View Full Version : GG's: You don't think we understand? Well, we'd like to....
sometimes_miss
12-05-2011, 02:49 AM
I think that one of the big problems here is that you think we (crossdressers, transsexuals, whatever you want to think of us) see, is a 'glamorized' version of a woman's life, and that's what you think is all we see. I may not know what it takes to be a woman; but then, you do not know what it takes to be a man, either, which is why you're usually so /confused/amazed/surprised/outraged that we want the life that you often feel you've been 'stuck with'.
What you simply can't 'get', is that it's not something we have chosen. Do you really think anyone wants to be considered a pervert? Do you really think anyone wants to deal with the constant feeling of being in the wrong clothes every moment of the day? Do you really think anyone would choose to take on a lifestyle that requires so much more 'body maintainence', wardrobe maintainence, make up, hair care? Or even to the extent of envying a life with having a career upheaval in order to have kids, or even envy that you go through what you have so kindly labeled as 'the curse' every month for decades?
Yes, for some, it's just a 'kink'; a very temporary sexual thrill. But for a whole lot of us, we're stuck feeling like this pretty much all the time. We wake up, oddly feeling like we're in the wrong life. Doing the wrong things. Pursuing the wrong goals. Being 'pushed' into the wrong jobs, treating people the wrong way (men have to do some pretty awful things to get ahead in the world), and yes, even behaving in some ways in order to attract women, that even we know isn't right, but unfortunately for both of us, still work because that's the way you and I are still 'wired' due to our evolution.
We can see, yes we can. Even though we don't grow up as females, we can see what it's all centered on. From the moment you're self aware, you get 'pushed' into 'prepare for being a mommy' life. You get dolls for presents, and even from the moment you're born, you're put into pretty outfits and start having your hair styled in a pretty way. We understand; we see; you're made oh, so, constantly conscious of how you look. We see every woman's magazine, and what's in it. Career articles? Nope. Hobbies? Nope. Leisure time activities? Nope.
Every single thing aimed at you is:
How to be physically attractive;
That includes nearly constant updating your make up, hair style, and wardrobe, lest your mate 'lose interest'.
How to manage a mate into a romantic relationship, and how to get him to legally obligate himself financially to you for life; how to get someone to 'commit' articles, letters, or advertisements are in virtually every issue.
How to maintain family relationships.
How becoming a wife winds up to being not just a mother, but essentially 'the cook' and 'the maid' for a family for 20 to 30 years in order to raise the children 'successfully', which is what you are told almost constantly should be your primary goal in life, instead of anything else you may wish to do.
In short, you are expected to do all that for everyone else, and not pursue anything else you want.
And then of course, you'd wonder why any guy in the world would want to change places with you. The answer is, we wouldn't, at least, not if we had any choice in the matter.
It's because it's not a choice we make. At some point in our lives, whether it be before we were born or after, something happens to us which MAKES us want to dress, behave, and be treated as female, and in some cases, the desire is so strong as to make us want a female life, and everything that goes with it, because we simply feel like that's what we are supposed to be. It's no more a choice than whether we feel hungry when our bodies need nourishment, or water when we're thirsty. It's not more a choice than wanting to be warm when we're feeling cold. Or loved when we're lonely. It's not a conscious choice we get to make. Some think it's all genetic, and that something gets 'triggered' in us to make us feel this way. Others hypothesize that it's due to some traumatic event. Myself, I have the 'unified' theory that it's probably a percentage of both (and I can back that up), but how much of each, and how much of each of that, in each person's case, there's no way to know.
I'm one of the few lucky ones, if what you mean by lucky is studying every single thing I could come across for thirty years to learn why I feel this way. But I finally figured it out. The conclusion I came to wasn't a happy one; during all those years, I was always under the delusion that once you figure it all out, you get 'cured'; that when you know why the 'abnormal' feelings are there, they'll simply go away. But life doesn't work like that. All that knowledge does, is help us deal with who, and what, we are. I've learned that while I'm not what most would define as a 'true transsexual', I am stuck with many of the same feelings that they do have to live with, even if transitioning isn't a solution for my particular case. I even feel quite guilty, when talking with gay female acquaintences, because I know they envy me for being a male and having the ability to date all the women they would love to, but can't.
Women of the world, all we ask you to do, is understand a little; and give us a little slack. After all, in the past 50 years, at least in America, you've managed to open up the doors for yourselves, and gain the right, if not always the amount of respect you want, to do all the things that were previously considered only appropriate for males. In short, you've made it. No, it's not always easy, but hey, it's not really as easy as it seems for men, either. So take a pause; stand back and look at the world, and please allow us to learn, and live, as you have; and to also, be appreciated and admired, by you, as much as we appreciate and admire you. Because believe me, no man alive can begin to understand better how much trouble it is to be a woman better than we can. Sure, it's only a start; but we're willing to learn, which is far more than other men are willing to do.
You don't think we know what it takes to be a woman? Tell us. We'll listen. And we're willing to learn. And, isn't that one of the biggest things you want us to do?
Edit: this edit after reading to post #33.
O.K., I've edited this first post because of the huge number of responses, and I know not everyone would read a later response, but just respond to the first few.
So many have 'read between the lines' huge numbers of thoughts that I NEVER wrote here. I'm not angry at all! This thread was put here because it seems there are SOME women who don't understand us, despite coming here to learn. I don't know if the search function doesn't work well (perhaps it ignores locked threads, I've seen that elsewhere, and the vast majority of threads here have been locked). But it's clear that there's a lot of information that has been in old posts that is being missed, lost among all the 'what color panties are we wearing today' threads.
Example: Shenanigans mention of this, supposedly in response to my initial thread:
So, I suppose a poor female child would be really confused about her gender identity. (Hint: it doesn't work this way) I'm seeing quite a few little girls that are getting no presents and they are lucky to get some sort of hand-me-down outfit from Goodwill. Somehow, they still identify as female. I also suppose you are reading Cosmo...you should pick up a Fitness or Shape magazine. Or, even Redbook....Or, even Women's Home Journal.
Where in the world did that come from? I never said anything about female children being confused about anything. I simply wrote about what I have observed. And of course, it's a 'generalization'. It's not feasible to write down every single experience, so we group together what composes the great majority of samples examined.
And, Shenanigans, please don't get angry at me, because really, I'm trying to do something positive here.
Also, basically, please everyone, stop taking personal offense every time you read something you don't like if it's not addressed at you. It's not always all about you.
