Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StephanieT]

On Sunday night I told my wife about my desire to dress and get a professional makeover. Told her about my past and dressing as a child. She does not know I currently do it. I have been living in a firestorm for the past 4 days. Sometimes she acts accepting and other times it is a living hell. We have been going to counseling for other issues and discussed the dressing at our session on Tues. The counselor was open and suggested we negotiate my dressing. Tonight my wife is at work and sent me links to the following 2 web sites. Looks like I am going to hell.
http://www.firststone.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=7579
I know she has looked at other sites with differing points of view by looking at the browsing history. I am absolutely floored at how closed minded she is. I really think I need to get out of my home.

[prettytoes]

Does your wife ever wear jeans, t-shirts, sweats, anything that may be considered masculine? If she does, according to the second link she will be joining you in Hell. If she really loves you, she will get over it. My wife was pretty upset and jumped to many unfounded conclusions when she first found out about my dressing. Now, she is pretty understanding, but there are some boundries that I happily honor. Mainly, no skirts or dresses in front of her, but painted toenails, panties, nighties, yoga pants and capris, legs and pits shaved, etc. are all ok. Good luck!

[charlytuna]

I don't know anything about your married but I do know the first thing a women thinks [my wife feel this way] that you are aother women in bed with her and she doesn't want. This is heavey to lay it out on her all at once. I told mine before we got married she hard time accepting it it mainly because she doesn't understand. First I say is be honest with her and your true feeling and take her feeling seriously. It may take some time but stick with your relation with her and do not push yourself on her. She needs time for all this to sink in Just be a good husband to her. I still have problem with my needs to dress and her needs for me to be a man, still after 32 yrs.

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Crikey, I hope all goes well. I think she needs time and you need to cool it a little. Let the therapist/councilor do their job. One thing I really stress over is when religion is brought up in an argument and is used as a weapon. I find that if one needs to bring that up, then one has no ability to argue fairly.

[StephanieT]

I have cooled it. Not pushing the dressing. Not sure how much more verbal abuse and degradation I can take.

[AnitaH]

StephanieT

This can be a real shock for your wife it will take some time for her to sort through her thoughts on this. It may go either way with her. You need to show her that you are the same man (or even a better man) than you have always been. Go out of your way to show her you still love her.

In answer to the links you posted. Religious arguments can be made either way about cross-dressing. There are many that have taken a very hard stand on either side of the argument. We can become the victim of both sides when compassion does not rule. I could say a lot more about the issue but it may be better in the religious forum.

AnitaH
Go

[Eryn]

Tonight my wife is at work and sent me links to the following 2 web sites. Looks like I am going to hell.
http://www.firststone.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=7579
I know she has looked at other sites with differing points of view by looking at the browsing history. I am absolutely floored at how closed minded she is. I really think I need to get out of my home.

You need to ask her if she actually believes the sites that she reads. The Landover Baptist Church is a parody!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church

You don't need to get out of your house. If she can't handle things then she might want to leave but it is as much your house as hers. If you leave it gives her ammunition in the event of a divorce.

My best suggestion is for both of you to step back and take a break. If you let emotions take over the outcome will not be good for either of you. You need to keep communication open and wait until both of you can discuss the issue rationally.

[jillleanne]

Stephanie, as you well know, there are many others in your position if you will. You know what you have now and how that's going. You must weigh the importance of your marriage and any decision you make regarding it. I have always believed that it's easier to quit than fight for what you want but we all can reach a point whereby the fight has all but left the room and I have always been a fighter. You must decide what's best for you first and everyone else second if you want happiness for you. If you are willing to sacrifice your happiness if necessary, to any degree, then the decision you make may be something different. I just hope you can separate the issues in your lives, your dressing and any other issues affecting your happiness, and see if there is any way to come to an agreement that will satisfy you both in the short term with the intention and determination to continue on to solve any issue longterm.

[RiverdanceGirl]

Hmm, yeah well I read those links and just be nice I will say I found them to be not my thoughts at all. We all have the right to be who we are. Can't say anymore because what was in those links - I don't want to use bad language.

