The future of SRS?

[JulieK1980]

An interesting article I just read about the discovery of a gene that determines sex. Apparently it isn't just determined at birth, but "maintains" maleness throughout the life span. Perhaps in another decade it will be possible to become "fully" female?


http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/07/21/Researchers_Discover_Sex_Change_Gene/


Just thought this was worth sharing. :)

[Zenith]

I worked with a group of reproductive biologists. One of them was studying DMRT-1. Small world...lol

["Mary"]

This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

[Melody Moore]

LOL, this was discovered about 3 years ago by Australian researchers:

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7689007.stm

Also see: http://www.princehenrys.org/sex-determination-gonadal-development-lab

[Kittie]

I get tired of seeing hateful comments and arguments directed at people in our community from people on the 'outside' on pages that involve gender identity. I sit in disbelief at the things some people post on the internet.

On topic, this news is interesting. :thumbsup:

[JulieK1980]

This is fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

Quite welcome! :)

Melody, Those links are fascinating, but they are two different areas of genetic research from what I posted. (This is even better because it's attacking it from both sides.)

[Melody Moore]

Jody these institutes are all collaborating in this research :D

[Zenith]

Here she is...used to use her cell culture hood and incubator all the time...lol

http://www.kumc.edu/physiology/heckert.html

[Starling]

How great it would be to live in a world where the mysteries of sex and gender were solved. If only I were a thousand years younger!

:heehee: Lallie

PS: I admit it's nice to have a scientific argument to answer the haters.

[Starling]

Here she is...

Cool, Jule.

:) Lallie

[Melody Moore]

And why are the authoritarians and academics so interested in this research nowadays?

Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (EDCs) that is why. Our governments are pouring millions into this
research after more and more evidence comes to light that male fertility rates are rapidly declining.
EDCs are also believed to be responsible for many other health issues, including intersex conditions
and we face one of the greatest threats to mankind if they don't come up with some type of solution.

Has anyone here seen the movie Children Of Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Men)? Don't laugh because this may soon become a reality.

See these links:

http://www.sensible-alternative.com.au/female-hormones/rise-of-infertility

http://lwa.gov.au/files/products/innovation/pn22054/pn22054.pdf

http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/301/m301p307.pdf

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1870

http://www.epa.gov/oppt/existingchemicals/pubs/actionplans/np-npe.html

http://www.waterworld.com/index/display/article-display/articles/waterworld/environmental0/water-pollution_prevention/2010/08/Water-contaminant-to-be-regulated.html

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2009/09/14/intersex_fish_in_rivers/

[Zenith]

Cool, Jule.

:) Lallie

And now you know what DMRT-1 stands for, (doublesex and mab-3 related transcription factor 1)...lol

[Zenith]

lol Melody...we were looking for a male contraceptive actually....:heehee:

[Anna Lorree]

I have read about the previous study of Foxl2, this article just ads more fuel to the idea of giving people the ability to become who they feel they need to be. Isn't science grand?

Anna

[Melody Moore]

Some how I don't think anyone anticipated a male contraceptive as effective as this one Julie :heehee:


I have read about the previous study of Foxl2, this article just ads more fuel to the idea of giving people the ability to become who they feel they need to be. Isn't science grand?

And at what cost?

I guess you have no idea what it's like to have been born intersex.

[Debglam]

And why are the authoritarians and academics so interested in this research nowadays?

Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals (EDCs) that is why.

Is DES considered an EDC?

[Melody Moore]

Is DES considered an EDC?

I think so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

[JulieK1980]

I have read about the previous study of Foxl2, this article just ads more fuel to the idea of giving people the ability to become who they feel they need to be. Isn't science grand?

Anna

My thoughts as well!! An amazing thought, isn't it?

Melody, I can't comment on your post, as I don't know enough about it...