Shenanigans, this part, I'm particularly addressing this last to you. You're one of the most supportive people here. So you should be well aware that there are people who either: 1. Aren't, or 2. Simply don't know a lot of what you do, so they need as much information as well as learning how we see them, as possible; and it's not all going to be easy to take, no matter how hard we try. Like you, they may easily 'read between the lines' and see things that aren't there, like the anger Stitch saw, or perhaps things you thought I meant, but did not. Men are literal; we don't usually 'alude' to anything. That applies to CD'ers as well as other men.
Stitch
12-05-2011, 03:56 AM
What you simply can't 'get', is that it's not something we have chosen.
Actually. I do get this, and I've said it more than once on the forum. It may not have been in the main sections however. Here I'll get my post.
I can't imagine that many people would put themselves in danger or ridicule or worse if there wasn't an underlying reason for doing so, so I've always assumed that going out dressed or what not runs deeper than that. Perhaps it's a compulsion, like a moth been drawn to a flame. That burning desire to dress how they like that starts from a young age. I admire the people who are brave enough to go out how they want without worrying what others think. I realise this doesn't fit the vast spectrum of CDers, and there are probably some CDers who it is more of a attention thing, and then there are the closeted fetish dressers. When it comes to the ones who need to go out dressed once in awhile, I would imagine they are in a similar places as my boyfriend. I'm not entirely sure of my boyfriends motives for going out dressed. He's a shy and unassuming man, who'd hate the be the center of attention, especially in a negative manner. So I've always thought it must be just that thing that he has to do to feel right inside. To keep things balanced and have a sense of mental equilibrium.
I sympathise, I really do. :) I wouldn't put myself in that position for all the tea in China, but I understand, well I understand the need not necessarily the reason.
I can appreciate you're cross, and it must be very frustrating to not be understood, but there are really are GGs here at this very forum from all walks of life, with many different views and thoughts and feelings about Crossdressing. Please don't post "All you GGs just don't get it" as some of us do, really! We are as varied as you all are. We all have the things we get, we accept and the things that worry us but they do vary from GG to GG. Some of us are hurting, some of us are here because we are curious.
Just for the record, I find all the stuff pushed at us from a young age to be very hard too. I've grown up knowing that the world expects you to fill certain roles or quotas.. but I just can't bring myself to follow that way. Every time I go towards the grain of society, it goes against mine and its not comfy.
So I honestly can sympathise, but please don't be cross at women as a whole. You seem to understand yourself, and fundamentally that is what matters right?
sometimes_miss
12-05-2011, 05:43 AM
Hi stitch. I'm not cross; but a recent post here made it clear that a lot of women out there DON'T understand. Sure, after you've been here a while it's easier to figure it out, but clearly the search didn't tell 'anonymous' what she needed to know, so it just goes along that there are probably lots of silent others out there with the same questions.
TGMarla
12-05-2011, 09:09 AM
Alexa, that's a helluva post. I can certainly relate to much of what you're putting out there, too. For me, it's not a choice, really. It's more of a compulsion where I am driven to dress and emulate a woman, if only for short periods of time. I go out once in a while, mostly so I can experience what it is like to feel normal in a female mode while out and around people in a normal world situation. And like you mentioned, I may never transition, but I do feel a constant envy of women for the lives they get to lead, even while I understand that there are certainly drawbacks to womanhood as well. Sometimes I see an attractive woman and say to myself, there but for the grace of God go I; there is an example of the life I should have been living. I think you hit upon a lot of points that are spot on for myself, if not for many or most of us.
I have mostly settled these demons. There is no benefit to the constant turmoil. When one is faced with a choice of either transition or not, one must live with the decision. My decision is to remain in the life I have. And because of this, I am now content, for the most part, with the acceptance that I am and will remain a crossdresser, someone who will never be a woman, but will allow himself to emulate one as best as he can for short periods of time. And for the rest of the time, I will try not to dwell upon it all, and be the best man I can for my wife, and for the betterment of my life as a whole.
And through it all, I'll still have an eye for pretty dresses, nice hair, and killer shoes. :)
Chickhe
12-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Why can't we all just get along?... Its an information and experience gap.
Try this... as best you can, write your feelings down and post them to the internet and wait for 100 responses. Now, ask those 100 people to respond in their own words reflecting your thoughts back. How many of those responses will be exactly what you are feeling? I bet not one! And the same problem exsits with words or face to face communication.
You are better off using less communication and keeping your feelings to yourself because no one else will fully understand you and you them...at least until you both have the same experiences and knowledge and that's impossible, so don't feel bad if no one else understands you! ...and don't believe for a second you fully understand the other person.
However, to help other people learn it is good to share your experiences.
If people can get past their own feelings and just enjoy the experience we would all get along better. People on all sides of the coin get too emotional about CDing.... they make assumptions about how the other person feels....do they want to be a woman? do they think I'm a pervert?.... forget about it....just do it and learn from each other that way.
Marleena
12-05-2011, 01:21 PM
I wonder if there is a polling option available on this board? A couple of boards I have do have it. A member can create questions for polls to be voted on anonymously by other members. A little off topic, but easier to answer questions, than each of us trying to explain ourselves.:)
Patti Remick
12-05-2011, 01:37 PM
Im a lifelong CDr and I think that is one of the most misogynistic posts Ive ever read here. Stop blaming real women for YOUR problems.
Julia_in_Pa
12-05-2011, 02:20 PM
Glamorized version?
I'm pretty but hell I don't wear makeup most of the time and I prefer wearing pant suits with flats at the office.
I don't wear sexy underwear because frankly I have a large ass.
Don't count TS/IS people in this please!
most of us are far too busy living to worry about Victoria's Secret.
Julia
KellyJameson
12-05-2011, 02:35 PM
Hatred, Revenge, Blame, Fear, Anger,Ignorance. These are the problems, not men/women,christians/muslims,black/white,democrates/republicans,gay/straight,rich/poor, ect..... The list is endless.......
And the only solution is not to change others but to change yourself. Move beyond others hate and fear by not being a part of it so than you become free from it. Leave the haters,ragers,rascists,prejudiced to their own kind.
ValRom
12-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Don't count TS/IS people in this please!
Julia
Julia,
Isn't it best when we speak just for ourselves and not attempt to speak for others?
You may be TS like myself, but just as I can't speak for you --- or anyone else, it isn't right that you include me in your views on this topic or any other.
