Crossdresser Going Into the Army [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 02:46 PM

Hey everyone, my name's Alexis, and I've wanted to go in the Army my whole life pretty much, but also been a crossdresser my whole life and one thing I got a say, I think I've had the good fortune to actually embrace and accept this part of me during college, before going in the Army, because I know what I'm going to do with it.

Both my parents, my older sister, and my whole fraternity from college know about it, and I've go out to LGBT bars and other places I consider safe. When I started college I was trying to deny this part of me, but over the last few years I've found ways to safely embrace it even while I was in ROTC.

Anyway, I'm posting partly because I know I'll have challenges as a crossdresser and would love some insights, but don't want to stop being myself. Both the crossdressing and my desire to serve are immense parts of me.

I plan to put my safety above all else going in the Army, and I expect I'll enjoy my time in the Army, even if I don't end up staying long for reasons related to CDing or them trying to make cuts.

So anyway, I wanted to know what people think of my plans....

Right now I still hang around a predominantly lesbian LGBT bar while dressed up and occasionally go shopping carefully in some places. For me just doing this on occasion is enough, and I've gone extended periods without it (don't think I'll have an urge to buy a burqa over in Kabul), but I don't want to run from me either completely and so my plan was to use the internet to get in touch with supportive people in cities relatively close to my duty station (probably at least 30 minutes away though) when I get to one, and have a fraternity brother of mine who I trust mail all my things (clothes, shoes, wig, etc.) for me to someone who I can safely go out with occasionally as Alexis.

I'm curious if anyone would have any critiques or suggestions to add to these plans. I'm pretty sure I won't have too much trouble keeping this from the Army, but then I've still yet to start Basic. Also, another additional question, I am wondering about shaving these days in the military. One of my CD friends who's in says it's not a big deal, people might look at you a little weird or even tease, but it doesn't go too far or prevent advancing.

I'm going to have a lot of other questions actually related to this, but I don't want to write a whole book just yet, lol

Beverley Sims

12-25-2011, 03:12 PM

Be VERY CAREFUL.
However innocent your intentions may be.
I have been challenged a few times photographing trains at the pentagon.
EVEN after getting permission. (It is a tastefully decorated subway station in Washington DC.)
Remember all communications are monitored in some way out of military establishments.
Keywords like sex, bombs, drugs, and rock and roll are amongst the more interesting they look at.
Don't go racing around in burkahs or even wear panties.
Whilst at home you may get a slap on the wrist, but over there you may be better off taking a drug overdose.
Even in a green zone these are extremely risky undertakings.
Remember always look over your shoulder and "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU"
Even this site is not a place to vent your plans, people put 2 + 2 together and it is not hard to work out the puzzle.
More---
Check around before joining as the military have changed their outlook towards Gays and I assume people like us.
It is more favorable now. I wish you every success in the military, I kept to myself and did not go around patting other soldiers on the bum as it meant a dis honourable discharge then.

Debglam

12-25-2011, 03:14 PM

Alexis,

I spent 25 years in the Navy and got a lot out of it. I did NOT dress while I was in however. One thing you need to be clearly aware of is that none of this new openess with the repeal of DADT applies to transgender. First, TG is considered an "illness" that you can be separated for. Second, military "justice" is about discipline, not justice per se. The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and the regulations of the individual services have some pretty broad provisions. Being caught crossdressing, caught with female clothing, etc. COULD be considered as a punishable offence under some of these provisions. I don't have my UCMJ in front of me, but the "conduct unbecoming" provisions come to mind.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you. The military gave me an education, a number of life skills, and actually was how I met my wife, so in a sense they gave me a family too. You just need to go in with eyes wide open. Feel free to PM me if you would like to talks some more.

Debby

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 03:15 PM

Debglam

12-25-2011, 03:34 PM

I mean, I'm not planning on even getting online about it while out on deployment. Are they really going to monitor my internet usage from my laptop that much? When I'm in the privacy of my room back in the States will I be unsafe just posting on forums and sending emails about it?

It all depends how you would be accessing the internet. If it is on a government computer or if you are accessing through a government network, then you have no expectation of privacy.

miaTX86

12-25-2011, 03:42 PM

Even though it is probably more accepted now than it has been in the past, I would believe getting a TS SCI clearance would be more difficult with a cross-dressing background. Having clearance issues could put a real damper on a career.

Stephanie-L

12-25-2011, 03:53 PM

You did not say how you would be going in. You mentioned college and ROTC but then talk of Basic, so Officer or Enlisted? If Officer, expect to have no privacy or chance to dress even if not deployed for at least the first year, you will probably be sharing quarters with other guys. If enlisted do not even expect to see much of the civilian world for at least six months, then do not be surprised if your life is closely controled for quite a while, possibly years, usually until you make at least E3 or better. As was noted, if you use a government computer or network, you have no privacy. If you live on base your quarters are subject to inspection at any time, so no place to hide anything. If you are in a position that requires a security clearance there is a very strong possibilty that during the investigation for this you will be discovered. I have heard of CDs with Top Secret clearances, but the CDing was only discovered well after the original clearance was granted, back in pre-internet days. Usually the problem is if CDing can be used as a blackmail tool against you. Even a private computer in quarters on base may be subject to search, so consider carefully. With the recent Wikileaks thing with the person blaming GID, I do not see the military becoming any easier on CD/TG/TS folks anytime soon. I also am not trying to dissuade you, I loved the time I spent in uniform, just giving you info. Good Luck...........Stephanie

Pythos

12-25-2011, 05:09 PM

This day and age one REALLY needs to examine their reasoning for joining the military. Many join for what many are FINALLY thinking is the wrong reason and that in financial help in life. I am sorry, I do not understand any one at this time that willfully would join the military. Why do I say this?

Look at what has happened to our fighting men and women after these wars we are in. We ended up losing MORE people in this ten year war (that is LONGER than WWII) than we lost on 9/11, the event that got us into this mess. Those that went for what were the right reasons back after that act of terrorism (that may not have happened had people not been so ho hum when an aircraft gets hijacked, I mean after all, who would have thought of using an aircraft as a missile?.....oh Lets see...Germany, Japan, Italy, The Brits, French...all those countries that had aircraft (though the Germans and Japanese had them be manned, and only the Japanese had truly suicidal weapons). But of course instead of having passengers trained to take down would be Hijackers...ala Air Al, we just are told to just let what happens happen, and the plane be taken off course.

Those men and women joining for the right reason, were abused and mistreated by our government. Yes there are many that will fare just fine, but there are many many more that are messed up for life, and for what? What is it that has been accomplished? The region is still a mess, and will remain such until it is converted into a glass bowl. (Something I sadly feel is an inevitablitly)

I think anyone at this time that is joining the military as it is is not quite thinking right. I know there could be family history and stuff, but you know there are circles of tradition that can stand to be broken. My father got royally screwed over by the Navy, despite getting an honorable discharge. His GI bill was only half paid, and he got NO VA rights.

On top of that, you are acknowledging that you have a characteristic that the military will not like. One that you have been very open about (good for you on that count). In this day and age you don't think that will follow you into military life? Look what is happening with Bradley Manning. What a crappy argument of defense for what he did (however you feel about his actions, what he did has NOTHING to do with him being Trans Gendered)

I hate to bring in this strong of an example, but I would think you wanting to be in the Army would be like an Irish Catholic wanting to join her majesty's armed forces. Not quite foolhardy, but still not very wise.

I for one would not want to be part of an organisation that hates a quality of me that hurts no one, ruins no ones lives, and for the most part should not matter. There is also the whole thing of when you sign your name on the line you become United States Property. I think there is a passage in the Bible that is against such a thing, and it is not a mistranslation like much of the Bible (Deut 22:5, for one) but a clearly stated thing. Such as, you belong to the lord, or something like that.

But that is my honest opinion.

NOTE: Please do not think I do not honor those that have fought this countries wars, most notably the battles of WWII. But I view war as something that needs to go away, and frankly the only reason they happen is because people ALL over the world join those forces that even the founding fathers said should not exist in peace time. The military is VERY wasteful of resources, and is in many ways are harbinger of horrible "traditions". The above statement of "behavior of not becoming an officer" or what have you. For crying out loud, the military exists for one reason and one reason only, to destroy things. Every single thing in the military is in one way or another connected with the destruction of someone else's property or lives.

I wish more people would view war as an outdated, and in many ways, immature way of dealing with conflicts. Osama Bin Laden should have been sniped, as should Sadam Husien. Snipers and spies. Oh yea, that's right we have that stupid law that Ford signed prohibiting the assassination of key figures, I forgot about that bit of wisdom.

When I was growing up I was friends who fought in WWII, and every last one of them wishes that they had not had to do the things they did. They know it was for a good cause, but still many of them were against this country EVER entering another war.

WWII should have been the last of such large scale stupidity.

KandisTX

12-25-2011, 05:33 PM

I served in the military BEFORE the DADT "law" existed. When my CDing was "discovered" thanks to a vindictive ex-wife my life became a living hell. I lost my Top Secret clearance, I was investigated by the USAFOSI, and sent to multiple Psychological examinations. In the end, while they could not prove I was mentally unstable and that I was NOT a security threat, I was still forced out of the military under a "Reduction In Force" program.

You cannot be this open with your CDing and think that the military is going to be "okay" with this aspect of your life. Not only will you have to deal with ignorance from some of the older NCO's and Officers, but your fellow recruits will NOT be your best buddies if they find out. Even though the military supposedly "frowns" on things like "Blanket Parties", that kind of "justice" is still being doled out.

Ellyn

12-25-2011, 05:52 PM

OK. You asked for opinions. There are plenty of good reasons to NOT join the military. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ARihMrxdjU It is insanity.

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 05:53 PM

Ok.... think I need to be more clear about some things. My parents and older sister know. My fraternity from school knows. A few friends from the LGBT community who I hang out with know. Most people who know me, however, do NOT know about Alexis, and I'm intending to keep it this way. I am still not exactly "out" and have no intention of trying to be while in the military or letting anyone in the military (other than three fraternity brothers I have in the Army who already know) find out about me being a crossdresser. I appreciate the concerns, but while I've accepted myself as a crossdresser, I did not mean to imply that I'm going to be going after a security clearance with a "crossdressing background."

I've graduated college with a bachelors degree but did not stay in ROTC to the end to commission, so I'm going in as an E4 Specialist. I already understood about government computers and networks and was not planning to keep anything in the barracks, which was why I was asking about my plan as far as having someone, well off base, keep stuff for me that I would have mailed to the person, so I could hang out somewhere safe well off base (i.e. an LGBT bar). Furthermore, I'm talking about this as far as when I actually get to a permanent duty station. The burqa thing was a joke, and I'm quite confident that I can go through the year long deployments without anything to do with crossdressing. What I'm asking about is the safety basically of getting my clothes stored with someone well off base, dressing well off base, and hanging out somewhere LGBT friendly well off base.

