Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Samantha_Smile

11-29-2011, 02:35 AM

Cant believe people get offended by cross dressing as this poor girl clearly does.
First point. Imitate by dress. Girls dont do it? Im calling BS on this one. Dita Von Tease being the number one example I can think of off the top of my head.
If girls weren't trying to imitate the appearance of another, then why cant I go on ebay looking for a knee length pencil skirt without seeing the words "Dita Von Tease" every 6th item listing or so?
Thats the end of that argument right there.

Im not certain whether she is confusing CDing with trans-sexual individuals.
Let me explain. She addresses her post to cross dressers, but goes on to seemingly complain,

"It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical"

Physical? Well yeah, of course it is. Clue is in the label- Cross Dresser. Not cross thinker or cross feeler, it's about the attire, the accessories all the trappings of what we consider to be feminine.
What body parts would we like to have? If breasts fill our dresses out better than flat chests, then we will buy forms. Whats wrong with wanting to look out potential best?
Again, this comes back to your main beef about it being physical. Well, you kinda already have your answer, we cross dress. We (should I say 'I') don't try to BE female, I try my damnedest to look female and enjoy the little time I get feeling feminine, but I genuinely think you have confused trans-sexual/ trans-gender individuals with straight forward cross dressers.

Rachel Flowers

11-29-2011, 03:20 AM

I read it that the question was addressed to us CDs because the GG gets the motivation of TSs but many CDs will say we don't want to become women, we want to experience being one. And that experienceis limited in many cases to the nice bits!

I'm interested to see that most replies so far are from TS despite Reine specifically addressing it to CDs; a womanly trait in TSs, perhaps? ;)

I feel I have a mix of genders within my personslity and I've found dressing to be enjoyable and reassuring since I was about 7. I don't kid myself for a moment that I am being a woman or coping with the stuff they have. I wonder whether CDs who say that have really thought it through.

I don't think she's offended, I think she's trying to resolve an anomaly in what some of us say.

BTW, is it fair to allow anonymous questions...?

ReineD

11-29-2011, 03:23 AM

BTW, is it fair to allow anonymous questions...?

Yes it is, Rachel. Most of our FAB members have husbands who are members, and sometimes they want to sort through some issues by themselves first, before discussing them with their husbands.

I'm interested to see that most replies so far are from TS despite Reine specifically addressing it to CDs; a womanly trait in TSs, perhaps?

Although I do know some members are definitely TS, there's no way for me to know how everyone identifies. So I'll leave it up to everyone's conscience to not post if they are TS. Hopefully, they can read! :p

If you are TS and you've posted, and then realized the thread is meant for CDs only, would you please go back and delete your post? Thanks! :)

Melody1985

11-29-2011, 04:02 AM

I totally agree with smile on this one.. They do call it cross-dressing for a reason. So essentially, there are some guys who just enjoy being temporarily feminine by partaking in various ways of female styling. With every intention of going back to male form.

If someone has a feeling of wanting to do more than the above, they may be starting to enter either gender confusion, or transsexuality. There are some who simply just want a more feminine form to look good though, but still want their primary life as a man. It really doesn't matter where everyone falls under the spectrum, since people are constantly changing all of the time, whether they are TGs or "normal."

So finally, my best answer to the GG who asked this, is that the CDs who maybe have expressed that they like their female counterpart more than their male one, or expressed that they want a female life in any way, that they are probably working things out in their heads.. aka, gender confused. Otherwise, take them at their word if they say they are CD, then that's what they are. Most people who have done this for a while are informed on the different term definitions, so I would just take what they say, and let that be it.

jaleecd

11-29-2011, 04:15 AM

I find that the feeling of fabrics that make up womens clothes are in stark contrast to what mens clothes are fashioned from, and in that difference, I feel a small connection to what a womens world is like. For example, the thinner fabrics lose heat quicker than the cottons, etc that I am used to. I have to layer in order to find a comfort level. The breast area of womens fashions expose more of the chest area for example, than i am used to. Many of the gurls on this forum comment on the air brushing bare or stockinged legs as a new and novel sensation. These are a small portion of things that fastinate me about the difference in what we normally are limited to in comparance to the freedom that women enjoy. I feel that most women costume their lives to match their activities. clothes for work out, golf, tennis, running, the gym etc.
In a sense, we CDers costume to feel as closely as we can what you are feeling. I am acutely aware of my awkward body compared to the grace and beauty that God blessed you with. I am also aware of the judging that women visit one upon the other, about style sense, color corridination, whats in or out, how you keep house, raise your children and a 1000 and 1 other areas your expected to pass muster. I have watched my daughter and grand daughters face the female judge mentalness that is an every day reality in their lives.
In spite of those and many other facts of feminine lives, I am envious of the closeness and loving support, the openess to share feelings and every day love that women have. I like the clothes, and would love to have the emotional closeness that is a natural part of the female world. As it is, all I can do is press my nose against the window that separates our worlds and envy what can never be mine...

Jonianne

11-29-2011, 04:41 AM

To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

I would have no idea what it takes to really be a female. And probably most cd'er's would agree. There is a major fetish componant to dressing, so that is why you read so much about the externals. But there are also a lot of cd'ers that try to look deeper than the surface, who love the beautiful inner qualities that come so natural to women, that so many of us who are male, want to follow after.

I agree that most of the mtf part of the forum is viewing women from the standpoint of the male mindset. Cd'ers are guys after all. And I can understand how from a certain perspective, it can be offensive, because women are still being sexually objectified, just in a little different way than non-cd'ers.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

Well, it would depend on the degree you admire and want to be like and identify with someone. One of the biggest payoff's in pro sports is selling articles of clothing that identify with the team desired. Buying and wearing a football jersey doesn't make you one of the team members, but it does identify you with the team.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

No, but if dressing helps us to feel more like who we are or want to be inside, then why shouldn't we, no matter where on the gender scale we are?

eluuzion

11-29-2011, 04:46 AM

Hey, I is not an retard…
This is one of those trick questions, isn‘t it?:D

The logical answer of course, is that a GG will have the most genuine and accurate information on that topic. I would assume that those that have a total commitment to finding out by transitioning, TS etc. would possess a more realistic perception and the knowledge “ladder” would progressively weaken in line with the commitment level and degree/length of time devoted to the “experience”.

The “what it takes” descriptive qualifier is a bit confusing to me when trying to respond to that question. It seems to make an assumption that it is possible to actually “become” or “transition into” the same biological and cognitive state that a GG female possesses from birth. I do not believe that it is possible to replicate any living thing with 100% accuracy without creating it from inception.

Taking that into consideration, I do believe it is possible to come close enough to satisfy those who are genuinely committed to achieving the maximum transition that is humanly possible. I also believe that those feeling like they were a born as a “female trapped” inside a male body” is a genuine condition that occurs. However, this does not preclude the fact that they were born as a genetic male and a GG female was born as a genetic female. This fact logically assumes becoming a female entails a complex process of altering the natural characteristics that a female does not require.

Moving on…backwards…to a more simplistic vantage point…to provide my opinion(s) based upon my observations on this forum…

I believe there is a lot of reality in your assessment that many (not all) of the perspectives presented in the posts here reflect an unrealistic, naïve, distorted, or fantasized perception of the intricate complexities inherent in GG females. Setting aside the obvious confabulations, some of the “genuine” beliefs revealed here is absolute nonsense that incredibly distorts reality in my mind. Some of those few who seem to have a reasonably grasp of reality are also influenced by their tendency to distort reality just enough to believe some of their unrealistic desires are attainable.

With the understanding that my previous thoughts apply …it appears to me that many Cdrs here do not have a realistic grasp of “what it takes”. I also feel that there is an overriding assumption that becoming more proficient at replicating the physical appearance and behavioral aspects of females is a viable technique that magically produces the ability to experience the same internal feelings, perspectives and cognitive processes inherent to GG females. I do not happen to share that belief. It defies/denies the logic and common sense that I rely upon to navigate my world.

My answer to your final question about ever making an assumption that “the grass is greener” on any side that is not the side I currently occupy…on any issue…no.
I have not engaged in that type of thinking yet, and have no plans to start in the future, even after they release me from this mental institution. :heehee:

:hugs:

:love:

Clueless

11-29-2011, 05:10 AM

I'm very new to the whole idea of CDing at a later age & I'm not sure where I'll end up with it. I can't speak about being TS, as I don't feel like I'm trapped in the wrong body type. Most CDers have been thinking about or dressing from a very young age.

Males can't know what it feels like to live life as a real woman or to experience pregnancy & have babies. IMHO women are complex (in a very good way) & are more fully developed human beings compared to men. Women truly are the superior sex. I hope my terrible male writing does not cause any misunderstandings & please no hate from the guys. Most guys (including me) could be better people, by becoming a bit less male & more female to some degree. Society could be a much better place with less testosterone & all the problems it can cause. To me it's normal human desire to try to learn about what I don't understand, and are attracted to. Have you ever thought about what it would feel like to be a guy & do some "guy" things? Most if not all CDers would live as a real female for awhile, if they could do so without any negative consequences & be able to go back to being a guy when they wanted to. Many wouldn't want to go back.

I think most males & females do have both masculinity & femininity in them to some degree. A gross simplification for something as complex as gender within the human brain. I think CDers are more willing to embrace their female/feminine side than most males. I'm sure that you have done things in your life where the male/masculine part of you comes out. How about aggression in things like physical fighting, destroying things, sports & sex? Not that those are male only traits. You have to admit that male fashion & "beauty" is a joke compared to women's fashion & beauty. A whole different world. You shouldn't take everything you read here about CDers wanting female body parts too seriously. Not too many CDers would or could really live with a real pair of breasts, or whatever full time. Some do though. I think it's really just about wanting to look fully female while being dressed up. I don't understand what you meant by the "very physical" part you mentioned. I don't get the female names or the bonding either, if that is what you meant by "like one big slumber party", but I'm new to this.

I think most admire women more than you can know. Intimation is the sincerest form of flattery. Do you admire the other gender, not just a person? Most men (who are honest) know that life for many women in today's society is not as it should be. That doesn't stop CDers from wanting to hop the fence & see what that grass feels like on their toes.

Noortje

11-29-2011, 05:19 AM

I think it is important to realise that crossdressers wish to emulate women to some degree. This degree is different for each individual. Not all crossdressers are interested in just the clothing and the makeup, but some are. I think most people on this forum are aware that it "takes more" to be a woman.

A crossdresser is someone who feels the need to emulate the other gender to some degree, with some frequency. If a crossdresser wishes to emulate women only partly, it makes sense that they would emulate only the looks. It is the most obvious difference between their gender, and the gender they wish to emulate. It is also the easiest part to emulate. You can just buy some clothing, and put it on. The same goes for makeup and to a lesser degree wigs and padding.

You ask:

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

Please understand that most crossdressers do not rationally choose to emulate what they admire. They feel a deep emotional desire to do what they do.

I hope this answers your questions somewhat. A problem is that crossdressing, or pretty much any gender-related issue, is horribly complex, poorly understood, and taboo in most settings. One of the reasons we have lively discussions on this forum is that we do not really understand what's going on ourselves, either. But you are most welcome to read and participate in the discussions.

Karren H

11-29-2011, 06:23 AM

Personally I'm not a woman or do I want to be one so I don't know whay it takes to be one. All I do know is being a woman looks like its way too much work for me! Lol.

Tara Twolane

11-29-2011, 06:34 AM

I know what its like to be a woman and GG knows what it is like to be a man. Its all about the love, compassion, respect and honesty of being human. Its not about what we wear, or drive, or how big our house is. Its about what's inside. Gender is only nature's way to sustain life.

LaurenB

11-29-2011, 06:58 AM

This question is really close to asking why we CD in the first place. I agree that the reason varies for each of us. Do we know what it takes to be a woman? I think I do to some degree. I grew up with a single mom and had two older sisters. Most of my early home life was heavily female influenced. I was a sensitive, heavy set teenager with larger than normal breasts (gynecomastia). I regularly got the snot beat out of me by other boys both physically and emotionally. I liked hanging with the girls in high school much more than my male friends. I still relate better to women than men to this day. Many years of societal behavior modification (survival, basically) has made me indistinguishable from any other "normal" guy. You wouldn't know it to look at me on the street. But I nurture, I'm sensitive, I'm intuitive and creative. While these aren't attributes of all women of course, they are generally not the sort of strengths you apply to the males of our specie. Being a genetic male means that we have a fair amount of testosterone being produced in our systems (even those of us who aren't exactly models of the male form). So yes many times the act of CDing is overrun by the sex drive we all are hormonally condemned to - a fetish. That's why you see these sort of sophomoric and naive posts. That's how it starts. In my case, as I have grown older, the natural tendency for male hormones to diminish starts to eliminate the need to simply satisfy a sexually associated need by CDing. So I find the act of dressing pretty and feminine and neat probably as much as any GG. Question back to the OP (or any GG): Don't you love to try on a new dress? Don't you love the way certain clothes feel? Doesn't your wardrobe have the power to make you feel confident or sexy or lovable? If you didn't, you'd wear jeans, a sweat shirt and boots every day. So we grow up male in a male dominated society - with very little tolerance outside of the "norm". We can't totally know what it means to be a woman but I think some of us evolve continually in that direction. I can't ever truly know it but I also will never really be a female - I can't unlearn those hard lessons of man-hood from my early years and I'm not getting rid of this body. But I now feel fortunate that I can walk the line and choose to visit either gender side that suits me.

LeannL

11-29-2011, 07:06 AM

First of all, I am a crossdresser so I answer this question within that context.

I am not a woman and will never be one. I am a male who has a number of traits that fit what is considered by many to be feminine including some feelings such as nurturing, love of babies, and the like (I realize that classifying emotions as male or female is playing into a stereotype but I think that is part of the question.) I also find the need to express my femininity by dressing in what is generally considered female clothing.

When I look at a woman, I look at them as I believe a "standard" male looks at them but I also look at their clothing as I appreciate the effort they must have put into their looks as well as attempting to learn from them. i don't believe I am trying to imitate them unless you believe learning from someone is imitating them.

I don't believe that "the grass is greener on the other side." Why? I believe this because there is no other side for me. I am what I am and I do what I do because it is who I am - a crossdresser.

So I guess that for my specific situation, I just don't accept the basic premise of the questions apply to me.

Hope this helps,
Leann

LeaP

11-29-2011, 07:27 AM

Do I know? It might be surprising, but yes, I think I do to a great degree. I've experienced it through wives, children, and relatives - over many years, though wonderful as well as some horrendous experiences. And while experiencing something, even as close as with a partner or as a participant, isn't the same as being something, I think people give short shrift to empathy. Haven't you ever had the sudden realization of another person's emotional state or point of view? It can be incredibly powerful. Similarly, the experience of actually feeling like you are part of someone? (I don't mean the flush of infatuation, either.)

I don't think the grass is greener, not by a long shot. Women and men almost live in separate cultures in many ways, both with pros and cons. Again, though, most men have known others who live in the world of women and can easily see the differences. Some in the forum DO live as women, even some that are "only" crossdressers. Empathy plays as well here, too.

Some crossdressers dress because they admire women or how they look. I don't fully understand why I dress, but I can say it's not for those reasons. At this point, I identify as transgender. Women's clothing feels in many ways (not all) like my natural clothing, as natural, in fact, as male clothing. I.e., it's not dress-up play.

The OP hints at superficialities in the question about posts on colors, underwear, etc. I agree fully with Smile's response. Calling out one aspect of a forum that also involves serious, substantial, lengthy, and informed discussion on a huge range of gender issues is manifestly unfair. One need only to point to the immense women's fashion industry to to point out that the accusation makes more sense (using the OP's argument) when directed at women. That would be equally unfair, though it positively dwarfs the men's fashion industry.

Lea

gabimartini

11-29-2011, 07:27 AM

BRANDYJ

11-29-2011, 07:31 AM

I think I know where our Anonymous GG is coming from. I am a man that happens to like dressing and acting as beautiful as what I admire so much..that is of course a woman. At the same time I happen to be glad I'm not a woman. Sadly women are still considered second class citizens and below men. How sad in this day and age, but true. I am glad I don't have to deal with much of what women have to put up with. Starting with giving birth and the next few years of being the primary care person for an infant. Most men are not strong enough to deal with it. Second, those monthly "friends" women have to deal with. Next, the generally lower pay for the same job. not sure I'd like being the next bed partner for every man that can't think much of anything else when I'd dress nice and go about my daily business looking.
I too don't get some of the threads here that the male CD's post. Like the one about what color panties are you wearing today. That's none of no ones business and frankly not what women would be compelled to share on-line with other women. I wish that thread would just go away! Same for dumb questions like breasts or vagina. It's like that's all we think about! No so for me and many that also ignore threads like that.
Back to the question: Yes, I think I have a clear idea of what being a woman is. Enough of an idea to know it would not be something I'd want to deal with. Being a male and a CD, is easier! I can pick and chose what there is about women that I want to experience. True, mostly to dress in some of the clothes that are otherwise made exclusively for women. Yes, I do feel like I have somewhat of a dual gender in much of my core values, but I never forget that I am a man and happy about it. I'm also happy that my SO loves her man and likes her CD from time to time. I adore, respect and admire women for the strength they have. In fact they have to put up with men and all the not so nice manly things we men sometimes do. yes, that includes our crossdressing. Now that takes a special kind of Lady and a special kind of love. More then what most men would be capable of giving back if the show was on the other foot.

jillleanne

11-29-2011, 07:42 AM

I think it's important to understand if someone by labelling is a true CD, then they have no desire to understand what it takes to be a woman nor do they have any intention to become one. They do however, have a love for the emotions they feel within physically and emotionally when they wear clothing normally associated with the opposite birth gender. For most, probably in the early years, there is a sexual element to it. Whether that stays with them I do not know. For me the sexual element left years ago and today it's simply the overall feeling I get by presenting myself to myself and others. There is a euphoria I experience when dressing like a female irregardless of whether I am at home or out and about shopping, dining, whatever. There is also a feeling of normality, a comfort level mentally if you will, that I experience that tells me this is who I partially am; one and a half people if you will but only one person completely. Outside of the biological natural senses of a woman, we understand what woman have to endure in life, but to say we understand the inner feellings of the biological woman is just never going to ever happen period. Is it the same as we feel? No way of knowing.
I would question your not wanting to imitate someone. You may not consciously know it at the time, but buying any big brand name article of clothing is indeed imitating someone else whether it be the girl in the tv commercial or whatever, even if only to a small degree. A sense of fitting in by buying the product, acceptance if you will. Looking good in a mirror is self gratification/acceptance. Wearing a big brand name is imitating someone you are not, even if it looks good on you. It's the brand name that makes you feel that way, not the fit.
Being a CD for most is a small moment in time. The ability to crossdress only occurs during a small time frame for most, particularly those in a closet which is most. If 60 minutes for example was the average( I do not know) one stays as a cd that day, then any talk of breasts, etc. is simply a fantasy during that time dressed. It's a burning desire to look as real as possible during the time spent en femme and at the same time, experience the feeling they get inside every time they dress. When the cd'er returns to drab, the fantasy of having breasts disappears as well. Oh sure, one will often think about having a vagina or big cleavage, but deep down they know it's just a fantasy, not reality nor will it ever be a reality in our lifetimes. But it is fun to think that way even for a moment. Ask any true cd if he would like to have big breasts everyday so all his male friends could see them and guess what the answer would be? Yes in a fantasy world and no in the real world, and probably yes in a perfect world which it isn't and never will be and they all know that too.
Of course the grass is greener on the other side. If it weren't, we would all drive a grey four door Camry, live in a white house with black shutters, have four perfect children all going to university soon, a live-at-home mom raising them, and a dad you drinks from a cup that says, " Greatest Dad".
That "Leave It To Beaver" field on the other side of the road gives us all a break from reality no matter what the reality is. It gives us a reason to question and at the same time, express ourselves, our life, and our futures as individuals and as human beings.

kimdl93

11-29-2011, 07:53 AM

Gabi said everything I would have wanted to say.

