Once again, smacked in the face by our "comunity"

[Kali]

Now that I'm really moving forward with my life and trying to define myself as to wear on the TG spectrum I belong I have been trying to be more social. I went to my first small event last night and received a very nice welcome. It was a small crowd (about 10 total, including us) and a public venure, but I never felt uncomfortable and was probaly in the middle of the spectrum in terms of appearance and presentation.

there is a lot of activity on the Meetup site for TG groups in my general vicinity, so I have tried to sign up with those groups doing the most social and support activities. One of those groups, probbly the 2nd largest un the area, which is bsed about an hour from where I live but holds eventsless than 20 minutes from my home (which mkes them the closest events) rejected my request for membership with a terse "you don't meet our requirements."

Somehow I am unacceptable to a group that describes themself thusly: "We are a safe haven for Transgenders! Our members are fun loving and compassionate people. Join us for unconditional support and to establish lifetime friendships.

The membership of this group is strictly for Transgenders (TG's), CD's, significant others of a Transgendered member, and family or personal friends of a member."

I had been planning on attending a dinner that one of the organizers of this group is throwing locally to me next weekend (and promoting on a group I do belong to), and had been encouraged by girls I met last night who were insisting I should attend and the fact that at least two of the very few people who know about this part of me have attended in the past. But now I feel like my attendance would be unwelcome.

i know it's stupid, but that one line message rejecting me brought me to tears. And it is making me rethink my decision to do all this.

I sent them a message asking why I was rejected. Perhaps they wll have the courtesy to reply.

[LeaP]

I've re-read your posts several times looking for any hint of a reason and can't find one.

Perhaps someone simply doesn't like you and blackballed you? Who knows? Hopefully they will respond, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Perhaps you can find out through other contacts.

One question? Why do you say "once again"? Has this happened before?

Lea

[Kristy_K]

i know it's stupid, but that one line message rejecting me brought me to tears. And it is making me rethink my decision to do all this.

I sent them a message asking why I was rejected. Perhaps they wll have the courtesy to reply.

It isn't stupid to feel bad but maybe they will be nice and tell you why. I know I would have cry also.

Did you have to write something about yourself to join the group?

[Kali]

I've re-read your posts several times looking for any hint of a reason and can't find one.

Perhaps someone simply doesn't like you and blackballed you? Who knows? Hopefully they will respond, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Perhaps you can find out through other contacts.

One question? Why do you say "once again"? Has this happened before?

Lea

When I still had facial hair my wife emailed the organizer of an event that was a little further from home and asked if we could attend (with my having a beard). Rather than a simple or courteous response, or even just ignoring the email, the organizer of the "support" group basically told my wife that "circus freaks" were not welcomed. I wasn't surprised by the response (I have a low opinion of people in general), but the insulting tone and the attack on my wife in the response email was way over the top. I posted about it here.


It isn't stupid to feel bad but maybe they will be nice and tell you why. I know I would have cry also.

Did you have to write something about yourself to join the group?

yes, and I wrote a simple expanation that I was trying to find out where in the TG spectrum I belonged, included the required face picture, and told them tht socializing and makng friends in the community was important to me.

[Marleena]

Kali, I'm confused by their reply "you do not meet our requirements" is there requirements stated on their website or any stationary they hand out? Is it "invite only" by people already in the group????

[Kali]

Kali, I'm confused by their reply "you do not meet our requirements" is there requirements stated on their website or any stationary they hand out? Is it "invite only" by people already in the group????

No requirements other than filling out their form, providing a face picture, and expaining why you want to join. I quoted their membership requirements in my first post.

[Marleena]

No requirements other than filling out their form, providing a face picture, and expaining why you want to join. I quoted their membership requirements in my first post.

I would like to see their answer to you then! I would not be happy either based on "the open arms" policy.

[kimdl93]

Perhaps there has been some misunderstanding. I can't imagine TG feeling that you wouldn't fit their "requirements".

[Kali]

I got a couple of responses, the first from the person who is running local events; she didn't understand why I was rejected and said I would be welcome at her events.. She also followed up with the person who makes the membership decisions.

I jus got a message from that person. It was all a mistake and I should re-apply.

At least it was all resolved in a couple of hours (we'll see if they still let me join). Perhaps I was over-reacting, but it was certainly a dash of cold water to find that in my inbox this morning.

[LeaP]

A quick search show this is probably MATC in Allentown. There's nothing on their site I can see that's exclusionary. Pretty odd.

