Not sure what to make of a friend..

[Lizeth]

I guess when it comes right down to it, I've sort of decided I'm more CD than TG. And while I love everything feminine, theres still much in 'guy life' I would hate to give up.. But this thread isn't about me... or is it?

I recently came out to a friend who decided to make the monumental step and decided she was going to transition. We decided we should do the girls day out. Also, we hooked up with a GG friend of both of ours. Well, it turns out I've been CDing longer than she has been transitioning. She was a bit of a late bloomer, but oh well. My friend is already on hormones and has had facial hair removed.

I really have no decent way to say this. And I am feeling completely hypocritical, like all those idiots who say 'Oh, I have no problem with them... BUT'.. horsepucky. And frankly I'm a bit ashamed of myself because as a CD, the whole point is looking like and wearing what you want.

I have just recently come to the reality, that while upon closer inspection I probably don't pass (Yet...), but I do in fact, blend in with a crowd and I am proud to say I can walk safely through a crowd or past a person, or even into the woman's restroom without drawing a secondly glance, which frankly for me is pure nirvana.

To make a long story short, she made many, many questionable style decisions, which is politically correct for she looked :eek: ... way too many contrasting makeup colors, wig in the wrong color, a sweater, socks and epically tall CFMP's, making her a crazy tall 6'6" easy. And to draw more attention to the fact she was looming over the whole population, she topped it off with a Pink banded Trilby (For those - a short brimmed Fedora) straight out of hot topic.

I'm going on 32 years old, and I guess I dress like a 32 year old woman. In stark Contrast, I was wearing a Jeans, a nice leather jacket, a casual printed T-shirt (The Who!) a set of Classic chuck taylors. The Actual Girl in the group was wearing a matching track suit and sneakers. We were just going out to a casual dinner and some prechristmas window shopping. To quit beating around the bush and get to the point she stuck out like a sore thumb. And because she was as tall as a mighty oak, we never lost track of her in all the department stores.

And you know.. I could have sucked it up and got over it.. if she wasn't being completely closed out to our advice. I offered Wig tape and to try and straighten her wig a bit, because it started doing that slouching forwards thing to where the false part is in the middle of the forehead. She resisted. The GG with us (Who is actually into costuming, costume making and cosplay(!!!!)) suggest she could try a front lace wig and she obstinately said 'there was no point in those'.. to which I chimed in 'Um, I'm wearing one now?'

Half way through the shopping, the huge heels started to bother her and she started walking around JCPenny in her socks (At least she wasn't towering over everything in the zipcode anymore). She asked to stop at Payless, and me and the GG silently cheered to ourselves. We were pointing out some nice flats and tennis shoes and she veered off like a heel-seeking-missile and grabbed a set of boots with a 3" heel and *ziiiip* taller than the universe again.

Don't get me wrong.. I have heels. I own 5 pairs of women's shoes and 3 of them have heels. One pair of boot which I save so special occasions has 4.5" heels. I also wear them around the house and practice with them so I'm not clopping along like a Clydesdale also... (And I'm totally pissed because I can fit in a 13W in womans, and she can get away with an 11 or 12, which is where most shoe stores stop, but besides the point!).

Meanwhile a friend was texting me (Who knew what we were up to) and asked how things were going and got a mixed answer. I gave her a SitRep. As if sent by the god of setup lines, she texted me back and asked if the GG I was with was dressed like that would I have the same problem, unaware the GG was actually there to witness it. To which she then said something to the effect 'Liz may not, but I would'..

I guess what I'm putting off is I was annoyed. Here I had dressed up (And yes, even if it's jeans and a T-shirt, the fact I was girled is 'Dressed up'. It still takes 45 minutes to go from naked to Liz) specifically for the purpose of blending in and not being the center of attention, and here she is going out of her way to draw every eye in the mall to her. And me as well. All the while, she's fervently pointing out she's not in 'Drag', but this is how she is. And I am somewhat ashamed, because deep down I know I should be the first in line to be supportive and the last person on earth to say anything or judge how people want to dress.

