What is the quality you most admire in a woman?

[Frédérique]

The following is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but only slightly... :)

I saw the title question in a book, sort of a questionnaire thing, right after “What is the quality you most admire in a man?” Being a MtF crossdresser with some mileage, I immediately ignored the “man” inquiry and focused on the “woman” question...

Needless to say, there are many qualities I admire in a woman, too many to list here. Rather than write about the obvious, I’d like to discuss something based on years and years of painstaking observation – I really admire the quality that women have to be COMPLETELY unaware of their surroundings, which includes, most importantly, other people around them...

Not all women are gifted with this amazing ability, but I can safely say that at least 50% possess this uncanny knack to tune things out and focus on their own relationship to reality. I’ve been thinking about this for some time, and I’ve been observing women ever since I wanted to BE one of them in some second-hand way. The clothes I have adopted certainly help, but I also want to master their mannerisms and characteristics – if I wish to pass, and I DO, I need to act like them as well. Let us remember that ignorance is bliss...

I went to Wal-Mart the other night - not dressed, and not to see the women’s clothing (that’s another thread), but I was just doing some food shopping. As usual, it didn’t take long to bump into a woman or two, or three. Actually, they bump into me, because they have no idea that I’m standing there. I can be looking at a display of sweet relish, and a woman will insert herself in between me and the pickles, oblivious to the idea that there are other human beings nearby...

Another woman will park her cart/buggy in the middle of an aisle, and then spend 10-15 minutes choosing a non-dairy creamer. Meanwhile, I can’t reach the cans of coffee, so, being a gentleman, I take another “orbit” of the store, giving the woman time and space. When I return, she is most likely to be found blocking another item I urgently need. Apparently I’m invisible, but I keep looking at my corporeal presence to reassure myself that I AM real in some basic way. This is not chivalry; in fact I don’t have a horse, “high” or otherwise...

This amazes me – women invariably don’t notice other people around them, unless they are being paid to do so. I mean, I don’t really wish to be noticed, but this can get ridiculous at times. I’m beginning to see a fundamental difference between males and females, evolutionary in nature and profoundly disparate. If I say to a woman “Excuse me...” she will be extremely surprised that I’m there at all, and she will always say “Oh, I’m sorry – I didn’t see you.” Of course you didn’t, but how could you miss me? I’m not made of reflective material, nor am I camouflaged to match the cereal boxes – I represent a dark presence in a well-lit atmosphere, i.e. I should stand out...

Of course, MEN notice me! Men, by way of the aforementioned evolution, need to be aware of everything around them. Back at Wal-Mart, a woman will often be accompanied by a man, and, since he is uninterested in shopping, he is doing the lookout duty for her. The other night I was looking at the boxes of pasta (or I was trying to), and the woman, as usual, didn’t see me – she occupied the space between the shelves and yours truly, but, fortunately, the man noticed me. “Dear...” he says, “Move back a little so this gentleman can reach the shelves.” She complies, apologizing profusely for not noticing me – do you see a trend developing here? This M-F teamwork has been observed on many occasions; come to think of it I’ve done it for my sister when she shops! I unconsciously act as a male now and then, I’m sorry to say...

Believe me, I admire this ability to not notice who is in one’s immediate vicinity, because, if I possessed it, I could go out dressed and not be bothered with CD anxiety. As a male, I assume everyone is aware of me, a man in a dress, and I’m not passing as well as I would like. Would women notice me if I was dressed as a woman - would they be aware of me THEN? I know that males would notice me, but they are genetically attuned to be aware of all things under all circumstances. There are exceptions, to be sure, but this male “awareness” is what causes most of the anxiety I feel while I’m dressed, from within and without – if I possessed a woman’s basic quality of non-awareness, things would be a lot easier, I feel...

I could “tune-out” the world and concentrate on that which matters most, namely my need to be less male. This is a formidable obstacle to overcome – I basically have to chuck my male-ness into the nearest receptacle (or the next aisle in a store), and somehow pretend to be unaware of those who may do me harm. Not an easy undertaking, but maybe my female clothing will act as a kind of containment vessel, or space suit, so I may navigate the inhospitable and gender-oppressive atmosphere of 21st century America. Is there a knob (or antenna) to retract, so I can tune-out all wavelengths I was previously aware of? Come to think of it, there IS such a knob – too bad I’m so fond of the dumb thing! Anyway, I’m serious – If I could ignore everyone around me, I would be able to crossdress with relative ease...