Lea

[Foxglove]

I got a couple of responses, the first from the person who is running local events; she didn't understand why I was rejected and said I would be welcome at her events.. She also followed up with the person who makes the membership decisions.

I jus got a message from that person. It was all a mistake and I should re-apply.

At least it was all resolved in a couple of hours (we'll see if they still let me join). Perhaps I was over-reacting, but it was certainly a dash of cold water to find that in my inbox this morning.

Much better news. Let's hope things go well now. And I wouldn't say that you over-reacted. Naturally you were hurt, and you brought that to this forum. No reason why you shouldn't. And you sent a message to the people in question asking about your rejection. Exactly the right thing to do. So I can't see how you over-reacted.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Jorja]

Did you reply to them "On second thought, please rescind my request for membership. You as a support group, do not meet my requirements of being fun loving and compassionate people. I do not need lifetime friendships with those that would call another transgender person a circus freak."

[Kali]

Did you reply to them "On second thought, please rescind my request for membership. You as a support group, do not meet my requirements of being fun loving and compassionate people. I do not need lifetime friendships with those that would call another transgender person a circus freak."

Please don't confuse the two incidents.

[JulieK1980]

When I still had facial hair my wife emailed the organizer of an event that was a little further from home and asked if we could attend (with my having a beard). Rather than a simple or courteous response, or even just ignoring the email, the organizer of the "support" group basically told my wife that "circus freaks" were not welcomed. I wasn't surprised by the response (I have a low opinion of people in general), but the insulting tone and the attack on my wife in the response email was way over the top. I posted about it here.

Wow. That just absolutely floors me! I'm glad this current incident was just a misunderstanding!

[Foxglove]

I agree. Given that we're asking for acceptance and understanding from the community at large, you'd think we'd give such things to each other.

[Cheryl T]

Unfortunately this doesn't surprise me.
I know some people who attended a meeting of a particular support group in Pa that was supposedly "open" (meaning cd,tg,ts) and the first greeting they received was a question... "What are you?". Basically it was to segregate those that were not TS into other sections...somewhat discriminatory and very uncalled for.
I was told by our group's president that I should not go there with my wife the first time as it could be disturbing to her. Seems with attitudes like this in our community we don't need outsiders to harass us, we do it quite well ourselves.

[sterling12]

Apparently there was a "Screw Up." Everything in Support Groups is done by Volunteers, and it happens! So, give them another chance, and I imagine you will also get an apology from the person who mistook you for someone else. (That would be my guess as to a reason)

In the past, The Facial Hair Problem might have been an issue for SOME Groups. Calling you a "Circus Freak" was tactless and thoughtless. Even among the best of Groups, you can run into an individual who will say cruel things. But, I wouldn't let it stand in my way! Overall, I am sure you will meet lots of folks, and have lots of fun. Sometimes we have to develop a Thicker Skin. I always try to remember that there have been numerous times when I should have "bitten my tongue." So, I would reckon I can't expect perfection from others.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Miranda-E]

yes, and I wrote a simple expanation that I was trying to find out where in the TG spectrum I belonged, included the required face picture,

the required face picture raises big flags to me as to what type or group it actually was.

[Cheryl T]

the required face picture raises big flags to me as to what type or group it actually was.

Many do this to verify that someone actually dresses and is not just voyeur. Also it confirms identity when you arrive.
We do need some security after all.

[kimdl93]

I got a couple of responses, the first from the person who is running local events; she didn't understand why I was rejected and said I would be welcome at her events.. She also followed up with the person who makes the membership decisions.

I jus got a message from that person. It was all a mistake and I should re-apply.

At least it was all resolved in a couple of hours (we'll see if they still let me join). Perhaps I was over-reacting, but it was certainly a dash of cold water to find that in my inbox this morning.

I can certainly understand your initial reaction. Glad you followed up and were accomodated!

[ReineD]

Apparently there was a "Screw Up." Everything in Support Groups is done by Volunteers, and it happens! So, give them another chance ...

