How we think that everyone will know we are a CD'er

[Gillian Gigs]

It amazes me how we as humans think that everyone is thinking just like us. By example, have you ever noticed in games, the card cheater is always on the look out for another card cheater? They seem to think that everyone is a card cheater also. We think that if we like ice cream, then every one must also like ice cream. Don't we do the same with our CD'ing habits? We seem to feel that if we shave our legs, then automatically everyone will make a connection and think "Crossdressing". I do feel that we as a CD'ing community are more aware of other CD'ers, but are we thinking that others are as observant as we are? Personal experience has taught me that most people are not very observant at all. I go shopping and cashiers never say anything more than did you find all that you were looking for? It doesn't matter if it is panties, bras, or a hammer and nails. Are we being fearful for nothing? I wonder if we need to step out of the "they are thinking like me mode", and just get on with life and enjoy what we are doing without worrying about what others are "not" thinking about. What is the worst case senerio, they ask you if these clothes are for you, or why do you shave your legs? To quote a cult's expression, "you only have to tell the truth to those who deserve to hear it". You can always make a joke of it also. We are making a big deal out of something that is next to nothing, because we are thinking that they are thinking just like us, and ergo they will know that we are CD'ers.

[Kayle Adell]

Where as that is true, it harder to put into pratice the into words. But I do get what your saying.

[KellyJameson]

Great thread because it applies to so much more than CDing. We create reality in ours minds and think that this is " truth" but fail to understand our minds are not able to encompass all "truth" ie reality. Truth is layered and multi diamensional so no matter how deep into you go there is another aspect of it. To feel safe we must convince ourselves we understand our world so than project our reality onto others thinking that they think like us. This is why without the courage to face our inner fears we do not expand our truths, i.e. reality and never escape fear and remain in ignorance. Those who survive by harming others live in fear and fear prevents growth so stay in ignorance. ( Karma )

Caring about being perceived as a crossdresser is an expression of fear, imagined and legitimate because there is a real risk to the practice but the only way to move beyond the fear is to discern the difference between real and imagined fear, just like life.

To move beyond the pain of being hurt by words we must expose ourselves to hurt, survive and thrive but yet not tolerate personal attacks on ourselves while learning the skills and wisdom to gently deflect the others attacks on us born from the knowledge and empathy that they like us our trapped by their fears and ignorance. We must learn to defend ourselves without attacking because an attack will create more fear. Gandi used these methods to great advantage.

[BillieJoEllen]

Gillian, I believe that a lot of us are very paranoid; especially when it comes to CDing. After all a lot of us have a lot to lose if we're found out (possibly). Yes, and I too understand what you are saying.

[kimdl93]

I'd agree - most people don't notice or care (or both). And I suspect that as a CDer, I'm more self conscious of myself and the things that I feel may be "tells" when I'm interacting with others in male mode. So far, tho I haven't one experience of anyone asking why my legs are shaved, or is that a woman's top.

Of course, when I'm en femme, which is most of the time, some people do notice and if they ask in a friendly and honestly inquisitive manner, I am happy to tell them what I can. There really haven't been many occassions where anyone has asked a question.

[rachaelsloane]

Gillian,
Your post is so true and on many levels besides the CD'ing. It's human nature to be self conscious, but like learning a new skill (in this case going out), the more I do it, I gain confidence.
Happy New Year,
Rachael

[Lorileah]

Try this. Think about the last time you stood in line for something. What did the person in front of you look like? How long was their hair? Most likely unless they were doing something odd you won't remember. Now the person behind you? Man? Woman? Mustache? Now even try and remember the clerk. You remember their gender maybe, what color were their eyes? What top did they have on under the blue smock? Wedding band?

This can get even deeper, colored hair? Wig? eye shadow? Shoes?

Everyone has their own agenda and as long as you do not interfere with that agenda they don't even know you exist. As Scrouge said
“You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato.".

Now as the next part of our project, spend the day really observing people. Maybe choose one thing like is their hair dyed? Do their socks match? Look at men and see how many have hair on their arms? Natural or removed? Things you didn't look for before you decided to shave your legs or pierce your ears (look at how many men have BOTH ears pierced...there ain't that many CD's out there).

Now look at that person with a full sleeve tattoo. Yes you noticed that easily but now think, how does that effect your life? Are you now unable to eat, drink, think, hold a job, get married? Nope. Their life has not changed yours at all. Your agenda has not changed unless you MAKE it change.

Don't sweat the little things in life...and they are all little things.

[Foxglove]

I think there's something to what you're saying here, Gillian. As someone once said, "Nobody thinks about you as much as you do."

