The wife is getting nervous

[DeniseNJ]

As our trip to Vegas draws very close , the wife is having second thoughts about me going for my transformation. She is affraid that this experience will change me forever. Affraid that I might cross the line. I admitted to her tonight that I was coming back to the hotel as Denise and was gonna change back there. I am very excited to do this but somehow I feel she has a valid point. I went out and got a fresh pedicure tonight. I bought some thi highs and my first hand bag. I am taking this night on the town as a girl very seriously. She said I looked awful as a girl , I then printed a pic of me from a month ago and asked her to look at it, I said if you can truthfully say I look awful as I girl ,I won't do it. She barely looked at the picture and said , I don't wanna see it. Yes she was drinking tonight so her emotions were out totally. She said to me,how would you like it if I grew a penis?? I didn't know how to answer that but assured her that I wasn't getting SRS any time soon. I am not totally out of the closet quite the contrare. She does want me to be happy but she doesn't want to know anything about Denise. I am sorry girls but we all have our vices. She does things that I don't approve but I do not control her. I have be shaving my legs every time I get in the shower and many other places and she isn't getting mad about that. She knows that this is my dream to get a professional make-over. My excitement will be very high this Friday night. I just hope Denise stays in control and doesn't do anything stupid..

[Marleena]

I don't think it's fair for her to pull the rug out on you this close to the trip. Sleep on it and hope she feels different in the morning. They can go hot & cold on us.

[CINDYO]

well maybe you could somehow keep "Denise" in control, f or the sake of your wife, since she is going against her inner feelings and letting you do this. I mean she is your wife, think about how you would feel if the role was reversed, that otta help.

[Stephenie S]

IMHO? You guys need to talk some more. Maybe sharing Denise with her is just not the right thing to do right now. Why not come back to the hotel room as her husband and make mad passionate love to her. That might quell some of her fears.

You do understand what she is afraid of, don't you? She's afraid she is gonna loose you. To what she is not quite sure. But that's it in a nutshell. She is terrified that you are somehow going to change who you are. I suspect that you think you aren't going to change at all. But dear, she doesn't know that at all. It's up to you to show her you are still the same guy she married.

Listen. She doesn't have to participate in this. Don't force her. If you come back to the hotel as "Denise" I predict trouble.

I think you should get the makeover. Take some pictures. Walk around a bit. Do a little gambling, maybe. Have some fun. And then change back into the man she married. Take her out, wine and dine her, and then jump her bones back at the hotel. She will love you for it, honest.

Auntie Stephenie

[PretzelGirl]

I would like to add, that if she was drinking, that you should have tried putting off the serious talk until she was sober. You made an offer that she could have turned around on you in spite (I don't know if she would). You will probably benefit greatly from talking with her but when it is right for a good talk.

[DeniseNJ]

All good points, my wife is going thru medapause(spelled wrong) mood swings,hot flashed, irritable. I told her that we had been together for 25 years , if I was gonna do something, I would have all ready done it. I will admit , the feeling and pleasure of becoming Denise is stronger than ever. And NO she won't be in the room when I come back. I don't wanna waste a service and go change back into Dennis right after photo's . I want a hour or so on the town experiencing life as a female or atleast feel like a pretty girl..

[DanaR]

With all of the stuff that is going on in your wife's world, adding the crossdressing is probably taking her over the top. If you are pushing it on her, she might be able to deal with it very well.

[Marleena]

Denise, did the the mention of SRS come up before she asked if you would like her with a penis? It seems like something put her off. I still say sleep on it though, and talk it through tomorrow.

[Rica_6869]

IMHO? You guys need to talk some more. Maybe sharing Denise with her is just not the right thing to do right now. Why not come back to the hotel room as her husband and make mad passionate love to her. That might quell some of her fears.

You do understand what she is afraid of, don't you? She's afraid she is gonna loose you. To what she is not quite sure. But that's it in a nutshell. She is terrified that you are somehow going to change who you are. I suspect that you think you aren't going to change at all. But dear, she doesn't know that at all. It's up to you to show her you are still the same guy she married.

Listen. She doesn't have to participate in this. Don't force her. If you come back to the hotel as "Denise" I predict trouble.

I think you should get the makeover. Take some pictures. Walk around a bit. Do a little gambling, maybe. Have some fun. And then change back into the man she married. Take her out, wine and dine her, and then jump her bones back at the hotel. She will love you for it, honest.

Auntie Stephenie

From experience, I second every word of what Stephanie says.

[MaidJamie]

Hi Denise

Despite your excitement about your transformation you must carefully consider your wife's feelings... Menopausal or not. Have fun but don't go overboard and spoil the relationship.

Sorry to be a wet blanket...
Jamie

[Tara D. Rose]

Denise, my wife has been going through menopause too for the last 3 years. She does drink all the time, she screams and hollers and plows over me all the time. I try to be reasonable with her. But with this kind of woman, it is impossble to reason with. Rationalism is thrown right out the window. I know you mean well, and I know you tell her the truth, but she just wants to ruin the few days you have planned. Your story carbon copy's mine. I'm calling an attorney tomorrow and get this thing done. I am in my third marriage of just short of three years. I was married to the first one for 4 years, then the second one for 16 years and now this one of 2 and a half years. So all in all I have lived married life for 22.5 years. They are all the same, it's just like Bon Jovi's song, only the names change.
I bet that in your wife's drunkin stupors, she screams and hollers at the top of her lungs at you about every two days, accusing you of so many things far beyond your real intentions. She believes nothing you say, by way of your crossdressing. She capitalises on the steriotypical stigmatisms accociated with the usual hum drums of crossdressing. I know how you feel. I can tell you, that the two of you may reach an agreement today or tomorrow, and then you will roll with that, then she will flip on you, when you move forward per your agreement, and then another huge argument will insue. For married cd's with a menopausal wife that drinks liquor most nights, afraid of growing old, will use anything against you to keep hell in the marriage, and will threaten you with your cd'ing, or to out you to your family, etc. As I have realised in my own marriage, and hundreds of stories just like yours,the only happiness or even a "little contentment" is to divorce her, as I plan to do with mine. Remember, only the names change.
We even have on here wives that divorced their(in their words), no good crossdressing husbands and have moved on with their lives, but yet they are on here, still B*****ing about the cd husband that they got rid of a few years ago. This puzzles me to no end. Well not really. A man cannot deal with or combat flip flop menopausal, liquor induced in predicticalities.
The two of you have been married for 25 years, she should know you by now and should know your every thought with just a look in your eyes.
I wish you the best of luck, for you will need it. I will end with an equation, wife + menopause + marriage + liquor + crossdressing = DIVORCE. Now this does not apply to wives not married to cd's, not in menopause, no liquor. Like I said in a post a month ago, there is just one common denominator where a wife is 100% totally accepting. I see all the time. But really, I don't want to offend anyone.
I hope the best for you.
L&R..................Tara

[ReineD]

She is affraid that this experience will change me forever. Affraid that I might cross the line. I admitted to her tonight that I was coming back to the hotel as Denise and was gonna change back there. I am very excited to do this but somehow I feel she has a valid point.


