Really? ... Really?

[GBJoker]

Mods, if this is a bad place to post this thread, feel free to move/delete it. Also, this thread is rated... PG13?... PG16. Discretion is advised.

Main Topic;

Really? Seriously? Okay, look, I know this is a forum website all about the entire spectrum of transgenderism, and obviously, dedicated sections to all the various aspects of it; clothes, make up, hair, loved ones ("SOs"), and more private sections for GGs, GMs, etc. I found this site almost two years ago and "lurked" on it for a year and a half until I got up the nerve to make an account and start trying to make friends, and more importantly, just talk about random topics. I'm doing my best to leave my opinions and emotions out of all threads on this forum in order that I may provide the most help I can offer to any random person I bump into, because, obviously, there's gonna be a day when I need help for stuff. Like that evil, horrible, downright cruel thing called "make up."

So I am forced to wonder, why are there so many threads outside of the "Loved Ones" section, and maybe the GM/GG sections about sex, or so many that simply disolve into talking about sex? Clearly, the board does not currently have 50 or more percent of its threads concerning sex, but I estimate the figure to be around 15 to 25 percent, it seems. I saw a thread last month or so wondering if any one has ever "done it" while dressed, and another thread discussing fantasies concerning the transgendered spectrum. And of course, there has been at least two threads so far in the main Crossdressing Section asking seemingly, oh, how can I put this, "sophmoric (sp)" questions about sexuality. I can understand the issues concerning sex when it comes to all out transsexualism, or transvestitism, since the former deals with how one might be having sex in the future, and the latter is a sex fetish, but I do not comprehend how sex is a factor in any other subject. (Personally, I'm still failing to comprehend why it's in the "Loved Ones" section, really.)

I admit, I most likely have the strongest bias towards this subject of all the members of the forum. I am a virgin; I've never been kissed even, or gone on a date with either gender. I joined an InCel site, and it was horrible. Every member, of both sexes, just sat around complaining about being InCels. I left within a week. But I never talked to them about crossdressing or physics, for example. Also, I'm just not comfortable talking about it. The topic bothers me deeply, I don't like it. Why? I don't know; maybe because I'm an InCel, maybe because of past experiences, who knows. The point is, I didn't join this site to talk about sexual topics. I feel extremely uncomfortable responding to any thread, because it just feels like every one eventually ties back into it. The only thing I can even think of for why I'm so bothered by it is because I don't understand it. And as we all know, humans tend not to like things they don't understand.

Look, I'm not venting, or ranting. I'm trying to start a dialogue of sorts. Thus far, the site has been helpful in one or two ways, but I'm just really wanting to get the full information on this one aspect of my life, and more importantly, only this one aspect, from this website. When it comes to the topic of transgenderism, I've done virtually all of the psychological research, the biological research, and now I'm just left with opinions from various peoples. I want to stay on the site, but some days, it's just really hard to force myself back on here. I mean, I think I've made one or two "sort of" friends here already, so, I don't want to just suddenly up and leave.

Should I just start making judgement calls based on the name and topic of a random thread, or do I start severly localizing my activities? Any other thoughts, opinions, etc?

PS: Always feel free to PM the Joker. Maybe I should just make that my sig... Hmm...

[Melody1985]

Hmmm.. In my opinion, this site doesn't involve sex talk hardly at all. Maybe I have just seen quite a few other sites that focused primarily on sex to the degree that it makes this site seem rated "G".

I would imagine that your concern has alot to do with having no intimacy to this point of your life.. But then again, some people just dont put much weight on sex. That's fine, but I seriously don't see alot of sex talk, and if any, it's very minimal and indirect. Either way, you can just not pay attention to those posts. To be honest, their are posts that I skip after the first read sentence. No one is forcing you to read a thread or a post.

If people want to talk about this though, it's truly their prerogative. Where else can CDers talk to other CDers about these topics.. Not every one is in therapy or groups.

Good topic though!

[Imeni]

I suppose, since I'm waiting in a queue just to play my online game, I have more than enough time to post on this topic.

Ive been lurking this here website for six months, maybe up to a year. I honestly don't remember. Out of all the posts that I've read in the General Thread, and I stick there due to bordem, mostly, and alot of these threads are a great way to cure that for a few minutes, I don't ever recall ever seeing a topic on sex. Ever. Maybe they get moved, or flagged and disposed of. There are alot of talk about Significant Others, potentially ruined marrigaes and or those who decided to take a big step going out in the world. (Kudos for them).

But if you want an honest answer, I have no idea what an InCel is. I will go look after I make this post. But life, for those who choose to have sex as part of their adult life, everything revolves around it. Everything. Men expect it, Women use it for leverage. Both usually enjoy it. Hell, even for a crossdresser, just wearing a dress can be full of so much raw emotion that it either vents off as such or they are simply aroused by something taboo. All I can really tell you is, if you live a certain way and choose to do so, good for you for making such a strong, personal decision. But the rest of the world has not. Most of the world has not. And as you'll come to notice about alot of people, they are gonna do what they want and don't care who it hurts. Especially on the internet. :)

[Miranda-E]

I'm doing my best to leave my opinions and emotions out of all threads on this forum

doesn't seem like it



I admit, I most likely have the strongest bias towards this subject of all the members of the forum. I am a virgin; I've never been kissed even, or gone on a date with either gender.

