Why so tarty?

[charliegg]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.

[Eileen]

Charlie,

Guess I am different. I like to dress so as to blend in with the women I will be around. I am most comfortable if I am dressed to match my age, which is mature. Dressing like a tart can be fun and home or if going to a party.

Eileen;)

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Charlie,

I like what I would perceive as a sexy look, but for me at least, I hate the tarty look, in fact I've even been called prim and proper whilst en femme. I know you asked "Why is it that most crossdressers go for that look?" well I don't know if it's "most" or just "quite a few". I think it must be a fantasy thing :confused:

[TGMarla]

I think that there are a lot of CDs who go in for the "tarty" look, however, I am not one of them. Such girls are classified, for lack of a better term, as fetishists. I, however, have never gone in for that look either for myself or for the women that I am attracted to. I prefer a polished, tasteful look that better emulates women in general when they are dressing up. Nice outfits, skirts, dresses, nice shoes, hosiery, and the like. I've never gone in much for PVC, rubber, 5" heels, fishnets, and the like.

[Lauren_T]

CharlieGG, let me say this - the vast majority of CDs tend to be clearly in one of two groups, those who wish to emulate everyday GGs as authentically as they can, and those who enjoy the erotic / fetish aspects of CDing. There are some who indulge in both kinds, but it's safe to say most are one or the other. That, of course, doesn't include the smaller number of us who mix the two genders - we sort of move around in the area between the two instead of switching between the endpoints.

There isn't any hard data on exactly what percentage of CDs belong to each group, but neither group, 'emulation' or 'fetish' CDs, appears to greatly outnumber the other... so in response to your statement, no one can say 'most' crossdressers go for either look. :)

[Deborah]

I don't fit into that category personally. I prefer to look business casual myself. Each to their own and don't knock it or else you'll catch a whole lotta flak lol. ;)

[Wendy me]

oh yes i can get into the tarty look true but thats a at home or in the yard thingy....as far as something to wear out no but at home i think it's fun ....
more so blend in able out ....funable home.........

[MonaSmith]

I tend to just wear what women of my age/station wear, I want to be unnoticed and left to live as I want.

I suppose that a few people like the ultra-feminine look, verging on a parody of women, maybe as part of a fetishistic need or maybe because they have to 'condense ' their female desires down into a few short hours, snatched when and where they can. I have found that the more I dress, the less dressy I feel the need to be. jeans an a t-shirt do me fine these days, and femininity is more my state of mind than my state of dress.

Mona xx

[Lauren Richards]

I don't know about "most" crossdressers, but I am one of those who prefer to blend with my surroundings, whether it be in my favorite business woman garb, or more casual in other surroundings. I have seen plenty of "tarty" crossdressers, but then..have also seen quite a few gg's who tend to lean that way, too. I suspect there are lots of ways to expess ourselves, and we tend to feel comfortable in clothes which allow for that expression. Either way, if it feels good, wear it!

Lauren

[DanaJ]

I have been guilty of tarting it up before - in part because it is sort of fun to me to try lots of different feminine looks - I have shown pix on this site from tomboyish to a French Maid. Plus, my masculine features need to be hidden behind a bit more makeup than the normal GG would need or want to wear.

May I ask, you ask us why we dress tarty, why have you chosen the avatar you have to portray your persona on this forum?

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

only thing on me that is worth showing off is my legs so i dress to show them off and that means skirts that r cheek-a-boo:D

[Jenny Beth]

Having never been one who dressed tarty I can't answer for those who do. However since none of us grew up as girls I think it's fair to say some are going through what some teenage girls do with regard to fashion. Males just never got to play with image the way girls do and I think for some that's where the attraction lies. But for those who are further along the "transgender scale", it's more about blending in and not being noticed. You'll get as many answers here as there are CD's.

[Jan W]

Interesting topic girls.

I recently read something that characterised this very thing.

Donna Reed or Donna Summer.

Definitely Donna Reed here.

[Khriss]

-but ,charlie..out and about in the boots Yer wearin' in the avatar... give most of us..a little "common sense credit" eh ??:eek: :rolleyes: xx"K"
bedroom fantacy,,in the bedroom, no harm no foul eh?

[Dixie Darling]

Charlie,

Just as a matter of information there are a lot of us (crossdressers I'm talking about here) who AREN'T attracted to the 'tarty' look. While I do like high heels (3 inches or so) and glamour length nails, my attraction is more towards the "classy" or "elegant" styles. Of course this preference isn't one that you'd necessarily run down to your local WalMart wearing so it's not practical in the everyday sense. And since I'm a closeted CD, very little of the clothes I have would BE appropriate for everyday wear.

