new experience / drunk guys

[arbon]

Last night I had to do some volunteer work for a fund raising event and because of some of the circumstances (the big one being my employer was going to be there) I presented as male. Which, anymore, even when I am presenting male I am pretty androgynous. The event ended around 1:30am and I thought I would go hang out with a friend that is a clerk at a 24hr convenient store to give her some company.

So I am hanging out there with my friend who is working and 2 guys come in, drunk of course (that time of night is when all the drunks come in to get their booze before the 2am cutoff). They grab a case of beer and about a dozen large frozen burritos (I learned that when the bars are closing frozen burritos and pizza sell very very well!). They try to cook all the burritos at once in the microwave lol! but they were really close to where I am sitting, and my friend is busy at the register, and they start flirting with me which I never experienced before. It was kind of a turn on, in a way, they were very cute and well dressed, and I got kind of a warm and exciting feeling inside. They were reading me as a women :):), which after having to go the nights event as I did (I was very stressed and depressed about that) it was great to be read as a woman.

but it started to get rather rude, and crude after 5 or 10 minutes - for example one said to the other "look at her she, she has f*** me eyes" and stuff like that, like a few jokes about burritos, yeah :eek: (which they were there for about 15 minutes trying to get them all cooked!)

I started to get very nervous and uncomfortable and worrying about how they were going to react if some brain cells started to fire off in those little wet brains of theirs and the question "why does she have such a big adams apple?" or "what is up with her voice?" bubbled to the surface of their consciousnesses.

Which thankfully did not happen. They got their food done finally, the beer and bought a hustler magazine(I guess they were going to read it together? ) and had us call them a taxi which they went outside at least to wait for.

It was just something totally new for me because I don't drink or hang out in clubs or bars. While it was in some ways kinda fun exciting, at least at first before it got so crude, it was also made me rather nervous.

It reminded me what some guys can really be like, especially drinking, and they can be rather scary.

[Melody Moore]

Yes, drunk men have always made me feel nervous because I have seen too much crap in my
life from them if they are not being rude and crude to women, it is always something else. I nearly
killed a guy and his mate who were both drunk in self-defense who tried to attack me many years
ago. And I am sure that would not have happened if they were sober and still had any resemblance
of common sense left. My own brother was killed in an unsolved murder after being at a hotel drinking
in 1994. My ex-wife was raped in 2001 after our drinks were spiked. So if that isn't already bad enough?

Common sense now dictates to me that there are certain places I am not to go anymore simply because
of far too much alcohol and testosterone. And the longer you are around it and the later it becomes, the
more volatile the situation can get. I have heard stories where trans women have been out having a good
time one minute, then they are being raped and bashed the next. Alcohol creates far too many Dr Jekyll
& Mr Hyde types where you see a massive change in personality, I have seen it turn gentlemen into animals.

Since transitioning, I have been forced to use physical force to deter 3 guys who have tried to attack me
or someone else. In one instance I defended two gay guys who had already been assaulted, so I assumed
I was going to be next so I took action instead of winding up another victim. the other two guys become
violent when I rejected their sexual advances. But in every case here all three guys were drunk and I am
sure they wouldn't have behaved this badly if they were sober & thinking clearly - all had regrets later.

So use your common sense for pete's sake and stay the hell away from men who are drinking, both can be
a very bad combination. And I don't want to be mourning the news of your death at next year's Transgender
Day of Remembrance.

[Melissa Jill]

Alcohol won't make a nice guy do bad things, it will just remove a bad persons inhibitions so they are more likely to behave negatively.

[Melody Moore]

Either way, it is when you really do see their true colours and there
is no way I will hang out with guys who have drinking problems.

[IamSara]

Alcohol won't make a nice guy do bad things, it will just remove a bad persons inhibitions so they are more likely to behave negatively.

I couldn't have said it better. I have seen it all myself as I was a bartender in several bars in a variety of types of bars.

[SandraAbsent]

Alcohol won't make a nice guy do bad things, it will just remove a bad persons inhibitions so they are more likely to behave negatively.