Val
Barbara Ella
12-05-2011, 02:40 PM
The key to growth is sharing. SOme sharing is all feel good, while some sharing must include the harsh feelings we all get from time to time. I can appreciate the feelings from Alexa, and dont think they represent a totally negative, nor all inclusive view of how GG view us. Some do, but that rew do not warrant a generalization, just a thought expression as has been done here. Excellent post that should get everyone talking, and that's important.
I must agree with Julia, on both sides. We are too busy living. Life is complicated, and when there are two lives to live, it gets real complicated. I find the positive support offered on this forum to far outweigh the few negative (but legitimately held) feelings, and can only thank the GG friends here who are willing to participate in life advancements.
I like Marleena's thought about a polling option. Dont think I could take one on whether you like pink or white or black panties, though. Giggles
Babes
Piora
12-05-2011, 02:40 PM
While I agree with much of what has been said here, I think this thread is getting too political. We should get back on track or it will most certainly be locked by one of the mods.
Kate Simmons
12-05-2011, 02:45 PM
Personally, I would have had no problem being a Mommy but being a Daddy is pretty cool too. Children are a gift and a privilege to be sure in any mode. They are the future. All of that other jazz notwithstanding (hair, makeup, clothing, etc.) it really comes down basically to who we are as a person and what is in our heart. That will be evident no matter what kinds of clothes we wear.;):)
Josie M
12-05-2011, 03:24 PM
Yea...I didn't respond to the anonymous GG question made recently for much the same reason. I would love to be Josie and just have it be a normal, mundane, un-eventful thing... I don't dress for sexual gratification, adrenaline rush, or fantasy....it's just an expression of me that, unfortunately, I don't get to express.
So, the "anonymous GG" seemed to be painting us all with the same brush and I just didn't feel like jumping into that one.
I've identified myself as a CD for a long time....mostly because I can only dress occasionally and I've tended to associate TG more with transsexual. Being on this thread, and going out recently for the first time in a while recently is making me re-think all this. While I worry about how other people might accept me as Josie...in many ways, I'm very comfortable expressing myself as Josie.....and I now think that makes me more TG than CD.
Nigella
12-05-2011, 03:34 PM
OK, I am ready to be hung for this, but what the heck.
Try looking closer to home before you blame just one section of society for all the imagined wrongs being done to you. Grow some b*alls, or at least use those you were born with. Get out, ignore society's prejudice of seeing a man in a dress, if you want it, go bloody get it. You have it in you, its just that you want to blame anyone but yourself.
Nigella
LilSissyStevie
12-05-2011, 03:49 PM
I really don't care what "women" think about anything. I only care what one woman thinks. In fact, it's one of the very few things I do care about. The truth is that "women" is an abstraction that doesn't have any thoughts at all. In real life the only thing that individual women share with all other women is their identity as women and they each have a different idea of what that means. Same thing with men. I haven't the slightest idea what it means to be a "man." Every man I've ever met was different. The only thing all "men" share is what we call ourselves. I only call myself a "man" because that's what I was told and I've never fully rejected the label. I also don't know what it means to be a "woman." So, I'm not trying to be a woman, either. I'm only trying to express femininity. Not someone elses, not even "womens'," conception of femininity, just mine.
*Vanessa*
12-05-2011, 04:01 PM
Well this sure went to hell in a hand-basket quickly, didn't it...
I'm with Julia on this one.
To vote ya need someone here that has a fb page to set one up.
Marleena
12-05-2011, 04:06 PM
*sneaks away slowly*
elizabethamy
12-05-2011, 04:13 PM
It's got to be very hard for any woman to understand something that we can't exactly explain to ourselves. As I've told my wife, I'm aware that when dressed I am a man in a dress, who's short on curves in the right places and with a bit of a five-o-clock shadow. If I had needed a new hobby to fill my time, I might have taken up boat-building or ultimate frisbee or even knitting. But crossdressing? Exciting and compelling as it may be, it's really not a choice. To be fair, we have to tolerate a bit of ridicule and a certain amount of bafflement from GG's; and they have to make an effort to have some compassion for those of us whose midlife obsessions seem to be more than a little bit outside the usual lines...
PretzelGirl
12-05-2011, 10:04 PM
I am going with Nigella. We tend to look at these this we do negatively and effectively handcuff ourselves. I'm not saying there aren't dangers and repercussions out there, there certainly is. But you have to figure out what you really want and grab it. If you can't go to a certain point, it is because of reasons that you realize. Once you realize them, then acceptance and calmness should be the goals.
docrobbysherry
12-05-2011, 11:43 PM
I HATE hate!
Whether it's in ME or U!
Shananigans
12-06-2011, 07:43 AM
Well, I hate to be kind of an a$$...but, here I go anyway...
Know what I hate here? The hypocrisy. I love how many members will get on a soapbox about not wanting to be generalized and then turn around and make generalizations about GGs.
I understand, love, and accept my SO...but, I guess with some posts on here that I should either a) Not even bother trying to understand/support/accept other CDs, or b) Just politely go the f*ck away because there are so many supportive and understanding GGs on the forum, but for the large part we aren't even recognized.
Talk about marginalization.
Now, what annoys me about this post...
"We can see, yes we can. Even though we don't grow up as females, we can see what it's all centered on. From the moment you're self aware, you get 'pushed' into 'prepare for being a mommy' life. You get dolls for presents, and even from the moment you're born, you're put into pretty outfits and start having your hair styled in a pretty way. We understand; we see; you're made oh, so, constantly conscious of how you look. We see every woman's magazine, and what's in it. Career articles? Nope. Hobbies? Nope. Leisure time activities? Nope."
So, I suppose a poor female child would be really confused about her gender identity. (Hint: it doesn't work this way) I'm seeing quite a few little girls that are getting no presents and they are lucky to get some sort of hand-me-down outfit from Goodwill. Somehow, they still identify as female. I also suppose you are reading Cosmo...you should pick up a Fitness or Shape magazine. Or, even Redbook....Or, even Women's Home Journal.
I think your experiences with my gender are largely a generalization, and well...I don't feel like you understand me either. But, I haven't made threads about CDs just not understanding GGs with my own personal prejudices highlighting what is or Should be understood as a mass statement for my entire gender.
I will say that I feel a little more sympathetic and understanding in the second half of your post, but I'm still kind of pissed about the generalizations.
I keep seeing so many negative threads about GGs not understanding or accepting and I wonder what the f*ck I'm doing with my SO then. But, the REALLY weird part is that accepting my SO and understanding him and this aspect of him is completely natural and without even much struggle for me. SHOCKER...I like it too!