I guess I'm at a loss at what to do.. I don't think I want to have that much attention drawn to me again and she refuses to take any advice.. Ideas? Thanks in advance..

[EllieOPKS]

I have not been in your shoes but I can fully understand where you are coming from Lizeth. If your friend wants to dress and act like a Ringling Bailey sideshow it's his option. I would have to tell him that your personal intention of going in public is not to see how much attention can be drawn to you. When he dresses over the top, now people are looking at you as well, either tone it down or shop by yourself. I am sure you and the GG would had a much better time by yourselves.

[Debra Russell]

Some time we all may act like a fool for what ever reason, here's hoping your friend will grow up, look around and smell the roses of reality----patience, it sound like you care................Debra

[DonnaT]

As you mentioned, she's allowed to dress and look as she pleases. She is an adult.

You've offered advise, and she's not taken it, so what you do is, ignore how she looks, or, if you can't get comfortable in her presence, don't go out with her anymore.


I have not been in your shoes but I can fully understand where you are coming from Lizeth. If your friend wants to dress and act like a Ringling Bailey sideshow it's his option. I would have to tell him that your personal intention of going in public is not to see how much attention can be drawn to you. When he dresses over the top, now people are looking at you as well, either tone it down or shop by yourself. I am sure you and the GG would had a much better time by yourselves.
Her, not "him".

[Susan_Xdress]

I think I have to echo Ellie,

One of the great divides – Those trying to quietly blend and the 'look-at-me' net-stockings, six inch heels and micro-mini brigade.

I think we all have our arena’s in which we are more comfortable and that is what makes it fun. Personally I don’t think that the two can comfortably share the same space.

[Sister Rachel]

Spot on, Susan. Personally I don't want to hide or deny my girl-self, but I certainly don't want to throw it in people's faces!

Hmm .. I said "girl-self", but as a human being of fifty-four summers, that should be "woman-self" I suppose?

[April_Ligeia]

A few years ago, I was out with some friends and a young lady passed by us on the street. I remember looking at her and thinking, wow, what a nice body, and I really like that shirt. One of my friends yelled out, "Nice ass!" She turned around and, of course, I quickly averted my eyes, but she set her eyes on me as if I were the one who yelled the comment. Why? Because I'm 6'5" and was the tallest guy in the group, that's why. I stopped hanging out with this guy because, in my opinion, he did not bring enough to the table as a friend to outweigh the amount of embarassment he caused me. This is something only you can decide about your friend. She actually sounds like she might be a funny character and worth hanging around to watch her in action, but of course you would be a better judge of that.

[jillleanne]

Ho Lizeth. Sorry for your bad experience and frankly, happy it was not me there. Go with your heart. If you do not feel comfortable with her, tell her so if she calls to go out and tell her why. Also, being on 'mones and having hair removal done does not make a transition. There is far more to it than that. I would agree she likes the drag image and that's fine for her, but not you so why participate. You know what to do I'm sure.

[Cynthia Anne]

This may come off sounding a little rude! But by know way do I mean to be rude! There's an old song called ''mine your own buisness and you won't be minding mine''! She's your friend! Let her be! If people are gaulking at her they wont even notice your inperfections! Hugs!

[Marleena]

Lizeth your friend sounds like she's comfortable with herself, her look, and doesn't mind the extra attention. It also sounds like she's set in her ways and won't take advice. I think each time you go out with her it will be more of the same. So you need to decide if you want go out with her again.

[Sheren Kelly]

I too want to be supportive of my friends, but they have to make an effort as well. Seems like there are many who have a distorted concept of what feminine style is all about, and there are always fashion catastrophies we each are guilty of. Still, this is your opportunity to get a nice gift for your friend like a women's style book.

When I decided I was serious about my femme side, I picked up several books such as:
Looking Terrific...Emily Cho
Your Executive Image...Victoria Seitz
among others.

Unless your friend needs to repeat every fashion mistake, (s)he should put a little effort into learning how image professionals put together looks. You may want to give your friend an inexpensive gift of something similar to the books that helped me.

