitude. I t don’t feel like I have anything to “defend” or “prove” to anybody. I can fit in just about anyplace with anyone. But wherever I go, I go with a mission of making friends.

It works for me…

FYI...
Index of jurisdictions with Explicitly TG-Inclusive Non-Discrimination Laws
http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/reports/fact_sheets/all_jurisdictions_w_pop_8_08.pdf

Index of Maps/Lists of State Laws & Policies (LGBT related) on bathrooms, workplace etc.
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/maps-of-state-laws-policies

:hugs:

:love:

[Kaz]

I have recently been advised to walk away from these threads as they really get to me and I may respond inappropriately... oh yeah!

My take on what I have read on the threads is simply this. Whenever a CD attempts to open a thread about the broader issue of TG... there is an immediate attack by some of the TS community. It is happening on every post. This would imply, at least to me, that there is a fundamental issue.

Some TS and IS?.. forgive me I am from Yorkshire UK... IS is Information Systems... I suspect that this is different (I await the verbal attack that will now ensue as I have admitted that I am not genned up on all the terminology, and thereby I am not a legitimate part of whatever 'group' this is?)....

My reading is simple... TS regard all CDs with contempt. Discuss.

[*Vanessa*]

.
This is a stupid thread and I will meet anyone outside who thinks otherwise!

Plan enough?

[Rianna Humble]

TS regard all CDs with contempt. Discuss.

Kaz, please do not attempt to derail this thread beyond what has already happened.

If you want to start a flame war about such puerile statements, it would be better done in a thread of your own making.

[Sally24]

To answer AKADonna instead of hijacking her thread for political purposes......

I don't know if the TS ladies you saw years ago were "professionals" or not. Either way, as long as you don't seem to be competing, or scaring away the clientel I'm sure they would be friendly in such a social setting. In New England the only issue regarding CD/TS relations is that some of the TS gradually want to just fade into the woodwork. That's their choice and I don't have a problem with that. The ones that choose to live openly still come out with us and have a good time. Other than that we work hand in hand politically. If you asked the organizations here about distancing themselves from the CD folk they would just stare at you and ask why! We are all friends and have common goals. Are we identical? Of course not. But we are polite social people with common likes and needs and we come together to appreciate our differences. Not all gay people like us or understand us. That doesn't keep us from enjoying their company. Our favorite club before it closed was a lesbian (women's alternate lifestyle as the club advertised it) bar. The girls who liked us danced and talked with us and had a grand time. Those that didn't just kept to themselves and didn't make any show of their dislike. I'm assuming this as we never even got mean looks or anything.

Most good clubs try to keep the atmosphere friendly and safe. Anything else just loses them money. The bouncers are your friends in most cases and will eject trouble makers as long as you keep your wits about you. And you might want to leave any thoughts of hunting knives at home. Just about everywhere that is a concealed weapon and will get you a free nights stay.

Go out and have fun. Just try not to be alone on the street, safety in numbers.

[RachelOKC]

My reading is simple... TS regard all CDs with contempt. Discuss.

Oy vey.

Clearly one or two (so-called) TS'es speak authoritatively for all of their community and clearly one or two (so-called) CD's speak authoritatively for all of their community. Yeah, or not. Those of us who are happy to have friends of all gender identities are just as happy to tell the gender apartheidists "oh well, your loss."

[Niya W]

Walks in and gets a headache. Were to start . I guess I never read the memo saying the TS and CD and gays can't socialize. Any one that has met me can tell you I have no problem socializing with CDs. I'm a member of DVG and the River city gems. There are TS there CD's all socializing in the same room. If you met Allie you'd know she will talk to any one :)

[docrobbysherry]

Politics aside! Here's MY 2 cents, Donna.
It's NOT so much about the TS and CD thing. It's MORE about comfortable cliques! The same as it is EVERYWHERE ELSE when humans r involved socially!

I've seen it at the SCC. While I feel comfortable chatting up ANYONE at the bar there, (I'm homelier than everyone, but have a better figure than most!). I noticed how by the 3rd evening in Atlanta, u start seeing the same girls together at a table!