Did you just put details about your sex life in a rant about posts mentioning sex lives?

[Julogden]

For a lot of CD's, dressing is a very sexual activity and sex is the main reason they dress, but to be honest, I have't seen all that much sexual content here. I wouldn't be hanging around here if the focus here was heavily sexual, as that's not my reason for dressing, and I've been here quite a while.

Carol

[Karren H]

If I remember correctly... Sex was very over rated any way!! I think! I should have been a nun!

[Imeni]

If I remember correctly... Sex was very over rated any way!! I think! I should have been a nun!

Karen, hun, who are you kiddin'? You're simply to gorgeous to not be yourself. Don't make the world suffer, which if would if you left us. <3

[Jane G]

[QUOTE=GBJoker;2700714] I'm doing my best to leave my opinions and emotions out of all threads on this forum QUOTE]

Don't kid your self girl. :eek:Your entire post is filled with opinions and stong emotions. Try to take a step back, let life come to you for a little while and stop reading post if you find they contain things that offend you. There is far more laughing and joking and fun interaction to be had on this site, than talk about sexual matters, so focus on those threads.

Just try to chill a little.:daydreaming:

[Stephenie S]

Uhh, sex? What's that?

S

[jillleanne]

Yes, start making judgement calls and that will allow you to become interactive here as well as on Call of Duty( I'm guessing at that one).

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi JBJ, There's aways that little red box with an (X)
in the upper right hand corner of your monitor.

Orchid

[Sally24]

Considering the topics here I actually am surprised how little sex talk there is here. I'll give the advise I always give to people who complain about topics. FILTER! You don't have to read every post. Pick.and choose which ones to read and which to respond to. I love the breadth of information and discussions on this forum. It's one of the first things I noticed. And yes I agree that since you have no first hand knowledge of any kind involving intimate interactions with others you are oversensitive to the topic. I would be more concerned with your lack of socialization than the amount of sex topics on this forum.

[Pamela Kay]

I had always lurked on sites and never joined because many of them were based on sex or were just plain nasty. I lurked on this site for about 2 or 3 weeks and then joined because it obviously wasn't that way. It was a group of people with a common interest that had honest and clean discussions and was truly interested in helping others. Humans are sexual creatures whether we want to deny it or not. Anytime you start discussing things dealing with gender and crossing historically or socially defined gender lines the subject of sex is going to come up if you talk about it long enough. Wearing clothes that are "sexy" or telling someone they look "sexy" in a forum on crossdressing, transgender, or transexual issues is far from dwelling on sex in my opinion.

I have learned very quickly on this site that gender and sex or sexual orientation are two different subjects. It's also easy to get caught up in the "labels", whether your InCel, CD, Transgender, Transexual, etc., etc., you are you and only you can say who and what you are. I am still figuring that out myself but this site has helped me considerably.

No one reads every thread on here, that's why they are broken out into different sections. Read the ones that interest you and ignore the one's that don't. As the old saying goes, "it wouldn't be much fun if we all thought the same way".

[BRANDYJ]

In all the threads I have read, sex is not mentioned often. And when it is mentioned, it usually is in context to the OP's question, opinion or topic. But it is always in good taste and never pornographic or to graphic. I can't think of any other site for us that are transgendered at any level, where the topic of sex in inappropriate. We have the best moderators and administrators collect at one site that make good calls when things might get to graphic.
I agree with the thought that you are a virgin that prompted this post to begin with. I'm sorry that you don't like ANY talk of sex and felt a need to make it known to us. But really, I think it is you that has the problem and not the few members that posted anything sexual. Sorry OP, you are in a very small minority in a few ways here. But as others have said, there is the X key in the upper right hand corner of your screen. But to be fair, I sometimes see threads I don't like too. But I just go to another thread more to my liking.

[Marleena]

@Joker you simply need to read or involve yourself only with what you feel comfortable with here. I see very little dealing with sex here other than one's sexual persuasion or where they fit into the sexual realm of things ( TG/TS/CD,etc.).

I lurked for awhile here before deciding to join after I felt it was safe to do so. I am not looking for sex or dating like many of the similar sites out there are only about. This is one incredibly clean site based on the topics it deals with.

[Cynthia Anne]

One of the great things in life is we all have the freedom to choose! Sometimes a subject comes up here that I myself don't want to comment on! Damn, I have the freedom to choose! Sex talk here is at most pg rated! And that is on the worst days!
I will not judge another but I have to wonder if perhaps the problem may be that someone is feeling sorry for themselves for missing out on a very rewarding and natrual asspect of life! Many a times when one complains about somthing it's because they feel left out! FREEDOM TO CHOOSE!!! Hugs!

[Tamara Croft]

I would like you to make a list of sexual threads and post the links here, because threads of an explicit sexual nature are NOT allowed on this board, so unless you are talking about threads that have very little sexual content that is permitted, I think you're blowing things way out of proportion...

[Barbara Ella]

Really!!!

What we notice the most is usually what we are concerned with the most.

