Hrm...Male? Female? What impact has it had?

[Asako]

This is a train of thought that I've been kicking around inside my head for ages and am curious to hear what others think on the subject. Keep in mind that I am one of those who has a bit more fluid gender identity than most.

A few months back, I helped a friend change his transmission fluid. Almost a year ago, we dropped the gas tank to replace the fuel pump that is MOUNTED to the damned gas tank. I help this friend work on his car any time he does something to it. Any time one of us does work on their car, the other is there helping in whatever way they can.

After I had came home from changing the transmission fluid and took a shower, I started wondering how much being born male has affected me. I don't mean that in a bad way either! =) What I've contemplated is this:How has being born as your biological gender HELPED you in life?

I've always enjoyed doing things with my hands. It doesn't matter if it's clacking away at the keyboard, building something, working on a car, sweating my arse off while digging dirt, etc.. I don't mind getting dirty when doing something. Whether I had already transitioned or not, I would have still been underneath my friend's car helping him drop his transmission oil pan so that we could replace the filter and trans oil. I would have still helped my grand parents build their privacy fence. I would still work on my car and do monthly check-ups on it. My gender, regardless of where it may fall on the spectrum, doesn't dictate what I do and/or don't do.

That is my answer. It may change as my journey progresses but I hope it doesn't. If it were to change, that would most likely make me sad. So now, I ask you the same question: How has being born as your biological gender HELPED you in life?

[kellycan27]

Whatever works for you... Personally I don't like getting greasy, and I hate having my hands get dirty, but then again I ride a Harley, dirt bikes, quads and love fast cars........

[Maria Ann]

In my case I have tried to excel in certain areas, such as working on cars, computers, building things out of wood, shooting, and many others, because of having to hide who I truly am.

[Anna B]

...because of having to hide who I truly am.

Maria, I quite agree with your comment here. I have done many "male" things for the same reason.

Anna x

[Julia_in_Pa]

Since I was born intersexed my doctor chosen gender turned me into nothing more than a very angry bully.

I thoroughly despised myself and others and physically beat those that caused me pain.

Once in college, my life's veil was raised and I was finally able to concentrate on my studies and my eventual transition.

There was never any sort of male role model in my life and I never needed one.

Everything I learned and the skills I developed I owe to the women in my life and of course my self.

I was responsible for everything I am today.

Any sort of inferior male genetics I'm plagued with I have been able to successfully wipe clean from my soul.


Julia

[Aprilrain]

I don't like grease but I do like building things out of wood. I have taken up sewing cause it's not as heavy as carpentry and I get to hang out with woman instead of neadertals. I watch with amused scepticizm every time I see a man with a power tool! Sure some of them know what they are doing but most just think they know what their doing : P

[Melody Moore]

To be honest, I don't like getting dirty, but because I grew up on a farm and was expected to do certain
chores, you would be kidding yourself if you think you can do it without getting dirty. So getting dirty was
something I got use to, especially when you manage to bog farm vehicles in knee deep mud if ever I got
the chance. Yes there was a method to my madness for doing this...

This was one of many ways how I got my payback for being made a slave to my father :D

Dad taught me a lot about building, renovations, mechanics and agriculture & livestock however when he really
pushed me too hard and got me upset I use to purposely sabotage whatever we were working on. Another trick
of mine was to hold a tape measure short of a point he was measuring from so when he cut materials he was short
by 1/4-1/2"or so. Even though I was very shy, deep down I was a brat as a child because of how I was mistreated.

I might have been very shy, but I certainly wasn't stupid & this is
what happens when you force a child to be something they are not.

[Asako]

I knew this thread would open a VERY volatile can of worms.

Since I spoke about perspectives in my opening post...let's touch on what school was like for me and the perspective I have on it. All through out school, I was bullied and shunned by my class mates. Friends were far and few between. Any time I'd make a friend, they would eventually turn their backs on me. Maybe I wasn't a "good friend" as a kid. I don't know. What I do know is that, even in high school, I was bullied and harassed. Sounds depressing right? It can be, even for me at times. However, if not that, I wouldn't be the mentally strong person I am today. I can honestly say that being "not ok" with being born male and all the problems that come with that would have KILLED ME by now if not for those people. It wasn't fun going through those years with few or no friends along with all the bullies and harassment but it made me a stronger person. It is all in the perspective that I choose to look at things.


