Bisexuality & Crossdressing

[sarac]

I tried to stay away from responding here mostly I find I say the wrong thing. I just recently messages a few girls in regards to this topic before it was on here. Thank you for your replies as well. My first time out with a guy was about a year ago. It was I wanted to feel how it was on a date as Sara. I had a great time, much more then if I was in boy mode. Being alone with him I felt kind of a liberation, hard to explain. At the end of the evening he kissed me and I found I responded which later I found how confused I was. Since then and more recently I have been out with a man I've been seeing for a month or so. It has changed me or maybe I was always this way and afraid to act on it or subpressed it. He is the most fun and I feel so relaxed with him. We have kissed and very slight sexually, but I do think about it with him . At times I find it's not fair to him to not be or do what he may want. I'm told by other girls not to act on it, until I'm sure.

So anyway back to the topic I never thought I was bi or gay or what labels are put on it. I'm sure what ever it is I was always like this and Sara has brought it out and it is me. I'm not so experienced with men but I'm most relaxed , comfortable, and fun as Sara with a man.

So anyway I'm glad I put my two cents out here. I read all your posts and since here go back and read old ones as well and you all have been so great and helpful for me. Thank you all.

One very last thing that Reine said that I too wonder about is why a girl gets so sexy in dressing and makeup and when she attracts a man, she is insulted.. She must see she will attract men. Anyway thanks again all of you.

Love Sarac

[anna36b]

I would label myself (and I hate labels) as a very bi cd/tv girl. My first sexual experiences were with girls when I was in my teens, and I enjoyed that very much. I also enjoyed dressing pretty beginning at 10yrs old or so with my sister’s lingerie. I began buying some of my own lingerie at about 13 or so. I remember buying my first teenform bra at Dillard’s in the young junior dept. I also began buying panties and camisoles and half slips too. I was hooked. As I continued to dress more and more and every chance I got, I began to wonder what it would be like to be a girl/woman in every sense of the word.

As I continued to dress more and more, I began communicating and meeting with others like me who dressed. My “first” as to a guy or cd/tv meeting happened when I was 19 and he was mid 40’s. I know. save it…he took advantage of me, used me…blah, blah. I was nervous, excited and everything else that goes with it. We got together to dress up in lingerie together. I dressed fully as a fem and he in just bra/panty slip and stockings and light make up. It was a great experience. I was young but ready to experience things as a woman would. I wanted the full fem experience….and I got it.

He was gentle and kind. We started by just dressing together (he enjoyed me modeling lingerie outfits for him), then he asked me a lot of questions, like had I thought of becoming a woman full time, when I started dressing, what kind of fantasies I had, what I thought about being and doing with a guy. I was honest and told him I identified more with the female role. He wanted me to have the female experience that I thought about for so long, and I wanted it. The relationship quickly moved to a sexual one, and I was willing and wouldn’t change anything. He taught me/instructed me on how to best please a man sexually. I learned to become a submissive woman to him. I did this all as a fully dressed woman. I would meet with him frequently after our first meeting and it was great fun. I will never forget how fem and girly I felt dressed as a pretty fem and addressing his needs, and how much of a woman that made me feel like. There is nothing like it.

[seanmuscle]

I would label myself (and I hate labels) as a very bi cd/tv girl. My first sexual experiences were with girls when I was in my teens, and I enjoyed that very much. I also enjoyed dressing pretty beginning at 10yrs old or so with my sister’s lingerie. I began buying some of my own lingerie at about 13 or so. I remember buying my first teenform bra at Dillard’s in the young junior dept. I also began buying panties and camisoles and half slips too. I was hooked. As I continued to dress more and more and every chance I got, I began to wonder what it would be like to be a girl/woman in every sense of the word.

As I continued to dress more and more, I began communicating and meeting with others like me who dressed. My “first” as to a guy or cd/tv meeting happened when I was 19 and he was mid 40’s. I know. save it…he took advantage of me, used me…blah, blah. I was nervous, excited and everything else that goes with it. We got together to dress up in lingerie together. I dressed fully as a fem and he in just bra/panty slip and stockings and light make up. It was a great experience. I was young but ready to experience things as a woman would. I wanted the full fem experience….and I got it.

He was gentle and kind. We started by just dressing together (he enjoyed me modeling lingerie outfits for him), then he asked me a lot of questions, like had I thought of becoming a woman full time, when I started dressing, what kind of fantasies I had, what I thought about being and doing with a guy. I was honest and told him I identified more with the female role. He wanted me to have the female experience that I thought about for so long, and I wanted it. The relationship quickly moved to a sexual one, and I was willing and wouldn’t change anything. He taught me/instructed me on how to best please a man sexually. I learned to become a submissive woman to him. I did this all as a fully dressed woman. I would meet with him frequently after our first meeting and it was great fun. I will never forget how fem and girly I felt dressed as a pretty fem and addressing his needs, and how much of a woman that made me feel like. There is nothing like it.

That is amazing. Wish there were more girls like you out there

[AimeeCD]

I considered myself bi-curious, that is, until I met a guy for coffee who said he was interested in me as a CD. We started going on dates, really just coffee at the mall, but with me underdressed to the maximum and the occasional mascara and light lip gloss. After he took me shopping at Victoria's Secret I knew I was getting to a point of no return and a date or two later, we started with foreplay. I felt totally like a teenaged schoolgirl, but had absolutely no regrets. Eventually, our dates became meets at a hotel where we would sleep together and even now we meet every other month or so with him as the man and I as his woman. I wouldn't change a thing; it's exciting, fulfilling to be the woman in the relationship and everything I have dreamed of as a CD. No doubt about it, I was bi-curious at first and now I know I'm fully bi:) I enjoy being the woman in and out of my dress:)

[JeniferMN]

Of Coarse!!!!!! your not an oddball in my view. :)

[CONSUELO]

I have been a crossdresser for most of my life and I am bi-sexual also. When dressed en femme I like to have relations with men. Strangely, I am not particularly attracted to men and do not find myself admiring men when I see them in public or in any other venue for that matter. I find that women are attractive and I admire a well dressed and well groomed woman. I have never understood this and would be interested in others opinions.

[fullbrief1]

I suppose I am Bi too if bi means aroused by the oppasit sex, because I do get sexually stimulated seeing guys in panties and other lingerie and of coarse I like it too. I just have no desire for intercourse with anyone besides my wife.

[Leana]

When I am dressed I absolutely adore men, I will make a fool of myself and like to act out the role of female completely. However, when back as a male, I can take 'em or leave 'em. I'll look occasionally, but that's it.

Weird huh?

[busker]

Why would a CDer who is not into men, dress to attract them as if he was? :strugglin

Isn't that the ultimate passibility test. A male drooling over the "virtual" woman that he isn't ever going to have? If Drushin can get a guy hotter than a pistol at the OK Corral, apparently she passes---big time and in style. That's like a hole-in-one (no pun intended).

" Short skirt or dress, long panty-hosed legs, big breast forms, long wig, tall heels, perfumed, talkative, standing with my legs apart. " (and six-shooter in a side holdster). This reminds me of a Jane Russell pose. That would be "smokin' hot" from a males perspective.

[Momarie]

As a GG, I find this very confusing.

I just wish if you want to be with men, you would just own it.

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.

[Jenniferathome]

As a GG, I find this very confusing.

I just wish if you want to be with men, you would just own it.

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.

THANK YOU! I couldn't agree more. Men who want to be with men, regardless of their attire, are gay. Clothing doesn't make one gay, genetics does. This nonsense debate is killing me, and yet I continue it.

[silow]

I also find I want a man when I'm dressed up. But It goes deeper than that for me. I want it all. I want to be a women top to bottom. And know all the right things to turn him on and rock his world, make his day and night. So I guess that makes me gay. But when I do end up with a man I'll do my best so he'll remenbers me.

[whowhatwhen]

As a GG, I find this very confusing.

I just wish if you want to be with men, you would just own it.

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.

Except it doesn't work that way, if it did this thread wouldn't exist.
For BI guys it might be simple inhibition loosening, coming out as 100% gay isn't going to change anything.

[ReineD]

Isn't that the ultimate passibility test. A male drooling over the "virtual" woman that he isn't ever going to have? If Drushin can get a guy hotter than a pistol at the OK Corral, apparently she passes---big time and in style. That's like a hole-in-one (no pun intended).

" Short skirt or dress, long panty-hosed legs, big breast forms, long wig, tall heels, perfumed, talkative, standing with my legs apart. " (and six-shooter in a side holdster). This reminds me of a Jane Russell pose. That would be "smokin' hot" from a males perspective.

This may seem like male-bashing (even though it's not), but a GG friend of mine told me a joke some years ago that I laughed at. She said, "If you want to get a guy, make it red and make it big". lol

In other words, guys (according to this dictum) don't discriminate. They don't look at the finer details ... as long as it's red and it's big (or in your example, short skirt, long legs, big boobs, long hair). It could be the ugliest GG, or even a CD who looks like a guy, but as long as they have the boobs, the hair, the legs, and the skirt, AND it's red (lol), he'll be interested .... provided of course that she (or he) puts herself out there like a carrot.

If I were a CDer intent on being seen as an alluring woman, I would not feel flattered attracting the attention of a guy who doesn't see my female self and who doesn't care that I'm a guy, but instead is attracted to the skirt, the legs, the boobs, and the hair that anyone can put on. :rolleyes:




I also find I want a man when I'm dressed up. But It goes deeper than that for me. I want it all. I want to be a women top to bottom. And know all the right things to turn him on and rock his world, make his day and night. So I guess that makes me gay. But when I do end up with a man I'll do my best so he'll remenbers me.

Just make it red and make it big, and put yourself out there like a carrot. You'll do just fine! :)

[JulieK1980]

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.

What would you prefer I call it? I'm bisexual. I like men AND women. That IS the term for it.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I just wish if you want to be with men, you would just own it.

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.




THANK YOU! I couldn't agree more. Men who want to be with men, regardless of their attire, are gay. Clothing doesn't make one gay, genetics does. This nonsense debate is killing me, and yet I continue it.