[Marleena]

Gillian, great observation! CDing has gone more mainstream in recent years so subtle vibes or physical changes can get us outed or at least questioned by others. I think I can out myself in guy mode just by being nervous shopping in the women's section, I have the fear of being watched. It's like she must know I'm shopping for me..lol. I think it also depends how far along we are on our journey. The longer you do something the more comfortable you become with it. We tend to be our own worst enemy, I know I am, but I'm learning.

@ Kelly, great post again.:)

[Barbara Ella]

Great thread Gillian. What is uppermost in our minds is what we are thinking about the most. I dont know if I worry whether someone is thinking about me, but when i am in contact with someone and I am in a CD moment, then they are joining my mind in my CD moment, and I believe it is common nature to include them in my thought process. Since they will not know my CD , they are automatically put in the be careful bin, not a conscious thought,but more of the typical thought process. Have to agree, they are small things, and should not be sweated, but in my CD moment, they are the top thing on the mind, and therefore get the biggest amount of concentration, not sweating them, just recognizing them. When the moment is gone, the mind moves on.

All perfectly normal i think, and it all depends on the moment we are in, in our mind, at that particular instant. Best not to obsess, and maintain a free flowing mind (some might say scatterbrained, or lacking a focus?)

Great to talk about this and look and think about how we do things as we have several more things going on than a non CD person might. BUT..can't assume that as we really dont know what they are thinking. Just know that they have other problems on their mind at that moment, so they are probably putting us into one of their bins, and it most likely is not a CD bin.

Babes

[Blodwen]

Interesting topic.

I know exactly what you're talking about. You can feel very exposed and isolated as a cross dresser, thinking that no one has your back and people may be embarrassed to deal with you treating you as not equal. I think deep down if you treat everyone as an equal without judgement then people are unlikely to do the same to you.

Part of it is to do with attracting attention to yourself too I imagine and by that I mean worry affecting body language. I tend to get stared at whatever I wear male or female but I noticed one day that it was because I was looking for starers it made people stare at me. Also there are some old genes telling people to look at the worried person because it's a survival instinct. Worried people are aware of danger and that draws attention to them because people are trying to figure out what's wrong. The only option is to be all in on what you're doing because if you have any doubts then that will draw more attention to you than wearing a magenta ball gown into town.

The best times that I've had CDing have been times when I've decided not to worry. Actively doing something is better than sitting there wishing that you could a life time is incredibly limited if you don't spend it living. Even if someone has figured it out within two weeks 99% of the people who did will forget it within two weeks.

[Karen 812]

I crossdress because i enjoy being percieved as a woman. As long as I dont get assultd or hasseled, I am fine with the questioning looks I sometimes get. When my so and I go out, she walks behind me and tells me about the looks and comments she notices. I have been asked about crossdressing only a few times from a sales person.

[Karren H]

Funny but this check out girl at the convenience store I've gone to almost every work day for the last 10 years says the exact same thing to every customer... Again and again.. I could be trying to buy a WMD or a coffee and its "thank you and have a great day". Lol. Personally I assume that no one thinks like I do.... My wife reinforces that notion every day... But I really don't care what other people are thinking...

[missyapril]

I think its mostly just in your own mind when your out and worrying that others notice things. It's like when i recently bought a new car, a mini. Before i got mine, i never noticed them ever on the road, now i see them every day. Its not that everyone bought a mini, its just know im more aware of them being out there.
On the cashier thing, I have worked retail my whole life and I can tell you that as a cashier I never looked at anything a customer was buying, just scan, bag, total. A cashier will see 20-100 people a day, no time to worry about what anyone is buying.

[Jonianne]

You have a very good point Gillian and I think you are right.

One thing I have really noticed is when I am wearing (in guy mode) something that is very female, I will get lots of looks. I wear leggings under my cargo shorts in the cold weather and so often I see peoples eyes go down to my legs and feet. So I know they notice something.

When I dress fully as female, I don't hardly see anyone give a second look, and I know I am not "passable". If you fit most of the criteria as a particular gender, most peoples minds don't give it a second thought. If, however, something just doesn't seem to fit their gender stereotype, many more take notice.

[dsmth]

This past summer I felt like painting my nails with a clear polish for the first time. And after the weekend was over I didn't want to remove it for work. I had similar thoughts to this thread which was that people probably would not notice. And nobody did notice. Not even my SO noticed for a a month or two... Although she was aware of my CDing so when she did notice it wasn't a problem. She thought I'd just put the polish on that day but I let her know that I'd had it on for weeks!

[Kristy_K]

Lets face it, we can be our own worst enemies.