In my case I have tried to excel in certain areas, such as working on cars, computers, building things out of wood, shooting, and many others, because of having to hide who I truly am.In a way, you may have possibly benefited from doing those things. It's all in the perspective in which you CHOOSE to look at things. They may be times of regret for you. Hell, for all I know, you may have HATED doing those things. However, you still learned about those things and in the future, what you learned from doing those things may serve you well. Again, it's all in how you choose to look at it. While you may have stated it clearly in your head as you typed, all I get on the receiving end is text. I lack a tone of voice and body language to help me understand exactly how you feel about it. Granted, the text alone tells me you didn't really enjoy doing those things and regret it. Am I right or wrong on how I understood your post?


Any sort of inferior male genetics I'm plagued with I have been able to successfully wipe clean from my soul.
I don't know your life, the things you been through, or for that matter...anything about you. I most certainly haven't lived your life either. I may heavily disagree with your perspective on male genetics and all else the wording you chose implies but, if you don't mind sharing something so personal, I would be very interested in hearing about your perspective on what it's like being born in the middle.


If any of this came off as patronizing, preaching, etc., then I apologize for that is NOT my intent. My intent is to pose a perspective that may make others think and as they respond, I learn about them. So again, if anything came across as saying "YOU ARE WRONG!", then please tell me why you took it that way so I can avoid a miscommunication with you in the future because that is NOT what I'm saying. I ask that of you because text is all any of us have to work with here on this board to understand what others are saying. There is no "body language" or "tone of voice" to work with so we're basically missing 2/3rds of the clues we rely on to understand how someone is saying something.

Different perspectives lead to different answers even on the same question. Your perspectives may make me think of something I haven't considered before which, in turn, could lead to me understanding more about myself. Sorry for being long winded. I get like that at times when people make me think. =)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

You can't say "if" i change, then i "will" be sad...it's a strawman... if you don't change, then transition is pretty worthless....if you change, you will be happy with the changes or just don't make those changes...

anything a male does (outside of biological function) a female can do as well.. there is simply no reason to sweat it...every single thing you do today can be done by a woman....

it's a good positive attitude to say that you can deal with your birth gender by trying to look on the bright side...things you learned etc... but its not gonna help you to imagine a future where you grow as a person and then imagine that it will make you feel sad...

[Lorileah]

Just wondering where it is written that females cannot do things OR you must be a male to do things. Social stigma placed by a society.

[Asako]

@Kaitlyn:There are quite a few gems of wisdom in your post and will spin the gears of my mind for quite a while. I will definitely get back to you as the thoughts, questions, and answers flow through my mind. I mean it when I say it was very thought provoking on how I view my answer to the question in my opening post.

@Lorileah:It makes me wonder how much of my answer and question is rooted in that social stigma. As with Kaitlyn, I will get back you when I have thought this over and have a train of thought to pass over and examine.

This is part of why I posed the question in the first place. As I consider new perspectives on my answer and question, I come to more realizations, questions, and answers about myself. If I don't understand myself, then what do I really understand? A question that could drive one insane.

[Rianna Humble]

anything a male does (outside of biological function) a female can do as well..

In high heels and backwards in the case of one well-known woman :heehee:

[noeleena]

Hi,

Im a builder by trade & done many other things worked on farms heavy gear tractors trucks what ever needed fixing or built steel or timber.... now ....is there any difference . well of cause not & why should there be .

Being I S well not that i can see, dont really care what im dressed in i am a woman & why cant women do the same as men well infact they / we do. wheres this notion we cant , dont get me on to the war years, .......

Im not a girle girl just a all out woman who can put her hands to most things.

I hope you have those cars jacked & blocked no slips thank you. grease ers.....I maintain our trucks & 4 x 4 .

& our daughter has worked for me on painting sanding cleaning house's plus other things , so why not,

Any way many men cant even use a hammer so its not about men verse's women in work related details . its about not every one can do the same thing. there is not one better than the other its about some can some cant,
We have a guy he's lovely & calls me in to do jobs at the Museum because he cant do what i can . how does he see me , only as a woman with experance who helps him out. & i like doing that,

If this ....was ....about transtioning then i missed that boat i never did nor could have, i did not change i have grown as a woman very diffferent,

...noeleena...