I said if you can truthfully say I look awful as I girl ,I won't do it [...] I didn't know how to answer that but assured her that I wasn't getting SRS any time soon.

... if I was gonna do something, I would have all ready done it. I will admit , the feeling and pleasure of becoming Denise is stronger than ever.

I know this is exciting for you and I'm glad you'll have a chance to express yourself. But you need to reassure your wife better than you've done already. Yes, she is afraid she is losing her husband. She is afraid that you've found something so exciting, that your old life including her, your wife, will seem bland and boring to you in comparison. She is afraid that you will hate being in guy mode.

Looking at your points above one by one, I can suggest ways that you can be more clear with your wife and hopefully it will help (if what I say doesn't fit then please disregard it):

You said: "I am very excited to do this but somehow I feel she has a valid point." If you tell your wife she has a point, she will hear that you don't know if you'll want to continue living as a guy after you've experienced the makeover and going out in a exciting place like Vegas. Please, if you know in your heart that once you get home you'll want to continue your life as it was (with maybe more dressing), but still as her husband, she needs to hear this from you.

You said: "If you can truthfully say I look awful as I girl ,I won't do it." This is not what she wants to hear. It makes it sound as if you discover that you look great as a girl after your makeover, you won't want to revert to guy mode, or you will increasingly want to dress and go out (to maybe almost full time). You need to tell her that you DO need to experience the makeover and outing, you DO need to express yourself and yes, it IS exciting for you and you want to do this, but you still know that you are a man and it doesn't mean that you will want to become a woman.

You said: "but I assured her that I wasn't getting SRS any time soon." I know what you mean, but if you take this sentence literally, it implies you won't want SRS "any time soon", but maybe you will after a while, especially if you think you look good as a girl. Again, you need to point out that you do want to stay married to her as her husband and the dressing is something that you just would like to do occasionally.

You said: "if I was gonna do something, I would have all ready done it." This is not a definitive statement. It is not as strong and as convincing as saying, "I haven't had SRS because I don't want to, and I cannot see myself ever wanting SRS. I am not a woman."

OK ... I'm making the above suggestions on the premise that you are not transsexual and that you fully intend on remaining your wife's husband because this is how YOU see yourself. If this is true, you do need to be very clear with your wife. It's OK to admit to being excited about the makeovers and the outings, since it is important for you to express yourself, but you do need to tell your wife in no uncertain terms that you still want to be her husband and this will not change. (If this is how you feel).

... But, if you're not sure, then I don't blame your wife for being afraid.

[LeeAnnRose]

Reine,
Those are some strong statements and areas of absolute statements I completely missed. I just realized a number of vague statements I was leaving on the table myself.
Thanks!

[kimdl93]

I understand the excitement you're feeling about the Vegas trip and the transformation service. Since its clear that its bothering your wife, please try to invest a considerable amount of time in reassuring your wife that you remain, and will remain, her husband.

[DeniseNJ]

I understand the excitement you're feeling about the Vegas trip and the transformation service. Since its clear that its bothering your wife, please try to invest a considerable amount of time in reassuring your wife that you remain, and will remain, her husband.


I feel like I just had a session with a SHRINK, OK girls what's the charge... I want to add people's lives are more complex and are not cut and dry . I will say that TARA-May kinda nailed it on the head. My wife sometimes just pick fights over anything just to hear herself YELL. Drinking makes it worse and my wife doesn't know when to say when. Yes you have to throw reasoning out the window with my wife. This may sound cruel BUT my wife need me more than I need her. I take a large burden from her in life, sorta like a crutch always there for support.

ReineD: Are you sure your not a Lawyer ? You can break down ones words to find the truth or what appears to be the truth. I am not saying your wrong, I see a very smart person here who cares... Thanks

When my wife first met me, in 86, she was the one who suggested I dress as a girl for halloween that year. Little did she know that I so enjoied being a girl that night. She knows that I dress from time to time but we don't talk about it. I did assure her that her husband will be back and that on Saturday when we leave for the Hollywood tour, she would never tell that I was Denise yesterday. She said
( This is gonna cost you ) and wants $ from me for doing this transformation. Does anyone know what it is like to go thru life always being the responsible one , to keep things together, to endure the shame of what my wife can put me thru when she gets looped in public. and the next day when she is sober act as if nothing ever happened, it's tuff. Right now you all say Divorse seems your only option . Some people just deal with situtations until they become unbearable. Will my wife file for divorce, I doubt it. Will I, not realy for I still can take the abuse . Some might say I am the abuser with my crossdressing, your opinion I will update the adventure, some will agree, some will not. Later Denise

[kimdl93]

wow, Denise, It seems based on this last post, that your dressing is the least of the issues between you and your wife. Seriously, you two need to get into a competent professional counselor.

[Barbara Ella]

Denise, please take it slow. I have to agree there is more going on here than just cross dressing, and both of you are building up resentment inside that is not good for either. You seem resentful over being forced to be the responsible one. She has a drinking and emotional problem. Please dont let any unspoken resentment over your dressing escalate the situation. Talk it through when she is sober. It just doesn't sound like you have really talked and expressed the true inner feelings, but I cannot really tell. Please consider professional help.

Babes

[Marleena]

Denise you are in an abusive relationship (that's obvious now). I wish you luck because CDing is just another excuse for her to dump on you. I wish you luck with the advice you're getting here. She won't allow you to be happy because she's miserable and drinking makes it worse.

[DanaR]

wow, Denise, It seems based on this last post, that your dressing is the least of the issues between you and your wife. Seriously, you two need to get into a competent professional counselor.

I have to agree with this. It sounds like there isn't a lot of compromise going on here. There should be some give and take, if one person is doing all of the giving or taking, there will be problems.

[DeniseNJ]

Denise, please take it slow. I have to agree there is more going on here than just cross dressing, and both of you are building up resentment inside that is not good for either. You seem resentful over being forced to be the responsible one. She has a drinking and emotional problem. Please dont let any unspoken resentment over your dressing escalate the situation. Talk it through when she is sober. It just doesn't sound like you have really talked and expressed the true inner feelings, but I cannot really tell. Please consider professional help.

Babes

That is the problem sobor or not she doesn't want to talk about things, and believe me, crossdressing is not the only issue that needs to be addressed. She knows I read the book my husband Betty, she said that she would read it but has not yet. I truely wish that I can communicate with her but I can not. We do have some fun times together but as the years go by the fun times have lessened. It is TRUE, I do resent her drinking and lack of responsibility. I figure ,I deal with a lot why can't she. AND No is am not a TS or plan on having SRS , I am not brave like some in here or willing to distrubt my socalled normal way of life. We all have our crosses to bare , some are heavier than others!