I used to live on a farm with several ponds, and nearly every spring a pair of Canada geese would fly in and set about starting a family. The female would make a nest and lay her eggs in a secluded location, while the male would keep an eye on everything. During the four week nesting period, if the female took a break to eat and drink, the male would be right beside her, standing guard. I kept my distance, but HE was watching me all the time. The female rarely looked up from her duties, in fact she was completely oblivious to my presence (unless the male goose alerted her). I see a parallel with the humans who frequent Wal-Mart - the female is getting what she needs, in a way that is most efficient, and this involves getting “into” a mundane task HER way. The male, meanwhile, is protective of the female, thinking of her safety at all times...

Generalizing? Sure. Over thinking? You bet, but take a look for yourself the next time you are in a position to NOT be noticed by someone who should be aware of you. I simply call it female obliviousness, and I wish I knew how to tap into this simple technique – it would help me to be a better (and less closeted) crossdresser, that’s for sure. BTW, I was at Wal-Mart again tonight, and I was walking through the frozen foods section. Ahead of me were three women and a man, gathered around a cart, having a conversation. The three women were facing me, but they didn’t notice me at all. The man, who had his back turned to me, reached over, and, without looking, pulled the shopping cart out of my way so I could get by. How did HE know I was there? UNBELIEVEABLE!!!

So, what is the quality YOU most admire in a woman? :heehee:

[Cherry Lynn]

I can relate to your shopping experience at Wal-Mart as the same thing has happened to me in Wal-Mart. Drives me up the wall when a woman blocks the aisle and yes, I have seen men move a buggy or tell the woman to move. I consider myself a people watcher but maybe it is just the male in me. My ex-wife did not notice others like I do so maybe you are on to something. I always enjoy reading your posts.

[Marleena]

Great story Frederique! It's hard to just select one trait, but I'll chose compassion.

[Lisia]

I think you are definitely on to something. Very well thought-out post.

[suit]

her ability , want even to have anything to do with a knuckle draging XY stinky borish knuckle head of a man .
It boggles a logical mind

[eluuzion]

The thing I admire most about women is their uncanny ability to master the art of speaking with a feminine voice. We can work for months at it and not make much progress. Yet, most of them seem to possess some natural ability to do with little effort and in a very convincing manner. But none of them seem too eager to share their secret. :doh:

If you think shopping in Kansas is challenging…try shopping in Florida, or another popular retirement Mecca. The retirees from NY & NJ down in Fort Lauderdale eat guys like us for breakfast! It is like shopping in a bumper car amusement ride. Don’t even think about going near a sale item. You could lose a finger or a hand if you reach at the wrong time.

Of course, everybody knows you never look directly at the check-out lane that you intend to enter. Always use your peripheral vision, to avoid a tipping them off…and a” race” for the lane. They are always looking at your eyes when making their approach. As soon as they spot your “tell”, they will cut you off in a heartbeat. It’s an Art. Best technique that I have found is to go past the check-out lane you have selected…then quickly do a u-turn and dart into the lane you want.

Never pick up any item and place it into your cart…then continue to inspect more of the same items. It will trip their “secret sale item” instinct and they will rush you like sharks to a blood pool. When the thrashing subsides, even other items in your cart will be gone, as well as anything that was in your cart that had a “sale” sticker on it. (Although it is a good diversionary strategy)

If you happen to go into the “Fast Lane” (10 items or less) with more than the "allowed" number of items…and there happens to be a woman (women) in line behind you…I can only wish you “good luck” in surviving that one. At a minimum, you have essentially committed “Social Suicide”, and your executioners are right in line behind you, to ensure that you do not escape unpunished.

If you want to be noticed by women while you are shopping, you need to place a “½ Price Sale” sticker on the back of your shirt.