As far as the ultimate look in femininity, this is what my personal tastes are.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

There's a variety of reasons, and each individual has their own set of reasons.

- A fetish for a particular kind of clothing, nails, make-up, etc.

- Wanting to look good/feel sexy. GGs do have a license to be exhibitionistic in ways that aren't really acceptable for men. (Of course, being expected to be on display isn't fun, but we're talking about acting out a fantasy.) Likewise, there aren't clothes (at least to us) that can be make one look/feel as sexy as women's clothes do to a GG. (You may find some form of male clothing just as sexy Charlie, but remember we're projecting our own male sexuality here.)

- Inexperience. As mentioned some of us only can let our femme selves out once in awhile and they're sort of like teenage GGs who are just discovering their womanhood and wear a bit too much make-up and clothes that are a bit too tight. Because most of us dress alone, we don't have parents to tell us "you're not going out dressed like that," nor fears of being labelled the school **** that cause most teenage GGs to tone things down.

- Envy/ambivalence about the power of women's sexuality holds over them. It's a way to "own" that power -- much as tribal people might don a lion skin to "own" its power. In a similar vein, GGs are usually the gatekeepers over how far a sexual encounter goes, so it's often a bit of wish-fulfillment, i.e. if I were a GG I'd never say no. (Easy to say when you don't have to worry about getting pregnant.)

- Accepting society's message that we're "perverts." If cross-dressing is "dirty" then I'll act out being the "dirty woman."

- Having a fetish is more acceptable to themselves than acknowledging gender discomfort. In other words, I'm dressing because it's sexual, not because I might have a feminine side.

While it's true there's definitely a group of Donna Summers and another group of Donna Reeds, it's not necessarily that clear cut. For many CDs, dressing often had a sexual component in their earlier years -- probably because many of us begin around puberty and it gets intertwined with our budding sexuality. Many of us find the sexual component because less important as we grow older, but it doesn't necessarily disappear. These days I generally dress to go out en femme, which means dressing to blend in, but I'll admit there are times when I stay home and dress for pleasure.

[Sweet Susan]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.

To be honest with you, it's kind of fun to look like a ****.

[Shannon]

Darla, once again you deliver the goods! I'm always so impressed with your straight-forward, honest, practical, and sincere comments.

I thought that for once, I'd be able to add to what you were saying, until I got to your last paragraph, and read what I intended to say. So let me reinforce that last point from my experience.

I started dressing up at age 12 in my mother's lingerie. Throughout puberty and adolescence, dressing up for arousal was all there was for me. When I was able to start buying my own lingerie, it was tarty and ****ty, again for the stimulation and this image I had of what I thought was sexual.

Over the years, the dressing for arousal has given way to dressing for a feminine experience. I'm so happy that things have shifted. I think that is why I experience a lot less guilt and shame about by CrossDressing now -- its not about arousal but about femininity.

[ChrissyCrossedLegs]

Ok go on.. I'll admit it seeing as hardly anyone else has.. I am a tart at heart... Sure some of you would argue having seen some of the pics I have posted, but you aint seen how short my skirts are at home - sat here at night.. and most 'nice ladies' don't wear 5" heels.. so yes.. a tart.. Why?
See above from Darla :
"Because most of us dress alone, we don't have parents to tell us "you're not going out dressed like that," nor fears of being labelled the school **** that cause most teenage GGs to tone things down."
Thats a good one for me... No one to tell me I can't.. so I do.

At some point, if the wife will allow, I'll get my PVC boots out and prove my point.. mmm going to take a drop full of courage me thinks ...
SammyJo

[Amelia Moxon]

I never dress tarty, I just don't like it, I very rarely wear heels above 4" and crotch reveiling skirts are a no no for me. I much prefer the smart casual look, a nice pair of shoes or boots with a pair of jeans, or a nice around knee length skirt, and a top that goes with the colour of the shoes, I usually leave my nails unpainted (pink or purple toe nails). I dress to blend in with girls my age group 20-30, so that I am more passable, and look more classy and elegant.

Hugs
Amelia xxx

[Sarahgurl371]

- Having a fetish is more acceptable to themselves than acknowledging gender discomfort. In other words, I'm dressing because it's sexual, not because I might have a feminine side.