What judgmental, blanket statements from both of you. I too get my eyebrows arched at the "only want to be with men while dressed" argument, I think there's some denial or compartmentalizing happening there possibly. However, to dismiss someone calling themselves bi or bi-curious as candy-coating it, or completely dismissing them with blanket statements that they are gay, is frankly so limited a mindset that I can't believe I just stumbled upon it here in a forum for transgendered issues where we should all be a little above that.

Bisexuality exists, and people who identify as bisexual are owning up to their sexuality by identifying as such. They're not candy coating it, they're self-identifying. To dismiss their sexuality as being simply unable to own up to being homosexual is just not fair. If someone is comfortable and happy with how they identify and they're honest about it and not hurting or betraying someone who cares about them, who are you to come on here and say that it's nonsense.



If I were a CDer intent on being seen as an alluring woman, I would not feel flattered attracting the attention of a guy who doesn't see my female self and who doesn't care that I'm a guy, but instead is attracted to the skirt, the legs, the boobs, and the hair that anyone can put on. :rolleyes:

I think you're really hitting the nail on the head here Reine. I personally don't get dressed up with the intention of being picked up by men, but I have gotten it occasionally if I go to a "trans night" type thing that attracts admirers, or when I posed for the pictures I mentioned in a previous post. There's a moment where it feels kind of nice but it is fleeting, because my brain quickly reminds me that the attraction isn't to me or because I've passed and fooled anyone, but it's purely objectification of me as a "t-girl." I never feel like they see the woman in me, I always feel like they see the man dressed as a woman and that's their attraction. It makes me feel fairly empty about it.

[Badtranny]

Shocker, RD nailed it again. Men objectify women, that's not news but men objectify everything so a hot looking CD is no different than a hot looking motorcycle or whatever. Every guy that had ever been interested in me has been under no illusions that I was a GG. They knew, they just didn't care and I'm waaaaaaaay more passable than the average CD for sure. How is a part time CD going to pass up close? Believe me ladies, they know.

Momarie is not denying bisexuality, she's just pointing out the silliness of a closet queen trying to justify her attraction to men. It's the chorus of the "I'm straight except" crowd. They label themselves (straight) and then whine about being labeled when someone points out that they may not be straight. The truth is, nobody cares if you swing both ways. I feel like we owe it to each other to call BS on bogus justifications because it's not cool to let somebody you care about just continue to fool themselves. We should always be working towards open honesty or what's the point of the forum?

This forum is overwhelmingly closeted and conservative as far as I can tell and that's not the best combo for openness and self acceptance, but that doesn't mean it's any less important.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Momarie is not denying bisexuality, she's just pointing out the silliness of a closet queen trying to justify her attraction to men. It's the chorus of the "I'm straight except" crowd. They label themselves (straight) and then whine about being labeled when someone points out that they may not be straight. The truth is, nobody cares if you swing both ways. I feel like we owe it to each other to call BS on bogus justifications because it's not cool to let somebody you care about just continue to fool themselves. We should always be working towards open honesty or what's the point of the forum?
.

Well, please recall I quoted two people there and not just Momarie, so some of what I was saying applied to Jenniferathome who did say that if a man was attracted to another man he was gay, and thus was disregarding bisexuality. However, Momarie also listed Bi as the first example of what in her words are candy coating labels. So she either chose very poor wording in trying to get her real point across, or she was saying that someone calling themselves bi is candy coating and not owning up to their own attractions.

Either way, it deserved to be called out, imho. I think there's a very big difference though in what you are saying in your post here, which I agree with, and how she phrased her post and how the response that I also quoted ran with the point. She used three terms before she got to the point you're making.

[Momarie]

[QUOTE=JiveTurkeyOnRye;2758266]What judgmental, blanket statements from both of you. I too get my eyebrows arched at the "only want to be with men while dressed" argument, I think there's some denial or compartmentalizing happening there possibly. However, to dismiss someone calling themselves bi or bi-curious as candy-coating it, or completely dismissing them with blanket statements that they are gay, is frankly so limited a mindset that I can't believe I just stumbled upon it here in a forum for transgendered issues where we should all be a little above that.


Please listen...

I am just saying whatever you are, own it.
When one isn't honest with themselves, it is harmful to them and sometimes hurtful to others.

I don't care who is what and I doubt anyone else does either.
If you're attracted to men, so what?
Have fun and enjoy it, give yourself permission to be who and exactly what you are.

P.S.
"What judgmental, blanket statements from both of you"
I don't think I deserved that.

[JulieK1980]

I don't care who is what and I doubt anyone else does either.
If you're attracted to men, so what?
Have fun and enjoy it, give yourself permission to be who and exactly what you are.



Apparently you do care who is what. Otherwise, you wouldn't be upset about "candycoated" labels. However, I daresay I can't label myself any more clearly than bisexual. (Which you claim is a candycoated label) I'm not gay, since I like women, and I'm not straight, since I like men. Perhaps you could clarify what label I should assign myself that is accurate and not candycoated.

I think what bugged me, is that your statement implies that there is only straight or gay. That sort of negates my existence. (and no you don't deserve to be called judgemental) but, some clarity on your statement would be helpful.

I certainly "own" who I am, and in fact I do so quite bluntly when someone questions my sexuality.

[Raven Tripp]

Sexuality is fluid. I identify as bi, but my biggest attraction is to other CD's. To choose between women or men depends on who we're talking about but also my "mood" (if you will). I detect a note of "fear" by some members about whether or not they might be gay or bi. I find that a little surprising. Liberation means not allowing the dominant (white male het ) paradigm to govern our true feelings! I'm trying everyday! Also could someone clear up for me: I thought GG meant genetic girl? But reading a post here it seems like it means something else. Thanks. And thanks for being here! Alone-ness is sometimes difficult.

[Momarie]

As a GG, I find this very confusing.

I just wish if you want to be with men, you would just own it.

And quit calling it so many candy-coated labels...bi, bi-curious, male lesbian, I only want/desire/crave/am attracted to men when dressed etc.


Heteroflexible
Trisexual
Bicurious
Pansexual
Bigaystraightual
Male lesbian
Sweetsexual
Asexual
Heterogender

To clarify to Jive Turkey & JodyCD on how this can be confusing.
Please don't deliberately misinterpet my meaning, there is no need to invent controversary, when plainly none was intended.

[JulieK1980]

Heteroflexible

Please don't deliberately misinterpet my meaning, there is no need to invent controversary, when plainly none was intended.

On the contrary. I'm not attempting to misinterpret anything or invent controversy. I'm trying to understand what is wrong with my sexual identification of bisexual. Clearly I am missing what you are trying to say, that's why I said you didn't deserve to be called judgemental, and asked for clarification. I'm just trying to figure out how referring to myself as bisexual, I am somehow sugarcoating it. It's a statement of who I am. I'm not at all implying that you see things black and white as only gay or straight, I stated, that it appeared that way in your statement, and asked for clarification.

[whowhatwhen]

Bicurious, pansexual, and asexual are all valid though.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling anyone out.

PS:
I'm ultraliberal, nobodies heart bleeds like mine. :P

[Badtranny]

Sheesh, let's ease up on Momarie. Maybe she didn't make her point very well, but I understood her. She isn't targeting Bisexual people, she's merely calling out those people who openly express non straight desires while still professing to be straight. That's all. The people that identify as bisexual are not making excuses for who they are, but the people who identify as "straight except when..." are definitely not smelling the coffee.

There's a million ways to express your sexuality but can we all agree that one is either straight or not straight?

[whowhatwhen]

Aye.
Tis' a sore spot for a lot and especially confusing.

But yeah, the more "straight" you say you are the less straight you actually are.
I remember buying into that whole "raaarrrrghhh! REAL MEN DO (x)" until I realized it was just internalized homophobia, then I evened out and stopped pretending.

Feels nice not to fake masculinity, not that I'm overtly effeminate but I don't feel "forced" to put up a fake front either.
I suspect a lot of men are the same way, "manliness" just being a way to hide internalized homophobia.

Sometimes I wish I was 100% gay though, finding a partner would be a helluva lot easier than trying to explain CD and not wanting the male role in bed.

[Sophie_C]

Going back to the overall calling this or that, I really think it doesn't serve any purpose. Especially when people are figuring things out, being boxed in by a label is the WORST thing you can do to yourself. I would not be surprised if a number of "gay" men are actually bi to a degree, but once they've got that label, women are a permanent "no-no" and they're boxed out of that, just like a lot of bi men have to not talk about one side of themselves, since bi currently means "not accepting that they're gay yet" to most people in the US.

Just be yourself, be monogamous and whatever happens, happens.

[Miriam-J]

I'm reminded of a scene from the movie "Kinsey" about the authors of the Kinsey Reports. In the scene, Alfred Kinsey expresses that he's found that everyone can fit their sexual proclivities on a numeric scale from totally straight to totally homosexual. Most people, if totally honest, fit somewhere between the extremes - in other words, bisexuality is pretty darned normal. In recent years it has become much more acceptable for young people to admit this, but it's still rare in those of us who are 50+. I've been involved in activities where girl-girl action is just fine, but guys have to be careful to avoid even casual contact - very silly, and apparently just because of artificial limits imposed by our society and upbringing. These biases are deeply ingrained in me as well, but I'm beginning to recognize them and appreciate them for what they are.

The parallels with crossdressing are clear as well. We have preconceived notions that girls can dress like guys, but guys can't dress as girls. This is reinforced harshly by society, so those of us who like to accept the natural freedoms live in fear of the many who will be intolerant.

Reality sucks sometimes, but it's still reality. Society seems to be softening more rapidly on sexuality than on crossdressing, but perhaps that will follow - until the next reactionary cycle.

Is our sexuality influenced by how we dress. I don't think so, but don't presume to be all knowing. I suspect that our willingness to buck societal pressure in one arena makes us more willing to go against the flow in the other. In other words, crossdressing could establish the right frame of mind for us to accept our innate bisexual tendencies.

Miriam

[SFRobin]

The people that identify as bisexual are not making excuses for who they are, but the people who identify as "straight except when..." are definitely not smelling the coffee.

There's a million ways to express your sexuality but can we all agree that one is either straight or not straight?

I think that Melissa sums it up well. There pretty much is yes or no.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

To clarify to Jive Turkey & JodyCD on how this can be confusing.
Please don't deliberately misinterpet my meaning, there is no need to invent controversary, when plainly none was intended.