I don't find this site overly sexed up, the reason I joined here. the man/woman dichotomy is sexual in nature, and our embracing of the feminine side and expressing it the only way we can, by dressing, and acting out must have a sexual component regardless of the level of involvement. I have only been a member a little over a month, but am very happy with the balance here.

OH Karren, would the sisters let you carry a hockey stick in your habits??? Hugs

Babes

[Aprilrain]

WTF is an InCell?? and WTF does it have to do with CDing and physics??
girl you need to get laid!

[PretzelGirl]

Well, first for all, Google tells me InCel is Involuntary Celibacy.

GBJoker, I am guessing that this is a matter of perception. If you are celibate, you may find that sex discussion is very limited in your life. So for many others, we could have some talk here and it just fits into the daily discussion where is may be a lot to you. It isn't too much or over the top to us. And there are a few that I see the beginning of and move to the next thread. That is because I am not interested and just move on. There is no way for the board to completely sort out every possible topic, it would be a monumental task. So you have to exercise your choice to read or not read a given thread. And if you think that there are sexual topics here, then you will probably have more of a problem with just about any other site out there for Crossdressers. This one is intentionally (Thank you!) toned down.



Uhh, sex? What's that?

Isn't it right after five?

[Melissa_Ky]

InCel is involuntary celibacy. GBJoker is not ranting about too much sex in her life. She is ranting about NONE in her life and not by her choosing it that way.

GBJoker, I hope you can get more involved here and that you will feel welcome and comfortable. There is really not that much direct talk about sex and what little there is can be skipped. I hope the New Year brings you happiness and intimacy.

Melissa

[sandra-leigh]

Context: in the past, GBJoker has said that discussions of sex make her nauseous and upset her greatly (e.g., has to leave the room if people start discussing sex or even joking about it.) I would speculate that she is sensitive even to allusions and undertones that the majority of people would not pay attention to.

I have some sympathy, but I do not know that anything can realistically be changed.

[Raychel Torn]

Joker,

Thanks for sharing your feelings. I don't think anyone on this site should feel that they should keep emotions out of their posts. This site is all about sharing and that means your feelings and ideas. Now as to the sex issue. While there are a number of posts that have something to do with sex, I would hope that this is true. A very large number of us are in relationships with SO and many of us would like to be if we are not. Many good supportive relationship will have some sexual element to it and that sexual part of the relationship is often in some way effected by CD'ing. Sometimes it is a good effect and other time a bad one. Either way we are here to share our emotions and experiences with each other and that includes the "privet" ones.

I hope that you will be able to see that we are dealing with each other as whole people that that will include our sexuality in many cases. As we move on, I hope that you will be able to see that we can respect your non-sexual persona and only ask that you respect our more sexual lives. It will be good to get your perspective on our situation and hear more about your feelings as we move along.

[Barbra P]

Hi Joker

Let me say state at the outset that I am not intending to disrespect (diss) or put you down in any way but I’ve been on this site virtually every day since I joined back in May and I’m not detecting the same level of sexual content that you are. I’ve run across a few sexually explicit posts, and a few from new members seeking sexual partners, but both the threads and the new members quickly disappear thanks to the wonderful moderators here. While gender identification and sexual preference don’t necessarily have any direct connection, and one does not necessarily influence the other, one generally brings to mind the other. Regardless of the subject matter certain words and phrasing have a sexual connotation and will invariably raise thoughts of a sexual nature in the minds of healthy adults of both sexes.

“I've already essentially come out of the closet about both being T and being a bisexual.” That quote is from you in your introductory thread, where you quite obviously disclose your sexual preference – bisexual. You could simply have stated that you were out of the closet, or been more precise and said you were out of the closet as a TG, but you chose to include the fact that you also regard yourself as being bisexual – clearly sexual in nature. But in this current thread you state “I am a virgin; I've never been kissed even, or gone on a date with either gender” and “The topic [sex] bothers me deeply, I don't like it. Why? I don't know; maybe because I'm an InCel, maybe because of past experiences, who knows.” That raises the question of how you know you are bisexual, and what past experiences could you possibly be referring to if you haven’t even been kissed by either gender?

You further state “I joined an InCel site, and it was horrible. Every member, of both sexes, just sat around complaining about being InCels. I left within a week. But I never talked to them about crossdressing or physics, for example. Also, I'm just not comfortable talking about i.” and I’m not sure what you mean by “it”, Celibacy, Crossdressing, Physics? I can understand why a group that is all about Involuntary Celibacy would be talking about sex as celibacy is all about not having sex whether it is voluntary or involuntary, and I don’t really see a connection between crossdressing and celibacy so I don’t see any reason why you would discuss crossdressing with an InCel group.

Could it be that there isn’t too much sexual content on the forums but you are imagining sexual content where none was intended?

[Badtranny]

Joker I think you might be referring to some of the silliness that goes on, but talking about actual sex?

I personally would love to see a grown up discussion about adult sexuality. Trans people have a unique experience and it would be nice to be able to talk about things without it devolving into something vulgar. For that matter, it would be nice to have substantive discussions about religion or politics without people getting red faced.

People are losing the ability to debate so instead of encourage it, we just fill in the space with shopping and panties.

[kimdl93]

.... The point is, I didn't join this site to talk about sexual topics. I feel extremely uncomfortable responding to any thread, because it just feels like every one eventually ties back into it. ...