While it's true there's definitely a group of Donna Summers and another group of Donna Reeds, it's not necessarily that clear cut. For many CDs, dressing often had a sexual component in their earlier years -- probably because many of us begin around puberty and it gets intertwined with our budding sexuality. Many of us find the sexual component because less important as we grow older, but it doesn't necessarily disappear. These days I generally dress to go out en femme, which means dressing to blend in, but I'll admit there are times when I stay home and dress for pleasure.

Absolutley agree. I started very young,and as I grew into puberty I thought this was purley a fetish thing, intertwined with my sexuality. I thought that since I wasn't sexual with anoybody that I was just acting out my Ideal women fantasy. Also time was a factor, if you don't have alot of alone time, I think we tend to cut to the chase so to speak.

After I admitted to myself that this "wasn't just a fetish" , I have found that these waters run very deep. After admitting to my self and working out what all this means, My therapist said that "fetishes are a front that we put up so that no one else sees whats really going on inside our heads". I have found that there is a femme side to my personality and that despite me always feeling that it is OK for men to express thier feelings, I had a very hard time not being a MANLY MAN. I guess that I have found out that I really dohave some gender issues, and sometimes am a girl.

Now don't get me wrong. There are times that I really enjoy the "tart" look, but they usually are sexual feeling of wanting to be the lusted after partner, and are usually manifestations of want "he" wants from my female partner. I really do enjoy the more femme clothing, the flirty skirts and tops, the confortable shoes, and just regular clothes like jeans etc. I have never allowed myself to experience this component to dressing, now that I have, I find that it is just very comfortable and makes me feel good deep down to see myself as an average women. So many clothes, so little time. I do not think I could ever go back. There is just more to it than sex.

[Billie1]

Charlie,

While I don't regard it as an ultimate expression (that would be too simplistic), it is a fun persona to be. And, I have to admit, I am a tramp at heart!

Since most of my outings are in a club atmosphere, I've found that my choice of clothes are actually quite tame, compared to a lot of the other TG's and GG's that are out there. So, I would guess that I'm right on the middle ground, which is right where I want to be. (Even though sometimes, I try to be 'tastefully ****ty'!:D )

While I do have a pretty good fantasy wardrobe for more private times, slipping into my femme persona is always a blend of exploration, expression, fun, and just trying to stay out of trouble. Sometimes, that works better than others!:p

Ta-Ta,
Billie:luvu:

[urban gypsy]

I dress in the mood that I 'm in what is never tarty.

[Anita]

it all depends on my mood. Yes i like the tarty thing but then again it is fun to look sophisticated and blend in
But whatever lifts your skirt . Just enjoy . Nobody gets hurt and life is too regimented by people like Tony Blair and all thatpoluitically correct claptrap

Well thats my two bobs worth. Some will like it Some won,t but that's life
LOL
xx Dianne (anita):D

[Leilani68]

I do not like the Tart look, just turns me & my Wife off.
I do however like a little Exquisite-yet sexy look.
In other words leave a little for the imagination, that in my mind is the ultimate in sex appeal.....:rose:

[DanaJ]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.Charlie, I must add that your terms are vague here - some might thgink that 1/4 inch of free edge is considered "long", others one inch nails are not long at all. Same with heels - I know GGs that think that 2 inch heels would be considered "high".....

One woman's tarty is another woman's "glam" :D

[NikkiT]

I go for more of a 'costume' look when I dress up. Basically I wear things that would make heads turn even if I was a GG. When I get dressed, I feel that I'm taking on more of a character instead of showing my feminine side. I also tend to wear things like the people at http://www.cosplay.com, since my dressing up is more about the outfit than it is about being a girl.

[ChrissyCrossedLegs]

One woman's tarty is another woman's "glam"
Can I be a Glam tart then please?
:)
SammyJo

[MichelleH]

I don't go for the "tarty" look, but I do need a fair amount of makeup to look even halfway feminine. I think though, that like a lot of us, I like to experiment with hair, makeup, and nails and sometimes that leads to a rather ****ty look.

MichelleH

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

What is tarty exactly? Like one step under whorish?

[Lauren_T]

What is tarty exactly? Like one step under whorish?Close. It's 'whorish' with an English accent... :p

[Samantha Jane]

Yes I love the tarty look :D , but then as I don't go out em femme, I've no worries about having to blend in with the general populace.
And our cat don't take much notice of how I dress, well at least I don't think so :)

[Stormgirl]

:rolleyes:

[Missy Anne]

Mostly I go for business classy, elegant or the girl next door, but will admit to once in a while sliding into a tarty look. (But high priced tarty!)