Carol Elizabeth

11-29-2011, 07:58 AM

sara.s

11-29-2011, 08:10 AM

Alberta_Pat

11-29-2011, 08:12 AM

This is an interesting topic, with a variety of well thought responses.

I do crossdress. I underdress all the time. A couple of times a month, I put on the complete outfit and meet with "like minded" people. We have a great time together chatting about a variety of things.

This is a totally different interaction from my daily life. I enjoy this break from "reality".

Most of the people I associate with while dressed are well spoken, knowledgeable, and open. Those I see while in "guy mode" are notably different.

I enjoy the feeling of the clothing, and "pushing" the boundaries of Society. Sometimes the boundaries "push back", but not often. Clothing is simply a way to cover the body, and keep it warm. If Society did not label clothing by gender, I would certainly be out more in skirts and blouses, and I think a lot more men would do the same.

I have always placed Women on a pedestal, and through my actions, I try to join them there at times. Doesn't always work though.

Kelly DeWinter

11-29-2011, 08:14 AM

Hmmmmm

Reine and Anymous poster :)

I would not try to answer for anyone other then myself, No I do NOT know what it takes to be a woman, and I doubt that I ever will. I know that there are times that on the inside I do not feel what would be described as a 'typical' male. One of the things I crave is a deeper level of communication and understanding with the people around me that women have with one another. There are times I would like to be able to go to a male friend and say "I feel ..." and have a meaningful conversation. There are times I get ready for work and put on 2-3 different outfits before deciding on something ? For me dressing is an outward manifistation of how I feel on the inside. Some days it's 'Alpha Male' and I can talk football and drink beer with the best of the guys. Other days it's 'Kelly' and it's talking family,fashion and friends over a glass of wine. There are days I wish women could see what its like to be in my shoes for a couple of days and realize how lonely a mans world can be. I would love to post more, but it's time for work.

Huggs

Kelly

Tina B.

11-29-2011, 08:39 AM

We're busted, it is a great big slumber party on the INTERNET, that's why we are here. We get to gossip, talk about silly things like clothes and make up, how we feel about boys, girls and everything else. After all most of us didn't get to do slumber party's when we where teens.
Now as to why I dress, I don't know, and I just can't make something up. It's something I have done since I was a small child, do I want to be a women, heck no, just playing dress up is work enough for me, and it's just a part time thing, the rest of the time, it would just be silly. Do I admire women, no more or less than I do men, it's who you are not what you are. do I think it's greener on the other side of the fence, for some it is, for some, it's a lot harder, there again, it's situational, not gender related. All I can really tell you about why I do this is, if I don't I get depressed, resentful, and angry deep inside, and I become someone that I can't stand, and neither could anyone else. My wife and I have both come to realize it's just something that we live with, so we can live together in harmony. It works for us!
Tina B.

cassandra54

11-29-2011, 09:09 AM

On occasion, the FAB forum mods will receive a request from an anonymous GG to post a question in the MtF forum. I've received such a request this evening:
*Originally Posted by Anonymous GGTo Crossdressers:*
I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.*
Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.*
On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

EDIT - The GG in question just contacted me in response to post #3, to say this question is indeed asked to Crossdressers and not TSs. The body parts thread she refers to is a thread in the MtF and not the TS section. There are many responses, mostly from CDs:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?159140-Breasts-or-Vagina

And also, she refers to the many posts throughout the MtF section where CDs say they are hetero in guy mode, but they want to be with men when dressed.

This is a great thread and a great question. I have posted and responded to threads with similar content. I have some good input, or at least i think so and I will try to be brief. Let me preface this by referring to a conversation my SO and I had just this weekend. She usually dresses in jeans and a top. When she was in the corporate world, it was dress slacks, jackets, skirts and hose. She said she did this for many years and mentioned things like always having spare hose in her desk just in case and how uncomfortable this was in the summer. I told her that this was all new to me. But given the choice of wearing a dress or a skirt or wearing jeans and a top, well to me there is no comparison. I embrace the additional femininity that a dress or a skirt affords me. But the dresses and skirts are not always worn with hose and I do wear just jeans and a top sometimes. I am not always going to the sexy or glam look. I am trying to develop what my style would be if I dressed all the time, which would include casual and dress, pants, skirt, dresses, hose, socks, tights, and of course lingerie. Sunday morning, I wore a sweater and jeans, along with panties, a bra and breast forms and of course my wig, earrings and just some lipstick as I had on makeup from the night before. We decided to go to an early movie, and I changed. I was still wearing my jeans, but put on men's underwear, washed all the makeup from the night before off of my face and went out as my male self. I don't underdress.
So with that in mind, here are some of my responses.

1. I think a bigger question is: How many of us dress just to look like a woman or how many of us dress to look like a woman and wish to experience life as a woman as much as we can with physical limitations and try to feel feminine?
2. For me it is the latter of the two. I would never consider conventional SRS, hormones or anything like that. I consider myself a no-op TG. However if there was say a transplant that could make me biologically identical to a GG, I might consider that.
3. It's not always magic when I dress. It depends on how the rest of my life is going. Dressing and acting like a woman takes a serious and conscious effort. I don't always wear pretty lingerie or hose. Real GGs don't. And like them , just like on Sunday morning I wore just basic beige cotton panties, and a beige bra. A lot of people here talk about what it's like to be a woman, be feminine, but I think the real test is to see how you can be or feel that way with just simple things.
4. I've become aware over the years that I don't fit in well with other men. I've discovered that I am probably androgynous. I don't hate my life as a man, but rather I enjoy and make good use of the many ways I am different. If I never dressed or thought about it, I would still be happy and well adjusted as a man. However because I became aware that I have some feminine traits, mannerisms and habits, I am overjoyed. I have a different way to experience part of my life now. Like I said, it's not always magic when I dress. The rest of my life still remains in place. I have a job, bills to pay and a relationship with my SO to deal with, along with all of my other wants and desires.
5. At times in my life, I was in a gay relationship, had bisexual experiences and live most of my life hetero. Anymore, I just consider myself just sexual. I live with my SO, but am free to have playmates, either male or female. Since I've really come out as Cassandra, my desire for this is not as strong as it used to be. I've found that most me who say the are bi, or want to play with CDs are seriously messed up to put it nicely, are animals or just perverts. Women don't really understand, but I am hopefully. So these days, I am open, but very, very selective to whom I share my body with. I think this in itself is a feminine thing that has develped.

So yeah, maybe I get it or maybe I don't. What say you?

Sara Jessica

11-29-2011, 09:27 AM

I can read ;) and I won't make this about me. However, the first thing that came to mind as I read this question was a recent situation a friend of mine found herself in. If you had to paint her with a particular brush, she self-ID's as a CD'er and she made some comments to which I replied as follows:

...You may say that you could never know what it is to be a woman but your heart betrays that sentiment. I do think you know more than you give yourself credit for...

My point is that even when someone might claim not to know a thing about what it is to be a woman, there are subtleties under the surface which are simply part of us. These things are not so much traits one can learn, the seeds must be present in order to be cultivated should they be recognized.

It may not be the complete package of the feminine experience that only natal females can know but still, there are personality traits, habits, expressions that if natural come as close to knowing what it is to be a woman as a lot of us can ever hope to get.

NicoleScott

11-29-2011, 10:44 AM

I've read and re-read the Anonymous post and still have trouble seeing a legitimate question there. It strikes me as rhetorical: you'll never know what it's really like to be a woman; it's just one big dressup fantasy.

Marleena

11-29-2011, 11:05 AM

Okay, I'll bite but this only applies to me. I respect and admire women, always have. I'm only interested in women in either mode.

Cding is a need for me I need to do it. I started CDing as a kid like most of us. I only recently embraced it because I'm tired of fighting it. It won't go away. I'll compare it to a gambling addiction only for comparison. A gambler has something tuggin away at them to gamble. Hard core gamblers think about it all the time. They will sneak around and find money to keep enjoying themselves. BUT gambling can be cured usually, therapists say this is with us for good.

I don't understand the urge either. I just go with it now. I want to be feminine when I dress, fully dressing is the best way for most of us. I do not want real boobs, forms are fine for me. In guy mode I'm your typical male.

Only a genetic female knows what it takes to be a real woman because they are one. Grass greener on the other side? I don't know or care I do what's right for me. If people don't get it oh well... Too many don't get it so we have to hide.

That's it. I want to keep it short.

IamSara

11-29-2011, 11:30 AM

Dear Anonymous GG,

First of all, thank you for your question. Such questions produce a good opportunity for us CDers to reflect and gather understanding about what we do and why we do it, and then share some of those findings.

I think I understand where you are coming from, because even I, as a CDer, am bothered by some of these threads that seem to focus only on the trivial, frivolous and morphologic aspects of being female. Though I sometimes feel differently from some of my peers, crossdressing is not a science. Different people pursue it for different reasons. And in all fairness, no single reason is better or more legitimate than the next. All are equally valid.

Perhaps, to better address your questions, I should tell you a bit about myself. I started dressing at age 5 or 6. I fantasized about growing up and developing into a woman. Through puberty I understood it wouldn't happen. So, I embraced my gender the best I could and tried to act manly, as was expected of me. Having to sustain that outer masculine shell led to a big disconnect, full of anguish, confusion and self-loathing.

Through my teens and twenties these gender issues would come back to haunt me on occasion, but I'd just shove them back inside the closet, as I had done countless times. Until the closet door finally bust open, spilling everything in my face, and I was forced to deal with it. After some period of analysis paralysis, I was able to educate myself enough to first understand and then accept my life. It was either this or else.

So, you see, it's not a big slumber party to me. There is no choice involved, as I was born this way and can't help it. I'm not ready for transitioning and don't know if I'll ever be. So, CDing provides me with temporary relief to that eternal anguish, by bringing me closer to being the woman I was meant to be from the start. Do I know what's it like being a GG? Certainly not, but I'd give everything I have to find out and never look back.

Bottom line, it is not a matter of thinking that the grass is greener on the other side, but of knowing that, whichever side is greener, my grass is sitting on the WRONG side of that fence.

I can imagine this may be a difficult time for you, one of many questions and not enough answers, so I hope this helps. Please let me know if there's anything else you would like to know and I'll be happy to delve into it.

Take care and be well.

I could not have said it better than this.. As in Gabriella's case I realized in my early on in my life what I should have been. I also have repressed these feelings all my life and acted as macho as I can. The little bit of time that I can dress and really feel comfortable is my escape into what I should have been. I struggle sometimes not wanting this in my life at all and to just make it go away. That isn't going to happen and we all know that including my wife. It is a struggle since I have but my wife and my kids realize that part of my makeup and the way I treat them is due to the feminine side of me. The man side of me tends to be a real jerk.
I guess I kind of got off track there but in answer to your question I would say that I am taking advantage of being acting and being a woman by wearing the clothes because that is as close as I can come to being a woman. Sad but true. I will not give up my life as a man because I love my wife dearly and will not ruin that relationship by taking the next steps to becoming a transgendered person.

Amy Lynn3

11-29-2011, 12:00 PM

ReineD, May I suggest the anonymous gg read the post..Something I Want Take For Granted Again. It is written by another gg and it expresses what most crossdressers feel and seek. If one looks deep enough into her post they will get a better understanding of what crossdressing is all about. I hope that is what the anonymous poster seeks, rather than just sour grapes.

Jenniferathome

11-29-2011, 12:04 PM

Dear Anonymous GG,

You will get a hundred viewpoints on your question. Like all things, there will be a bell curve of responses. Mine will fall into the mainstream, I think. Firstly, I do not want to be a woman. Occasionally, I like to express myself in a female persona. It makes me feel good to try on outfits and look "pretty." I suspect, in the very same way that any woman would. When dressed, I do not think I am a woman I simply like the look that I can achieve and love the clothing styles, fabrics, colors, etc. I have no desire to be with a man. I think that is quite a minority among crossdressers and likely they are homosexual crossdressers who have not yet come to grips with homosexuality. What I told my wife is that I know I dress as an idealized or sterotypical woman. Hey, I like dresses. Mostly I like the transformation. Once transformed, I simply feel pretty, a feeling I can never have as a guy. Nothing more.

GeminaRenee

11-29-2011, 12:11 PM

Since I am not yet entirely familiar with the machinations of this particular forum, and don't know how to break the OP into individual quotes, I will just have to commence in barbaric fashion. Please bear with me, I feel I've got something to say...

"I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman."

Is there a universal definition? Do you know what it's like to be a Somalian grandmother, or a young girl growing up in Taipei? Everyone's life is constructed from their frame of reference - your definition of a woman is based upon the various factors and experiences unique to your life. What "womanhood" means to my femme self,Kali Brooke, is of course, also going to be different than your perspective on the topic - because Kali Brooke is a man, was raised a man, and has always viewed womanhood from the outside. I have no idea of what it means to have a uterus, give birth, have a period, etc, and nor do I want to have those uniquely female experiences. Kali just wants to dress up prettily, wear soft things, and enjoy the everlasting challenge of trying to turn something largely unfeminine, and not particularly pretty, into something that is those things from time to time. That is what crossdressing means to me. I'm also sure that this definition can't be applied to plenty of other t-girls. As human beings, we're all at different spots along a continuum, and a multidimensional one at that. Cxing is just a way for me to embrace what I see and enjoy in life.

"It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums."

Hmmm, is it more than that? Again, we're running into those pesky definitions. According to the strict, theoretical definition of a CD, it's really not much more than that. But let's start divesting ourselves of definitions, because they're far too narrow to really encapsulate the broadness of the human experience. I'm sure a lot of girls on here who ID as CD experience some gender dysphoria, some desire to go beyond the outward accoutrements of it all. By that same token, there are unquestionably other people who ID as CD, yet are content to simply throw on a pair of dirty panties and a pair of L'Eggs and call it good. We all exist on a continuum. For me, it's mostly about the clothes, the makeup. So what? That's me. And I like your analogy of a slumber party... that's what the Kali in me wants: girlfriends to laugh and giggle with and have silly fun with, and maybe make out with when no-one is looking. As a CD, for me, it's about fun and superficiality. Do you know what it takes to be Kali Brooke? (;

"Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc."

I don't know if I believe your answer. We're all imitators in one way or another. Even when we think we're being unique (and maybe we are, in a relative sense), we're still taking cues from others, whether overtly or covertly. I see what you mean; I may admire Mohandas Gandhi from a philosophical perspective, but that doesn't mean I'm going to dress like him. I don't even know how he dresses! But, I absolutely fawn over the way Kim Kardashian looks, so if I see her in US Weekly wearing the hottest pair of tan platform pumps I've ever seen, then I'm going to take a cue and go after a pair myself. It's all superficial, but so what? I liked the analogy of following a sports team. I may put on a Detroit Lions jersey, but I'll never be mistaken for one of the Detroit Lions, nor would that be my intent in wearing it. I'm expressing in interest in my interpretation of the subject. Make sense?

"On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

No, I don't. I'm well aware that surviving & thriving as a woman in today's world is a complex thing that's not all fun, games, & lipgloss. Nor am I one of those "male apologists" that believe that women are somehow the superior gender. Believe me, I've been exposed to some awful cattiness, backstabbing, and passive aggressive behavior on the part of women. Earlier this year, I was involved with a girl who was, in retrospect, pure, selfish evil. Fact is, people from all genders can be good or bad, wonderful or complete asshats. Personally, I like the grass on my side of the fence: the side where I can watch football, spend all day taking photographs, or maybe slip into a babydoll & some thigh highs. It's a big yard, with a nice privacy fence. (;

In sum, I don't totally agree with everything you've said, nor would I deny that you've made some valid suppositions. I can only answer for myself, of course. I'm sure lots of other CD girls would find my interest in boyshorts & body glitter to be entirely vapid. So what? That's what I enjoy, that's where I fall on the continuum of things. So don't judge, don't hate, and do everyone a favor and toss out the word "definition," except perhaps in relation to eyebrows. Anywhere else in the CD/TG/TS/TV/DQ/GQ/Etc community, it's not doing anyone any favors!

sissystephanie

11-29-2011, 12:14 PM

I was born a man, and unless something really changes I will die a man! Yes, I do crossdress simply because I love the fit, feel, and look of feminine clothing. I started wearing my sisters panties at age 6, and have crossdressed most of the time since then. But I have NEVER wanted to be a woman, and have never had sex with anyone other my late wife!! I like to dress as a woman, but that is as far as it goes!! BTW, with my wife no longer available to do the work I no longer wear makeup or a wig when I go out dressed enfemme!! Just a man in feminine clothing!

girlygirly

11-29-2011, 12:18 PM

I always dress in female clothing, but I'm fairly discrete and don't put on makeup, wear breast forms and hip padding, go out in a dress, or try to pass in any way, because my voice would give me away, along with muscular arms and such. Yes, I wouldn't mind being a girl, just to try it out, but probably not if it was permanent. I would probably want to try it all out, including having sex with men, and trying to get the right ones to take interest in me without looking like a tramp. I would want to feel what it was like to be a woman, and having to survive in a "man's world". I don't think I would want to stay that way, though. I've always been mostly OK with being a guy, when it all comes down to it.

I wouldn't want a to change my designated sex, I don't want to have sex with men while I'm in any mode, and I respect the right of women to be the only ones who consistently get to behave like women. I'm fine with letting nature be, I just like wearing the clothes and dreaming about what it would be like to be a girl once in a while.

Cheryl T

11-29-2011, 12:22 PM

MMmm...Do I know what it takes to be a woman?
May I ask in return, Do you know what it takes to be a woman?
I'm not asking to be silly, I'm just presenting the question.
Certainly you know what it takes to be female, but does that make one a woman? This seems more philosophical than anything else and if that is the case then do any of us have the true answer?

While I'm not TS, I am more than CD and personally it is not the panties, the stockings, the heels, the skirts or the physical attributes of a female that drive me to express my feminine side. Actually I don't know what the motivator is. Had I been able to answer that question at some point during my life I would most likely be in a different place than I am now. I don't feel that anyone can tell me why I feel as I do, but it's not because I covet the clothes deemed feminine by society. Those articles simply allow me to present to the world the image that expresses my inner feelings.
Over time I've discovered that I don't need sexy lingerie or exotic dresses and heels to feel the way I need to feel. That is accomplished as well in jeans and t-shirt.

No, I probably cannot tell you what it is to be a woman, but then I cannot tell you what it is to be a man either.
Society has it's perception of each and I believe we all have our own definition.

Miss Maxine

11-29-2011, 12:31 PM

What if I said I don't have what it takes? Does that somehow invalidate me? If so, to whom, and do I really care if those people consider my actions to be illegitimate? I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone, so such questions are lost on me. I do what I do because I like it...not because I want some sort of social acceptance.

Katelyn B

11-29-2011, 12:36 PM

KaliBrooke makes a good point, what exactly is this secret "womanness" you feel that men lack.

Its an issue I've struggled with for a very long time, how do you really know what you are, what does being a woman actually feel like, and if I feel like that and not a man and am therefore a transsexual, how would I know because I just feel the same as ever, there's nothing to compare it to, I'll always be "me" and innately feel like me. In which case reverse the question, do I feel like a man?, what do other men feel like inside. I don't think that makes sense, but I'm trying to say its impossible to compare one person to another regardless of gender when you take away social constructs.