This is true!! My SO belongs to a large TG support group that she attended for years. The members run the full spectrum, from beginning CDs to transitioned TSs and everyone else in between. The person who runs it is a lovely, fully transitioned woman (still married to her GG spouse) who welcomes everyone. She realizes that gender non-conforming people must start somewhere, and not everyone is ready nor has the knowledge to present fully as a female right off the bat. The group's purpose is to provide support and resources to everyone no matter where they're at. Almost everyone in the group is accommodating, but there are always one or two (TSs) who have issues with CDs whom they believe do this for fetish reasons. They can't see beyond their own situation and they engage in stereotypes (i.e., man with beard wearing a dress = fetishist). You may have just come across one of the people who has a chip on her shoulder who maybe doesn't realize that you don't plan on going out in public with them wearing a beard, and that for now you simply need to begin expressing your femininity with a group of people who understand the challenges you face in coming to terms with your gender.


I got a couple of responses, the first from the person who is running local events; she didn't understand why I was rejected and said I would be welcome at her events.. She also followed up with the person who makes the membership decisions.

I jus got a message from that person. It was all a mistake and I should re-apply.

I'm glad it's working out. Please don't color your perceptions of the entire group based on one snotty remark made by one person, who apparently has more issues than she may be willing to realize. Get to know the person who responded positively to you, get to know the other members, and you will see that it will be OK. :)

:hugs:

[vivianann]

I know what it is to be rejected by those in the trans community, I agree with ReineD, there are too many T girls who think the are better than the rest of us for some reason that they cuncoct. I get rejected for a few reason, such as, I dont wear short dresses, I am too mainstream, I am too conservative politically, and I let gg's get too handsy with me when dancing or out in public, and I am too out going when I am out in public.
I am sorry that your wife and you had to endure the rudeness from those that should know better.

[Stephanie47]

I've found that sometimes a person in a group does not represent the group as a whole. If a group advertises itself as all encompassing, then the group should up all encompassing and accepting. Of course, based on the nature of the sexuality involved I'd expect some screening process. I've seen applications requiring a referral from a current member. I've seen a screening committee interview required.

Years ago I went to a fraternal order for which I was fully qualified to join, and, was berated by four 'apes' at the bar. I never went back, and, the person who took me never went back either. That was over thirty-five years ago. I realized there was bias behavior by the 'apes,' and although not in authority, I did not want to associate with an organization that did not meet MY expectations and values.

One thing I've noticed in almost 65 years of living is those who are discriminated against also practice discrimination against other minority groups, sexual, religious, ethnically, politically or otherwise.

Hopefully, the one 'ape' will not be representative of the troop.

[Eryn]

Hmm, I've not heard of a face picture requirement. I have heard of a requirement to submit a dressed picture which I think is reasonable for a group that meets in public and expects its members to dress appropriately.

In this case, if everything has been straighted out I wonder why they are asking you to reapply? It would seem that they should accept and approve your first application.

I hope that this works out. When you get to know the people in the group you might find that one of the people on the "committee" might take their job too seriously and rejected you for a trivlal reason that anyone else might have overlooked. Such is the nature of volunteers.

[Niya W]

I run two meetup groups and would never dream of doing such a thing. I also know a lady that runs a meet up group and went to war with one of her admins over her silly reasons for denying some trans women to the group. It's group for trans women to meet GGs.

[Lorileah]

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. Groucho Marx. Although some say Mark Twain said it too.

I have been in that situation before and it still angers me. Years ago I tried to join a group called the "Vanity" club and was basically told I didn't look good enough. Guess they lived up to the vanity part. I can only offer you support here because from what you wrote (and as others have said) I don't see what criteria you did not meet. They should also look up the word "compassion". I think they must have misunderstood what it means.

[Foxglove]

One thing I've noticed in almost 65 years of living is those who are discriminated against also practice discrimination against other minority groups, sexual, religious, ethnically, politically or otherwise.


Sad, but true. I've seen this as well. There are some people looking to dish out what they've got from others. You'd think they'd learn, but not everybody does.

[PretzelGirl]

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. Groucho Marx.

Although some say Mark Twain said it too.

I would like to say it another way after this and your vanity stories. I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that doesn't want me.

[Eryn]

I have been in that situation before and it still angers me. Years ago I tried to join a group called the "Vanity" club and was basically told I didn't look good enough. Guess they lived up to the vanity part.

Being accepting and all-inclusive are noble goals, but can we all meet that ideal?