Missy Anne

[MaxineF]

I'm not sure if I like to dress "****ty' per se however I love "saucy wench"

Perhaps it's just me but all outfits I love just happen to be in the jessiebell section when it comes to shopping :)

Maxine

[gina13]

i prefer the term risque :) and yes classy sass is best but in private or with the right company downright wanton feels pretty nice.

silky and sheer, satin, laced, pretty things,
camisoles, and nighties, and sensual dreams.

feverish passion, in nylon and lace,
the lust and desire,
insatiates.

pinks, reds and blues,
in white i feel pure,
these feminine feelings,
soft, sexy allure.

[charliegg]

Well, all I can say is thanks to all those that answered my question on the tarty thing. You're right, looking through it seems that you want to dress so as not to be noticed which I can appreciate. Tarty for the bedroom and all that. I'm new to all this and am not sure of my way round the forum yet and don't even know if I should be answering you in the forum but correct me or put me in the right place if I am wrong. I'm still learning and really do appreciate you all answering my query. Just questions on my mind.

[Tamara Croft]

I haven't read all the replies... but I'll tell you why Tam dresses like a tart. In real years, she might be 31, but in Tam years, she's really only 21.... hence the desire to dress her age ;) like a tart!!!!! I'm sure as she gets older, she will adapt that nice blue rinse in no time at all :hiding:

[Lauren_T]

Well, all I can say is thanks to all those that answered my question on the tarty thing. You're right, looking through it seems that you want to dress so as not to be noticed which I can appreciate. Tarty for the bedroom and all that. I'm new to all this and am not sure of my way round the forum yet and don't even know if I should be answering you in the forum but correct me or put me in the right place if I am wrong. I'm still learning and really do appreciate you all answering my query. Just questions on my mind.Oh, Lord no, say what you like wherever you like! I mean! That's what the place is here for, innit? :)

[DanaJ]

Charlie, I asked a question way back on page one - can you tell us why YOU like to dress tarty? At least, that is the way your avatar looks to me. I am not saying it looks bad or is bad, but I would like to know why you do it....

[Anita]

thars nowt wrong wi blue rinse tamara lass if it was good enuff fer mi muvver it is gud enuff for miself
you will be old sumday lass and blue rince will not be a laffing matter as it is not to old gals like me
no offence or gate taken tho lasx as i knows thee meens well but youg head an all that
yours supping my phylosan the old Anita
:hiding:

[Tamara Croft]

Bloody northern commoners (anita) :tongueout

[Anita]

Posh spice bloody middle englanders!
so thars got mi pidgeon oled then lass and me wiv bird flu
wife says she will have mi put down but needs the eggs:fim:

[Tamara Croft]

You're just jealous :p and you're just a tart anita :p but I'll forgive you because you have flu... and oops... sorry Charlie.... stop hijacking threads dammit!!!!

Back on topic now.... just one point to make, most of the pictures I see posted here are of the 'tart' range... so nevermind you lot all denying it... I bet you all started off that way didn't you!!!

[Sissy Jay]

Nicely put Tamara! LOLOL " you cutie Tart you!

[Anita]

i luv being a tart cos it makes me feel good
there i have said it and Tamara is right \(for once)
I AM A TART X 100 can i go home now miss?

[Tamara Croft]

LOL Anita :spank:

[Anita]

T. A .R .T.
TOTALLY. ATTRACTIVE. ROLEACTING. T GIRL
YUP THATS DEFINITELY MOI
:cheer: :gorgeous: :lol: :ukflag: :tongueout

[Dragster]

I'm sure Charlie will answer Dana's question....eventually, but Tamara, you mentioned that Tam dresses tarty too. How does that make you feel? Turned on, turned off, no difference? And if Tam's anything like me, he'd love it when you're the tart, or you both are!

Tony

[jessi girl]

:) me personally, i like the tarty look. im into ( how to say it...),innocent+daring+teasin'-n- pleasin look. ok, so im a :worship: bad girl!? someone's gotta do it:eek:

[Tamara Croft]

I'm sure Charlie will answer Dana's question....eventually, but Tamara, you mentioned that Tam dresses tarty too. How does that make you feel? Turned on, turned off, no difference? And if Tam's anything like me, he'd love it when you're the tart, or you both are!

TonyOhh... I kinda like it I guess ;) When we both go out, we both dress up pretty tarty.... sure makes peoples heads turn :D

[size7satin]

Tart or not..... I'm all for flaunt it if you got it :D

We all have a picture in our mind of the girl we want to be and it's so much fun teasing the boy's with ****tly little outfits, nails & heels.