If u enter a bar/meeting/etc. where u r a new comer, you're likely to get some flack no matter how fem u look or act! And, I would NOT suggest going to meet dressed CD/TSs in drab! Underdressing is pointless to some of us and u yourself r likely to feel uncomfortable if everyone else is dressed! I did that at the SCC my first nite and I knew a LOT of those girls before hand! After an hour, I had to go get dressed to feel part of the group!

[LeaP]

I think part of the conflict in this thread comes from using the term CD for dressing for purely non-gender reasons. Lots of bigendered or androgynous people who find themselves in the transgender spectrum do in fact use the term CD to describe themselves.

Thank you.

I'll point out that *many* TSs never transition. Let's see, what's the difference between a crossdresser with GID who doesn't identify with their natal sex who never transitions and a TS with GID who doesn't identify with their natal sex who never transitions? Ummmm. Hmmmm.

OK, now what's the difference between that same crossdresser that opts for HRT and a few physical changes and the same forever pre-op TS that does the same? Ummmmm ...

Now, onto to the full-time, GID crossdresser with a fem identity vs. the transitioned TS. Oh, no - NOTHING in common there, is there?

Last of all, let me point out the most obvious thing of all. MOST crossdressers LIVE with women! I.e., there should be no issue whatsoever with crossdressers getting along with TSs, who are, after all, women. Sheesh.

Lea

[Inna]

After all is said and done, I come into a conversation and stir up still waters a bit.

I don't know about you, but I truly enjoy the "veggie left over delight" it is a soup every mom had to learn to make from all left overs and it tasted delightful!!!!!!
Basically, we are all the bits and pieces of scrap society had left by its stringent definitions of what is in and what is out, we are the left overs of regime of gender conformity and unwanted funky bits which are usually full of most nutrients normally discarded and thrown away.

CD TS IS, what a fantastic tasting combo of tastes and life perspectives, we are as well individual pieces with characters and senses, wants and needs.

We are riding the same bus and starting to see REGULAR, NORMAL folks jump on that bus as well, not because they them selves are part of us NO, because they live on the buses rout :)
World is changing, day after day a new better day rises, just week ago a Polish Transsexual woman, my personal friend, was elected to Polish Parliament! Unheard of in the small backwards country which now doesn't seem backwards anymore. All in few months of time, the power of change is in us, right at out fingertips.

Rest assured I am not a Genuine Transsexual, NO, I am a mutt, I started in denial as a crossdresser at age 7, didn't know why I was doing it, but it felt so right and I just could not stop. I tried but could not stop! Then after lifetime of guilt and pain and regret I have resulted to suicide! It backfired and left me living this time though I knew who I was, undeniably and clearly.

So I know life from all the angles, male who didn't want to admit his DEFEAT and feminine side, The crossdresser with closet made of invisible matter (no one ever suspected) and Transsexaul woman, full of life and ecstatic to joy in the truth of self even though it hurts like hell from time to time.


So when I look at another crossdresser, YES the one who walks like a truck driver, the one who looks like she just got of the diesel locomotive, with neck as thick as her torso, and face mother could only love, I say to her: hi babe you look fantastic, come and join the party. I see in her the one who was lost not so long ago, who was laying to bad before falling a sleep and thought of waking up a princess, soft, feminine, vulnerable and real. Everyone arrives in the same bus to my party, even those who think roof is way cooler then inside.

Love Inna

[Vickie_CDTV]

If u enter a bar/meeting/etc. where u r a new comer, you're likely to get some flack no matter how fem u look or act! And, I would NOT suggest going to meet dressed CD/TSs in drab! Underdressing is pointless to some of us and u yourself r likely to feel uncomfortable if everyone else is dressed! I did that at the SCC my first nite and I knew a LOT of those girls before hand! After an hour, I had to go get dressed to feel part of the group!

I have the same problem. After 15+ years in the trans community and have had achieved a bit of notoriety (at least in my region), I still get grief whenever I am seen en drab at events.

Some have even had the gall to question whether I am not a "real" or "serious" crossdresser just because I occasionally "allow" myself to be seen en drab at community events. It is *really* old and I am tired of it. If I were a fisherman, would people look down on me just because they saw me occasionally without my waders and tacklebox?