I managed hotels, restaurants and bars for 20 years. I agree that alcohol wont make a nice guy do bad things even when inhibitions have been lowered. Because inhibitions get lowered, alcohol will make bad people do bad things that they would not do sober. I've seen it time and time again where some idiot's only filter is sobriety.

[arbon]

It was just interesting, especially my feelings where I was really loving the attention at first, before the ugliness started. Having guys flirt with me :)

How much I feel like I do want to be with a man.

I was only intimate with a man once, a long long time ago, and I was loaded at the time. Scarred me back then, even though I had come out as gay for a short while, mostly because I did not know what they heck I was - had so much internal homophobia, and conflict with myself, it just was not acceptable. I thought I was a horrible person.

Today much more free to allow myself to be as I truly am.

[Melody Moore]

The attention is always good at first, but it can turn ugly in an instant and that was certainly the case
for a trans-man I know who got head-butted the other day when he tried to help a woman who was
really drunk and was vomiting. This other insecure meathead took it that my trans male friend was
trying to do something 'un-towards' to this drunk woman and got head-butted for his troubles. Men
get so jealous and defensive of women they want to have sex with. And if one guy thinks that he is
"in like Flynn" with you then that is when the real problems begin. I would be very careful to give a
guy the 'come on' or to do things that sends the wrong message and could put yourself in a situation
that is hard to get out of.

I am not trying to be a fear monger here, but extreme caution needs to be used around males when
they are drinking. Alcohol and Testosterone is a deadly mix, especially in young males that haven't
learn to master either of them. Sadly some older guys never grow up and learn to take responsibility
and can also be dangerous. I know a trans woman who was raped up here by four men and bashed,
but her story is just one of many. There are far too many cases of abuse of trans women and I really
believe that alcohol is often a major contributing factor. I hope I never have to say "I told you so".

[donnalee]

As I spent a good deal of my youth working in bars, everything from the very urbane to the kind with chicken wire over the bandstand, I learned to handle drunks early (and often). Here are a few tips:
Distract them. Drunks have an extremely short attention span ("Ooooh! That dog has a fluffy tail!).
Talk them out of it; start a discussion of a sporting event, while leading them gently away from the conflict.
Offer to buy them a drink; the prospect of a free drink will supersede all other interests.
Out-think them; invite them outside, then close and lock the door behind them (or block it if you don't have the key).
A full-on frontal assault is inadvisable, as you may be the one arrested if the police come. I have heard of a waitress clipping them on the adam's apple with the edge of a drink tray, which will incapacitate them long enough to get them out of the joint (and she can always claim she tripped, cops being even less tolerant of mean drunks than cocktail waitresses are).
If necessary, a kick to the kneecap or a spike heel to the instep may be in order

[gabimartini]

That's a very elucidative story, thanks for sharing!

Your experience shows one true aspect of "being a girl", aside from the fantasy and fetish, that a lot of people on this site seem to overlook. Unfortunately, that's what many GGs need to put up with everyday. I can't begin to imagine the scum your friend has to deal with every work evening.

Glad to hear that on that particular night, you both were safe.

[ReineD]

This is why you don't see GGs just hanging out at 2 AM.

It's been so long ago that I learned to be afraid, there are many places I wouldn't even consider going to by myself.

[Zenith]

This is why you don't see GGs just hanging out at 2 AM.

It's been so long ago that I learned to be afraid, there are many places I wouldn't even consider going to by myself.

I've tried to tell people on here this, to have a healthy fear. But I get dismissed. You just cannot do some of the things alone as female that you could as male. If violence and rape against women are eradicated from society, then that would change.

[Melissa Jill]

Is there any evidence to show that females get attacked more often than males? Ive tried searching before but couldn't really find anything.

[Zenith]

Is there any evidence to show that females get attacked more often than males? Ive tried searching before but couldn't really find anything.

