Born too soon?

[Dawn cd]

This is a reflection on something jilleanne said in another thread. She remarked, "I wish I could have been born 75 years from now when society will be far more accepting." Does anyone else have those feelings? If you do, would you care to hazard a guess about the trajectory of crossdressing in the future? What would be the best environment for CDs and transgender people as a group?

[Miranda-E]

It really depends on how crossdressers alter the trajectory.
Who wants to wait 75 years?

[Karren H]

Doesn't it all depend on what women are wearing in 75 years?? Lol. If what ever they are wearing looks a lot like jeans then hell no!!

[drag n fly]

I would hope that all types of different behaviours would be more accepted in the future...assuming those behaviours are not destructive or harmful...I'd like to think we've progressed in that direction...Just keep religion out of it, and all should be well....smooches Jackie

[abigailf]

We would all be dressed like in the "Mark of Gideon" - I know some of you know the reference.

With my luck, cross dressing would be mainstream and I would be born straight (or whatever the term is for non-trans cuz I know it is not "normal").

[2B Natasha]

Let's assume that every member on this board and every other cross/trans was born 75 years from now. What do you think would be the reception to us? My guess. Just like it is now. Know why. That's won't be anybody around now to sow and grow the seeds of acceptance. So you get to wait 75 years to be right where you are now.

No thanks. I'll stay right here right now. To many people to heal through lies and deceit to leave now.

Cheers.

[kimdl93]

I don't know if the future will be far more accepting. I'm happy to be here, now, and enjoying the degree of acceptance that I've experienced.

[Eryn]

The problem is, the future cannot be predicted. 75 years from now we might be living under some fundamentalist code. The pendulum swings both ways.

I'll just enjoy what I can while I can.

[Adelina]

I turn 32 this year and even I think, what if I had been a child or teenager growing up today. The idea of transgender - maybe not crossdressing as much, in itself- is so much more acceptable now than it was then. Had it been today, I think I'd have had the gumption to really push to be myself instead of repressing it. I'd think parents and peers would have been a bit less intimidating as well.

[Stephanie47]

You have a crystal ball? Frankly, some of the people looking to run this country would just assume hang us up from a light pole by the genitals- the Inquisition comes to mind. With retrospect I wish I was young and a cross dresser NOW, rather than a child of the 1960's and repressed.

[Claire Cook]

You have a crystal ball? Frankly, some of the people looking to run this country would just assume hang us up from a light pole by the genitals- the Inquisition comes to mind. With retrospect I wish I was young and a cross dresser NOW, rather than a child of the 1960's and repressed.

As child of the 50's, all I can say is I'm glad it's now. The world has changed in many ways, mostly for the better. BTW, the only reference I can remember about a national politician referring to TG's was the Gover-nator's statement about "girlie-boys", but maybe even he has grown up a bit. (I'm sure there is lots I don't know about.)

[ArleneRaquel]

I'm glad to be around now. Seventy years from now the reactionary forces may be back in power. I'll settle for the current times, even thought the world situation concerns me.

[Gianna]

Things have changed so much since I was a kid that it is only a matter of time before the fine art of crossdressing becomes accepted and looked at with indifference. Just look at Ru Paul! I prefer to giggle with the excitement of dressing naughty and pretty and hopefully not being caught until I chose to.

[sissystephanie]

I have been on this earth for over 79 years now! Sorry, but I don't want to see what is available 75 years from now. I am quite happy with the way things are now! Yes, they have changed since I started CD'ing at age 6! But I think most of the changes were for the better! Those that weren't I just ignore!

[LeaP]

I might wish to be younger now in order to better take advantage of the atmosphere of (relative) acceptance we have right now, but I'm more concerned about oppression in the future. I'm not hopeful concerning additional freedoms. I see the political and rights progress of the last 20-30 years, but only in the West - and I also see a rising backlash and push to a new religion-based morality even here. World affairs are not stable, and that's never good news for any group that is perceived as being on the margins of society. Sorry for the pessimism, but that's how I assess the current state of affairs.

Lea

[Annaliese]

Here in Utah nothing going to change.