[Josie M]

Getting late and I have to get to bed but this is really interesting stuff. My understanding is that SRS is not without health risks, wouldn't it be great if this could pave the way for a non-surgical therapy without those risks? (if I could fantasize for a bit...)

I'll have to read though all these links tomorrow :)

[Anna Lorree]

Some how I don't think anyone anticipated a male contraceptive as effective as this one Julie :heehee:



And at what cost?

I guess you have no idea what it's like to have been born intersex.

No, I am not intersexed. However, be assured my post wasn't intended to be offensive. Rather, I see this as another treatment that will allow transgendered people more choice in how they live their lives and present themselves to the world. More treatment options is in my view a very good thing for the patients involved. Remember that just because an option exists, that doesn't mean it is right for everybody. We must each decide for ourselves where we will go with our individual challenges.

Anna

[joanna4]

Glad you shared this.:)

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Interesting article but if the Dmrt1 gene is removed in an adult, the male cells in the testes become female cells and the testes show signs of becoming ovaries. I guess this is in the fetus development stage? How can it be used for adult transgendered and intersex people? Like will the testicles gradually develop into ovaries and move up into the body? Will the penis shrink to form a clitoris and like if some magic happens, an external opening occurs, a vagina is made and wow the pelvis changes shape to allow for carrying of a baby during fetal development? Like if this happens in reverse and for a FtM person the ovaries drop to form testicles and the vagina closes and the clitoris develops into a penis? Maybe one day in the 22nd century?


This discovery is a breakthrough for genetic researchers and may have implications for transgender and intersex individuals.
I only hope there are positive implications and not negative implications. Maybe it will allow for DNA testing at various stages to see if someone is/has lost male cells only to form female cells and so acceptable reasons for transitioning would be accepted. Like more lab rat testing, what next. Maybe it would become another stage in SRS that would somehow assist surgeons to advance them accomplishing more satisfaction in peoples transitioning. Maybe another stepping stone for transitioning people to step over on their way to seeking themselves as who nature actually intended. More processing intersections to stall the process? I wonder what will happen. I hope the researchers and the department get funding allocated so that they can continue to help. Whether the departments are in Australia, America, Europe, Asia, South America, who cares as long as it helps people to live some form of a happier life.

[JulieK1980]

Interesting article but if the Dmrt1 gene is removed in an adult, the male cells in the testes become female cells and the testes show signs of becoming ovaries. I guess this is in the fetus development stage? How can it be used for adult transgendered and intersex people? Like will the testicles gradually develop into ovaries and move up into the body? Will the penis shrink to form a clitoris and like if some magic happens, an external opening occurs, a vagina is made and wow the pelvis changes shape to allow for carrying of a baby during fetal development? Like if this happens in reverse and for a FtM person the ovaries drop to form testicles and the vagina closes and the clitoris develops into a penis? Maybe one day in the 22nd century?


I only hope there are positive implications and not negative implications. Maybe it will allow for DNA testing at various stages to see if someone is/has lost male cells only to form female cells and so acceptable reasons for transitioning would be accepted. Like more lab rat testing, what next. Maybe it would become another stage in SRS that would somehow assist surgeons to advance them accomplishing more satisfaction in peoples transitioning. Maybe another stepping stone for transitioning people to step over on their way to seeking themselves as who nature actually intended. More processing intersections to stall the process? I wonder what will happen. I hope the researchers and the department get funding allocated so that they can continue to help. Whether the departments are in Australia, America, Europe, Asia, South America, who cares as long as it helps people to live some form of a happier life.

Hard to say what exact effects it will have. It's not at all unlikely that we won't ultimately be able to transform a male into a female. After all within the next couple years or so open heart surgery is being replaced by stimulating the heart to alter itself to create new blood vessels. It's not all that difficult even with our limited knowledge to alter a person's cellular structure. While I'm sure a "magical" transformation is still decades away, in the short term it could very well become a safer, better alternative to HRT therapy. As I understand the research it appears to be conducted on adult animals, so it is not as a fetus. This gene apparently "keeps" us male. It's not just a trigger that makes us male.

