DES sons

[Annie M]

Ive been reading about Diethylstilbestrol and specifically about DES sons. To long of an explanation for this form but those interested might look at check out Femulate.org and Wikipedia. I know for myself it was an amazing revelation I actually fit the description all to well.

[Paula_56]

There has always been a curiosity as why I am
transgendered. I read about, Kline-Felter syndrome, AIS, CAS and the
different inter-sex conditions but none of them seem to fit. I just
felt, that there was some physiological root to my GID. My sense of
being female, is just too strong and distinct for it to be a learned
behavior. Deep down I know the reason I am GID is not important, but
the curiosity as too why I am transgender is strong.
I was born in 1959 the height of DES usage. The advertisement I saw on the web
used the term “routine prophylaxis in all pregnancies”. Which means
general preventive measure for all pregnancies. As you see in the Ad,
they were vitamin coated, give these to all your Mom’s they will have
healthier babies was there message. They were passing this stuff out
like vitamins! The trouble is a fetus would be exposed to estrogen
levels several thousand times considered normal.


My mother was 40 years old when pregnant with me. All though she is
gone now and I can’t ask her, there are too many clues pointing toward
her use of DES, Starting with the fact that whenever she spoke of her
pregnancy with me, the conversation included terms like “high risk”
“miscarriage” “birth defects”, I remember her saying my Dr was worried
about me have a baby at 40 years old. Another clue, I was born with
un-descended an testicle which is typical of DES boys. Then if you
ever heard of digit ratio:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200506/sexuality-your-telltale-fingertips
My ring finger is equal in length to my index finger an indicator of
exposure to estrogen in the womb.

It was just an ah-ha moment for me and provided some closure to a
question that troubled all my life.
We all have the gift of being transgendered; I believe there are hosts
of reasons way we are. What’s most important is realizing that it is
not a character flaw but variance in human beings that makes some of
us different, unique, and beautiful

[noeleena]

Hi,

This of cause is one of a few drugs given around that time, & we have looked at many cases with in 3 of the fourms im on tho intersexed it did not effect myself tho born in 1947 so missed those , yet there were or are no records for my self that can be labled towards my self being different tho i may find some thing as i have been given a lead today that i may be able to ether see or have records concerning my birth & first 6 years of childhood allmost 7 that are blocked from my memory. all i know i was in the hospital a lot,

so i may yet find out, another interesting find.

...noeleena...

Many drugs have & are effecting people in ways that were not understood back then . so is now coming out .

[gabimartini]

Thanks, Annie, for sharing this. For a long time I did research in order to find a more scientific explanation to transgenderism. Unable to find anything conclusive, I eventually gave up the search. Though this does shed some new light, at least for me, it matters little now. I realized that no matter what, the findings would often point towards "cause", but it is "effect" that has me feeling the way I do. Regardless of the reasons, there's not much I can do about my transgenderism. Explanations may provide closure, but are far from giving me comfort.


We all have the gift of being transgendered;

Sorry, Paula, but do you have the return address? I don't wish to keep my gift.

[Julogden]

I've wondered about this too. My mom is gone now so I can't ask her. I was born in 1951, so the timing is right, and my mom may have had fears regarding carrying me to full term, as she lost triplet daughters who were born prematurely about three years before I was born. And I was born with undescended testes, one of which eventually descended, which is typical of Diethylstilbestrol sons.

Carol

[meri]

Annie,
Thanks for posting this. My mother had a stillborn girl in 1950 or 51. I was born in 52. They had good medical care for the day, so, it's entirely possible that she was given DES to stabilize her pregnancy with me. Stillborns create a lot of stress in a mother and highly motivates them to "fix" the problem. Doctors were Gods in the 50's, so had her doc offered here DES to insure her next pregnancy went well, I have not doubt that she would have happily taken it. In my case, this is a likely scenario.

At one level, I am PO'd, however, at a deeper level, I accept the cards that were dealt to me and will do my best to make lemonade. This does go a long way to explain why from a biological perspective and gives me some comfort.