I have been a pretty active member of this site since joining two years ago, and I would question whether even 15% of the threads deal with any sexual topic. And as noted by others, the mods do a pretty good job of screening out those posts of a patently offensive nature.

That being said, I would suggest that you are under no obligation to read or respond to threads dealing with sexuality if the topic is that difficult for you. And, as others have noted, sexuality is a fundemental part of human nature. Its how we procreate, but beyond that, sexuality is a very important aspect of how we define ourselves and how we interact with and build relationships others.

I'm not particularly interested in the topic for its purient interest, but as BadTranny suggests, I would certainly applaud mature and rational discussion of sexuality as it relates to the lives of individuals who define themselves aos CD, transgender or transexual.

[Nigella]

Joker I think you might be referring to some of the silliness that goes on, but talking about actual sex?

I personally would love to see a grown up discussion about adult sexuality. Trans people have a unique experience and it would be nice to be able to talk about things without it devolving into something vulgar. For that matter, it would be nice to have substantive discussions about religion or politics without people getting red faced.

People are losing the ability to debate so instead of encourage it, we just fill in the space with shopping and panties.

Mellisa, not sure where you visit, but this forum does have a religious forum, you only need to apply for membership. Discussions of a political or religious nature are kept out of the main forum because they are such devisive topics. Sexuality is a topic that is permitted providing that the discussion does not degenerate into a pornographic free for all.

The issue is that sexuality and sex are two different subjects, but at times they are so interlinked by some members that the thread soon degenerates which results in the thread being closed or deleted.

[Badtranny]

The issue is that sexuality and sex are two different subjects, but at times they are so interlinked by some members that the thread soon degenerates which results in the thread being closed or deleted.

Exactly. I'm really just crying about the current state of internet forums in general. I remember the wonderful Usenet discussions about all manner of things in a world that was predominately un-moderated.

I also remember the beginning of the end. Anyone recall the mood shift when the AOL email addresses started showing up in the headers?

[LilSissyStevie]

Well, you're the one that brought it up. :D Try this, set a timer to go off every 15 minutes throughout the day. Whenever the timer goes off tell yourself, "Don't think about banjos." Try it and see if it's an effective way to not think about banjos.

[GBJoker]

The dominate opinion seems to be that I should just leave the website and/or that I'm lying/making things up. All righty, off to a good start.

Miranda-E, BLUE ORCHID, BRANDYJ, LilSissySteve:

So... I should leave the site?

Aprilrain, Imeni, Cynthia Anne, Raychel Torn:

Involuntary celibracy is not a choice. The most basic of Google searches could have told you that.

Melissa_Ky, Sally24;

Your post is what this site is advertised as being like. Unfortunately, to summarize BRANDYJ, you're a minority, so shut up or leave.

[RACH99]

WTF is an InCell?? and WTF does it have to do with CDing and physics??
girl you need to get laid!


OMG, seriously, I need to wipe the Pepsi off my monitor now since I just sent it spraying across the bloody thing.

Look up incel and you'll understand why that one statement has me lmao.


Joker I think that because you are sensitive to the topic [sex/sexuality] you see what so many of us have become desensitized to. It isn't you see so much sex but that we no longer even notice it.

Please don't leave just yet. Maybe filtering will work or just leaving any thread that causes discomfort for you. No shame in that Joker. I do it myself. I have triggers and I have learned to look out for them. But I won't leave this site because a portion causes me discomfort. It's a balance and a trade off of sorts. I get so much more from this site than it costs me to hit that back button on occasion.

BTW I'm glad to meet you. And hey I even learned a new word. Gotta' love a place that teaches you something new all the time eh?

[Badtranny]

OMG, seriously, I need to wipe the Pepsi off my monitor now since I just sent it spraying across the bloody thing.
Look up incel and you'll understand why that one statement has me lmao.

Just so ya know, April is quite bright and any humor enjoyed from her remark is very likely to be intentional. ;-)

[LilSissyStevie]

So... I should leave the site?

Please don't leave on my account. I rather like the diversity of topics and opinion. You should too, IMO.

[RACH99]

Just so ya know, April is quite bright and any humor enjoyed from her remark is very likely to be intentional. ;-)

Good to know. :lol: She's got my vote for best post of the day.

[Kristy_K]

I myself haven't seen any sex type talk on this site. If there was than I probably won't be on it. But there are some good posts and wonderful people.

[sallyissuper]

I too would like to see a more grown up discussion about sexuality. I'm sure we all have some questions about that part of our lives. Sex is kept at a minimum on this site. On the other hand I have learned a great deal about myself here and thank everyone for sharing their insights.

[Miranda-E]

I also remember the beginning of the end. Anyone recall the mood shift when the AOL email addresses started showing up in the headers?

The year September never ended.

[Julia_in_Pa]

My opinion on this won't win me any CD friends but that's how it is.

Men as a whole are traditionally driven by sex.

It's in their genetic makeup.

Testosterone is the driving hormone within the male anatomy.

With these points made it's not difficult to ascertain that healthy heterosexual male cross dressers are driven by their genetic makeup.

The majority of cross dressers are not undergoing hormone therapy that would otherwise qualm and suppress male sexual drive and behavior thus sexual thoughts being at the surface of the consciousness.