I never enter an aisle with a shopping cart. I park it out of the way at the entrance of each aisle, and then walk down the aisle from the opposite end. When I reach my cart, I unload the armful of items I have picked off the shelves.

I don’t worry about anybody taking my cart. The first thing I put into it is a ridiculously overpriced item…right in the fold out baby seat. (Which I put back on the shelf prior to checking out). Women will never touch a cart with that type of item in it, lol.

Whatever you do…never leave a stack of store coupons in your cart in plain view! They are better at spotting those things...than a cop standing outside you car window is at noticing illegal drug paraphernalia sitting on the console.

Women in a grocery store are like men in a hardware store. It is a right of passage issue. We are all expected to assume the proper role when shopping, to maintain structure and order in our society and avoid chaos. The biological sex of the “alpha” role is determined by the domain one enters. (Hardware stores = male, Grocery/Department Stores = female…etc.) If you are not the Alpha, then you expected to assume an assisting, subservient role that supports the Alpha leader.

So you see, it is not a question of you being “invisible”…it is simply a matter of the women relating to you in the position that you occupy within that particular domain.

Sumthin’ like dat’…but you might want to check your operator’s manual just to be sure…:heehee::D:heehee:

Good luck...it is a jungle out there.:hugs:

:love:

[SarahLynn]

"What is the quality you most admire in a woman?"

Their....aah....ummmm....it's their.....ahhhhhh, ooh shucks i can't say that. If you ask them they will tell you their mind was on something else other than "you". And if you ask them what that other thing is you will get 15 to 25 answers from the same woman at that time. We all know they think but what they are thinking is a mystery even the most accomplished shrink will be unable to tell you. My belief is, this is why they seem to miss even the simplest of processes when it comes to fixing something.
Too many thoughts running about in their heads. These thoughts never have any logic to them but by gumm they are hav'n them.

SarahLynn

[noeleena]

Hi,

Geepers i'd better not say im a woman then had i .....

& so then .....dont men get focused then as well... not while they are shoping its in -out of the shop. unless they as said are guard duty for thier mates, .

so all i'll say is i do both,

When haveing a indepth talk yes i do tune out pretty much all that may or is going on around myself. & yes closed off any one who may be around me,

& yes we are all able to do that, at times,
Sarah this may be the case for many, tho not all the time for our daughter she can & does do things a very practcal woman & no does not miss a trick.

well i should know after 33 years & has worked for me .

Hey Eluuzion , it dont work like that over here in the bush......ooops jungle , not like your's ....he he .......

...noeleena...

[Shari]

Freddy, we may have to start referring to you as the "George Carlin" of this site. You help us all to be conscious of so many things that we rarely think about.
Thanks for the chuckles this morning.

[LeaP]

Freddy, I think you're correct in what you've pointed out. What I admire, though, is the ability so many women have of fearlessly perservering in pursuit of doing the right thing (particularly when it comes to children). They will stand up to anything - or anyone - and never stop.

Lea

[lady di]

when i am dressed and fell like a woman i get a feelig of release and well being that men don,t seem to get and women do................................................ ..di

[Jonianne]

You have a great way of putting into words the observations you make. I have noticed that too. I am so aware of my surroundings that when a woman (or sometimes a man) is just standing there in the way, I start to wonder if they were just being rude, but like you said, when they do notice, they profusely apologize.

Also like you said, not all women are like that. I remember my mother, who I take after, being keenly aware of others around her and making sure she or us kids were not blocking the way.

The quality I admire most in women is their ability to make heart connections to others emotionally and their ability to be so accepting. Relationship, relationship, relationship.

[jillleanne]

I admire their ability to change their minds fifty times in a moments notice. And it's rubbing off on me too. I have, in the past couple of years been putting things I want in my shopping cart and before you know it, I'm putting them back on the rack. Have no idea why but after some time passes, I sort of regret not getting it to a small degree and before long, all is forgotten. I also admire very much their ability to be less critical of people in general. Oh sure, they will be the first to say something negative about how another woman looks( maybe not out loud), but that's just the genetic competitivness in them, but overall, tey accept more easily and are less prejudice.