Is it any harder to "have what it takes" to be a woman then it is to be a genetic male who needs to be one at any point on a sliding scale of under dressing to having transitioned full time, both bring with them there own set of problems, trials, and joy in any ratio you can think of, its down to the individuals experience. Is it really more than shoes? for most / some people of course it is, but some no it isn't, there are people on both sides of the genetic divide who embrace traits of the other without ever considering themselves transgendered, so there must be something more to the need of dressing as the opposite sex. For some there is going to be a fetishistic element to it, but I can't speak to that because its not what I get out of my chosen "lifestyle" (for want of a better word)

You did ask for mainly CD responses, and whilst I have no idea what I am I'm pretty certain I fall quite far away from that definition, but from your question it sounds like a challenge, asking people to justify who they are to you.

KandisTX

11-29-2011, 12:39 PM

On occasion, the FAB forum mods will receive a request from an anonymous GG to post a question in the MtF forum. I've received such a request this evening:

EDIT - The GG in question just contacted me in response to post #4, to say this question is indeed asked to Crossdressers and not TSs. The body parts thread she refers to is a thread in the MtF and not the TS section. There are many responses, mostly from CDs:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?159140-Breasts-or-Vagina

And also, she refers to the many posts throughout the MtF section where CDs say they are hetero in guy mode, but they want to be with men when dressed.

Dear Anonymous GG,

My simplest answer is "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". In truth for me, I am a heterosexual male who enjoys the beauty of crossdressing. I do not know what it truly takes to BE a woman as I have never been a woman. I have emulated women whom I have observed in my life and all in all it has just been me with some feminine attributes added on whilst dressed in my pretty finery. I have no desire to change my gender, nor have I ever enteratined the thought. Sometimes it really irks me to read some of the posts you referenced with regard to "What female body parts do you want" or "I desire to be with men ONLY when dressed but I am hetero". By the very definition of being bisexual If one desires intimacy with BOTH genders they are classifed as bisexual. I have never had the desire to have intimate relations with a man, while some intimate encounters with my own female partners involved what some would probably call leaning toward bisexuality, since it was not with a genetic male, it is only chalked up to being "kinky". A dear TS friend of mine once said when asked what she was answered "I'm more man than you shall ever be, and more woman than you shall ever obtain". I think that about sums up my thinking with regard to being a TG.

Ressie

11-29-2011, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

Seems to be more of a statement than a question. Where's the ?

I understand there's a lot more to being a woman than clothing, make up etc. If I were a TS I might be more interested in going to arts & craft shows or getting hormone treatments. There's no way IMO of crossdressers knowing what it's really like to be a female. Just as there's no way for a female to know everything about being male. But most CDs are much more in tune with women's feelings than most men, don't ya think?

I believe one would have to experience truly being the opposite sex to really know what it's like. As a CD, I can only wonder and imagine - although I've never imagined myself as having babies. In conclusion, how many GGs really understand what it's like to be a MtF CD?

Sally24

11-29-2011, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

You seem to be doing some selective reading. There are plenty of threads on all sorts of things. I agree there are many about the more shallow elements to being/appearing as a woman. Part of that is those things are in the reach of almost everyone. Many CDs don't even contemplate something deeper because it is not economically or socially possible for them. They do the bare minimum that will make them feel a little better.

It is also much easier to discuss clothing and makeup with strangers than the hard to describe feelings of loneliness and wrongness. Though many of us are not TS, we have a deeper connection to the female side than just dressing-up. When we don't even understand it ourselves, it can be extremely difficult to frame into words for others.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

I might say more accurately that it's a different type of grass. I've been married 33 years and also have a 30 year old daughter so I am intimately familiar with just what good and bad go with being female. Would you admit that women are treated differently than men in almost all social situations? I know they are and much prefer how women interact than how men do. And I know all the physical and emotional pain that can be experienced by a women in our world. I would willingly take the good with the bad if given that choice.

Now note that there are many recreational CDers who have no interest in anything but the fun. I don't think they reflect the majority of us, but that's just a guess.

docrobbysherry

11-29-2011, 01:43 PM

"I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman."

Not a clue! Do YOU KNOW what it takes to be a man? Neither do I! And, I r one!

"Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc."

It has NOTHING to do with "admiration" for ME. And, everything to do with attraction! Dressing is an unbelievable exciting hi for me! I can no more explain it to u, than u can explain to me what being a woman is like!

"On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side.."

Just like a woman! I don't get this! What precisely do u mean? Judging from the other replies, the other members here aren't sure either!

Alice Torn

11-29-2011, 01:45 PM

I dress for a lot of reasons. I first had the urge at a young age, about 14, vur did not fully dress until 51! I have never been married, been a lonely, but artistic and expressive male, yet was stuck on blue collar jobs, including gravedigger. I don't think very many women have a clue about the stark lonliness, rejection, and inner sorrow many men are afflicted with. Dressin up as an attractive lady, is one diversion and escape from my lonely world, as an unwanted male, in a female dominated America, where men are not needed anymore.It is fun, thrilling, tet a lot of work. I realize that women have the opposite problem, of too many men hitting on them. I have personal ads out there as my male self, and almst never have a response. I also have personals out there. as my lady self. Almost everyday, new guys are hitting on my lady ad!

Barbara Ella

11-29-2011, 02:47 PM

Keep trying to respond to this thoughtful thread. Kudos to the OP and the responders. I get tears in my eyes when I go back to the onion analogy (chuckle, bad one I know) but it fits in with the emotional development we all go through as we progress from a child (newbie) to an adult (person reaching their stable level of activity). There is nothing wrong with slumber parties, juvenile talk, etc. I think the majority of the GG went through that as they grew up. When we first recognize we are CD we are as children. We may be a mature male, but we know nothing about what we are programmed to do, express our femme side. What little girl didnt get her fingernails painted by Mom, and what little boy didnt get disappointed when he was told no. and what little boy didnt get delighted when Mom loved him as much as his sister.

The slumber parties of the juvenile GG where they did the girly stuff and talked the girly stuff was expected at that stage of their life. I responded to the panty color thread, because for a lot of us, we are in the juvenile stage of our development, but have to deal with matured capabilities, hence the dichotomy in our behavior. Sure we know it is trivial, but it is developmentally appropriate IMHO. Most will mature and progress to other concerns, eventually reaching a stable level of development. For some that may be SRS, for others they will never get closer to it than reading the wonderful posts and seeing the joy of those who do realize their dreams. We all have dreams. Can I explain them no way, but I believe in them, and know that my femme side has taken a larger bite of my heart and brain that i gave it credit for a long time. Now it is fighting back, and if I go overboard, so be it. I fault my male side for supressing my femme side for so long, so without compromising my very necessary male side, my girl is going to let it all out til she drops, just part of my maturing. i only hope that I mature I can approach the sensibility of a GG without becoming one. To gain that, my self needs to experience in a rather short time all the things you as a GG experienced over your lifetime that made you what you are today. Not all, I know, but each experience is a progression.

Sorry to babble, but isnt that what young girls do, and I am just a toddler in an adult body.

Babes

Kathi Lake

11-29-2011, 02:52 PM

Wow, I have so much to add. And yet, after reading the preceding posts, I would say that I have nothing to add, other than my agreement.

Yes, Anonymous GG, you will certainly see many posts about the external things. For some of us, it is all we'll ever know. Guys, being the visual creatures that we are, tend to key on what we see. What we see is what we know, essentially. You will also see some posts from those that 'get it.' You will see those here who understand that it isn't what we look like. It isn't what we buy or wear or do, but what is in our hearts and minds. As Sara said, there are things under the surface. We may not know what it is to be women, never being one, but we are men. We know what it is like, both through who we are, who our peers are, and who we are socialized to be. Some of us here know what a man is supposed to be, and we see ourself . . . lacking, if that's the right word. So, in a binary society, if you're not one, you're the other, right? :)

As for the slumber party aspect, yes. I can see that. This is a place where we can engage in many types of fantasies, and have people who won't look down on us for it. It is a place of support. Because of that support, sometimes anything goes, and the conversation topics run from the interesting to the inane.

:)

Kathi

DonnaT

11-29-2011, 02:55 PM

For me, it's not about being female nor admiration for females. Nor is it about trying to emulate or imitate being female.

It's all about the clothes. How they feel, and how I feel in them.

When I first started, out of simple curiosity, it just felt right for some reason. I chalk it up to being trans, not as a fetish.

And being trans means different things to everyone. There is a wide variety of being trans, so some may be more feminine than others, etc. etc.

When my wife asked me a similar question, she wanted to know why I needed to wear a wig and makeup. I explained that I don't need to, and would be perfectly fine with just wearing a skirt out and about. Her response was, not with me you wouldn't. She'd rather I wore the wig and makeup out and about if she's with me.

Rachel Flowers

11-29-2011, 03:18 PM

I really worry that the Anonymous GG is not going to get what she needs from this thread. This morning I corrected another poster for interpreting the question as bitter or negative but the more I read it the more, like others have commented here, it reads like she is afraid to ask the question she really needs the answer to and that question is one she must address to her own partner. The question has made some people here defensive, some defiant, some flippant and some gloriously generous and supportive; but no answer she can get from us will be valid for her own relationship. Did she anticipate we would give her a reply she could use to slap her partner in the face? Did she hope the voice of this forum could reassure her the he is faithful, isn't going to turn into a woman, isn't going to embarrass her in public? Her question seems so full of unspoken upset and anger (I accept I could be totally wrong, but her need to stay anonymous unfolds a panoply or possible interpretations.)

I had misgivings when this post came out about the wisdom of allowing people to ask anonymous questions in this way, but didn't have time to reflect on what was causing those misgivings. I asked Reine if it was "fair" and she essentially replied that it was necessary for the GG. That's a different adjective. I don't think, GG, you have asked the question you need the answer to. I think you are hurting, scared and angry and I'm really worried that our replies here won't soothe, reassure or calm you.

Me:

I label this side of me Rachel to help me understand and describe it but I feel both the man and the woman inside of me at all times. To me, we are both the same person, coexisting. I dress because when I do, the woman inside of me leaps for joy at being free to express herself in my behaviour after so many decades of neglect and suppression. Simultaneously the man inside me celebrates release from having to keep up the preposterous pantomime of masculinity. The answer to all your questions is, no I do not have the temerity to think I can understand what it means to "be a woman" in the way you mean it, but that is only one of several ways to mean it. Yes some discussions on here are very puerile but it won't help you to judge us, nor your partner, by the frivolous banter of anonymised alter egos seeking psychological release from the strain of lying to the world about who we are inside.

I genuinely hope you resolve whatever issue caused you to want to ask this question. Best wishes, anonymous GG.

drushin703

11-29-2011, 03:38 PM

I thought it was just fantasy. Isnt it? This dressing in womens cloths thing. Just make believe.Our ts sisters might not agree but even they cannot enter
the world of established beliefs and traditions of female orthodoxy.When I was a young boy sneaking into moms girdle drawer it was pure pleasure, anonymous
and alone, guilt and fear.I am still guilty and afraid but now with money and privacy, I think some of my most unrealistic desires ARE attainable (thanks
Eluuzion).

I tried and tried to find a Dallas cowboys cheerleading outfit and finally, eventhough two sizes too small, I got one.And I danced around my room and
sang and cheered until my matching white boots cut off the circulation to my big toes.So I spent the rest of that evening soaking my feet in Epson salt
and cursing the moon..........gg baby, its just dress up.......dana

Marleena

11-29-2011, 03:39 PM

I've read the OP's original questions a couple of times. I still see it as condascending to CDers. Maybe it's the way it's worded.

It isn't a slumber party, it's CD girls just having fun and posting thoughts. How can a genetic male know what it feels like to be a real genetic woman? Grass greener on the other side? Bad question I think. Imitating women, no for the most part. Just doing our thing.

It's like how dare you play around and pretend to be a woman. You think it's easy being a woman?

DinaMature

11-29-2011, 03:39 PM

I'll push aside what I perceive as thinly veiled hostility in your questions and try to offer a worthy response.

As others have posted, I was raised in a very female dominated household and family. I've been a party to wage and job disparity, the complications of reproduction - legitimate and otherwise - and I seen women accomplish physical tasks most might think they couldn't accomplish. I'll put my (Large) nose out there and say I think I have as good an idea what it's like to be a woman as any MAN really can.

I've also been immersed in the style and creativity of the woman's life while being excluded from being wholly involved. I have my perception of the good life a woman could make for herself if she'd only make the effort.

Speaking for myself, I ignore the "panty color", "magic potion", and "make a wish" threads. I find them pretty silly and demeaning. As others have said, those aren't conversations women share, as a rule.

I would suggest you read the threads in the beauty club and wardrobe forums.... I think you'll get a more level headed read of how more of us think. The main forum sees a lot of the same issues resurface. Three years ago, I was new here and put my posts in there: Why am I/We here, I told my SO, Thanks for the support. All these issues get aired out over and over as more citizens join our community. We are all individuals with unique stories but we also have common issues and struggles.

Would I change my sex and become a women? Nope... I have it better on planet Earth, being a male. Would I grow breasts that are strictly cosmetic but stay male... I would, yeah.
Personally, I have no kids and have desire to have any part of them. My nurturing goes into gardening, the way I feel about my friends and how I treat my SO.

We aren't peas from one big pod. We are all our own flavor and any generality is misleading.

Don't know that I"ve helped but I've tossed my two bits into the kitty.

ciao

Nicole Marie

11-29-2011, 03:47 PM

Dear Anonymous GG, After 3+ years of gender therapy, I've finally figured out who and what I am. For me, it isn't about knowing what it takes to be a woman. I had to understand what it takes to be "me" in a healthy and comfortable manner. Yes, that involves dressing and presenting myself in a way that society considers to be feminine. It also involves going out in a straight, social setting so I can interact with others. Does that make me a woman? No. However, there are many things I do at home that some would consider "womanly"--cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Do those activities make me a woman? No. As the title says, it's about being yourself. Others may see things differently but I can only tell you how I feel.

Dana7

11-29-2011, 03:50 PM

I don't know whether I can speak for other CDers but for me, crossdressing is about feeling feminine. There is a certain joy in feeling feminine, and it goes beyond just the feel and fit of the fabrics or the look of the outfits, although it certainly includes that. I get all five senses involved too.

The look, smell, taste, feel, and even the sound of feminine things to include clothing, hair, forms, perfume, shoes, and accessories all combine to produce a general feeling of femininity. Like a glass of fine wine, femininity can be savored and enjoyed with all the senses. For instance, have you noticed how uniquely feminine the sound of high heels make when walking on tile? Or how sensual lipstick tastes when you put it on your lips? And I absolutely love the smell when I wear perfume. It makes me feel pretty! And feeling pretty is uniquely feminine.

Admittedly, for us CDers, crossdressing is by necessity primarily an external thing. For us to do more would make us TS. And it is very likely that most of us are quite happy with our man side. But because we enjoy feeling feminine, we do as much as we can practically do to feel that feminine joy without permanently altering ourselves. Yet many of us who start out as CDers do transition into full-time feminine mode and that is where CDing becomes TS.

Is it fair that only women get to experience the joy of feeling feminine? Women certainly do feel the joy of feeling masculine in our society!

One thing a woman can do that a man cannot ordinarily do is feel pretty. And often, for men, the cost of feeling feminine is quite high, resulting from judgmental attitudes of others to feelings of guilt and shame put on us by our families, friends and society. Yet for women, it is considered quite socially acceptable for them to enjoy feeling masculine, although that has not always been the case.

See my post: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?163472-Where-have-all-the-dresses-gone.&p=2653761&highlight=#post2653761

You ask us who crossdress if we know what it "takes to be a woman". We certainly do! As CDers we all know about what women go through with their periods, their moods, their hormones and their difficulties being women. We do sympathize. Without exception we all have women in our lives. Are we trying to be a woman? Usually not. If that were the case then we would be TS.

And although we may not know what it is like to carry a baby or what it is to actually be a woman, we are quite able to use our imaginations to empathize with women. Indeed, it is our imaginations that allow us to more fully empathize with what women go through in their lives. And it doesn't take imagination for us to know what it is like when they work so hard to make themselves beautiful for men. Admittedly, we do enjoy imagining what it feels like to actually be a woman when we crossdress. That is part of the joy of femininity.

If we fully desired to be a woman, then theoretically when we crossdressed we would cease being men and we would be fully women, we would suddenly be attracted to men, our entire psyche would become female and we would require the hormones, etc. But that is usually not our goal. Our goal is the same as women's goals are when they become tomboys. Like these tomboy women who want to feel the fun part of feeling what the opposite sex feels when they revel in their masculinity, we too when we crossdress want to revel in the feeling of what the opposite sex feels when she revels in her femininity.

And here is where I think that many women are hypocritical about CDers. Very often our women complain about our crossdressing but think nothing about a woman who wears male clothing, who works in a male-dominated profession or who emulates masculine traits. It is much more accepted in our society for women to express masculinity than it is for males to exhibit femininity. But I don't think that's really fair to those of us born male who love to feel feminine just as much as women like to be tomboys or do guy things.

I'd like to turn the tables on this anonymous GG. Do you ever wear pants? It has not always been acceptable for women to do so commonly. See my post:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?163472-Where-have-all-the-dresses-gone.

To the GG that initiated this discussion: Do you like to dress like a tomboy from time to time? Do you like to kick back and hang out with the guys and feel like "one of the boys"?? That is the equivalent of crossdressing in my mind.

It strikes me that the attitude of the woman posing this anonymous question is a bit jaded. She seems like she has a chip on her shoulder, and that she is complaining because she thinks that we as crossdressers are shallow people who are concerned only with externalities and that somehow we are out of touch with reality. But that is not the case at all. We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows.

I could go on, but don't have the time right now. Suffice to say that there are many complex aspects about crossdressing that I have not touched on here but will in later posts.

And I love feeling feminine. :battingeyelashes:

heidi99

11-29-2011, 04:03 PM

"To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

Dear Unnamed GG:

OK, What are your issues? Have you been harmed or offended by a crossdresser? Have you discorvered that a close friend, family member, boy friend, or spouse is in fact a crossdresser and you don't understand why?

I do not think that you were completely honest in your request because you did not explain your personal issues. As such, any answer that we give will fall short of what you are looking for - that being - understanding. As I read the questions - multiple times, I do not think that acceptance of crossdressing is in your makeup.

Perhaps, a little more background as to why the questions were asked will allow us to give you the understanding you are seeking even if acceptance is not possible.

As for grass being greener on the other side - yes it is greener - and red - and pink - and purple - and every other color of the rainbow that isn't available for males simply because some silly rule says that men can't wear bright colors.

Carol Elizabeth

I pretty much agree with Carol Elizabeth. It sounds like you are getting locked and loaded for a duel to end someone's crossdressing.

Many very bright and eloquent responses have been submitted on this topic. It is definitely true that crossdressing fills many different needs for different people. I do think I have a mixture of female and male in me, and that by indulging my female side and acknowledging and accepting that part of myself, I'm more likely to be able to acknowledge and accept a greater variety of people.

tiffanyjo89

11-29-2011, 04:12 PM

I'm a guy...in my life everyone knows me as a guy...I have a tendency to let my facial hair grow...I have a penis and balls. I live life as a guy, I have a desire to get married to a woman, have kids, and be the typical guy when it comes to that regard.

I know it takes more than a vagina and breasts to make one a woman. I also know it takes more than having sex with guys and putting on makeup and wearing heels [which I don't, by the way, I am too much of a klutz sometimes to even think of trying to support my body on two little nubs].