[Lorileah]

My wife sometimes just pick fights over anything just to hear herself YELL. Drinking makes it worse and my wife doesn't know when to say when.
I thought your OP gave most the reason you and she were fighting, but now I see plenty more. If this was a hockey game you would be in the box for unsportsmanlike conduct. She doesn't pick fights just to hear herself yell. She could yell for many other reasons. She doesn't "pick fights", she airs complaints and worries. The more I think the more the penalty box sounds good. You have placed this whole relationship in danger. (I refer to you because she didn't ask and she isn't here reading as far as I know). Back off. Unless you really like fighting with her. You keep throwing fuel on this fire. "Why?" you ask, because you put the blame straight on her. So far it has not been any of your fault. You have been an angel from what you think you have related to us. Be we are not close to either of you. I was going to refer to the OP quotes but others have already done that.

To take the easy out of menopause is low. So many times men blame everything on hormonal fluctuation. But stop a minute. This is a time when she needs your help and understanding if what you say is true. Instead you take the low road and blame honest feelings on alcohol and hormones.

Yes you have to throw reasoning out the window with my wife. This may sound cruel BUT my wife need me more than I need her. I take a large burden from her in life, sorta like a crutch always there for support.

Yet you tell us she need YOU more than you need her (my answer to that would have been don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya...then see who need who). Your perspective is you bring everything to the relationship and she brings very little. Look around you from your charger sir knight. Your realm is in peril but not from an outside enemy. You have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Maybe you should move on if you don't like the set up. I would venture that she will be on her feet long before you even get to your knees. (Yes I am just as cruel as you are but if you dish it, you need to take it).




When my wife first met me, in 86, she was the one who suggested I dress as a girl for halloween that year. Little did she know that I so enjoied being a girl that night. She knows that I dress from time to time but we don't talk about it. I did assure her that her husband will be back and that on Saturday when we leave for the Hollywood tour, she would never tell that I was Denise yesterday. So her memory is gone too? You don't think she will still see traces? Guess again.
She said ( This is gonna cost you ) and wants $ from me for doing this transformation.

You don't have a marriage then you have a business relationship


Does anyone know what it is like to go thru life always being the responsible one , to keep things together, to endure the shame of what my wife can put me thru when she gets looped in public. and the next day when she is sober act as if nothing ever happened, it's tuff.

We all have our bears to cross. If she is blanking out then one of you needs to start something like AA (yes even if you are not an alcoholic you are enabling her.
Right now you all say Divorse seems your only option . Some people just deal with situtations until they become unbearable.

So you are willing to risk your life and sanity because you have been told you should be the strong one. See enabling above. If divorce is the only option then it needs to be considered. However, if you both want to work on your relationship then as many have suggested, you should seek some sort of help. This isn't about the dressing. It may be a small part but you are both using it as a wedge. There are deeper issues here. And you BOTH have them. You can't put the blame 100%. This is a 50/50 split.

I won't say don't get the make over. If you do, don't flaunt it. (Actually I would say let her be involved because from what I see she may have a concern that she isn't there to see what happens). Get the makeover, get photos. Don't throw them at her but maybe in a few weeks she will ask to see them. Truthfully, I would forget the makeover just because you both are not on the same page, but that is me.

And as for the suggestion of coming back and making love to her like a man? WTH does that mean??
Why not come back to the hotel room as her husband and make mad passionate love to her. That might quell some of her fears. Man's answer to everything. When will you all get the point that it isn't the sex the GG's are worried about?

Unless you can get this train on the siding, this will be the biggest train wreck since Casey Jones.

Kimdl has your answer.

[suchacutie]

Denise, menopause is a hormonal issue and can be a nightmare for all involved. Is your wife not under the care of a physician? If she has not explained her mood swings and drinking problems to a trusted physician it's past time that she does this. Hormonal balance can be worked on! Please get the medical help for her that she needs, both for her, and for you!

tina

[ReineD]

Does anyone know what it is like to go thru life always being the responsible one , to keep things together, to endure the shame of what my wife can put me thru when she gets looped in public. and the next day when she is sober act as if nothing ever happened, it's tuff.

Neither you nor your wife can deal with any CDing or relationship issues effectively as long as she is drinking. This is the biggest truth in this thread. Alcoholism clouds issues more than people ever realize. Please believe me when I say that I know this from personal experience. I could write a book on it, but for now I'll only suggest you keep a low profile with the CDing in the immediate future (do your Vegas thing, and then do your best to keep it out of your wife's face), and please, please, PLEASE go to Al-Anon.

Al-Anon will teach you how to separate the alcohol issues from the other issues and will teach you to keep the responsibility of your wife's drinking squarely on your wife's shoulders where it belongs, and not your own. (I'm assuming that she is the only person who drinks. If you do as well, then you both need to go to AA).

As to your wife's level of unhappiness when she drinks, I agree with Lorileah. Her feelings are valid, whether she drinks or not. Her reactions while drunk may be exaggerated, and if she does manage to resolve some or part of the issues in between drinking bouts this will soon be forgotten, but if she is unhappy about certain things it is because they continue to not be fully resolved for her. And they will not be resolved as long as she is drinking.

I mean it, and I cannot emphasize enough that RIGHT NOW what you need to do is to distance yourself from your wife's drinking, stop taking responsibility for it, stop enabling her, and help her to reach her own bottom with it so that you can both then move on to resolve the other issues in your relationship, including coming to a similar understanding of what the CDing means in your marriage, and this will require an amount of negotiating and boundary setting that is healthy in any marriage.

GO TO AL-ANON!

Didn't mean to shout, but please do it.

[angpai30]

Her feelings are valid and from many reliable sources have you received advice. I would take that advice and run with it. Many of us who are giving you advice have been in the same boast you are now. Coming home as Denise will affect your relationship no matter wether she is there or not when you come home. I learned somewhat the hard way and I'm now divorced. There are things I wish I could take back, but cant. If you want your marriage to last listen to your wife and focus on getting her sober as well.

[SweetPea_GG]

I have to agree with a bunch of others here as well as I really agree with what Lorileah has replied with above too. There is always 2 sides to each story as well as each person in the marriage has their faults and all the blame cant just be placed on the other spouse which it just seems like your posts have done. If my husband had wrote what you have here in a post and I read it I would be extremely hurt. Not saying she was going to be reading it but the internet is a funny thing and can leave trails no matter how good you are at covering them up.. I am sure my husband thought he covered his pretty good until I discovered them lol

Anyways I would nervous too if I was your wife..I will admit if my husband went out and would do what you are going to be doing I would so so nervous and scared and hurt that he is doing it no matter what that I would end up making myself emotionally sick from it all and just playing everything over in my head. I would like to think that above all else he would think of me and put me first, I am suppose to be important to him. We BOTH NEED one another. Its not a matter of WHO needs WHO the MOST. If you really feel you dont need her as much as she needs you thats a shame..and I am not sure why you stay around.. cause its not helping any situation with a outlook like that and will not improve any marriage.. and I think kinda its a selfish statement to make..

Anyways the best of luck to you and I do hope that you really read everyone's replies here and not just skim through them but actually take them to heart.