[Jennifer B]

Yes I absolutely would. Look back 75 years and you had segregation of races, imperialism and in the UK being homosexual would land you in prison. I would certainly believe that in 75 years from now, societies attitudes and human rights would have advanced a stage further from where they are today as well. I think crossdressing and being Trans Gender would certainly be more acceptable by then. It wasn't so very long ago that a hairy chested boxer Henry Cooper first advertised Brut aftershave on television. At the time it was considered by the majority, to be a bit strange for men to use "perfume" as it was viewed. The Nu-romantic era in the 80's saw Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet etc and a legion of fans wearing a trowel load of female make up products and hair metal such as Whitesnake and Poison saw macho blokes with bangs in there hair. Today it's not so fashionable, but for the first time cosmetic companies have realised that there is a whole new fashion market for the Metro sexual man and instead of female cosmetics we have Guyliner and exfoliating facial scrubs and skin cream. And male aftershave is advertised by slim bare chested oiled men with hairless legs, Henry Cooper would be shocked!

Now don't get me wrong that's not crossdressing. It's very different of course, but I do think that it shows a difference in attitudes that could lead in the future towards a much greater acceptance of crossdressing, via osmosis, as people become more used to the periphery of it becoming more noticeable in the mainstream. It becomes less of a culture shock and helps slowly break apart prejudice. There seems to be an ebb and flow to it, two steps forward and one back, but it's creeping in the right direction. So in that respect I'm hopeful.

[Barbara Ella]

While society may change 75 years from now, who knows how. Someone may invent a pill that "cures" the mental state of CD ing and we may all be forced to take it.

Seriously, after living through all the decisions/actions I have taken over my 65 years, and surviving the 60's, I would not want to have to go through them all over again. No telling how I would turn out, if I even survived them.

I survived, and am finally thriving in my new found life. I will not give it up.

Babes

[Cynthia Anne]

HEEL NO!!!! I can't aford the price of panties now! I hate to think what they'd be in seventyfive years!ha! Hugs!

[Allisa]

Well if the human race survives Dec-21-2012,or as I like to believe "the creators return",the technology they bring will eliminate the need for gender roles and androgyny will rule,no more need for reproduction on the physical level so no more "boy's" and "girls".What was that song?,In the year 2525?Well enough for now so Viva-la-Differance,and enjoy it while you can,Bye-Bye,Lisa.

[RenneB]

I was put here at this time for a reason... I think. I'm still trying to figure out the reason most days. Since I need to make the best of what I have with where I am, I put each day on the list of "this is the day I'll..." and then fill in the blank. Too many of our comrades have come and gone for us to wish for something more than just today...

But I still like the thread, but look to the past to see what our gparents though post 2000 would be like and we should be in flying cars with bots all over the place... Okay, the bots are here, but where's my flying car???

Renne.....

[Eryn]

...but where's my flying car???

And my vacation on the moon, and my rocket belt. My PINK rocket belt! :)

[Jeannie]

I would love to be able to stick around 75 to 100 years from now just to see how this all comes out.

[DebbieL]

My dad was born during the great depression, he was transgendered - about 75% female in terms of favorite activities. He had zero chance of ANY sort of transition, and was bullied as a kid, eventually fitting in quite nicely in high school and college - where women were thrilled that he wanted to actually know them rather than just have sex with them. Dad and I used to love the symphony, ballet, and watching figure skating. Mom was the one who loved to watch the Broncos - and the fun for us was watching mom watch the game. She was very animated and cute.

I was born in '55 and by the time Harry Benjamin's book came out - I was already 15 years old. Even then SRS was pretty crude and harsh. By the time she-male porn was available - in the 1980s, I was already in my late 20s and early 30s. I had my first conversations with another transgendered person on the internet in 1985 - which was we tried to come up for a term that would cover the whole spectrum from the occaisional cross-dresser to the pre-op transsexual - especially those who had the desire to be women, even if only for brief periods. There wasn't a word for it - and we came up with the word "Transgendered". We tried several others that didn't play as well, like gender-bender, want-to-be girl. MOTOS (Members of the OTHER Sex), "Tri-sexual" - none of those worked very well.

Finally, in 1990, I met a councilor who actually had EXPERIENCE with gender identity issues, and understood what I was going through as a transgendered person. He even referred me to someone who gave me transition counciling - until I reached the 120 stage (all but 40 hours of "at work" time in femme mode.