That being said, I like the way women's clothing feels. I have spent the day in women's jeans, tights and panties...I know that tights can be slightly uncomfortable, same with bras. I have no desire to actually spend life as a woman. I don't want to have to deal with periods or pregnancy or other problems women have. That being said, I am not like most guys. I know that women have a tough life when it comes to having to deal with physical issues.

Now onto my crossdressing, it's not about creating a new identity, or about escapism, or about wanting to be a woman...it's about the way the clothes feel and about how I feel when wearing them. I would love to be able to be accepted as a straight guy but spend the day in a cute skirt with cute shoes and a nice shirt on...but I know the chances of that are kinda slim, so if I was to go out dressed in women's clothing, my only option would be to try and present as a woman...something where what I'm wearing "fits" the way I'm presenting. Some call it being a woman, some call it blending in, playing the part so to speak, some call it being a sick perverted [word that begins with F and rhymes with bag]. I know I'll never be a woman and I know I'm not gay nor have any desires to be involved with a man regardless of how I'm dressed. That leaves only one option is to blend. To act like I am, and have always been, a woman when I am out if I am dressed in women's clothing.

I don't want to be a woman, and am aware that just because I shave my body, put on makeup, stuff a bra and hide my penis, I am not the same as a woman. I also know that if I was to have my body surgically and hormonally altered such as having or growing breasts and having my penis turned inside my body to look like a vagina, I still will not be a woman. I just like wearing cute clothing occasionally, but am aware that guys wearing cutesy clothing isn't really accepted, and that if I was to have any hope of being accepted as just another person in society, not someone trying to seek attention, that if I was wearing a skirt or a top that typically looks feminine I'll have to fully play the part.

[The previous was not meant to be conclusive of all crossdressers. This is merely my own attempt at explaining how I feel about myself.]

Cheryl T

11-29-2011, 04:24 PM

The truth is that I don't feel any one of us can substantially define what it is to be a woman or a man. Philosophers have danced that dance for hundreds of years and they can't agree, so how are we to have the definitive answer?

We are on a sliding scale. Some of us are fetishists and fixate on one particular item of clothing, others enjoy the entire scenario of dressing and garnish either physical or emotional pleasure, release, satisfaction, all of the above from the experience. Some use this as an escape from the "reality" of the pressures of being a man. Some are on a journey of self-discovery and know only that this form of expression allows them to reach deep and touch something inside them that they cannot otherwise explore. Some began with the clothing only to find that they are meant to be something other than the being they were born as and must pursue that goal.

Is the Grass Greener?? It's almost always greener. We are greedy by nature. We all want more than what we have and what we see beyond the fence beckons us somehow. It may not be greener, but it may appear to be for some. Some are content not to climb the fence while others see it as a hurdle to be jumped.

Now that the philosophy lesson is over....perhaps a more direct and specific question would be best if we are to provide true insight into what motivates us. We are all individuals with individual needs. A general discussion can be useful, but specificity would provide more insight.

Sarasometimes

11-29-2011, 04:28 PM

For me, crossdressing is the way I need to express my feminine side. I am also only attracted to women and I'm married with 2 children (they don't know about Sara). I give GG's a lot of "credit" for finding males attractive, I don't see it. I believe that gender expression is a sliding scale. Some GG's are very feminine. They only do feminine things and dress as such. There are masculine acting GG's too, who wear boyfrined jeans or shop the men's department and do manly activities and where little or no makeup and never a dress. These two GG's are both strictly heterosexual. Sexual attraction is seperate from gender expression. My gender identity is male (I don't wish to change my anatomy and I'm heterosexual). For me I feel great when I present as a female! I am less stressed and more patient. Most times I present as a male and I also feel right and do some very macho type activities and job.
I hope you can see where we are coming from. Please rememberthe gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation are seperate and they can be found in any combination. You mention that there are many people you admire but none you wish to be. I think if you look a little further inside you may find that you do desire to emulate some of their traits and mannerisms. Women have great latitude in crossing the gender identity line. Sure they will meet some resistance but other GG's will most often support them. Males wishing to do feminine/female things are most often looked down upon. I think this is where some think the grass is greener, I don't agree becuase there are other challenges for women that even the field. Lower wages for one.

Kathy Smith

11-29-2011, 05:02 PM

"To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

Ah, someone whom I don't think has twigged what a typical cross-dresser is! ;-)
I can obviously only answer for myself, but here goes:

No, I have very little idea about what it takes to be a woman. It isn't really something that I find important as I don't want to be one anyway. That isn't the aim. I may want to look and even act feminine to some extent, but that isn't the same thing at all. It would be better to consider me to be an actor. The costume and the performance should be as good as I can make them, but I don't want to be Captain Hook! It isn't really about "imitating women", more about "acting the part in a style that we fondly imagine to be feminine". Even if it's wrong, it's still fun!

The point about "embrace being a female" is interesting. I suspect that there may be misunderstanding here on both sides. It's quite possible for a CD to "embrace being a female" to a sufficient degree to satisfy Him/Herself without needing to really absorb everything about being female. The mind is a wonderous instrument and can easily fill in any gaps and make the world rather pretty through it's rose-coloured filters! It has to work like that. We are CD, not TS. We aren't chemically equipped for it to be any other way. It's a nice trick of self-delusion that keeps us happy. On the other hand, a TS will "embrace being female" in a different sense altogether as H/She doesn't have a true male viewpoint and wants to be female, pretending isn't sufficient.

I have to agree that some of the threads appear to be "girls dorm" style, but that's because of what we are - men playing at being female (men are always playing at something - we can't help it). That's probably going to earn me some flack, but there's a lot of truth in it. It's important to remember though, that even if this is "playing" it's not our choice to play the game in the first place.

I don't really think any of us really care about the grass on the other side. We don't want to go there anyway. Just looking over the wall is sufficient. :-)

Lorileah

11-29-2011, 06:20 PM

NO, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. I am not even sure what it takes to be a human.

This isn't meant to be rude in any manner. One time I told an AfroAmerican friend "I know how you feel" and his reply was "No, you will never know how I feel. You only know how you THINK I feel." This is true for many things. And I do understand why the GG asked that question. I also agree that many here believe that magic and fairy dust will make you what you are not. I just put it off to ignorance on their part. How many times have we heard that "If only I was female the world would be abetter place...all would be sunshine and lollipops."? It is common for people to want something. I know I want things that will never be but that doesn't stop me from wishing.

So, technically what it takes to be a female is XX chromosomes (or at least two X chromosomes combined with maybe a Y). The ability and body parts to conceive and bear children. To be a woman would be a more mental thing. And it is based in social function of where you are. When people here say that they want to be "female" or "feminine" they are just putting their own values on what they believe they should have. Does that make sense? they can no more be a woman than they can be a dolphin. They are saying they want to appear as much as they believe they can.

Alberta_Pat

11-29-2011, 07:35 PM

This thread has been open for less than 24 hours now.

Many people have responded from the heart to answer the questions in the opening post.

I do hope that the O/P will take the time to respond in the same manner. I would like very much to understand how this question and the answers have affected the O/P.

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

IMkrystal

11-29-2011, 08:22 PM

This thread has been open for less than 24 hours now.

Many people have responded from the heart to answer the questions in the opening post.

As long as the CD stereotype prevails most women will never know "OUR SECRET" We do not talk with women and women who know do not talk with women who don't. Go figure? :brolleyes:

LaurenB

11-29-2011, 08:52 PM

Thanks ReineD for posting this thread. Now answer honestly: are you the anonymous GG? Just kidding, geez! But seriously, the responses here are some of the most thought provoking I've read in a while. Although the original question was, as someone said "rhetorical" in nature, it forced some serious discussion. Thanks again. Always trying to get to the bottom of why we/I CD. Tear in my eye. LB

Marleena

11-29-2011, 09:01 PM

Can somebody translate Eluuzion's answer for me? Lol..:bonk:

ReineD

11-29-2011, 09:38 PM

Thanks ReineD for posting this thread. Now answer honestly: are you the anonymous GG?

Nope, I'm just the messenger here.

My SO and I don't have any issues with the CDing. She dresses at will and goes out alone or with me. We're completely open with it. But, that's because it is a second relationship for us both, and he did tell me at the very beginning. I did not begin a life with him, have kids, and find out years afterwards there were a few crucial things he had not disclosed about himself. And I do feel secure that my SO loves me and wants to be with me, even while he is dressed.

But I've got to say, that even in my case in the beginning there were times when I felt insecure because I thought he wanted to be with other men, other TGs, or other GGs. Like it or not, there IS something about the CDing and the type of reaching out to others that some CDs engage in, that make it seem to the wife or girlfriend as if the CD feels his SO isn't enough for him. It takes time to understand that a CD is not motivated the same way necessarily as a non-CD. :p

April_Ligeia

11-29-2011, 10:40 PM

To the anonymous GG: Some women like to wear makeup and dresses, and some women do not wear makeup and prefer to wear jeans and t-shirts. The same is true of men. I like to dress up and wear makeup, just like some women do. That's it. After many years of thinking about and talking about crossdressing, I have finally realized that it really is that simple. Just my take on this issue, I hope it helps.

ReineD

11-30-2011, 12:23 AM

I don't think, GG, you have asked the question you need the answer to. I think you are hurting, scared and angry and I'm really worried that our replies here won't soothe, reassure or calm you.

...

I genuinely hope you resolve whatever issue caused you to want to ask this question. Best wishes, Anonymous GG.

Rachel, I think you are very sweet. :hugs:

sandra-leigh

11-30-2011, 01:01 AM

I have been in gender therapy for over 2 years. Do I "know what it takes to be a woman" ? No. Everything I have raised in therapy as evidence that I am perhaps not a woman, my therapist has pointed out to me the extremely wide range of "woman", and told me not to measure myself against arbitrary standards and to instead concentrate on how I want to live.

What I do know from experience, and from watching others, is what it takes to be a "man". And I am not there, and I am not comfortable in being a "man".

Is there only "man" and "woman" ? Is a person necessarily one or the other? As far as I am concerned, the answer is NO, that a person can be a mix of male and female. That is the state I live my life these last several years.

eluuzion

11-30-2011, 01:51 AM

Can somebody translate Eluuzion's answer for me? Lol..:bonk:

Hiya Marleena,
Most of the people who know me well, know better than to try and unravel some of the things I talk about. Sometimes it is best to just smile, stand really still, and wait until I wander away. Whatever you do…don’t run!:heehee:

Maybe this translation will help…

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we need to look at the word itself.
“Mankind“…Basically, it is made up of two separate words…“mank” and “ind”.
What do these two words mean? It’s a mystery, and that’s why so is mankind.

Ok, seriously…I can never be serious…:battingeyelashes:

there...all better!

:hugs:
:love:

Eryn

11-30-2011, 01:52 AM

To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman.

I'm the first to admit that I have little understanding of what it "takes" to be a woman. It's a much deeper and complex thing that I am capable of fully understanding. I can perceive bits and pieces through the media and by direct observation, but to comprehend the entire picture? No way!

OTOH, at least I am making an attempt to gain some understanding of the opposite gender, something in which most GMs and GGs aren't really interested

It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Yes it is. Read a copy of Vogue or participate on one of the GG makeup forums and you'll get exactly the same feeling. Like GGs we CDers have both serious and frivolous sides. We put a lot of attention and effort into CDing and for that we should have a bit of fun.

OTOH, we also spend time on threads where we agonize over how to preserve relationships between CDers and their wives, how to understand and come to grips with ourselves, how to deal with discrimination, and even how to deal with having a friend take her own life. It isn't all panty colors and nail polish.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

CDers admire women and, even though we probably don't have a chance of truly understanding them, we do want to understand and enjoy at least the visual and tactile expression that they enjoy. When I dress, for a short time I can be truly creative about my appearance. I can put together interesting combinations of clothing. I can enjoy the various textures of fabrics that are normally forbidden to me.

Now, beyond that, how can I truly acquire an understanding of what it is to be a woman? I cannot pass close scrutiny of GGs, so any interaction with female social groups is severely restricted. Mainstream GGs aren't exactly thrilled by the prospect of admitting CDers to their social circles. the only meaningful interaction I have is with other CDers and a few accepting GGs

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

No, but I do appreciate visiting a well-maintained garden now and then, even if I cannot stay there.

Blue42

11-30-2011, 02:37 AM

Like some others have said, I don't think I ever had intentions or desires to be a woman. I'm glad I'm a man. That said I find some women's clothing to be a huge stress relief and feel simply awesome. And honestly, I don't think I could deal with being a woman for any number of reasons.

Even though I'm extremely fresh in terms of understanding it all I've learned this much: Like any group that has a common interest, there is an unmeasurable amount of variance between the whys, the extremes, and the interest level. For myself personally, I could probably best explain myself in a way others would treat a certain sport or others would treat smoking.

Sometimes I just feel the need to put on a pair of pantyhose and heels and after I get my fix I feel centered and stress free.

faltenrock

11-30-2011, 03:15 AM

I started as CD at the age of about 12-13, wearing my sisters pleated skirts and panty hoses.
The question "I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman." is asked the wrong way. Be all were raised as boys to become a strong male, husband, father, worker or whatever. To me it's impossible to answer with YES, because I'm a man. I love to dress and enjoy going out to live that part of my personality. It gives me relieve of a stressful life. Initially, now at 50, I think a terrible accident and trauma caused my habit to crossdress. Perhaps, after some permanent damage to body with scars, I wanted to be beautiful and adorable - for myself. That was to be able to accept my new being and situation after the trauma.
I can't imagine what it needs to be a female, I would need to be born again as female to know. I don't want to imitate a female, I mostly wear clothes, what I'ld like to see on women, because women are the most beautiful part of this world. being dressed takes away my fears, pain and thoughts - almost like a drug.
After several years or decades, I accepted the CD part of me and try to make the best of it. I don't want to be female, I feel happy a as male, father and husband. My wife tolerates but would give a lot if I could stop being a CD - which is not possible and not even desired from my part.
When I'm out & about, I try behave differently, a female could probably see the difference between my male life and my life en femme. I'm calmer, relaxed and move differently en femme. I'm not as communicative as I'm as a male, perhaps I behave much like a woman - I just don't know. I do know, that after changing back to being the male I am, I don't incoporate any of my behaviour when en femme in my daily life.
I don't think any of my close male friends or even female friends would really believe if I told them I'm a CD.
When en femme, I'm totally dressed from bottom to top, including underwear. Wearing skirts makes me feel true freedom, of course, just like any CD, I love to see myself in the mirror or in any kind of reflection when out in public - that's part of the whole experience.

Tanya C

11-30-2011, 04:30 AM

I'm bigender, meaning that I have a blend of both male and female personality traits. It's difficult for me to know if I possess the full complement of both gender's traits considering that I've never been all male, nor have I been all female. So, I guess I would have to say that I at least partially understand what it takes to be a woman.

Regarding your observation about posts involving panties and the like, well I must confess that I don't really care for them either and I tend to pass them by. Personally, I prefer threads about crossdressers and their relationships with loved ones, especially spouses. I particularily enjoy happy endings. (and beginnings too)

With respect to dressing as somone I admire, it's actually more like dressing as someone that I am.

Also, I have never believed in the greener grass theory, of any sort. I suppose that is one of the reasons that I've been married to the same woman for over 36 years, because from where I sit the grass is plenty green.

You know dear, I understand that you may not exactly be thrilled with crossdressing. After all, it is a pretty unusual practice, but the fact that you are willing to learn about it bespeaks a level of caring within you that I hope will help you gain a better understnding of crossdressing and how harmless it really is.

Good luck,

Tanya

Jessica86

11-30-2011, 04:50 AM

Here is one thing that hasn't been brought up. Something most GGs don't understand about dressing. There is not a straight forward answer to this question. There is not a uniform response, because there is not a uniform reason why we all dress. In fact, I would say there are different categories of dressers. There are those like me who have done this all of their life, with no desire to transistion, and do this because I was raised this way. There are others who do this as a fetish/fantasy type thing, where sexual satisfaction is their desire. There are others who feel trapped, scared, and feel as if they should have been a woman in the first place. It is all different.

I am with the aggressive posters on this one, who say you obviously have more to the story than what was told. The way this question was written clearly shows your bias and belief crossdressing is just wrong. I, and I'm sure many others on here, would like to know why that bias is there. On a side note, I am not like many others who will put women in general on a pedestal. Sure, you can say we will never achieve being a woman. That's the same as saying "you don't have what it takes to be a woman." That's the way you feel. The way I feel, you don't have what it takes to be a man. It's a silly thing to say. It seems you have fallen into the stereotypical view of a crossdresser. We all want to get a sex change, get double D implants, strut our stuff on every street corner in pink latex skirts, and we are all homosexual. I want you to see this isn't the case, but a stereotype. Try to understand why I can not answer your question. Of those on here, there can be hundreds if not thousands of reasons why someone would dress. Different limits. Different sexual orientation. Different everything! Some might think they will reach the point one day where they know what its like to be a woman. Others, like me, don't want to simply because we have no desire to.

Claire Cook

11-30-2011, 07:28 AM

Another really thoughtful thread – Reine, thanks for re-starting it. As with other threads dealing with “why we do it”, there are all sorts of reasons and we’re seeing this here. My own feeling aligns with Gabi, Kimdl, IamSara and Sally24. It took me more than 40 years to realize that I had gender ID issues that started way back. I’m not trying to imitate women – I am me. For whatever reason, I’m more comfortable when I am dressed, I am more able to express emotions and seem to relate to people more. These last two emotional things are becoming part of me no matter what I am wearing. Is it about body parts? For me, only in the sense that wearing forms make me feel more complete (and of course look better!). Is it physical? Sure – I love the feel of women’s clothes!

TGMarla

11-30-2011, 09:26 AM

There were times in my life that I very much wanted to be a woman. And there have been many times that I'd wished I had just been born that way so that the gender dysphoria that I've experienced for much of my life would not be there. But over the years, I've come to the conclusion that transition is simply not for me. I'm a guy, and a guy I will remain, and that's not such a bad thing.

But here's the rub: I love wearing skirts and dresses. I love wearing hosiery and high heels. I love the long, pretty hair, the jewelry, the makeup, the nice fingernails. I even like "having" breasts. As a man, all of this is denied to me, both physically and socially. So I crossdress in order to come as close as I can to actually being a woman and taking the time to enjoy all of this, if even for a few hours at a time. Sure, I know that pretty clothes and stuff is not what womanhood is all about. But I don't really have to worry about that, do I? For me, that is what it's all about, and it doesn't have to get more complicated than that.

I still think at times that I'd rather have been born female. So in addressing your "grass is greener" statement, let me say that to me, it's a moot point. I know some here whine about it a bit, but I'm way past that by now. I may not know "what it takes" to be a woman, but had I been born that way, it wouldn't matter one bit. I hear women often say, if even in jest, that men would not be able to handle being a woman. And that's a load of crap, since but for a flip of a coin, a genetic crapshoot, any one of us would have been female instead, and would have lived our lives that way instead. I don't hear these same women telling other women that they can't handle being a woman. One just learns to handle being who one is, and that's really all there is to it. And any man could say the very same thing to a woman. Being a man is a whole lot more than just being able to pee standing up. So I think all of us, both genders, can drop the whole argument that we couldn't handle or understand what it means to be a woman or a man. My answer to either side is, "Yes, I could. Easily."

So let me bottom-line this for you. I dress now because I like to. I enjoy female emulation. And when I emulate women, I like to do so when they are all dressed up to the nines. I enjoy it. I may not fool everyone all the time when I do it, but I no longer really care about that. It allows me to experience things from a feminine perspective, and in that light, allows me to see the world from a broader point of view, rather than an only male or female perspective. And while over the years, women have drifted into the male arena, insisting that they are still feminine, they still often frown upon men who crossdress, and view them as something less than men, decrying that this is their arena, and that we have no business there. This is the double standard that is often referred to here. So no, I'm not claiming that I know "what it takes to be a woman", but then, I don't really care about that either.