I keep telling him that if I continue to get mad, I'll probably just get on the forum to go to FAB and to message Reine. But, there are still many people on here that I do enjoy talking to and messaging.
I used to have a wall of recent posts in the main forum, but my posts are becoming few and far between. Why? Because, I don't exactly feel welcome to post here. It's like I stumbled into the private Men Only club and no girls are allowed....as weird as that is because it's about CDing. Actually...yeah...that's a pretty accurate assessment of exactly how I feel now about the main forum.
I'm so glad that I have my SO to rant too.
I also feel bad for all the GGs here that come on this site new to all of this, and have lots of questions. I feel sorry that they are getting shot down and are being encouraged to essentially not bother. It is quite a different welcome than what I got. I had lots of questions too. Probably, because I actually wanted to understand all CDs. If you haven't noticed, I have been much more active than my SO on this site. But, it's probably just because I don't understand and secretly hate you all, right? :facepalm: Now, if I were seeing all of these negative threads about GGs when my SO first told me he was a CD, I probably would have been worried. But, he response would have probably been something like it was the other day when I was pissed off about this forum. He said, "Most of the CDs on that site that are really active probably do not share the same thoughts/opinion as most CDs." And, then, I would have left.
This is a SUPPORT SITE...GGs from all walks of life are WELCOME to come here and GET SUPPORT. This includes questions that YOU may find a little loaded. If you don't like them, don't read them. But, some of the GGs here really want to know and they are welcome to ask questions. Why? Because, this is not just a site for MTF CDs. There are MANY types of people on this forum and we are all supposed to be and should be supporting each other.
Shoulda woulda coulda though...
TxKimberly
12-06-2011, 08:32 AM
What I see here is kind of interesting.
Multiple people hurt and angry and more or less saying "You don't understand or appreciate me and what I go through."
Several lines being drawn here too. "Don't lump me in with them/you".
Shananigans, I hate to think that any GG's feel that they are not appreciated here. It has always struck me as just the opposite - so many here idolize women to the point where a woman can post pretty much anything here, to include the state tax code, and she might get page after page of praise on her post. As with any other group in society, you have your middle of the road folks and then you have the folks out on the fringes. We have some who practically worship the GG's that post here, and some that are openly hostile, apparently feeling that the forum shouldn't have GG's "intruding". For the vast majority of us though, I think that we deeply appreciate the GG's that are here, that bother to give their thoughts and feelings, and that often offer great advice on everything from fashion to helping our marriages. The VAST majority of us are deeply thankful for the GG's that come here Shananigans, and your outspoken bluntness definitely makes you one of them that we appreciate the most.
Shananigans
12-06-2011, 10:27 AM
What I see here is kind of interesting.
Multiple people hurt and angry and more or less saying "You don't understand or appreciate me and what I go through."
Several lines being drawn here too. "Don't lump me in with them/you".
Shananigans, I hate to think that any GG's feel that they are not appreciated here. It has always struck me as just the opposite - so many here idolize women to the point where a woman can post pretty much anything here, to include the state tax code, and she might get page after page of praise on her post. As with any other group in society, you have your middle of the road folks and then you have the folks out on the fringes. We have some who practically worship the GG's that post here, and some that are openly hostile, apparently feeling that the forum shouldn't have GG's "intruding". For the vast majority of us though, I think that we deeply appreciate the GG's that are here, that bother to give their thoughts and feelings, and that often offer great advice on everything from fashion to helping our marriages. The VAST majority of us are deeply thankful for the GG's that come here Shananigans, and your outspoken bluntness definitely makes you one of them that we appreciate the most.
Kimberly, I appreciate your reply. And, you are definitely one of the people on this forum that I respect and enjoy reading. However, I cannot count the posts in my mind that have isolated me as a GG in a negative way. (And, it wasn't me personally, but it was a generalization of all GGs...so, I fall into the generalizations. My favorite topics include:
1. A GG cannot understand.
2. CDs do what they do because the GGs in society have stopped dressing "like women." (Usually posted by someone wearing something like a French maid outfit or some other type of costume lol...costumes are just fine, but don't preach to me about fashion when you are in a costume...or, I might have call Stacy and Clinton on you).
3. GGs are just jealous and that's why wives/SOs get upset about CDing.
4. And, now, because you are not a man, you cannot understand men...thus, you cannot understand crossdressers.
I may not understand what it is to be TG, but I think I am fully capable of understanding that it can be a very difficult life. Not every GG thinks CDs are perverts. Some are *shockingly* on this site because they actually love their SOs and are perfectly content with the fact the they are with a CD and maybe even more.
I think MOST of the GGs on here are doing more than "giving a little slack" and "understanding a little." I think quite a few have stood by their SO (I can only think of a couple that aren't currently in a relationship with a CD or TS), and I can think of quite a few that have stood by their SO through transitioning.
So, yeah...understanding and acceptance??? You are preaching to the choir, baby. I just wish it was more of a mutual process of understanding and acceptance. Perhaps, understanding and accepting that ANYONE who found out their SO is a CD will have questions. If you had no questions, then you don't give a f*ck about the person you are in a relationship with. So, how about some understanding and acceptance that people who care have questions??? Some of these questions may be touchy issues and may offend some CDs. In my tiny female brain, I am capable of understanding that not all CDs are into men while dressed. But, I am interested (as a bisexual person) to know how that on and off switch works. When I was 13 and about to kill myself over my sexuality, I would have LOVED an on/off switch. So, I feel free to ask those questions if I want to ask them. Other questions/responses that may make it seem that we think you are "perverted" is all the interest in panty threads and minutia of clothing details. I kind of just shrug and say, "Yeah, well their CDs....what do you expect? Them to hate female clothes?" But, I can understand why a GG would ask these questions and want some kind of explanation.
I get so damned sad when I see posts that are anonymous (from both CDs and GGs)...why do we feel like we can't talk to each other? Someone posted to me the other day and said they thought it was awesome I could jump right in with the CDs and talk about dresses and whatever. It hadn't really occurred to me that maybe that was a bit strange.
Basically, I think understanding and acceptance is a two-way street. The GGs on this forum have already made a big step on trying to understand by being on here.
But, thinking of posts about GGs from the past couple weeks...I would not recommend other CDs to recommend this site to their SO if they want it to gain favor in their CDing. I just wouldn't. Maybe in a few weeks...maybe not.
And, then, starting a thread saying that I can't understand CDs because CDs are men...and, then, ending in CDs are best equipped to understand women. (?!?) It just rubs me the wrong way.