I have a guy I see from time to time & I am the tart that his woman will never be. He makes me feel more gurl then any gg has every made me feel.

There are times I dress just because I LOVE THAT DRESS or whatever I see that I'm not so tart and thats a whole nother feeling in itself.

Screw it I love TART!!!!!!

[Stephanie Brooks]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.
Hi CharlieGG!

Guess I've gotten into the borrrrrrrring stage. I never did the long nails, though I used to paint them. My hands are veritable paws, however, and painting the nails draws attention to them. This is not a good thing for me.

High heels. Ha ha ha ha!!!!! I'm good for a 1 1/2" heel. Above that and I risk breaking an ankle. Again, not a good thing for me.

Clothes. My last dress came up to my knees. Woot woot! I just bought a new jumper (dress) that will be mid-calf length.

Makeup. I want to look like most any female I might happen to encounter. Most of them aren't made up for the bedroom.

I try to be pretty, and appear as a woman my age. I try to have some style without looking out of place. I wear pretty things underneath, though they're for my eyes only. ^_^ <*sigh*>

I just want to be the girl next door.

[Zelgadis]

The style I like is anything but tarty. I look more depressed, dark, and jaded than tarty. But having a very dark and jaded personality, it suits me quite well.

[Marla GG]

Hmmmmm, well not that I have anything against the tarty crowd, but......

I am fortunate in that I had a choice. As most of you know, I was looking to date and marry a CD. But as you may not know, when I was screening potential partners, I sent the tarty ones packing!:p As in, take your fishnets and go fishing somewhere else!

I do love fantasy dressing, but I personally go for the sissy look. Lace and bows, petticoats, and (I am so sorry Tamara) big frilly panties!!!!! That just seems so sweet to me, as opposed to stilettos and pvc miniskirts. I have a thing for "good girls."

But I don't dress that way myself......I prefer "sexy, sophisticated and elegant" for my own clothes.

I guess this just proves that we all like different things.:D

[Zelgadis]

I do love fantasy dressing, but I personally go for the sissy look. Lace and bows, petticoats, and (I am so sorry Tamara) big frilly panties!!!!! That just seems so sweet to me, as opposed to stilettos and pvc miniskirts. I have a thing for "good girls."

Take that, and add a little modern gothic, a little Edwardian/Elizabethan/Victorian era style, and a little Japanese touch, and that is what I like to wear. It is a semi-popular style in Japan, but there are those like me all over the globe that also like the style.

[lee james]

I love tarty!
short mini skirts,hose and 4 inch heels,satin,silk pvc,rubber,french maids.
BUT I havent worn any of my tarty wardrobe for months,Its just as easy to slip on a nice pair of ladies jeans and a dressy top.-still wear my 4 inch black patent stillettos though-there are certain things a girl just cant do without!

[stefanie]

I think like many gg, we may be simply going through a late learning. I used to like the more tarty'ish look...found it ultra femme in my eyes. As I have become more mature, I have moved to a more sophisticated sexy look. All my clothes are now from the larger retailers and i simply prefer to dress my age.

[Mitzi]

My two cents on this subject…

For many of us, dressing is an extremely sensual thing. I’ve been dressing for a very long time, yet it still is. We as males look for eroticism in tarty females, the tartier, the more delicious. So making ourselves into those girls is, oh so erotic.

On the other hand, as we start venturing out into the public domain, we recognize the need to dress more appropriately. And being able to transform ourselves into real life women becomes very sensual and satisfying.

Many of us, myself included, find wearing wedding gowns very sensuous. There are others who find dressing as little girls sensuous. So whatever turns us on in women is often what we want to be.

Mitzi

[Dragster]

Thanks for your reply Tamara. I did think, part way through yesterday, that it was pretty impertinent of me to have asked the question, and I was going to post an apology tonight, but I see you answered it anyway, so you couldn't have been offended.
I asked, because I thought that most GGs would not be happy with a tarty husband (my wife is not yet happy with a husband who even thinks about CDing, but that's another story), and I would have to be very careful what I revealed to my wife (if and when I make some progress with her) about my love of the tarty look, for her as well as me, but only in our bedroom. Then you blew me away by saying you BOTH go OUT tarty! I'd love to be there when you do, but I wonder if I'd ever have the nerve to join you on a night out "in the middle of England"!

Tony

[ronna]

Who's a tart? Not me!
I don't follow fashion trends, I set them!
Just you wait, pretty soon, everyone will be wearing their underwear on the outside, just like me.