Rogina B

11-30-2011, 09:38 AM

Here is my shallow but honest answer. I'll take all the good and leave the bad of playing the female role.I feel that I have used up all my "boy fun tickets",so I'll try to use the rest of my "girl fun tickets"up before I get too old. It is the "power of the Pussycat" that intriques me..Women don't need men the same way men need women.They have an unspoken "power" over boys. Rogina is as close as I can get to having that power. I can't be a woman because I was born a man and at best have mixed instincts and traits. So, I will live my life in my own way and spend as much time as possible in Rogina's personna.This is what makes me happiest,and another birthday has passed. I'll play the girl.

suchacutie

11-30-2011, 12:04 PM

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman

To me, this is the crux of the issue. When Tina first appeared in August of 2005, she knew almost nothing about being a woman. Heck, she didn't even know she existed for more than a few days! However, once it was clear that there was a feminine spark, the investigation was moved to full-speed ahead.

Luckily Tina and I have a full-time mentor in these matters, my wife! For the last 6 years we have explored and discussed every aspect of femininity and what it's like to be a woman, including what it's like to grow up as a girl! These conversations continue to this day and although new topics arise less often, they still do come up and every topic is fascinating. Obviously we talked about all the "trappings" of being a woman so that Tina could emerge from our imaginations into a real person who could then experience the world from a feminine point of view. There was the topic of language and voice and how communication changes when you don't have the "basso" part of the voice to bring to bear, effecting both the use of words and the choice of words along with inflections and pitch. Then there was all the psychological and sociological issues that, as a man, I had never experienced or even knew existed. The simplest was probably not trying to "solve" every point of a discussion, but just discuss and even bi*ch a little without solving the problem. Seeing the world from a feminine perspective, and the differences in socialization when growing up as one gender or the other provoke fascinating and very informative discussions.

With all that said, it then came down to letting Tina "loose" to find out who she is. It's one thing to talk about issues and quite another to experience life from a feminine point of view. This is the adventure that brings it all into focus, and will be ongoing forever.

So, do I know what it takes to be a woman? I'll never know perfectly, but the more I work at it the better I begin to understand (so my wife tells me). It's a lifetime journey and I'm delighted to have taken as many steps along that journey as I already have, and I'm very much looking forward to more and more steps!

Marissa333

11-30-2011, 12:11 PM

There are 4 pages of responses to this thread now. I don't suppose the anonymous gg could now respond with her thoughts, and possibly a brief description on her situation which led to asking this question?

ReineD

11-30-2011, 12:18 PM

Rachel Flowers

11-30-2011, 05:06 PM

She's working on it. :)

That'll be good; set some minds at rest!

Georgina

11-30-2011, 07:36 PM

I wear skirts and dresses because I love the clothes and underwear. I do not want to be a woman and anyway how can I be. I realise that the feelings that I get, from wearing these clothes, will not be the same as women get from wearing the same clothes. I don't believe that women should have any more clothing choices than men and any add ons, such as makeup, wigs, etc. should be available to both.

Asche

11-30-2011, 07:47 PM

Eryn

11-30-2011, 08:04 PM

She's working on it. :)

I'm looking forward to hearing what she has to say. I sense that her question was asked from a position of some distress and I hope that our responses were helpful to her.

TxKimberly

11-30-2011, 08:13 PM

Hmmm . . . you know I have to wonder if I should leave this one alone because my answer can be a bit dark . . .

After my mother and father were divorced, I had to live with my father for a year or so when I was around four years old. My father was a raging alcoholic and every once in a while he liked to come home reeking of alcohol and beat my step mother to a bleeding a pulp. One day when he slammed in the front door, she hid my step sister and I under the dinning room table and did her best to protect us even as she was beaten so bad she couldn't open her eyes.
Yes, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My grandmother and my mother (who was still on crutches from her latest hip and spine operation) storming into my fathers home to rescue me and take me back home with them. My tiny grandmother getting right up in my fathers face and loudly telling him that she absolutely would kill him if he tried to stop us from leaving. My father backed down because he knew way down deep that my grandmother wasn't kidding or exaggerating.
Yep, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My mother and grandmother both working as waitresses and as a hostess long hard hours to make a home for the five of us in a small mobile home. Tiny mobile home, very little in the way of possessions, and yet I look back on it as one of the best times in my life because we all felt safe and loved,and all for the efforts of my grandmother, mother, and even my big sister.
Yep, I have a clue what it really means to be a woman.

My tiny and frail mother buying a tiny one room cabin way to hell and gone out in the mojave desert and turning it into a home for us, someplace that was ours. A woman born and raised in the city of Los Angeles, barely capable of walking, raising children in a one room cabin with no running water, only a fireplace for heat, and for the first six months with no electricity. All of this, because that's what it took to take care of her children with the means that she had.
Yes anonymous, I know what a woman really is and it has very little to do with the clothes. It's really much closer to being a super hero if you ask me . . .

docrobbysherry

11-30-2011, 08:22 PM

She's working on it. :)

Fine! But, after all our posts, do u think she has any clue as to what we r all about? I'm NOT holding my breath!

After Kim's post, I'd just drift off into the nite if I was her! Kim! My gosh you've come a long way haven't u? Truly inspiring, really!

Dana7

11-30-2011, 08:27 PM

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

Asche,

Your commentary here strikes me as openly hostile. It appears that by what you have claimed here that the majority of the responders have missed the boat on the OP's question, but I think you're dead wrong.

The asker of the question made some very clear comments in her original statment and in her followup clarifications, and the CDers here have honestly and candidly attempted to answer her. She asked not for our explanations about whether we think we know "what it is like to be a woman" as you have said here; she asked whether we know what it "takes to be a woman". In order for this woman to understand the motivations and thoughts of those who crossdress, each person has chosen to respond to various comments that the OP made.

Quite obviously no man will EVER know fully what it takes to be a woman. And I think that many of the postings in this thread acknowledge that. But who ever said that CDing was based fully about reality anyways? No CDer here is trying to become a woman. That is for the domain of the TS. And so as a result, CDers by definition are engaging in the realm of fantasy. You interpret this as though it was a despicable act and that it somehow disconnects us from reality. I can assure you, it does not, although it certainly does give us some relief from the hassles and harassments in the real world.

I am sure that every man here can honestly say that they see women, and expecially their SOs for who they are and not for the fantasy they want to have of them. Why you ask? Because the fantasy is NOT about their SO! The fantasy of the CD is about their OWN persona and not the persona of another woman! And further, that fantasy can be as connected or disconnected from the reality of being a woman as the CDer chooses. It is not a matter for judgment by outsiders. It is a personal, individual expression that is modeled after the beauty that is seen in womanhood by each CDer in an abstract sense. Several of the responders have made it quite clear that their CDing is about their own identity and their own perceptions of womanhood. They have stated that their fantasy is about their own identity, not the identity of women in general or the identity of their SO.

And since each CDer is an individual, their fantasy is individualized. But just because it is a fantasy does not make it invalid. Just because it is created using externals like clothes, jewelry and makeup does not mean it has no meaning to the CDer. And just because an SO dislikes the fantasy does not mean that the CDer thinks less of the SO or of the reality of her womanhood.

I have never seen any CDer ignore or deny the experience of their SO and insist on a version that they prefer. I've not seen a CDer lose connection with reality to the extent that their SO "just kind of disappears" into the CDer's fantasy of who they are. That statement is simply ludicrous.

Asche, you've really gone off and made some broad, negative generalizations about CDers, that we are somehow disconnected from reality. I believe the same about the original comments made by the OP on this thread. I can assure you that we CDers who take refuge in a harmless fantasy from time to time "can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy."

At least for myself, I will answer your question: I can honestly say that I can see women, and especially my SO, for who they are, and not for the fantasy I want to have of them. The reason I can say that is because my fantasy is not about my SO or about any woman in particular. I have chosen to view the best of womanhood and emulate it in myself. The fact that it is a fantasy in no way denigrates my view of women and in no way have I lost touch with reality because of it. I love my SO wholeheartedly, I respect her womanhood in her own right, and I participate actively in her personal growth. As proof of this statement, I invite you to read several of my posts where I describe the particular ways I have participated in her personal growth. And if anything, my activity as a CDer has enriched the quality of her life and has improved the quality of her womanhood and her own personal expression of femininity.

And as I posted previously in this thread, I believe that as CDers, "We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows."

Momarie

11-30-2011, 08:48 PM

Dana7

11-30-2011, 09:33 PM

Asche understood what I think the OP meant with this thread...she understands with heart and soul.
I see you are taking some heat for your post, you don't deserve it.

So do you also think as Asche has inferred, that CDers are losing touch with reality?

Momarie

11-30-2011, 09:48 PM

Dana7

11-30-2011, 10:57 PM

I don't think she or I inferred that at all.
I think she had the empathy to understand what the OP intended with the thread.

Please don't derail the thread, if you have to get mad at me, please do so in a pm.

I am not mad at you at all, Momarie. Neither am I attempting to derail this thread. I was responding to the comment you made indirectly about my post on this thread, i.e. "taking some heat", and asking you a specific question. I asked that question to you on this thread because I feel that Asche inferred by her post that the majority of the responders had missed the meaning of the OP, and I disagreed. In addition, one of the reasons I was giving Asche "heat" was that I feel that Asche was inferring that CDers had lost touch with reality. If you read my post to Asche you can see that. Yet your comments seemed to endorse her position and you seemed to agree with her about that.

I asked you the question on the thread because you made your comment about my posting on the thread, where it properly belongs. And if you had made your comment about Asche's post to me on a PM, then I would have responded in a PM. I have no private beef with you or anyone on this forum and I was attempting to obtain clarification from you; I don't think that a PM was really the place to address it. I think that is completely fair, don't you?

Leyna

11-30-2011, 11:04 PM

Why do I wear a football jersey when I go to a game? Don't I realize how difficult the game is? I'm just sampling the good parts of the team experience, but wimping out on the two-a-days. Well, yes. Yes, I am. And I have no intention of giving birth or spending a lifetime butting my head against a glass ceiling.

But the GG seems to be under the impression that I just DECIDED to like this particular hobby. Believe me, sweetie, if opting out was on the menu, I woulda given this up a long time ago. I know life as a woman ain't all slips and slumber parties. But life as a CD is no day at the beach either.

RADER

11-30-2011, 11:14 PM

I have had the opportunity to enjoy female friendship and support. I am in a position where I need to take care of a disabled spouse (cooking, cleaning, washing). I have a good idea how hard women have it. I have experienced gender discriination on a small scale in virtual worlds. I do not think the grass is greener, but I am happier doing the things I do. A. night with the boys in a sports bar holds no interest for me.

I am in a similar situation; Wife is both handicapped and starting of dementia.
I do it all, cooking, cleaning, laundry, Pills and other Med's, Everything.
I love her and I know that she would do the same for me if the roles where
reversed. Your correct in that being a Woman is not all sunshine and Roses.
But just being able to wear special clothes from time to time is a treat for me.
It is not trying to become a woman, That will never happen, but I can have my
moment in time as it where.
Rader

BobbieCrescent

12-01-2011, 12:45 AM

To anonymous:

"I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman."

Most likely, not any more than any of us know what it takes to 'be a man'. We're just being (or trying to be) ourselves. I certainly can say i can't and will never know what genetic women go through in their life.

"It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts."

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but yeah. i know. Honestly, i don't think anyone is saying it *is*. Perhaps they're saying that CDing or the CDing fantasy for some is just about clothing, shoes, makeup and female parts. Maybe.

"I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums."

Those sorts of threads honestly irritate me too, but for some people it *is* very physical and i'm not sure there's entirely anything wrong with that. As for the 'slumber party' aspect.... yay slumber parties? the community aspect is certainly a part, if not a large part, of why people stick around in places like this, not to mention if people have had to deal with ostracism most of their lives, finally finding a place they feel comfortable and safe is really, really nice.

"Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc."

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Imitating the people you admire is an incredibly common human trait.

"On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

To close it out, honesty. I'm not sure if any others feel this same way, but for me, i had very few friends growing up, and all i ever saw were groups of girls. I could never find the girl that was as lonely as me. So yeah. I thought for a long time that the grass was greener on the other side. I can't say that i don't still, just a little. It would certainly be easier to look cute in a dress if i was as tall and relatively skinny as i am now, only female.

ReineD

12-01-2011, 12:48 AM

Hey everyone, I received this response tonight:

I have read everyone's responses and quite a few I don't think quite understood what I was trying to ask. I can't type too much right now, I'm on my phone, but when I get to my laptop tomorrow I will write more and explain myself a bit. But thank you to all who have taken the time to reply so far.

Julie Hall

12-01-2011, 01:03 AM

I have been considering this thread for a couple of days. Do I know what it takes to be a woman? No, but then again I have the same knowledge of being a man. I know how to be me, although I can surprise myself from time to time. Does dressing make me feel like a woman? No, but it gives me comfort and a small bit of fleeting happiness. Happy moments are too few and far between as far as I am concerned to be ignored or shut away.

I don't know if this will add anything to the discussion or not, but I hope you can find what you are looking for.

BonnieSue

12-01-2011, 02:00 AM

I will never know what it really like to be a woman, only those born a woman will. Women are always under a man , what I mean by that is just the way things are in this world. Overseas a man can kill his wife if she upsets him. Here in the States a moslum(sp) killed his daughter because she dishonored him and his family in his eye's. My wife has had six children and I was there to watch the hell she went through bring them into this world and many women have said that if men had to have the babies there would not be any. I agree with that. Many women are beat up by their husbands or boy friends, raped or killed every day only because a man wants to. No we cannot know what it is like to be a true woman but that does not stop us who love what a woman is and what to be as close to what you are any less. As a little boy growing up I always hear the saying that little girls are made of everything nice and etc. and that still goes. A person can change his or her sex but they will never really be the other sex but that will never stop us of wanting what we cannot have. Even in heaven there is not supposed to be men and women but a spirit. That is as close as we will ever get to being what our heart desires. We will keep trying our best and because of that maybe man will care a little more for the women in their life and the woman will understand that we CS just want to be a like them as we can be in this life. You only live once. Live it to the fullest.

BonnieSue

12-01-2011, 02:24 AM

:). Very Very well SAID I wish I could put it the way you did.

Amy Lynn3

12-01-2011, 11:30 AM

TxKimberly....You and I grew up the same. Your post brought back many memories of my Mom putting me under or behind something, while my Dad knocked the door down and then beat my Mom. We had nothing, but my Mom loved and protected me. I too remember all the bad my father caused, but I remember the woman who gave me all she had and that was her love.

To the OP....whatever you hope to gain from the different answers you get, just remember....we all come from different backgrounds and we all just want to work our way through life. Some take different roads to get there, some wear different cloths, some are female and some are male, but we all have one thing in common...we are all of the human race.

ReineD

12-01-2011, 01:10 PM

....................

Sorry to everyone that it has taken me so long to reply. I dont get on my laptop that often anymore to sit and reply to long posts etc. And on my phone it gets kinda hard cause it would take me about 20yrs =)

Anyways to the point. When I asked my orginal question about if you really knew what it is to be a woman I guess I should of explained it a bit further cause ofcourse I know you guys dont know what its like to deliver children, go through the "monthly" visitor etc.. thats not really what I was trying to get at.. and I know you all cant know how a womans mind really works cause as some of you said you are all men just wanting to wear some clothing that has been marked for females. I get that =) My thought on all this is I understand that some say its just clothes.. they just want to feel and comfort of the clothing (I can understand that) then there are some that extend further and put on a wig and makeup. To me (please remember this is all just from what I see and read on the forums and my own opinion) that takes it a bit more then "just clothes" which again is just fine too.

But then you get into these posts of people posting their panty color (I know some people used that for a example in their reply here) and for the life of me I can never remember a time when I felt it was important for me to share my panty color with my friends online or offline. Maybe when I was 3 and I had wonder woman undies and I thought they were so neat! lol And then the posts asking if you would rather have a vagina or boobs, YET I keep hearing over and over again "oh its just clothes we just want to have the feel and comfort of the clothes we dont want to be women. Yet tons and TONS of posts about wanting womens body parts, trying to do whatever you can to pull off being a woman yet I keep seeing that its nothing more then so it confuses me. (And yes I am sure there are some on the forums that for them its JUST clothes and they dont want anything more then a pair of panties or something like that.

What I am trying to get at is that sometimes its like a over glorification of females and you make it out to be just all panties, pillow fights and makeup. There is more to trying to pull off being a woman. Manners would be a good starting point and not over exposing ones self as in "oh im wearing red lace panties hehehe" True ladies dont go around bragging about that. Respect yourselves more cause what I seem to just read about most of the time is a bunch of men all ages acting like middle school girls. yet you say you would like to get more respect from others etc you can get that by acting more adult with things.. but then again this all is JMO ofcourse and I am sure a lot of ppl will be upset with me for saying some of these things but thats how I feel and I feel this way cause of things that you all post on this forum. And I am pretty sure there are a few others who might feel the same way. This section scared the crap outta me when I first found out about my husband and joined here. Gave me many wrong impressions on what really CDing is all about.

So in the end some took my question to extreme and missed my point and some kinda hit it on the head. Not do you know what it takes to be a woman as in what we deal with in our lives.. but how we act and conduct ourselves our mannerisms. (And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)

Marissa333

12-01-2011, 01:26 PM

Please just know that even though we here are all similar, we are all very different. Just like all humans. Some do love talking about panty colors and what not, and there are a large number of us that don't participate in those threads. Some are bi, gay or strait. Some wear makeup and wigs, and some don't. Some try to act like a woman, and some just like the clothes. So what I am trying to say is you can't look at these threads, and directly relate them to your SO. The only way to know what level of commitment your SO is at, is to have an open dialogue with your SO.

As far as the juvenile discussion are concerned, one of the girls posted here that a lot of us are new to this, and our brains treat it like we are young girls discovering what it is to be a girl for the first time. Which directly relates to your comment about only shareing what type of panties you are wearing if you were 3 and had wonder woman panties. To some of us, we feel like 3 y/o girls wearing wonder woman panties which is why we share it :)

Also keep in mind this. We are not openly excepted in most places, so a lot of times we post things that the majority of the population would never talk about because regardless of the topic, we get support and honest opinions that really help our self esteem most times. And if talking about panty color keeps us girls minds out of really dark places, then I will reply by saying "I think those pink panties were a great choice for that outfit" :)

GeminaRenee

12-01-2011, 01:31 PM

I guess it just depends on the girl! All of us come from varied backgrounds, age groups, socio-economic groups, etc, etc. And all of us have been dressing at different frequencies for varying numbers of years. And then there's just the level of interest: some of us will only ever get excited about wearing frilly panties, while others will want to explore more complex concepts of womanhood. Someone brought up the excellent point that our CD sides haven't necessarily had time to develop in the same way that our male sides have. I can say for me, I might be 32 irl, but my CD is 21, tops. That doesn't just develop overnight. Shoot, when I was 21, I had about 3 pairs of panties, 10 lipsticks, an ugly pair of heels, and no sophistication at all (to say that I'm sophisticated today might be stretch, even, but relatively speaking, hehe...). Sooo, for numerous reasons, you're going to get a wide variety of ages, interests, and attitudes.

I guess the best thing you can take out of this is to not judge your SO by how anyone else in a CD forum acts. To do so is to sell both he and yourself short. Actually, it's a good lesson in life in general: judge others on their own merits, not on the merits of those around them, or those that you might initially lump into that same category. We're all different, more or less.