"I may not know what it takes to be a woman; but then, you do not know what it takes to be a man, either, which is why you're usually so /confused/amazed/surprised/outraged that we want the life that you often feel you've been 'stuck with'." "Because believe me, no man alive can begin to understand better how much trouble it is to be a woman better than we can."
The above quotes are contradictions. You can understand us, but we can't understand you, but you urge us just to try. I'm a little miffed.
(Kimberly, I know I say "you" on here when I am talking about the OP).
Dana7
12-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Women of the world, all we ask you to do, is understand a little; and give us a little slack. After all, in the past 50 years, at least in America, you've managed to open up the doors for yourselves, and gain the right, if not always the amount of respect you want, to do all the things that were previously considered only appropriate for males. In short, you've made it. No, it's not always easy, but hey, it's not really as easy as it seems for men, either. So take a pause; stand back and look at the world, and please allow us to learn, and live, as you have; and to also, be appreciated and admired, by you, as much as we appreciate and admire you. Because believe me, no man alive can begin to understand better how much trouble it is to be a woman better than we can. Sure, it's only a start; but we're willing to learn, which is far more than other men are willing to do.
You don't think we know what it takes to be a woman? Tell us. We'll listen. And we're willing to learn. And, isn't that one of the biggest things you want us to do?
Well spoken, Lexi! :hugs:
And, then, starting a thread saying that I can't understand CDs because CDs are men...and, then, ending in CDs are best equipped to understand women. (?!?) It just rubs me the wrong way.
"I may not know what it takes to be a woman; but then, you do not know what it takes to be a man, either, which is why you're usually so /confused/amazed/surprised/outraged that we want the life that you often feel you've been 'stuck with'." "Because believe me, no man alive can begin to understand better how much trouble it is to be a woman better than we can."
The above quotes are contradictions. You can understand us, but we can't understand you, but you urge us just to try. I'm a little miffed.
Shenanigans, I don't think that Lexi was directing this rant at you. By far, you have proven yourself to be one of the most forthright, supportive and understanding GGs regarding CDing that I have seen.
Quite the contrary, I feel like the OP was addressing some of the posts on this site by GGs who can do nothing more than complain about their CDers. Posts whose air is condescending, critical, and closed-minded. There are plenty of GGs like that out there, and most of them are not even on this site. In fact most of them will never come close to a site like this because they don't want to understand.
I personally want to thank you Shannon, for understanding. Thank you for supporting. Thank you for caring. And thank you for just being there. You are quite clearly not the kind of GG who Lexi was referring to here.
Kaitlyn Michele
12-06-2011, 11:53 AM
You cannot demand acceptance and understanding. You earn it.
docrobbysherry
12-06-2011, 11:54 AM
Calm down, Shannon! I can see you're very frustrated at the moment. But, think about it. For the MOST PART, we're men here! And, u know how simple, pig headed, and set in our thinking we r! Well, changing our clothes DOESN'T change that for most of us!
Altho I feel the same way u do about many of the negative posts here, I can at least understand where MOST of the posters r coming from. Because I'm a man, too! Whether or not I agree with them.
However, posts by u, Reine, and other GGs often catch me completely by surpise! I KNOW I don't understand females or how u think! And, I believe most other CDs here r the same. Whether they admit it or not! So, in that context your posts r ALL invaluable here! Because without them we'd be forced to guess or speculate about GG's points of view! And, in MY experience, that means we'd be WRONG most of the time!
So, DON'T let a small minority here discourage u from enlightening the rest of us that need and appreciate your participation! And, in the long run here, you'll learn more about how men think! Whether u like it or not!
Shananigans
12-06-2011, 12:06 PM
Quite the contrary, I feel like the OP was addressing some of the posts on this site by GGs who can do nothing more than complain about their CDers. Posts whose air is condescending, critical, and closed-minded. There are plenty of GGs like that out there, and most of them are not even on this site.
I can't speak for the Anonymous GG or any other GG that you might be alluding to, but I can say that many GGs on this site come for support for a reason. Some of things that they are struggling with are not directly the CDing, but things that may be manifestations of CDing behavior. I find some of the struggles deeply disturbing...and, for a few GGs, I am surprised that they can even be part of this site. Their stories aren't on the main forum, but a lot of pain is sometimes transferred over. I do wish that some CDs would understand that though you might be a good person, not every CD is a good person. It's like this for everyone (CD, GG, TS, blah blah). But, when you are a bad person and you are a CD, the CDing gets blamed as the direct cause as to why you are "bad." I understand this. But, what many CDs see is an attack on all CDs with little understanding to say, "Hmm...I think I can read more deeply into why this person is upset...I think I see something here." Instead, it's just that all GGs hate CDs and GTFO of the main forum.
It doesn't leave much reinforcement to try to understand.
And, I know Lexi did not direct this at me personally...but, I did take it to be addressed to GGs and the parts that I quoted basically told me that no GG can get CDs, but a CD is some how more efficiently equipped to understand a GG. I don't understand.
And, I do thank you for recognizing my support...but, there are a ton of GGs on here that are supportive. The ones that are hurting and angry usually have a very good right to be. But, at this rate, these stories will remain to other parts of the forum and between PMs, because there isn't much compassion or understanding in that this anger might come from a very founded place.
I see a lot of anger posted from CDs that their SO just won't accept their CDing...but, I also like to see what is left out of these stories. Most GGs aren't just evil little devils wanting to smash the CD for wearing women's clothes...a lot of the anger is from something much deeper and well-founded. But, the easiest thing to blame is CDing. And, it's not just the SOs that says it's the CDing...it's also the CDs...it's much easier to rest the blame on the CDing instead of getting into the icky details that might make themselves look like a bad person and pretty much not anything like how a woman would behave.
I do agree with Lexi that I wish there was more understanding...but, again, it's a two-way street. As much as she feels CDs aren't understood, I feel that most CDs on this site haven't the foggiest what an SO or a GG may be going through. And, you asked me in the OP to fill you in...well, there you go. Maybe you will understand where some of the GGs anger is coming from...maybe not.
Anyway, I have always enjoyed Lexi's posts, so perhaps I am just reading into a wrong tone...reading these quotes in the wrong way. There's a lot going on with that right now on this forum. I do want to stress though that if you are wanting to understand the GGs on this site, you will have to understand that a lot of the pain goes way beyond a surface level of just the dressing. I can't think of one GG that has written about just the surface level of things being the problem, and I creep on Loved Ones a lot. (lol) But, I see a lot of CDs just attributing it to the surface level things by saying GGs are just jealous of their looks or feel their femininity is threatened. If you (I'm using "you" generally) honestly believe that the level of hurt that most of the GGs go through is just because you look good in a dress...you are either in denial or incredibly stupid. The clothes are just the surface just as the clothes are just the surface for you (Lexi). So, that's what I feel has to be understood about the GGs that are SOs of CDs and why it seems like "they don't get it."