[Kelly DeWinter]

As our trip to Vegas draws very close , the wife is having second thoughts about me going for my transformation. She is affraid that this experience will change me forever. Affraid that I might cross the line. I admitted to her tonight that I was coming back to the hotel as Denise and was gonna change back there. I am very excited to do this but somehow I feel she has a valid point. I went out and got a fresh pedicure tonight. I bought some thi highs and my first hand bag. I am taking this night on the town as a girl very seriously. She said I looked awful as a girl , I then printed a pic of me from a month ago and asked her to look at it, I said if you can truthfully say I look awful as I girl ,I won't do it. She barely looked at the picture and said , I don't wanna see it. Yes she was drinking tonight so her emotions were out totally. She said to me,how would you like it if I grew a penis?? I didn't know how to answer that but assured her that I wasn't getting SRS any time soon. I am not totally out of the closet quite the contrare. She does want me to be happy but she doesn't want to know anything about Denise. I am sorry girls but we all have our vices. She does things that I don't approve but I do not control her. I have be shaving my legs every time I get in the shower and many other places and she isn't getting mad about that. She knows that this is my dream to get a professional make-over. My excitement will be very high this Friday night. I just hope Denise stays in control and doesn't do anything stupid..


All good points, my wife is going thru medapause(spelled wrong) mood swings,hot flashed, irritable. I told her that we had been together for 25 years , if I was gonna do something, I would have all ready done it. I will admit , the feeling and pleasure of becoming Denise is stronger than ever. And NO she won't be in the room when I come back. I don't wanna waste a service and go change back into Dennis right after photo's . I want a hour or so on the town experiencing life as a female or atleast feel like a pretty girl..


I feel like I just had a session with a SHRINK, OK girls what's the charge... I want to add people's lives are more complex and are not cut and dry . I will say that TARA-May kinda nailed it on the head. My wife sometimes just pick fights over anything just to hear herself YELL. Drinking makes it worse and my wife doesn't know when to say when. Yes you have to throw reasoning out the window with my wife. This may sound cruel BUT my wife need me more than I need her. I take a large burden from her in life, sorta like a crutch always there for support.

ReineD: Are you sure your not a Lawyer ? You can break down ones words to find the truth or what appears to be the truth. I am not saying your wrong, I see a very smart person here who cares... Thanks

When my wife first met me, in 86, she was the one who suggested I dress as a girl for halloween that year. Little did she know that I so enjoied being a girl that night. She knows that I dress from time to time but we don't talk about it. I did assure her that her husband will be back and that on Saturday when we leave for the Hollywood tour, she would never tell that I was Denise yesterday. She said
( This is gonna cost you ) and wants $ from me for doing this transformation. Does anyone know what it is like to go thru life always being the responsible one , to keep things together, to endure the shame of what my wife can put me thru when she gets looped in public. and the next day when she is sober act as if nothing ever happened, it's tuff. Right now you all say Divorse seems your only option . Some people just deal with situtations until they become unbearable. Will my wife file for divorce, I doubt it. Will I, not realy for I still can take the abuse . Some might say I am the abuser with my crossdressing, your opinion I will update the adventure, some will agree, some will not. Later Denise


That is the problem sobor or not she doesn't want to talk about things, and believe me, crossdressing is not the only issue that needs to be addressed. She knows I read the book my husband Betty, she said that she would read it but has not yet. I truely wish that I can communicate with her but I can not. We do have some fun times together but as the years go by the fun times have lessened. It is TRUE, I do resent her drinking and lack of responsibility. I figure ,I deal with a lot why can't she. AND No is am not a TS or plan on having SRS , I am not brave like some in here or willing to distrubt my socalled normal way of life. We all have our crosses to bare , some are heavier than others!



Denise, All I can say is wow, you have a spouse that is trying to communicate with you and you are so wrapped up in your trip ypu dont 'hear' what she is saying. You avoided the 'penis' question like a pro, yes she may she may drink, but you glibly say 'we all have our vices' and you are shamed when she gets 'loopy' can you imaging how she feels when YOU go out in public ? I've read your previous posts and it sounds like you wheedled the photo session and now somehow implied she is responsible for getting the whole thing started because of one holloween ?

If you want to save your marriage, I would reccomend some serious marriage counseling. When you say your spouse needs you more then you need her, thats just crule. Sometimes in marrige we DO have to put up with things. Its thinking like this that make me understand why familys fall apart. The way you talk about Denise, Denise,Denise it makes one wonder who you are married to ? You are at the abyss, I just don't think you know how close. The mere thought that your spouse says she did not want to seen Denise, and you practicly force your spouse from your room, by insisting in changing back at your room. I would not be surprised if your spouse is not at the bar drinking wonder if it's safe to go 'home'

[DeniseNJ]

I feel like I am in the WWF and I just got slammed to the canvas by Hulk Hogan. I will admit I am an emabler HELL I had to refinance my home and pay off her gambling debt from cash advances on credit cards and guess where I am going.. I don't know stats of the members in here but I would guess that 70% are hiding their crossdressing from their wives. Those
70 %, or more are all going throught similar battles in dealing with this sometime's uncontroled issue. Lorileah: I wish I could be more like you , more caring and understanding but I am NOT. If my wife left me , maybe that DOOR hitting me in the ass might be a blessing. You said that I am blaming her 100% and not accepting responsibility for my actioons (If you only knew how much pride I swallow). I exsist in this relationship that's about it. What would hurt more would be the financial loss to attorneys, along with other monentary losses, In closing I suggest that all crossdressers that are not totally accepted by their family and SO's need to stop and stop now!!! and go on with life surpressing all thoughts of Dressing. If that did happen, you would hear crickets in here when you opened a post, most would be gone.. What started out as a simple thread once again has ended in Denise BASHING!!! I still love you girls.

Some of you act like divorce is the best option . Is it that easy just to sign papers and go on with life with out distruptions. Divorce is painful mentally/ emontionally and physicially It turns one's workld UP side DOWN Did you ever think one might not be ready for such trama in life. My wife acted fine today except for some moodiness, I made her diner and kissed her goodnight. I know you are all just giving advise to lessen my pain but I am me sorry

[MissMarcie]

She is affraid that this experience will change me forever.
I kinda doubt that unless you're getting a transformation and an orchiectomy.

[DeniseNJ]

Denise, All I can say is wow, you have a spouse that is trying to communicate with you and you are so wrapped up in your trip ypu dont 'hear' what she is saying. You avoided the 'penis' question like a pro, yes she may she may drink, but you glibly say 'we all have our vices' and you are shamed when she gets 'loopy' can you imaging how she feels when YOU go out in public ? I've read your previous posts and it sounds like you wheedled the photo session and now somehow implied she is responsible for getting the whole thing started because of one holloween ?