ReineD

12-01-2011, 01:51 PM

I'll post my two cents now since I haven't so far.

I know there are the tons of girly, tee-hee, slumber party (as you aptly named it) type of posts here. Do these CDers really believe this is what women are all about, or are they just here having fun and blowing off steam, on a break from their lives of being husbands and fathers? Probably both. For some it is just a small aspect of their lives, while others may well have twisted views this is what women are all about. I tend to think for the average CD, this is just what they do on their leisure time. One CDer may well post a thread about dealing with having been seen by a neighbor, and then the next second on a lark may well post he is wearing pink panties in the panty thread because he can do this here and he can't talk about this around the water cooler at work. And, well, men like panties for whole other reasons than we do. :p So they notice them and they like to talk about them.

And then he logs off the forum, and brings his wife's car in to get an oil change, or he mows the lawn. Or he helps with the kids.

But there are also many threads here that deal with the more serious issues of guilt, shame, purging, how to deal with this in marriages and with their families, how to define it for themselves, where is it going or not, is it pink fog, how to maintain balance. Not all the threads are about the frivolous stuff.

And then there are the more practical threads: how to be convincing. How to put on makeup. How to take care of wigs or what is the best way to cover beard shadow. This doesn't mean it is all they think about, just where else can they go to ask these questions and learn?

And then after all the effort of putting themselves together, there are the threads showing off the results, which if they are closeted, this is one of the few places they can do this.

But I agree ... when I first came here, the more mundane or practical type threads, or the struggling type threads totally were outside my radar. I was confused about a lot of things ... there were things my SO wanted to do that I didn't understand (like why on earth would he want a myspace profile, why would he want to post pics, why would he want to meet other people dressed, wasn't I enough, etc), and so every post that hinted at fantasies of having women body parts and wanting men did stand out for me way more than all the others. I became convinced of many things that were not true for him, just based on what I was reading here and this bothered him a lot. I've sorted through it now, but I do undertand what you are going through.

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here. :p

Anyway, I hope the responses you received here helped you. :hugs:

VioletJourney

12-01-2011, 01:52 PM

To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.
We may be males and females, but we're all humans first. Male or female, we all feel love, grapple with finding a purpose, and overcome adversity. If you ask me, we all have a ton in common already, so what's wrong with playing around with some of the superficial differences? Besides, some of us, like myself, aren't trying to "know what it takes to be a woman". We just like to doll up and look pretty, what's the harm in that?

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.
You don't? That's interesting. I imitate people all the time, that's what having heroes is for. My style of dress is often influenced by my musical idols.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...
Certainly. In comparison with female friends of mine, I'm having a much harder time finding dates. Guys seem to flock to girls but it doesn't work the other way around; and girls merely have to choose the right person from the lineup of interested guys.

Dana7

12-01-2011, 02:26 PM

Respect yourselves more cause what I seem to just read about most of the time is a bunch of men all ages acting like middle school girls

Thanks for your clarification. This thread has added a lot to my understanding of myself and my fellow CDers. It is easy to see that there is a wide range of maturity, attitudes, and practices among CDers. Not all want to be women, some want to be fully women, some just do it for a sexual thrill, others for the peace it gives them.

Some of what I sense from you is that you want us to acknowledge that being a woman is much more than just externals. More than just a "slumber party". I also hear in your commentary that women don't want to be thrust on the sidelines by our CD activity when it becomes the object of obsession and we lose recognition of our real relationships with the women in our lives and what their wants and needs are. I do understand what "Pink Fog" can do. I recognize your concerns on these points, they are very valid.

But I think that you should recognize that we human beings can get sidelined by many obsessive behaviors. For every CDer's SO that bemoans the pink fog, there are at least ten sports widows. Here's an excerpt from a website devoted to those neglected women:

"In the U.S. alone, there are well over 62 million sports fans and at least 19 million sports addicts, and they are 92% male, ages 18-54. (See more details in my entry entitled The Definition of a Sports Fan.)

"If you think about it, conservatively, behind these sports fans at least half -- or 40 million – have a disenfranchised wife, girlfriend, mother, partner or reluctant companion, who is overshadowed or excluded from “The Club.”
http://www.sportswidow.com/features/the_definition_of_a_sports_wid.html

This is in no way intended to be interpreted as an excuse for the neglecting our loved ones, it is just an explanation that we as humans are prone to all kinds of obsessive behavior and excessive CDing is only one of them. Neglected women exist all over the map, and it is due to many more reasons than "Pink Fog". Having said that, I agree with you that it is incumbent on a caring spouse/BF/SO to give his woman the attention and affection she deserves. But GG women need to do their part too. If you feel neglected by your CDer, by all means, speak up! Good relationships are built on good communication. And I think that we as CDers are more sensitive than the average male.

As I wrote earlier, I believe that as CDers, we are uniquely equipped to provide emotional support and sensitivity for our women.

Quoting my earlier post:
"We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows."
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670863&highlight=#post2670863

Ultimately, as has been already written in this thread, CDing is a very individual thing, and as Marissa so aptly put it, "The only way to know what level of commitment your SO is at, is to have an open dialogue with your SO."

Your point, if I understand it correctly, (please tell me if I am wrong) is that women should behave like women, and not like little girls. I am sensing here that you are looking for a mature attitude toward womanhood on the part of CDers.

I agree that this is a desirable thing, but I think that you should remember that every GG woman was once a silly middle school girl. I can remember when I was young that all I would ever hear from the girls was giggling and silliness. I didn't put a judgment on that, I just recognized that they were having fun. There's nothing wrong with that, is there?

In fact, one of the most famous songs about girls is the 80's hit released by Cyndi Lauper, "Girls Just Want to Have Fun".

This is part of what Wikipedia says about the song:
"The song was written by Robert Hazard, who recorded it in 1979. He wrote it from a male point of view. For Lauper's version, she changed the lyrics slightly to allow it to be performed by a female and Hazard approved the minor changes. Her version appeared on her 1983 debut solo record, She's So Unusual. It is a synthesizer-backed anthem about the roles of women in society and is considered by many to be a feminist classic of the era. Gillian G. Gaar, author of She's a Rebel: The History of Women in Rock & Roll (2002), described the single and corresponding video as a "strong feminist statement", an "anthem of female solidarity" and a "playful romp celebrating female camaraderie."[5]"

This famous song about girls and their ultimate desires was written by a man but became known as a "feminist classic." Is it so hard to believe that men can empathize with women's true feelings? If anything, the expressions you see on this site are very much a playful romp celebrating CD camaraderie! You can see all levels of maturity here from baby girls, (yes, some fem fetishists like to wear diapers) to full-grown, sophisticated ladies. But even the most mature of us, like real women, have the urge to just go out and have fun, the way young girls do. We want to giggle, joke, play, and let down our hair with each other. And this site is one of the very very few venues where we have the freedom to do so.

I respect your desire to see more maturity in the threads and posts here. I think you probably do see more of that feminine maturity on the TS side where they experience more of the real-life issues that real GGs face. Please understand that for the most part our playfulness and immaturity is no reflection on how we really view women in their proper roles and lives. Speaking for myself, I have the highest regard for women's sensibilities, their practicality, their dignity, and their personal feelings. But as CDers, when we come here we are girls wanting to have fun.

As I have written before, CDing is very much rooted in the imagination as it is rooted in reality. But we by necessity model ourselves after reality. I like to think that we look at the best parts of womanhood and emulate them. I was once a middle school teacher. I've listened into more than a few younger GG girl's conversations. Besides talking about boys, I have found that they discuss makeup, jewelry, perfume and clothes quite a bit. Even mature women talk about that. Do we fault women because they are so concerned about their outward appearance? Most sincerely not! Beauty and fashion are billion-dollar industries!

And so when we CDers chat, we chat about what we feel. Many of us are new to the world of things feminine. And to many of us, it is quite exciting. It is just as exciting to a man learning feminine things as it is exciting for a woman learning about things traditionally in men's domain. If you are an older woman, you know just what I mean. Women have not always enjoyed the freedoms to enter those domains that they do now. Some of us are more mature, and some are just learning. But we all just want to have fun here.

So I guess that what I am saying is, you might look at our less mature CDers in the way a mom looks at her girls growing up.

Let us have our fun.

MandyLee

12-01-2011, 02:55 PM

I'm a CD rellised at about 5 that dressing up just felt right. I don't pretend to think I can really know what its like to be a woman heck I still can't figure out woman. My S/O says she see a change in me when I spend time enfem. She says i show a more female side. At times she forgets I'm not female as my whole being changes to a softer and fem. manerisums.
What sucks is male or female I still cant spell worth a S@#$. LOL

jaleecd

12-01-2011, 03:02 PM

Kim and Amy
I see something in your answers that resonate with growing up experiences that may of tipped us

toward emulating the positive influences modeled in our lives. I believe that the love,protection and sacrifices shown in comparison to the drunken rages and abuse by the men(word used young in cheek)in our moms lives left us with inner vow to not be that person, and to try to find other role models. mom did her best in a time where She had little choices in jobs and opportunities. I started to try Her clothes during this time trying to find something I could not define within myself.
I found modles of hyper maleness inJohn Wane ,etc, but deep in side I related with the courage shown me by my Mom.
I think the dressing in women's garb is an acknowledgement of the values and love She lived to raise Her two boys.
The person She was, topped the example shown by the abusive drunks that She seemed to drag home and marry.
maybe the fleeing to the softness, color and styles of women's clothes are an escape from the male side that
I can't always trust to be loving and caring in a non hurtful way.
I think that the replys showed a lot of heart in trying to explain hidden reasons of behavior, that They can't put words to. jmho

Jenny Doolittle

12-01-2011, 04:00 PM

I cant help but feel the person asking the question already has an opinion made up on this topic and all the answers she reads will not change her perspective.

With that said, I realize I will never know truly what it is to be a woman. I in some ways feel privileged to have a mild understanding of certain aspects. (how difficult it is to keep your pants off a dirty floor when peeing) Or ( how special it is when you are offered a compliment from a nice person on the street) But Yes I have to agree I will never know the hardships that are hidden deep inside her question.

I also must say, after attending some local transgender meetings, there are many who are much more committed then I to living out that side of their personality that drives them to be true to their gender body. Does that make me a bad person because I am not as committed as another? I hope not, because I am simply living my own life as best I can and am not judging others for their own beliefs.

Connie D50

12-01-2011, 04:20 PM

To the unknown GG

I'm married I have 2 daughters and 2 grandaughters what I want most in my crossdressing is the friendship that 2 girls can have that no 2 men would ever have. I have seen it close up and I think it's a beatufull thing.

Connie

Cheryl T

12-01-2011, 04:35 PM

To Anonymous GG:
Thanks for the clarification. Seems many of us misinterpreted or over exagerated the questions and went on many tangents.

As for the threads that you found disturbing about body parts and panties and such. I have to say that many times I too cringe when I see those and also when I read the posts about how "girly I feel" and the like.
When my wife first came to the forum I warned her that we run the gamut of likes from the pure fetishist to the TS and everywhere in between. I remember years ago when the only way to talk to another was through the ads in magazines and exchanged letters. I would receive responses from people who loved to wear slips (10 at a time) or other things in the vein. It would scare me for it was not what I am about and not who I wanted to talk to about this part of my life.
She was hesitant when we first attended our Tri-Ess meetings. She did not know what to expect, from me and from the others. Soon she found out that so many of us had similar backgrounds, most were well educated, we had similar likes and dislikes as well as the most outstanding feature...we were just average people trying to cope with something we didn't understand ourselves.
One comment she made to me that was revealing was as we returned from a meeting one night. She turned to me and said, "you act very feminine". My response was, "I'm not acting". This is part of me and this is how it finds expression. I didn't ask for this, I didn't request that Santa bring it one Christmas. It's just who I am and how I was born. I only know that when I can express this and let the world see Cheryl for who she is it makes me much happier, much more at peace with myself and with the world.
I can also say that it has brought my wife and I closer. As I told her, years ago, when she would want to go shopping. I would find a reason not to go because I knew I would want to look at the clothes and watch the women in the mall...not because I wanted them, but because I wanted to observe them, to see what they were wearing, what looked good on them and what didn't. I felt that this would be too apparent to her and it would give me away. Besides, if she went then I would be able to "steal" some time for me to dress. Now she allows me to be me and I can dress whenever I please at home. I spend every minute I can with her because that's where I want to be, whether it is shopping or cleaning the house. I no longer "steal" time because I am free to have that time whenever I wish, so long as it does not affect us, our friends, and our home. I am much more of a husband than I had been, because I am much more ME than I ever was.
The running joke between us is now when we go shopping (me dressed much of the time) we will see some cute skirt on the rack and invariably it's my size. She will just shake her head and laugh.

It's not about what color panties I have on, or if I'd prefer a vagina or boobs. I participate in those flights of fancy just to be social, but they do feel awkward to me also at times. They feel so shallow, but after all, it is part of this dressing we do.

If knowing what being a woman is means understanding, sensitivity, caring and sharing then yes, I do know what it is, and my dressing allows me to express that without all the guilt and fear that a man feels when he must express those things. Men inherently are afraid to do that because they are all brought up to believe that those things mean he is a sissy. A man must be macho, in charge at all times and that's just not me. My expression of my femininity is an expression of the real me. I am complex, I am real, I am human.

I hope I haven't added just another tangent and that I've helped clarify one girl's feelings about all this.

ReineD

12-01-2011, 06:42 PM

....................

I wanted to clear up and say that I had this question not cause of my husband and things he has posted on the forums but because of what I have seen you all post on the forums and talk about and such so it just brought this general question up for me cause I am sure other GGs in the past or even current GGs and GGs of the future will be curious too. Plus it gave you all time as well to reflect on things which I noticed some doing.

Lorileah

12-01-2011, 06:59 PM

Meh, I just consider the "what are you wearing" posts as a right of passage. They are mostly from people who are so new that anything is exciting and wondrous. Been there done that, threw out the thongs because they were not comfortable :)

But I do think there are many many more threads that actually have substance. It has taken me years to sort of figure out which those are though....like the shoe threads. I mean really, exactly what size shoes do I wear and where can I get them?

Gwendolyn

12-01-2011, 07:42 PM

I pretty much NEVER post here...but I felt I had to contribute my effort to help answer the question asked.

You ask the questions with the caveat attached (this applies to CDs only, not TSs). That is part of your problem in understanding the forums.

If you imagine this forums as a football field and put all the crossdressers (by the definition I think you are using) in one end zone and all the transexual posters (once again in the definition I think you are using) in the opposite end zone you will still probably have 80% or more of the posters on this standing somewhere on the field and unsure of where they should be standing.

Furthermore if you were to make a poll and list 100 options instead of 2 to group folks on the board into you would STILL have people stuck out on the field wondering where they fit in as none of the 100 options described them.

Ultimately any person that answers your questions are answering them for only themselves. Each person is an individual and everyone has motives and takes actions (like choosing what thread to post to) appropriate to how they feel individually. You aren't going to get any sort of consensus answer like you are hoping.

It would be like if I had a room of people who all had the same favorite color and expected all of their reasons for picking that color to be the same or even related to each other.

Anna Lorree

12-01-2011, 08:35 PM

I consider myself transgendered, which includes crossdressing, but may go further. I'm not sure yet. My experience as a TG person is different than many TG people here, my experience "as a man" is different than many men out there, and I am sure that many GG's have very different experiences, as well. This is not meant to belittle the curious GG, but to help answer her. No, I likely have very little understanding of what being a "real woman" means to the original GG or any other GG out there. I have a concept of some of it (from talking to my wife and her experiences), but obviously I can never give birth or any of the biological roles of a GG. I aspire to at least some of the social roles of being a woman, but acknowledge that I probably don't make the grade. Is the grass greener? I have no idea, because I can never really get there.

As a TG person who crossdresses, I can say that I am trying to emulate femininity to express that which I feel inside. I have wanted to express femininity since I was a young child. When a GG dresses nicely, I assume she wants to catch some male attention, whether she acts on that or not. As I try to emulate femininity, the best ruler to measure my success is attention from men. I have no plans of acting on that, but it pays me a compliment none the less. I do have other curiouscities, but this isn't the forum for that. If she wishes, she may ask me in a private message. I promise to not disclose her identity. I doubt she will, and that's OK, too.

Anna

docrobbysherry

12-01-2011, 09:16 PM

Next time u see a GG question like this, JUST ANSWER IT YOURSELF!:)
I'll post my two cents now since I haven't so far.

I know there are the tons of girly, tee-hee, slumber party (as you aptly named it) type of posts here. Do these CDers really believe this is what women are all about, or are they just here having fun and blowing off steam, on a break from their lives of being husbands and fathers? Probably both. For some it is just a small aspect of their lives, while others may well have twisted views this is what women are all about. I tend to think for the average CD, this is just what they do on their leisure time. One CDer may well post a thread about dealing with having been seen by a neighbor, and then the next second on a lark may well post he is wearing pink panties in the panty thread because he can do this here and he can't talk about this around the water cooler at work. And, well, men like panties for whole other reasons than we do. :p So they notice them and they like to talk about them.

And then he logs off the forum, and brings his wife's car in to get an oil change, or he mows the lawn. Or he helps with the kids.

But there are also many threads here that deal with the more serious issues of guilt, shame, purging, how to deal with this in marriages and with their families, how to define it for themselves, where is it going or not, is it pink fog, how to maintain balance. Not all the threads are about the frivolous stuff.

And then there are the more practical threads: how to be convincing. How to put on makeup. How to take care of wigs or what is the best way to cover beard shadow. This doesn't mean it is all they think about, just where else can they go to ask these questions and learn?

And then after all the effort of putting themselves together, there are the threads showing off the results, which if they are closeted, this is one of the few places they can do this.

But I agree ... when I first came here, the more mundane or practical type threads, or the struggling type threads totally were outside my radar. I was confused about a lot of things ... there were things my SO wanted to do that I didn't understand (like why on earth would he want a myspace profile, why would he want to post pics, why would he want to meet other people dressed, wasn't I enough, etc), and so every post that hinted at fantasies of having women body parts and wanting men did stand out for me way more than all the others. I became convinced of many things that were not true for him, just based on what I was reading here and this bothered him a lot. I've sorted through it now, but I do undertand what you are going through.

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here. :p

Anyway, I hope the responses you received here helped you. :hugs:

After 100+ CD/TG/TS posts, yours answers the thread questions better, more succinctly, and completely than all the others put together!:thumbsup:

Not only that, being a GG, u even UNDERSTOOD HER QUESTIONS better than the rest of us!

TxKimberly

12-01-2011, 09:27 PM

Next time u see a GG question like this, JUST ANSWER IT YOURSELF!:)

After 100+ CD/TG/TS posts, yours answers the thread questions better, more succinctly, and completely than all the others put together!:thumbsup:

Not only that, being a GG, u even UNDERSTOOD HER QUESTIONS better than the rest of us!

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

LeaP

12-02-2011, 08:00 AM

So in the end some took my question to extreme and missed my point and some kinda hit it on the head. Not do you know what it takes to be a woman as in what we deal with in our lives.. but how we act and conduct ourselves our mannerisms. (And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)

So, in the end what you were really asking about was whether crossdressers know what it takes to be women as you think they should be and not actually as they are?

Now I understand your confusion.

Lea

Laurie A

12-02-2011, 08:46 AM

The thing to remember in a forum this size, is different CDs will post in different areas and will have different motives and interests, and the CDs who aren't in a pink fog posting what seems to us the sillier stuff, or for whom it is a small part of who they are and they also appreciate their wives and their wives' lives, kinda resent being lumped in together with the more superficial way of defining what a CD is all about. Just like I don't like to be lumped in with a stereotypical view of womanhood. So I think it's important (not just for you but for everyone else including me, other CDs, and other GGs) to keep in mind the wide variety of the personalities here.