[Frances]

I don't see this research as a validation of gender identities. It could be used to make men more male, not help them become more female. Unless gender identity stops being viewed as a mental disorder, people will do a lot of research to correct what they see as an aberration. Nobody researches why men feel like they are men. If it can ever be used to help trans people change sex, fine. Etiology research has always been used against us in history.

[Aprilrain]

At best I see this as an aid for HRT or a precursor to surgery since it is unlikely that adult genitalia will be able to switch sex without surgical intervention. Even if this were possible the amount of time required to completely shift from male to female would likely be undesirably long. If however they could cause the testicles to produce estrogen like ovaries that would be quite cool and would eliminate the need for life long estrogen use. Of course they'd have to find room for them inside!

[Starling]

There's so much we don't know about even the most basic cell functions. The genetics I studied in college is mostly useless now, especially for geneticists.

Given that our bodies no longer have a single cell they were born with, why couldn't our sexual physiology change--as it already does when we grow and when we age, for instance--if the biochemical mechanism and a method to control it were discovered?

:) Lallie

[Starling]

...Of course they'd have to find room for [the testicles] inside!

There's plenty of room in the fuselage for the landing gear to retract.

:heehee: Lallie

[JulieK1980]

There's plenty of room in the fuselage for the landing gear to retract.

:heehee: Lallie

True, like that empty spot in every man, that would have held ovaries had they gotten another x chromosome? LOL

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Giggles at LALady, never thought of myself being an aeroplane. I guess I could be a large cargo plane with a bulge in the middle or a sleek jet. I do have a landing strip though :)

[Starling]

I used the aircraft metaphor because April is a pilot, Tania, so I can't take too much credit for originality. BTW you lost me on "landing strip." I'm not sure I'd want to know what that might be.

:heehee: Lallie

[Josie M]

Some how I don't think anyone anticipated a male contraceptive as effective as this one Julie :heehee:
...

I've heard that being a rabid Star Trek fan is pretty good birth control for males as well ;)

[JulieK1980]

I've heard that being a rabid Star Trek fan is pretty good birth control for males as well ;)

That is a logical conclusion.

[Aprilrain]

I used the aircraft metaphor because April is a pilot, Tania, so I can't take too much credit for originality. BTW you lost me on "landing strip." I'm not sure I'd want to know what that might be.

:heehee: Lallie

I did appreciate the metaphor, thank you!

[Melody Moore]

And you will need a pretty big landing strip to land the USS Enterprise April

Meanwhile we can only dream of such things :heehee:

[Jorja]

And you will need a pretty big landing strip to land the USS Enterprise April

Meanwhile we can only dream of such things :heehee:

Don't they space dock the USS Enterprise?

[Melody Moore]

Come on Jorga, where is your sense of humour today?

I have just pirated the USS Enterprise, I just need April's help to pilot it now :tongue:

[Aprilrain]

My pilots certificate is good for single engine land plane, weighing less than 12,500 LBS. I'm pretty sure the enterprise has 2 engines (4 maybe? There were the "impulse engines" and the "warp drives" not sure if the "warp drives" are like turbo or superchargers on the "impulse engines" or if they are there own separate entities. Hmm? I think we really need to get tot the bottom of this!) I suppose the "weight" would be subject to change since weight is gravity dependent, W=Mg. Perhaps they should use mass instead and include inertia, wouldn't want to run into that space dock now would we!
Anyway since the Enterprise dosen't have wings it doesn't need to move along the ground to build up enough speed to generate lift making a runway unnecessary. In the last movie you see them building the enterprise somewhere out on the prarie, we are led to believe it's Iowa since that is where Kirk is supposedly from. The conclusion I draw from this is that these craft are able to overcome the acceleration due to gravity, -9.80m per/s2 on earth, with some technology that is not even imaginable in 2011.