[StephanieT]

Did a little research and found this.
http://goarticles.com/article/Landover-Baptist-Church-It-s-a-Parody-folks/1483502/

[Marleena]

Stephanie, I hate stories like this. She needs to read an article or book made for wives of crossdressers. Counselling needs to go on, ask for a referral for one that specializes in gender issues. Since you're both already in counselling coming out did not help at all. Good luck.

[evadan]

Stephanie - all I can say is hang in there. If your wife had no inkling of your crossdressing tendencies, then your confession was a huge shock for her. I recently told my wife and it was somewhat of a shock to her although we have experimented with lingerie in bed a number of times. She went through a roller coaster emotional process of glad to know, to denial and questioning her own worth, to conditional acceptance. We are taking it slowly.

I too am a committed Christian and I don't know the answer as to whether it is a sin. But I feel that if my need to dress and the act of dressing interfere with my relationship with the Lord, then it's ok for me. I don't feel ashamed about it and I don't have a desire to tell anyone else. It's just another part of my complex personality and spirit. I do know that when I dress I feel complete and whole; and that feeling continues afterwards. God made me this way for a reason. I also know that I'm not going to change.

Give her time and space. Answer her questions. Cherish your marriage. Love your wife.

Eva

[docrobbysherry]

Stephanie, as a divorced man, I'm not qualified to give u advice on your wife. However, I AM worried about u! U need to be able to accept yourself for who u r. Including your CDing!

Hopefully, u realize the writer of the blog wrote mostly breast thumping hyperbola? Selectively choosing bible passages translated to suit him? I think it's wonderful that he conquered his CD demons, for THE MOMENT! However, let's see if he feels the same about his dressing desires in 10 or 20 years! Because he hasn't really dealt with it. Rather simply sublimated it for the time being! And, I appreciate his excitement in feeling he's won his battle with himself. Of course, he wishes to share his "success" with others! Much as born agains sometimes try to get all their friends involved when they feel they've conquered their drug, alcohol, etc. addictions! They wish EVERYONE to feel like they do. Unfortunately, for some, they will be backsliding soon enuff. Unless they properly deal with their problems!

Remember, crossdressing is NOT like drug, alcohol addictions! If u don't let it take over your life, u can dress without hurting any of your friends or family! I suggest u seek out sypathetic couselors and ministers that have more open minded and modern views about dressing. That it's generally a harmless pursuit. Unless taken to extremes! Please try to understand your wife WITHOUT letting her views indoctrinate u!

Remember, we're here for u!

[sissystephanie]

I was raised in the Episcopal Church and became a Catholic when I got married in 1955. Neither of those religeons consider crossdressing to be a sin, according to both Priests and Archbishops!! The Biblical statements made in the OP were taken from the Old Testament, and the world does not live that way now. Crossdressing was used by men in those days as a way to get into the womens section of the Temple to get a woman, or as a way to stay out of the Army.

I was fortunate in that I told my wife I was a crossdresser when I proposed to her. She accepted me as is, and we had almsot 50 happy years together before cancer took her! if I were you I would continue to use the Therapist, along with your wife. Also, never forget that she married a man and that is you!! Show her that you are still her man, no matter what you are wearing!! BTW, you can stop crossdressing if you really want to!! It is purely mental. so how strong is your mind?

[JulieK1980]

For the second link she gave you, you should ask her if she is willing to submit to your "beat regimen" as that site also supports corporal punishment for wives that disobey their husbands. If she supports the one verse on that site, then perhaps she should support ALL the views on that site. Otherwise she is simply picking and choosing which "sins" are against God.
:brolleyes:

Actual religious views on crossdressing are rather mixed. There is no clear interpretation to guide those of us that are religious. It really boils down to the interpretation of the bible by individual churches. MANY churches do NOT see crossdressing as sin. The verse in the link you posted is from the old testament which is not followed by most religions as pertinent to the modern world and our understanding of Christianity.