But even in 1992, not only was there no legal protection for gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders, but the courts could actually PUNISH you for being in ANY of those catagories. The family court judge could revoke your visitation, you could be harassed out of a job, you could be physically assaulted and the perpetrator would not get punished, and if you fought back, you could be charged with assault. A routine police stop for a broken tail light would turn into a 20 minute search for all known criminals with any form of cross-dressing MO, as well as any known drag-queens, cross-dressers, or transsexuals with criminal history, all based on verbal descriptions.

If you were born in the 1990s, you have many more different ways to get support, but even today, most health plans don't cover ANY transition programs. They don't cover hormones, facial electrolysis, and implants, and most still consider SRS to be "cosmetic surgery". Ironically, UNTREATED transgender issues are far more costly.

Today, when teens commit suicide, the police now investigate possible causes, including cyber-bullying, blackmail, being "outed" as homosexual or transsexual. In the past, police were lucky if the suicidal child left them a diary or personal journal. Today, police have records from facebook, blogs, social media forums, as well as SMS text history. What they are discovering is that a very large percentage of teen suicides are related to gender identity or gender preference issues or a combination of both. Often the condition is indicated early but the trigger events are things like being rejected by an actual love-interest or a potential love interest who freaks out.

Just today, my brother sent me a note, an e-mail, stating how uncomfortable he is with my "Debby" side (can't even spel it rite).

I'm 56 years old, so I can deal with it. I got a similar note, at 21 years old, from a fiance who broke off the engagement, and all other contact the morning after she figured out that I was at least a transvestite. That note sent me into multiple suicide attempts, all of which should have killed me, (taking combinations of drugs & alcohol, drinking a pint of brandy on Antabuse - which turns the alcohol into formaldahyde instead of urine. I even sat on the guard rail ready to do a back-flip into I-25 off Evans Avenue, yet stopped - because I was wearing my brother's watch, with the final grand attempt being 1/4 pound of ground glass and glass chips - which should have shredded my stomach and intestines. Somehow I survived anyway.

Until December 1974, I didn't even know there were other men who liked to dress like girls because they wanted to BE girls. But even then, the available information showed men with hairy legs, 5 O-clock shadows and bushy eyebrows. There were female impersonators, drag-queens, but many of them maintained a public face of saying they only dressed to entertain people and did NOT want to be girls.

In the very late 1970s, we had Sulka, who was the first adult film star to appear as both a pre-op and post-op transsexual - but she did not have a functional clitorus. About 5 years later, Shannon went through her transition on film, and described the experience of surgeries while only partially anesthetized as the doctor tried to give her a functional clitoris.

[Annaliese2010]

Oh I think future TG's will look back to these years and wish things were as Good. IMO this is a time of declination, denegration, dissipation. A down slide from an uptick that once was but no more. The Human Race contaminates by our sheer numbers life is cheap. Watch, you'll see. What once was assumed, will no longer be.

Civs rise n civs do fall. it's the weather, Heather, whaddaya think?! 6 bill mean anything? Oh my lord this world doth stink. Too many ppl like a disease. Poles a meltin! In fora beltin. Matter a time we all be yellin... 'Omg omg...what's happ nin, How?'. Geeze, Louise, guess science was right. Uh-oh, Owe! Off with the gown. Here comes the fright, it's time to Fight! Live or die...swallow thy Pride. Might is right...hey girls, whose tha guy?! Scramble thru shambles..puhLease lead me out! Take me fake me or I'll scream n shout! Heeelp Mr. Billllll. Oh noooo....

LOL

:heehee:

[noeleena]

Hi,

Born to soon ....no i was born at the right time tho with our background that was allmost not going to happen ,long story.

I know many say they wish they had been born earlyer 1947 soon enough many things have happened since then & i belive iv had it better in some ways as to being able to be who i am now , & looking ahead i may have 20 years to go .. for my self this is...... my time........& im more than happy with what i have, & being who i am now,

...noeleena...

[Foxglove]

I think it's impossible to say how things will go. Of course, we'd like to think that the opening up of society will continue--but in 75 years we have no idea what the world will even be like. The population, the habitability of the planet, etc. If things get tough, if people are more concerned about survival than anything else, they may well see people like us as a luxury that society cannot afford.

(I'm being optimistic, you understand. The pessimist says, "I think things right now are about as bad as they possibly could be." The optimist says, "Oh, no, they could get much worse.")