Dana7
12-06-2011, 12:41 PM
And, I do thank you for recognizing my support...but, there are a ton of GGs on here that are supportive.
I do recognize that many of the GGs on this site are supportive. I appreciate them too.
:)
Most GGs aren't just evil little devils wanting to smash the CD for wearing women's clothes...a lot of the anger is from something much deeper and well-founded. But, the easiest thing to blame is CDing.
...I do want to stress though that if you are wanting to understand the GGs on this site, you will have to understand that a lot of the pain goes way beyond a surface level of just the dressing. ...So, that's what I feel has to be understood about the GGs that are SOs of CDs and why it seems like "they don't get it."
I agree with you here. The conflicts that surround CDing may be symptomatic of much deeper conflicts in the relationship that have nothing to do with CDing. Please see my post:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?164992-Told-the-wife&p=2677733&highlight=#post2677733
The OP reads well enough if the over-generalized concepts are taken instead as reflecting Lexi's personal views (I'm taking a huge liberty here, Lexi - feel free to correct) AND you take the selective focus on cliched aspects of women's upbringing as merely a prefix to the comment on not wanting to exchange roles. In turn, that can be read as a commentary on the theme of replacing or threatening women's femininity (i.e., by speaking to the unspoken, assumed threat), but I doubt that was the point. This theme or approach was, unfortunately, reinforced by taking a similar tack on the gay friends comment. Still, the rest of the post is taken up by a plea in two parts: 1) I can't help it, 2) please understand and tell me. The plea was the point. Everything else was intended as a lead-in, if unintentionally inflammatory.
Whew.
I can only speak for myself. I can't help dressing. I'm not entirely sure why I have the need, though I'm slowly figuring it out. I have no desire whatsoever to imitate women per se, as in I'm one thing, they are another, and this is a costume affair where I have some measurable "looks like" goal. Something in me, that is a native part of me, belongs in female clothes. And while I want to physically present such that I don't look like a complete buffoon because the world is bicameral when it comes to gender, that isn't the same as imitating. I'm not interested in changing my behavior so much as letting what's in come out. I don't have any thoughts whatsoever of role switching or anything of that ilk.
What I DO need from women as it relates to my TG life, and typically get from my wife, is education on presentation and the related mechanics.
Lea
Ashley_Marie
12-06-2011, 02:25 PM
Well, I hate to be kind of an a$$...but, here I go anyway...
:clap:
While I'm not a GG I think Shananigans post hits the nail on the head. Everyone has questions and is searching for answers. CamilleLeon is one lucky person to have a SO like Shananigans.
Acastina
12-06-2011, 02:48 PM
Alexa, that's a helluva post. I can certainly relate to much of what you're putting out there, too. For me, it's not a choice, really. It's more of a compulsion where I am driven to dress and emulate a woman, if only for short periods of time. I go out once in a while, mostly so I can experience what it is like to feel normal in a female mode while out and around people in a normal world situation. And like you mentioned, I may never transition, but I do feel a constant envy of women for the lives they get to lead, even while I understand that there are certainly drawbacks to womanhood as well. Sometimes I see an attractive woman and say to myself, there but for the grace of God go I; there is an example of the life I should have been living. I think you hit upon a lot of points that are spot on for myself, if not for many or most of us.
I have mostly settled these demons. There is no benefit to the constant turmoil. When one is faced with a choice of either transition or not, one must live with the decision. My decision is to remain in the life I have. And because of this, I am now content, for the most part, with the acceptance that I am and will remain a crossdresser, someone who will never be a woman, but will allow himself to emulate one as best as he can for short periods of time. And for the rest of the time, I will try not to dwell upon it all, and be the best man I can for my wife, and for the betterment of my life as a whole.
And through it all, I'll still have an eye for pretty dresses, nice hair, and killer shoes. :)
I agree that Alexa has hit a lot of big buttons, but so did you. It took me years to realize that the emotions I felt around attractive women were much more envy than lust (gotta keep those deadly sins distinct...), and there is that inner sadness and longing that's just there all the time. I experience no holidays, no vacations, no days off from that complex web of feelings.
Thank you for a fine statement of coming to terms and getting on with one's precious years. More of my song lyrics:
As the hand of fate
Takes the gift of time
There's little we can do
But marvel at the mystery
We often misconstrue...
I wonder if there is a polling option available on this board? A couple of boards I have do have it. A member can create questions for polls to be voted on anonymously by other members. A little off topic, but easier to answer questions, than each of us trying to explain ourselves.:)
A good idea. A lot of the news and politics threads I read have "thumbs up" or "recommend" response options.
I have to say, though, that I don't quite understand some of the hostile responses to what Alexa laid out in considerable detail. I don't read her as imposing a stereotypical attitude onto ALL women, and certainly not misogynistic, but there is a clear and common female skepticism about CD/TG, that it's a fantasized view of femaleness being a cure to all ills or a magical state of bliss. I first heard this from my dear late mother: "It's not easy being a woman". Well, duh, just look around. Being easier is not really the issue. Being more real, more authentic feeling, regardless of the burdens we might bear living as either gender, is what it is to me.
As for choice vs compulsion, I am of the school of thought (after 35 years of studying the phenomenon) that it's a compulsion caused by fetal brain "wiring". There are simply too many of us, with reasonably similar experiences of it, for it to be a random behavioral choice like political views or favorite sports. Because "choice" implies other, non-compulsive options. Compulsion will trump choice every time, IMHO. How many of you have chosen to purge and be done with it, only to find compulsion in bed with you in the morning?
suchacutie
12-06-2011, 04:34 PM
Ok...here I am throwing a wrench in the works as usual: My wife is completely supportive, and I have the highest respect for those here who are supportive and who tell us their take on issues in an attempt to broaden our perspectives. thank you so very much...
BUT
When it comes down to it, the GGs here who question our motives, who question our positions, who question our actions, who can't comprehend some of our statements here, and those who seem completely unsupportive...they are the people from whom we can all learn so very much!!! I want to know what they are thinking. I want them to make me think about the way I act in either gender. I want them to make me rethink my committment to Tina. I want them to ask me to explain how I feel and what I think because in that way I help to clarify my lives!