[Jenniferathome]

Wow! I'm sorry to hear about your situation but I have to state hat religion nod cross dressing have nothing in common. Here is interesting take on some of the many abominations in the bible: http://allthingsqueer.co.za/archives/religion/60.html

[Ellyn]

I do not worry myself about what the church leaders say. There are very few of them who understand the Bible. They do not look into the many figures of speech that are found in the scriptures, and try to take every word as translated to be literal. And when it does not fit their belief, they creat another translation more corrupted than the last. When you take the scriptures as they apply where and when they were written they often give a far different meaning. When you take the often used admonition that a man should not put on women's clothes there are two things to consider. First, at the time of it's writing, the clothes worn by men were skirts. See Psalms 133:2. But of course, skirts were both women's and men's clothing at this time. In those times it was a practice in fighting or flight to "gird up the loins" which meant to pull the loose skirt up through the legs and secure it under the belt so it would not interfere with the legs when running. That formed a sort of pants out of the skirt. Secondly, the meaning of the admonishion was not simply against putting on clothes of the opposite sex; It was a warning not to indulge in the debauchery of the times found in the pagan temples of the time in which sexual orgies were carried on involving sexual acts and performances involving buggery, lesbianism, and just about any sexual perversion you could find on the internet today. Should I add the words, "much as we find going on in certain churches and in some political groups today"? (Got doubts? Try a search of Sandusky sexual abuse: http://www.henrymakow.com/is_sandusky_part_of_a_larger_p.html ). There are many sexual warnings in the bible that are poorly understood. Take for example Genesis 9:22 "And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father". Few people know what it means. It does not mean that Ham looked at his naked father, in spite of what the words say. It means that Ham had sexual intercourse with his father's wife. See Leviticus 20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness" This is an example of a figure of speech. If I asked you to "Go out and paint the town red" would you go to a paint shop? Get the idea? That is an example of a figure of speech. I do not claim to be an authority on the Bible, but I have studied it under a few good teachers, and advise that should you want to understand the truth, start by taking it line by line, verse by verse, book by book, rather that picking a verse here and a verse there to fit into someones belief system. It will fall into place and it explains itself. Hope this helps.

[Lorileah]

Did you know there is enough gas in PopRocks to inflate a tire if you break down? That the Kennedy assassination was dreamed up by a small tribe who relocated from Africa to South Philly and started Doo Wop? We won't get into interpretations of a book that has been rewritten and edited over the course of thousands of years. Eve is the reason of all sin, and thus many religious groups considered being female a sin to start (see that is one reason there is not caveat about women lying with women or trading clothes).

Next logical (?) argument in what exactly are the clothes that are gender specific? Is there a list somewhere n that book that says Pants=man Dress=woman? No there isn't. In fact the gown that was worn at the time is suspiciously like a caftan....which is a "woman's" garment. If someone can produce a list please post it so that I can do my Christmas shopping.

As mentioned there are disagreements throughout the book. Selling children into slavery=OK, No clothing of two fibers (sorry no spandex/cotton clothing), Marrying many women=OK (as long as you can afford to support them), keeping a losing person from the war as your slave=OK (and allowing the sexual assault of the women and killing them afterward...in fact killing is both OK and NOT OK). Killing your neighbor to covet his wife...OK early...not so OK now. You cannot pick and choose through out the book to do what you like and ignore other parts (and yet everyone does). Seems there was something about worshiping an Icon (that is going to mess up next month for sure..Oh Tannenbaum Oh Tannenbaum...). BTW the argument that Old vs New...When a law is repealed the old law is removed from the books, that will make the book a lot smaller and easy to carry won't it?

All this is a moot point though. You can argue and point fingers and thump the book all you want.. You can use point and counterpoint. You can argue meaning vs written context. It won't matter. You have to educate your wife as to what is real and what is fallacy. You see if you say something twice it becomes fact. When you say something twice it becomes fact. That is a fact (look it up I think it is in Wiki). But you can tell her about the inconsistencies, you can probably even do a power-point slide show with circles and arrows and a paragraph explaining each one. But it won't help. You see, you cannot teach those who don't want to learn. If you argue that she can do ______ thus you can she will just dig in and fight harder (see above about list of men's vs women's clothing...I still have not received the list.)