Reine,

Thanks, I agree with your elegant summary.

My favorite aspect of this board is the acceptance and tolerance of the widely divergent personalities who participate here. Some posts make me cringe too, but who am I to judge?

"Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
I wanted to clear up and say that I had this question not cause of my husband and things he has posted on the forums but because of what I have seen you all post on the forums and talk about and such so it just brought this general question up for me cause I am sure other GGs in the past or even current GGs and GGs of the future will be curious too. Plus it gave you all time as well to reflect on things which I noticed some doing."

I think it is useful for all of us the reflect on why we post here and what our motivations are. Thanks for input, it does help to see things from your point of view.

Claire Cook

12-02-2011, 08:56 AM

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

Yep, Reine nailed this in a way the rest of us didn't (or couldn't).

Amy Lynn3

12-02-2011, 09:07 AM

What Claire Cook said. For many years I have read post made by Reine and she always "gets it". My hat is always off to her.

Suzy Parker

12-02-2011, 10:46 AM

The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. I have crossdressed as far back as I can remember. This is a part of who I am and will always be with me. I would like to offer up a thought and that thought is that for the occasional reader threads may seem all fluff and glam but this is a safe place for some of us to display our repressed inner feelings that we cannot otherwise do in our day to day life. So if people browse the topics the ones that grab the attention are usually just the ones that scream "Look at Me" which are only about 2% of the average discussions that take place here. People tend to judge an entire group based on the actions of just a few, profiling. We talk about things in this forum that may seem like glitz or glam because we like to while others just take them for granted. During my short time here I have found this to be a community of people who offer their support to one another freely and without question. What goes unnoticed are the personal interactions between friends. All I ask is that before condemning this group you read more than just those few threads you find offensive or questionable and view the others. This is a wonderful forum and is kept that way tthrough the diligence of the site moderators. Not sucking up but I personally witnessed a moderator smash a troll who was a repeat offender and it was quite impressive. So thank you for keeping it real.

Can't we all just get along?

Suzy

Aprilrain

12-02-2011, 01:02 PM

"(And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)"

Are you implying that there are genetic woman who's actions make their sex questionable?
What actions would those be?

Are we talking about femaleness, womanhood, or "being a lady"? These are all very different. females fart! ALL humans fart but a "lady" would never be caught farting or admit to it LOL.

Your original question is too nebulous to be answered and you clarified to a point, you said you understand that CDs can't know what its like to bare children etc. which is femaleness not womanhood and certainly not "lady like". (I've been there done that and cleaned up the mess afterward, my first son was born at home, there is NOTHING "lady like" about giving birth) As someone else pointed out being a woman in 2011 America is likely very different from being a woman in 18th century China, however the experience of baring children is likely very similar (minus the technological differences of the two time periods). All of your examples of femaleness can be taken away from a female though either through birth defect, disease or trauma, so does being infertile negate a females femaleness? As far as men not getting how a woman thinks I DO understand what you're saying however I think the implication that all woman think the same is imprecise. I think the experience of woman not getting men is ubiquitous but that does not mean we all think alike or automatically "get" each other.

Anonymous, your absolutely right, who cares about panty color or nail color or what you wore to the mall or blah blah blah a hundred other things that CDers might get excited about, but for whatever reason this stuff is exciting for these guys to talk about. Its probably not unlike guys who get excited talking about a plethora of other hobbies that men typically partake in like working on cars or collecting guns or (UGH!) watching football! I don't know about you but I simply do not get football or really any sport for that matter. But I don't sit around wondering why guys find watching it so exciting either (yeah i know there are woman who like sports too, my mom is one i don't get her either!). In that same vein there are lots of woman who just oo and ah over ballet which is only sightly less boring than football (at least the music is soothing to fall asleep to).

From a TS perspective (and I know you're not interested in a TS perspective but after 5 pages I can't help but chime in) When I first started to transition I worried about stuff like that. "oh no! I don't like ballet, does that mean im not really female?" then my sister admitted to hating ballet too and she is unquestioningly female. Over and over again you will hear a TS say "I just want my body to match my mind" what does that mean? it means, for a M2F TS, having boobs and a vagina and for many of us facial surgery to eliminate the masculine characteristics of the male face. I have met more TS woman who still partake in their previously "male" hobbies (even football????) and who make no attempt to change their voice and some with "masculine" mannerisms, so they don't "act" female, does this negate their brain gender? is a female a female because of the way she acts? for as long as I can remember I've had a vagina....if only in my head but that did not give me the experience of growing up female. Granted the more feminine a TS is the easier her transition and ability to be employed will be. but for some a life time of masculine training and an excessively male body are insurmountable obstacles. The best they can do may not be good enough for the outside world but again does that mean they are not female?

I feel that the TS experience goes to the heart of what you are trying to get at. You wonder why these guys focus on panties and polish and not the more important aspects of what essentially amounts to passing like mannerisms, voice, comportment etc. I think the ones for whom dressing has transcended the "bedroom days" do try to pass and of course once you reach this "phase" of dressing you are not likely to be interested in threads about panty color.

Dawn cd

12-02-2011, 02:58 PM

The questioner's "grass is greener" comment indicates she believes there is a clearly-defined fence separating the genders. I don't believe that's true, and I suspect many psychologists would agree. Certainly C.G. Jung believed every person is a mixture of anima and animus (female and male principles). Even biologists would say we are a mixture of male and female. People differ in their degree of mixture. Society, however, prefers clear delineations, so we repress our secondary gender-identification. Cross-dressing is our way of tapping into the reservoir of feminine soul we have in different degrees. I realize this is troubling to people who believe human nature is black or white, off or on. Human nature is just more complicated than that.

Suzy Parker

12-02-2011, 03:18 PM

If people can be born physically as both sexes known as a hermaphrodite could it be possible that some peoples brains develope that way at birth? I have been a crossdresser as long as I can remember. There was no trauma or bad childhood that can be the reason. I feel I am just wired that way. There are a lot worse things I could be interested in. I have no interest in being female. I am a happily married str8 male and actually enjoy both aspects of my life.

Suzy

Aprilrain

12-02-2011, 04:47 PM

If people can be born physically as both sexes known as a hermaphrodite could it be possible that some peoples brains develope that way at birth?

the proper tern is intersexed unless your talking about plants!

Lace-Is-Great

12-02-2011, 06:05 PM

This is quite a fascinating thread! I will add my own thoughts on the matter, without necessarily giving a specific answer only to the original asking Genetic Female-Assigned-at-Birth, but also other peripheral topics / points that are associated with crossdressers, things that were brought up by other posters within this thread, and the lack of more understanding in society-at-large...

This is my general statement:
I think it's beautiful that many people can express themselves uniquely :)

So long as people are not harming others or infringing on the rights and freedoms of others, we should pursue happiness.

Women are wonderful, and there are millions of different examples of people who demonstrate different traits of women and men.

I agree, the experience of each respective gender is unique and special.
Manners and more "mature" behaviour, classiness and etiquette are desireable traits in many parts of society.
So are courage, honour, strength, perserverance, intelligence, moderation, and well, honestly... good looks!
LOL

Not all women are "ladies", and not all men are "gentleman".

Obviously crossdressers cannot become real women by wearing women's garments, but emotionally and mentally there are certain songs that put countless human beings in certain places that they'd love be at, but which they may never be at.
Listening to that music that touches our souls in certain ways and puts us in the shoes of people we admire has a powerful value in and of itself.

I can understand how some might take the question or wording of the question in a... well, in a not-so-supportive way... at the same time, it takes courage just to open the door to new knowledge, even if just at least a little bit in the beginning.
Especially in light of the harsh feelings that are ingrained into many about what is "normal" and "abnormal" in society.
Knowledge can go a long ways to breaking down the barriers between crossdressers, genetic women, and society-at-large (though perhaps over a very very large passage of time --- look how various religions and political affiliations have been negatively scrutinized throughout history).

I think it's flattering to women that many, many men would like to be like them to a certain degree.
I also believe that it's easy for both women and men to take for granted some of the biological inherent features, and sociological priviledges / permissions that different people have.

Wearing the panties, bras, nylon stockings, dresses, makeup, feminine hairstyles... maybe you could see it as an analogy to when teenagers first get their Driver's License --- it's a big, electrifying thrill in the beginning!

And, for many, even if it's not as thrilling later on, most drivers would still feel very inconvenienced or uneasy if all-of-a-sudden they were not permitted to drive anymore.

And driving is more a thing of utility, whilst crossdressing is more a thing of internally feeling good and connecting with something that many people love in a very special, unique way.

In case the GG asker is wondering why many male crossdressers like going "over-the-top" with their styling ----
Since most men have developed certain masculine features due to testosterone and development during puberty and young adulthood, it takes an awful lot for some to cover up those manly features and seem more feminine.

While the average attractive female can still seem and feel internally feminine in jeans and t-shirt with no makeup, the average male cannot or will not seem or internally feel feminine wearing plain jean and t-shirt.

Also, can you blame many Americans for associating feminity with lingerie when as consumers we are inundated with advertisements for Victoria's Secret, JC Penny underwear ads in catalogs, and classic burlesque movies of women shaking their god-given attributes in a more colorful way??

Societal traditions, views, and "norms" have established contemporary guidelines within countless societies in the world for what is "feminine" and "masculine" in their respective geographical areas.

Our genetic code biologically goes a long ways in what every human being, male and female, wants and craves and feels internally and externally.

Is any human being, male or female, to be maligned and judged with negative feelings because they would rather be a certain way some or most of the time? No, certainly that is not just.

So some people want to be super-heroes, firefighters, astronauts, professional athletes, tigers, horses, vampires, robots and exotic aliens from outer space...
Is there anything really wrong with that, even if in some cases it's physically impossible? No. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I know I can never really be a real woman, genetically down to DNA and chromosones, even if / when I put in the full effort to appear as a woman on the exterior.
Still, I love thinking about it and imagining what it would be like.

It's certainly more understandable for a human male to associate with and want to be like a human female, because many of us grow up close to our mothers and sisters and aunts and wonderful female teachers / civic leaders / doctors / athletes.

The beauty and strength of countless women is awesome and should be admired by all!
:)

Biologically all humans are female until the male hormones in the fetus of an XY start to alter it towards the male physical features.
But, like males who have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, if their body didn't have the reaction with the male hormones, they would appear as feminine as many genetic chromosonal XX females, from head to toe.

I can understand the anger of a girlfriend or wife finding out later on from their male partner / spouse about crossdressing, since it seems like deceit.

But it is the disdain of many in general society that drives many crossdressers to not tell their wives or girlfriends right away, if at all.

I hope the day comes when crossdressing, both for male-to-female and female-to-male, is something so common as being a fan of eating a particular flavor of ice-cream or driving a particular brand of automobile, that it does not elicit such a negative reaction from partners when later on they found out or were told about it by their romantic partner or longtime friend / soulmate.

"Oh my god, honey, why didn't you ever TELL me that you preferred Cookies-&-Cream Ice-Cream and driving Pontiacs?!? I feel so betrayed!!" lol

I know, I know, I shouldn't trivialize THAT much, because people fall in love with the person they perceive rather than what the object of their affection prefers in brands and flavors, but... you get my point.

Yes, it's much easier to accept various behaviors when it's accepted by society and known about in the beginning of the dating & relationship phase, but life is far from ideal.

Even in relationships where a wife / girlfriend and husband / boyfriend share every intimate detail in the beginning to the best of their knowledge, and if both are firmly within the typical boundaries of their respective gender roles all the time, inside-&-out...
people change, the couple's interests can change, and and love can wither away with each year.

Crossdressing certainly isn't the reason why almost half of all marriages end in divorce... there are mean and cruel spouses and significant others who could frivolously throw away their marriage or romantic relationship simply because they grow bored or unappreciative of the other.

I hope and pray that society-at-large and individuals will become more accepting and understanding of crossdressers, no matter how difficult it may be for some to understand or to relate or empathize.

And thanks to you, GG, for asking such a thought-provoking question, and for wanting to know more.
Your follow-up answer and clarification of manners and behaving in a lady-like manner is certainly a valid point for many.
I wish you the best of luck in your journey of learning more and understanding about crossdressers :)

~ Daniel / Danielle

TxKimberly

12-02-2011, 07:30 PM

daviolin

12-02-2011, 07:46 PM

To me its the clothes and Fashion. I love to dress up and pose for photoshoots. I used to go out in public, but I chose to go back in the closet. I couldn't present myself as a woman very good. And I think I was just embarssing myself. I just love the way the clothes feel on me, and the private posing and pictures is my main likes about crossdressing. And yes I read all the fashion mag's out there. Daviolin

Tara D. Rose

12-02-2011, 08:42 PM

1. Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

AnonymousGG, Y

You say you’re curious to know our thoughts (CD”S) on what it takes to be a woman. You say here in your typed words that it is more than heels, shoes, clothing make up female parts, etc. And I totally agree. It is more than a style of clothes to be a woman, which I’m sure we all can agree to that. As I read your words , I can clearly see you are of so many confusions. It’s like your questions and words branch out to so many avenues, but you say you get the clothing. You’re telling us that it’s more than “heels, make up and female body parts”. Those words are a little loaded. Let’s break it down. You say “it’s more than clothes”, let’s stop there. Yes it is more than clothes. The continuation of your questions are more than ”female body parts” Well, let’s take away the heels, clothing, make up, but leave the body parts ,ie, natural born Vagina, breast’s, etc. then you have a woman. And that’s what you are,,, a natural born woman.
So with that being said, you wonder if CD’s, I’m assuming by your words and maybe I’m mistaken maybe not, that you do mean MTF CD’s and not Ts’s, and so from that assumption , I continue on with your question of do CD’s know what it’s like to be a woman?
As with any group of people or even the whole world’s human population, CD’s are a minority, and a small minority to the extreme by way of the world’s whole population. Then we break down the CD population as a whole. We are as diverse and as different from one another as one snow flake is from another. I used to think that all crossdressers were the same, but after several cd,tg,ts events, plus many years on cd sites, I, and many others like me, or similar to me but also are very vast and we cannot all fit in the same barrel. There is no bucket to fit us all in. The differences among cd’s are likened to the world population itself. Personally, I do fit into a very side spectrum of cross dressing. It’s like all white people do not fit into one category, nor can all black people fit into just one category, nor are all men the same as well as all women are not the same, on and on. I really wish life were just that simple. I do know of late though that I am a much more loveable and likable person when Tara meets anyone face to face and in person. I have no problem blending in with all of the degrees and spectrums of cd, tg,s and ts’s. It is so natural when I meet multitudes of the minority of my kind in person. But when I type words, I’m so misunderstood.
Do I know what it’s like to be a woman? I’m not 100% sure. But I can only imagine. Let me say that again, I can only imagine. I do know that when I’m Tara and out and about, I feel the power that women have, so many women don’t even realize their power. But I know their power and can easily capitalize on it. I read or see stories of very beautiful women commit suicide, for they have so much power over men and don’t even realize it. I remember through my 20’s, I spent many a lonely night. I was a good looking young man, I had it all going for me, but yet, I went home from club’s all alone and with empty pockets. I had sexual needs, and desires, but all too often, I had to go home with so many disappointments. And I’d talk to a few friend girls, and they were getting action, boyfriends and so much was so open to them as well as it is for so many of them today, for they had the power. They had and still do have the power, and some of them realize it and some of them do not. Some here talk about hard times of some women. That is not the norm.
So anonymous, I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but when I am Tara, I can so easily capitalize on all the power that fills me, and so many doors open to me, doors that I know open automatically merely because they see a woman. Cd’s know who and what we are to a degree and even we are so confused from one CD to the next one. I’m going to cut this short now, with this, several times I have held a revolver to my head, life as a man and all that goes with it, I could so easily flushed it all away with the pull of that trigger, but I do know that had I been born a woman,,, all the way, life would have been so much easier. It is a very big picture, one that if I was in person with all of us here, I know I could make myself so very clear. I also know that of late on this site, a “CD site”, that there is not equality between males and females here. The sisterhood I thought I could or that I prayed to find, or at least cd’s similar to me, does not exist among us here. I used to wake up everyday to get on this site with hopes to find mutual cyber companionship, but since last week, I am convinced, even that dream that I once had, is now shattered. Life as a cd is very ,very difficult and hard. Nowadays I realize that I’m forced back into the realms of just being a lurker on this site, or have been forced to just to keep my opinions to myself, or just to say how great that outfit looks on certain threads. Even on this site, GG’s don’t get slammed and flamed like CD’s do. That is just one of the thousands of differences between men and women. So, do we, or I know what it's like to be a woman? Maybe I do or maybe I don't. But I do FEEL life is so much easier for a woman.
I’m really puzzled why you couldn’t just post this question in this forum and back it all with your screen name?
Love & Respect…………..Tara

sara.s

12-02-2011, 09:07 PM

Lace-Is-Great

12-02-2011, 09:33 PM

Tara, you made some wonderful observations... thank you for sharing such powerful emotions and insights :)
You've got the beautiful heart of a woman beating in your chest, and I wish you all the best in finding more of that sisterhood which many of us seek!

It is certainly true that in many venues in modern times, women do have many advantages over men ---

Woman power is awesome!!!
:)

And I don't mean just in the beauty department and being fawned over by admirers ---
More and more business professionals, politicians, medical specialists, and CEO's are female. And I believe that's a good thing.

It is upsetting to me how in many societies in the past, and still too much in the present throughout various parts of the world, women are not allowed the same priviledges, rights, and influence as men in certain societies.

Hopefully in the near future, the whole world would give equal appreciation, rights, and power to both women and men.

And even then, within both gender categories, people tend to appreciate and differentiate due to more / less / average amounts of intelligence, charm, charisma, gracefulness in speech & mannerisms, confidence, finances, political influence, strength, attractiveness, aggressiveness, etc...

The world is truly not a fair place in and of itself... justice and fairness are side effects of the desires / lack of desires of individuals and groups as a whole.... society's rules and random chance of things for each person.

Going back to what Tara said --- it is definitely a big part of the appeal for cross dressers to exhibit and/ or adopt feminine traits in order to garner that attention and allure which many women possess.

I also agree that there as many different individuals and reasons for male-to-female crossdressers to do what they do as there are stars in the sky... or at least as there are stars in Hollywood
;)

Sure, many will share on alot of the motivations and converge on many desires, but that can be said for any unique group.
In any case, the greater the understanding and acceptance, the better!

Ayame

12-02-2011, 09:44 PM

As if anyone really knows what it feels like to be a woman or a man. We know what it's like to carry out social constructions, however, does carrying out social constructions of gender really make anyone a woman or a man? I'm not really a fan of essentialism, do you really think cave women starved themselves and made pink clothing with floral designs to attract cave men? Keep telling yourselves this is what men and women are suppose to do, you'd only be lying to yourselves.

ReineD

12-02-2011, 11:48 PM

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.

I think it's because some of the members deeply feel the pain of not being able to freely express themselves. The Anonymous GG's post evidenced in a poignant manner the difficulties that spouses and family members have in understanding what the CDing is about. And what is more painful than a loved one who doesn't understand who you are. No one is to blame for this, other than the society in which we live.

It's a vicious circle for many couples: first he feels ashamed, then he tells her (or she finds his stuff) when he can't keep a lid on it anymore, then she goes into shock because she never expected this, she feels lied to, and also because she doesn't understand. So, to spare her further grief he then tries to keep a lid on it even more, thinking this is how he should reach a place of balance, which she then sees as his attempt to hide something that means more to him than she does. Vicious circle. And then perhaps they both get their backs up against the wall. Or they sweep things under the carpet.