[Tina B.]

Well if the human race survives Dec-21-2012,or as I like to believe "the creators return",the technology they bring will eliminate the need for gender roles and androgyny will rule,no more need for reproduction on the physical level so no more "boy's" and "girls".What was that song?,In the year 2525?Well enough for now so Viva-la-Differance,and enjoy it while you can,Bye-Bye,Lisa.

Sounds like hell to me, I don't think I would like androgyny very much. Boy or girl was confusing enough, but no more boys and girls, why bother to wear clothes at all?
Tina B.

[StarrOfDelite]

You have a crystal ball? Frankly, some of the people looking to run this country would just assume hang us up from a light pole by the genitals- the Inquisition comes to mind. With retrospect I wish I was young and a cross dresser NOW, rather than a child of the 1960's and repressed.

I agree with you completely Stephanie. I just got through watching Rick Santorum being interviewed on CNN, and the idea that a person with his mindset might have a legitimate chance to be PotUS absolutely sickens me. There are plenty of people who want to turn the clock back to the time when all sexual activity but M/F vaginal intercourse was criminal, when it was normal to discriminate against "queers,homos,faggots,sissies and trannies," and contraception was illegal.

I wasn't alive then, but from what I've been told, even the 60's and 70's when we were growing up were comparatively liberal compared to the 30-s, 40's and 50's when it was considered to be the norm that a young man who admitted homosexuality could be expelled from college, for example.

But, the freedom which younger people take for granted can be lost in a moment. The internet has granted us to the ability to exchange information, and that can be taken away or criminalized in the blink of an eye, all it takes is a few more conservative judges on the Supreme Court, and a few more Senators and Representatives who were elected on platforms dedicated to restoring 'family values.'

I would hope that the trend of the past 25 years towards recognition of gender rights continues into the future, but nothing in the universe is ever strictly linear. Even light can bend.

[melaniecd34]

Whilst it would be nice to think that things in the future would be better and more accepting than right now, the reality is, we are here now and have to deal with the world of today rather than the world of tomorrow. My attitude is to make the most of now as we are not going to have a second chance in the future - don't let other people's attitudes shape what makes you happy.

[DanaR]

I'm kind of with Karren on this, woman's fashion has changed so much from when they wore dresses and skirts everyday. I couldn't imagine them wearing anything different than what they are wearing now.

[Jess Marie]

I honestly, as a political science major and hopefully to hold office someday, do not see this happening within a 75 year time period. It takes a long time for social movements to gain the necessary support from the public. It took African Americans well over 100 years to gain the right to vote and at a heavy cost as well. Women have been looked down upon in American society just as every other minority has, and took just as long to gain the right to vote. These social movements were around for a hundred years or so, though they started small in bars or someones house, the movements were strewn across America. These individual factions banded together and found a leader, example is Martin Luther King Jr. Even with a national figure, it took decades for the rights, and the acceptance of these rights, guaranteed by the government, are still being questioned by people of all descent. So with that being said, people are going to deny the social norms, which is now women and minorities gaining the right to vote. People are always going to deny the social equality of gays and lesbians, and sadly, the last to gain acceptance or something of the sort is going to be the crossdressing community. Crossdressing is not as popular as being gay, a woman, or non-caucasian. So therefore, I lead my conclusion that it will be atleast a hundred years before we get any sort of recognition as a movement. Then, slowly as it becomes more of a social norm, the generations following will grow less judgmental and things will calm down for the crossdressing community.

[ReineD]

I envision a world that will accept feminine men. We're already beginning to accept masculine women. Women are catching up with men and surely the tables will reverse, and men will be allowed to catch up with women? Once this happens, there will be no need to crossdress since everyone will freely express who they are.

As to transsexuals, the world is already changing for them. Parents are now allowing their children to determine their genders. I can't see this trend reversing.

The only way to continue this trajectory is to educate our young about gender and sexual variance.