[Alyla]

They're subtle courage and strength. ( yuppers, that's two but they are interlaced)

peace to you my friends
in this season
be thankful
share, and give

Alyla

[Kathi Lake]

Freddy, I'm not sure how much of it is due to obliviousness rather than the attempt to block people out. Think about it; how many of us see a woman and just stare at her? How often do guys look at, glance, and just plain ogle women on a daily basis? I think it would be very tiring, and I would kind of retreat a bit myself. Just a thought.

As for women's best qualities? They're women! Enough said.

:)

Kathi

[kimdl93]

This isn't really part of my experience. Maybe its because I seldom shop at Wallmart. In our household, my wife is the people watcher. I grew up with the idea that its impolite to intrude on other people - even unobtrusively by watching or evesdropping. My wife, however, can't resist observing and listening in. Perhaps people interest her more than they interest me.

As for the qualities I most admire - honestly, the women I have known have all been far better workers...more focused, more determined, and more reliable than their male counterparts. Beyond that, I find that women are generally far more emotionally intelligent - more empathetic and capable of anticipating how ones' feelings will be impacted by their words or actions.

[*Vanessa*]

Well, for the quality I admire - The ability to change a baby diaper without throwing up. One right?... Ya that's it!

[LilSissyStevie]

I don't know. I've always thought that the propensity to block the aisle in the store was a function of IQ. The dumber you are the more likely you are to be oblivious to your surroundings. Some people just can't think of two things, like "get Coco Puffs" and "get fat ass out of the way," at once. It's just too confusing to think all of that stuff at the same time. The reason 50% of women have this "quality" is because that is roughly the percentage that are below average in intelligence. The reason it seems to be mostly women is because they are still the ones that do most of the shopping. If you go to the hardware store or an auto parts store you find that half the men also have this wonderful "quality."

[Dana7]

The thing I admire most in a woman is their nurturing nature. I now try to cultivate that in myself; to be more considerate of other's feelings, to be patient with other's faults, and to show a loving and kind demeanor to those who are having a bad day.

That I think is what I admire most in a woman.

[Momarie]

Thank you Dana7, Alyla, Jonianne, Kimdl93 for noticing women beyond a superficial and demeaning manner.

For crediting us with more than just being cotton headed simpletons who are oblivious to our surroundings and "executioners" in the ten item or less line.

Honestly, could these "observations and opinions" be any more insulting in such a passive/aggressive way?

[Miss Maxine]

I admire their ability to share the world with men. That is most impressive.

[drushin703]

f.
the belt in my fourteen year old Oreck upright broke trying to suck up pecan shells from the long nap in my rug and after visiting Target, Kmart,
the local appliance shop, Home Depot, Lowes and Family Dollar I found myself in Walmart.And there it was, the belt for a fourteen year old Oreck.
But sorry Frederuque, no other lesson was learned.

I most admire instinct in all women, the complex tendency to act in ways essential to their existence (so much unlike myself)). Having the capacity
to know a good tasting insect from a bad one.....like a two million year old bird..dana

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

That's it, I understand now. A woman when set a task will pursue it to the end oblivious to anything that may infringe on the quest. The male certainly looks around because he is on safety watch. He cannot let his female become the property of a competitive male so he maintains a watch and with a stare to scare any approaching male.
That is why when a male looks into the fridge or cupboard to find something he never sees past the first two items on the shelf because he is looking around for competitors. The female sees what she wants, usually in the back corner of the cupboard or fridge and finds the item so fast. She is fixated on the task at hand.
Aha that is why she always puts the lid of the toilet down, the man in his haste to check outside the toilet door to ensure no competing males will take advantage of the other male in the toilet leaves the toilet seat up.
Wow Frederique, I am starting to understand.

[ReineD]

I also become impatient with people who are not considerate of others, whether it is in the grocery aisle or on the road. Rude is rude. I've not noticed that women are particularly rude, likely because I don't let it get to me. If I am obstructed by a cart in the middle of an aisle with its owner several feet away, I will simply move the cart. Or if someone is blocking the entrance to the aisle, chatting with someone else, I will simply say "Excuse me", and they will move. I agree there are more women who do this than men, but then the bulk of people in the grocery store are women.