If you want to save your marriage, I would reccomend some serious marriage counseling. When you say your spouse needs you more then you need her, thats just crule. Sometimes in marrige we DO have to put up with things. Its thinking like this that make me understand why familys fall apart. The way you talk about Denise, Denise,Denise it makes one wonder who you are married to ? You are at the abyss, I just don't think you know how close. The mere thought that your spouse says she did not want to seen Denise, and you practicly force your spouse from your room, by insisting in changing back at your room. I would not be surprised if your spouse is not at the bar drinking wonder if it's safe to go 'home'

I am sorry that some of you are not listening to everything that I am saying; No: my wife doesn't have to be embarassed by my crossdressing she isn't going to be with me. I don't do it infront of her family or friends. When I get back to the room to change to drab, I will call first to make sure she isn't there. My wife (DOESN'T DO COUNSELING) so that;s out. Cruel to say (she needs me more) I am not beating my chest here nor do I think I am perfect Yes I have flaws, one big flaw crossdressing MMMmmm Maybe I should be like Tiger addicted to SEX. Why when I speak the truth::: I am critisized. No, I do not have a deep love for my wife . I wish I was totally in love with my wife but here's the truth again I am NOT is it that unbelievable to say that. SHEZZZZZZZZZ You paint me to be a monster here , you have no clue what kind of person I am like . When you guys quote me , you never look at the GOOD, just the badn I make Jack the Ripper seem like a really nice person compared to your thoughts of me!!!

[Kelly DeWinter]

Denise,

My sincere appology for comming accross hard, I had hoped that you will take pause to understand that you are both acting like locomotives heading towards each other. Your threads read like two people needing some outside help, but are using alcohol and crossdressing to blunt family issues. I just ask that you consider the possibility. I for one believe that photo sessions are a great form of theraphy, but if my SO did not want to see pictures, then i would have to respect that.

[brandycd]

I dont think you are bad. My wife and I have broken up after 26 years and my dressing had nothing to do with it. She has become a different person. I was the one who wanted to keep the marriage together at all costs, and she didnt. She too is going through perimenopause...or perhaps menopause. She refuses counselling or medication or anything like that. She was shrieking at me over things like taking the trash out, doing the laundry wrong, leaving my socks in the bathroom. Not yelling. Shrieking. Turning purple, spit flying, screaming at the top of her lungs.

I honestly dont think your dressing has anything to do with anything in your marriage, honey. Im not sure you are going to get this worked out before your trip...even if you did, im not sure thats your long term goal here.

I do hope you take it easy...have fun...Im not going to lie...since I moved out my life has changed alot...some good, some not so good...im in limbo in alot of things and i miss my kid like crazy but its now MY life. Its not hers. Maybe it will help to keep that in mind...

Cheers

[DeniseNJ]

I dont think you are bad. My wife and I have broken up after 26 years and my dressing had nothing to do with it. She has become a different person. I was the one who wanted to keep the marriage together at all costs, and she didnt. She too is going through perimenopause...or perhaps menopause. She refuses counselling or medication or anything like that. She was shrieking at me over things like taking the trash out, doing the laundry wrong, leaving my socks in the bathroom. Not yelling. Shrieking. Turning purple, spit flying, screaming at the top of her lungs.

I honestly dont think your dressing has anything to do with anything in your marriage, honey. Im not sure you are going to get this worked out before your trip...even if you did, im not sure thats your long term goal here.

I do hope you take it easy...have fun...Im not going to lie...since I moved out my life has changed alot...some good, some not so good...im in limbo in alot of things and i miss my kid like crazy but its now MY life. Its not hers. Maybe it will help to keep that in mind...

Cheers




Thank you for understanding and the positive post I will pack my feminine stuff for the trip. If on the day of the transformation my wife acts out and says NO I forbid it. I will loose my $75 deposit to save the vacation and not go thru with it. I hope everything goes OK again thanks Brandy for giving me the benifit of the doubt! I am really a nice person except my mouth gets me in trouble for saying and typing what's on my mind!

[Momarie]

Wow,

To be married to (according to you) an alcoholic, menopausal, gambling addicted, gold digging, money hungry, irresponsible, shameful, shrieking, uncommunicative, abusive woman, who refuses to seek counseling and who dressed you as a girl in 1986.....

You poor thang.

[jennifer24]

Denise, if she is not taking your dressing good I would suggest you just take it slow and dont throw everything at her at one time, u have to take her feeling into consideration too.

[Tara D. Rose]

Well Denise, I hope you do not think I was one of the ones that criticized you. I sympathize with you. I feel you. I know exactly what you’re going through. I do know how hard divorce is. Two times I have gone down that road. I can tell you are a good person. I practically beg my wife for divorce about once a week, but she won’t budge. Oh I can do it the hard way I guess, but it will cost so much more than what we can accomplish if I can get her cooperation. But that’s not happening on her side.
Maybe you can just go to Vegas by yourself, and when you get back, she will probably raise hell. Let her raise hell, for she’s going to raise hell no matter what you do. Some of us talk about this being a support site, then you come here looking for support, but then you get the opposite of support. I’m sure that if you were to say to hell with it and not go to Vegas, and never dressed or became Denise again, do you think your menopausal wife would be good to you then?
I don’t think so. Mine was all for me becoming Tara for about 6 months, went with me to SCC 2010,had a great time the two of us, then flipped on me. I haven’t became Tara since my return from SCC the third week of September. I don’t mention cross dressing to her at all, but she still will find something to raise hell about. She gets into drunken stupors and gets the gun and aims it at me and say I will kill you, you SOB. I just back out of the room nice and slow. Then while I’m sleeping on the couch, I hear her talking to her ex husband on my cell phone. I feel that members here should read your story and comment how they feel, either agree with you or disagree with you, but to the one that says “you poor thing”, is just uncalled for. It’s not support nor understanding, but just to make a mockery of you. I’m not about that.

I close with this that I have said to my menopausal drunken, bi polar, suicidal wife many times. “Although if we split, we may not ever find happiness, but, it is best for us to divorce and separate and move on with our lives and separate forever and we can at least live with the “HOPE” of happiness than to continue living with each other with the certainty of misery”

L&R……………Tara

[ReineD]

Some of us talk about this being a support site, then you come here looking for support, but then you get the opposite of support. I’m sure that if you were to say to hell with it and not go to Vegas, and never dressed or became Denise again, do you think your menopausal wife would be good to you then?
I don’t think so.

This is very much a support site, filled with people who share their own experiences, strengths, and hope, based on what they know and have lived. Thank goodness this is not a place where people will uniformly say, "Ohh, poor you, you're so right, your wife is a b*tch, so you just go ahead, sweetie, and do whatever you want".

We have some wise people here who can read between the lines and who also have made successes of their own marriages. They know what it takes to make it work. And if their advice doesn't sit well with you then I'm sorry, but maybe you're doomed to have another divorce if you succeed on divorcing your current wife, which will make it four in total.

After a while, Tara, you'll need to ask yourself if all of your wives were responsible for your inability to sustain a relationship, or if perhaps it might be that you have personal issues you simply aren't dealing with (such as assigning blame on everyone else but yourself), that are causing you to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. If this is the case, you're hardly in a position to tell someone how they might save their marriage.