[Asako]

@Kaitlyn:The first thing that comes to mind while really thinking about your post is this: Is a part of me still clinging to the "mask"? I would think so. There is no real ground basis on which I say that but that is just what it feels like. That is the general thought that rules my mind when I think about your post.

As for imagining a future that makes me happy and yet being sad over the changes...that is possibly me being naive. I have no idea what's going to happen over the next 2-3 months with the majority of life much less with transitioning. Before I fell into the 9 month long depression, it would have scared me. I don't know where that fear has gone. Maybe I locked it away in the back of mind in an effort to not deal with it? If I may say so, not quite a healthy way to approach it. It's kind of like what Morpheus said to Neo in the Matrix. "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path." I just hope I don't stray from the path to a future that makes me happy. =)

I will require more thought on Lorileah's, noeleena's, and Melody's posts. It may be a day or 3 days before I return to this thread but I will spend time thinking about what has been said by others. Though, I will address one part of noeleena's post.

Steel tire ramps and solid blocks. We always work on solid level ground(concrete). After all, we're trying to fix a problem...not create another. =)

[abigailf]

All I can say is had I been born female or transitioned at a younger age, I would be in a much different place. I am sure I would still have the same core values, but just in a different place.

I can not say if that place would be better or worse; just different.

As far as enjoying boy vs girl things. I like to be pampered. My ideal R&R is to lay on an island beach while the hotel service brings me Pina Coladas and water.

My philosophy: Why do your self when you can get someone else to do for you :) (however, if you want it done right ... pay more money).

[Julia_in_Pa]

@@@ Asako

Being born in the middle was "normal" for me due to the fact that I never had any male role models around growing up.

My adopted mother was an intellectual holding her PhD in secondary education.

She never married.

I was raised by her and my adopted grandmother.

I was taught to tolerate men and be civil to them but not to trust them.

This is a belief that I still hold close to my heart.

Any attempt by me concerning a relationship with a man outside of having a gay male friend has resulted in disappointment and failure.

I've attempted three romantic relationships with men but they all turned out to be the norm when it comes to men.

They were users and pigs.

I've used many men for sex and whatever else. At the end of the day you toss them aside as the garbage they are.

I'm now in a committed relationship with a lesbian GG.

This relationship is based on love, mutual respect and honesty.



Julia

[ReineD]

My gender, regardless of where it may fall on the spectrum, doesn't dictate what I do and/or don't do.

That is my answer. It may change as my journey progresses but I hope it doesn't. If it were to change, that would most likely make me sad.

From a GG's standpoint, I think your attitude is refreshing! :)

I also agree that the things we enjoy doing to occupy our time have nothing to do with our genders.

Personally, I love to build things and do home repairs and I don't care if I break a nail. It give me a deep sense of accomplishment, although I am limited with upper body strength and physical endurance (I'm in my 50s). :)

I also love to cook, ski, draw, paint, and do any type of puzzle. I hate to think that my gender limits me to only certain activities. Oh, and just as sometimes I don't care if I break a nail or get a bad haircut, I also enjoy dressing up and looking nice.

[melissaK]

How much of being male or female is social vs biological? Must be 10,000 books discussing it. All I know is Ashley Force drives a pretty mean funny car, and Rosey Grier did needle point better than my grandma. And I'd rather be Ashley.

[Alyla]

Asako,

From a GM's standpoint, I think your attitude is refreshing!

I also agree that the things we enjoy doing to occupy our time have nothing to do with our genders.

Personally, I love to build things and do home repairs and I don't care if I break a nail. It give me a deep sense of accomplishment, although I am limited with upper body strength and physical endurance (I'm in my 50s).

I also love to cook, ski, draw, paint, and do any type of puzzle. I hate to think that my gender limits me to only certain activities. Oh, and just as sometimes I don't care if I break a nail or get a bad haircut, I also enjoy dressing up and looking nice.

My apologies to Reine for stealing her quote. Being born in the mid fifties, I am now in my mid fifties. Ironic isn't it. As I was growing up the world was a very strange place. Nuclear proliferation, Cold Wars, Viet Nam, hippiedom, the women's movement, rebellion against dress codes in schools. And now I look around me and chuckle about all the things humanity has learned about itself. Some things have changed, granted; from each of our own perspectives.