So what to do? Right now back off and cool out. Forcing the hand won't gain you support. That doesn't mean roll over and play dead. Just cool your jets. Try and talk. Why is this an issue? Is it all because of the book? There are many books out there. Is it because she is afraid? Ah! Ha! Yes she is afraid. She is afraid of what others have said. She isn't afraid from personal experience. She has never had that before (likely). If I said a strawberry tastes like sewage and you had never had a strawberry, then you have two possible outcomes A) you don't know what sewage tastes like and you taste the strawberry and you like it so yo start looking to eat sewage? (someone is going to be surprised) OR you know that sewage isn't very tasty and you never try a strawberry (see Native Americans telling encroachers about how tomatoes are poisonous). Dressing is a strawberry that has gained a bad rap. I will say it again (and maybe this is the second time so it becomes fact) they are just clothes. The cloth holds no special powers (well spandex might but see above). The cloth does not make you gay, or transsexual, or super(wo)man. It is what is in your mind that makes the cloth special. And if you need it for sex, then it is a fetish and you have to address that like you would any other fetish with your wife ( you know chandeliers, whipped cream...oh wait while I take a bite of my pumpkin pie...the INTERwebs). If you like the texture and feel and the look then you have to address that with your wife (you see Dear, I like taffeta like you like comfortable cotton Apples/apples). If you think you are transsexual then you need to discuss that with her so that she can make a decision about how she spends the rest of HER life and respect that.

One thing that needs to be pointed out, you are the same person you were before she found out about the dressing. You did not become an ogre ( I think that is a nightly thing if I remember Shrek) when you told her. It doesn't mean that you don't have issues. You do and you BOTH need to work on them. If you and she cannot, then you need to move on (or compromise...I think compromise is good myself). The main point here is you cannot fight fire with gasoline (in other words when she says turn to chapter 1:56 you cannot say "see chapter 3:76 where it says YOU are wrong"). Get it? I hear couches are awful cold this time of year. More flies with honey (if you want sticky flies) and all that. This is something that you need to take slowly and calmly (now that you have signed the marriage thingy) if you want to keep that thingy. Love has much power. She chose you over that other clown for a reason (maybe it was how you dressed..I dunno). But love also has it's ups and downs. Usually it wins. Give it a chance

[Tina B.]

When Religion comes up, I usually stay out of the conversation, not a field I know much about. But I would like to say, coming from a small town, we have a very small gay pride parade, maybe 50 people not counting the local collage marching band, They are most of the parade. But my point, even here in a small town, with such a small group parading, there where five different churches there inviting the gay and Trans people to there services, with slogans like , Jesus accepted everyone, and so do we. Before you listen to a lay person on this topic, talk to a pro, it may not be as bad as you think. And for those that point out that passage in the old testament as prove you shouldn't do it, you might remind them the list of things that you are not suppose to do, is a lot longer for the rest of them too. No shell Fish, Pork, no blended fabrics. and on and on, but no one worries about them, just the stuff they don't want to do anyway, and don't want you to do it either.
Tina B.

[Kittie]

Here's some religion for you; the power of Christ compels you to wear a dress.

This isn't the exorcist, this issue is not some supernatural or ethereal being that you can wave a magic wand at and make it disappear, why should religion have any hold over this?

Where in any religious text does it say thou shall not wear clothes of a certain colour, shape and material?

Without trampling on other peoples beliefs, which demand respect for the most part. I question the legitimacy of all religion, especially when it's brought illogically into the fray for the purpose of making someone who is already questioning themselves question themselves further, surely this only causes more pain and frustration - just like many other religions have brought unto others directly or indirectly through their respective means (killing in the name of a god, for example).

[MissMarcie]

StephanieT:
If, indeed your wife has bought into this whole crock of fundamentalist Baptist crap, you’re in for a long rough road. This particular branch of Christianity judges anything and everything. Everything but, that Jack Daniels bottle under the seat that rolls forward when they come to a sudden stop. Bottom line…Jesus was a pretty cool dude and had far more important things to concern himself with than CD-ing.

[Stephenie S]

I am so sorry you have to deal with this issue.

The first link your wife provided you with is fake, fake, fake. Those words were NOT written by an ex-CD. They were written by an ignorant Bible thumper with a clear homophobic agenda. Don't believe a word of it. The second link quotes the OLD Testament, the Jewish Bible, which has NOTHING to do with Christianity. Jesus Christ's words are found in the NEW Testament. I invite you to examine the New Testament for yourself. You will find nothing about CDing there. You WILL find many references to love, forgiveness, and acceptance.

Stephie

[Nigella]

This is not the religious forum. Thread closed.