I imagine that many members reading this and other threads like it are reminded of feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Still, I agree that sarcasm and hostility will not help to improve matters. But I imagine that those who allow the anger to come to the surface, do so because they are venting, knowing full well their own family members will not read their words. If their wives were members here, I doubt they'd be posting the same thing. In the meantime, the GGs who are here trying to understand get pushed even further away because of the hostility.

It's really sad for everyone. :sad:

k lynn

12-03-2011, 06:08 AM

I also do not want to be a woman or know what it takes to be one just like the clothes and have since I was a kid at age 5

suzy1

12-03-2011, 07:54 AM

the proper tern is intersexed unless your talking about plants!

I looked up intersexed on Google and its having a body that is part male and part female.
What Suzy meant I think was having a male body but within the brain or mind being a combination of both sexes.
I am saying this as a member with little knowledge of this subject so I could be talking rubbish

SUZY

Jonianne

12-03-2011, 08:18 AM

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

I have gone to Reine time and again complaining about how guys are screwing things up in their lives and relationships and time and again, Reine will always come to the guys defence or at least try to share some understanding. While at the same time defending the GG and acknowleding her point of view. How Reine pulls this off and helps cool things down untill things can be worked out, is amazing. She has made a major impact on my world view.

BTW, when is Reine going to write her book and make a million?

Suzy Parker

12-03-2011, 08:48 AM

I looked up intersexed on Google and its having a body that is part male and part female.
What Suzy meant I think was having a male body but within the brain or mind being a combination of both sexes.
I am saying this as a member with little knowledge of this subject so I could be talking rubbish

SUZY

Yes that is exactly what I meant. The human brain is so complex and we know so little about it. I do not buy into the notion that this is something that is acquired or a result of society or due to trauma in early childhood. I had none of this and started dressing at age 5, 43 years of pure heaven and hell. My brain is intersexxed while my body is male.

BTW, the term Hermaphrodite has also been used to describe the human condition, it is just not scientifically correct and not used anymore. It comes from greek mythology Hermaphroditus.

Thanks SUZY for understanding what I meant.

Suzy

adrienner99

12-03-2011, 08:53 AM

Suzy Parker

12-03-2011, 09:14 AM

suzy1

12-03-2011, 09:23 AM

I am coming back here and stating where I stand on this.
I believe 100% that a part of me [in my brain not body] is female.

I can not ever see a time when something comes along that changes my belief in this.

Your sister [or part sister if you want] SUZY

Claire Cook

12-03-2011, 10:08 AM

Yes that is exactly what I meant. The human brain is so complex and we know so little about it. I do not buy into the notion that this is something that is acquired or a result of society or due to trauma in early childhood. I had none of this and started dressing at age 5, 43 years of pure heaven and hell. My brain is intersexxed while my body is male.

BTW, the term Hermaphrodite has also been used to describe the human condition, it is just not scientifically correct and not used anymore. It comes from greek mythology Hermaphroditus.

Thanks SUZY for understanding what I meant.

Suzy

I guess I can weigh in here but it's off the topic of this thread. There are lots of organisms that are truly hermaphroditic (having functional male and female reproductive organs in the same individual) -- earthworms, flatworms, snails, many flowering plants. With humans the definition is cloudy. We are not hermaphrodites -- usually have one set of organs or the other. Intersex is a genetic condition where an individual has elements of both male and female genitalia, and there can be a spectrum of possiblities here.

Just to further confuse the issue....

OK .. class dismssed!

ReineD

12-03-2011, 10:22 AM

Joni, there isn't a book. It would have to be printed with disappearing ink that has the magical property of reappearing with different thoughts, since my views on everything are constantly changing. :)

suchacutie

12-03-2011, 10:57 AM

I'm with Suzy1 entirely on this! There is very clearly a section of my brain that is wired differently from the section of my brain that matches my biological gender. It took a long time to realize this, which is why my wife and I only found "Tina" when I had just turned 55! As has been posted elsewhere in this forum, there is a growing body of biological research that shows it is rather complicated for the fetal brain (which would develop female if left to its own devices) to change to a male...the phrase is "hormonal washes" that bathe the brain in the appropriate male hormones to have the brain and body biochemistry match. Sometimes, these washes do not get done completely and, well, here we are! The speculation (a logical one) is that the differing amounts of success of the hormonal washes dictate the varied depth of femininity in an otherwise masculine biochemistry, e.g. some just enjoying the clothes to those who must transition completely!

I'm one of the remarkably fortunate members of this forum to have a wife who understands completely, and has stated directly that it must be just impossible to live a life without allowing what you really are to surface! My wife very much sees the differences between my masculine and feminine sides, and has stated that she finds this very positive! The other day she said Tina was, "so sweet".

The problem with having a brain that represents two genders centers around the massive confusion about what and who we are! I can only biologically experience being a man. I was socialized as a boy growing up. The only thing that I can do now is to attempt to learn what I missed, and to experience, as best I can, life from a woman's perspective. I can live, as best as possible for blocks of time, as Tina. This exposes me to all the vaguaries of life that have been well-documented on this forum. Nonetheless, there is no other way if I am to understand as much as possible about what I missed by not growing up as a girl (at least parttime), what I will never understand biologically, and those pieces that are impossible to understand because not ALL of my brain is wired in a feminine fashion.

Thus, I see the goal is to know who we are, know our limitations and deficiencies, and be happy with the knowledge that we are the best we can be. And being proud of all of that might not hurt either!! :)

best,
Tina

ReineD

12-03-2011, 01:40 PM

It took a long time to realize this, which is why my wife and I only found "Tina" when I had just turned 55!

Tina, I've been meaning to ask this, but looking back, do you now discern having had any special interest or curiosity in "things feminine", even when it would never have occurred to you to crossdress?

sometimes_miss

12-03-2011, 03:32 PM

I've tried to answer this type of question often here. It's not whether or not we 'know what it takes'. It's not about looking for an easier life. It's not about avoiding the responsibilities that men have. It's about doing something that we simply feel we are supposed to do. There are lots of different reasons for why we do it, and very very few know why we do it! It took me what, nearly 30 years to figure it all out about myself, and that was by seeking out everything I could about the subject. Psychologists have no treatment for it. What does that tell you?
It's because, like so many others, they are trying to find 'the one reason' why we do this. And they won't be able to, because there is no 'one reason'. There's a whole lot of different ones.
Do we know what it takes to be a woman? No. It's impossible. There's no way any man can know what it's like to grow up as a female, with all the social influences, emotional and hormonal differences, communicating differently, interacting and bonding with other people differently, the list just goes on and on. So, no, we don't know what it takes to be a woman. We know that certain things are harder, and others are easier. And we know that for the most part, people usually only see the 'greener' side of other's lives, which is what you suggest (but then again, women see the opposite view on the 'grass is greener' theory as well).
The grass is simply a different shade.
What you see here on this forum, anonymous GG, is a place which was created as a 'feel good' spot where men can overindulge themselves and not be called out on it (well, usually not, anyway), the 'one big slumber party' you think you see. In reality, it's not that at all. There's no real bonding going on here. It's all superficial expressions of what we're simply not allowed to express ANYWHERE ELSE. When you realise that one in forty men you meet is a crossdresser (and I bet you have no idea which ones we are), you'll understand how much we keep it all under control on a day to day basis.
The concept of men who say they are strictly heterosexual, but want to be with men when they are dressed as women, is foreign to me, because I don't experience that. Either you want to have sex with men, or you don't. If you do, then by definition, that is homosexual activity. What you are probably seeing here, GG, is the huge amount of pressure that society exerts on men in the form of religious and social stigmas when it comes to homosexuality. Sexuality, after all, is a bell curve (albeit skewed towards one end of the spectrum); few are completely at one end or another. But we're forced to behave that way, lest the wrath of society, family, friends take it's toll on us for not fitting into the role they want us to.
I've got all these thoughts, and nowhere to put them. If after reading my bio (link below) you have any questions, I will be happy to offer any insights that I can.

Aprilrain

12-03-2011, 05:52 PM

sanderlay

12-03-2011, 10:32 PM

First... Some Background...
I guess I identify as a crossdresser, as I mix my clothing, Male and Female. Personally I dislike the label crossdresser but that's my issue and off topic for this thread. I'm not married or have an SO, significant other, in my life. I'm in my mid fifties and am out in public now presenting as a bi-gender or two-spirited person for over a year or so. Forgive if I have my dates wrong. But I was crossdressing in private since I was a young child. I have never been able to stop, and I have tried many times. But now I've accepted this in my life and this has made me a happier person.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman.

For me, I'm not trying to be a woman. Then again, I'm not trying to be a man either. I'm trying to be myself which I can't do in the context of just a typical man. It's not me. But I also know I have much to learn when it comes to femininity and this side of myself. I see how this world is male dominated... and women, despite many gains, are still oppressed and stereotyped. The issue is still too real and discouraging.

I wish we were all equals and shared in the tasks and responsibilities of life on an equal footing with respect. But we all know that's not happening at present. I just wish to learn... fight for the oppressed... and keep an open mind. i won't stop learning in this life.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
...It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc,...

Clothing for me becomes a symbol of my feminine side. Yes... you're right... it's more than the clothing.

If I wore a male black suit, coat, tie and white shirt, it more like a costume. It's a power suit meant to symbolize masculinity and all those trapping. If I wore a casual polo shirt and male jeans I have changed to a symbolic casual male outfit.

Now... just take of my pants and wear a neutral angle length skirt and I'm now in mixed gender clothing is the western countries. I'm considered a crossdresser and some might even think I'm gay. But I'm not a woman nor am I trying to be. I just have on a long skirt.

Now... I do also under-dress everyday... and for me that is also symbolic. I have a mental need to do it. And so this sets me a part from men who just wear a skirt.

The clothing I mix is a variety and currently WITHOUT makeup. Also no wig despite my balding head.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
...which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums. ...

I won't deny that I love the sensuous feel of clothing. Women's clothes are softer fabrics and much wider variety of colors and patterns. Men's clothing tends to be rough and much fewer colors to chose from. This was very evident to me as a child and I felt was very unfair to be deny the choice as a male.

I also won't deny I'm a sensual being. What I do for fun, as long as I'm not harming others and respect their wishes, should be OK. I respect myself and forgive myself. I am a writer of fiction and have a good imagination. I enjoy a good laugh. But I have noticed we take each other way to seriously and do not always respect each other.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

I wish you could understand that if I did not have to dress I would not. It is not a choice for me... it is a need. If I could take a single pill or wave a magic wand and not feel the need to dress I would. But after over fifty years of denying myself, throwing away the clothing only to buy them again... I have accepted in myself that this is who I am. This is the way I was made. I embrace this side of myself by wearing some clothing that is considered feminine to be myself.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

I live in a rural setting and have watched this play out over and over again with the wildlife around me. I guess it is human nature to believe the neighbor's grass is better than your field. And from a distance it seems possible. But walk over and you see the same issues. Now turn around and it's a mirror of where I just was.

In society today I'm positive woman have it harder because of how society has treated them for many generations. So no... the grass is not greener.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
There are many responses, mostly from CDs:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...asts-or-Vagina

If it were possible... I think we should experience life in each gender, man or woman. Perhaps then we might respect each other. That was my reason... and fantasy at the moment to post in that thread.

Originally Posted by Anonymous GG (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164590-Question-to-CDs-only-from-Anonymous-GG&p=2670383&viewfull=1#post2670383)
And also, she refers to the many posts throughout the MtF section where CDs say they are hetero in guy mode, but they want to be with men when dressed.

I'm not in guy or girl mode. I'm presenting as both. Yea... what does that all mean? It does mean different things to different people and cultures. But I think you mean am I heterosexual when dressed. The answer is I'm attracted to women... not men.

faltenrock

12-05-2011, 03:37 AM

any GG needs to understand a few things in general:

we're all different, there is not a single explanation to understand CDing, I don't really think that any CD is able to exactly determine why he feels the desire to dress, it's not a man's choice to dress, dressing from time to time (very different for each CD) will make your partner happier and easier to get along with.......

Keep that in mind

Beverley Sims

12-05-2011, 06:19 AM

No, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. And of course it's not easy--nor is being a man, which is what I have to struggle with every second. "Being" a woman truly involves (in part) things like pregnancy and cramps. No thanks to either. I think I dress because I love women's clothes the same way some women do, and maybe fashion designers do. When I dress, I feel "This is right. This is me." No doubt there is more to it than that, but please don't begrudge us our love of things feminine, even if we don't know "what it takes" to be female.
Adrienne,
That's it in a nutshell. I never want to have babies, sex with men, periods, and all the pain and worry that goes along with it.
I have a SO that does all of that and I try and give her my 100 percent support.
I am a man who likes to emulate women and I SOMETIMES wish I had boobs, long hair, makeup and nice manicured fingernails.

HairyBethCD

12-05-2011, 11:05 AM

Personally I have no interest in wearing makeup, wigs, etc or the whole 'female experience' thing. I'm just a guy who likes wearing lingerie. In this respect, I seem different to most people here but hey, that's life!

LeaP

12-05-2011, 12:42 PM

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone.

Kimberly,

My last response could definitely be viewed as hostile. In fact, it reflects exasperation over the breezy remark at the end of the OP'ers response, essentially dismissing the importance of her own comments in the OP. Paraphasing: "Oh, I didn't mean ALL women, just THOSE women, you know, the ones I MEANT ..."

Or something.

Lea

Stephanie47

12-06-2011, 05:34 PM

I didn't have the time or inclination to read through seven pages of comments. I did read many.

Forty years ago when the women's movement was just starting out the young woman sitting across from me in a professional environment made a similar comment. Her complaint or observation was our female clients were tied down in the drudgery of changing diapers and raising kids. She lamented how great the husbands and boyfriends of those young women had it. I looked at her in amazement and asked what the heck was so stimulating for a guy to stand in a factory and bang out pots and pans all day for minimum wage? The guys worked in hot and dirty factories and in hazardous conditions.

Fast forward forty years and women are filling the work places. There are more women enrolled in college than guys. The military is a viable career option. The only thing I cannot do is give birth to a child. As a father and husband I assisted in all the child rearing. I did my share of the domestic chores without complaint. I gave my wife breaks from the drudgery of being home all day with the kids.

Now, as a retiree I am the stay at home homemaker. I do the domestic chores. I love to bake and cook. I tend the garden. The only thing different is I like to do those chores in a dress, a la June Cleaver or Harriet Nelson. This morning I stopped for a bite to eat and sat across from a military couple, man and woman, each dress in army utility fatigues. Equality!

I know what it takes to be a woman because there is no difference between a man and woman after that kid is born- or there shouldn't. And, if a GG is married to a guy who treats you like garbage-get a new guy.

PS: Somehow I wonder if it was customary for guys to wear dresses and gals to wear pants would guys cross dress in pants and women would don dresses once in a while???

jackie g

12-06-2011, 05:48 PM

I'm going to add my two cents before reading ALL of these comments ....at the risk of missing something important. But I'm willing to bet, that my point of view, is NOT covered in these seven pages .... confirming how different we all are sometimes, as some of you have noted.

My main point: You're right. I'm not really interested in the reality of what it means to be a woman, other than to be sympathetic and empathetic with the important females in my life and to be a generally decent human being. But my obsession and my fantasy -- which belongs to me -- is the myth of the super-sexy, super-girly girl with the high heels, the stockings, the panties, the garter belt, the corset, the bra, the earings, the big hair, the alluring fragrance, the long nails, the long lashes, the red pouty lips, too much mascara, the long nails .... she's wearing leather AND lace ....she's objectified and loves it ..... I want her and I want to be her, and to experience being the focus of so much attention and affection and desire ......

..... and yes, I know it is all (or mostly) male bullshit ..... that it can be demeaning and dehumanizing if taken too seriously ..... and that I'll never really be able to pull it off ..... and if I did .... I might not even enjoy it. It's just a fantasy. An escape. And it makes me feel good. And sometimes I almost get close.

Annaliese2010

12-06-2011, 07:01 PM

I admire, respect & adore women to no end. This world would not be worth living in if it weren't for women. I can never understand them, only guess. Aww..that's precious to me though...a constant 'tension' that drives the swirling vortex of yin/yang in an ever ascending or sometimes decending spiral depending on the couple, their personalities, the balance of their need, their compatibility & the chemistry of their desire.

I am not so naieve to think for a moment I can 'be' a woman nor do I feel a need to indulge the feminine part that indwells in me when involved with a woman whom I am attracted to, for whatever reasons. Though there's always some physical component to attraction it's not always primarily for 'looks' that I fall for a girl.

Indulging the feminine side of my mind is a kind of escape, a way of switching over to another mode of seeing, feeling, experiencing and doing thats of value...especially when my 'guy side' is really fc'n up making bad decisions or generally 'misbehaving'. LOL... But only when I'm not involved in a GG relationship cause when I am, that just doesn't happen. It's like...I become my own b*tch in lieu of a GG-relationship...which yea definitely has a sexual aspect to it. In fact if it didn't it would be valuless.

So while I certainly AM much more feminine when voluntarily allowing this side of me to surface and expand, it is not an attempt to mimic a real GG woman. I am not enthralled with clothes and all the particulars of feminine expression, though I find myself involved with it all. But the clothing, makeup, altered voice & behavior as well as altered preference in music, movies & magazines simply happen automatically on their own accord w/o much forethought. All of this is the natural sequelae that follows from a male to female transition in mental state that takes over at times...or more correctly....when the feminine mind extant in me is allowed to surface, since I am normally dominated by the male in me. But when this M2F transition unfolds, the change in manner of thinking & feeling becomes 1st principle to changes in outward appearance and behavior. Um...yea.

I've never quite understood the exagerrated interest on clothing and overriding drive to 'pass' and all that. But...Everyones life is special, valuable and bright. There are many reasons and many types of ppl with differeng backgrounds & needs. All of them just as valid as the next. Nothing to get ones panties in a bunch about, I'd say :battingeyelashes: *giggles*

169963

Asche

12-06-2011, 09:26 PM

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why?
Maybe I've become jaded from spending too much time amidst what passes for discourse in other parts of the Web, but I don't recall seeing anything in this thread that I would have called hostile. Defensive, maybe.

I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.
(Substituting "defensive" for "hostile" ....)
There's a "rhinoceros in the living room" (one of those things everyone sees but no one ever talks about) that I think plays a role.

All of us -- GM and GF alike, CD, TS, and average Joe alike -- have grown up conditioned by the message that for men to do stuff like what CDs do -- wearing women's clothes, or doing pretty much anything that is "feminine" -- is weird, shameful, etc. And no matter what we learn or do, we can never entirely rid ourselves of that message or its effects.

When we CDs hear something (regardless from whom) that triggers that message in our heads, we'll hear an attack, whether or not one was actually intended. In fact, we may completely mishear the message. (BTW, defensiveness and mishearing aren't restricted to CDs or CDing -- it happens everywhere.) It takes a lot of practicing examining oneself to learn to distinguish between really being attacked and just feeling defensive.

I think those messages also mess up the GFs in our lives. It means that they'll sometimes hear that voice that says that what CDs do is weird, shameful, etc., and they'll sometimes hear stuff CDs say as an attack, even when we don't mean it that way, or at least don't want to mean it that way.

Is this a recipe for miscommunication, or what?

Now throw in the usual impediments to communication, and the myriad additional ways people find to misunderstand one another (and take offense) on the WWW, and it's a wonder we aren't all running around murdering one another with axes all the time.