[Michelia]

I am somewhat revolted by the dogmatism of some of the posts here. Some are obviously from people whose real life experience if very limited. I wish people would just speak for themselves and their own perspectives but not make statements covering all of us under their narrow feelings and views. And I am sorry to use the word "people" but I refuse to get dragged into this by anyone. There is a lot of BS in this thread.

I am a crossdresser and I am not less a person than anyone else. And I am transgender (whether you like it or not) and I work incessantly to promote understanding across the TG spectrum and improve our ties with our gay friends whom we need a heck of a lot more that they need us. It is painful for me to read threads like this that promote ideas that are contrary to the forces needed to pull
us all together.

I do want to clarify the Stonewall riots started over an incident involving drag queens. If we are to give history lessons, let's be specific and clear.

And yes, Donna, we can mix quite a bit. I have very good TS friends and they are the best of people. I can also say the same thing about my CD friends. And I can say that about quiet a few gay folks I know. None of my TS friends are ashamed of being seen with me. Nor do they feel superior to me. They have been very supportive and have helped me substantially. I know the world can be a better world than many of the views expressed in this thread depict.

If you were here before Katrina, the TG scene was very active. There were a lot of TG people living downtown and when they were hanging out in the quarter. It was their neighborhood. Most of these people were washed away by the storm and have never been able to return. New Orleans is now a much more expensive place than it was before the storm. The result is that most of the TS you will find in most of the TG bars are pros and some of these people are pretty skanky and the bars can be a bit dangerous. I would not go in them by myself.

If you want to go out when you come, let me know and I will be glad to come out with you and hang out at some of the nicer places. We might or might not meet some other girls. But do not expect a lot of TS folk out there. Most of the TSs that are my friends are just living their lives and are not hanging out in bars. But if we hit it off, I may be able to arrange some get together. Keep in mind most of them have partners (including me) and are not looking for romance. Most of them dress quite plainly, too.

If you want to venture out more and see some of the town I am open to that too. I am quite a good hostess and know and love the city ...and love to share it. But I will not go in drab with you anywhere (and less so to meet my friends) unless you are going to take me out on a date and take me out dancing!


INNA: I LOVE YOUR POST

[Bree-asaurus]

I think part of the conflict in this thread comes from using the term CD for dressing for purely non-gender reasons. Lots of bigendered or androgynous people who find themselves in the transgender spectrum do in fact use the term CD to describe themselves. I think the whole point of the term was to be more neutral and inclusive than words like transvestite, which carries too many connotations like pervert, exhibitionist, drag queen, etc.

Well they SHOULD use the word "transgender" to identify themselves. The term crossdresser means they identify with one gender but wear the cloths of another. If they partially identify with a gender other than their physical gender, they are not JUST crossdressers, or maybe not crossdressers at all, but are actually transgender.

Transgender, in my mind, is far more neutral than crossdresser and better defines who they are.

I am transexual and do not describe myself as a crossdresser because I am wearing the cloths of the gender that I identify as. I guess I am a crossdresser on occasion when I wear guy cloths when I'm horribly depressed and feel ugly as sin.

[*Vanessa*]

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I guess I am a crossdresser on occasion when I wear guy cloths when I'm horribly depressed and feel ugly as sin.

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Exactly !

So now do you want to meet me outside?

Cause I'm feel'n a little ugly tonight!

[sanderlay]

Can a CD really mix in with TG/TS socially?

I certainly hope so... or was there some memo I missed??? LOL

Seriously... We are all humans. We can socialize and meet anyone we wish. To say we can't sounds discriminatory to me. I'm all about breaking any old taboos saying this or that.

Now... with that said... I won't meet you in a dark ally for safety sake. We should remember to be street wise and cautious. There is safety in numbers. But I won't live in fear. I will live my life as I want and socialize with whom I please.

[Niya W]

Ok let's all kiss and make up :) Has the keys to the kissing room.

[Debglam]

Walks in and gets a headache. Were to start . I guess I never read the memo saying the TS and CD and gays can't socialize. Any one that has met me can tell you I have no problem socializing with CDs. I'm a member of DVG and the River city gems. There are TS there CD's all socializing in the same room. If you met Allie you'd know she will talk to any one :)

:yt: Preach on sister! And I don't think I've been to any of these group's events where anyone was ever asked what they are! Friends are friends, period.

To quote the lovely Bree, "CAN'T we all just get along?"