So, let me understand this. The more plausible thing is that I came to a thread that was already 10+ pages deep, saw your post and thought, "hey why not find a way to respond to this spinning it in a negative way that will really shake things up?" as opposed to, you perhaps didn't state your point in the way that you meant it?

In your other response to me, you said you didn't deserve what I'd said. Perhaps not, I did concede to badtranny that perhaps you didn't word your post the way you intended it. However, you can't make that point and then turn around and accuse me of purposefully spinning it to create controversy. Fairness is a two way street.

The crazy thing here is that I actually agree with half of the point you're trying to make, this here:


I am just saying whatever you are, own it.
When one isn't honest with themselves, it is harmful to them and sometimes hurtful to others.

^^^I 100% agree with. Where I'm still having a little difficulty understanding or agreeing with you is when you take your position on some of these terms, specifically, pansexual, bisexual, bicurious, and asexual. You say own it, be who you are. And yet then the people who identify with these terms you say are candy coating it? But aren't these terms by definition owning who they are?

I'm not going to lie, some of these I've never heard of, and if they came up in this thread I missed them somewhere in these 12 pages, such as Sweetsexual, which I even just googled and found no results for, and bigaystraightual, which I googled and found only one result which was from this forum and was clearly intended as a joke, even including the term "hehe." Trisexual from my experience has always been a bit of a tongue in cheek joke as well, as in "I'll try anything once."

I could break down all of them in such a way but I won't; the point I'm getting at is this: aren't these all examples of someone essentially saying, no I'm not really straight, I do have other attractions and here's how I define them? Isn't that owning it? Isn't that being honest with themselves at least to some degree more than saying "I'm totally straight but I'm attracted to men when I crossdress" is? I think so.

[JulieK1980]

Sheesh, let's ease up on Momarie. Maybe she didn't make her point very well, but I understood her. She isn't targeting Bisexual people, she's merely calling out those people who openly express non straight desires while still professing to be straight. That's all. The people that identify as bisexual are not making excuses for who they are, but the people who identify as "straight except when..." are definitely not smelling the coffee.

There's a million ways to express your sexuality but can we all agree that one is either straight or not straight?

Perhaps it's a sensitive topic to me, (I get tired of hearing, "you're not bi, you're just gay and in denial") It irritates me, when other people try to define my sexuality for me, as though they can reach into the inner recesses of my brain and pluck out information that I somehow missed. Nope. I can read my own mind thanks. Sort of the same as those that decide to tell me whether I'm a CD or TS. I can't figure it out for myself, how the heck is someone that isn't me supposed to know? But, I suppose you are right, and I shouldn't read to much into Momarie's statements, and I do think I get her point in reference to those that say, "I'm straight except when..."

and certainly, I agree with you that one is either straight or not straight.

[whowhatwhen]

Perhaps it's a sensitive topic to me, (I get tired of hearing, "you're not bi, you're just gay and in denial") It irritates me, when other people try to define my sexuality for me, as though they can reach into the inner recesses of my brain and pluck out information that I somehow missed. Nope. I can read my own mind thanks. Sort of the same as those that decide to tell me whether I'm a CD or TS. I can't figure it out for myself, how the heck is someone that isn't me supposed to know? But, I suppose you are right, and I shouldn't read to much into Momarie's statements, and I do think I get her point in reference to those that say, "I'm straight except when..."

and certainly, I agree with you that one is either straight or not straight.

You know what's funny about that?
It's always spun as you being gay, no one ever questions if you're straight or not.

"BI? Are you sure you aren't just a confused straight?"

[ReineD]

There's a million ways to express your sexuality but can we all agree that one is either straight or not straight?

That seems as if it should be easy enough. lol

I also see Momarie's point. I have a hard time with, "I'm straight, except when ..." :p

I love this very basic approach: "I am attracted to (pick one): opposite sex, same sex, both, neither, myself.

[AussiegirlCD]

An interesting thread indeed! The one thing that seems clear about sexuality is that there's nothing clear about sexuality. I couldn't care less about a label, I sometimes like to **** guys, I also like to **** genetic girls, but then I consider a ts/tg/cd to be the gender they aspire to, so if I sleep with a mtf and I condider myself a girl, am I a lesbian???... oh the tangled webs we weave for our own entrapment!
Enjoy yourself regardless of someone else's perceptions of conformity, you are all beautiful, brave, admirable people, who have acknowledged your desire to define your own identity in the face of society and it's pointless gender roles, that alone is worth a pat on the back, it's your life, cd/ts/tg/tv/mtf/ftm/omg, don't be an acronym, be yourself and tell the haters/knockers to f*@k themselves!

Love,
Pheobe <3

[ReineD]

... but then I consider a ts/tg/cd to be the gender they aspire to, so if I sleep with a mtf and I condider myself a girl, am I a lesbian???...

This would be a same-sex attraction. You'd be attracted to "both" if you are also into GGs, in the "opposite-sex, same-sex, both, neither, or myself" array of possible choices outlined in the post above yours.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I also see Momarie's point. I have a hard time with, "I'm straight, except when ..." :p



I want to reiterate, this isn't what I was disagreeing with. I also see this point. And agree with it, and have said so!

She made a second, and in my opinion, separate point, and that was the point I was disagreeing with.

Point One: Own up to your sexuality, be honst with your self, Don't say "I'm straight, except...." Agreed!

Point Two: Don't candy coat your sexuality with terms like Bi, bicurious, pansexual, asexual, trisexual, obviouslyajokesexual Strongly Disagree!

[ReineD]

I also agree that being bi is not candy coating. There really are people who are attracted to both genders.

But, I've just posted in another thread, where the idea has been brought forward (an author published a book about his own experience) that some men just have sex with women in order to put up a front. They're not really into these women, but they don't want people to know they're gay. These men would be candy-coating it if they told everyone they were bi:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?169371-How-do-you-handle-Straight-Men&p=2759479&viewfull=1#post2759479

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

But, I've just posted in another thread, where the idea has been brought forward (an author published a book about his own experience) that some men just have sex with women in order to put up a front. They're not really into these women, but they don't want people to know they're gay. These men would be candy-coating it if they told everyone they were bi:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?169371-How-do-you-handle-Straight-Men&p=2759479&viewfull=1#post2759479

I would agree with you if men "on the down low" as the book is focused on, identified as bi, but they don't. Being openly bisexual would pretty much negate the "down low" aspect as the idea is basically "I'm sexually attracted to men, but shhh! let's keep this on the down low..." If they were bi, then there's nothing down low, it's all up high where everyone can see it. So really, "down low" is just another version of "Straight, but..." except for even worse because they're purposefully misleading women into being their cover.

[ReineD]

Ryan, let me ask you: I've read here and there, the idea that even among bi people, there is a preference or a tendency towards one sex more than another, which leads me to believe that sex can habitually be more intense with one gender rather than the other. I remember once reading that often, people start out believing they are opposite sex attracted, then they discover same sex attraction and enter a stage where they identify as bi, only to realize years later that their bisexuality was a stepping stone to accepting themselves as gay.

And then there are those who prefer either men or women, but who will have sex with the other gender occasionally. Might it be that some bi CDs just prefer sex with men (they certainly seem to fantasize about it a lot here), but it is easier for them to say they are bi? In other words, sex with a woman is OK but it doesn't rock their world like sex with a guy would?

[irene9999]

I guess if you had to categorize me, I'd say I'm bi too. I've only been with women sexually, but lately I've had more of chance to dress up and I find myself attracted to other CDs and even men sometimes when I'm dressed. I like flirting with men while en femme and might even want to be with one eventually, but as a guy (which is how i live most of the time anyway) I'm not attracted to them in the least. It's very strange, for me I'd say it's more of a fetish thing, but only when I cross dress.

[steph1965]

I am very bi. There is sometimes nothing better then to have strong man hands exploring me.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

Ryan, let me ask you: I've read here and there, the idea that even among bi people, there is a preference or a tendency towards one sex more than another, which leads me to believe that sex can habitually be more intense with one gender rather than the other. I remember once reading that often, people start out believing they are opposite sex attracted, then they discover same sex attraction and enter a stage where they identify as bi, only to realize years later that their bisexuality was a stepping stone to accepting themselves as gay.

And then there are those who prefer either men or women, but who will have sex with the other gender occasionally. Might it be that some bi CDs just prefer sex with men (they certainly seem to fantasize about it a lot here), but it is easier for them to say they are bi? In other words, sex with a woman is OK but it doesn't rock their world like sex with a guy would?

In response to your last question, of course. I am absolutely certain that this is the case for some, and I think some folks have even responded to this thread saying as much. There is also a strong case of those who do feel this way but are in denial about it to themselves. Doing a little math here, there are some CDs on here who say that they could live full time as a woman (A) and also that they find themselves attracted to men much more intensely when they are dressed as women (B), then there is at least some logic that suggests that A + B could = strongly attracted to men (C). I think the problem we run into both in the real world and on this board is assuming that this is true for all or most CDers when it actually differs in intensity for everyone on some level.

As far as the first part, the stepping stone aspect, I've heard this as well, and it certainly is the reason I often see women citing as why they won't date men who identify as bisexual, because they figure they will eventually decide they're actually really gay and just on their way to accepting that. I personally haven't done much research on this detail myself but I often wonder if it is a chicken/egg type debate. Is it really that men afraid to come out as gay will come out as bi first, to test the waters, or is that once a man has lived as openly bisexual, he starts to perhaps feel like he is more accepted, and more likely to find a long term or fulfilling relationship with another man, due to the fact that straight women are often hesitant to date a bisexual man, and thus tends to end up eventually living more as gay anyway.

I'm guessing the truth is that there's not one right answer, but as with all things a lot of shades of grey in between. I will admit that I know a lot more women who identify as bi than I do men. I don't think it's that bi men are any less likely I think it's just they're less likely to be open about it, to the public or to themselves. I of course have also read and heard the same things you've mentioned about differing levels of attraction and desire, and that makes sense. As you've said in other, you are not equally attracted to all men, just as I am not equally attracted to all women. And then amongst the bisexuals I know there are lots of different combinations, for example I know a girl who says she prefers sex with women but relationships with men.