My older brother was more aggressive, deeply into sports, played football in school, earned a "letter", had lots of girlfriends, extroverted, etc., etc. Would I want that life, would I want to have been that way? At this point, no, I am as I am and would not want to undo myself. However, had I started with the same hormone wash he had as an fetus, then I suppose I would not have known the difference and would have grown up as what we commonly call around here, "a jock" yuck!

[elizabethamy]

I knew I was a DES son long before I became a crossdresser, or to whatever destination this journey is taking me. It was startling to find that DES not only is the probable cause of my gender issues, but also of every medical problem I've had in my life. I'm a poster boy for what the stuff can do to you. You'll find that there isn't a lot of research on DES sons, which is understandable because what DES did to the daughters was so striking and requiring immediate action. It took a while for them to notice us. There's a yahoo group DES-sons international, and a website desaction.org that links to the research and that explains a lot more about it.

In my travels, I learned that Laura, founder of Laura's Playground, is also a DES son.

The most famous study showed that one-third(!!!) of DES sons self-identifies as having gender issues. Wow.

Somehow it's comforting to know there's a "cause," I guess, but I second also the idea that many of my better qualities are also probably due to that drug.

Kurt Vonnegut said we are all just a mixture of potent chemicals...

[Karren H]

I don't know what my mother took.. I'd always assumed she was abducted by aliens..

[elizabethamy]

Karren, you're the best! My mother was probably abducted by those very same aliens, given her personality, but she was popping those DES bills while on the spaceship.

[LeaP]

I share the curiosity, but there are no records and no-one to ask any longer. My mother had 10 pregnancies and 5 children. Her childbearing years ran right through the heaviest DES years (late 1940's through early 1960's) and I know she was always under a doctor's care.

Lea

[LilSissyStevie]

My mother took DES while pregnant with me but have no idea if that is "the" cause of my being a pansy. A contributing factor maybe. How can you ever know?

[KellyJameson]

I have a half brother who is twelve years older than me and his testes never descended. He has been taking testosterone since he was fourteen. Suffers from osteoporosis, has no body hair with very feminine facial features and is 5' 3'' tall. Mother was being given synthetic estrogen to prevent miscarriage.

As a child I had very feminine facial features and looked like a girl until puberty but for me it has been the psychological aspects but have escaped the health consequences that afflict my brother. Emotionally I have very little in common with 99% of the men I have met in life and this was years after my mother stopped using synthetic estrogen. Whatever the reasons I'm very glad because it helped me to escape many of the traps that lock men into roles that cause them so much unhappiness.

[Annie M]

I never fit the typical boy thing either. I remember sitting waiting for my mom at the Dr office and the receptionist thinking I was a little girl. That happened a lot! All the men in my family my dad and my cousins were all 6'3" + and over 200# big strong guys. Me well 5' 11" about 165. not the football type... They threw balls around I drew pictures. I paid attention to what the girls wore and was envious when they started to develop and I didn't. I didn't get to be boy and I didn't get to be a girl! But I can draw pretty well! For me taking hormones has always been a good experience. I have developed the small breasts I always somehow felt were just missing. The long hair just felt more natural. I've tried to fit in where I can. I don't feel maladjusted just in between. I guess Im more of a crossbodyer than a crossdresser.... LOL
After reading all the posts so far I think we have learned these are the cards we were dealt, so make the best of it.

[Julia_in_Pa]

I'm intersexed.

My mother took DES during her pregnancy.

It caused me to have fallopian tube and ovaries along with male genitalia.

If DES is most likely the cause of this then DES could certainly have caused issues with a notable number of you.


Julia

[Launa]

My mother always wished she had a girl. She got me instead. Maybe that has something to do with my CDing...

[Loveday]

The bit about the ring finger caught my eye, I did ask my mother long ago about DES but she said no. The problem is she was so ill that she may have not wanted to admit it. Their is a vast difference between my sister who was born later and myself. I have to check this out concerning other health matters. I was really sick alot as a child, the family joke is that I had to visit the doctor every two weeks.