I disagree with your assessment that we are unaware of our surroundings. Women need to be alert to potential threats to themselves and their young. I became hyper vigilant when my first child was born, and remain so even today. A cry of "Mom" from two aisles away will still increase my heartbeat. If I see something broken on the aisle floor, I will move it aside with my foot and tell someone about it. I feel as if I hear, see, and feel everything that is going on around me, compared to male companions I've been with, who seem to be better than I at compartmentalizing and super-focusing. :D

[eluuzion]

Thank you Dana7, Alyla, Jonianne, Kimdl93 for noticing women beyond a superficial and demeaning manner.

For crediting us with more than just being cotton headed simpletons who are oblivious to our surroundings and "executioners" in the ten item or less line.

Honestly, could these "observations and opinions" be any more insulting in such a passive/aggressive way?

hiya Momarie,

Unless I missed something, there was a reference in the OP implying humorous replies were acceptable. I replied accordingly...with humor and sarcasm, as I usually do. I realize that humor is always at risk of being taken seriously by those who with a different approach to life...but I offer no apologies for my outlook...

Since you made an indirect “reference” to me via the following statement you posted, I feel compelled to respond.

“For crediting us with more than just being cotton headed simpletons who are oblivious to our surroundings and "executioners" in the ten item or less line.”

You have extracted and edited an excerpt from a sentence in my post (“executioners…”), then attached it to a different member’s comment in a different post (“…cotton headed simpletons“), combining them in a single statement and context which implies both excerpts represent an accurate interpretation of MY statement, context, meaning and attitude toward women. That is not a statement that I posted.

You follow your distorted, edited and “combined misquoting” technique of restating other posters’ comments with this sentence, as a follow-up comment to that creative “misquote” you posted.

“Honestly, could these "observations and opinions" be any more insulting in such a passive/aggressive way?”

In my mind, that sentence is simply displaying your selective (mis)interpretation and opinions, (cognitive distortions) by presenting a logical fallacy consisting solely of your subjective personal perceptions and biased perspectives, in the form of a “question”. It is actually just a masked solicitation for consensus “alignment” with your personal perceptions and bias. Hence, your pre-qualifying use of the word “Honestly” as a manipulative “plea” word, to imply that being “honest” with our “genuine” thoughts equates to agreement with YOUR unique perceptions and judgments in YOUR world. I understand your intent, but respectfully disagree with your format, logic, interpretation …and personal “psychological diagnosis” which by context and reference you imply also applies to me.

I am not responding to defend distorted false statements and meanings that I did not make. That is an exercise in nonsense.:heehee:

I respect your right to voice your own opinions, whether they happen to align with mine or not. But I will not cater to anyone editing or distorting the context and/or meaning of anything I post, implying that it an accurate quote attributable to me.

I enjoy reading about any opinion or strategy anybody chooses to apply to their life, regardless of how logically it may seem to me. But if you choose to make a reference to something I post, or imply how I think, perceive or approach the world, I am requesting that you clarify the accuracy with me, or address me directly, rather than posting inaccurate quotes, edited excerpts and/or statements of mine to support or promote your personal agenda.

It is not necessary, I am still happy & friends & hope you are:hugs:... but if you feel compelled to respond, please do so in a PM to me, to avoid sidetracking this thread...:thumbsup:

I apologize for having to post this little digression from your thread Frederique, but I felt I had no choice:hugs:


Thanks, :hugs:

:love:

[12Andy777]

Their courage to be different and not conform to society's demands is by far the quality I admire the most. Men our far more worried about living up to society's definition of what a man should be, and they end up on average more depressed and angry because of this. Whereas most women seem to rebel against society's definition of what a woman should be (eg. by wearing men's clothing, getting a career, being totally independent). This is why women are happier than men; they have more freedom to be who they want.

[Alyla]

"They, being women, have created more freedom to be who they want."

simply put

Through history in the male ruled world, through economics. political clout, and religous doctrine, the first deadly sin of misogyny, has been absorbed into our world mindset. It is evident in the nightly news, and all manner and aspects of society;if and when this sin is dissolved from the collective conscience of society, then and only then will males not be fearful of those whose gender expression is different then their own. The "projection" of how one sees the world, onto others as an explanation, or denial of their own world view point, lays at the heart of the issue.