I belong to a non-gender-related club that had a severe problem. One of our members started out a bit "eccentric" and we all took it in stride. He showed up at club events for a couple of years and became more and more obnoxious with time. He was one of those people who would come up to you and start talking your ear off about a topic you didn't want to discuss. I usually thought "There but for the grace of [insert deity] go I" and tried to be tolerant until I could think of an excuse to get away. Eventually this fellow decided to bring some of his friends along to the meetings, and they were definitely birds of a feather. Where one guy could be tolerated, his friends' presence was changing the nature of the club enough so that some of the long-time members stopped coming to meetings. The tolerance of the group ended up damaging the group more than it helped the individual being tolerated.

Now, for a mainstream club this situation could be handled. Eventually the oddball member violated one of the club's major rules and he was told that he could no longer be a member. Luckily, he disappeared.

What if this had been a CDing club? Having been a member for a while the oddball would have had a chance to gather quite a lot of information about the other members that could be held over their heads if he were ejected. It could be a disaster to the organization as a whole to have to deal with such a member.

It is pretty obvious that TG organizations have a legitimate reason to screen prospective members fairly closely. Certainly they should be tolerant, but they should not be so tolerant that the goals of their organizations is compromised.

[Josie M]

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I know years ago I was part or Rennaisance, and they were a pretty accepting group (my girlfriend and future wife used to come with me as well sometimes). These days, I'm with a offshoot of another group. I wound up having to interview with one of the senior members first. This was just meeting for lunch (in drab)...no big deal. I can understand a screening process to protect the other members. I've heard some groups can be more exclusive than others and it's upsetting to hear they were so rude.

Glad to hear it ultimately worked out though. As others have said, probably just one person reacting the wrong way. Please let us know how the first meeting went :)

[GBJoker]

I've found that sometimes a person in a group does not represent the group as a whole.

Unfortunately, there is still the "First Meeting Syndrome."

To use a completely non-political and non-offensive example: Say I meet a true real life Jedi from Star Wars. Uses the Force, has the lightsaber and robes, everything. But... He's a Sith Lord. Demands slaves to do work, declares war on virtually my whole home planet, and seeks to eventually rule the galaxy. I'm going to believe all Jedi are this way.

I meet a second Jedi, this one has a blue lightsaber, and is very peaceful and caring and wants to help my home planet. Guess what I'm gonna think? The second one is clearly the exception to the rule.

Third Jedi, same as number two: A possible minority. Fourth? Definite minority. Tenth? Okay, maybe the sith Lord was the minority, or the exception to the true rule.

Do ya see my point though? The first meeting I have with a Jedi has set a precedent that requires a large number of "good" Jedi to reverse the image I have in my mind of what ALL Jedi are like.

This is why I still haven't joined any groups or communities. Imagine the first 30 transgenders you meet are Sith Lords.

[Shelly Preston]

No one likes to be rejected by any group. Hopefully it was a genuine misunderstanding and everything will go smoothly.

Good Luck for your first meeting.

Meeting in a public place can be difficult for some.

You have to consider the place where a group meets will have certain expectations on conduct and may even have a minimum of dress code. This can affect the group. If the venue is not happy with how an individual conducts themselves it could cause the whole group problems.

[Kate Simmons]

I wouldn't be a member of such a group. Forget them Hon, you don't need them or their "approval". Real friends will accept you without question. One reason I got away from groups and went out on my own. Not to mention that they tend to move too slow.

[Kaz]

The world is full of 'clubs'... who have a narrow definition of who they want as members... Golf clubs are classic examples...

And then there are support groups... and this is one!

Today.. I am a guy with a beard in a dress... sadly my beard does seem to grow regardless of admonishments to behave when dressed! I also look better as a guy with a bit of facial hair!

The rules for any 'club' are to comply with accepted norms... this also goes for most work situations, despite the legislation! You find out the norms by being invited - if not invited, you probably won't want to be there!

[jillleanne]

I still oversee my yahoo group aznd I have often rejected someone simply in error by pressing the wrong whatever. I then can only wait until they repsond again, if they do, to apologize and accept them, embarrassed as I am for doing so to them. So hopefully that's all it is. I would request a reason none the less and if that was all it was, forgiveness will go a long ways. Sometimes we are not all the brightest lights in the parking lot.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Lorileah,

Tell the Vanity Club to go to hell your beautiful.


Julia






Although some say Mark Twain said it too.

I have been in that situation before and it still angers me. Years ago I tried to join a group called the "Vanity" club and was basically told I didn't look good enough. Guess they lived up to the vanity part. I can only offer you support here because from what you wrote (and as others have said) I don't see what criteria you did not meet. They should also look up the word "compassion". I think they must have misunderstood what it means.