[dsmth]

I guess I should respond to the thread theme a bit better.... I think that *IF* anyone was to "know" that I was a CDer.... then my most paranoid self would think that they would know that by my changes.... I've dressed nicer, increased my wardrobe in men's clothes in different and adventurous ways, shaved everyday (as opposed to weekly), and lost significant amounts of weight!

[DanaR]

I agree with Karren on this, I don't care what others think. It took me a long time to realize that others didn't think like I do. After you start watching what others do, you will start realizing this.

[cassandra54]

you are so right. my legs and arms are shaved and no-one notices. i buy bras and panties all the time and no-one notices. i buy make-up and no-one notices. my SO asked me once if we were out together and I saw someone I knew, like from work. THEY WOULD NOT MAKE THE CONNECTION!!! all they would see is a lady. maybe, just maybe they might think i was a cross dress, tg or something. but would they recognize me? no, because they would not be thinking that i might be enfemm.

granted, maybe i am not the most passable in the world, but i wore this outfit to wal mart. a man behind me said, "are you in line maam?" that was enough for me to never worry about it again.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6043/6271959045_1af5129f05.jpg

[Leilani]

I do not believe it is a case of me assuming that they are as aware as I am of things so much as I think it is a case of we, as humans, not wanting to be judged or looked down upon. From a basic biological standpoint we are designed to want to blend in with the herd. After all the zebra that stands out, gets eaten. Part of what worries us (yes I am generalizing) is that we will get noticed and laughed at or denigrated in some fashion. Not only can this hurt our pride but also can put us in a potentially uncomfortable situation (perhaps a long walk back to the car with people haranging you all the way). Now is this going to happen? It would be very unlikely since the reality is most people pretend to ignore that which is different or uncomfortable to be around (kind of like the "I can't watch" situation of the bombing stand up comedian). However as conscious people we can make the choice to tell ourselves that their opinions don't matter and we have every right to be wherever we are just as do others. Right or wrong, I do believe that most people probably notice and are aware when they come in contact with us but they choose to be polite and then laugh at/about us when we leave. I freely admit I could be way off on this and perhaps it is my own lack of confidence that makes me feel this way. I also tend to be pretty cynical about people as a whole in the first place having met a large number that seem to care only for themselves so I am probably biased. Ultimately, I see it much as I believe it went for women when they first started wearing pants in that people may have thoguht poorly of them but would rarely have turned down their money when making purchases or done anything harmful to them other than tsk tsking as they walked by them on the street

[Sara Jessica]

Lets face it, we can be our own worst enemies.

Isn't this the truth?

I think part of the premise here is that we tend to project our own realities onto everyone else. We ARE our own worst enemies when thinking that blurring of one gender-ID trait (ie - shaved legs) would be perceived by the Muggles as "a-ha, told yer that he is one of them there CD'ers".


...most people don't notice or care (or both).

I can take this as being related to guy-mode presentation with one or more minor body modifications involved. And this is true, most will not really notice (or care) and if they do, they are not likely to say anything because either they're polite or more likely, because they have not made that fateful connection towards anything related CD/TG.

But I'm also a believe in "The Elephant in the Room" theory, that the more of these body modifications we put together, the more likely people are to come to a CD/TG conclusion. This is especially true given how there is more mainstream exposure for our community than ever, whether IRL or in the media.

However, my own test of this theory given the enormous amount of food I have fed my elephant, no one has called me out...yet. Still, this doesn't go to disprove my theory. Rather, it just shows that most people think they're being polite by staying silent...or worse, there is a firestorm happening behind my back that I'm oblivious to. If this is the case, I'd almost rather have it be made known to me so that the subject can be taken on and then everyone can simply move forward.


...I do believe that most people probably notice and are aware when they come in contact with us but they choose to be polite and then laugh at/about us when we leave.

And I take this similar comment as being related to presenting as female and I fully agree, people notice most of us and given how we are supposed to be a civilized bunch, most will not say anything to our faces or laugh in front of us. But what happens in our wake, once we walk on by? All bets are off and I'm sure there is plenty of reaction ranging from giggles to WTF.


Try this. Think about the last time you stood in line for something. What did the person in front of you look like? How long was their hair? Most likely unless they were doing something odd you won't remember. Now the person behind you? Man? Woman? Mustache? Now even try and remember the clerk. You remember their gender maybe, what color were their eyes? What top did they have on under the blue smock? Wedding band?

Fascinating way to put this Lorileah. I think it goes a long way towards explaining how strangers are generally disinterested in what is going on around them to the point where a guy presenting with smooth legs isn't likely to be even noticed. However, when the person in line is presenting as female, then I think this meets the definition as "doing something odd" (as in, atypical) and is more likely to be noticed, even when nothing is said.