[seanmuscle]

Ryan, let me ask you: I've read here and there, the idea that even among bi people, there is a preference or a tendency towards one sex more than another, which leads me to believe that sex can habitually be more intense with one gender rather than the other. I remember once reading that often, people start out believing they are opposite sex attracted, then they discover same sex attraction and enter a stage where they identify as bi, only to realize years later that their bisexuality was a stepping stone to accepting themselves as gay.

And then there are those who prefer either men or women, but who will have sex with the other gender occasionally. Might it be that some bi CDs just prefer sex with men (they certainly seem to fantasize about it a lot here), but it is easier for them to say they are bi? In other words, sex with a woman is OK but it doesn't rock their world like sex with a guy would?


exactly renne. finally we agree!

[Delila]

Some people that are not aware of pansexuality may categorize my sexuality as bisexual. Which is fine and dandy. However, I have an attraction to all gender identities not just limited to the male and female gender identities.

I agree with chantal. My sexual attractions are not merely limited to gender or sexual preference more to what is appealing when I am in the mood.

[ReineD]

exactly renne. finally we agree!

I never disagreed that some CDers prefer men. But I disagreed vehemently with you, when you said or implied that "all" CDers do. :p

[joannemarie barker]

You only have to read some replies to know for a fact that not all CDs prefer men.many here admit to being grossed out by the thought of being intimate with a man.i realised long ago that the dressing and my sexuality were to totally seperate things.i identify as bisexual because I am not because I want to feel like a woman.i identify with something reine said earlier.sex with a woman is ok but sexy with a man is,well it's my bag.and when I have sex there are no clothes in the picture :)

[CONSUELO]

There is an interesting recent report in the UK press about a boy who at the age of three told his mother that he was a girl. She now dressed and acts "girly" whereas before the age of three "he" was more interested in what society would consider boyish things. She is a patient of the Tavistock Institute in London which is known for pioneering work in psychology. i find it interesting that the human mind can be so flexible. I don't think of myself as a girl but as a TV/CD but I have noticed that my feelings have changed and strengthened over the years. In my 20's I thought that I just had a fetish to dress in lingerie which would give me a sexual buzz. Now I find great comfort in dressing as a woman and behaving in more feminine ways. It all seems part of a spectrum or continuum as someone mentioned when referring to Kinsey's work. Also in my 20's I would have felt repulsed at the thought of having sexual relations with men whereas now, in my femme role, I have found such relations to be extremely satisfying and not at all strange. But I am sure that my particular "condition" is replicated by few others. We are like a series of overlapping circles with some things in common and other things that are not. My only regret is that my sexuality didn't gel for so long.

[lightfoot]

I'll weight in on this conversation late, as well as being my first post. Hello everyone! I identify as being bisexual. Even though I've never been with a man, I know I'd like to be. I'm very much attracted to women. Probably more so than guys. The difficult part (for me anyway) is to find the "right" guy. The mindset is very different, or I'm just defective. Things like gay porn do not appeal to me at all. Does that make me straight? I do not think so, because I know I love to explore being that inner girl The thing is. I love sensual romance in sex. I think that's easier to achieve with a woman. Most of the guy on guy porn I've seen is just too raw and brash. In my mind, I'm far from being gay, and I'm far too strange to be lumped into the straight crowd. I'm quite happy labeling myself as bisexual. I love everyone. And someday, yes someday, I do hope to unleash my desires with the right man. If not, I'll continue to be happy...just being me.

[anna36b]

There is a saying that goes don't knock it till you have tried it.

Speaking for just myself, there is nothing more fem and girly then having a guy appreciate how fem you are, how fem and girly you are dressed, how you interact with him, and how you are willing to submit to his desires and needs. The right guy will make you feel like you are all woman and then some!

Happy to be a bi girl :)

[Taya]

Good thread to find :)

I would now classify myself as pansexual - cos in my male state I am attracted to guys, girls, and everything in between. I find transgirls hot and transboys very cute. Love a good androgynous girl. But it's the way in which I'm attracted which is slightly different. When I am thinking more male, then my attraction to guys is pretty much strictly about ****. Nothing else is really pulling me to a guy. But when I am thinking in feminine, then I want to be held by a strong guy, and be on his arm, I want to feel his power on top of me, and hold him close as he climaxes, smell his manly scent... be looked after, all that kind of stuff. Funny old thing our brain and hormones.

[Michaela51]

I'll weight in on this conversation late, as well as being my first post. Hello everyone! I identify as being bisexual. Even though I've never been with a man, I know I'd like to be. I'm very much attracted to women. Probably more so than guys. The difficult part (for me anyway) is to find the "right" guy. The mindset is very different, or I'm just defective. Things like gay porn do not appeal to me at all. Does that make me straight? I do not think so, because I know I love to explore being that inner girl The thing is. I love sensual romance in sex. I think that's easier to achieve with a woman. Most of the guy on guy porn I've seen is just too raw and brash. In my mind, I'm far from being gay, and I'm far too strange to be lumped into the straight crowd. I'm quite happy labeling myself as bisexual. I love everyone. And someday, yes someday, I do hope to unleash my desires with the right man. If not, I'll continue to be happy...just being me.

I understand your feeling about this, Lightfoot. I am bisexual and I sometimes remark half-jokingly tha if I ad it to do over again I would be a transgendered lesbian.

[CONSUELO]

Its a confusing world. So many variations and nuances that it is impossible to generalize. I find that I don't really like gay porn as I don't like the male bodies or the way in which they indulge in sexual intercourse. I enjoy watching TV porn but only if no men are involved and I also enjoy lesbian porn. When i see a TV and a man I am not interested at all. Yet, given the right man, I am OK to have a sexual relationship. Also I rarely look at men in public but enjoy looking at pretty and well groomed women but not as a sexual "turn on". Do other girls here feel similarly?

[whowhatwhen]

It sounds similar to me, which I attribute to lingering internalized homophobia which does not allow me to find as many guys as attractive.
Sometimes I'll see a cute guy, get in the mood and BAM! Damn he's hot!

Still, porn isn't a good measuring stick.
If you still find women attractive, then just go with the flow and play with both and see how you feel.

Women are definitely attractive to me too, but I grew up around a bit of sexism and mysogyny so I don't feel comfortable picking their appearance apart or imagining sex with them.
God, there is nothing more uncomfortable than being with a group of men talking about women.

[Contessa]

I have read more of the replies to this thread and want add to mine. I won't change my first reply as I am saying it is still true. What I do think is true that those here that think or would say they are heterosexual when in drab. Those people try to find that they could be the same en femme. I think it doesn't work. So if you are gay you'll be with men no matter how your dressed, same for bisexual you'll be with men no matter how you're dressed. If you're bi curious you will fantasize about being with men if dressed en femme. But being heterosexual doesn't fit. I don't want to be with a man for sexual reasons but I don't want to stop dressing either

Tess

[NyssaF]

List me in the bi-sexual group. Though interestingly enough, the thought of being with a man while I am dressed isn't all that appealing. For me, cross-dressing isn't sexually-oriented, it's gender-oriented. Though that doesn't quite make sense. I've given up trying to figure it out. :)

[SabrinaEmily]

Bisexual doesn't seem quite right, but I like girls and non-binary people. Not really guys, but my liking for non-binary people does extend some way along the transmasculine spectrum.

[VanIsle]

I enjoy being in my own little pigeonhole, all by myself :)
I'm sexually not-fussy lol

[junemay]

Love to hear your story

[Cait]

I am happy to describe and identify myself as bisexual and I don't believe that my sexuality is linked to my gender in any significant way. I find myself almost exactly equally attracted to men and women and truely don't have a preference towards which gender I would rather pursue a loving and longlasting relationship with, nor do I have a preference over which gender I would pursue a purely sexual relationship with. I suppose I would be most accurately described as pansexual but I feel that bisexual is a more widely understood term and one which I am only too happy to identify myself by :)

I am also of the point of view that everybody is at least a little bit bisexual but that many will simply not realise or act upon it.

[taís]

this may, or may not, add to the discussion; nonetheless is an interesting video about science and sexuality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-A8GvUehq4



Authors@Google: Ogi Ogas
Two bold young neuroscientists have initiated a revolution in the scientific study of sexual attraction. Before Ogi Ogas and Sai Gaddam, the only researcher to systematically investigate sexual desires was Alfred Kinsey, who surveyed 18,000 middle-class Caucasians in the 1950s. But Ogas and Gaddam have studied the secret sexual behavior of more than a hundred million men and women around the world. Their method? They observed what people do within the anonymity of the Internet.

in a nutshell, the lecture presents a neuroscientific theory about why the most popular erotic interest on the internet for heterosexual men is ******* p0rn (and for heterosexual women, Edward Cullen from the Twilight series).

(has anyone read the book? http://www.billionwickedthoughts.com/)

[paige_stone]

Im also bi.

when i was younger i would not dare think about such think but as i get older dressed or not both sexes can be very appealing.

[whowhatwhen]

Since I can't sleep I'll take out my inner thought process on everyone else!



Hey, if you're actually BI then why don't you watch stuff with all males?
I mean, you have it, you have access to it, but you only look maybe once a month at best.




Aha!
But if I were straight I'd be thinking of being with women as the male partner...


It's funny that I'm 25 years old and I still don't know my own sexual orientation.
The only thing I've learned is that nothing is easy, especially the "simplest" things.

It seems for me at least, that my desire to CD is entirely unlinked with my orientation.

[Beth Mays]

For me, cross-dressing isn't sexually-oriented, it's gender-oriented.

Well put. My dressing up has nothing to do with my sexual desires, actions, thoughts ...... well... most of the time anyway!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Paulette, The only rule is that there are no rules!!!

[roger]

Seems to me alot of dressers are only bi when dressed.

[Maria Blackwood]

I dabbled with my bicuriosity many years back with both transexuals and other bicurious men. It was fun because it was new and different, but, eh... Not something I'd pursue over a straight relationship, but if the oppurtunity presented again I'd probably indulge in a fling. Not sure what that makes me. Just "me", I guess. This was probably a poor answer.

[Sissy Michelle]

"there is nothing more fem and girly then having a guy appreciate how fem you are" That is so true Anna ! as long as he treats you as a lady and his language is not all that macho describing of what is going on in his pants and what hed like to do etc....