Now growing up I was in an unusual position. I was suppose to be the first girl born in three generations in my family, at least that's what everyone of my relatives hoped for. So.... you ask? Well they should have been careful what they wished for. ::sarcastic smirk:: Now, couple that with my father being diagnosed as a manic depressive in the early 60's, I was absent a father for six months of every year because the meds would straighten his bent bar, and he would go off them as he was feeling well, then return to the hospital. Okay that is just background.

So the question is what did I learn, that is valuable from the gender side of the equation. Well, my Mom taught me how to be a flamboyant dresser. ::laughs:: Paisley shirts with puffy silk sleeves, worn with bell bottom pants with a lace up fly. By the gods, did the boys tease me. Her hairdresser had a friend, with a son, that all my classmates called gay. My Mom loved for me to hang with him. In school I liked art, drama, drawing, was a member of the poetry club, one of two male members. I had two younger brothers and my mom worked, so I learned to do laundry and cook for my siblings, as well as watch the kids until she got home from work. Now, I learned to refinish furniture from my Mom, because we would go to sales and buy stuff and fix it up for either us or for sale.

So where am I going with this? I learned a lot of things out of necessity. I did all the boy things, building models, pickup games of baseball, looking at nudie magazines, teasing the girls. Somethings I am not very proud of these days. But I have moved on from those times and I am evolving into a new manifestation or creation of myself.

Now let's swing for the whole tangential fence (should have added an "R&S", just to stay on topic). so what I have learned, experienced, and walked through I will take with me, it is me and I am no longer afraid of myself. Now one final comment, not really, nothings final, I believe from the core of my being that anyone is capable of accomplishing anything, if necessity is your mother. I have learned to fix almost any mechanical thing I have to, from automobiles to appliances. I taught myself to run a small sewerage treatment plant, I have served as a local elected official, I run my own business in the hospitality industry. I still cook, have my servesafe license, I can operate a sewing machine, after all the rule in my house is that the male must operate anything with a motor, makes me guffaw every time she tells me that. I refuse to be binary, I am not a Hollerith card or a laptop, I am fluid, like the ocean, moving from one shore to the other. I don't wear a badge on my sleeve, I don't make out in public, I just am, somethings are personal, others aren't. Nothing I have written here should be taken personal by another, these comments are about me and nothing else or none one else. Just love and be grateful. And help stomp out misogyny, only good things will happen for all of us.

Well, take this piece of paper crumble it up, and toss it over there in the corner in that round file cabinet, 'cause I just went over the deep end, and no longer know of what I speak. Thanks for bearing with me, and my a typical associations.

Love and peace to all,
Alyla

And no, I quit drinking years ago.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Personally, I never had a male role model or friend to learn anything from. All my friends since as long as I can remember were female as well as my role models.

Work on a car? I know how to stick the key in the ignition....well....that was until my daughter had me drive her "push" button start BMW. What kind of guy dreamed that up and didn't let me know you have to press the fricken brake pedal all the way in? Took me five phone calls to figure that one out. Men!!!!!!

[Asako]

@Julia:Thank you for responding to my question of what it's like "in the middle". It's a perspective that I'll only ever be able to see "through the looking glass" on. When I look at people, that's all I see. People. Not male, female, or anything gender-wise. So, relationship-wise, I'm open minded to just about anyone. Emotionally attracted to men. Physically attracted to women. Every once in a while I will find someone that I'm physically and emotionally attracted to like someone that I work with right now.


@Reine:Cooking, skiing, drawing, painting, and any type of puzzle? Some of those hobbies I can relate to. Cooking is especially fun whereas you can "in general" mix, match, and/or substitute your likes(or others) instead of what a recipe calls for. For example, diabetic? You can still enjoy cookies if you use something like Stevia. It'll mean changing up the recipe a bit. You might even need a different kind of flour but it's still possible and that's what my mom enjoys about cooking. She can read about a great sounding recipe and tailor it to our tastes.

On another note, one's hobbies can often speak about what kind of person someone is. I'd say you're not only an intellectual but also creative person. =) Possibly right brain activity. Iirc, that's the creative section of the brain. Since you also enjoy puzzles, I'd also say you are able to "think outside the box" when it comes to tackling problems. Observation is merely a power for putting together a perspective whether be on a person or a way of thinking. ^.^

My hobbies entail music, programming, reading, writing stories(more often fantasy), playing games, and fishing. What do my hobbies say to others about me? That, I wonder too sometimes. Then there's the times where I think so much that I over think things and the point becomes nil. I think this is possibly one of those times. =)