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 05:57 PM

Ellyn, I'm asking for opinions soley on my plans to occasionally crossdress without letting the military find out, and if you have never served in the military, I'd actually rather ask you incidentally to keep your opinions to yourself entirely because the point was to get some insider perspective also.

Michelle.M

12-25-2011, 06:15 PM

I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 06:30 PM

I'm aware of the regulations and I appreciate your well-founded concern, especially with you being someone who has been serving. I'm very much planning on not letting the military know about this part of me, which is why I'm asking if my plans on how to deal with the crossdressing part of me sound reasonable in terms of safety. Am I likely to be caught off base on the weekends with the previously mentioned plans? Has anyone else done what I'm talking about or something similar?

Michelle.M

12-25-2011, 06:46 PM

I . . . I'm asking if my plans on how to deal with the crossdressing part of me sound reasonable in terms of safety. Am I likely to be caught off base on the weekends with the previously mentioned plans? Has anyone else done what I'm talking about or something similar?

Ah, I misunderstood. OK, this depends on many factors. Some posts have a higher number of homophobic, transphobic and misogynistic Soldiers than at others, and some career fields tend to attract candidates who are, um, somewhat less enlightened than others.

The Army is a pressure cooker of sexual assault, and don't think that croossdressers do not get assaulted. The percentage of sexual assaults in society at large is between 15 and 20% (18% seems to be the average) whereas the incidence of sexual assault in the military is between 38-48%. This is documented and the DoD knows about it and is trying to address it. Add homophobia / transphobia to the mix and all I can say is you'd better keep your eyes open.

Also, some areas where you might be stationed will be more trans-friendly than others. This will have some impact on your safety while out and about in general, but if you are spotted by a Soldier you know and he snaps a cell phone photo and takes it back to post all bets are off. That's assuming that this is all that happens. The incidence of sexual assault by straight Soldiers against other straight Soldiers (I'm talking about males) is shockingly high. We're talking all the way up to and including rape and gang rape, and again, DoD is aware and is trying to bring that down.

Imagine what will happen if you meet some of THOSE guys! If they won't stop at raping a guy who looks and acts male then you could find yourself in a very dangerous situation.

I do not go out in my military town. I leave town and do all my socializing there. In a couple of months it won't be an issue, but for now I consider myself to have no friends when it comes to this. I have a very close friend whom I am dying to discuss this with, and even he won't know about this until I am a civilian.

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 07:04 PM

Thanks Michelle. That's more the sort of answer I was looking for, and would like to hear more of from other people.

While I think it's unwise on their part, largely for the regulations mentioned, which again I've been aware of, I've spoken with at least two crossdressers online whose units completely know, one of them a Cav Scout who says everyone in his unit up to his Battalion CO knows, and while he has received a fair share of harrassment, no one is trying to kick him out as long as he doesn't take it outside his room on base and changes off base if he has to do it off base. His unit has known for like 3 years, since before DADT was repealed, and he has reenlisted.

Anyway, I have the strongest intentions of taking maximum precautions to try and make sure I'm not found out, but also if someone does snap a photo on the cell phone, is there also anything I can say to make sure I'm not discharged on terms other than honorable? I mean, yeah, so supposing I was seen crossdressing, that doesn't necessitate that I'm a crossdresser much less someone with a "gender identity disorder" does it?

Beverley Sims

12-25-2011, 07:33 PM

I was the first to weigh in here and am astounded at the level of GOOD advice I have ever read on any thread.
Most of it quoting military regulations.
Weigh these suggestions up, and as you have the mindset that you want to sign up remember the difficulties,
Living off base, friends you TRUST at the weekends, all costly and risky. Your friends are 3/7 days at the best.
During the week in a pub while you are on base. " We know a poof that works on the base with rockets" Someone hears the keywords "poof and rockets".
And then "POOF."
I wish you well and weigh up the advice you have had here tonight London Time.

Loni

12-25-2011, 07:39 PM

I mean, I'm not planning on even getting online about it while out on deployment. Are they really going to monitor my internet usage from my laptop that much? When I'm in the privacy of my room back in the States will I be unsafe just posting on forums and sending emails about it?

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

Michelle.M

12-25-2011, 07:40 PM

. . . I've spoken with at least two crossdressers online whose units completely know, one of them a Cav Scout who says everyone in his unit up to his Battalion CO knows, and while he has received a fair share of harrassment, no one is trying to kick him out as long as he doesn't take it outside his room on base and changes off base if he has to do it off base. His unit has known for like 3 years, since before DADT was repealed, and he has reenlisted.

This is troubling, because that CO is simply not doing his job, and that only gives your friend a temporary safe haven. If a future unit commander is the sort who follows the rules then your friend is gone. Just like that. Worse, when they try to figure out why the reenlistment happened then someone else (and perhaps not just the commander) will likely get into trouble for allowing it.

So the problem is that unless you are deep stealth your survival is wholly dependent on either someone not doing their job or someone who decides to take a risk and shield you. That is way too dependent on others' incompetence or their good will, neither of which give you any protection when the spit hits the fan.

Like I said earlier, I weighed all the factors and decided that the Army was not the best place for me, and I really am counseling you to not try and mix your gender expression with military service. I know you're earnestly trying to find a way to make this work, but I really do advise against it.

KiwiHeather

12-25-2011, 07:59 PM

As an ex navy (NZ) and ex teritorial (Reserve army) I have an isnight into how two branches of the forces in NZ work. Although the current policies speak about acceptance and tolerance with those different from us (or the normal expectation of normal) in reality these views and rules are just there as window dressing. In the real world (in the trenches and in the lowers decks if you dont conform you will be singled out and victimised, humiliated and possibly harmed by the neandertals that are homophobic or affraid of differences. I would suggest keeping this CDing well hidden. Dont tell anyone, even a best mate as the realisation that you are not like them could be a turning point for your friendship (hell families and wifes have a hard enough time dealing with this stuff). As much as it pains me to say so you need to put this facet of your life on hold and repress it. By all means do what you wish in private (I mean off base and away from others other than accepting others - like us here) but keep this part of your life locked away and never become complacent and take any underwear to the base with you. It will be discovered at some stage and then your life will become harder than you can ever believe. I saw first hand how one of the guys I served with in the navy was treated by his best mates when it was discovered he was gay. His friends turned on him worse than his enemies (had to prove they werent like him I guess) and his carreer ended withing a few months and the NZ defence forces had an equal opportunities employment policy at that time (LGBT friendly culture and policies).

Be careful who you tell (I still wonder if my wife will out me in a fit of anger one day, so cant imagine having told someone I was just friends with), keep it hidden and repressed while away (people will notice stuff - BIG BROTHER is always watching ALWAYS!!!). Booze always loosens lips and the wrong people will hear what they shouldnt.

On the flip side the experiences and places I travelled were amazing once you learn to see beauty within all aspects of nature (A desert with moving dunes unmared by tracks or prints is amazing, snow cover can hid the damage of war and soften the egdes of broken buildings, the smiles of children who are still too young to buy into the propagander is priceless).

Just be careful, never complacent, travel with friends, never wander off on your own, watch out for local street vendors hawking their goods (keep some money in your pocket and leave your wallet tucked away inside a money belt against your stomach not in a back pocket), be wary of eating at street vendors, stay away from warm goats (or cows) milk as this is a sure fired way of getting a stomach complaint, drink from cans or bottles you have seen opened (dont put your drink down unless you dont intend to pick it up again), dont have drinks with ice in them (poor quality water supplies - dysentry again...), take a cheap camera with piles of memory cards because later on you memory will fade and no one will see what you have (speaking from experience here, but we didnt have digital cameras in my day), Above all have fun, embrace new cultures and be safe.

I never regret the things I have done just questioned the timing - LOL

PM if you want to chat more.

Regards,

H.

KiwiHeather

12-25-2011, 08:02 PM

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

Excellent point. I was always told it it couldnt be written on a post card and given to everyone of the crew for delivery to the correct recipient then it shouldnt be writen, typed or spoken. Nothing digital ever goes away ever...

Tracii G

12-25-2011, 08:45 PM

Your life belongs to the branch of service you join remember that.They are not understanding about TG issues or what you feel for that matter so keep that in mind.
If you join put your CDing aside while you are in there.They will look thru your mail trust me and if your friend mails you CD items they will see them.
I applaud you for joining I really do and I understand your desire to do so.
For your benefit put your other side on hold for the time being.
My drill Sgt said your heart belongs to your Momma your ass belongs to me and Uncle Sam.

ak88gurl

12-25-2011, 11:06 PM

@Tracii G: I'm not going to have crossdressing items mailed to me or brought on or anywhere near base. My plan was to wait until after I've been put at a duty station, find a support group or something, another CD, TG, LGBT individual, after I've been at my duty station for a while, and have my things mailed to THAT person to stay with. On weekends when that person is up for it, I'll go off base to do my thing entirely off base somewhere like an LGBT bar.

And question, am I in danger of being noticed just going on a forum like this using my personal computer in my room if I'm on base? I don't know how internet access works and if I'll be on a network constantly where they can/will see everything I go to.

KiwiHeather

12-25-2011, 11:31 PM

ak88gurl

12-26-2011, 12:03 AM

So what if I go use the internet on my laptop somewhere off base? Are they still going to have a way of finding all the sites I went to?

Stephenie S

12-26-2011, 12:09 AM

Your plans border on the insane.

If you can't put your crossdressing on hold for your enlistment, DON'T enlist.

S

ak88gurl

12-26-2011, 12:30 AM

Look, I will put it on hold if I have to, but excuse me Stephenie while I ask what your military background is and what's insane about my plans? Can you elaborate and add something to the discussion? Or do you feel that acting disgusted with my "insanity" is simply enough?

Clueless

12-26-2011, 12:37 AM

I don't think you are seeing things 100% rationally. You are joining a very close knit society (not even truly American in a sense, as you forfeit all of your rights to enlist) which views that important part of you as: a weakness, criminal & a mental disease. If you do join, forget about doing anything at all involved with Cding, for the whole time you are in. You life could be at risk if discovered. They just had another Code Red (http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/21/4138670/8-soldiers-charged-in-army-privates.html/) in Afghanistan which had nothing to do with Cding.

Don't believe everything someone, even friends, tells you about what it's like inside. Each persons experience will differ. You are putting way too much trust in things that are never foolproof. People & friends can turn on you. Laptops & E-Mail accounts can be hacked, etc. All your online postings can be traced back to you if someone has the time, resources & desire. In fact, that will possibly be a modern form of McCarthyism in the near future.

The only safe way to do anything that I could see, would be doing something off base while on leave. Again, be super careful. Do not keep or bring on base anything like clothes & pics, mail them home to your family. Do not keep or do anything Cding involved at all with your personal computer or cell phone, as you have zero 4th Amendment rights while serving. Even if you live off base or keep a storage locker, figure they can be searched if they wanted to. If you want to E-Mail, do it off hours/on leave at a public library on their computers. Use a drop E-Mail account set up for that purpose only. Even doing that has some small risk to it. It's a small world, you never know who you will run into later & who will remember you. Don't talk about it to anyone either. Loose lips sinks ships. Focus on serving, saving your pay, and getting out alive & intact. Good luck.