I am very much attracted to women, their smell , their shape, their style, their soft hairless skin and elegance etc..sexy women definately "do it for me". However when i am in my ultra feminine submissive moods i can easily be with "the right man". Not because i am attracted to them ( as i can say that I am 100% not attracted to males ) but to feel submissive, helpless, used and dominanted by them, which in "my head" makes me feel more weak and feminine. I have been to bed with a couple of guys ( sometimes my wife was there ) and I enjoyed being their "toy"......but that is as far as my feelings went.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

but to feel submissive, helpless, used and dominanted by them, which in "my head" makes me feel more weak and feminine. I have been to bed with a couple of guys ( sometimes my wife was there ) and I enjoyed being their "toy"..

I was really planning on ending my entries in this thread because I thought I had said all that I had said, but these kind of comments really bother me. Is that really what you think of when you think of women? As weak and meant to be dominated? It blows my mind how many crossdressers claim to want to be women, treated like women, and love women, and yet also have this 100% misogynistic view towards women.

[ReineD]

I was really planning on ending my entries in this thread because I thought I had said all that I had said, but these kind of comments really bother me. Is that really what you think of when you think of women? As weak and meant to be dominated? It blows my mind how many crossdressers claim to want to be women, treated like women, and love women, and yet also have this 100% misogynistic view towards women.

Thank you! :D

IMO, any desire for submission is just that ... enjoying submission. It has nothing to do with gender. People can be the submissive partner in a D/s relationship and still remain true to their gender. Anyone who questions this can join FetLife and see for themselves. lol

[laura.lapinski]

I am very much attracted to women, their smell , their shape, their style, their soft hairless skin and elegance etc..sexy women definately "do it for me". However when i am in my ultra feminine submissive moods i can easily be with "the right man". Not because i am attracted to them ( as i can say that I am 100% not attracted to males ) but to feel submissive, helpless, used and dominanted by them, which in "my head" makes me feel more weak and feminine. I have been to bed with a couple of guys ( sometimes my wife was there ) and I enjoyed being their "toy"......but that is as far as my feelings went.

I can relate a lot to Sissy Michelle. JiveTurkeyOnRye, I looked up misogynystic and I didn't take Michelle's comment as being that way. I think a lot of women like to be submissive in bed, but not all. At worst, I can only see Michelle as maybe not understanding what a women feels during sex and in an intimate relationship (and I don't claim to know 100%, but I have been with a fair amount of women in my life, and in relationships, and do a lot of reading), but I don't take it that Michelle is a woman hater.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I looked up misogynystic and I didn't take Michelle's comment as being that way.

Have to agree to disagree on this one then. I honestly don't see how you can get much more misogynistic than saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me.

[ReineD]

Have to agree to disagree on this one then. I honestly don't see how you can get much more misogynistic than saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me.

Ryan, you are now officially dubbed an Honorary Woman (if you'll accept the title if only in spirit), conferred by myself, the Queen of Diamonds from the House of Cards, in appreciation of your realistic views of the contemporary woman.

I dub thee, "Sir Woman"! :yrtw:

[GinaD]

I love women, so I like to think of myself as a lesbian in a man's body. But to be honest, I am bisexual. When I was a teenager, I discovered a long time friend was in fact gay. He was very anxious that I would expose hiim, but I let him in on my secret. We ended up having a few encounters, but I always played the feminine role and dressed appropriately. I enjoyed being a "girl" and having a male "take me" in a gentle, caring way. However, I prefer women and have had one experience with a woman who preferred crossdressers. You are what you are, and it's o.k. as long as you are not hurting anyone.

[Momarie]

Have to agree to disagree on this one then. I honestly don't see how you can get much more misogynistic than saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me.

JiveTurkey,
Thank you so much for your response to Sissy Michelle.

This part especially bears repeating........"saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me."

Sissy Michelle had posted:
"However when i am in my ultra feminine submissive moods i can easily be with "the right man". Not because i am attracted to them ( as i can say that I am 100% not attracted to males ) but to feel submissive, helpless, used and dominanted by them, which in "my head" makes me feel more weak and feminine. I have been to bed with a couple of guys ( sometimes my wife was there ) and I enjoyed being their "toy"......but that is as far as my feelings went. :)

Maybe bi or gay men feel this way but I don't know any healthy minded women that do.

Sometimes the responses regarding women on this board are so far off base it's very discouraging and offensive.

[Miranda-E]

....."saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me."

Maybe bi or gay men feel this way, but I don't know any healthy minded women that do.



this is an idea right out of the "I'm strait" crossdresser handbook and not the bi or gay ranks
its virtual porn for them, if they cant find a submissive woman they create a fantasy one and can see and alter the fantasy from both sides.

[Badtranny]

JiveTurkey,

Maybe bi or gay men feel this way but I don't know any healthy minded women that do.

Um, only the submissive ones and they don't feel or pretend to feel like women. Gay men really enjoy being men, with their penises and whatnot.

I have long thought that there were some serious patriarchal undertones on this site, but what else would you expect from an overwhelming majority of straight men. I am only surprised that nobody has complained about it in at least 6 months.

Was it offensive? Hell yeah, but no more so than the insistent desire to put women on a pedestal that pervades this forum. Just sayin'

[jenna moe]

i've been with both and i find things interesting with both, that i don't call myself anything other dressed or not, i find interesting, i still like doing the dishes in a dress better

[Sissy Michelle]

What i said was that "in my head" a man that is dominating over me, makes me feel weaker and more feminine. If i didnt feel that way i would not be allowing him to "dominate me", in my submission I show myself to be weaker and "not as manly as him" and "in my head" consequently more feminine than him ! I am not a "crossdresser" i have been diagnosed with klinefelters syndrom and ahve been TS all of my life.

Have to agree to disagree on this one then. I honestly don't see how you can get much more misogynistic than saying femininity is equal to being submissive and weak, and that being used as some guy's sex toy as being the thing that there is "nothing more fem" than. It says a lot about how someone perceives women in their mind, and those perceptions seem pretty ugly and demeaning to me.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

JiveTurkey,
Thank you so much for your response to Sissy Michelle.

I'm glad you appreciated it, and I also thank Reine for her honorary woman card :), however...


Maybe bi or gay men feel this way but I don't know any healthy minded women that do.


Let's not meet disparaging thoughts about groups with more disparaging thoughts about groups. The point is that being submissive or dominant has nothing to do with one's gender or sexuality. There are gay and bi men who are very dominant, and there are cisgendered men who are submissive. I have a friend here in LA who works as a dominatrix, and out of curiosity I recently asked her how many of her clients were into the "sissy" or "forced feminization" stuff, and she said only one. And, based on that example, there are women who are very dominant, just as there are women who are very submissive.


What i said was that "in my head" a man that is dominating over me, makes me feel weaker and more feminine. If i didnt feel that way i would not be allowing him to "dominate me", in my submission I show myself to be weaker and "not as manly as him" and "in my head" consequently more feminine than him !

And what I said was "in your head" are some pretty negative views on what it mean to be feminine. I've never seen femininity to be about weakness or being submissive and dominated. But you do. You're not the first person on this forum to share that sentiment and you won't be the last, and you will likely make a group of friends on here who totally get it and bond with you. But it comes up enough and it makes me wince every time it does that this time I decided I should just say something about it. Now I have and we can move on.

[seanmuscle]

What i said was that "in my head" a man that is dominating over me, makes me feel weaker and more feminine. If i didnt feel that way i would not be allowing him to "dominate me", in my submission I show myself to be weaker and "not as manly as him" and "in my head" consequently more feminine than him ! I am not a "crossdresser" i have been diagnosed with klinefelters syndrom and ahve been TS all of my life.

Dont listen to them. We live in a PC era where anything male is wrong and acknowledging differences between genders is wrong.

Like it or not most women like a strong dominant man to make them feel safe, protected, secure and feminine. On average women are smaller and weaker than men. Its in their instincts to prefer alpha males as they insure her survival. All studies show the taller muscular man gets more sexual partners. Women love the contrast between themselves and their muscular hunk.

[BRANDYJ]

Dont listen to them. We live in a PC era where anything male is wrong and acknowledging differences between genders is wrong.

Like it or not most women like a strong dominant man to make them feel safe, protected, secure and feminine. On average women are smaller and weaker than men. Its in their instincts to prefer alpha males as they insure her survival. All studies show the taller muscular man gets more sexual partners. Women love the contrast between themselves and their muscular hunk.

I see he's at it again. Ignore it and he may go away. All studies???? Where? Only in your egotistical hedonistic view of yourself.

[seanmuscle]

I see he's at it again. Ignore it and he may go away. All studies???? Where? Only in your egotistical hedonistic view of yourself.

Yes all studies. And you have evidence in that males are on average taller than females because of female sexual selection. Women prefer smaller, weaker, submissive men? If so they would not survive. Girl only following her instincts as a female. They will always remain. A man is a man and woman is a woman. We are very different in our needs and what turns us on in the oppossite gender.

[ReineD]

Dont listen to them. We live in a PC era where anything male is wrong and acknowledging differences between genders is wrong.

Like it or not most women like a strong dominant man to make them feel safe, protected, secure and feminine. On average women are smaller and weaker than men. Its in their instincts to prefer alpha males as they insure her survival. All studies show the taller muscular man gets more sexual partners. Women love the contrast between themselves and their muscular hunk.

That's a stereotypical view and not the reality.

Here's a definition of stereotype: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

Excerpt:

Stereotypes are standardized and simplified conceptions of groups based on some prior assumptions. Another name for stereotyping is bias.

You and Sissy Michelle are stuck in a limited view that women are or "should be" weak and submissive, while men are strong and dominant. It's fine for you if you prefer to engage in this sort of mental fetish, but to suggest that this is the case for most everyone is totally inaccurate. A desire to be "dominated" sexually has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender.

I, for one, am in an equal relationship with my partner, and I can say that the majority of the women that I know are as well. In every relationship, partners each have their strengths and weaknesses.

Please stop ascribing your own fetish views on everyone else. :rolleyes:

[Sissy Michelle]

I appreciate your opinions *seanmuscle.