No I'm not a Treky I'm just a geek : )

[Jorja]

The conclusion I draw from this is that these craft are able to overcome the acceleration due to gravity, -9.80m per/s2 on earth, with some technology that is not even imaginable in 2011.

No I'm not a Treky I'm just a geek : )

But then..... neither was the two way communication device...... I mean cell phone just a few short years ago.

[Melody Moore]

Anyway since the Enterprise dosen't have wings it doesn't need to move along the ground to build up enough speed to generate lift making a runway unnecessary.

But tell me April since you are such a geek, how would you propose to land USS Enterprise?
Even if it was VTOL, we would still need a fairly big landing space to park that baby up hun.

So either way I think we still need a very big landing strip ;)

[Aprilrain]

But tell me April since you are such a geek, how would you propose to land USS Enterprise?
Even if it was VTOL, we would still need a fairly big landing space to park that baby up hun.

So either way I think we still need a very big landing strip ;)

I'm pretty sure the landing fees would keep that thing up in space where it belongs! Its probably bigger than the biggest airports anyway!

What did they use for fuel? i can't imagine what it would cost to fill that baby up!

Anyway Jorja radio was nothing new in the 60s. turning radio-waves into discrete point to point communication was a pretty neat way to make some money though huh?

[JulieK1980]

My pilots certificate is good for single engine land plane, weighing less than 12,500 LBS. I'm pretty sure the enterprise has 2 engines (4 maybe? There were the "impulse engines" and the "warp drives" not sure if the "warp drives" are like turbo or superchargers on the "impulse engines" or if they are there own separate entities. Hmm? I think we really need to get tot the bottom of this!) I suppose the "weight" would be subject to change since weight is gravity dependent, W=Mg. Perhaps they should use mass instead and include inertia, wouldn't want to run into that space dock now would we!
Anyway since the Enterprise dosen't have wings it doesn't need to move along the ground to build up enough speed to generate lift making a runway unnecessary. In the last movie you see them building the enterprise somewhere out on the prarie, we are led to believe it's Iowa since that is where Kirk is supposedly from. The conclusion I draw from this is that these craft are able to overcome the acceleration due to gravity, -9.80m per/s2 on earth, with some technology that is not even imaginable in 2011.

No I'm not a Treky I'm just a geek : )

Time to remove all doubt that I am a nerd:

The enterprise is powered by two warp nacelles, (each being a separate warp matrix)
It has a separate impulse engine
Also available is "maneuvering thrusters" (Also the only one of the three engines that operates at sub-light speed.)

Originally the show didn't allow for these ships to enter an atmosphere, however this changed in Star Trek Voyager where the Voyager repeatedly, is seen entering and landing on multiple planets. As well as the scene in the most recent Star Trek remake where we see the Enterprise being built on the ground.

[jennifer easton]

the way I heard it was the angle of the dangle is directly affected by the heat of the meat, and the mass of the A$$ now what this all has to do with the topic of the original thread I have no idea but some how it was pirated off on Starr trek.

[Jorja]

I'm pretty sure the landing fees would keep that thing up in space where it belongs! Its probably bigger than the biggest airports anyway!

What did they use for fuel? i can't imagine what it would cost to fill that baby up!

Anyway Jorja radio was nothing new in the 60s. turning radio-waves into discrete point to point communication was a pretty neat way to make some money though huh?

But you couldn't get the internet on a radio.

[Mikaela]

Keep in mind that warp nacelles create a single warp bubble.

BTW, I have my DNA sequenced. I show 70 SNPs for DMRT1 on chromosome 9. No clue if there's anything in there that screams CD.
Note that 23andme does not determine IS and I have no reason to believe I am.

[Starling]

Mikaela, if I might ask, how much did DNA sequencing cost? Don't say I can't afford it!

:) Lallie

PS: I'm sure one answer would be, "twice as much in LA as anywhere else in the US."