[jillleanne]

Yes I absolutely would. Look back 75 years and you had segregation of races, imperialism and in the UK being homosexual would land you in prison. I would certainly believe that in 75 years from now, societies attitudes and human rights would have advanced a stage further from where they are today as well. I think crossdressing and being Trans Gender would certainly be more acceptable by then. It wasn't so very long ago that a hairy chested boxer Henry Cooper first advertised Brut aftershave on television. At the time it was considered by the majority, to be a bit strange for men to use "perfume" as it was viewed. The Nu-romantic era in the 80's saw Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet etc and a legion of fans wearing a trowel load of female make up products and hair metal such as Whitesnake and Poison saw macho blokes with bangs in there hair. Today it's not so fashionable, but for the first time cosmetic companies have realised that there is a whole new fashion market for the Metro sexual man and instead of female cosmetics we have Guyliner and exfoliating facial scrubs and skin cream. And male aftershave is advertised by slim bare chested oiled men with hairless legs, Henry Cooper would be shocked!

Now don't get me wrong that's not crossdressing. It's very different of course, but I do think that it shows a difference in attitudes that could lead in the future towards a much greater acceptance of crossdressing, via osmosis, as people become more used to the periphery of it becoming more noticeable in the mainstream. It becomes less of a culture shock and helps slowly break apart prejudice. There seems to be an ebb and flow to it, two steps forward and one back, but it's creeping in the right direction. So in that respect I'm hopeful.

Thank goodness for you Jennifer. There were moments there I wished I never said a word. lmao

[jillleanne]

I was put here at this time for a reason... I think. I'm still trying to figure out the reason most days. Since I need to make the best of what I have with where I am, I put each day on the list of "this is the day I'll..." and then fill in the blank. Too many of our comrades have come and gone for us to wish for something more than just today...

But I still like the thread, but look to the past to see what our gparents though post 2000 would be like and we should be in flying cars with bots all over the place... Okay, the bots are here, but where's my flying car???

Renne.....

I had a car that flew once..............once.

[jillleanne]

And my vacation on the moon, and my rocket belt. My PINK rocket belt! :)

You go girl!!!!!!!!! Move over, Jill's coming with you!!

[jillleanne]

I'm kind of with Karren on this, woman's fashion has changed so much from when they wore dresses and skirts everyday. I couldn't imagine them wearing anything different than what they are wearing now.

So you do not wish to fit in with regards to the current style at the time with the general femme populationthen? That would be like wearing a Victorian dress to work at the pizza shop today.

[jillleanne]

I honestly, as a political science major and hopefully to hold office someday, do not see this happening within a 75 year time period. It takes a long time for social movements to gain the necessary support from the public. It took African Americans well over 100 years to gain the right to vote and at a heavy cost as well. Women have been looked down upon in American society just as every other minority has, and took just as long to gain the right to vote. These social movements were around for a hundred years or so, though they started small in bars or someones house, the movements were strewn across America. These individual factions banded together and found a leader, example is Martin Luther King Jr. Even with a national figure, it took decades for the rights, and the acceptance of these rights, guaranteed by the government, are still being questioned by people of all descent. So with that being said, people are going to deny the social norms, which is now women and minorities gaining the right to vote. People are always going to deny the social equality of gays and lesbians, and sadly, the last to gain acceptance or something of the sort is going to be the crossdressing community. Crossdressing is not as popular as being gay, a woman, or non-caucasian. So therefore, I lead my conclusion that it will be atleast a hundred years before we get any sort of recognition as a movement. Then, slowly as it becomes more of a social norm, the generations following will grow less judgmental and things will calm down for the crossdressing community.

Your 'conclusion' or assumption, echoes my point. It it takes 200 years, so be it, I'm a very patient person.The '75' was not meant to be taken as a 'timeline' but rather a metaphor for the 'future'. Other things equal, in 75 years we will have progressed in all societies to some extent hopefully, based on historical events, in a positive manner, meaning, maybe, just maybe, the human race will lay down its hate, violence, bigotry, and fears towards others and pick up equality, love, compassion, and acceptance of others. If not for hope, what have we? Political leaders cannot stop the will of the people in any society regardless as evidenced in the past and present and will not change in the future.

[jillleanne]

I envision a world that will accept feminine men. We're already beginning to accept masculine women. Women are catching up with men and surely the tables will reverse, and men will be allowed to catch up with women? Once this happens, there will be no need to crossdress since everyone will freely express who they are.

As to transsexuals, the world is already changing for them. Parents are now allowing their children to determine their genders. I can't see this trend reversing.

The only way to continue this trajectory is to educate our young about gender and sexual variance.

.....................Amen...................