("What's the name of this thread." Sometimes I forget, and start to emote or project the sense that I am feeling from a string of postings, and it causes me to respond.)

Sometimes my brethren on the male side of the (GM's) gender divide, have their machismo threatened I feel, and in their fight or flight operation, they expose their self fears or loathing of others, that are stretching the parameters of the box they wish to fit in. In other words those of us that are able to swim from one shore to the other comfortably threaten the parameters, or their self constructed homes that protect them from internally derived emotions that reside out on their front lawns.

I am hoping this makes no more sense to the readers than it does to the writer. Not written very eloquently, but written none the less.

Others thoughts are welcome for conversation.

Wishing for peace,
and love,
at the very
least
Alyla

[KellyJameson]

The Art of War (For the male this must be learned for the female it is innate until it is socialized out of her)

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.

She who knows when she can fight and when she cannot will be victorious

All warfare is based on deception

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.

If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him.

When the enemy is at ease, be able to weary him; when well fed, to starve him; when at rest, to make him move. Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you

Subtle and insubstantial, the expert leaves no trace; divinely mysterious, she is inaudible. Thus she is master of her enemy's fate.

The ultimate in disposing one's troops is to be without ascertainable shape. Then the most penetrating spies cannot pry in nor can the wise lay plans against you.

[Dana7]

I disagree with your assessment that we are unaware of our surroundings. Women need to be alert to potential threats to themselves and their young. I became hyper vigilant when my first child was born, and remain so even today. A cry of "Mom" from two aisles away will still increase my heartbeat. If I see something broken on the aisle floor, I will move it aside with my foot and tell someone about it. I feel as if I hear, see, and feel everything that is going on around me, compared to male companions I've been with, who seem to be better than I at compartmentalizing and super-focusing. :D

I tend to agree with Reine, in my experience it is women who are better at multi-tasking and men who are better at compartmentalizing. I think that there are a few studies on this phenomena.

Here is a link to British research on the subject of the comparison of male and female multitasking that found women perform better at multiple tasks:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7896385/Scientists-prove-that-women-are-better-at-multitasking-than-men.html

And here is another article that affirms the above study:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/career/are-women-better-at-multitasking-than-men/3096

[jillleanne]

I admire their ability to put up with men.
I admire their ability to pack suitcases. I buy as I go.
I admire their ability to maintain a household. I just go with the flow.
I admire their ability to maintain the 'silent treatment' longer than we can stand it. Ladies, as you know, it really pisses us off!
I admire their ability to never discuss the size of their ass when all I want is an ass as big as hers.
I admire their ability to recollect a story to suit them because as we all know, they always win anyway. I do however, always get the last words in,
" Yes dear! ".
Finally, I admire the ability of women to understand men are the weaker sex but pretend women are.

[TGMarla]

Hey now, these few of you who are taking this thread way too seriously......none of this is meant to insult or foment argument. It's, as Freddy said right off the bat, tongue in cheek, and meant to be somewhat humorous. So let's all lighten up a bit.

The trait I most admire in women, in all seriousness, is their compassion. This may be one fascet of femininity overall, as is their softness and their ability to bring beauty into an otherwise bland setting, but it is their ability to care about others, even in small ways, that I find most admirable. One year, not too long ago, about this time of year, my wife showed up at home after being gone for several hours, with about $400.00 in toys and clothing that she bought for the single purpose of donating it all to a local charity in order to help provide a better Christmas for kids who otherwise might have little to look forward to on the holiday. She watches television, and is deeply moved by small tragedies that happen to other people when she sees them. She goes out of her way to help others, even in small ways, just because she cares. She once bought a Christmas tree for a family that didn't have one. She received little in thanks when she did it, and had little or no further communication with them afterwards, suggesting that they were only partially grateful for her actions. Yet she continues to do things like this for people, without much regard for the gratitude she ever receives for doing these things. Her favorite charity is St. Jude's Childrens' Hospital in Memphis simply because these kids need people like her to help them survive.

I could (and do) learn a lot from her just by being around her.