McKailah

12-26-2011, 01:07 AM

I am a crossdresser in the Army. I have been in the Army for over 7 years, and I have been crossdressing for over 15 years. There are challenges, but if you can go for a year or so without dressing, you should do fine. The hardest part was not dressing when I was in Iraq for 15 months. Luckily, my wife is supportive, so that helps a lot.

The internet will not be a factor unless you are living in the barracks, or using the internet at the office. If you are in either of these locations, CID does, in fact, periodically check the traffic to ensure there is no browsing of things like child pornography and the such, but crossdressing is not really looked for.

As many people know, the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy has ended, so if you are homosexual or bisexual, no one can do anything to you about it. Crossdressing, though, falls under transvesticism under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or UCMJ. There is no actual law against it, ut there is a regulation that states transvesticism does not meet the Army Standard. No punitive actions can be taken against you for this act, though. The only thing that they could get you for is if you go out dressed as a woman to official events. Yes, you are a soldier 24/7, but MOST commands know that what you do in your spare time is your business. If you shave your entire body, simply tell people you were on a swim team in high school or back home and you have to keep shaving or you break out. It is that simple...or just tell everyone that you hate body hair. If that is good enough for someone like Vin Diesel, it is good enough for everyone else.

I would say DO NOT check any of your crossdressing sites or emails when you are at work. At home, there is nothing they can say, unless you are doing something illegal, like buying/selling drugs, or child pornography.

As far as having a friend of yours mail all your stuff...just take it with you. You will not be searched, and you won't have to explain it to anyone. DON'T take anything to Basic or AIT, but when you get to your first duty station...if it is not overseas...take it with you or have the movers pack it up and move it. The moving company cannot disclose anything that is in the box without being extremely general, like clothing, shoes, papers, books, and they are not military. They are civilian workers for a civilian company who is contracted by the Department of Defense. You don't have to worry about anything when you are moving your stuff. Plus, by taking it with you, you are saving all the money of shipping and postage, you know it won't get lost, and you can file claims against it if anything is damaged by the movers. I have had moving companies move my dresses, wigs, heels, underwear, and everything else overseas twice. Once to Korea, and once to Saudi Arabia. If it can make it through Saudi Arabia, who has the strictest customs department in the world, it can make it anywhere. Deployments are different, though. Everything is searched during a deployment. Don't deploy with anything except maybe a bra, a pair of panties, and maybe a single skirt and blouse. You may have free time with no roommates where you can dress in the privacy of your own room or tent. If you don't want word getting out that you have these things, though...don't take them at all...battle buddies will play pranks by moving all your stuff around and will find them.

With this all being said, by all means, join whichever service you would like. If you have any other additional questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to look at my profile, and contact me via any of the methods there. If you are contacting me outside of this site, please let me know that you are the crossdresser going into the Army. I have plenty of info and tips, so please don't hesitate to ask.

robyn1114

12-26-2011, 01:19 AM

Trust me if you're CAREFUL you can serve and still enjoy some of your feminine side. I just finished 20yrs acitive duty Air Force.

TVKellyNY

12-26-2011, 01:25 AM

Sarah_sarahcd

12-26-2011, 01:32 AM

I apologize for a response that really has nothing to contribute but I find this incredibly interesting. As someone who has followed this issue via NPR and the web, I have been waiting for this to present itself in a space that I frequent (although recently I just 'officially' joined the forum... yes a lurker). Having known some military MEN (haughty and rather men's men) who were a bit homophobic and a few who were lovers of TGs (sexy men I might add ;) ) I just find this incredibly interesting because the military (albeit regimented and with a lot of protocol), embodies people who are of all ilks. This of course does not mean that the official p.o.v. is that way and I of course understand that. I guess I just want you all to know that this is an interesting, relevant, modern question that is incredibly relevant to this issue. I apologize for not having anything to contribute but my enthusiasm for the topic.

Kisses,
Sarah

oh, PS: thank you to those who have served and those who are enlisted. May God bless you for your service and sacrifice. (I support the troop and perhaps not the policy)

TeaganNataliaAcheson

12-26-2011, 02:12 AM

I served four years in the Army National Guard, and my time is not fully up. Although I am being discharged for being transexual, I am only being discharged upon my own request. For me because I am living in a fairly conservative area and live full time as female, I cannot continue to live in the area as I have exausted and been excluded from most employment opportunities. Now as far as regulations go I should be removed from duty, but my chain of command as it turns out valued me as a soldier enough to try and keep me in.

There are some things to look out for though.
Crossdressing is against regulations and is deemed "conduct unbecoming." For doing so you can be discharged less than honorably.
Watch out for being to open about it. I was foolish. My whole unit knows now. I got lucky because people already liked me. And it didn't affect me much. Also some of the stigmas about crossdressing verses haveing diagnosable GID may differ. Though I am not sure about that either.
Also I would personally advise against joining active duty as you never know who you will run into off duty. Even as national guard, I have run into other soldiers out and about. And only one or two of them that I know live in my city.
I also would refrain from using military systems to contact other crossdressers about crossdressing. You never know who is watching. Before I came out to my commander, he already knew I was transexual because he had found a video of me online. So even using civilian systems can be risky.

I have never been careful and it has cost me a deployment which would have provided my transition in full.

I hope this has helped. :)

ak88gurl

12-26-2011, 07:34 AM

Thanks for all your responses.

@Sarah: Expression of enthusiasm and interest for the subject is fine too, maybe even helps get more discussion. I just don't want to look at another 2007 Democracy Now video about going into Iran (not even going to begin to discuss that on here) or anything similar as an argument for why I shouldn't go in the military.

@Teagan: I'm so sorry to hear about the deployment and being found out but I'm glad to hear that your CoC still valued you some as a soldier. I would assume that means they're not giving you a dishonorable discharge but maybe a medical or something.

@Kelly: I appreciate your concern and don't totally mind people who haven't served giving input. But if all someone can tell me is I'm "insane," or oil wars blah blah, the war is horrible etc. everyone is entitled to their opinion but those things don't contribute anything to the actual conversation I'm trying to have. Not interested in how anyone feels about our involvement in any war or personal opinions of my mental state, but Kelly, your post is relevant and I do want to be careful about trusting people. As far as my "openness" I told a few family members one at a time and people from my college fraternity one at a time, who are not only like family but unlike many in the military are all pretty open, and also discrete and intelligent people (openness be damned, I don't tell anyone if I have even a suspicion they might open their mouths about it and let it slip). Few people mentioned things like getting a security clearance with a crossdressing background, but I actually already have the secret security clearance and I don't have an out in the open crossdressing background (just a circle of friends who know). I wasn't sure however how much they could monitor my internet usage on my laptop if I'm living on base, but was trying to find out about that and now having been told I'll simply take anything CDing related to internet usage off base and not on military networks.

@McKailah: Awesome response. I'd imagine having a supportive wife and living off base probably helps a lot with this. I'm single so, no such luck for me unfortunately. Also, going in as an E4 (got my bachelors) I'll probably be living in the barracks a while, which was why my plans was to have the stuff mailed, and not to me but to someone supportive I'd eventually find living well off base (like someone from a TG support group or something) if I'm at a station long enough to worry about it. Also, taking stuff on a deployment is definitely not something I'm going to try. At one point in my life when I was trying to "quit" I went two and half years without dressing. It's not a period I would I would like to go for now if I can help it, but if I need to I feel confident that I can. I'll handle the year long deployments fine, especially as I'll be busy doing the military stuff, which may suck at times but is something I will embrace because it's like a part of me as well. I've actually done periods of military training of a couple weeks while I was in ROTC of up to 4 weeks, much shorter than any OSUT but what I can say about it is I couldn't get enough training and enjoyed it and/or was challenged enough that I didn't really think about CDing.

McKailah

12-26-2011, 10:49 AM

AK, just because someone didn't serve doesn't mean they can't have a valid point. I think everyone fully understands how well compartmental you plan to keep things. On paper, it sounds pretty well thought out and should work. But then you have real life. Using your laptop off base, not connected to ANY government network should be OK. But your laptop would be on base when you're not using it, correct? If it's there, it can be looked into. Also, take into account crowd mentality. Each guy in your unit, alone, might be OK with it if they found out. But once someone else knows, now they have to distance themselves from it, and that lone figure starts to become a group. They all egg each other on. Knowledge is power, and power can be corrupted. You would be dependent on someone else knowing about you. If there was a falling out between you, or anyone you met at any outside club, they would have some power over you. Hopefully nothing like that would happen, but are you willing to hand over that much potential power of yourself to someone else? No one can answer for you, only you can. It does truly suck that the 2 can't be mixed, but that's life. Along with others that have stated it, I hope you really do think this over long and hard, and all the possible outcomes. I wish you well on your journey, whichever path you do decide to take. You have much more guts than I.

TVKellyNY,

Actually, those who haven't served, or who know not how the Military works, should not offer advice on how to do things on or off post regarding this issue. People who serve still have their rights. Illegal search and seizure still apply, so nothing is going to be searched or looked into unless you are going on a deployment. When you are entering the gates at a post, if you have a military ID, you just go through. The guards look at your ID, look to make sure there aren't any other people in your vehicle (by looking through the window) and send you on your way. I don't know what the big deal is with the internet situation either. As long as you aren't using the government network, which is ONLY located in your office, you are good. The only things you have to make sure you don't view on post is child pornography and other illegal stuff like that. A laptop cannot be looked into just because it is on post. CID has to have reasonable evidence to seize your computer and look into it. They can monitor traffic, but they are only looking for illegal activity. They could care less about anything else.

I have been outed through Facebook to my Commander. It was a few weeks ago. It was initially embarrassing, but legally, there is nothing they can do about it. The only way you will get into trouble in the military for crossdressing is if your roommate finds out, asks you not to do it around him, and you do it anyway, OR if you attend an official function dressed up.

Other than that...join, and have fun being yourself.

Jonianne

12-26-2011, 12:14 PM

I enjoyed my service time during the 70's, but had to lie about being a cd'er when I first enlisted. I think the question was "do you wear womens cloths" or something to that effect. I think the consensus is that the military is not as uniform as we always think it is and that you may never be found out or you may be found out and the local command may not care or you may be found out and they will care, worse case senario.

With all your best laid plans, it's still going to be a risk. If you get a secret clearance, the FBI will be around asking some of your family and friends about you. They may or may not ask about cd'ing specificly, but who knows what your friends may volunteer. The odds are you will be OK, but it's up to you to take that risk.

