Dishonesty Frustration Optimism...a rant.

[Ellaine]

I so much appreciate this forum and others, but I want more for all of us.

The TG "community" has become more visible over time, aided in no small measure by the Gay Rights movement, The Internet, and to a lesser extent the entertainment industry. However, little of that visibility has been positive or informative.

As individuals we all face the battle of honesty over personal survival. In spite of the thousands of TG forums that exist, with all their references to the "TG community" there is little tangible evidence that optimism for the future is justified.
Now I dont want to play down the contribution of the relatively few, who are working actively in the real world to educate, inform and achieve rights and protections. Such work should be spotlighted on forums as inspiration. Yet as in many other fields, the masses who stand to benefit, do little or nothing to contribute to much desired advancement.

As closeted individuals, we seek to distance ourselves from the staunchly negative perceptions that Joe and Jane Doe have of TG folk. Many of us are embarassed by our own desires and yet aware that we are not alone. We begin perhaps by feeling like an alien, untill we realise that there are countless others fighting the same prejudices held by the public. There is much that is wrong here. We are The Public, we are hidden in every nook and cranny of society, yet we remain insecure and in fear for our jobs and family.

Every time a spouse or SO discovers that she has a TG partner, there is more often than not, immense trauma and too often a sad ending. It is invariably the dishonesty that hurts the most. Fears that young children will be damaged in some way, are almost always proved wrong. There are far too many myths and mysteries relating to our lifestyle, and we do little more than just wish for acceptance.

Ways must be found to work more cohesively and contribute in greater numbers to enable honesty among partners, to be quantified and less marginalised as perverts and wierdos.

With these thoughts in mind, I searched for any sites that are specificly for women who love or suport TG's. I found none. Yes they have sections in TG sites, they exists amongst the Goth community and appear in jolly snapshots on Goth sites, but it doesn't appear to go any further.



Is the collective "We" ever going to mean anything?
Can/should we find ways to ...

(a) Get TG sites communicating and publishing relevant news

(b) Quantify the extent of our hidden masses

(c) Encourage awareness and support for events

(d) Reach out to our ethnic minority Sisters

(e) Accentuate the positive etc...

What about having a TG Out Day? When those of us still in the closet can know that others are declaring their TG/CD/TV status to their partner.

Just imagine your newsreader stating (with inevitable humour) that today is TG Out Day!!

Perhaps every forum could have a sugestions/activists only (non-discussion) thread, so ideas are not lost in general discussions.

Can we do more than wait and hope?
For some things there is never a good time, so what are we waiting for?
Even a closeted tranny like me can leave small leaflets in public places publicising sites like this and addressing the issues, without endangering myself.

Or am I completely barking, and having a blonde, hormonal, moon-inspired tantrum?

Don't forget:
Please hunt down and post links to any suportive womens' sites.

Any insanity would be much worse without you.
Hugs to all

Ellaine xx

[Rainbow6562005]

Hi, Ellaine :)

Thank you for writing an intelligent "rant," one that is likely to engage the mind of anyone open to the changes you call for.

I think that any group requires a strong leader, committed to making a change, before anything will happen. If such a person can create enough relationships around the proposed change, something akin to Jello "setting" occurs. Suddenly others, only superficially involved up to this point (the bulk of the membership), become galvanized; a movement begins.

And so it, goes; almost every group has complaints like yours. I think you are the potential leader this Forum needs. Willing to take on the role? I will support you, as best I can.

As for sites where the SOs of CDers can get good support for themselves, visit http://www.webdotgal.com/main/html/sohome.html
As a CDer, I've found it useful to help me understand my GF; and she's found it useful to realize that her concerns are very common, indeed.

Regards,
Rainbow

[Wendy me]

frist off nice thread ... i can only express my thoughts on this and some might not like them ...the only reason that we are not accpted is our own fault news letters and planning a "out day" simply won't work ...as well as a lot of outher things that sound so good when posted here or any were else ...

simply put we are tolrent and understanding of the gay people and their life styles .... we have same sex marages ... oh theise people are luck that we as a world accpete them ....wish and dream of the day thay do the same for us ....." BULL SHIT" ..........look rember when being gay ment thay were diffrent ??? and thay hid it??? ok them wonder full people stopped hideing and blew open the closete doors ...steped out into the world and stood up for them selfes ....thats how thay got to were thay are now ....the only thing i can see is most closeted cd's are realy happy just were thay are ...oh my job , oh were i live,, oh this and oh that ...when we as a groupe of people are ready to step out speak up and by the way that is not speaking up here on our forums ...after all over 5000 people here already agree with our thoughts ...sisters it's your familys...freinds .. coworkers.... and your comuinty that need to here you/ us ...till that date when we say we can't ....because of..... what we realy mean is i won't do it .......