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

As you said, you've been crossdressing longer than she's been transitioning. Don't forget that for her, all this stuff is still pretty new and tempting. She's basically finally given herself permission to own and wear the things she's wanted to wear all this time and so she's probably going a little overboard with it, and in addition, hasn't really figured out from experience yet what actually works and doesn't. And even though you and your GG friend were trying to help her, sometimes people don't react well to unsolicited advice.

I say just give her some time, and I bet once the luster and change has died down a bit for her, she'll learn to tone down the image.

[Vickie_CDTV]

This issue is quite common, and this has been discussed at length in the TV/TS community since the early days of Transvestia magazine in the early 60s, if not longer. Unfortunately, there is still no clear cut answer, it really depends on your comfort level.

I'd try to discuss it with her as gently as possible. I would have the discussion and frame it in the context of her needing to blend so she can function in society as a woman and survive; this way you can leave any personal objections you have about her presentation out of the discussion completely. If it works, you can find out why she dresses as she does and if she would be open to dressing in a more blend-able manner AND not hurt her feelings by inserting your objections about her presentation into it. Keep it as objective as possible.

Even if she is unwilling to tone things down right now, I would not be too quick to cut her off completely. Good trans friends can be hard to find, and she may change in time as she progresses in her transition. This person seems to enjoy dressing over the top, and there certainly is nothing wrong with that; however, going fulltime and dressing like she does currently may end up being anything but fun (it is hard enough for many who go fulltime and present to blend!) She may end up toning down her image (whether she wants to or not) by necessity to survive. On the other hand, she may also learn that it is the dressing she enjoys and go back to being occasional/part time dressing where her ability to survive is not in play.

[Rianna Humble]

I guess when it comes right down to it, I've sort of decided I'm more CD than TG. And while I love everything feminine, theres still much in 'guy life' I would hate to give up.. But this thread isn't about me... or is it?

I recently came out to a friend who decided to make the monumental step and decided she was going to transition. We decided we should do the girls day out. Also, we hooked up with a GG friend of both of ours. Well, it turns out I've been CDing longer than she has been transitioning. She was a bit of a late bloomer, but oh well. My friend is already on hormones and has had facial hair removed.

I really have no decent way to say this. And I am feeling completely hypocritical, like all those idiots who say 'Oh, I have no problem with them... BUT'.. horsepucky. And frankly I'm a bit ashamed of myself because as a CD, the whole point is looking like and wearing what you want.

The last sentence I've quoted says a lot. Please remember that cross-dressing and transition are two completely different things. My ex-manicurist summed up what your friend may be going through quite well when she said "It will be like going through puberty in middle age, later on you will look back and ask yourself 'how could I have worn that?' but at the time it will seem perfectly OK".

If you want to be a true friend to this person, perhaps you could sit down with her and discuss the feelings that you were having whilst you were out; but if you do, please don't rush to judgement. If you were embarrassed, what does that tell you about yourself and your friendship towards the other person? (There is no right answer to that question)


I have not been in your shoes but I can fully understand where you are coming from Lizeth. If your friend wants to dress and act like a Ringling Bailey sideshow it's his option. I would have to tell him that your personal intention of going in public is not to see how much attention can be drawn to you. When he dresses over the top, now people are looking at you as well, either tone it down or shop by yourself. I am sure you and the GG would had a much better time by yourselves.

On the basis that I try to always live by the maxim "never ascribe to malice what can be explained by seer stupidity" I will assume for now that you weren't being deliberately nasty when you referred to Lizeth's TS friend with the wrong gender.

[Kristy_K]

The last sentence I've quoted says a lot. Please remember that cross-dressing and transition are two completely different things. My ex-manicurist summed up what your friend may be going through quite well when she said "It will be like going through puberty in middle age, later on you will look back and ask yourself 'how could I have worn that?' but at the time it will seem perfectly OK".

I will have to agree with Rianna. I transition three months ago. I consider myself to be somewhat flamboyant. Other people says it very flamboyant or it is the Kristy look. To me it is like growing up. People says I am about 17 going on 19 now.
When you transition, it is more than CDing. It accepting yourself as the person you are. It is looking in the mirror and liking what you see. Because if you don't like what you see than no one else will like you either. To transition is a growing up experience. Just as little girls need to learn and understand and go through there life experiences to reach maturity. So does the person who is transitioning. I myself want to be a classier type of lady. In the beginning I would wear bright nail polish. Now I like white tips. I used to wear tight clothing but now I don't. Even so I am 6'2 I still love my 3" heels and wear them as much as I can.