[Tamara Croft]

Ronna, wearing underwear on the outside was soooo last year ;) pink, red and black? that so does NOT go together :rolleyes:

[DanaJ]

... but the toilet adds a nice touch :thumbsup:

[ronna]

I'm sorry, I won't do it again, I promise!
This year I hope to be a fairy.
Would that be okay?

[Kim E]

Well put Mitzi ! Took the words out of my mouth. As an older gal I personally prefer to dress conservatively and blend in. When I go out its business casual or a nice dress and heels for dinner. Around the house or around town its jeans and a top with sneakers. Kinda soccer mom or girl next door style.
I believe we all have our own unique styles that are as varied as we are. I don't believe any one form of female expression is any better than another. After all, we all are sisters, we all share wearing clothing of the opposite sex, however varied.

Hugs ~ Kim

[darynn_NWPA]

I dress mostly in jeans and T's for myself. My boobs are small but I usually go bra-less in public. I dress "tarty" only when there is a reason for it. Maybe I'm strange but I like being feminine too much to make fun of it by dressing to extremes. When I feel like being a "tart", I am either alone or trying to please somebody who likes that kind of thing. GG's who dress "tarty" all the time usually are in a profession that I wouldn't want to have. BUT, it sure is fun to do it once in a while !

[michellejean]

it all depends on my mood. Yes i like the tarty thing but then again it is fun to look sophisticated and blend in
But whatever lifts your skirt . Just enjoy . Nobody gets hurt and life is too regimented by people like Tony Blair and all thatpoluitically correct claptrap

Well thats my two bobs worth. Some will like it Some won,t but that's life
LOL
xx Dianne (anita):D thank you DIANNE i feel the same way as you.if i like it i do it(wear it) and if they don,t oh well.:thumbsup:

[Vivian Best]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.

I not into the "tarty" clothes and make up you mentioned. I guess my age and my old fashioness makes me want to dress like the GGs my age. Personally, as I make this comment it is not intended to offend anyone, I think we would be more accepted in society if we were more consertive in our dressing.

Vivian:rose2:

[JoannaDees]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.

Dammit! Tart has had such a bad rap! Tart is good.

[JoannaDees]

Who's a tart? Not me!
I don't follow fashion trends, I set them!
Just you wait, pretty soon, everyone will be wearing their underwear on the outside, just like me.

Ronna! THat is fantastic. Pink and Black ... way to go baby!

[Toyah]

I think it depends what you want to do, if you go wandering around your shopping centre dressed vampishly then OK but OMG you are going to be so outed. For me dressing like my mum has no interest so trips to the mall are out I want to go to the vamp side coz that's where all the nice clothes are at, not for me flannelette knickers tweed and paisley skirt but if thats your thing its OK. So give me the tricky stuff satin leather and yes even rubber and PVC bring it on and I will love it

[charliegg]

Charlie, I asked a question way back on page one - can you tell us why YOU like to dress tarty? At least, that is the way your avatar looks to me. I am not saying it looks bad or is bad, but I would like to know why you do it....

DanaJ, sorry I've been a long time replying, we've been away for a while. Anyway, to answer your question about why I dress tarty, it brings out another side of me which is quite unlike the real me. If I dress tarty it makes me feel very sexy and confident and my SO loves it! It's something I've only done since I've been with Katie as my confidence has grown in this relationship, largely due to the fact that Katie has been so honest with me right from the start.

[DanaJ]

Not a prob charlie - and thanks for that answer :) May I say - "ditto" :D

[sadiechan]

Today I did a lot of reading about gender identity at the library from some old and some new psychiatry books but I think I found what could be considered an answer for the original question of "why do us girls dress tarty"

A certain select group of us most often dress sexily in revealing clothes which one might call ****ty or tarty - clothes one would normally associate with the wearer looking for sexual activity. This is because some of us crossdressers come under fetishists - we crossdress only for sexual reward - however it is given is unimportant but dressing sexily in female clothes is a turn-on for us. Why? A million-dollar question but unless the girls here want it I won't bore you with what I read today.

There are other groups of us girls who dress according to most of the books - there are those of us with gender dysphoria who might be considered "intersexed" or "transgendered" - these groups are less likely to dress ****tily because they are more interested in passing and feeling as a woman generally than the fetishist group. Transgendered girls actually want to become women and many will go for a sex change.