[ChrissyCrossedLegs]

Wendy, Amen.. nowt else to add... oh well go on then.. just to be sure which part of your post I amen the most...
"the only thing i can see is most closeted cd's are realy happy just were thay are ".......
Isn't being different part of the thrill for many CD's? Isn't the idea that they are doing something 'naughty' part of the 'game'. These are not new thougths, but they are things we have to address if we are going to have an 'out day'.
Ellaine,
Brillinat post, loved it... one thing grabbed me:
(b) Quantify the extent of our hidden masses

Every day there seems to be someone new here, and it has been gradually dawning on me that, a) people do pop their clogs every now and again, so that kinda keeps the numbers down, but b) given that most of us agree that it's nigh on impossible to stop being TG, how many more people are there out there, still to join us here, that will in the end show us, all the official figures showing how many men CD are utter rubbish.
I can remember the time when it was said 1-10 men have CD at some time... I wonder what the official number is now?
I have always said that one of the TG communities biggest problem is that if we all come out, (big if), the 'world' is going to ask the same old question of every TG on the planet. "Why do you do this"? Every TG on the planet may not even know why, but if they do, the 'world' will get answers it can't handle, because the answers will be very very different, and I believe the world, when it comes to this kind of thing, does not like chaos, and that is what all our answers will seem like, chaos.
The way around this.. well I ain't clever enough to figure it out..leave that to you lot.
Great post though

[Shannon]

I'm no expert on social change, but having been around for 54 years, I've seen a lot of minority rights movements. Be it civil rights and integration for blacks, women's lib, gay rights, handicap accessibility,it seems the 'battles' are waged on many fronts -- there are high visibility demonstrations (sometimes protests and confrontations), there are education and awareness programs, there are individuals coming out and to announce there membership and support, and there are leaders -- usually one or two charismatic leaders, perhaps a few vocal activitists from the entertainment industry. Also, there seems to be turning points -- marches/protests, a memorable speech, etc. It will take similar efforts on multiple fronts.

Still, change takes time -- because the change we are talking about is social mores, customs and values. In some other thread it was noted that, in the grand scheme of things, the social prohibition against men in dresses and heels is a 'recent' western cultural thing -- I think they said within the past 250 years. Now I really don't want to wait 250 years, but social customs and values do take time to change.

For myself, being part of this forum has accelerated a lot of change within me -- I'm dressing up and have gone out twice on 'safe' adventures. Never would have done that without this group 'with me'. I'm ready to try on a skirt in a store. I'm ready to be frank, open and honest about my CrossDressing with my next girlfriend (assuming I do find a next g/f!).

I too hope that we can better manage and coordinate all the components it takes to accelerate change and create the accepting, guilt-free environment we want. Here in the States, I think our younger generations, having grown up in a far more diverse environment, seem to be more naturally accepting of differences among people. Unfortunately, we also have the religious right and neo-conservatives ranting, raving, and scaring folks into absolutist views and positions that present major barriers and challenges to social change.

Guess I really don't have a point to make -- simply sharing my views

P.S. -- This came to me after I originally posted. Agree that quantifing our numbers is helpful, more impactful may be quantifing our PURCHASING POWER. Can you imagine the response of department stores and manufacturers if they knew they could increase revenue a few percentage points with some very simple marketing and advertising 'tricks'. For example, CD-Day at the cosmetics counters. I buy make-up now, and I know I'd buy a lot more if I could comfortably sit down at a cosmetics counter, get some make-up tips, try out a few products, and make some purchases. Same thing with clothes.

[TGMarla]

Yes, sure, it's an interesting rant, and broaches a subject that has crossed the mind of every single person that participates in this forum. We have probably, all of us, seen a similar topic discussed online somewhere a hundred times before. At the risk of posing a defeatist attitude, Wendy is probably right.

In any movement, like the Civil Rights movement, where you are dealing with a large population that has been brainwashed into believing that their archaic beliefs are mandated by a higher power, you are ultimately dealing with hate, and breaking the cycle of hatred invites violence and ultimately death. Do you think this is too strong a statement? Well consider this, the morning after the legendary Rosa Parks passed away: She sparked a movement that revolutionized the way we approach race relations. During that movement, which to some extent is still moving, white people (not ALL of them) rose up and fought it often with violence in order to keep the status quo. At times, they invoked questionable Biblical passages that suggested that the Great White Race had been selected by God to lead other races, thereby placing their own race as supreme. People died in the struggle.