I think if I were to do it over again, I might would serve as a DoD civilian employee instead. That way you can still serve your country without all the rigamoroles of military life, get better pay and still enjoy the benifits of seeing the world on the governments dime.

AngieCD

12-26-2011, 01:14 PM

I didn't catch what MOS you are going in for, but let me offer some insight from what I know. I spent a little over 4 years as an enlisted Infantryman, went to OCS and became a Signal Corps officer. I didn't buy my first skirt until I was in OCS, but I did have a lot of TS/TG pictures on my computer. One day my roomate let someone else use my computer and my stash was found. Other than a whole lot of teasing - seemed that the entire company knew about it, nothing was said - and I was selected for OCS by the commanding general of the division at the recommendation of all my commanders from the brigade on down. Infantrymen are known for having odd fetishes anyway, so I just blended in. Depending on where you go, your chances of being able to dress in your home are slim - most likely you'll live in the barracks. That said, the new barracks tend to have separate private bedrooms with a shared bathroom/kitchen area. You're biggest problem will be the unannounced room inspection or health and welfare inspection. You might be better off storing your clothes in your vehicle. Rarely will there be a vehicle inspection - something really bad has to happen like a lost sensitive item (think rifle, night vision device) or someone has a gun or drugs in their room. I never had a vehicle search when I was enlisted and had 2 as an officer. When you go through the gate, they generally don't open bags - never have had them ask to see inside one of mine. As far as the computer network, most of what people have posted is wrong. CID doesn't monitor any network. The Army is behind a firewall and web filters. If you try to go to a site it doesn't like while at work, it won't let you. Sometimes they haven't found all the sites; took them 3 months to lock out BME. Your best bet is to keep it professional at work. Your barracks internet is paid for by you through a commercial provider. There are no filters and no one is sniffing it, other than maybe the ISP. You can do anything that is legal on that network. The same basic rules apply while deployed. The work network is more heavily filtered, depending on who runs it, but this is mostly for bandwidth reasons. I know of a guy who was googling all sorts of porn sites - he had an open line, which should tell you how high up he was. When found out, all that happened to him was getting fired and sent to a new job. Not the greatest thing for a career - officers getting fired generally means that your not getting promoted anytime soon. The commercial network that you pay for is yours to do with what you will, subject to the rules of the ISP and General Order 1A, which prohibits porn anyway. I have been involved in investigations of soldiers for extremist activity and child porn on their personal laptops. No one has ever come to me and asked me to look for evidence of crossdressing, or anything else because there's nothing they can do about it. Trust me, the 1SG is really who you want to be most concerned about, and they generally have more than enough to keep them busy with real problem soldiers. That said, don't give them a reason to examine you from a bad perspective - good advice for CDers and everyone else. As long as you have thick skin, you'll be fine.

As far as a security clearance, I have a Top Secret/Secure Compartmentalized Information (TS/SCI). The only questions the investigator asks are very general - have you any knowledge of dishonest acts - theft, etc; do you know of any reason why this person shouldn't have a clearance; does this person drink a lot? They are looking for issues that would cause concern for your level of responsibility. Being enlisted, your chances of requiring a TS/SCI are low unless you go into intelligence. Later, if you go into special forces, civil affairs, or psychological operations, then you'll need one. To get a Secret clearance, they simply do a records check. If you haven't been arrested and don't have a lot of speeding tickets, you'll have no issues.

The Army can be a great life. It's what you make of it. Do your job to the best of your ability, don't create headaches for your superiors, know your place (very important), and finally, don't act high and mighty because of a college degree. Very few people will be impressed - remember, 2LTs have them as well. I walked into my company as a SPC and was chipping tile from under the urinal on my second day. Seize the opportunities that get presented. Once I finish vet school, my plan is to go back in. One day you may walk into a clinic and meet a veterinarian who has pierced ears, likes to wear skirts and Mary Janes, and has a Y chromosome.

ak88gurl

12-26-2011, 02:00 PM

Thanks Angie. Really informative response there. I'm still pretty much decided for the moment that I won't even have clothing on base, the internet monitoring was what I was most concerned about. I have to go in active at needs of the army, so the way things are right now, even with the very high ASVAB scores I have, I might not get the greatest MOS, but I have been interested actually in special operations having known a few people in SF, CA, and Psyop. What I really want more than anything is to get into SIGINT (either be a 35N or 35P) and try and eventually get assigned to a SOT-A. Before that I was seriously considering 18X, but as someone with a very analytical mindset I feel I would be really good at something like SIGINT.

Short of those, it all depends what's available, but even with the limits to choices that I'll have the way things are I'm confident I'll find something that works alright by me. I'm not going to go in thinking I'm anything special cause of the bachelors degree either.

Diane Elizabeth

12-26-2011, 02:36 PM

Be aware of the times you are dressed in the privacy of your own room (BOQ) Bachelor Officer Quarters, and someone calls you with an emergency in your unit that you need to take care of immediately. Running out the door with make up on. try explaining. As it has been stated the military owns you 24/7. Exception is when on leave (subject to military needs). Becareful. Good Luck.

lavistaa62

12-26-2011, 02:41 PM

I think you'll find plenty of kindred souls in intel- just be sure it's they would are the first to reveal and you know them and their associates very, very, very well. Don't dress anywhere near post and never, ever even consider it when you are deployed. Stateside it's not a big deal so long as you aren't are on post/base and don't get stopped, etc. On the other hand, this will be one of those things that you are stressed over. I'm guessing you're also somewhat open minded in your other attitudes and pursuits- be prepared for a shock... I was both enlisted and commissioned and astounded how attitudes of bigotry, prejudice and intolerance have crept back into the military since 9/11. It's not the same was it was and not in a good way so please, don't do anything with CD until you are through secondary training and at your first assignment and never when deployed. Other than that- the military is a great career so long as you understand the system enjoy it. Do try to get your masters, etc while in. Even though it's difficult with the time and other constraints, being ready for transition out is important at all times especially during reductions and if you CD.

AngieCD

12-26-2011, 03:06 PM

High ASVAB, bachelors degree and the recruiter is telling you needs of the Army - might want to see if you can find another recruiter. Actually, when you get to MEPS, talk to the career counselor. Before deciding on a job other than 11B, 19K, 19D, or 13B - i.e. a combat arms position, make sure you talk to someone in that position who has no vested interest in getting you into the Army. We had a really smart guy who would have made a great 13F - forward observer for artillery, but the recruiter described the 13D job in such a way that it sounded the same. In reality, the 13D sits behind a computer or plays with maps. If you have any questions, I have intimate knowledge of the following MOSs in a line unit: 11B, 11C, 92Y, 92G, 13B, 13D, 13F, 13S, 13R, 13W, 25B, 25C, 25S, 25Q, 25L, 25N, 25U, 91W, and 91T. I can tell you the good and bad of both. If I had to choose an enlisted job, it would be 11B or one of the 25 series (Signal). If you like animals and being Hooah isn't for you, the 91T is a great choice.

Also, as far as having to run out the door to respond to something - it doesn't happen unless you are deployed. I agree that I probably wouldn't dress around any installation. I don't even wear earrings within a few miles of the base, nor in areas of heavy military people.

Stephenie S

12-26-2011, 03:25 PM

Dear ak88,

I did serve many years ago.

I did NOT call you insane. I said that what you are planning BORDERS on the insane. You are planning to keep your crossdressing a secret from the military. Good luck with that.

I stand by what I said. If you CANNOT put your crossdressing on hold, stay out of the military.

That's a really simple straightforward bit of advice. Heed it or not. It's up to you. I assumed that you were asking for other people's opinions when you brought your question here. I gave you mine.

S

Pythos

12-26-2011, 03:58 PM

Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that a force that "fights for freedom" actually asks applicants if they cross dress. What the hell is that all about?

DADT repeal should also cover CDs. Why you ask? Because much of the bigotry and hatred we face IS based on homophobia. It is usually a homophobic reaction that people get when they encounter those of our ilk. What is my mom's thought when she sees my heels after snooping through my closet without my knowledge? "Why are you dressing like a woman? Are you trying to attract men?"

It is something that stems from the hatred of Gays. I find it very very ironic how the United States Military forces excercise those behaviors that they supposedly fighting against in other people's countries.

Kathy Smith

12-26-2011, 05:03 PM

Sorry Alexis, I have to agree with Stephanie S. I've never had anything to do with the military, I don't even live in the same country as you, but even I can see that making a legal declaration that you don't CD, when you have been doing so for some time (and have every intention of continuing to do so), is a potential recipe for disaster. If your military are anything like ours then you could very quickly find out just how unforgiving they can be about blatant lies like that.

Have a good think about it. Make your mind up.
Then think about it some more, including the bad bits (that you don't want to think about / don't believe can happen) this time.
Then make your choice: Crossdressing OR enlisting.

Misti

12-26-2011, 06:08 PM

So what if I go use the internet on my laptop somewhere off base? Are they still going to have a way of finding all the sites I went to?
To Whom It May Concern (Some very caring personal advice: Please feel you make take it, or leave it?)

I feel obligated to a "sister" to give you fair warning, AK88: "You have been advised, very, very wisely by everyone here, so far, but have seen fit to 'do it your way regardless of the potentially 'dire' future consequences starring you in the face for your DLO (military talk for Desired Learning Outcome)?' “ For that I wish you all the luck in the world, because you are certainly going to need it, young lady, if you persist in this wish to CD while on active duty in the service of your country (BTW I salute you :thumbsup: and applaud that very action enthusiastically, as I have done exactly the same as a combat pilot in Viet Nam, having served honorably and with distinction). My qualification here? My own rule was: “Never do anything ‘irresponsibly that can result in dire consequences to one’s well-being’; and that means, doing “IT” within one (1) hour of your home base.” For me that meant 500 miles (@500 MPH, you see? And, I am still batting 1.000 to this day. Hoorah!). :devil:

FYI I have one more qualifying credential to present to you in order to make my point to you "Perfectly Clear!” :straightface: I also have an extensive background in security, “privacy,” and all related matters thereto. and you are totally "naive" in such matters, so beware lest the snake bite? For starters, I would advise you to simply start with a Google Search: "NSA Whistleblowers Fort Gordon, GA". Afterwards, then proceed with extreme caution as you are about to embark on what I personally feel is a suicidal mission, dear one, as you will be judged with "Extreme Prejudice Once in the Breach!" Just remember, "You cannot do an ALT|CTRL|DEL, (computereze: three-finger salute) simply to re-start the game anew where you are about to go? Your very future depends purely on your choices here and now. So act accordingly. Period.