Men as a whole are driven by sexual proclivity .

Men displaying cross dressing behavior combined with male sexual drive equals discussions about........wait for it......SEX!

You can just ignore those threads as I do.


Julia

[Nigella]

OK, lets get this thread back on topic, it is not about sex, it is about the OPs opinion that there is a number of threads that they are uncomfortable with and the question was


Should I just start making judgement calls based on the name and topic of a random thread, or do I start severly localizing my activities? Any other thoughts, opinions, etc?


Respond to this please, if you wish to discuss sexuality, start a new thread, but remember the thread will be closed if the discussion turns to the topic of sex.

Nigella
Super Moderator

[Miranda-E]

Should I just start making judgement calls based on the name and topic of a random thread,

yes, thats all a rational person can do.


or do I start severly localizing my activities? Any other thoughts, opinions, etc?

yes, if printed words make you that uncomfortable, its what you have to do.

[Kathi Lake]

The dominate opinion seems to be that I should just leave the website and/or that I'm lying/making things up. All righty, off to a good start.

GB, if, while reading these responses, you see that the dominant opinion is that you should leave, I think that I see both the reason why you seem to think that there is too much "sex" spoken here, and the reason why you may be an InCel; a tendency to read things that may not be there, and a tendency to take offense where none may be.

If you go into a thread with preconceived ideas, you will find your perceptions already "colored" by that idea. If you are looking for the truth, don't look for it with your own truth already in mind.

As for the sexual threads, the moderators ensure that none here get too racy, and many here thank them for that. There are other forums out there that are the wild and wooly West by comparison. As someone that has been self-described as a "prude," and others have described as, "an asexual soccer-mom," I for one am glad that this forum is not like that. I went to one of those forums once, and felt the strong need to take a bath afterwards. :)

So, do we want you to leave? Certainly not! We want you to learn, to grow, and to help us learn and grow as well. Understand that in learning more about us, you may find that others' motivations may be a little bit different than your own. If you find a thread that you don't agree with, move along - not to another forum, but simply to another thread.

Kathi

[carhill2mn]

I read your post twice trying to better understand what you were trying to say. Even then, I am at a loss to see where you get the impression that so much of what is posted is about "sex". I have found that this forum is about so much more and sex is not mentioned very often.

[StarrOfDelite]

Joker: I find myself curious about whether you fantasize about ending your involuntary celibacy, and whether the fantasies involve a man, a woman, a crossdresser, or a menage a trois?

[Brynn_A]

My curiousty comes from a different perspetive. Why be an Incel? Granted, I understand being selective..veen very selective. What I don't get, is hat her are shall we say..more tha few girls and boys that would help you. I'm seriously not trying to be funny, I just wanna understand

[docrobbysherry]

U have ISSUES! :brolleyes:

You're very young! (Compared to me!):heehee:

You're a virgin.
(U know, u can have plenty of sex and still be a virgin? I did. I was a virgin until age 23. But, had both hi school and college girlfriends that were like bunnies in bed!:o)

You're very smart, (maybe too smart?), and opinionated.

Well, we may be able to HELP U! I think I certainly could. U sound like me at age 21! I'm over 60 now. I thot I knew everything back then! Now, I don't know ANYTHING!:brolleyes:

But, if u WANT HELP, u need to ask for it. Just stop being so darned bull headed and defensive! Tell us what u NEED! We're here JUST FOR CDs LIKE U!:D

[JulieK1980]

Joker: I find myself curious about whether you fantasize about ending your involuntary celibacy, and whether the fantasies involve a man, a woman, a crossdresser, or a menage a trois?

The involuntary part sort of negates this question don't you think? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "involuntary" mean NOT by choice? I.E. A cancer patient on chemotherapy is involuntarily celibate because of the side effects of the chemo.

[darci.c]

Ok, came across a word several times in your post. The word "incel." I know what it means.

I was "incel" when I was younger. At the age of 22, I had decided that I would take all the money I had ever saved in my life and blow it all in one grand trip to New York City. My plan was to have as much unashamed fun as I could possibly have, doing everything my conservative home town personality could never dream of, and when the money ran out... find a tall building to fly off of and kiss the world goodbye.

By some miracle, I met a girl at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, hit it off with her entirely by accident, and spent the next several days recording events in my history which I will never forget.

Before it was all over, I realized a lot about myself. A short list might look like this:

- Sex is part of life. Not the act. The connection, the giving, the nonverbal communication. Take it away, and we are emotionally and spiritually starved.
- Religious beliefs can be misguided. There is much politics and control in religion. Don't take it all as gospel (even though you're told otherwise)
- Much of what culture calls "sex" is a desperate search for filling empty holes in your soul. You can commit the act of (insert f-word here) but end up empty. Real sex is not about that. It's about revelation and honesty and gift-giving.
- Focusing on "virginity" or "getting laid" leads nowhere. I myself did this, wondering what it said about me that I was a virgin at 22. Did it mean I was unlovable? Undesirable? That I should just give up and die? Nope.
- We are who we are. And there is no-one else we are born to be. The real victory is that you have to reveal to everyone around you this truth, whatever it is, and run with it. Holding yourself back, denying what you are, editing your personality or behavior all lead to a "cognitive dissonance" (to use a psychological term) which you try to be one thing that you know you are not. And then you wonder why it comes off as awkward or disingenuous to others. People are smart, and deep down inside they know and feel when someone isn't being real around them.