Um, duh yes. 91% female victims. Guys aren't often raping other guys (except prison).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender

[ReineD]

Julie, I think that women need to be raised to believe that we have to fend for ourselves. This means early learning of effective self-defense methods, keeping in shape, being taught it is OK to be competitive, and in some cultures packing a gun. I'm thinking here of women who live in Afghanistan. I'd love nothing better to see them fight back against the Taliban on their own terms. Some guy comes up to you threatening to kill you? Just shoot him in the face. If every woman did this, things would change radically over there. But, I digress.

I have a cute story. The wrestling coach at one of my son's high school has two children: a boy, and a girl I'll call X. Both children had been wrestling since age 4. They were both very good and went on to state championships all through high school. X was wrestling and winning against boys in her weight class. I need to add that X is very pretty, very feminine.

So one day I was over at a friend's house whose daughter hung out with X. A few girls were going overnight to a larger city a few hours away and when the father told them he didn't feel comfortable with them going alone (meaning with no guys to protect them), the daughter told him, "It's OK dad, we don't need guys. X will be with us". I smiled and thought, "You go, girl!". We should all be like X. :)

[Melissa Jill]

Um, duh yes. 91% female victims. Guys aren't often raping other guys (except prison).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender

ok...what about being attacked in general though?

[ReineD]

ok...what about being attacked in general though?

http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/

[arbon]

This is why you don't see GGs just hanging out at 2 AM.

It's been so long ago that I learned to be afraid, there are many places I wouldn't even consider going to by myself.

There is definitely a new feeling of vulnerability and awareness in transition, things are not the same as when I looked like just one of the guys.

I have not drank in almost 2 decades and don't hang out in bars or usually where much drinking is going on. My life is pretty boring. I have no intention of changing that, i like it that way. My feeling for guys is really something I don't know that I would ever act on it, certainly never with someone that was drinking. But I just enjoy the feelings, it is like I have been missing it all along and now it just gets me all warm and fuzzy inside. There is a man I know, older, who every time I see him will take my hand and kiss it and tell me I am beautiful - he is not a drunk, he is married and very successful, he just does it because that is how he is I guess, and he knows it always makes me smile :)

I do worry about my friend working those hours but she is pretty good at taking care of herself, there is a panic button that goes straight to the police, there are cameras everywhere, and the police and cap drivers check up on her very frequently throughout the night as it is the only 24 hour store in the county and that she gets a lot of drunks in there. i will probably still hang out with her at the store from time to time, but will be very careful.

[Katie Moore]

Alcohol won't make a nice guy do bad things, it will just remove a bad persons inhibitions so they are more likely to behave negatively.

I disagree. Alcohol influences GOOD and BAD people to behave in strange ways whether that is good or bad. I don't think you can make it that simple imho.

[Melody Moore]

I totally agree Katie, and I believe that we have to think lot differently as females in order to stay
safe. We surrendered any protection we had as males along with our male privilege when transitioned.
Now is all we are is a piece of meat to the average male who hungers for sex. Sure the attention is
flattering but it can also turn really nasty within no time if we are not careful. Usually most fights
between men are over a female they want to have sex with. But I have already experienced violence
where a couple of drunk guys turned really nasty towards me because I rejected their advances for sex.
Both of these guys had to be physically restrained and put down to bring an end to these problems. So
God help you if you don't have any self-defence training and you find yourself in a situation like I was in.

[ReineD]

I totally agree Katie, and I believe that we have to think lot differently as females in order to stay
safe.

Perhaps you or others could answer this, but is the main difference (post HRT) a massive reduction in muscle mass, and so you don't have the same physical strength as before?



We surrendered any protection we had as males along with our male privilege when transitioned.
Now is all we are is a piece of meat to the average male who hungers for sex. Sure the attention is
flattering but it can also turn really nasty within no time if we are not careful. Usually most fights
between men are over a female they want to have sex with.