There are tons more, of course, but here's just a "couple of responses off the top" (13,700 Results in 0.21 seconds) you'll get from that Google search, et al.:

In an ABC News broadcast (09/09/09), NSA's Ears Wide Open Brian Ross reveals what the government heard on wiretaps. (http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6000186)

New NSA Whistleblowers Say NSA Spied on US Service Members and Aid Workers by Hugh D'Andrade, October 10, 2008 Electronic Frontier Foundation (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/10/new-nsa-whistleblowers)

Finally, Whistleblowers Report from the Inside on the NSA Program by Shayana Kadidal, Senior managing attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, October 9, 2008 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/finally-whistleblowers-re_b_133457.html)

Including, and, as mentioned earlier, Bradley Manning had and his alter-ego 'Breanna': Investigators reveal strange mind of soldier behind Wikileaks scandal. Read more: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075638/Bradley-Manning-trial-Investigators-reveal-strange-mind-soldier-Wikileaks-scandal.html#ixzz1hfzevFM3)

And, regardless of how (any)one feels about "Privacy, etc.", "The Beat Goes On, and On, and On, and..." :Angry3: Always remember this: “Big Brother is indeed watching… You, and You, and You, and…” Best of Luck, always,

L&R
M.

AngieCD

12-26-2011, 06:22 PM

Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that a force that "fights for freedom" actually asks applicants if they cross dress. What the hell is that all about?

I find it disgusting that someone would spread lies. Never have I, nor any other soldier I know been asked about cross dressing at enlistment. I have a 50-something page application for the Army Medical Department and there is no mention of cross dressing. They want to know if you have loyalties outside of the US, have even been arrested, or have ever plotted to over throw the US government by violent means. Perhaps you are projecting your issues with your mother upon the US Army. If you would read my rather lengthy post above, you will find that I had several items that one wouldn't expect to find in the closet of an Infantryman, and definitely some pictures that might cause the uninformed to think I was gay on my computer, but nothing was illegal. The old phrase was "Statement, act, or marriage" as far as determining homosexuality. You could be as gay as you wanted to be, but you could not tell anyone, have homosexual intercourse, or marry or attempt to marry someone of the same sex. If none of those conditions were met, no one could touch you, we didn't care. Obviously, you've been listening to too much anti-military propaganda, rather than talking to the actual people who live it daily. You're stuck in 1999.

SandraAbsent

12-26-2011, 06:56 PM

Ok, am I the only one that can ask the obvious before this kid puts her/him self in potential harms way? Alexis, what does your Gender Therapist say about you pursuing active duty? Reading your posts here, you seem to have already made up your mind that you are going to do this while you are going to pursue crossdressing in your spare time at home, and when and where you can you will use the internet to check in on TG websites to keep up on the community and your friends. You also seem to have all the answers for yourself, as you have posted a comeback to every single person here that has posted anything that advises you against this. So here...I will refer back to my previous question, and ad to it ARE YOU INSANE?????

You really need to seek a professional 3rd party. It's clear to me here, just through reading your posts, that your ability to keep this a secret will not be very well put. Let me fill you in on something here. I live full time, and every day I come across someone I know out of the corner of my eye. In the back of my head every where I go is, when will someone decide to take there bad day out on me? Here is another reality. Although a majority of military members are good loving people that are just trying to do there duty, there is a faction represented by the same percentage as civilian population that are not. I think we could all agree there is a "type" that is drawn to military or law enforcement that are inclined to not be very trans friendly. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the TDOR list from last year. When people are outed, people die. Some people are outed despite taking extreme measures not to be.

Your a kid...put your real thinking cap on here. Get a third party therapist involved, and really do a thorough self evaluation before you make a commitment that could end up damaging you for life.

SandraAbsent

12-26-2011, 06:57 PM

Ok, am I the only one that can ask the obvious before this kid puts her/him self in potential harms way? Alexis, what does your Gender Therapist say about you pursuing active duty? Reading your posts here, you seem to have already made up your mind that you are going to do this while you are going to pursue crossdressing in your spare time at home, and when and where you can you will use the internet to check in on TG websites to keep up on the community and your friends. You also seem to have all the answers for yourself, as you have posted a comeback to every single person here that has posted anything that advises you against this. So here...I will refer back to my previous question, and ad to it ARE YOU INSANE?????

You really need to seek a professional 3rd party. It's clear to me here, just through reading your posts, that your ability to keep this a secret will not be very well put. Let me fill you in on something here. I live full time, and every day I come across someone I know out of the corner of my eye. In the back of my head every where I go is, when will someone decide to take their bad day out on me? Here is another reality. Although a majority of military members are good loving people that are just trying to do there duty, there is a faction represented by the same percentage as civilian population that are not. In the military these types of people have a on documented license to act out their bigotries. I think we could all agree there is a "type" that is drawn to military or law enforcement that are inclined to not be very trans friendly. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the TDOR list from last year. When people are outed, people die. Some people are outed despite taking extreme measures not to be.

Your a kid...put your real thinking cap on here. Get a third party therapist involved, and really do a thorough self evaluation before you make a commitment that could end up damaging you for life.

TxKimberly

12-26-2011, 08:13 PM

OK, so let's just take a chill pill and think on it for a second.
I am astounded by some of the awesome advice and information that was offered.

TG's are NOT covered under the new change in regs regarding homosexuals being allowed to serve now. I doubt that your average soldier realizes that though. The vast majority of people lump us all together LGBT, and right or wrong, most who might stumble on to you are going to think "Oh he's gay and that's allowed now."
Security clearance - that does have the potential to be a significant problem for you. When I was in the Army and worked on a nuclear missile with a top secret clearance, it was before the internet became a household thing. I have NO idea what they might be able to discover about you through the internet. For example, I have no idea if they have some way to find your account here if you dont volunteer the information to them. Honestly I doubt very much that they can, at least not without a great deal of effort that I find it hard to imagine them going through without a compelling reason to do so. I also have the worry in the back of my head as to what some of your former ROTC peers might say if and when they are interviewed as part of a security clearance background investigation. Are they going to feel obligated to share that information with the investigator? Are some of them active duty now, and might they not feel compelled by their own ethics and oath to tell this to an investigator?
A couple of people have told you to only share this with your most trusted friends and I'd like to respectfully disagree with that advice. Tell freaking NO ONE, not under any circumstances, and not for any freaking reason. TELL NO ONE who is in any way, shape, or form associated with your career in the Army about this. EVER.
Would they actually prosecute you if they caught you later? I doubt it, because they really don't like that kind of publicity. To the best of my knowledge, they have never prosecuted anyone for this, though I'd bet quite a few have been quietly separated from the service for it. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those that were separated were threatened with legal action if they tried to fight the separation, but I can't recall ever hearing of anyone that was actually prosecuted for being gay or TG. So - thrown out of the Army - entirely possible. Sent to prison - highly unlikely.
Can you get away with going out to "friendly" clubs while on active duty - you betcha. I have shaken the hand of quite a few that came down to Austin from Ft Hood on weekends.
Internet usage and privacy - I should imagine that anyone using the internet these days knows that any company (this of course includes the US Military) can monitor your internet usage while using either their computers or their network. What you do from your own PC at home should be reasonably private though. Of course no one is safe if Uncle Sam has a really good reason to start looking in to your activities, but your average soldier does not really need to worry about Uncle Sam monitoring their internet activities while on their personal PC and using their own service provider.

Can you get away with it? Probably, IF you keep your mouth shut and dont tell anyone and IF your old ROTC peers don't volunteer the info should they be interviewed as part of a background investigation for a clearance.
Can you get caught? Sure! If your dumb enough to use their PC's and networks to visit sites like this, or to send and receive emails, or if you're stupid enough to let someone know about this or catch you cross dressing. I'd still think that the worst case scenario would just have you separated from the service and right back to where you are now, so what is the real risk?

I know it's all kind of a mixed message, so where does this leave you? Damned if I know! As far as I can tell it is now up to you to decide if you want a career, or at least a term in the military bad enough to risk it. Personally I've never been prouder of anything that I have done in my life than of my Army service.

Pythos

12-26-2011, 08:15 PM

Angie CD, i was able to find the post. yes I misread. It is IF they ask you that question. I still find it odd that you cannot excersise an activity that for all intents and purposes harms no one in a force that protects us from other forces that would kill people like us.

I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.

Michelle.M

12-26-2011, 08:49 PM

DADT repeal should also cover CDs.

Maybe it should, but unfortunately it does not. That TG discrimination is based in homophobia may be debatable (not by me, I think you have a point) is irrelevant at this time. The US military simply has not progressed that far. And as some of the other posts in the thread have stated, those countries wherein there is supposedly TS tolerance in the military still have a long way to go as well.

AngieCD

12-26-2011, 09:19 PM

Jeninus

12-26-2011, 10:00 PM

I was in the Military Intelligence in the Army. One of MI's major responsibilities was conducting background investigations with respect to requests for security clearances and periodic re-investigations of those with security clearances. Almost every sensitive job in the military requires security clearances. Whether you think they are necessary or not -- the military certainly does. And if you try to avoid a position that requires a security clearance you will only shine a spotlight on yourself and trigger a background investigation.

You mention that your family and fraternity brothers are aware of your CD past. You can rest assured, that at some point in your military career one or more of them will be interviewed under oath. The chance that you will be able to close out your career in the military successfully - even should you 100% repress it during your time (and you have indicated that that is not your plan) - is slim to none. When it comes out, as it undoubtedly will, you will end up being dishonorably discharged and find your life in ruins. You, my friend, are playing with a form of fire you can't even begin to understand. Just don't do it The intelligence services are far more capable than you may think.

When I went into the military I also 100% repressed it, but unlike you, no one in the world knew about it before I went in. I had to go in because it was the era when everyone served after their 2-S deferment ran out who didn't either dodge the draft, get married or became a teacher (all forms of dodging, in my opinion). Listen to and heed the advice of your sisters in spirit here who have been through that mill.

pennylee

12-26-2011, 10:12 PM

half the crew on both ships I was on( Vietnam) had panties in their locker, we were saving souvineers and wore them back to the ship!!!

Jason+

12-26-2011, 10:25 PM

I'll concede that it is in the regulation. That said, I have never heard of it being asked. The same paragraph also mentions exhibitionism and voyeurism, which could cover girls who flash their breasts at a concert or during Mardi Gras and people who look at porn. The other key is that in the military, you are not allowed to self diagnose. Unless a doctor declares you to have the condition, you don't have it and thus don't have to disclose it. This is why I don't have hay fever, but am very allergic to grass, pollen, etc. Note also that they never ask if a candidate has performed or received oral sex, or participated in any position other than the missionary position, all of which are illegal under the UCMJ. Like Article 134, these things exist as avenues for the easy removal of problem people.

http://www.okdiversity.com/genderbenders/cia.html (A little dated but still relevant to the issue of security clearances.)

Transvestism is similar to homosexuality in that it is not illegal, and there is no empirical evidence that transvestites are, by nature, less trustworthy or loyal than other persons. Cross-dressing, by itself and in all circumstances, does not necessarily indicate poor judgment, unreliability, irresponsibility or emotional instability, although these disqualifying characteristics will he present in some cases. There is strong evidence that many cross-dressers lead successful lives with a high degree of personal and professional achievement. Each individual should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Appropriate medical authorities should determine whether there are other associated emotional problems or evidence of a progression toward other sexual disorders such as fetishism or transsexualism.