Likewise in the Gay and Lesbian movement, which is still going on, the fight is again violently opposed by people who raise their Bibles and claim that God himself spoke out against it. "Any man who takes another man as he would take his wife is an abonination in mine eyes". Once again, people died, and continue to die. Remember Matthew Shepherd? Who among us wants to be tied to a fence gate and beaten to death for the right to wear pantyhose in public? Gays and Lesbians are visible on television, but are often depicted as ridiculous characters. Look at "Jack" on "Will and Grace". I cannot watch that show, as the characters are so annoying. Gays and Lesbians (a redundant phrase) march every year before throngs of onlookers willing to throw verbal and physical filth at and upon them just for the right to be "open" about their practices.

Who in the crossdressing community is willing to put on HIS best dress and heels in order to march openly in front of others as they pour their derision upon them in public? Who is willing to risk everything in their lives, including their wives, homes, careers, and physical safety just so they can wear skirts, dresses, and breastforms in public?

Yes, I'd like to be accepted by the general public. But let's all remember just what constitutes the "general public". In the United States, the average reading ability plateaus at the sixth grade level. The most read publication is the National Enquirer. The Christian Right is the second most vocal and active political force, right behind the NRA. Both of these groups have used violence to maintain their status quo. The Christian right, armed with their Bibles, will "quote God" to show that our simple and harmless practices are an abomination in the eyes of God. My whole point here, is that in every struggle, the real battle is against an ingrained ignorance that is embedded in the general populace. Crossdressers are mistakenly labelled as gay and perverted. And as long as a small portion of our community is committed to fetishism, wearing outrageous clothing such as rubber and PVC, and running around in nothing but bikinis, that is the prevailing perception that the general public will have.

I am not willing to be beaten or die for that.

[Ellaine]

Thanks for the input girls...whilst I fully appreciate and agree with much of what Wendy :) and Marla :) have written, I had no thoughts of stirring anyone to risk life and limb (as if!! ;)).
However at the same time I will take this opportunity to give a little curtsey to those, and there are many, who do brave the big wide world, and excacerbate my own wimpish envy lol.

I thank you too Rainbow, for your (sadly misplaced ) vote of confidence. But nor am I trying to organise any kind of "movement".
It really was a frustrated rant, born of my own anger with the reality that keeps me indoors, when I know there is no logic to the hatred and misunderstanding of others. I live in a very small town and my wife couldn't cope with being gossiped about even if I were brave enough, (and there are times when I am) to go out and live the life.

And now I'm thinking as I type....I guess, what I had in mind was a better organised web presence for us all...rather than thousands of sites catering for Tg's everywhere...each trying to be all things to all TG's, relying on snippets of info dropped haphazardly......What about some way of auto-forwarding of local information, events, holidays or other resource posts to affiliated sites across the country or Internationaly. Perhaps an affiliated section on each existing site to form a "Way Out " type directory of local info etc.
This or similar, may allow more reliable estimation of numbers, and better support for events, resources or just getting together etc.

And...Oh dear,hehehe......The Gay community and Goths and TG's love carnival, perhaps that could be built on, simply by making the whole carnival thing more accessible through advance publicity ....of course these things aren't going to suit everyone.

Acceptance or real tollerance for all individual TG's in the mall, pub or elsewhere is perhaps never going to equate to the Gay situation, but behind the scenes co-operation could open a lot more doors.

Some of my thinking is perhaps born of the Hippy movement of the 60's.... from a shaky and denegrated start, when folks saw the fun hippies were having their numbers swelled phenomenally. Many of them were "weekend hippies" with flowers in their hair, making Peace signs and endlessly repeating..."Far out man!"......who went back to respectable working hum-drum Monday to Friday.....
Yes I know, I'm just confirming my mental instability lol... but you've got to spit it out haven't you ;)

O.K. I'll go put my head in a bucket of water... lol

Ellaine :)

[Phoebe Reece]

I think Wendy really has it right. The TG community is its own worst enemy by being so secretive and closeted.
I believe that the way you change public attitudes is not by having special days to tell people or by marching in parades or even by having television shows about us. You change attitudes by letting people see you doing ordinary things in ordinary places while crossdressed. Most people fear the unknown. If the TG community is more visible, it is less threatening. Certainly nothing will improve if TG's do nothing more than complain to one another that it is so terrible that society will not accept them.

[Julie York]

This has been discussed a few times and the end result is usually the same. In order to change a system of thought, it usually takes several VERY brave individuals to bring the debate to the public. Even if it is to your own family and friends. In doing that they are often attacked and abused. For my part...I'm happy in my non-violent closet being very unbrave. I think most of us are....sad but true.

The only reason gay people can walk the streets declaring they are gay is because several very brave people took the violence and abuse before them.

Same with blacks and human rights.

Same (this sounds silly unless you are old enough) with growing your hair long, after NO MAN in Western Society had grown their hair over their ears for over 100 years!! (Yes, have a think about that next time you see a Hippy being beaten up in an old newsreal!).