I wouldn't be too flattered. The types of guys who go after girls just for sex, will go after anything, and often times, not just girls. There's a bad joke about the men in one of our southern states (I won't mention which one), but it is, "In [name of State], men are men and sheep are scared!" :p You learn very quickly that it's demeaning to be looked upon as a sexual object, and honestly, you don't even have to be attractive to get this type of guy's attention. Anything will do for them - girls, guys, sheep, lol - especially when they're liquored up. Thank goodness there are few such louts, but it is the few that ruin it for the rest.

Also, I feel threatened by some (not all) men mostly because of the disparity in our height, weight, and upper body strength. I know there are some guys out there who will feel free to take what they want, whether it is my car, purse, or whatever. These men don't have an iota of chivalry, they don't mind taking advantage of those who are physically weaker. It's not always just about rape.

And last, when two guys fight over a girl, it's not always about her either. Men become proprietary and territorial. The fight is a power struggle between them to determine who is the strongest, even if none of them wants the girl. It's all about the testosterone. An acquaintance recently told me how he lost the tip of his finger. It was only indirectly over the girl. The ex (who was by then in a relationship with another girl), just got all territorial because he felt his ex girlfriend was still his property, even if he didn't want her. My acquaintance got caught up in it all, and it was about the power struggle and establishing superiority for him as well. The other guy lost a part of his ear in the fight. Ick!

[Sheren Kelly]

You are also missing a key ingredient...pack behavior.
One guy alone probably won't become too much more than an A-hole if drunk, 2+ guys become a problem as they try to out macho the other. This is also true of non-drunks with homo/trans phobia. I recall having a conversation in drab with a co-worker who was describing a trans couple (both transitioned: MTF & FTM). The conversation was respectful, till the alpha male of the group showed up, then the slurs began....

[Melody Moore]

Usually it is the alpha male who is the most respectful, it is the
wannabes who have a point to prove and are the most dangerous.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Since everyone else has addressed the drunkard/safety issues, I will address the OP stating that she liked being flirted with...

I think every one enjoys being flirted with to some degree or another. I still love it when men are flirting with me and I am a Lesbian.

[Melody Moore]

I went into a bar earlier today looking for a friend and as soon as I walked in the door then the wolves started
calling with their flattering and enticing comments. "Hey sexy", "Hey come over here and join us baby" & "Hey
good looking" are just a few of statements that really stuck in my mind as I was also thinking about the topic
of this thread. I looked around & smiled at a couple of cute guys, but kept walking but kept thinking...

If a guy tells me I'm hot, then he is only looking at my body, if a guy tells me I am pretty
then he is only looking at my face, if a guy tells me I am beautiful, then he is looking at my soul."

[Andrea85]

Drunk guys are fun to me. I love being hit on and getting free drinks lol. Drunk women are more fun though. But I can be a little ****ty when I drink. ;)

[ArleneRaquel]

I dont like to be " hit on " by drunken males, not that it happens that often.

[Nicole Erin]

It is nice when men flirt. I guess more for the "validation" factor than anything. I don't really like being with men unless their sexual tastes are real similar to mine.

I avoid drinking places. I do not drink anyways, maybe a beer a month if that. People just act weird when they are drunk
Drunks can get stupid. Which is why *I* believe that firing up a doob is the way to go.

[Babeba]

Since everyone else has addressed the drunkard/safety issues, I will address the OP stating that she liked being flirted with...

I think every one enjoys being flirted with to some degree or another. I still love it when men are flirting with me and I am a Lesbian.

I think this is a little controversial. It's one thing to feel flattered, it's another to feel creeped out. I don't always like being flirted with, sometimes I feel frightened or very uncomfortable.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think this is a little controversial. It's one thing to feel flattered, it's another to feel creeped out. I don't always like being flirted with, sometimes I feel frightened or very uncomfortable.


Controversial? What? You stated that you don't ALWAYS like being flirted with so that means that sometimes you do like being flirted with.

So my sentence that: I think every one enjoys being flirted with to some degree or another. applies to you as well.

[Joann Smith]

Apparentally i am hot as hell to guys when they get drunk .....because I am a drunk dude magnet....