To me its quite obvious too, and there are many medical & scientific reports that quite simply confirm that a male is naturally Masculine and dominant in nature ( The hunter ) and that the female is weaker and feminine in nature ( The nurturers ). I have NEVER said that this was a negative thing, infact i think it is a wonderful thing.
Negitivity is quite often put on it by "banner wavers" and people who need to get out more and have a hobby.
Apart from that, everybody has their own experiences and thoughts which of course is fine. We live in an ever expanding world of acceptance and openess regarding sexuality and lifestyle and we should accept and acknowledge that people have different emotions and experiences. I verbalized how i felt at certain times and i stand by that, and see no wrong in explaining how i felt.
Ok, I am from Scandinavia and English is not my first language so possibly I could have written things in a better way, but the result would be the same.
It was quite funny that someone mentioned a "DOMINATRIX" as i am VERY good friends with one of the most famous ones in Europe, a lady who has modelled also for some of the worlds top fetish artists and i know for a fact that the larger part of her mails from people are on the subject of forced feminization together with humiliation and submission :)

ReineD
"You and Sissy Michelle are stuck in a limited view that women are or "should be" weak and submissive, while men are strong and dominant. It's fine for you if you prefer to engage in this sort of mental fetish, but to suggest that this is the case for most everyone is totally inaccurate. A desire to be "dominated" sexually has absolutely NOTHING to do with gender."

I think you need to read my post again and tell me where it says that women "should be submissive" ? and "Jive turkeys" needs to re read my post where it supposedly says that i say that being feminine "is being weak".
What i said was that it made me feel weak.........AND feminine ! .....really "ladies"....isnt there anything on TV this evening! ???

[ReineD]

It was quite funny that someone mentioned a "DOMINATRIX" as i am VERY good friends with one of the most famous ones in Europe, a lady who has modelled also for some of the worlds top fetish artists and i know for a fact that the larger part of her mails from people are on the subject of forced feminization together with humiliation and submission :)

A famous European Domme who models for top fetish artists and whose prospects are men who seek forced feminization? LOL. Do you really think this reflects how women like myself (and most women I know) view ourselves sexually?

And no, you didn't say that women "should" be submissive. This is what you actually said (bold type is my emphasis):


However when i am in my ultra feminine submissive moods i can easily be with "the right man". Not because i am attracted to them ( as i can say that I am 100% not attracted to males ) but to feel submissive, helpless, used and dominanted by them, which in "my head" makes me feel more weak and feminine.

If this is not your definition of feminity, then please enlighten us as to what you really meant. :)

Don't get me wrong, you have every right to seek any sexual relationship you want. No one objects to this. But Ryan, Momarie, myself and I'm sure others do become weary when we read the popular sentiment in this forum (it's not just you) that feelings of submission (characterized by wanting to feel helpless, used, and dominated as you said) should be associated with femininity. This is not true in the real world, just in yours, because your needs are fetish/fantasy based.

A sexual desire for submission has nothing to do with gender. You are a CDer and you associate it with gender, maybe dressing is a way you can give yourself permission to do this, but there are men in the BDSM community who seek sexual submission without needing or wanting to become feminized. And there are CDers who do not seek sexual submission or forced feminization.

I know I'm repeating myself, but submission has nothing to do with gender or femininity!

[LilSissyStevie]

Things I've learned from this thread:

1. Being bi cannot be context sensitive. If you are bi, you must be attracted to each sex always and everywhere the same. If you are only attracted to men when en femme, you are really gay and in denial. The times you are attracted to women don't count.

2. You can be a sexually submissive male OR you can be transgendered, but you can't be submissive AND transgendered because that would mean you hate women.

3. Femininity and masculinity are NOT socially constructed sexual stereotypes (!!!) but merely the equivalent of sexual identity. If I identify as a woman then any quality I have is femimine by definition as long as it is a "positive" quality. If I identify as a man then any quality is masculine. Otherwise there is no difference. Of course, this only applies to attributes we consider to be positive; "negative" attributes like submissiveness have no gender.

LOL!

[BRANDYJ]

I happen to be one of those men that serves a Dominant woman. I have been a CD long before I even knew about BDSM or gave it a thought. The Dominant woman that I serve is not the stereo-typical dominatrix most think of when they think of a dominant woman.

I discovered that I wanted a woman that was my equal in everyday life but leads our relationship and commands my total respect and submission to her. Her wants and needs come before my own. I am far from submissive in my everyday life and business world. But to the one woman I love, I am all hers. I look up to her, admire herstrengtht on so many levels. It has nothing at all to do with what I'm wearing.

I too am angered at the stereo-typical view so many arrogant males have about women somehow being weaker and something less then equal to man. I'll gladly turn in my man card before I would ever think of women as weak, needy, submissive play toys that some of these Neanderthals think women are to them. Yes, my SO makes me feel submissive. But it has nothing to do with the way I'm dressed. I goes far beyond the bedroom. I submit to her out of love and respect, not for the games many think of when thinking about a man submitting to woman.

[jayme357]

LilSissyStevie - All I can possibly say is "you have got to be kidding".

[Sandra]

Like it or not most women like a strong dominant man to make them feel safe, protected, secure and feminine. On average women are smaller and weaker than men. Its in their instincts to prefer alpha males as they insure her survival. All studies show the taller muscular man gets more sexual partners. Women love the contrast between themselves and their muscular hunk.

FFS you do talk a load of crap!!

[BRANDYJ]

LilSissyStevie - All I can possibly say is "you have got to be kidding".

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way! He makes no sense what-so- ever.

I had started a response to his post but thought better of it. My first reaction was WHAT!!!!????!!!!

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

I appreciate your opinions *seanmuscle.


You may want to go back and read all of Sean's posts before you decide you want him to be a champion for your cause.


To me its quite obvious too, and there are many medical & scientific reports that quite simply confirm that a male is naturally Masculine and dominant in nature ( The hunter ) and that the female is weaker and feminine in nature ( The nurturers ). I have NEVER said that this was a negative thing, infact i think it is a wonderful thing.

There's medical and scientific reports on how human beings behave in nature? I'd love to see some of these reports as I'm fairly certain humans have been living in society for ten thousand years or more. Where are these humans living free of captivity that these medical and scientific students were able to get these definitive reports? Unless you mean non-human animals in nature, of which the roles of the sexes vary from species to species, lionesses for example do the hunting, and dogs tend to be as aggressive regardless of the sex.

Furthermore, would love to see some of these reports from the animal kingdom where females who are nurturers also fulfill a submissive, toy-like sexual role for their mates, as opposed to having sexual intercourse for the purposes of reproduction, as scientists often say the only animals that have sex for pleasure are humans, dolphins, and bonobo apes.

Now, I won't disagree that men do tend to be physically stronger than women. What I do disagree with is that this has any correlation to the argument that femininity is then by definition a submissive/weak counterpoint to that. First off, men tend to be larger because historically men have been more likely to be laborers and soliders. This *societal* classification has led to centuries of breeding stock that have left men the way they are today. How much of this has to do with human nature as an animal and how much of it has to do with socialization is tough to determine, however considering the success of the women's lib movement, and the writings of women in the centuries leading up to it in addition to the powerful female historical figures who managed to break through the prevailing patriarchy, suggest that the submissive role thrust upon women through history doesn't mesh with the actual nature of the human female.


It was quite funny that someone mentioned a "DOMINATRIX" as i am VERY good friends with one of the most famous ones in Europe, a lady who has modelled also for some of the worlds top fetish artists and i know for a fact that the larger part of her mails from people are on the subject of forced feminization together with humiliation and submission :)

You really can't understand why we might have an issue with the idea that it is humiliating to be forced into a feminine role? Ok, so a lot of guys are "into" that. Well, since there's no rule that says a large group of people can't all collectively have a viewpoint that is illogical or misguided, I fail to see the point you're making here, especially when combined with:


What i said was that it made me feel weak.........AND feminine !

So which is it? Is it that feeling weak and feminine to you are two separate feelings that happen simultaneously with no direct connection, or is it that feminization is combined with feeling humiliated and submissive? You can't have it both ways, you can't say that being humiliated, or being seen as weak or overpowered by a man and submitting makes you feel feminine and then say that to you being feminine doesn't mean weak/submissive and worthy of humiliation.

[Julie Hall]

Early on in this thread I thought of contributing, but geez! This has turned into a very bizarre back and forth. For those that believe women are naturally submissive, I give the examples of: my mother, my wife, my daughter and the vast majority of those women I've met through the years. My observations are merely anecdotal, but I have been around many years and have known a great many women (not like that!).

It has been my life observations that there are dominant and submissive tendencies in both sexes, neither gender has a corner of the market for either tendency. My observations on the board indicate the cd population is a mix of hetero, bi and homosexuals - don't forget those that aren't sure what they are, sexually. I have never felt the need to generalize gender, sexuality and dominance; the population like any true population mixes and matches and jumbles the variations. I see no difference in the forum population.

I'm not really sure if I said what I wanted to or even remember what points I wanted to make, I just know I had to say something reading the posts was extremely frustrating!

Julie

[Bree-asaurus]

I think there's a lot of "Well, this is what I've experienced, so this is how it must be for everyone else." There are a few people here, and we all know who they are, that have a very aged view of masculinity, femininity, gender roles, etc.

One of these people has also stated that if you have a penis you are a man and if you have a vagina, you are a woman. It's hard for me to put any weight in anything this person says because their views are so harshly stereotypical and about 30 years too old.

Male might correlate with masculinity and female may correlate with femininity. But in today's world, where we all live now, it doesn't really matter. Women no longer have to rely on strong men to hunt and kill. Men no longer have to rely on women to raise a family. As these old ways have gone, we have seen feminine men and masculine women. We also have men and women who are feminine and dominant or masculine and submissive. You can no longer say that "this is the way it is, if you have a penis you are a man, and you are masculine and you are dominant" because the survival of our species has evolved beyond it. And none of this has anything to do with sexuality. Who you are attracted to does not make you feminine, masculine, dominant or submissive (or male or female for that matter).

But no amount of arguing is going to convince them otherwise because they are locked into their old-timey views.

Anyway...

I consider myself straight, but I'm not hard set on these labels. I would probably have sex with a woman I was attracted enough to, and I wouldn't rule out a relationship with a woman... but men are my first choice and the only choice I really seek out. But I've been with my man for a while now, so for me, this is all moot anyway.