Why doesn't it bother me if I am accused or seemingly attacked (more about the seemingly later)? The fact is that no one can understand us without detailed communication with us. I want that communication, especially from those SOs who are scared, confused, and/or angry. Being transgendered is not a crime, and helping people understand who we are helps me to understand who I am. Everyone here needs support, and that includes GGs who come here desparately trying to understand how their lives have changed.
And the "seemingly attacked" issue. Words without body language and tonal inflection are easily misinterpreted. There have been a number of posts recently where the initial post was interpreted as a bit of an affront when the OP had not intended that at all. Again, one post is just a few words and are given in a certain context. Change that context and the words can have a completely different meaning. Thus, I try to look upon what might be sharp language as a set of words through a different lense. Again, this is a support group!
After all, the GGs are the ultimate exemplar of who part of us is trying to be, and trying to work this out within the framework of a lifetime commitment between two people requires a tremendously deep understanding of that commitment and all the facets of interpersonal communication. When it all breaks down is where we can have the biggest impact!
As alway, just my 2 cents :)
tina
Jessica86
12-06-2011, 05:04 PM
Also, basically, please everyone, stop taking personal offense every time you read something you don't like if it's not addressed at you. It's not always all about you.
This is what most people in these "hot" discussions need to understand.
I agree whole heartedly with the post. I know there are those like you, who feel they have been deprived of a life they should have had. There are other categories of dressers as well. What I believe is some are looking for help, thinking "This can't be how it is." Then, they come here, see it is how it is....and they just can not accept it. If that's so, they should just close the browser window, and be done. Nobody on either side can learn anything from someone who refuses to teach or be taught, but always has something to say.
Alice Torn
12-06-2011, 06:35 PM
I think that there will never be mucm real understanding. Most gg's are very social, have many friends, and many male admirers. Not enough solitude and introspection. Most men, including CD's, live lives of quiet desperation", and die with their music still in them! Men are more loners, and have few close friends, don' have women constsntly asking them out, or getting hit on by GG's.
i am noticing men are getting hit on by men, more than by GG's. So, we have opposite realities going on! The CD man, living a lonely, often stark life socially , fantasizes being in demand, and admired, like most GG's. The GG does not have enough alone time, and of not drawing male attentio. For her, it is a rainforest of male attention, while for the lonesome male, it is usually a dry desert socially. of course, ther are always the exceptions. Good thread Alexa!
Shananigans
12-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Example: Shenanigans mention of this, supposedly in response to my initial thread:
Where in the world did that come from? I never said anything about female children being confused about anything. I simply wrote about what I have observed. And of course, it's a 'generalization'. It's not feasible to write down every single experience, so we group together what composes the great majority of samples examined.
And, Shenanigans, please don't get angry at me, because really, I'm trying to do something positive here.
Also, basically, please everyone, stop taking personal offense every time you read something you don't like if it's not addressed at you. It's not always all about you.
Shenanigans, this part, I'm particularly addressing this last to you. You're one of the most supportive people here. So you should be well aware that there are people who either: 1. Aren't, or 2. Simply don't know a lot of what you do, so they need as much information as well as learning how we see them, as possible; and it's not all going to be easy to take, no matter how hard we try. Like you, they may easily 'read between the lines' and see things that aren't there, like the anger Stitch saw, or perhaps things you thought I meant, but did not. Men are literal; we don't usually 'alude' to anything. That applies to CD'ers as well as other men.
Lexi, that comment was in response to this quote by you, "We can see, yes we can. Even though we don't grow up as females, we can see what it's all centered on. From the moment you're self aware, you get 'pushed' into 'prepare for being a mommy' life. You get dolls for presents, and even from the moment you're born, you're put into pretty outfits and start having your hair styled in a pretty way. We understand; we see; you're made oh, so, constantly conscious of how you look. We see every woman's magazine, and what's in it. Career articles? Nope. Hobbies? Nope. Leisure time activities? Nope."
I take this quote as you trying to understand the development of my gender identity and implicating from this "development" why crossdressers focus on what they do.
My point was that this is not the case. Plenty of GGs develop their identity as female without a parade of dolls and Cosmo magazines.
You say, "You don't think we know what it takes to be a woman? Tell us. We'll listen. And we're willing to learn. And, isn't that one of the biggest things you want us to do?" And, when I tell you, you say that I am taking personal offense and get sour with me. Well, it's my gender and when you are titling things to all GGs and telling me what I can and cannot understand, you should expect that some GGs are going to little bit angry.
It doesn't take an advanced search function to see the past 1 or 2 pages of threads that have been posted on this forum...many with GG in the title.
But, really you are probably right in saying, "I may not know what it takes to be a woman; but then, you do not know what it takes to be a man, either, which is why you're usually so /confused/amazed/surprised/outraged that we want the life that you often feel you've been 'stuck with'." And, when you say, "What you simply can't 'get', is that it's not something we have chosen."
I guess I simply "can't get it." Maybe, I'm taking it personally...but, I'm a GG. I AM THE AUDIENCE THAT YOU ARE ADDRESSING TOWARDS! You can't address all GGs and then take it all back to just a few. From your original post, I gather that I "just can't get it." Am I wrong?"
It's so much easier just to say you're all right and that it's a null and void in trying to understand/come to terms with it all.
You are all such complex creatures that I cannot possibly come to comprehend. (That's called sarcasm).
I have my SO and she's all I really need to accept/understand anyway. So, done.
EDIT:
When you put all GGs in a title, I look down and say, "Hmm...was I born with a vagina? Okay this applies to me." You can't apply it to all the GGs on the forum and then get angry when you are basically telling the supportive GGs on here that they cannot understand. Did I take personal offense? Yes. And, you addressed it personally to me. And, you asked me to "help you understand," and I tried...then, it made everyone angry. Well, when you say GG, you are talking to me. If you say something that is about GGs that I don't agree with and it pisses me off, you get angry Shannon. And, I'm not happy with this forum as of late. And, no one liked what a lot of the other GGs had to say either in the other threads that are RECENT on the main forum. So, I'll go piss off. Edit this as you will. But, those are my somewhat lessons that you asked for on being a GG.
Class dismissed.
EDIT EDIT:
Do you know how everyone gets mad and says to GGs "you are painting with a broad brush." Well, I'm a minority on this forum and I can't get a whole parade of people to talk about broad brush stroking. But, I'm going to stand alone and say that it's not cool. And, if it can be brought up on other threads, it can be brought up by me in regards to my gender.