The DCID 1/14 criteria that may apply to some cases of transvestism are the public nature of the behavior and susceptibility to blackmail or coercion. Going out in public dressed as a woman may indicate lack of discretion and would be an aggravating circumstance that may justify disqualification. Concealment of current cross-dressing behavior may indicate susceptibility to pressure. Admission of cross-dressing during a security interview may eliminate some of this susceptibility but is discouraged by the sanctions associated with current personnel security policies.

With all of that said or at least quoted, I served 20 years Navy the last 10 of which most people knew or at the least had an idea. Other than buried in the medical regulations which were an eye opener to read today I didn't know there was a direct prohibition against being a transvestite. I also know there isn't a regulation that says you can express yourself how you see fit. That leaves it up to a command to interpret what the regulation really says you can and can't do and whether or not they should enforce what they understand the rule to be.

The act itself doesn't have to be wrong, it just has to catch the attention of someone with the clout to push the issue. Article 134 the general article works as well as the rubber stamp "conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline." I can't say for sure if I was just lucky enough not to cross the wrong person or just not a squeaky enough wheel otherwise.

lingerieLiz

12-27-2011, 12:47 AM

ak88gurl, I don't get it. Why ask, if you don't take the advice. The agony of worrying about getting caught will take the joy of serving away. Yes there are CDs in the military. I can assure you that being busted out for a less than desirable discharge is not something you want to experience. I've seen people before that were determined that they could do it anyway. I've seen the prices they paid.

It is obvious to me that you have no concept of what the NSA can correlate and identify. Secondly, what if you do get an assignment that requires a security clearance. When the FBI shows up at your fraternity and asks questions they don't tell anyone why.

You say you won't dress if need be, it doesn't matter. The military not only cares about now. They care about the past and the future.

Dana7

12-27-2011, 02:16 AM

Beyond the ramifications of being caught by your Army peers and superiors, there are additional things to think about. If you are stationed anywhere close to areas where there are concentrations of muslims or islamic peoples, you need to keep in mind that in their culture and religion, CDing is an offense punishable by imprisonment or even death. They are very strict when it comes to issues like that. So even if you were to go away from your duty post location, you may not be safe when dressed in many areas of the world, particularly the Middle East.

One other thing, if you think you can keep a stash hidden anywhere on a military installation, forget it. They will find it. Don't even think about it.

ak88gurl

12-27-2011, 04:03 AM

Ok, I'm getting a lot of good advice here and am really getting something out of this. Having said that, I am trying to be respectful of people, but STRONGLY feel that crossdressers who are currently or have recently served have the most authority on this subject. I think that's understandable, and some of the stuff on here at times has felt both condescending to me and at the same time contradicting of what those currently in have had to say. Anyway, I feel I'm getting a great deal of good information here, but for those of you inclined to question my intelligence and sanity in bold print, I have actually been thinking this through thoroughly, and if you're going to respond to me this way without any experience with the modern military, then I am somewhat inclined to be a bit more dismissive.

I'm starting to possibly reconsider MOS rather than go for a TS clearance because of what a few on the thread and in PMs to me have said. I already have had a security clearance for a couple years because of ROTC and retain it going in. I'm a disenrolled cadet btw, so besides a very big and genuine desire to serve being a part of who I am as a person, I AM going to be going in because I am already obligated. It's not worth trying to dissuade me to enlist, also having gone through some military training already with ROTC (albeit nothing quite as intensive as once I'm actually in) and as someone with friends in all branches of service, quite a few in SOF actually, I do actually have some idea what I'm getting into, I am not stupid, and I am not insane, and if you're reading my posts you'll see I am not contemplating any CDing on base much less in a Muslim country (again, burqas aren't my style anyway....)

Security clearance - that does have the potential to be a significant problem for you. When I was in the Army and worked on a nuclear missile with a top secret clearance, it was before the internet became a household thing. I have NO idea what they might be able to discover about you through the internet. For example, I have no idea if they have some way to find your account here if you dont volunteer the information to them. Honestly I doubt very much that they can, at least not without a great deal of effort that I find it hard to imagine them going through without a compelling reason to do so. I also have the worry in the back of my head as to what some of your former ROTC peers might say if and when they are interviewed as part of a security clearance background investigation. Are they going to feel obligated to share that information with the investigator? Are some of them active duty now, and might they not feel compelled by their own ethics and oath to tell this to an investigator?

I might avoid going for a TS clearance, but I'm not worried about ROTC peers or any peers giving up information. Not all of my close friends know, in fact most don't, but most of my fraternity brothers know because their attitudes really are very chill with this type of thing. Only told three people from ROTC, all three of them frat brothers (and amongst my closest brothers). I think one of them, who's now an infantry LT in Afghanistan, had the coolest reaction of anyone I've ever told about it, saying, "I watch kids cartoons, play with action figures, and have crossdressed no less than 5 times. I'm no one to cast judgement on you, and besides, Eddie Izzard is my favorite comedian." He did go onto say, "I say this because I love you as my brother and care about your safety, don't ever get outted to anyone in the Army," and that's advice I have always had the intention of taking. But pretty much everyone in my frat including the other two guys from ROTC now in the Army had similar attitudes, and I can't imagine them volunteering this information about me to anyone. Still, since it does sound like they go awfully deep for the TS security clearances and I have profiles on this forum for Alexis and a private one on Facebook, I think it would be pretty hard for them to trace anything over to that stuff, but I'm seriously considering different MOS's from the ones I wanted that would require TS clearances.

SandraAbsent

12-27-2011, 11:02 AM

Anyway, I feel I'm getting a great deal of good information here, but for those of you inclined to question my intelligence and sanity in bold print, I have actually been thinking this through thoroughly, and if you're going to respond to me this way without any experience with the modern military, then I am somewhat inclined to be a bit more dismissive.

I simply wanted to emphasize my point. Lack of experience in the modern military has nothing to do with lack of knowledge on the matter, nor does it have anything to do with of experience in modern transgender issues which is something I feel you are not even remotely taking into consideration. Queer, crossdresser, transsexual or whatever, there are real issues and implications out there that I don't think you have even given consideration that could seriously harm you physically, emotionally, and/or mentally. It matters not what your background is, your rank, how you got there, and what your clearance is. Every single one of your posts has been regarding one question. How do I manage being a crossdresser while serving my active duty. More importantly the theme seems to be how do I get away with it? Don't agree with me? Read through your own posts. This simple answer is you don't. The long answer is that you do if you always want the fear of being discovered. The consequences of which will lead to at best dishonorable discharge and at worst death. Still don't believe me on the death thing? Read the TDOR lists, and just a reminder that on TDOR we only put an emphasis on those killed for falling under the transgender umbrella this does not include the 1000s that are beaten and injured every year. You rely on never outing yourself, your friends never outing you, your family never outing you, and the digital trail you leave behind you never outing you. If you are prepared to completely abandon this aspect of your life for the next several years, maybe you will be safe. If you are not prepared to completely abandon it, be prepared for the fact that there may be consequences. Maybe I used bold letters, because I just don't see you thinking this way.

I was not challenging your intelligence, nor your sanity. I was challenging you to think about more deeply the dangers your actions past, present, and future may present for you in the environment you are putting yourself in. I was challenging you to change your attitude to one that is a little less concerned about your military service to one that is a little more protective of your own personal safety. I understand you completely when you say that you feel compelled to serve your country and respect you immensely for that. I would never even consider trying to convince otherwise. I beg you to consider that while you are in the military you are going to have to be more careful about this issue than anything else you may have to deal with. Whatever you do Please Please don't be carefree. It may have worked for you in college and in your frat, but once you leave that world things become different in a hurry.

Helen Grandeis

12-27-2011, 11:40 AM

I echo the advice. Tell no one! Never use DOD computers for CD related browsing / posting. Keep your stuff off base and don't show or tell anyone. Conduct unbecoming is still a real offense. Although people may now be openly gay and serve, they still must present in the conventional manner in all public places. The military owns you 24-7. The rules of evidence are not the same for non-judicial punishment. Thank-you for your service.
---
Helen
USNR-Retired.

Pythos

12-27-2011, 12:51 PM

Can anyone answer the question...why is Cding prohibited by our military? I feel this may be the basis of much of the crap I have to deal with in Aviation considering that many of those in that are are EX military.

I really want to know why CDing is so frowned upon in the manner it is?

IT SHOULD NOT BE IN the regulations any more than the sexual position you desire, or the type of sex you have!!! Or what make car you prefer? What brand coffee you desire. What the hell? This sort of thing is what should be sent to whistle blower groups like the infamous Wiki-leaks. These regulations seem to have within them clear violations of the constitution of the very country the members over which they rule, serve, sometimes with their lives. Not only that, but this could also be the reason such things like Trans Phobia, as well as Homophobia, and many other forms of Bigotry still exist in our society, seeing how many people serve in the military at least once in their lives.

It sounds like just like the FAA there are some rules and regulations that have not caught up with the times. (ex: "Do not taxi faster than a man can walk." This is NEVER done, and can easily be observed at any airport, but there is a reg that says every single pilot out there is in violation of said reg.)

Maybe if this crap were exposed, there would be a rucus, and then those regs would evaporate like the pieces of filth they are.

ak88gurl

12-27-2011, 12:54 PM

lol, okay.... Sandra, go back to your first post to me on this thread, and just tell me again that you didn't challenge my sanity. You directly questioned my sanity in BIG BOLD LETTERS....

I didn't grow up in a military family but still with friends in all branches of the service and have actually gotten some taste of how the military works through almost 3 years with ROTC and going through some training with that. I'm going to have to agree with posts from previous people like McKailah and AngieCD that basically those with experience with the modern military are most of all the people who should be telling me how it works, because frankly while I don't have the experience they have in the military (which is why I'm looking for their opinions), it is painfully obvious to me on here sometimes when someone doesn't know much about the modern military. I appreciate your concern, but not your input for lack of ability to contribute to this. The clearance, for example, is one of the concerns, and if you don't think it does then you're not even paying much attention to what we're talking about.

There's a lot of well-founded concern on here, but frankly I am only listening at this point to advice from those who have served, and have gotten good advice which I am actually putting to use such as that echoed just now my Helen. I'm also greatly appreciative not only to a few on here who have posted, but a few who have been serving for a long time and are still doing so who chose to private message me.

ak88gurl

12-27-2011, 01:08 PM

IT SHOULD NOT BE IN the regulations any more than the sexual position you desire, or the type of sex you have!!!

It's funny you should mention that, because as I think somebody else pointed out, the UCMJ also specifically prohibits oral sex and sex in anything but the missionary position. Some things in there are comical and.... pretty much dismissed. Crossdressing, isn't so much, but I've talked to enough CDs currently in who have actually been seen or outed and are still serving, to know that sometimes the people in charge really don't care if you don't bother them with it. Don't take me saying that as me saying that it can't be very dangerous and thus something I'm going to be careful not to get caught with, but yeah.