[ReineD]

My mother took DES during her pregnancy.

It caused me to have fallopian tube and ovaries along with male genitalia.

Perhaps your condition is not caused by DES. Here is an article substantiated by research that shows the extent of DES effects on sons. An excerpt follows the link:

http://www.cdc.gov/des/consumers/about/effects_sons.html




Non-Cancerous Epididymal Cysts: The most consistent research finding for DES Sons indicates that they have an increased risk for non-cancerous epididymal cysts, which are growths on the testicles (Bibbo, 1977; Gill, 1979; Conley, 1983; Niculescu, 1985; Wilcox, 1995). In one study, 21% of DES Sons had non-cancerous epididymal cysts compared with 5% of unexposed men (Gill, 1979).


Other Genital Abnormalities: Whether DES increases the risk for other genital abnormalities in men remains unclear. A few studies have reported that DES Sons experience a greater likelihood of being born with undescended testicles (cryptorchidism), a misplaced opening of the penis (hypospadias), or a smaller than normal penis (microphallus). These studies estimated that 15%-32% of DES Sons experience one or more of these structural differences compared with 5%-8% of unexposed men (Gill, 1979; Wilcox, 1995). Other studies, however, have not identified an increased risk of structural differences (Leary, 1984; Vessey, 1983). Because findings have been inconsistent, researchers cannot say with certainty that DES causes these types of genital abnormalities in DES-exposed men.


Infertility: DES Sons are not at an increased risk for infertility. Some DES Sons have been concerned that DES exposure might be linked to infertility. Although one study found a lower sperm count in men exposed to DES compared with unexposed men (Gill, 1979), a 40-year follow-up study of DES Sons found no increased risk of infertility among men exposed to DES before birth (Wilcox, 1995).


Your description of having both gonads (ovaries & testes) was once known as "True Hermaphroditism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_hermaphroditism)", which is extremely rare:

http://www.medhelp.org/ais/21_OVERVIEW.HTM#What

On the other hand, "ovotestis (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/256289-overview)" is not so rare (but is still one in 83,000 (http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency)), in which the gonad contains both ovarian follicles and testicular tubular elements.

Here are other resources on True Hermaphroditism:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-828X.1973.tb02304.x/abstract

http://archive.samj.org.za/1970%20VOL%20XLIV%20Jan-Jun/Articles/02%20February/3.6%20VARIABILITY%20OF%20THE%20HUMAN%20XX-XY%20MOSIAC.%20W.P.U.%20Jackson%20and%20N.%20Marin e.pdf

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/7/11/741

[Clueless]

That's some great but somewhat disturbingly educational info. Is there a blood test or something you can take to check if you were exposed? I've had a most likely non-cancerous cyst since I was 32. Where do I sign up for the class action lawsuit? The attorneys will get millions & the victims will get a $100 gift card for women's clothes.

[Renee W]

Very interesting. Being born in the early 60s there is a chance I could be included. I may never know however, since both of my parents have passed along.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Reine,

Thank you for the information and the time it took you to compile it.

It was most informative.

And yes, My particular genetic makeup is ultra rare.

Is this the reason why I can't seem to win the lottery?

God gave me this silly condition instead and said congrat's. LOL!!!!

Thank you again Reine.


Julia



Perhaps your condition is not caused by DES. Here is an article substantiated by research that shows the extent of DES effects on sons. An excerpt follows the link:

http://www.cdc.gov/des/consumers/about/effects_sons.html



Your description of having both gonads (ovaries & testes) was once known as "True Hermaphroditism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_hermaphroditism)", which is extremely rare:

http://www.medhelp.org/ais/21_OVERVIEW.HTM#What

On the other hand, "ovotestis (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/256289-overview)" is not so rare (but is still one in 83,000 (http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency)), in which the gonad contains both ovarian follicles and testicular tubular elements.