Tamara Croft
12-06-2011, 07:40 PM
I wonder if there is a polling option available on this board?
No because I disabled it for the simple fact, MTF CD's (and I checked the stats and it was only them, not GG's, not FTM's, not TS's) wouldn't stop voting in polls not created for them and ruined them. Polls will not be put back on.
Marleena
12-06-2011, 07:42 PM
No because I disabled it for the simple fact, MTF CD's (and I checked the stats and it was only them, not GG's, not FTM's, not TS's) wouldn't stop voting in polls not created for them and ruined them. Polls will not be put back on.
Thank you, I understand then.
TxKimberly
12-06-2011, 07:54 PM
Thank you, I understand then.
Tamara - we have had our ups and downs - you might think well of me at this point or might think that I am a complete idiot (I certainly do!) - I am honestly not sure. I have to ask though - in the end who is really responsible for the poll problem? The idiots that dont read every post or even every OP before they vote, or the idiots that post polls demanding that only certain people are allowed to respond despite the overwhelming proof that it is not feasible to demand that only one small section of this forum respond to a given poll?
Are you SURE that it doesn't make better sense to bring the polls back and just make it clear that it is not an option to restrict a poll to only a small group among our majority?
PS - I think that even I once made the mistake of starting of poll and asking for only GG's to respond - NOT realistic!
Love ya - mean it!
Tamara Croft
12-06-2011, 08:35 PM
No they aint coming back, they cause more issues and more work than you could imagine. You'd have to enforce a rule to stop members asking certain members only to post, cus let's face it, no one reads the rules.... not until they are slapped by them... so that's more work, then there's the people who just vote for voting sake and have never posted on the board... it's just not gonna happen... too much work thinking about it :eek: And I love ya too :hugs: (you're probably the only one who does)
sometimes_miss
12-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Lexi, that comment was in response to this quote by you, "We can see, yes we can. Even though we don't grow up as females, we can see what it's all centered on. From the moment you're self aware, you get 'pushed' into 'prepare for being a mommy' life. You get dolls for presents, and even from the moment you're born, you're put into pretty outfits and start having your hair styled in a pretty way. We understand; we see; you're made oh, so, constantly conscious of how you look. We see every woman's magazine, and what's in it. Career articles? Nope. Hobbies? Nope. Leisure time activities? Nope."
I take this quote as you trying to understand the development of my gender identity and implicating from this "development" why crossdressers focus on what they do.
My point was that this is not the case. Plenty of GGs develop their identity as female without a parade of dolls and Cosmo magazines.[/quote]
Nowhere did I write that this is where females get their female identity from. You took the quoted statement incorrectly; it wasn't meant to declare how girls get their gender identity. It was meant to describe the socialization of girls and how it pressures you into a role without taking into consideration your other desires.
You say, "You don't think we know what it takes to be a woman? Tell us. We'll listen. And we're willing to learn. And, isn't that one of the biggest things you want us to do?" And, when I tell you, you say that I am taking personal offense and get sour with me. Well, it's my gender and when you are titling things to all GGs and telling me what I can and cannot understand, you should expect that some GGs are going to little bit angry.
It doesn't take an advanced search function to see the past 1 or 2 pages of threads that have been posted on this forum...many with GG in the title.
What's in the title of a thread doesn't indicate who is posting in it. There are so many men here using female names and using female pronouns, and trying so hard to write in ways women do, that without a program, you often can't tell who the players are. Example; Where on your avatar or name area does it state that you are GG? Nowhere. And don't tell me to look at the picture, because users can use any picture they like as an avatar, unless someone complains about it.
But, really you are probably right in saying, "I may not know what it takes to be a woman; but then, you do not know what it takes to be a man, either, which is why you're usually so /confused/amazed/surprised/outraged that we want the life that you often feel you've been 'stuck with'." And, when you say, "What you simply can't 'get', is that it's not something we have chosen."
I guess I simply "can't get it." Maybe, I'm taking it personally...but, I'm a GG. I AM THE AUDIENCE THAT YOU ARE ADDRESSING TOWARDS! You can't address all GGs and then take it all back to just a few. From your original post, I gather that I "just can't get it." Am I wrong?"
The thing is, you're one of the few that does seem to 'get it'. But then again, common discussion rarely includes the word 'some' as a quantifier. It's not for 'a few'. Most women don't understand crossdressers; I'd say >99%. Seeing as lots of us don't even understand ourselves, I'd consider that an accurate statement. Or do you disagree on that?
It's so much easier just to say you're all right and that it's a null and void in trying to understand/come to terms with it all.
You are all such complex creatures that I cannot possibly come to comprehend. (That's called sarcasm).
Sarcasm really isn't very productive, so I'll avoid it.
I have my SO and she's all I really need to accept/understand anyway. So, done.
EDIT:
When you put all GGs in a title, I look down and say, "Hmm...was I born with a vagina? Okay this applies to me." You can't apply it to all the GGs on the forum and then get angry when you are basically telling the supportive GGs on here that they cannot understand. Did I take personal offense? Yes. And, you addressed it personally to me. And, you asked me to "help you understand," and I tried...then, it made everyone angry. Well, when you say GG, you are talking to me. If you say something that is about GGs that I don't agree with and it pisses me off, you get angry Shannon. And, I'm not happy with this forum as of late. And, no one liked what a lot of the other GGs had to say either in the other threads that are RECENT on the main forum. So, I'll go piss off. Edit this as you will. But, those are my somewhat lessons that you asked for on being a GG.
Stitch thought I was angry too; I really have no idea why you think that. But you sure seem rather ticked off about the whole thing. Why?
Shannon, it's a discussion forum. People aren't always going to agree on things, and they aren't always going to be happy with other's opinions. No one told you to 'piss off'. So far, all I've learned is that SOME women get mad when they misinterpret what I wrote, but there's not a lot I can do about that.
So I'd rather not get into a tag match discussing how my posts are going to be misinterpreted. If people wish to read things into my posts that aren't there, and ignore things that are there, I can't stop them from doing that, and then, of course, they wind up responding to something I never wrote. Oh yes; and, according to Barbara and Alan Pease, genuine women tend speak that way; I think it was called indirect speech communication, where things are implied, as opposed to how males use direct speech. And there's nothing inherently wrong with either, as long as both parties are using the same style. Problem is, during intersexual communication, we rarely do. It seems not much is to be gained from this. Please close the thread, Tamara.
Tamara Croft
12-06-2011, 08:46 PM
Not nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it?
Thread closed.
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