The reason it's frowned on is people just don't have exposure to it I think frankly. Gays have movies, sitcoms, etc. CDs have Eddie Izzard, who is definitely one of my heroes and I think has actually moved the ball forward quite a bit for people like us. If I weren't going in the military, or maybe someday after I'm out of the military, it's possible I would get involved in some kind of activism with this.

SandraAbsent

12-27-2011, 03:29 PM

Lol and still you don't get it, your worries are about the wrong things! Best of luck to you :)

MissMarcie

12-27-2011, 04:05 PM

Stephenie S

12-27-2011, 05:00 PM

I feel like a broken record here. Does that date me?

Don't think for a minute that your activities will not come out. And the consequences of that information coming out range from nothing to your own death.

If you can''t put your crossdressing activities on hold for the time of your enlistment then don't enlist. Simple. Clear. To the point.

Or do so and take responsibility for your actions. You have explained several times in great detail just how you plan to keep your hobby under wraps. Others have advised you several times also in great detail how this is unlikely to occur.

I told you I thought your were dreaming. Dream on dear. Why did you ever ask for advice you have no intention of heeding.

S

Pythos

12-27-2011, 05:00 PM

It used to be their rules as well as societies that blacks sit in the back of the bus, and drink from seperate fountains. Just because they have such rules does not make it that one cannot question. Your stance is a bright example of why such stupid rules THAT WE SUPPORT WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, are perpetuated.

Michelle.M

12-27-2011, 06:21 PM

. . . as I think somebody else pointed out, the UCMJ also specifically prohibits oral sex and sex in anything but the missionary position.

Um, that's not quite true. Yes, the UCMJ (Article 125) prohibits sodomy (I'd say that includes oral sex) but there's nothing anywhere about what sex positions are permitted. That part has urban legend written all over it.

The UCMJ was passed by Congress on 5 May 1950, signed into law by President Harry S. Truman, and became effective on 31 May 1951. At that time things like oral sex between consenting heterosexual adults was a big taboo and not discussed (although certainly practiced). The sodomy prohibition was included to address sexual assaults that may or may not also include intercourse. Thus, if a sexual assault was committed a servicemember would not be able to avoid prosecution if he had "only" forced the victim to give him oral sex. it is only in this context that I have seen sodomy prosecuted in my decades-long military career.

http://www.ucmj.us/

The reason it's frowned on is people just don't have exposure to it I think frankly.

I wish it were that simple. Even among civilian mental health professionals it's a rather recent notion that cross dressing is nothing more than just another valid form of expression and altogether harmless. When it comes to that sort of thing the military is behind the times and will eventually catch up, but for now it's still listed as a psychiatric paraphilia. That's why it's currently prohibited.

Your stance is a bright example of why such stupid rules THAT WE SUPPORT WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, are perpetuated.

Your passion for this issue is commendable, but it makes me wonder if you're so passionate that you'd consider joining the military and challenging this issue head-on from within with your own blood, sweat and tears? Your opinion will sound much more credible when you're willing to stand beside those in the trenches instead of calling the plays from the sidelines.

Jamie2

12-27-2011, 07:16 PM

I feel that I must comment here,,
When I was in the service, It was not discussed by/or/ with ANYONE!!!!
I cant tell you of the times I was approched at different airports arround the world
by other people,(you give hints allways), to "go somewhere private". Now mind you this was in UNIFORM, (me).
I recognized 1 guy as I had seen him doing inspections on other posts, So I was forewarned.
You will have NO LIFE that is not monitered By UNCLE SAM, YOU ARE HIS 24/7 365
NEVER forget that!!!

Crysten

12-27-2011, 09:31 PM

Want a really good pointer? Prove to everyone that matters that you are an exceptional soldier
... a soldier that knows his stuff, takes care of business, and is an assett to the army. That way if anything does come up youll have all the right people in your corner. Remember, with very few exceptions you can pretty much get a waiver for anything ... And i dressed continuously my entire 20+ year career ...

Pythos

12-27-2011, 09:54 PM

Your passion for this issue is commendable, but it makes me wonder if you're so passionate that you'd consider joining the military and challenging this issue head-on from within with your own blood, sweat and tears? Your opinion will sound much more credible when you're willing to stand beside those in the trenches instead of calling the plays from the sidelines.

Well there are two things working against me. 1) age. I am just beyond the age to join. 2) I am an open cross dresser in most of my life. The exceptions being, my family, as well as aviation. Because of this I am not able to join the military, and as I said, would not want to due to how our fighting men and women are being treated currently.

That being said. This should NOT have to be "from within, with your own sweat and blood" It is a disgrace that such wanton bigotry is a part of our military. As was noted this was signed in the 50s. Well perhaps it should be gone over and have all such bigotry removed.

Want a really good pointer? Prove to everyone that matters that you are an exceptional soldier
... a soldier that knows his stuff, takes care of business, and is an assett to the army. That way if anything does come up youll have all the right people in your corner. Remember, with very few exceptions you can pretty much get a waiver for anything ... And i dressed continuously my entire 20+ year career ...

This quote I think hits the nail on the head.

foxyjj111

12-27-2011, 11:28 PM

ak88
I recently left the navy after only 2 terms (8 yrs). You have to understand that the demographics within the military, due impart to its size, are congruent to the rest of society. throughout my service i was just as open, to certain people, as i am now. I had several friends who knew all about my TG side and even went to bars, clubs, etc dressed in the same cities where i was assigned. I have even met other TGs who were curently serving and were planning to transition once leaving the military. As far as them watching over you, i wouldnt worry to the point of paranoia. I held a TS clearance and was trusted with extremely sensitive information, and used my laptop with the bases wifi all the time. they have far larger things to worry about then CD/TV...

You do need to be aware that there are those who will not agree with your lifestyle, but thats no different from civilian society. Personally i did feel slightly suffocated only in part because i want to eventually transition; knowing the military would be a difficult situation for such possibility i decided to leave...

ak88gurl

12-28-2011, 02:55 AM

That being said. This should NOT have to be "from within, with your own sweat and blood" It is a disgrace that such wanton bigotry is a part of our military. As was noted this was signed in the 50s. Well perhaps it should be gone over and have all such bigotry removed.

You want to see the bigotry removed? Someone does have to fight it from within at some point for the bigotry to ever be noticed unfortunately. This has always been the case. Blacks earned their permanent right just to join because of the valor of the 54th Massachussetts Infantry Regiment in the Civil War, and eventually segregation was ended after WWII because of the service records of the colored combat units such as the 361st Tank Battalion, the 99th Pursuit Squadron (Tuskegee Airmen), and the most decorated unit of the entire war, the 442nd Infantry which was composed of Japanese-Americans fighting for freedom even while their families were living in internment camps. Desegregation also first started as an experiment out of desperation during the Battle of the Bulge with blacks being put together with whites in a couple regiments, and people saw how soldiers would watch each others backs regardless of color. Some of us have heard the stories about gay soldiers whose units basically knew they were gay also. The bigotry isn't right but it's ended by people like Dan Choi and others within the military making people see how wrong the bigotry is. The country doesn't much care if they just see people they don't think will really serve honorably in numbers anyway complaining about it from outside the military. People like Diane Schroer should represent transgendered, not people like Bradley Manning. So that's my little rant about why this DOES actually have to be challenged by other people's own sweat and blood, because that's the way change in the military has ALWAYS come about.

Anyway, so I think I've made my point there, but also I'm not joining to prove anything but rather also because you and I don't have it that bad in this country all in consideration either. LGBT rights around the world are still fairly recent really, and we're not that far behind a lot of the other western countries and quite far ahead of most other countries around the world, and I still genuinely believe that we have a lot of other rights that make this a great country, sometimes taken for granted and indeed threatened by terrorists who, if we didn't collect intel on and go after, would be making more attacks on our soil.

AngieCD

12-28-2011, 08:10 AM

I can't believe you left out the 555th Parachute Infantry Regiment. That was a giant leap ahead!

ak88gurl

12-28-2011, 08:54 AM

I can't believe you left out the 555th Parachute Infantry Regiment. That was a giant leap ahead! Yeah, the "Triple Nickels" took the toughest training the Army had at that time to offer. I also didn't mention the Montford Point Marines or the distinguished service of the 92nd and 93rd Infantry Divisions in both world wars. Also, it was the 761st and not 361st Tank Btn (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wrote a good book about them). I could have included the Commanche and Navajo code-talkers also. For those that haven't realized yet I'm kind of a history buff.

Jessica Keys

12-28-2011, 09:46 AM

If you think you can keep seperate your CDing and making any kind of career in the Army...your nuts!

PretzelGirl

12-28-2011, 10:40 AM

Can anyone answer the question...why is Cding prohibited by our military?

A couple of thoughts that come to mind.

1. The military is always slower to adopt social changes. Look at DADT. There are many valid reasons for this, but the bottom line is that it will probably always be that way.

2. The DSM still has Crossdressing as a disorder. Although we know it wouldn't impact our ability to defend our country, disorders are something the military just automatically uses to exclude.

3. The military is still a macho organization. Changes that go against that will no doubt be slower. Maybe this ties back to #1.

Alexis - The best of luck to you. I did 20 years with a TS clearance before I started dressing so I can't tell you a lot. I didn't know any Crossdressers or any along the transgendered path, so it is hard to contribute there. I will say that anything that is on base is subject to federal inspection. I have seen full car inspections when the threat was high. I even remember one in the sixties when I was a kid because the bank on base was robbed. Unless things have changed, you sure don't have any privacy when living in barracks either, although that varies based on the service and the current local command. So keep gathering information and be careful. But this isn't Big Brother. They don't figure out your computer when you get a security clearance and track all of your activity no matter where you connect although I wouldn't push it on-base. They don't put a tail on you for your whole term of service. When you apply for a clearance, they investigate you and file a report and that is it unless someone files a security threat report to raise a flag. Be smart but you don't have to be paranoid.

Cindi Johnson

12-28-2011, 10:43 AM

Due to the draft and war in Viet Nam, I enlisted in the Air Force in 1971. Four years is a long time. Believe me, you cannot keep a secret in the military if it involves physical objects, like clothing. Your barracks and your room are searched in detail, without notice. Once my stash was discovered during an inspection. Luckily the officer chose not to make a big deal out of it, although it was clear the secret was out. Also luckily, I got discharged just a few months later.

At one small radar base I was assigned to, a tech sargent committed suicide. Afterward the word spread about the female clothing and makeup and such which was found in his house. I'd guess transgenderism played a part in the tragedy.

My suggestion? Think twice before you raise your right hand and take that oath.

ak88gurl

12-28-2011, 11:28 AM

If you think you can keep seperate your CDing and making any kind of career in the Army...your nuts!