This may or may not be something u girls already know or care about but I thought it was interesting. The groups are of course not clear cut and there is much blurring and transgression and indeed there may be more groups. If anyone wants to know more from a medical side I'm happy to say more :)

Sadie (intersexed by the way)

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

For what it's worth Sadie, while the textbooks draw a bright line between "fetishitic TVs" and those who crossdress because they believe they've got feminine side, the reality is a blurrier. A lot that clearly defined distinction is the result of TG politics, primarily Virginia Prince's bid to make CDing acceptable (the irony being that she wrote a considerable amount of forced femme fiction).

To be honest, crossdressing is rather poorly studied. Those involved in studing TG issues, for the most part have focused on TSs because of the need to vet candidates for SRS. And a compounding factor is that gender roles have changed radically during the last 40 years, which undoubted has changed the motivations for and character of CDing. So actually, I'd give more credence to sources like Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty," which is generally excellent, although there's a few things where I think Helen isn't quite on the mark. (To be fair, as a non-CD she faced a tough time getting inside our heads, and she also makes clear the book reflects her personal perspective and experiences.)

[sadiechan]

I agree on many levels Darla (if you check back on my post at the end I mentioned blurring in reality for the record - sorry we students are a bit up ourselves about being wrong!) - Transgender is definitely poorly studied but there has some been some good work in the medical field if you and look for it and it is not quite as easy from a medical perspective to take case studies and look at it in so much depth as maybe an independent book can.

I think the only sad thing is that A LOT of people involved in the medical field don't know anything about transgendered issues. Such as my psychiatrist who had the nerve to tell me that I didn't want a sex change because I didn't like men. That's so backwards and wrong in thinking that I went and checked back through the older books on when that might have been accurate as a viewpoint for the knowledge at the time and let me tell you it was at least before 1970.

Speaking for those people I know I am qualifying with there is of course a much better understanding but with it a lack of it as we have not studied gender dysphoria nearly enough. Indeed it took about half if not a third of a lecture of our time - but hopefully more of us learnt about it and came across it in clinics and such. I know that when I qualify I will do my best to impart any knowledge I've come across to students if possible.

[Emma Brownings]

Why is it that most crossdressers go for the absolute tart look. I'm talking long red nails, high heels, tarty clothes and make up. Do you class that as the ultimate in femininity? I'm intrigued because Katie loves all that.

Hi Charlie,
Bit late to this one but as I found it a thought provoking question, I will throw my thoughts and feelings.



Over the years, the dressing for arousal has given way to dressing for a feminine experience. I'm so happy that things have shifted. I think that is why I experience a lot less guilt and shame about by CrossDressing now -- its not about arousal but about femininity.

I can't help having very similar feelings Shannon although I do have to confess to the occassional 'tarty' lapse when Emma is feeling a little more like an exhibitionist. Even then the tarty moments rarely cause arousal. How does that leave me in the categories that others seem to insist should be applied......Who the hell knows.......who the hell cares.

Yes, I mostly dress to be as feminine and convincing as possible. Mosly that means smart and appropriate for my age. Sometimes I want to be a little more outrageous and yes that probably means tarty.

Is that the male me with a stereo typical view of some GGs or is it my femme side just wanting to be different and not act my age?????

Whatever, I am glad to say that these days I go with the flow and enjoy!!!!

Don't know if this has made any sense but it has helped me to examine my own feelings.

[melissacd]

For what it's worth Sadie, while the textbooks draw a bright line between "fetishitic TVs" and those who crossdress because they believe they've got feminine side, the reality is a blurrier. A lot that clearly defined distinction is the result of TG politics, primarily Virginia Prince's bid to make CDing acceptable (the irony being that she wrote a considerable amount of forced femme fiction).

To be honest, crossdressing is rather poorly studied. Those involved in studing TG issues, for the most part have focused on TSs because of the need to vet candidates for SRS. And a compounding factor is that gender roles have changed radically during the last 40 years, which undoubted has changed the motivations for and character of CDing. So actually, I'd give more credence to sources like Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty," which is generally excellent, although there's a few things where I think Helen isn't quite on the mark. (To be fair, as a non-CD she faced a tough time getting inside our heads, and she also makes clear the book reflects her personal perspective and experiences.)


Darla,

Your post is very wise and makes me wonder if it is time to write a new book on cross dressing that is written by a CD (or group of CDs) from a CDs perspective and in the context of changing gender role definitions (and the changing acceptable range of clothing for women). Perhaps it is possible to communicate the message to the public that CDs are normal, there are lots of them and they want to be able to be who they really are, just like any other person in society.