I won't give you advice. I can only tell you what worked for me. The moment I realized that I had to make changes to my behavior and lifestyle so that it reflected myself honestly was the moment that I set myself free.

When you feel what you feel, your next task is to find a way to put it to use constructively. If you're frustrated or desperate about whatever, it means something. It means that there is a voice deep inside you, in the soul that god gave you, telling you that your job is to make changes in the world so that it looks more beautiful to you.

I'm not saying I've changed myself overnight. I'm saying that stuff like this is what I say to myself every day, because I know it's true.

[StarrOfDelite]

The involuntary part sort of negates this question don't you think? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "involuntary" mean NOT by choice? I.E. A cancer patient on chemotherapy is involuntarily celibate because of the side effects of the chemo.

The way I understand the limited amount of information I have read about involuntary celibacy, it's far more complex than that, and could involve psychological sublimation of sexual impulses, including homosexual or transsexual impulses. The OP's take, at least the way I read it, was that she was choosing not to participate on the forum because 1. she didn't want to have anything to do with sexual discussions, and 2. most of the discussions on the forum wound up talking about sex in an explicit manner. Clearly she was rejecting any public discussion of sexuality (I believe that she was just plain wrong about the sexual orientation of the forum), so I was curious whether her attitude was due to a rejection of sex absolutely, or whether she has a fantasy sex life. Rejecting sex as a topic of conversation would indicate that her condition is something other than situational involuntary celibacy, perhaps indicative of a mindset that is asexual or even anti-sexual. Most people have active sexual fantasy lives, and I was concerned that if the OP did not then she should be seeking more significant professional help than just a support group. Many crossdressers who are sure that they are not gay have fantasies about being sexually active as a woman, and are disturbed and frightened by them, if those feelings rise to a level where they cause a person to reject all sexual impulses that does not seem to me to be conducive to good mental health.

[JulieK1980]

The way I understand the limited amount of information I have read about involuntary celibacy, it's far more complex than that, and could involve psychological sublimation of sexual impulses, including homosexual or transsexual impulses. The OP's take, at least the way I read it, was that she was choosing not to participate on the forum because 1. she didn't want to have anything to do with sexual discussions, and 2. most of the discussions on the forum wound up talking about sex in an explicit manner. Clearly she was rejecting any public discussion of sexuality (I believe that she was just plain wrong about the sexual orientation of the forum), so I was curious whether her attitude was due to a rejection of sex absolutely, or whether she has a fantasy sex life. Rejecting sex as a topic of conversation would indicate that her condition is something other than situational involuntary celibacy, perhaps indicative of a mindset that is asexual or even anti-sexual. Most people have active sexual fantasy lives, and I was concerned that if the OP did not then she should be seeking more significant professional help than just a support group. Many crossdressers who are sure that they are not gay have fantasies about being sexually active as a woman, and are disturbed and frightened by them, if those feelings rise to a level where they cause a person to reject all sexual impulses that does not seem to me to be conducive to good mental health.

I could be wrong on this, but involuntary celibacy whether it be situational or otherwise, is not indicative of good mental health. Either as a cause or symptom.

[KellyJameson]

Wow, just when I thought there was nothing left to learn about my sexuality I learn something new. Involuntary celibacy would explain alot about my problems with sex because I find the whole experience far to intense, unnatural and overwhelming and wonder how people actually enjoy it.

For myself I do not know how to be primal, how to experience my animal nature because the act has elements of aggresion to it and those currents do not run through my blood so for me the appetite is not there but I often wish it was. I'm healthy in every way, to healthy if thats possible and sickness is as foreign to me as the surface of Mars but I'm a creature of the mind and abstract thought is my heaven and to far removed from my animal spirits to find my way back assuming that would even be possible.

Sex is the blood of life and without it the earth would be a barren landscape so I give thanks to the forces that make it possible, that made me possible but I understand the pain of living separate from what others take for granted and you have my condolences because it is everywhere and touches everything so if you desire this experience than you are reminded every moment of being denied your natural heritage and it does not end with sex but extends out to include the difficulty of finding a life partner, having a family and feeling a part of the world. Understanding and relating to others is difficult when you feel like you come from another planet.

Thanks for the insights, once more I'm reminded of the power of words and the free exchange of knowledge to open new avenues of thought and understanding.

As individuals much of what others say and do can be painful to witness and or experience but there is a way to escape this pain and it is by developing your own personal power to shape a space in this world that fits your unique shape. There is a temptation to try and change or control others but the amount of energy you use and the conflict it will cause you would be better served if directed inward through the discovery of self, the more you understand yourself the less you will suffer. True power lies within but it requires a lifetime of commitment to develop and when we are in pain we want immediate relief but it really is the only way.

[StarrOfDelite]

Jody: Actually, my understanding is that you are wrong to some extent. The condition may just be due to damn bad luck. Studies have shown that the incidence of neuroses, diseases, poor social skills, unfortunate physiques, low intellectual capacity, or homely physiognomies among the involuntarily celibate are no higher statistically than among those who are either monogamous or promiscuous. The old joke about the unlucky sailor who couldn't get laid in a ***** house with a fist full of money on the day before the rest of the fleet got paid seems to be apropos.