[suchacutie]

About a month ago I was performing in a symphony orchestra and we happened to be playing a piano concerto. As fate would have it, in the concert the soloist, at a critical moment at the end of a phrase, changed his interpretation just at a time when the orchestration was a little thin, the conductor had to jump a measure, and suddenly we were all in limbo not having a clue what measure was being played. For 10 measures we all "composed" until we came out of that phrase and realized where we were from the music.

No one in the audience noticed! Everyone just adored the performance and when I querried a few people I knew in the audience (very knowledgeable musicians) they had no clue that the orchestra and the soloist had ever separated. They should have noticed, but they didn't. They never even thought that the issue would arise, so in their minds it didn't!

So, how is anyone to notice if I'm wearing matte finish nail polish or brown mascara, or if I moisturize, or if remove my ear hair! This always comes back to staying in within everyone else's comfort zone. Unless you give people a reason to stop and look at you carefully, you will just blend into the background. If we go to the mall in a red leather micromini with 8" heels, fishnets, over-the-top makeup, and a load of bangles, you can be sure that we'll be looked at, obviously.

On the other hand, I was behind a woman in line at Starbucks one morning and it was a long line that took about 5 min to get me to the counter. I happened to be thinking about this topic of how people really look so I started looking at the woman in front of me critically: clothes were "normal", heels were modest, nails painted, hands rather large, a bit tallish, a bit broad shouldered, a hint of an adam's apple...... Ok, I had to turn away as I started to chuckle to myself! She approached the counter and ordered her latte. You guessed it! Voice was a bit lowish but the language was feminine (really good, actually!). Then we both went to wait for our drinks and we started a conversation. She had been to a seminar the day before and needed directions to the interstate. It was a 10-minute meeting in life's stream, but as I looked around no one noticed what I had noticed.

That was the second such encouter I'd had in 4 months, and it convinced me that with just a few skills we can blend in most of the time. We all keep saying that it "just" takes confidence, but that confidence is born from knowledge. The more we know, the more confident we are and the more we learn. A lovely cycle!

One last thought. If you are out en femme, and you feel yourself being watched, think of this: My wife and I were in a grocery store a while back with me in drab. I had worked outside that day so had just showered, shaved, etc. and was in a bit of a Tina feeling so even though I was in drab I felt great and was dressed rather well. I'm no fashion plate in drab, but I don't scare children either! My wife was a bit away from me for a while as we searched through the fresh foods, and suddenly she came up beside me and hooked my arm in a way that clearly said, "he's mine". I turned to her with a questioning look and she said, "you don't have to be Tina to get looked over!" It seems that a few women were giving me the once over. So, being looked over might have absolutely nothing to do with being "read"! Just smile and assume the best! Confidence is the watchword!

tina

[Gillian Gigs]

After reading many posts, I am wondering how much the fear of man, and peer pressure plays into issues in life, and we deny that they do. I think that we all long to be praised, and we dread exposure so we bury ourselves deep in the midst of the herd. Problem is that it is the herd that will devour us, not whatever is on the fringe. In school we looked for and associated with others of similar interests, and that was our herd, but where is the CD'ers herd, other than the odd social group, or web site. We like to see the "stand outs", those that go against the flow, we call them rebels, yet we run and hide if others think that we are associating with them. As we get older peer pressure is not as strong an influence anymore, and that is probably a good thing. So what is on our fear list? Is it exposure and our picture in a dress on the front page of the paper? I can not fear the one in a million long shot, so as someone says, you reduce the odds of getting caught and play the precentages. As a man, I see the pretty girl, and look at the clothes, other men wonder what she would be like in bed. Most of us are older and most men are looking at the young "pretty things" and not the "dowager" that we should be portraying. All of my life I wanted to go against the flow, but fear and peer pressure has held me back. Now as an older individual I don't care anymore and life has finally got interesting. Didn't someone say that, "the only thing to fear, is fear itself".

[GBJoker]

Hmm... Well, to the cheating poker player, it's been proven that if some one is doing something "bad" or "wrong," they tend to think others do it as well. The classic example being the cheater who finds the other cheater by... cheating. You follow?

As for the other aspects of your post, OP... I mean, really, any one who has been a cashier knows this. You got anywhere from 200 to 1000+ customers a day, depending on what type of store you work at; you aren't gonna remember or notice a damn thing after only a week. As for people who aren't cashiers, yeah, it's pretty common for some reason, how... Unaware people are of their surrondings.