Melissa

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

My apologies Sadie, I was in a hurry and didn't mean it to sound snippy. As you said, you did point out the line is blurrier. Likewise, there is some good research out there, although a lot of is a bit old. Transman Aaron Devor (http://web.uvic.ca/~ahdevor/) has done some really good work, albeit on FTMs, but a lot of his work is transferable. One thing that I think helps is that he's a sociology professor rather than a therapist or sexologist, so he brings a broader perspective. As I said, the therapists tend to be wrapped up in how things might affect treatment, and too for the sexologist -- like the infamous J. Michael Bailey -- it all comes back to sex, sex, sex. (i.e. when all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)

There's also some interesting research being done by our fellow crossdressers. Yvonne's Place did a very detailed survey (http://www.yvonnesplace.net/survey/survey99/survey99_results.htm) back in 1999 of more 1,000 CDs. She was collecting data earlier this year for an updated version, but I don't see it on her site, so I'm guessing she's closed out the 2005 survey. Another CD did an interesting serving asking CDs for their Myers-Briggs types. Obviously both these efforts have all sort of issues around self-selecting samples and appropriate rigor, but if the professionals won't do research, it's better than nothing. And I think there's enough of us that in reviewing these effort we could safely say whether the results seem to ring true or not -- we just need to be extremely careful in the amount of precision we attribute to them. (I.e. Yvonne's survey asked about sexuality (http://www.yvonnesplace.net/survey/survey99/sexuality.htm), which generated some results that I think are more reflective of reality than the simple "CDs are hetro" position, but I'd hestitate to say that it demonstrates definatively that X percentage have Y sexual orientation.

OTOH, with a closeted population like ourselves, any research is likely to have serious methodological problems around sampling issues. The best we can do is try to triangulate among them. For example, I'd love to see a good study on the percentage of accident victims who are dressed. Inherently, it avoids the self-reporting issues. But since not everyone underdresses, it's going to underreport the CD population. But with a survey in places like here about underdressing (how many people do, how frequently), one could probably make a reasonable extrapolation from both sets of data to calculate the numbers of CDs.

Emma, personally I think exhibitionism is a one motivator for CDing. Not necessarily in a ****ty, negative way, but the fact is that women are allowed to be more exhibitionistic in everyday life than men are.

(Not that there aren't consequences for GGs who show a bit too much skin, but they generally don't elict the eeeewww reaction that a guy with a few too many shirt buttons undone does. And of course it's one thing to be able to put yourself on display and not to feel you're expected to do so.)

It's funny, I've sort of circled around the exhibitionistic aspect myself. Early on my dressing was definitely "fantasy dressing," which clearly was expressing some of the exhibitionism I couldn't do en homme. Then when I decided I wanted to go outside, I reacted against it and went very "realistic." Now that I'm feeling confident that I can not only be "passable" (really "blendable") but actually pretty, I've gotten reinterested in doing some fantasy dressing -- in the privacy of my own home, although I might do some public showing off at an appropriate venue like the Folsom Street Fair (SF's annual street fair for "alternative" lifestyles).

Melissa, thanks. I definitely think a book "from the inside" would be useful -- and in fact I've toyed with the idea of writing one myself. Back in college I did a lot reading up on the "men's lib" literature at the time (although I became disillusioned with most of it), so I think I'd bring an interesting counterpoint to Helen's book.

But to be honest, I'm ambivalent about doing so. Writing a book is a huge amount of work, but more it's that promoting it would probably require coming out, which I'm not sure I'm ready for. (Helen and Betty are pseudonyms, but they did come out to friends and family -- especially since their photos are in the book.) OTOH, places like Amazon are making it much easier to self-publish, so maybe that's a route, although that probably wouldn't gain the mainstream attention you're thinking about. In the mean time, if I can ever get off my butt and put up my own site, I'll probably start by writing essays for that.

However, you're main point is well taken. If we want to gain acceptance it means stepping out of the CD ghetto and interacting in public venues (be it physical or online).

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Sadie, I thought you might be interested in this blog post (http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/?p=452) by Helen Boyd (author of "My Husband Betty") about a lecture she recently attended on the sexuality of TG folk -- or rather all the things researchers feel they don't know.


What I ended up with was this sense - as an unlettered writer who is sans ‘official’ psyche/sociology/social work background - that basically what we’re going on right now is 1) guesswork, and 2) qualitative research.

The Transgender Project (http://www.ndri.org/transgender/) is doing a broad-based, three-year study of people on the TG spectrum -- unfortunately it's limited to people in the greater NYC area. But they're actively looking for participants, so you NY girls should give them a call.