Here are other resources on True Hermaphroditism:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1479-828X.1973.tb02304.x/abstract

http://archive.samj.org.za/1970%20VOL%20XLIV%20Jan-Jun/Articles/02%20February/3.6%20VARIABILITY%20OF%20THE%20HUMAN%20XX-XY%20MOSIAC.%20W.P.U.%20Jackson%20and%20N.%20Marin e.pdf

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/7/11/741

[StacyCD]

Both my sister and I were exposed to DES. Most of the early studies were done on females because they are born with all of their eggs at birth so any drug administered during pregnancy can have an effect on the next generation. Since, males generate sperm throughout their lives there is less a chance of a genetic effect. However, clearly there are effects for both males and females.

[Josie M]

Well, it's never been spoken out in the open, but largely believed that my mother mother had a mis-carriage before I was born. I'm in the right time frame where DES would have been prescribed as a "precaution" against mis-carrying again. I also have some physical characteristics consistent with DES exposure....

It's certainly plausible in my case...enough so that I'm going to follow up and see what I can find out.

[minna_xxxx]

I happen to have my mother's pregnancy time medical records. She gave those records to me because the papers have also information about my weight and height development during childhood and other interesting information. I had forgotten the papers altogether until I read about DES some time ago from this forum. I knew that my mother had miscarriage before me, so it was possible that she took some medication. And yes, the papers confirmed that she had taken synthetic progestrone for preventing miscarriage. The current understanding is that it has similar effects than DES. My finger ratio is clearly at female range, so obviously the hormonal condition in the womb has been abnormal. So there is a smoking gun, then what? For me this has given some piece of mind because there is now a plausible medical explanation for what I am - it is not just that I am "a damn pervert" (as one person put it so nicely;-).

[Josie M]

The "2D:4D" finger ratio was particularly interesting because it isn't something I ever even thought about before. There's no question though that my ring and index fingers are about the same length. If anything, my index is just slightly longer. I'm reading that's a fairly strong indicator by itself. Had epilepsy as a child and, according to my neurologist have "low hemispherical lateralization" in the brain (another indicator - in short it means my left and right brains communicate fairly well). Finally, an AF ROTC physical showed evidence I was born with an un-descended testicle...

This is getting wierd....A real big concern is that I have a couple of kids and I'm reading that the latest studies are showing that DES can impact out to the third generation. I need to nail this down if I can because it sounds like it needs to be part of my children's medical record.

[Dealight]

This is a very interesting topic for me....having an "aha" moment. I don't want to place too much weight on some of this; the science is not overwhelmingly conclusive...but it sure as hell leans that way, doesn't it? !
I was born in 59. I have known for years that I was a DES baby; I feel rather stupid for not looking into the consequences of it earlier. All I knew was that I had an increased risk for testicular cancer (or perhaps not, as the articles above imply). I actually did not realize DES was estrogen! Nor did I realize the treatments amounted to massive amounts of estrogen exposure in utero. I don't know why I never researched it...I feel rather lame at this point....:)
The inter-digit ratio? You should have seen me a few minutes ago examining my hands with incredulity.....it is rather clear that I was exposed to estrogen in utero...and whatever that means as a result. My index and ring fingers are about the same length...if anything, my index could be slightly longer.
So now I am wondering what this means as far as my dressing goes....I really only started cross dressing a few years ago...a late bloomer, as it were...though if I am honest about it, I have had a fascination with wearing women's clothing as far back as I can remember. A common story on here, I know....I have long assumed it was just my particular fetish, which in more recent years has blossomed, probably because I have been ABLE to let it blossom due to life circumstances....And as I think about it, that is probably more the case..but honestly, this new information for me will have me thinking for quite some time.......hmmmmm...
:) Thanks everybody for your input here..I have truly enjoyed reading all of your posts!
Best to all....Dea

[Meg East]

DES
I have been haunted by the finger thing. the ratio of 2D to 4D. I am basically 1.00 My father was a young doc at the time of my birth and would or could have given mom DES. Would explain my sister's uterine problems and my Cd'ing