So step up girls.....Who wants to be a pioneer and take the flack so we can all duck down behind you?




(Oye! This is MY closet....form a queue dammit!)

[MonaSmith]

I stand somewhere in the middle on this issue. I have stated on this forum before that I get frustrated by the people, firmly sitting in their closets, claiming that it is unfair that the world doesn't accept them, without them making any effort to earn this acceptance. On the other hand I really don't see why I have to speak for the entire TG community every time I leave my house. I don't want to be part of a movement, I just want to live my life as I want, which is what I am trying to do.

I think that one of the problems with the outside perception of the TG 'community' is that we are a very disparate group of people, with some very different reasons for doing what we do. A TS girl needs to be 'out and about', letting the people around her know the score, but why would a person with a sexual fetish for wearing panties have any responsibility for 'spreading the word' of transgenderism? If I had a fetish for wearing a leather mask during sex should I have to 'educate' my friends and workmates about it? Some things are kept behind closed doors for a reason. We use the term 'community' a lot but ultimately we are all individuals and have many different aims and goals in our crossdressing.

Forums like this are good places to find support and meet like minded people, but I don't think that they are the key to forcing people to respect us, as too few of us respect ourselves to hope that the rest of the world will fall into line. What the forums can do though is to empower us as individuals to make decisions about our lives which will eventually effect the whole group in the long term. Many small changes add up to a big change. I have been on this forum for just under a year and it has given me the confidence to make changes in my lifestyle, that have effected the people around me and in turn the people around them. What we need is for more of us to be honest with ourselves and with others, people never like being pushed or tricked into things, and will resist just for the hell of it, but most people are more than happy to be led by the hand.

That is just my opinion on things for now.

Mona xx

(don't use the hippies as a model, they all sold out in the end, it's all viral and fractal these days honey, chaos theory is your friend ;) )

[Ellaine]

Phoebe :)

I totally agree really, sad buggers aren't we?


That's not personal, it's the collective "we" lol

The one trhat means nothing!


hehehe

[Jacqui]

As Rainbow, Shannon, Marla, Julie have stated, a movement towards acceptance requires a strong leader and sacrifice.

I agreee with that to an extent. Where I veer off, though, is that I believe in this day and age, the most powerful influence of all is THE MEDIA. In particular, HOLLYWOOD.

Give me one "Based on a True Story" starring Russel Crowe, Tom Hanks, Kiefer Sutherland, Brad Pitt (well, maybe not Brad, we already know what he looks like in a skirt!), or some other macho mega-movie star who can act and draw and audience. Put him and his typical Ann Archer-type wife (perhaps played by Ben Afleck....no I'm only kidding!) in a movie aimed at the mainstream.

Let the cd'ing or tg or ts part be secondary to the central theme. Pull on the heartstrings, make 'em think, make 'em cry, make 'em laugh. Go through the mental anxiety, tension, heartbreak, paranoia, depression, to the heights of transformation, arousement, self fullfillment, passing and acceptance. Do it Right! Give it a twist. Make it catchy. Make it an Academy Award winner. Most important, Make it a FAD!

In the end though, the main character must accomplish something special, something that benefits the mainstream, so that it's not just about cd'ing, tg'ism, ts'ism.

Movies can influence the way people think. People quote movies all the time. "Life is just a box of chocolates;"
"Show me the money!" .....et al.

This has to be done one step at a time and I think the biggest step can be done in Hollywood by someone who's with us and is willing to take the chance. If it's one thing I've learned about this forum, it's that there are alot of very intelligent and creative people who reside here. Perhaps some reside in Beverly Hills. I don't think it's so far fetched.

The payoff comes after the movie, when you go home, get into the bedroom and your S/O suggests that you try on her bra. It becomes the FAD.

The rest is history!

[Ellaine]

Jaqui :)

As ever we have the reality hardened cynics..and the ambitious optomistics...Good job I've got two feet...One in each camp ;)

I agree though, that media inclusion of characters who just happen to be TG would do a great deal to raise awareness. Good point!!
Anyone got contacts on Ocean Blvd?

Ellaine

[Kimberly]

Ellain,

You make an amazing arguement, and one I am completely supportive of.

In a few more years, once my family is not such a big part of my life, I will come out completely... I agree that we need to be recognised positively as a community that has members within it from all walks of life.

There have been some excellent TV documentaries here in the UK on Tranvestitism and Transsexualism, (Grayson Perry did an amazing one - he himself is a outed transvestite, and Turner Prize winner.) But I believe it is mostly day-to-day contact that would benefit our cause most.

Good luck, girl, and post any more news about this!

xx