Edit: LOL! substitute brothel for asterisk house.

[JulieK1980]

Jody: Actually, my understanding is that you are wrong to some extent. The condition may just be due to damn bad luck. Studies have shown that the incidence of neuroses, diseases, poor social skills, unfortunate physiques, low intellectual capacity, or homely physiognomies among the involuntarily celibate are no higher statistically than among those who are either monogamous or promiscuous. The old joke about the unlucky sailor who couldn't get laid in a ***** house with a fist full of money on the day before the rest of the fleet got paid seems to be apropos.

forgive me, it was an attempt at being wry, because I don't think lacking a healthy sex-life for involuntary reasons is conducive to good mental health. I actually know little of "incel" and what I do know I'm only learning from my own "Google" searches this evening. I've never crossed paths with the term before here, and quite frankly Google is lacking on the subject. Seems more of a slang term for asexuality and/or ED to me.

[donnalee]

GBJ - Just a few clarifications, please:

You say that your celibacy is involuntary, i.e. you wish to have sex, but are unable to do so.
Is this due to a physical or psychological problem of yours, or is it that you are unable to find anyone else willing to participate?
I don't know your age or upbringing, but haven't you ever heard of hookers (also known as working girls, ladies of the evening etc. and a number of less polite titles) ?
If that is not your desire, there are others willing to accommodate you.
Prostitution is legal in at least one state that I am aware of (Nevada, although not in Las Vegas and some other areas). Why not visit a legal brothel there, which will give you less worries from a medical as well as a legal standpoint? If you are embarrassed, I'm sure you can find someone to bring you along gently.
Are you complaining about a perceived abundance of sexual posts and/or threads? I do not find that the case here; in fact, the attractive thing about this site is the lack of many of these topics, as they are available in every kind of flavor all over the internet and are far from novel.
In short, what are you complaining about?

[Vickie_CDTV]

If Wikipedia's definition of InCel is correct, I am very sorry and I can relate to the pain you feel. While I have had relationships in my life there were periods of time I went through periods of absolute lovelessness (am currently in this situation), and for a male it can be very painful (emotionally and perhaps even physically.) I have found those who have not experienced this kind of issue really cannot understand how painful it can be (not that I say that in any attempt to garner some sort of sympathy, likewise I cannot truly understand the pain a cancer patient go through, or the emotional pain of losing a child.) Most of the population is socialized properly and experience some form of relationship when they are young (and learn how to date and find a partner), and it is just something they don't have to deal with.

I can understand why seeing posts of a sexuality related nature is upsetting, but at the same time it is part of life, and you will find a discussion of such on many forums not just trans related ones. I'd recommen just skipping over them, and try not to take it personally and get frustrated (I know it may not be easy to do; when I was rather young I remember I could not stand to see two people kiss because it was a frustrating reminder of what I could not have.)

As far as finding someone, I don't know what your orientation is, but if you are attracted to other trans people (or can adapt your sexuality to it), you might want to consider it. There are a lot of lonely TV/TS out there (not all by any means, but lonliness is common in our community), and if you are already comfortable with the trans community it is a good way to meet other lonely TV/TS.

[karanne]

Hi JBJ, There's aways that little red box with an (X)
in the upper right hand corner of your monitor.

OrchidRed box? I don't see that, but then again, I've been Micro$oft - free for many years!

Linux rules!

[Kaz]

Involuntary is an interesting word. Discuss...

[Stephenie S]

Involuntary celibacy?

Oh for goodness sake. Now I have ANOTHER thing to worry about?

Remember? I'm the one who asked, "What's sex?"

I guess I have been incel for the last 10 - 15 years. At least I now have a name for it. We used to call it lousy luck.

[sandra-leigh]

OK, lets get this thread back on topic, it is not about sex, it is about the OPs opinion that there is a number of threads that they are uncomfortable with

I agree, and I quoted that because I can see that people have lost sight of that.

So analogies and approximations then:

It is not uncommon on this site for discussions to turn to chocolate. But we have a member indicating that just reading about eating a small amount of chocolate makes them feel sick. Now what? Declare that chocolate is not essential to the discussions here and so cannot be mentioned or alluded to? Require all mentions of chocolate to take place only in a closed forum?

It is not uncommon on this site for discussions to turn to hunting, fishing, steak dinners, pork chops, and the like. I am a long time vegetarian (20+ years), and many of those discussions disturb me. Now what? Declare that such topics are not essential to the discussions here and so cannot be mentioned or alluded to? Require all mentions of those topics to take place only in a closed forum?

Numerous people here struggle to reconcile cross-dressing with their Faith, or struggle to preserve their cross-dressing against pressures that are at least nominally Faith-based. But discussions of such matters often turn... ugly. Now what? Require that such topics take place only in a closed forum? Ah -- actually that is the current policy here.

Broadly speaking, this site has tended to operate on the guideline that civil discussions are permitted (in appropriate forums) unless they discussions have a distinct possibility of harm (e.g., herbals; discussion of dosages), or unless the topic has a history of substantial disruption or interferes with the aims of this site. And yes, it has been indicated more than once that if someone does not like the way things are going, then that person need not stay.