[Tina B.]

Liz, thank you, I've always wondered just who the fashion police where, now I know! Judge not, Yadda, yadda, yadda, you know how it goes!
Tina B.

[Dana7]

This issue is quite common, and this has been discussed at length in the TV/TS community since the early days of Transvestia magazine in the early 60s, if not longer. Unfortunately, there is still no clear cut answer, it really depends on your comfort level.

I'd try to discuss it with her as gently as possible. I would have the discussion and frame it in the context of her needing to blend so she can function in society as a woman and survive; this way you can leave any personal objections you have about her presentation out of the discussion completely. If it works, you can find out why she dresses as she does and if she would be open to dressing in a more blend-able manner AND not hurt her feelings by inserting your objections about her presentation into it. Keep it as objective as possible.

Even if she is unwilling to tone things down right now, I would not be too quick to cut her off completely. Good trans friends can be hard to find, and she may change in time as she progresses in her transition. This person seems to enjoy dressing over the top, and there certainly is nothing wrong with that; however, going fulltime and dressing like she does currently may end up being anything but fun (it is hard enough for many who go fulltime and present to blend!) She may end up toning down her image (whether she wants to or not) by necessity to survive. On the other hand, she may also learn that it is the dressing she enjoys and go back to being occasional/part time dressing where her ability to survive is not in play.

Lizeth,

I agree with Vickie. I think you should counsel your friend and let her know how you feel about how she is presenting herself embarrasses you. Be gentle about it, but honest. As a friend, that is what she needs from you--your honesty. And if she makes you uncomfortable, then don't go out with her but let her know why and tell her that you still want to be her friend but it is making you embarrassed to be with her in public. Tell her you can still do things together in a private setting, but that you don't want to go out and feel embarrassed, and say exactly why.

I think that if I were in your shoes, I would handle this as though I were a GG. After all, this is about being a woman, isn't it? What you're talking about here is the issue of whether you want to be with someone whose maturity level as a woman is in a different place than yours. We've all seen it. There seems to be a progression that tracks like the same thing all girls go through when growing up.

Girls are immature when young. They do silly things. And their mothers look at them knowing that they are being how young girls are: immature. A woman becomes mature by experiencing life and by learning from other women. Life will teach your immature friend what works and what doesn't. In other words, your silly friend will trip along and do her silly things until someone becomes annoyed with her and reads her the riot act. And when your friend has her ears pinned back enough times, she will come to her senses and grow up.

You know exactly what I mean. There are people out there who have no problem telling others exactly what they are doing wrong. And it's only a matter of time until she crosses the path of someone who takes her to task with her immature conduct. A wise mother will counsel her daughter and try to draw her to maturity by reason. It sounds like you've done that. When that doesn't work, you just have to let her go and find out for herself that what she is doing just doesn't work.

And then it becomes for you the choice of whether you want to suffer through her growing pains or let her suffer by herself. Because it will eventually happen that she will be confronted by someone else as annoyed as you are and it won't be pretty. I don't think you want to be associated with that and you will likely be quite embarrassed when it eventually happens. You don't have to cut off your friendship with her completely, just let her know that you would rather not go out together in public right now, and let her know why.

GGs don't hang around other GGs who are acting immaturely because like all friendships, they know that a person is judged by the company they keep. Why should this situation with you and your friend be any different? You should tell your friend exactly what she is doing wrong. Then if she doesn't listen, do exactly what another GG would do--leave her to find out for herself. Believe me, she will.

And you'll save yourself a lot of embarrassment by distancing yourself from this obviously immature person. Be ready to comfort and console her when she does hit that speed bump and come to her senses. But for now, I say do as a GG would do--it's time to let this bird try out her wings and fly but if she dive bombs and loses a few feathers, you don't want to be along for the ride.