----------------------

To Denise, you've received a lot of good advice here, if you are interested in improving your marriage. If I read it right (I do have a lot of experience with alcoholism), you and your wife need to deal with the alcoholism first before you'll effectively be able to deal with anything else. Anyone in any 12-step program, Al-Anon or AA, will tell you this. Do not dismiss her feelings, just keep the CDing out of her face for now, deal with the alcoholism first, and then the two of you can systematically adress your other issues one by one.

If I read it wrong and there is no alcoholism to deal with, then you still need to stop dismissing your wife's feelings. If she has become unwilling to communicate with you (and again, as long as there is no alcohol clouding anyone's mind), then it is because she has given up. I've no idea what marital dynamics the two of you might have had all these years. You cannot possibly account for all of the events from both your perspective and hers in one short thread. But, this is what smart people do when they reach such an impasse: they seek marital counseling.

Good luck!

[Tara D. Rose]

ReineD, ReineD, I read between the lines. I didn't call anyone a B***h as you said I did. And the only poster that I did refer to, if you will just read between the lines or re read my post, is the poster that "called" the op "you poor thang". Is that supportive to you ReineD? And I have had two divorces, and am in my third marriage. I'm trying to help Denise, not call her a name like the aforementioned. So are you of the opinion that a member says "you poor thang" = support?
Love & respect.....................Tara

[SweetPea_GG]

Tara,

Reine was not saying u called anyone a B***h. She was stating this is a support site and just because members don't reply with glitter roses and kisses does not mean they arnt being supportive. And I am pretty sure when she said a lot of replies on here were giving advise and support she didn't mean every single ones. I think you need to not try and over read the responses.

[ReineD]

Tara, please read my first paragraph again. I didn't say you called anyone anything.

And then read both of your posts in this thread. I'm suggesting that you would ultimately do better for yourself if you pointed the finger of blame inwardly rather than out to your wife (or wives in general). Just ask yourself why your marriage is so unhappy. There's no need to answer here, since this isn't your thread. But, perhaps you could begin journaling about it.

[Jenniferathome]

I think most SO's react to the cross dressing act, but are likely more afraid of being left alone should you decide to transition. While you have told her that you do not want SRS, perhaps you need to have further, deeper discussions on the ""why" of cross dressing. On occasion, my wife will tell me that she is happy I went out, but is worried for me that I will have a bad experience. The truth is, very,very few cross dressers can pass completely. The best most of us can hope for is confusion from our audience. Maybe she is worried about your safety or ego? All you can do is talk, talk, talk

[Tina B.]

Devoice is easier than you think, and can improve your life, there are many of us here that are on the second or third marriage, and I know for me, it was a great improvement, but then so was being single. I just don't understand anyone staying in a really bad relationship, and yours sounds like one to me.
Tina B.

[Lorileah]

I feel like I am in the WWF and I just got slammed to the canvas by Hulk Hogan. I will admit I am an emabler HELL I had to refinance my home and pay off her gambling debt from cash advances on credit cards and guess where I am going..
You asked, you got opinions. Sorry if they were not the ones you wanted. Someone says we are not a support group but if we see a train wreck coming, we should try and warn the engineer. This has no good outcome. It is a losing situation. If you do the makeover, it will be a weapon in her arsenal forever. Even if you involve her it won't make it "OK" with her. If you don't do the makeover, you will be angry with her forever. No win. Can I add take her credit card away and change your PIN before you go. Just saying addictive personalities don't think rationally.

Lorileah: I wish I could be more like you , more caring and understanding but I am NOT. If my wife left me , maybe that DOOR hitting me in the ass might be a blessing. You said that I am blaming her 100% and not accepting responsibility for my actioons (If you only knew how much pride I swallow). I exsist in this relationship that's about it. What would hurt more would be the financial loss to attorneys, along with other monentary losses,
Money is more important than your own sanity and happiness? All the money in the world is not worth being unhappy with someone. It eats you up. It will shorten your life but it makes that short life feel like it is forever. You have to make a decision. The people here are distanced from your problem. We have a different perspective. We see two people who may love each other, but are unhappy even in that love. I see a person who has been willing to fight and work hard to keep what they have and is reaching the end of that rope. Yes divorce in painful, but are you not in pain right now? You seem to feel you don't have any control over your life. You have the opportunity to regain that control.


In closing I suggest that all crossdressers that are not totally accepted by their family and SO's need to stop and stop now!!! and go on with life surpressing all thoughts of Dressing. If that did happen, you would hear crickets in here when you opened a post, most would be gone.. What started out as a simple thread once again has ended in Denise BASHING!!! I still love you girls.

Sorry you see it as bashing. I think if you stop and read what others have written they are not bashing so much as trying to make you see that you are not doing yourself any favors. It is apparent that you have huge feelings for your wife. But it isn't going to do you any good if you end up debilitated. I have always said there are only two people who matter in one's life. Their spouse and themselves. But you have to prioritize. You have to be happy. You don't seem happy. And I don't think getting a makeover is going to change that. In fact I see anger and resentment afterwards and probably guilt. Your situation is rough. Standing over here I know what I would do. In your shoes...I don't know. Take what we offer, some of us have been there and done that. My Vegas story did not involve make overs. Unfortunately 6 months later it did alter my life forever. Hindsight is 20/20. I would not say this is all mental either. My wife's mood swings turned out to be medical. Even her doctors didn't pick up on it. So, I will give you the answer I always give people when they ask behavioral questions, get a good medical exam and bloodwork. Rule out the things you may be able to treat. Then if all that is normal it is time for professional help.

Sorry if you think we were mean. One last thought. Your world is already upside down, maybe turning it upside down again will get it back on axis

[DeniseNJ]

As our trip to Vegas draws very close , the wife is having second thoughts about me going for my transformation. She is affraid that this experience will change me forever. Affraid that I might cross the line. I admitted to her tonight that I was coming back to the hotel as Denise and was gonna change back there. I am very excited to do this but somehow I feel she has a valid point. I went out and got a fresh pedicure tonight. I bought some thi highs and my first hand bag. I am taking this night on the town as a girl very seriously. She said I looked awful as a girl , I then printed a pic of me from a month ago and asked her to look at it, I said if you can truthfully say I look awful as I girl ,I won't do it. She barely looked at the picture and said , I don't wanna see it. Yes she was drinking tonight so her emotions were out totally. She said to me,how would you like it if I grew a penis?? I didn't know how to answer that but assured her that I wasn't getting SRS any time soon. I am not totally out of the closet quite the contrare. She does want me to be happy but she doesn't want to know anything about Denise. I am sorry girls but we all have our vices. She does things that I don't approve but I do not control her. I have be shaving my legs every time I get in the shower and many other places and she isn't getting mad about that. She knows that this is my dream to get a professional make-over. My excitement will be very high this Friday night. I just hope Denise stays in control and doesn't do anything stupid..