I may have had to live with testosterone for 25 years, but with all that poison out of my system I'm still pretty gosh darned dominant. Sexually, I'm probably pretty well balanced, but if I had to choose, I would lean more towards the submissive side. After SRS I'll really be able to figure this out.

This really isn't what the original poster is asking because they are asking about crossdressing and bisexuality, where I identify as a woman. But this thread is sooooo of track, I think pretty much anyone can throw in their two cents and it wouldn't really matter anyway.

[ReineD]

But this thread is sooooo of track, I think pretty much anyone can throw in their two cents and it wouldn't really matter anyway.

After 14 pages and going on four months, Bree, it's bound to happen, especially with the confusion in this thread over reality vs. fantasy. lol. Have at it! :D

[whowhatwhen]

It's an interesting thread though and it's caused me to ask a lot more questions of myself.
Not that I've been able to answer them, but still... :P

[Badtranny]

Things I've learned from this thread:

THAT'S what you learned from the thread?

1. Context sensitive? I tend to be more "affectionate" when I drink, so am I ****ty or is that context sensitive as well?

2. Well, if you're saying that being submissive makes you FEEL like a woman than you may not hate them but you sure as hell don't understand them. Sex, clothes and perfume don't make anybody feel like a woman except a woman.

3. Who said being submissive is negative? I think the only quality deemed negative in this thread is delusion, and that applies to men AND women Trans or otherwise.

[laura.lapinski]

I think a lot of you are taking what other people say way too personal. This thread is so far off track. Really, there must be better things to do than argue back and forth over this. I can't even bear to read past one or two points/counter point posts after a while, because it is all just too silly and a waste of time.

[Lorenqt]

I rather enjoy being bi.

[ReineD]

I think a lot of you are taking what other people say way too personal. This thread is so far off track. Really, there must be better things to do than argue back and forth over this. I can't even bear to read past one or two points/counter point posts after a while, because it is all just too silly and a waste of time.

The topic of femininity as it relates to bisexuality is not off topic. There are different reasons for bisexuality among CDers.

As to taking things personally, I see nothing but an exchange of opinions here. This is a discussion forum after all. It is not a stretch for some of our members including myself to point out that femininity is not characterized by "submission, weakness, helplessness, and feeling used and dominated", contrary to an oft-expressed sentiment in this forum. Such views are pure fetish/fantasy and it is not my impression the OP started this thread as an encouragement for fantasy responses.

[whowhatwhen]

I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt here, the media and society in general still pushes that women=submissive stuff so I can see how some men would be getting that message and applying it to themselves.
Think of it as an educational opportunity to set the record straight :P

I still hear things that are basically "unless the man is in control of (x), he is a failure" or "she wears the pants" as if it was a failing on his part.
That stuff is going to take quite a few generations to undo.

[ReineD]

^ Didn't you learn that we can't rely on the stereotypes (male and female) portrayed in the media for an accurate portrayal of humanity? :)

It's like believing in fairy tales! :p

Look around at your married friends instead. Your neighbors. Your family. You'll see that each person in a relationship has their own strengths and weaknesses and most marriages are an equal partnership and not an exercise in dominance/submission. Look especially close at anyone under 40, and devise an average rather than focus on perhaps the one or two couples who do appear to conform to the stereotypes. :)

[whowhatwhen]

All I see from marriage is the woman giving up so much for the man but not the other way around, that's just anecdotal though.
That probably explains my low opinion of it :P

[ReineD]

The idea that men are dominant and women are submissive as a blanket statement is pure and total nonsense. Hogwash.

Totally agree! Honestly, I think we can only find the notion of "submissiveness" in a CDer's sexual fantasy. Guys who do not CD don't go around calling their wives submissive. :rolleyes:

I'm a GG, I was at home raising kids for decades while my husband had the career, and I can tell you without a shadow of any doubt that I decidedly DID NOT FEEL SUBMISSIVE! (Was that definitive enough? :)). We each had our jobs/tasks/chores, things that we each were better at or preferred, we helped each other out and advised in each other's areas of expertise (in other words there was no lord & master/slave relationship) and we were satisfied with the division of labor. Did I get a sexual charge out of feeling, as one poster said above, "weak, used, and dominated"? H*ll no! lol. And I would have smacked anyone who suggested anything of the sort, simply because we had decided that one of us should stay at home to raise the kids, and that person was me because my earning power was less than his.

And I'm in my 50s! Can you imagine how much more equal things are now with people in their 20s and 30s?

Jeez. :p

[whowhatwhen]

Did I get a sexual charge out of feeling, as one poster said above, "weak, used, and dominated"? H*ll no! lol.

I re-read the original post that started this derail and while I can see why some people are upset I believe it was blown a bit out of proportion.

She didn't say women or femininity are inherently weak, inferior or submissive, but was (I think) describing a submission fantasy that likely doesn't extend further than the bedroom.

It is interesting though that the fabled "faceless male" makes another appearance, he seems to be quite popular. I do have hope that one day he will be unmasked. :P

[Tara D. Rose]

Wow this thread has had 16,771 views and 356 replies. It has gone from bi while dressed (MtF), to men and women being equal or not being equal. I'm just speaking neutrally here. Ahh the heck with it

[ReineD]

She didn't say women or femininity are inherently weak, inferior or submissive, but was (I think) describing a submission fantasy that likely doesn't extend further than the bedroom.

That was my point. :)

Maybe it just boils down to people wanting to use the forum for different purposes. Although a few people like to come here and post their sexual fantasies, I'd say for the most part people seek support here and it is also a place where they attempt to define themselves, at least when they first come here. And so to have posts that laud femininity as some sort of fetish is offensive to those of us who aren't into this sort of thing, especially the GGs who are here to support their husbands. CD.com isn't, after all, a fetish forum. There are plenty of other places online that the fetishists can go to. :p

Still, if one of our members experiences an occasional need to describe a sexual fantasy, it might help if he would preface his post with "This is strictly a sexual fantasy and it is not the way I see women in general", so that the rest of us would know he is not painting women with a broad brush and objectifying them. Or better yet, he could post such sexual fantasies in the GM forum. :)

[Jennifer Monroe]

I see myself as bisexual. I could be in a long term relationship with either a man or a woman. I would search for compansionship and someone who cared for and loved me. I love dressing up but I could make love with or without the clothes with either sex. If I was in a relationship a man I would just be me. I would see how things evolved before introducing female clothing. I would do the same with a woman. I would see how things progressed. The most important thing to me is not if I could wear sexy lingerie while making love but just connecting with my lover and partner. Whatever you feel comfortable with then explore and be happy!

[muzzy]

wow,I have only been on this site a few weeks and this is easily the most discussed thread with 15 pages so far....ME,I have a girlfriend whom I have told I crossdress and is good about it although I don't go out and it's mainly lingerie in the bedroom.I have never told previous girlfriends so this is a pretty good start.I have thought about sex with men but I don't think my heart is into it as I've slept with a few but as far as going all the way,well,let's just say not yet..It's always a possibility you can't rule out.In general I would have to say I'm a hetro who loves to dressup but has had thoughts about bi.....as far as I can tell,most of us have had the thought at least xoxo

[Tara D. Rose]

wow,I have only been on this site a few weeks and this is easily the most discussed thread with 15 pages so far....ME,I have a girlfriend whom I have told I crossdress and is good about it although I don't go out and it's mainly lingerie in the bedroom.I have never told previous girlfriends so this is a pretty good start.I have thought about sex with men but I don't think my heart is into it as I've slept with a few but as far as going all the way,well,let's just say not yet..It's always a possibility you can't rule out.In general I would have to say I'm a hetro who loves to dressup but has had thoughts about bi.....as far as I can tell,most of us have had the thought at least xoxo


well welcome to the site, you will quickly find that what you thought this site is or what it is supposed to be is not what it really is. If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

[CINDYO]

what is all the talk about submissive and dominant. most GG do not think that way at all. that is guy talk....

[Shananigans]

well welcome to the site, you will quickly find that what you thought this site is or what it is supposed to be is not what it really is. If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

See...I knew that our stereotype of being passive/submissive/staying in the kitchen and wearing our high heels was a total fallacy. I keep telling men that my vagina does not dictate my personality, but I keep having to prove myself. I'm glad we have one vote that women actually aren't passive little push overs that are obsessed with clothes and being on our backs. (Even though "bullying" is a strong verb for expression of opinions).

I do love contradiction. It seems that when someone does not like something that is done to them (generalizations), they react to the situation with the same response (generalizations). It IS a lovely world.

Back to the line of bisexuality and crossdressing. Someone asked me today if I had a boyfriend. It's kind of weird that many people just assume everyone around them is straight. I mean, I do it too though...I never ask, "Do you have a significant other?" It sounds a little awkward. I was also informed that being "bisexual" is the new "in" thing for women to be. I was unaware.

[whowhatwhen]

Oh definitely, it goes something like:

Bisexual women: Doing it for the attention.
Bisexual men: Gay. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just plain ol' gay.

It is interesting though that submissiveness in men is seen as such a negative thing, anything but the man being in charge of everything means he is a failure and deserves mockery.
I wonder how much damage that has done...

My mom gave up almost everything, I would never ask that of anyone as it's completely unfair.
*halo*

[ReineD]

If you oppose a GG on the subject of cd's and what and who we are, you'll find yourself bullied by them. You will not win. It's a lovely world

Good Lord, Tara ... please let it go. You were taken to task in the past for breaking forum rules, not because you "went against any GG". Enough already, and stop trolling. I'm warning you.

To Muzzy: you'll find GGs on this site who are supportive while others are having a hard time. Some of the GGs have SOs who are open and honest with them, while others have SOs who go behind their backs and lie. Some people have great relationships, while others don't for many reasons that have nothing to do with the CDing. Please don't listen to anyone here who makes broad-brush statements. Such people generally just don't get it.


what is all the talk about submissive and dominant. most GG do not think that way at all. that is guy talk....