[Mikaela]

You can get it done for $99 + $9 a month for a year for their service which continually updates your account with new discoveries.
With no commitment, it's $399.

But I got it cheaper because on National DNA Day (April 25th), they ran a special where you didn't have to pay the initial $99, just $16 for the processing kit + the 9 bucks a month for a year. Maybe they will do it again next year.

They came down A LOT in the past 2 years. They used to charge about $500 if you wanted the combined ancestry and health profiles.

23andme.com

[Starling]

Had I known April 25 was DNA day, I would have worn jeans.

:heehee: Lallie

[Monica]

I don't see this research as a validation of gender identities. It could be used to make men more male, not help them become more female. Unless gender identity stops being viewed as a mental disorder, people will do a lot of research to correct what they see as an aberration. Nobody researches why men feel like they are men. If it can ever be used to help trans people change sex, fine. Etiology research has always been used against us in history.

I could hardly have said it better. In this society my gender identity is called a gender disorder. I see it as a gift. The society vision of a cure would likely be a curse to me.

This is a kind of knowledge would have the potential could help a lot of people. Unfortunately, it more often than not goes the other way.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Where do I volunteer?

[JulieK1980]

I could hardly have said it better. In this society my gender identity is called a gender disorder. I see it as a gift. The society vision of a cure would likely be a curse to me.

This is a kind of knowledge would have the potential could help a lot of people. Unfortunately, it more often than not goes the other way.

This research isn't based on finding a "cure" it is actually a possible future way to alter a persons gender.

[Maddie22]

I wonder if this could be a replacement for HRT. Where altering the cells to female cells would reproduce natural estrogen and testosterone blockers. I do not have a very scientific mind, so maye I'm off (I was a communication major).

I also wonder whether this could be used to align our minds with our current bodies. Where as now we look to align our bodies with our minds. I hope this makes sense.

[Josie M]

Oh...the Star Trek geekery I have wrought..... ;)

[Rianna Humble]

I wonder if this could be a replacement for HRT. Where altering the cells to female cells would reproduce natural estrogen and testosterone blockers. I do not have a very scientific mind, so maybe I'm off (I was a communication major).

Like you, I am not a scientist, but my reading of the article was that this could at least help with the changes currently produced by HRT. I was not clear whether there was any intended suggestion that we could do away with HRT completely in the future.


I also wonder whether this could be used to align our minds with our current bodies. Where as now we look to align our bodies with our minds. I hope this makes sense.

It seems to me that this is what one or two of the posters fear as a potential side-effect of the research. As I read it, this was genetically altering something on the physical level not on the mental level, but I could be wrong.

[jillleanne]

And now you know what DMRT-1 stands for, (doublesex and mab-3 related transcription factor 1)...lol

Well, that's easy for you to say. I think the main problem with that hypothesis however is no one has considered the effects of adjusting the main giggling pin on the right laughing shaft.

[Jorja]

You all can relax. My gender changing machine will be up and operating soon. Damn, another toad! Well, back to the drawing. board

[JulieK1980]

You all can relax. My gender changing machine will be up and operating soon. Damn, another toad! Well, back to the drawing. board


Was it at least a female toad? Then all would not be lost....

[Melody Moore]

Was talking to a FtM transsexual the other day, and we were talking about how
great it would have been just to be able to swap bodies. Is the this future of SRS?

[JulieK1980]

The brain is nearly the only organ modern medicine is unable to transplant from person to person. Who knows what will be the case in another 10, 20, 30 years down the road.

[Starling]

I don't see any chance of a physical brain transplant, but I could envision a transfer of information.

:) Lallie

[Jorja]

Was it at least a female toad? Then all would not be lost....

No, it was a guy I was trying to change to female. Wrong sex, wrong species again!

[JulieK1980]

No, it was a guy I was trying to change to female. Wrong sex, wrong species again!

Damn! Well, keep us posted on your progress! :P