I made a STATEMENT in my original post and no where in the post did I ask for opinions. I was just sharing, what to expect from a wife that is not supportive of their crossdressing spouse.
I expected good luck, be careful, enjoy yourself, you'll love Amy, keep us posted type of responses. Yes I do realize that I am not is a perfect relationship with my wife. The ones that are in a loving and perfect relationship I applaude you!! Yes I am my own worst ememy, BUT I want to make it clear,(I don't throw my dressing at my wife) I have pretty red toes and I don't even walk around my own home barefoot as not to upset my wife. Yes I get angry because she keeps telling me ( Stop Trying to Control Me) when I advise her , you had enough to drink, you lost too much money, lets leave before you loose all the $ back.. You make it sound like I cram it down her throat and say deal with it or leave me>> All I want is a little comprimize. I surely do!! I asked her when she was sober that I want to fulfill my dream and get a make over with Pictures she did say YES I even offered for her to come and watch. I don't hide my feminine things well They are in every part of the house but out of plain site, She could do a clean sweep and throw away all my stuff in 20 minutes but she has not. She knows that I crossdress here and there when she is not around and as long as I don't talk about it she is fine. Yes she has emontional issues again I am not perfect , I am a crossdresser, TS, TV or a weirdo, queer, faggot sissy , I have been called it all by my wife so No I am not perfect. Please answer this::: can you be a Crossdresser and be a Normal Person ??? To the unsupportive one NO!! I do realize some are trying to HELP. To be accepted is more important to me. I am no idiot and I do know what people really mean when they respond.

[Lorileah]

I made a STATEMENT in my original post and no where in the post did I ask for opinions. I was just sharing, what to expect from a wife that is not supportive of their crossdressing spouse.
I expected good luck, be careful, enjoy yourself, you'll love Amy, keep us posted type of responses.
Then I will take back everything I said. Good luck, have fun, I don't know Amy but I hope it works out. As I said we are looking from a different perspective than you have. Many of us have been in similar circumstances. I eluded to my own wife and by coincidence it happened to be Las Vegas. For the whole trip (and it had nothing to do with dressing) she was aggravated. Nothing was right, she was angry. I didn't know why then but 6 months later she was diagnosed with a brain tumor. I am sure some here would have said it was hormones or it was something I had done or not done. But hindsight is 20/20. All most are saying here is that you have to look at the situation from more angles. That was not a fun trip, in fact it was the worst vacation I ever had. Going somewhere with someone who has made the choice to not enjoy it will make your trip a living hell. But good luck, have fun, be careful. Remember it will be a memory. And what you had hoped would be a great memory is heading down a different path. And when you crash, who will be at fault? You control what you can.

BUT I want to make it clear,(I don't throw my dressing at my wife) I misunderstood the part where you said you were coming back to the room dressed when she didn't approve.

Please answer this::: can you be a Crossdresser and be a Normal Person ??? Yes, because normal is a state of mind. Normal is a point on a graph where everything is average and common. It is a small point but in the broad scheme of things, yes you can be "normal" and be a crossdresser. On the bell curve of life most of he people here are normal.

Good luck, have fun, be careful. I hope with all my heart you will update us and tell me everything worked out wonderful.

[Miranda-E]

She knows that I crossdress here and there when she is not around and as long as I don't talk about it she is fine. Yes she has emontional issues again I am not perfect , I am a crossdresser, TS, TV or a weirdo, queer, faggot sissy , I have been called it all by my wife so No I am not perfect. Please answer this::: can you be a Crossdresser and be a Normal Person ??? To the unsupportive one NO!! I do realize some are trying to HELP. To be accepted is more important to me. I am no idiot and I do know what people really mean when they respond.

No you can't live a normal life and deal with an unsupportive person day after day.

[suchacutie]

Denise, my heart goes out to you. I can't imagine how you can deal with all of the issues life is throwing at you and also attempt to deal with your own trangenderism. OMG, you must be constantly on overload. If for no other reason, it would be a mental-health day to get away from it all and just be Denise for a little while. May your day be terrific!

I must still urge you to have your wife seek medical attention. Much of what you have said about your situation could easily be a "simple" hormone imbalance or other very treatable situations. For your own peace of mind, I hope you can keep my suggestion in mind.

tina

[Dana7]

... please, please, PLEASE go to Al-Anon.

Al-Anon will teach you how to separate the alcohol issues from the other issues and will teach you to keep the responsibility of your wife's drinking squarely on your wife's shoulders where it belongs, and not your own. (I'm assuming that she is the only person who drinks. If you do as well, then you both need to go to AA).

As to your wife's level of unhappiness when she drinks, I agree with Lorileah. Her feelings are valid, whether she drinks or not. Her reactions while drunk may be exaggerated, and if she does manage to resolve some or part of the issues in between drinking bouts this will soon be forgotten, but if she is unhappy about certain things it is because they continue to not be fully resolved for her. And they will not be resolved as long as she is drinking.

I mean it, and I cannot emphasize enough that RIGHT NOW what you need to do is to distance yourself from your wife's drinking, stop taking responsibility for it, stop enabling her, and help her to reach her own bottom with it so that you can both then move on to resolve the other issues in your relationship, including coming to a similar understanding of what the CDing means in your marriage, and this will require an amount of negotiating and boundary setting that is healthy in any marriage.

GO TO AL-ANON!


As an adult child of an alcoholic, I cannot agree with Reine strongly enough. Your sanity and the success of your marriage depend on your ability to confront this behavior.

Relationships are complex, and addictive behaviors only make things more complicated. Get help. Counseling and Alanon are lifesavers. At least they were for me.

Do it.

[ReineD]

BUT I want to make it clear,(I don't throw my dressing at my wife) I have pretty red toes and I don't even walk around my own home barefoot as not to upset my wife.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I believe you are cramming it down her throat. I did say to keep it out of her face (for now), but I suggest this only because you have more important things to resolve in your marriage than the CDing. And few people can tackle all of the issues you both face, all at once.



Yes I get angry because she keeps telling me ( Stop Trying to Control Me) when I advise her , you had enough to drink, you lost too much money, lets leave before you loose all the $ back.. You make it sound like I cram it down her throat and say deal with it or leave me>> All I want is a little comprimize. I surely do!! I asked her when she was sober ...

You are getting feedback from a lot of different people who have different degrees of familiarity with the particular issues that you face in your marriage. Some people who respond in this thread might well have no idea what it is like to be an alcoholic, or to live with one, so they (understandably) gloss over the clues you mention.

Alcoholism is not something to "judge", it is not a character flaw, nor is it a question of not having enough will power. You are not a bad person and neither is your wife. It is a serious DISEASE, and it needs to be treated as such. It is also the only disease that tells the alcoholic or his or her family members that they don't have it. Those of us who have lived through it can tell you there is no point coming to an agreement with an alcoholic in between drinking bouts, because they just won't remember. As long as this particular issue is not addressed, you have zero to nil chance of making any progress in the other areas of your life.

So, please do not take the advice given here personally as if we are telling you that you are not worthy or that you are doing something wrong. It's just that some of us have walked in your shoes and we are trying to point you to a different solution than you have previously thought of.