Many, many people who I have already spoken to on here who managed to do it must be absolutely bats--t crazy then I guess....

Like Sue said, I'll "keep gathering information and be careful." Luckily the plans I've considered don't involve any clothing ever coming near base, and also I'm really still going to take things as I go. If I'm stationed in Korea, then I don't think there's any which way that I'll try and dress. If I'm stationed in Germany, where I actually speak the language btw and could blend in a bit more, if I can find someone off base to mail my stuff to then maybe I'll try to dress some there, but I'm going to take things as I go. I'm not desperate to dress, but taking measure of how I can safely do it first, I will do it when I can.

Also, incidentally, if I do get caught, I'm literally going to laugh it off as something done for fun or as a joke. Someone who crossdresses isn't necessarily a crossdresser. I got a buddy who's an infantry LT in the Army who has crossdressed a bunch of times for a laugh, has pictures up of it on his regular Facebook, he's not a crossdresser, and nobody really cares. Still, people could potentially find out more about it with me, but bottom line is I am going to be smart about it and really play it as I go. From talking to people on here and a few crossdressers in person who have served, I've gotten ideas on how I can probably do it safely like what I've shared here, but it depends on where my career with the Army takes me.

AngieCD

12-28-2011, 11:45 AM

I don't think you can compare the military of 40 years ago to today any more than you can compare society at large in the same manner. As I've said previously, commanders have pretty much seen it all. As long as it isn't illegal, we don't really care. I'm not going to bust a great soldier over some petty crap like having women's clothes. Think of it as a traffic stop. A cop isn't going to pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt on the interstate. Neither are they going to do the same for having a beer can in the bed of your pickup. But, if they pull you over for speeding, and then see the seat belt violation and the beer can, then they are going to start piling on the infractions. Good soldiers are hard to retain as it is. Why do you think that a female soldier who had a tattoo of two female symbols intertwined on her arm never had an issue? Everyone knew she was a lesbian and we knew who her girlfriend was - the battalion commander is the one who pointed that detail out - but no one cared because she did a good job. Is it equitable? No, but most things aren't applied equally anyway. Is it fair? You bet - she was a hard worker and dependable. She followed the rules and didn't flaunt it, so we didn't make the assumption based on the evidence, and all was well. The most invasive inspection you're going to get is a Health and Welfare check. These are targeted for certain items, and as such can't be used for fishing trips. As long as you don't have any military equipment you're not authorized, illegal or drugs not prescribed to you, too much alcohol, firearms, ammunition, etc, there's not too much to worry about. Remember, you have to establish a pattern of misconduct before anyone will actually do anything. A military job is about as secure as a union job, unless you commit a major violation, of which crossdressing is not. Also remember that the Army is big on uniformity. Flaunting your individuality may be admired in the civilian world, but it's frowned upon in the Army. Alexis is smart enough to know how to operate. My only real urging is to go to OCS, which will allow the avoidance of most of the concerns voiced here. It's no coincidence that I didn't get my ears pierced until I had gold bars on my shoulders.

TxKimberly

12-28-2011, 11:54 AM

ak88gurl

12-28-2011, 12:22 PM

I might go to OCS, but I really am inclined to wait at least a couple years. I am also still really interested in seeing what I could possibly do with SOF, more so than being an officer, and if I try and do that then I really will try and pretty well curtail any CDing activities for at least a good while. Unless I go SF though, if I stay in then I will probably go to OCS after a couple of years.

AngieCD

12-28-2011, 12:42 PM

If you decide to go to OCS later, make sure your graduation date is after the fourth anniversary of the day you report to basic training. We had a candidate who graduated on Thursday and his 4 year mark was the following Sunday. There's a difference in the money.

BillieJoEllen

12-29-2011, 01:32 PM

While stationed in Germany in 1971 (army) there was a CDer stationed not far from us. She even had an article about herself printed in the Stars and Stripes. I guess the point I'm trying to make is- nobody seemed to care. But then again I'm pretty certain that if the right brigade, battalion or company commander got wind of somebody CDing they would do something about it. So do be careful. A lot of people in command probably think that DADT probably pertains to the CDing community also. Once again don't take chances.

Crysten

12-29-2011, 03:21 PM

Well I'll tell you this. Due to clearance issues etc, and the DADT policy at the time, my CDing was an "open secret 800 pound gorilla" sort of situation. Due to the background check for my clearance, they discovered I was a CDer. Due to "the possibility of getting blackmailed" issue, they told everybody. So everyone knew....and no one could ask me about it, nor could I tell anyone about it. The only issues I had (go figure) were with the proverbial ultra-consereviative born-again religious nut commanders who would occasionally turn up. I got no respect, either professionally or personally, regardless of my actions. They were all convinced I was going to burn in hell for eternity for going against "gods law" or whatever. Lame, ain't it. After 20+ years I was glad to move on. And to be clear, not everyone was like that. Most folks either didn't care or were oblivious. Only a few commanding officers I worked for seemed to have an issue - these were the ones who spent 12 hours a day at work followed by 4 hours a day at church ... and 12 hours a day at church on the weekends. Some life, right.

Josie M

12-29-2011, 10:44 PM

Good information, and a good reference to work from

....and I think this issue will be the next article in my fledgling blog

thanks :)

I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.

ak88gurl

01-12-2012, 04:24 PM

If they can get away with THIS in the Army.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haHXgFU7qNI

....just saying....

Meg East

01-12-2012, 05:02 PM

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

True, if you use your own computer but are on their, base using their network, routers etc. then you are under their rules.

gretchen_love

01-13-2012, 02:19 AM

As a fairly new LT who is also a crossdresser, I just want to repeat some of the above mentioned advice. Be careful about your Cding, and be the best soldier you can be. I am a fire support officer in an armor company, and the stupid stuff soldiers do concern my commander and 1SG way much more that a bunch of women's clothes (not to demean our collective weakness lol). Just in the past 3 months we have had two cases of domestic violence, one demotion because a soldier was having inappropriate conversations with a 14 year old girl on facebook, and an "attempted suicide attempt" (aka the soldier didn't like being in the army and took just enough pills to look like suicide but not actually be close to dying). One of my soldiers had a video taken of him in full makeup, and admitting he likes sucking on women's toes. The CO, 1SG, my FSNCO, and myself all saw it, and ya know what? He still got a waiver for early promotion because he is a good soldier and is technically and tactically proficient. He and one other soldier (who took the video lol) got early promotions ahead of their peers. Did his little foray into CDing injure his career? As of right now, no. But who knows the future, maybe that video will come back to haunt him one day.

I guess the main point of my post is that if you keep your head down and do what your LT, PSG, 1SG, and CO ask you to do, you should be fine. And that is my advice to anyone putting on a uniform, CD or not. If you make their life easy, aka not get in trouble, they will leave you alone for the most part. And if you excel at your job, they will probably recognize your achievement.

The fact that you are asking these questions in advance and show that you have an analytical mindset shows me, at least, that you have the ability to far exceed your peers. Most other guys are wondering how much pu$$y they are gonna get on the weekend, not if their shoes are gonna match their bra and purse. Cding doesn't really even enter into how a soldier thinks about another soldier unless it is shoved in his/her face.

To be honest, when I saw the video of my soldier in full makeup, it took me a few minutes to even consider if he was a CD. Soldiers do some much stupid sh*t that it is barely a consideration, even coming form an officer who is a CD!

JessicaJ805

01-13-2012, 11:49 AM

I recently retired from the Navy and was an on/off crossdresser during that time. The off times were while in basic and school, and while on the ship or deployed overseas. However, the times when I was shore based I was living off-base in my own apartment and was able to dress in private all the time. So basically what I am saying is just use some common sense...and you might have to put off your dressing urges for a year now and then while your deployed, but when home, got for it!

Stephanie47

01-13-2012, 12:42 PM

If they can get away with THIS in the Army.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haHXgFU7qNI

....just saying....

Well, would you rather watch that video, which I did, or the video of the marines pissing on the dead Afghanis? When you're in an isolated forward operating base and have too much time on your hands in between people trying to kill you, you have the tendency to blow off steam in some of the most ridiculous ways imaginable. I served two years forty years ago, There were openly gay/lesbian soldiers. There was a 'suspected' cross dresser, who was talked about but no one really knew.

Having resided in one of the largest military base complexes in the USA some of the most news worthy cases concerning pre-DADT regulations were heart breaking. Service personnel with absolutely stellar records of service were tossed out because ONE commander pushed the issue of sexuality. As to can see from the posts there are regulations concerning 'inappropriate' military behavior. The point to remember is that ONE person may have an issue with cross dressing and will make your life hell. If there is a regulation against any type of behavior, and, the commander chooses to apply the remedy for such behavior, the chain of command cannot ignore the issue. There have been personnel discharged from the local base due to conduct unbecoming, which was marital infidelity. In civilian life you can screw your neighbor, but, not if you're in the military.

As to service background checks, they can be superficial or detailed. When I went through one for one of the "spy" agencies, the background check was conducted by both FBI and CIA investigators, who knocked on every door in the neighborhood checking on my activities and integrity.

Just keep in mind, if somebody wants to make life hell for you, he can do it. Above all, if you're in the combat arms, keep your ass down and your head down further!

Jaimie

01-29-2012, 01:08 PM

SLDN has some great info on this topic.

http://www.sldn.org/content/pages/transgender-service1

confusedinheels

01-29-2012, 03:30 PM

WOW there is some interesting info/opinions in here. :) Some really good advice too. My :2c: it will be tough, and if you pursue it you should be VERY careful for the various reasons mentioned. As to why you should have to be, why the Militarty in general even cares... well there are rules for EVERYTHING. Quite literally everything. Even rules that contradict other rules. Welcome to the Army. :D It doesn't have to make sense. What the many in "general public" don't understand is one of the basic principles of the military. You give up many of your rights, in order to protect theirs. That is the burden our nations fighting men and women carry.

Until you reach sufficient rank to be immune to BS, life will "suck". :) Really its not that bad, but unless you've been there its hard to understand. Privacy doesn't exist those first couple years. So be ready for that, though it sounds like you already understand that on some level.

An actual investigation for a security clearance is IN DEPTH. Depending on what they find initially will depend on how deep they dig. Financials, where you have lived, family, friends, past employers....it all gets looked into.

One thing I haven't really seen mentioned.....I would suggest not dressing anywhere even near post. If you haven't been exposed to it, cities surrounding installations are really just an extension of that installation. Every third car has a DOD sticker on the window, so is either a service member, or spouse etc. For large bases, you really have to get 50mi or so away before that thins out appreciably. Just something to consider if you are trying to make sure you don't run into someone you might know/recognize. That being said, the Army isn't THAT big of an organization. You will run into people you recognize in the least likely places.

Life for me would not be the same without my past service. Even with the sacrifices/deployment etc... it got me where I am and I am proud to have served. :thumbsup: If its something you really want, then go for it. Regrets are forever, while hardships can be overcome.