It's a fantasy that many CDers have. Come to think of it, lots of guys have it too, who aren't CDers. And yes, there are GGs who are into the domme/sub lifestyle too on both sides of the coin. People have all kinds of sex that isn't vanilla. There's a rather good site called Fetlife you should have a look at. You will see there's quite a variety of sexual tastes out there. I went to a local BDSM demonstration evening once because I was curious. It was in quite a large hall with a few demonstrations, knot-tying, lots of vendors, people into all sorts of different things. It was a public demonstration (for members of Fetlife only) so there was no nudity. There must easily have been 300 people in that room, and I only saw a handful of CDers. One thing about the people in that community: they are up front and honest, they discuss all the rules clearly beforehand, and most of all, they fully respect anyone's boundaries. No surprises. I gained a lot of respect for them.

[AliceMeetsTheWizard]

It would take days out of my life to read everything that's been said here. However, I don't believe there is anything wrong with being submissive. I'm a straight guy, and not bisexual, more into the role reversal thing. To me, not being in charge is fun, but I prefer straight girls with a little "extra curricular help". I'm trying to be PC about it do I don't get edited. I'm not personally attracted to guys but it's hard for me to believe there's anybody who enjoys the dress that hasn't at least fantasized about the actions involved with the clothes. I enjoy being asked if I like something for a change. And with the three straight girls I've been with as a a CD? I think it did them good as well to feel what it feels like to wonder if you're hurting someone, or if you were good, or how it felt etc etc.

The whole world would be a better place if everyone role reversed at last once...just sayin.

[Rachel87]

To add one more oddball to the bucket, if at all, I'm attracted to femininity, whatever gender is under the clothes ;). Just because I have some curiosity, doesn't mean I can't be a good husband, love and commitment is above everything else. I had GG GF before, and enjoyed the relationship very much even never telling her about my crossdressing. But I can't speak for anyone else, if my current situation makes any sense at all, there must be all kinds of shades of gray and tagging any of those shades with words can by highly misleading. I guess if you ask people what a bi-sexual is exactly, you would come up with a different answer from each person.

[Shananigans]

I don't understand why people say those things. I know a lot of girls that get drunk and want to kiss another girl...because, I guess there's a song about it. (?) But, I knew I was a little weird a young age...before I even knew the actual words to describe my sexuality. It is weird for many people too...especially if word gets around in the locker room that you are "gay." So, therefore, you are about up jump every girl you see. (?) What is worse is that I never really knew what it was that made me feel so weird. Sex and relationships were described to me as being between a man and a woman. My parents didn't go into the other technicalities. So, at about age 7-8 (Maybe earlier), I knew I was weird. I didn't know the words for what was weird about me. As I got a little bit older (about 11 or 12), I knew I was into women in a way other women weren't. At about 13, I actually found out what lesbians were....from Cinemax (at night) lol. It was a holy sh*t moment of revelation. It wasn't until a bit later I learned that you could actually like BOTH, and then it was like, "Oh my God...I understand that I am bi. This is what's wrong with me." At about that same time (13 or 14), I was talking to a girl that I knew was a lesbian. When the school started calling her a freak, I pretty much abandoned her and the friendship. Yeah, I was pretty sh*tty. Then, I decided I wanted no one to know.

For some reason, I think drunk college girls that want to try out bisexual for a minute to get attention arent going through the same things. And, usually when a girl tries to kiss me (that isn't into girls), things get a little weird after she realizes that the kiss wasn't exactly the peck or whatever she was expecting. And, then, you have the girls that get totally confused and you have to hear their lifestory about being Christian.

Being "different" usually sucks for everyone in some way. You might as well get used to it now...as sad as that sounds.


Oh definitely, it goes something like:

Bisexual women: Doing it for the attention.
Bisexual men: Gay. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just plain ol' gay.

It is interesting though that submissiveness in men is seen as such a negative thing, anything but the man being in charge of everything means he is a failure and deserves mockery.
I wonder how much damage that has done...

My mom gave up almost everything, I would never ask that of anyone as it's completely unfair.
*halo*

[rochy1]

I'll cast my vote with the "bi/gay while dressed" group - in guy mode I don't really think of other males in a sexual way, but while dressed I enjoy gay contact.

So I guess that makes me straight, or bi, or gay. Whatever :)

[NathalieX66]

I'm going to pipe in here and tell you what I've been told, and what I've observed:

I'm not even going to bother mentioning the dominant/submissive thing.

I was a t a seminar at a transgender conference, and a the speaker did a study was done with over 1000 people (moi included) who identify as transgender. I don't remember the exact specific stats, but the percentage of TG that are heterosexual is in the range of 40-something percent, the TG's that identify as bisexual is also in the 40-something percent. Homosexuals account for something around 10 percent. This study is still ongoing, and I hope there are more like this. It's hard to say whether the conditions for the study were ideal, or whether they actually represent the overall population. That's why more research needs to be done.

Now
My personal observation, being at TG events, gay & LGBT establishments (...i'm a pretty boring hetero guy, btw), and I will tell you that most TG's that I know personally, or have met, are either straight, married, ......or they are bisexual. I know a few that are in open relationships with a woman, but have a bi side. Either way, the number of outright gay CD/TG folks I've met seem to be a bit outnumbered. That being said, it could just be my peer group that I associate with.

[DCChris]

I don't know what box to put myself in or what label I should even apply. I'm predominately hetero when en femme or not. Been with other women while en femme on several occasions. But, here's the big but, I've also been with several other CDs on different occasions while en femme and with a couple transgendered women both en femme and in male clothes. On all those occasions, the CDs and the transgendered women presented highly feminine. Now, on the other hand, while I may have fantasized being taken by a man while en femme, when some guys have come on to me I've been really turned off by it (maybe not enough booze, lol).

So, what box am I in, other than the one that says I'm generally happy where I am along this spectrum.

[Jamiegirl1]

Hi Paulette. I am as well. I'd say that I am bigender and bisexual at the same time. That is, I'm interested in dating men while en femme and women while en homme. I don't know if there are many bisexual crossdressers, but we are here and there. I certainly accept you and I think the ladies here are very supportive of all the diversity that the forum has to offer. Thank you for speaking out! - Julie

Same goes for me! while dressed enfemme,I want to be a woman in every way!

[Kate T]

For me sexual intimacy is a culmination and expression of the deep and strong loving relationship between two people.

Monogomous and heterosexual (that person for me is my wife). I have never been attracted to men sexually at all.

[ReineD]

Now, on the other hand, while I may have fantasized being taken by a man while en femme, when some guys have come on to me I've been really turned off by it (maybe not enough booze, lol).

I hope you don't mind that I'm singling out your response, but we often have new wives question whether their husbands secretly are attracted to men, especially after reading many posts in threads like this one from CDers who say they are straight in guy mode but bi while dressed. The writers of some of these posts are indeed bi since they do cite ongoing experiences with men, whether they are dressed or not. But, we have a great deal more posts from members who make this statement without backing it up with actual experiences, which raises the question as to whether or not they might *THINK* they are bi, they might think they have a real attraction to men, based on merely their fantasies of wishing to feel feminine.

Thank you for confirming that no, the reality did not match the fantasy for you and I dare say would not for many of the other members if they actually went out and tried it as well. I can say that my SO also wondered many years ago if she too was bi, and discovered she was not after some real experimentation. :p

[whowhatwhen]

I'm going to argue that someone coming in here looking for, and expecting the worst is, in their mind going to find it.
They're going to skip over the posts about supporting partners and focus on the "I want a dude in my butt" posts.

[ReineD]

I'm going to argue that someone coming in here looking for, and expecting the worst is, in their mind going to find it.
They're going to skip over the posts about supporting partners and focus on the "I want a dude in my butt" posts.

Yes, this happens too. But most times, a simple clarification between what is fantasy vs. the reality is sufficient. :)

[flatlander_48]

More than anything, folks need to remember that sexuality is a spectrum from completely heterosexual to completely homosexual and an infinite range of shades in between. Gender identity, and how we choose to express it, works the same way. Unfortunately, though, many think in terms of a Zero Sum Game. In other words, in order for ME to be OK, it means that YOU cannot be.

Sad...

[Debi]

I totally agree with you flatlander - in my opinion, sexuality has a sliding scale. I describe myself as bi, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to settle down and have a relationship with a guy - I just enjoy sexual encounters with men and women.... leaning way more towards women. Sex is great - sometimes I want it with a girl when I am a guy and sometimes when I am a girl too - sometimes AS a girl - WITH a girl - sometimes as a girl with a guy.

It's no wonder I'm confused! ... Life's too short - if you don't hurt anyone - have FUN - but always - ALWAYS - be SAFE! xxx

[KittyWhite]

I'm straight. Although, if the opportunity presented itself, I'm not sure I'd turn him down. When I'm dressed en femme, I think it would be very fun. But, it wouldn't be an emotional attachment, only sexual.

[JaniceP]

Paulette----Love Women, both when Dressed in Drag as well as Drab!

BUT, Gotta say. When I'm dressed as a Female, I totally give in to the Girly, full FEMININE Personna. TOTALLY Love being a Girl and can see me giving into letting my Girly Self resting my head on a strong shoulder and being treated in a Girly Fashion.

[ReineD]

Interestingly, the "trend" for the majority of answers in any given thread entirely depends on the way the original question was asked. :p

I just want to post or log here, a recent thread that was closed after just one day because really in essence it is a duplicate of this thread, but still the overwhelming majority of answers are "straight" because the question asked was "straight or gay".

Here's a link to the thread (for reference only since it is closed, and only to add to the data in this thread), and a tally of the answers:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?172288-Gay-or-straight./page2

Total posts: 39

Opening and closing posts: 2

Non answers/general comments/people posting twice: 8

Straight: 25 (86%)

Gay: 2 (7%)

Bi: 2 (7%)

[BunnieCashmere]

You're not alone, I'm -very- bi, although I'm mostly a crossdresser for sexual reasons. lol

[Marla]

Im bi but lean toward men. Ive had sex with men when dressed and enjoyed it a lot. I also enjoy women but it always seems more complicated. Soooo no!! Youre not alone in this bunch.

[Ashley Jade]

Same here! The reason I even started dressing so long ago was that I knew I was bi, but when I would think of being with a man, I wanted to be his woman.

[CassieV]

Definitely bi. Actually, pan, if you don't mind buzzwords. Definitely prefer the male form, but happily married to a GG all the same.