Is this site being substantially disrupted or "re-purposed" by the level of sexuality that is allowed to be discussed at this time? Personally, I do not think it is. (I do recognize that the perennial panty threads make a number of people uncomfortable for various reasons, but having Been There myself at one stage, I find it difficult to condemn those categorically.)

There are some threads here that have disturbed and saddened me considerably. But it is not my site, and not my place to suppose that the site will change to suit me.

Some days it comes down to the old Ann Landers question: "Are you better off with them, or without them?" Each person has to make that decision according to their own self-knowledge.

[Crysten]

I have been a pretty active member of this site since joining two years ago, and I would question whether even 15% of the threads deal with any sexual topic. And as noted by others, the mods do a pretty good job of screening out those posts of a patently offensive nature.

That being said, I would suggest that you are under no obligation to read or respond to threads dealing with sexuality if the topic is that difficult for you. And, as others have noted, sexuality is a fundemental part of human nature. Its how we procreate, but beyond that, sexuality is a very important aspect of how we define ourselves and how we interact with and build relationships others.

I'm not particularly interested in the topic for its purient interest, but as BadTranny suggests, I would certainly applaud mature and rational discussion of sexuality as it relates to the lives of individuals who define themselves aos CD, transgender or transexual.

Yep I agree. I posted a topic entitled "Sex" with a seven word question under it, and it got yanked within about 10 minutes. Aparently, Big Sister is watching - which isn't a bad thing, and proves what everyone is saying. Not much sex on here. I would go so far as to say that's fine with me. Plenty of other places to go for sex on the interwebs. Rule 34 applies as always. And this isn't the place for it, anyway.

[Crysten]

And so....enough with the sex thing -- lets get back to the REALLY fun topic of crossdressing and religion!!! Now there's a never ending discussion. Yikes.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

If I remember correctly... Sex was very over rated any way!! I think! I should have been a nun!

You'd be nothing but trouble as a nun, but you'd definately be a sexy penguin that turns heads. Amen.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

Ok, came across a word several times in your post. The word "incel." I know what it means.

I was "incel" when I was younger. At the age of 22, I had decided that I would take all the money I had ever saved in my life and blow it all in one grand trip to New York City. My plan was to have as much unashamed fun as I could possibly have, doing everything my conservative home town personality could never dream of, and when the money ran out... find a tall building to fly off of and kiss the world goodbye.

By some miracle, I met a girl at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, hit it off with her entirely by accident, and spent the next several days recording events in my history which I will never forget.

Before it was all over, I realized a lot about myself. A short list might look like this:

- Sex is part of life. Not the act. The connection, the giving, the nonverbal communication. Take it away, and we are emotionally and spiritually starved.
- Religious beliefs can be misguided. There is much politics and control in religion. Don't take it all as gospel (even though you're told otherwise)
- Much of what culture calls "sex" is a desperate search for filling empty holes in your soul. You can commit the act of (insert f-word here) but end up empty. Real sex is not about that. It's about revelation and honesty and gift-giving.
- Focusing on "virginity" or "getting laid" leads nowhere. I myself did this, wondering what it said about me that I was a virgin at 22. Did it mean I was unlovable? Undesirable? That I should just give up and die? Nope.
- We are who we are. And there is no-one else we are born to be. The real victory is that you have to reveal to everyone around you this truth, whatever it is, and run with it. Holding yourself back, denying what you are, editing your personality or behavior all lead to a "cognitive dissonance" (to use a psychological term) which you try to be one thing that you know you are not. And then you wonder why it comes off as awkward or disingenuous to others. People are smart, and deep down inside they know and feel when someone isn't being real around them.


I won't give you advice. I can only tell you what worked for me. The moment I realized that I had to make changes to my behavior and lifestyle so that it reflected myself honestly was the moment that I set myself free.

When you feel what you feel, your next task is to find a way to put it to use constructively. If you're frustrated or desperate about whatever, it means something. It means that there is a voice deep inside you, in the soul that god gave you, telling you that your job is to make changes in the world so that it looks more beautiful to you.

I'm not saying I've changed myself overnight. I'm saying that stuff like this is what I say to myself every day, because I know it's true.

I agree with you. Change must come from within if she is ever to look at all that is said here more positively and less critically.

[Beth Mays]

I read several newspapers every day and have learn that any news worthy (sometimes not) event or topic can be interpreted and twisted to the point you can get the response you want by the way you report it.
I was very young and I remember a stand up comedian asking someone (as part of the show) " have you stopped beating your wife"? it was a joke but it show me that you can ask a question in a way there is no real correct way to respond. lawyers do it all the time in the court room, only to withdraw the question.... why??? not because they are looking for an answer so much as "stirring the pot doubt." You can even omit some of the facts yourself in order to make your answor sound better..... to yourself.

The internet is free.. you may pay to access it… but you alone chose what you read and respond to. Opinions are like assholes everybody has one most don’t think theirs stinks, take mine for what it cost you to get it… opinion that is!
On the subject of sex.. I sure am glad Mom & Dad knew what to do back in the summer of '62!