You say you didn't specifically "ask" for advice, but ..... well, this is a discussion forum and when you post an issue that others feel they can help you with, it is hard to not say anything. I'm sure you would do the same in someone else's thread. Ultimately, you are the only person who can decide to take or leave the advice given here, and no one will think ill of you for the choices that you make.

So please, take a day's break from this thread and read it again tomorrow, hopefully with an open mind. The issues you speak of are far deeper than a matter of going to Vegas and getting a makeover. There will always be Vegas, there will always be makeovers.

:hugs:

[Stephenie S]

Well, since after all the crap you got here it's STILL someone else's fault, I say to heck with your wife. Go and have a good time.

S

[Kitsune]

Denise, dear heart, you and your wife are truly in an awful place and I sympathize. You're stuck.

There's a lot of excellent advice here from good, smart people who (I can tell) have personal experience of the issues. But I very much doubt if you can break the death grip you have on each other without professional help. I urge you to get into couples therapy as soon as possible. If your wife refuses to cooperate, go yourself and start getting some insight into yourself and learning techniques for solving your emotional conunundrums. Cross-dressing is not the problem here; it's much more complicated than that.

It may well be that your marriage can't be saved. So? Divorce is not the worst thing in the world. What possible justification can you have for staying in a marriage that has become a living hell?

[ReineD]

Well, since after all the crap you got here it's STILL someone else's fault, I say to heck with your wife. Go and have a good time.

That's a good way to resolve this ... the h*ll with her, just do what you want! Very responsible.

We should all conduct our lives this way, don't you think? Not just with our spouses, but with our kids, extended families, friends, co-workers, bosses. The h*ll with them all!!

Let's just all think of me, me, me!

Stephanie, you've posted doozies before, but this one takes the cake.

[Babeba]

Denise,

What can I say? I've been thinking about this thread for a couple of days, wondering if I should say anything, about what part of the topics brought up by many people here. In my mind, I see two different issues: the short-term issue of your trip to Vegas (which I really hope goes well and is enjoyable to you both), and the long-term issue of the mental health of you and your wife, the ticking time bomb that is your relationship.

I wish you all the best of luck with whatever you decide to do this weekend, but I really hope that you do what you feel is right in your heart and make the decision yourself whether or not to go. When you posted that if your wife 'acts out' and says that she forbids you to go, you won't go through with it... that really puts the onus on her to 'be the bad guy' in making that decision. What if she says to you, 'I would be much happier if you don't go, because it scares me to think of Denise out on the streets alone but I can't deal with being around you as her yet'? Or even just, 'I wish you wouldn't do this'? What would you do? Does it have to be specifically, 'I forbid you'? This seems to indicate to me that your relationship is more of a power struggle about who holds sway over the other one's actions than a partnership. I think that the decision to go should be up to you and YOUR conscience, not up to whether your wife expresses the unhappiness she has in a certain way that makes you feel as though you are giving this up because she is being horribly controlling and forbids you. Don't be passive in this decision. Be active and make it for yourself.


In the long term there are a lot of issues I think you know need to be dealt with. No one is winning in your relationship, and there is a lot of hurt and need for help, all ways around. No one is obligated to have their lives made a living hell by another person, and staying around the sort of situation you describe (verbal abuse, financial abuse) is enabling this treatment of you. It is also enabling your wife to continue in the self destructive behaviours you have described. Neither of you is being helped by this. It is possible to work through all of the issues that have been touched on in this thread and make your marriage better, but you each will have demons to face along the way and it may come about that it would be better for you to split in the long run. It may also come about that the two of you can fall back in love when you're ready.

In the meantime, there are two articles that I think you may need to read and see if it at all speaks to you:

The Martyr Victim Complex Described (http://www.yourlifecheckup.com/article.php?artid=65)

Overcoming the Role of Victim or Martyr (http://www.livestrong.com/article/14732-overcoming-the-role-of-victim-or-martyr/)


I'm not a professional, I don't know anything about you other than from this website so please don't be offended at me posting this - but superficially, your situation sounds like one which a person who falls into the role of a martyr could become stuck in. If this at all rings a bell with you (even if you don't think the label fits) it may help you think about things to go through some of the questions at the end of the second link.

Reine is a very intelligent and sweet person, and has been through a lot which has given her the wisdom of a person well beyond her years (I'm thinking like Methusaleh years, personally!) and I hope you can take her words to heart. There is no shame in you talking to al-anon to get help in helping your family, and helping yourself in such a situation. In fact, there is a lot of courage in taking this step and taking action.



Tara,

you posted in one of your posts about your wife coming at you drunkenly with a gun... this is a very serious issue, and I hope you know that! There are resources available for spouses who are being threatened in this manner, even though for men they are a little more difficult to find sometimes. If there is a distress call line in your municipality or state, they will be able to refer you to a social work team specializing in domestic violence or in men's health who can help you get out of that situation. If your wife is a clear danger to herself or others (which it sounds like she hits in both cases) a family courts counsellor or social worker can help set up a court order to have her mental health assessed and put her in observation.

I know there is a gut reaction to just take it - you're tough enough, right? - but what if next time it's not you she brandishes a gun at, but some random person at the door? What if she gets very angry at some customer service, and brings it to the store? What if, because you didn't do anything so you could tough it out - some other innocent bystander gets hurt, or your wife really DOES kill herself? There reaches a point where not swallowing pride and asking for help for a person not mentally capable of getting it for themselves is needlessly selfish... and most people in this situation are too wrapped up in it to realize that by not making that call for help it's hurting more than just them.



The other thing I want to say is this - someone had said that by now Denise's wife should know what she's thinking. I hate to say this, but NO ONE who is human is a mind reader, it doesn't matter HOW much time you spend together you still need to be clear in communicating with your partner. My parents have been married for almost 32 years, they still run into mis-communication issues. My grandparents were married for 59 years, and THEY had their fair share of times when they needed to stop and communicate better, too.

[Miranda-E]

That's a good way to resolve this ... the h*ll with her, just do what you want! Very responsible.

We should all conduct our lives this way, don't you think? Not just with our spouses, but with our kids, extended families, friends, co-workers, bosses. The h*ll with them all!!

Let's just all think of me, me, me!

Stephanie, you've posted doozies before, but this one takes the cake.

Sometimes you do just have to sever ties with people and walk away.

[Stephenie S]

That's a good way to resolve this ... the h*ll with her, just do what you want! Very responsible.

We should all conduct our lives this way, don't you think? Not just with our spouses, but with our kids, extended families, friends, co-workers, bosses. The h*ll with them all!!

Let's just all think of me, me, me!

Stephanie, you've posted doozies before, but this one takes the cake.

I know. I guess I'm just the forum's cranky old lady.

Really, I don't mean to be such a crank. Most of the time I'm really a nice person. It's just that I have so little patience with people who feel it's always someone else's fault, no matter what. I often post when I'm tired, and I should try to be more supportive. It's not my best quality by any means. That comment was not very constructive.

S

[ReineD]

^ OK. I guess I get cranky too sometimes. :hugs:

[ThiHi]

A painful read. I used to think others controlled my life too. I was miserable. I feel much better now.